I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic). I didn't
locate any by Craftsman. From reading some reviews there appears to be
some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2" will be fine until I need
something larger. Any last second advise on this purchase?
Thanks,
Bill
woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>
>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>> that are drywall like.
>>>
>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>
>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>
>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>
>
>That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about you.
You've still shown no evidence, just assertion. What's your background
to make such an assertion?
On 1/7/2014 11:01 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>>> diameters?
>>>>
>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>
>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>
>>
>> Really, do you believe that?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
> use for 90% of the people.
>
> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
> that are drywall like.
>
> There is that better? ;-0
>
My concern was with using drywall screws for woodworking. I used dry
wall screws back in the early 80's and then discovered, for woodworking,
that they were an improvement over the cheesy screws you find at the
local BORG but lacked in strength and size for furniture building.
On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>
>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>
>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>
>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>
>>
>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>> you.
>>
>
>
> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
> dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
> the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
> screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
>
>
>
>
>
You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from drywall.
The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more screws are used for
drywall than furniture, so it is the technology from the drywall screw
that drove the other wood threaded types of fasteners... the threads
being much sharper , deeper, and less prone to splitting.
The old taper had the problem of splitting wood often. If you didn't
drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up with a split
from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw since the taper was
too wide because you drove it too deep.
I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
--
Jeff
"Bill" wrote:
>I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits
>(i.e. with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was
>looking for a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and
>plastic). I didn't locate any by Craftsman. From reading some
>reviews there appears to be some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2"
>will be fine until I need something larger. Any last second advise on
>this purchase?
------------------------------------------
W W Grainger or McMaster Carr.
Lew
"Markem" wrote:
> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
> they rust and break.
-----------------------------------------------------
SFWIW
Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
such as mockups.
Use S/S, coarse thread self tapping sheet metal screws for
fiberglass assemblies and furniture applications.
Since only a few sizes are req'd, buying 100 pc boxes is not
a problem and helps keep costs in line.
Fine thread dry wall screws stay on the shelf at Home depot.
Lew
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> SFWIW
>
> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
> such as mockups.
----------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread
> screw available? It's just going to be torn down again very
> quickly.
--------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
They are.
Check out 1-5/8", coarse thread pricing.
---------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Use S/S, coarse thread self tapping sheet metal screws for
>> fiberglass assemblies and furniture applications.
------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Huh - again. For furniture applications?
------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
It's not worth stocking both S/S for marine and non S/S fasteners
for furniture.
-----------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Since only a few sizes are req'd, buying 100 pc boxes is not
>> a problem and helps keep costs in line.
----------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Agreed.
-------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Fine thread dry wall screws stay on the shelf at Home depot.
-------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
> Really agreed!
-----------------------------------------------
Lew
On 1/7/2014 12:35 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/7/14, 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>
>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>
>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>
>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>
>>
>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>> you.
>>
>
> All of you just stop already.
>
> The guy meant "straight shank" screw. He said drywall screw but
> obviously was talking about straight vs. tapered and used a lousy example.
>
> And you, quit digging the whole deeper. Just admit you used poor wording
> when using drywall screw as an example of a straight shank screw.
> Because anyone who uses a drywall screw in woodworking is using very
> poor judgment. Drywall screws are for drywall and are way to brittle for
> woodworking.
>
>
LOL, thank you Mike. Exactly the point I was trying to clarify.
On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>
>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>> that are drywall like.
>>>
>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>
>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>
>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>
>
> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about you.
>
My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>>> diameters?
>>>>
>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>
>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>
>>
>> Really, do you believe that?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>use for 90% of the people.
>
>I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>that are drywall like.
>
>There is that better? ;-0
Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
assumptive "most of us" categeory.
On 1/7/2014 5:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush
>>>>>>>>>> fit
>>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked
>>>>>>> screws
>>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>>>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use
>>>>>> drywall
>>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>>>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
>>>> dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
>>>> the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
>>>> screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from drywall.
>>> The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more screws are used for
>>> drywall than furniture, so it is the technology from the drywall screw
>>> that drove the other wood threaded types of fasteners... the threads
>>> being much sharper , deeper, and less prone to splitting.
>>> The old taper had the problem of splitting wood often. If you didn't
>>> drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up with a split
>>> from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw since the taper was
>>> too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>>
>>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>>
>>
>>
>> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
>> that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
>> screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws you
>> changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what agree on,
>> although.....
>>
>> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in diameter
>> to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the point I was trying
>> to make.
>>
>>
>> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not around
>> in the 1800's.
>>
>> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
>> early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>>
>> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
>>
>
> So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
>
>
Not really, it's not the straight shank alone, it's the rolled threads
that made the straight shank really workable. it's got more strength and
is really the big deal.
But fine if you want to say I am a total idiot and didn't know what I
was referring to, I have no problem.
--
Jeff
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:21:17 -0500, Bill<[email protected]>
>>locate any by Craftsman. From reading some reviews there appears to be
>>some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2" will be fine until I need
>>something larger. Any last second advise on this purchase?
>
> I bought this one a few years back. Works very well.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=41012&cat=3,41306,41328
>
> Then, I bought this set so I could counter sink in tighter areas.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>
>
The single flute bits are the best. I have one similar and several
with 6 flutes and there is no comparison.
--
GW Ross
I'm as confused as a baby in a
topless bar.
On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>
>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>
>>>
>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>> use for 90% of the people.
>>
>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>> that are drywall like.
>>
>> There is that better? ;-0
>
> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>
> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>
That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about you.
--
Jeff
On 1/8/2014 12:17 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/7/14, 11:10 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> "Markem" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
>>>>> they rust and break.
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>> SFWIW
>>>>
>>>> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
>>>> such as mockups.
>>>
>>> Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread
>>> screw
>>> available? It's just going to be torn down again very quickly.
>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Because a cheap ass screw does not know the difference between something
>> that is or is not a mockup. If it strips, breaks, or what ever it is
>> still not worth the pennies saved compared to your valuable time.
>>
>
> I've RE-used the same high quality square drive self-tapping screws from
> McFeely's for years in dozens of mock-ups and jigs and other stuff. I
> probably stripped out and broke just as many cheap-ass screww and
> *drywall* before switching to high quality screws. I will never go back.
>
> Lowes and Home both now sell SPAX® screws which are right up there or
> better than McFeely's. Their moto is "Do it once. Do it right." and they
> are spot on with that.
>
>
I have use Spax Lag Screws, a little pricey but they are very well made.
They actually look like you are getting what you are paying for.
Regular lag screws are a crap shoot, will the head twist off or not.
On 1/7/2014 5:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 5:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a
>>>>>>>>>>>> flush fit
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time.
>>>>>>>>> While they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight
>>>>>>>>> shanked screws
>>>>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If
>>>>>>>> you'd limited your statement to "they won't work for me,
>>>>>>>> because I use drywall
>>>>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into
>>>>>>>> your assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>>>>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that
>>>>>>> about you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us
>>>>>> using dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us
>>>>>> don't use the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a
>>>>>> dry wall "type" screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I
>>>>>> was not so sure.
>>>>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from
>>>>> drywall. The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more
>>>>> screws are used for drywall than furniture, so it is the
>>>>> technology from the drywall screw that drove the other wood
>>>>> threaded types of fasteners... the threads being much sharper ,
>>>>> deeper, and less prone to splitting. The old taper had the problem of
>>>>> splitting wood often. If you
>>>>> didn't drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up
>>>>> with a split from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw
>>>>> since the taper was too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
>>>> that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
>>>> screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws
>>>> you changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what
>>>> agree on, although.....
>>>>
>>>> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in
>>>> diameter to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the
>>>> point I was trying to make.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not
>>>> around in the 1800's.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
>>>> early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>>>>
>>>> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Not really, it's not the straight shank alone, it's the rolled threads
>> that made the straight shank really workable. it's got more strength
>> and is really the big deal.
>>
>> But fine if you want to say I am a total idiot and didn't know what I
>> was referring to, I have no problem.
>
> Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many people
> taking exception to what Jeff said based on some idiosyncratic crap that
> never even mattered in the first place. Ferpetessake - the guy was just
> trying to make a point - not to write a dissertations that he'd have to
> defend. I got the point he was trying to make. Can't help but wonder why
> others didn't.
>
Relax Mike, I'm no taking it to heart. I have too think a skin for that.
Just trying to have fun with the guys that want to have a punching bag..
--
Jeff
On 1/7/2014 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Markem" wrote:
>>
>>> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
>>> they rust and break.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> SFWIW
>>
>> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
>> such as mockups.
>
> Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread screw
> available? It's just going to be torn down again very quickly.
>
>>
Because a cheap ass screw does not know the difference between something
that is or is not a mockup. If it strips, breaks, or what ever it is
still not worth the pennies saved compared to your valuable time.
On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>
>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>> diameters?
>>>
>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>
>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>> for the screw head.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>
>
> Really, do you believe that?
>
>
>
>
Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
use for 90% of the people.
I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
that are drywall like.
There is that better? ;-0
--
Jeff
On 1/7/2014 11:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 17:14:08 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> FWIW "I" was just trying to clarify, not prove you wrong.
>> Now, is "think" skin closer to thin or thick. ;~) Just playing with you.
>
> No, no. He "thinks" a thicker skin when he needs to protect himself.
> :)
>
Perhaps. '~)
I was not going after him so he had no reason to be on the defense, but
Scott OTOH....
Anyway, I in another life was in retail and upper management in the
automotive world. I learned real quick that you assumed nothing and
asked questions if the customer or employee was not crystal clear with
his or her comments, questions, etc.
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:26:24 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Gordon Shumway wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:02:18 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pat Barber wrote:
>>>> On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
>>>>> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
>>>>> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
>>>> Like these:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>>> Yes Pat, that's a set I would like to get. The web site indicates they
>>> are sold out, but I will look for them at The Woodworking Shows in 2 weeks.
>>>
>>> Bill
>> I'm curious why one would want a set of these when a single bit,
>> similar to the one others have recommended, could do the job?
>
>Because they could help create a cylindrically-shaped hole, if desired
>(perhaps for use with a "plug"), rather than just a conically-shaped hole.
>
>Bill
But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
diameters?
On 1/7/2014 5:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 5:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 5:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flush fit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time.
>>>>>>>>>> While they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight
>>>>>>>>>> shanked screws
>>>>>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If
>>>>>>>>> you'd limited your statement to "they won't work for me,
>>>>>>>>> because I use drywall
>>>>>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into
>>>>>>>>> your assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>>>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>>>>>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>>>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that
>>>>>>>> about you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us
>>>>>>> using dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us
>>>>>>> don't use the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a
>>>>>>> dry wall "type" screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I
>>>>>>> was not so sure.
>>>>>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from
>>>>>> drywall. The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more
>>>>>> screws are used for drywall than furniture, so it is the
>>>>>> technology from the drywall screw that drove the other wood
>>>>>> threaded types of fasteners... the threads being much sharper ,
>>>>>> deeper, and less prone to splitting. The old taper had the problem of
>>>>>> splitting wood often. If you
>>>>>> didn't drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up
>>>>>> with a split from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw
>>>>>> since the taper was too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
>>>>> that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
>>>>> screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws
>>>>> you changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what
>>>>> agree on, although.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in
>>>>> diameter to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the
>>>>> point I was trying to make.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not
>>>>> around in the 1800's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
>>>>> early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>>>>>
>>>>> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not really, it's not the straight shank alone, it's the rolled threads
>>> that made the straight shank really workable. it's got more strength
>>> and is really the big deal.
>>>
>>> But fine if you want to say I am a total idiot and didn't know what I
>>> was referring to, I have no problem.
>>
>> Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many people
>> taking exception to what Jeff said based on some idiosyncratic crap that
>> never even mattered in the first place. Ferpetessake - the guy was just
>> trying to make a point - not to write a dissertations that he'd have to
>> defend. I got the point he was trying to make. Can't help but wonder
>> why
>> others didn't.
>>
> Relax Mike, I'm no taking it to heart. I have too think a skin for that.
> Just trying to have fun with the guys that want to have a punching bag..
>
>
FWIW "I" was just trying to clarify, not prove you wrong.
Now, is "think" skin closer to thin or thick. ;~) Just playing with you.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:21:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> locate any by Craftsman. From reading some reviews there appears to be
>> some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2" will be fine until I need
>> something larger. Any last second advise on this purchase?
> I bought this one a few years back. Works very well.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=41012&cat=3,41306,41328
>
> Then, I bought this set so I could counter sink in tighter areas.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>
>
Thank you very much. That is helpful.
Bill
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:27:57 -0500, none wrote:
>
> I bought this one a few years back. Works very well.
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=41012&cat=3,41306,41328
That'a the one I use the most. If I've only got one or two holes to do,
I've got a similar but smaller one that I keep mounted in an antique
eggbeater drill.
G. Ross wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:21:17 -0500, Bill<[email protected]>
>>> locate any by Craftsman. From reading some reviews there appears to be
>>> some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2" will be fine until I need
>>> something larger. Any last second advise on this purchase?
>>
>> I bought this one a few years back. Works very well.
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=41012&cat=3,41306,41328
>>
>> Then, I bought this set so I could counter sink in tighter areas.
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>>
>>
> The single flute bits are the best. I have one similar and several
> with 6 flutes and there is no comparison.
>
I was wondering about that detail. Thank you for sharing your
experience. Also thank you to the others that provided me leads to
other bits (I saved them for present and future reference!)
Bill
On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
Like these:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
Pat Barber wrote:
> On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
>> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
>> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
>
> Like these:
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
Yes Pat, that's a set I would like to get. The web site indicates they
are sold out, but I will look for them at The Woodworking Shows in 2 weeks.
Bill
Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:02:18 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Pat Barber wrote:
>>> On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
>>>> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
>>>> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
>>> Like these:
>>>
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>> Yes Pat, that's a set I would like to get. The web site indicates they
>> are sold out, but I will look for them at The Woodworking Shows in 2 weeks.
>>
>> Bill
> I'm curious why one would want a set of these when a single bit,
> similar to the one others have recommended, could do the job?
Because they could help create a cylindrically-shaped hole, if desired
(perhaps for use with a "plug"), rather than just a conically-shaped hole.
Bill
Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:26:24 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>> On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:02:18 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>> On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
>>>>>> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
>>>>>> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
>>>>> Like these:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>>>> Yes Pat, that's a set I would like to get. The web site indicates they
>>>> are sold out, but I will look for them at The Woodworking Shows in 2 weeks.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>> I'm curious why one would want a set of these when a single bit,
>>> similar to the one others have recommended, could do the job?
>> Because they could help create a cylindrically-shaped hole, if desired
>> (perhaps for use with a "plug"), rather than just a conically-shaped hole.
>>
>> Bill
> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
> diameters?
Gordon, You don't even have to plug the holes if you don't to. I was
just illustrating how they are two *different* tools (you asked, why not
just buy one?).
Bill
On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
> diameters?
The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
you would need these for plugs:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
for the screw head.
On 1/7/14, 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>
>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>> that are drywall like.
>>>
>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>
>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>
>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>
>
> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about you.
>
All of you just stop already.
The guy meant "straight shank" screw. He said drywall screw but
obviously was talking about straight vs. tapered and used a lousy example.
And you, quit digging the whole deeper. Just admit you used poor wording
when using drywall screw as an example of a straight shank screw.
Because anyone who uses a drywall screw in woodworking is using very
poor judgment. Drywall screws are for drywall and are way to brittle for
woodworking.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Pat Barber wrote:
> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>
>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>> diameters?
>
> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
> you would need these for plugs:
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>
> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
> for the screw head.
>
>
>
Thank you! This thread has suggested a range of tools and possibilities
with counter sink bits. I found it really interesting.
Bill
Scott Lurndal wrote:
> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>> different diameters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush
>>>>>>> fit for the screw head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>> screws in use for 90% of the people.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time.
>>>> While they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight
>>>> shanked screws that are drywall like.
>>>>
>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>
>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use
>>> drywall screws instead of wood screws", there would be no
>>> complaints.
>>>
>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>
>>
>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that
>> about you.
>
> You've still shown no evidence, just assertion. What's your
> background to make such an assertion?
Oh... Good God... Really, Scott?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked
>>>>>> screws
>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use
>>>>> drywall
>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
>>> dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
>>> the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
>>> screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from drywall.
>> The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more screws are used for
>> drywall than furniture, so it is the technology from the drywall screw
>> that drove the other wood threaded types of fasteners... the threads
>> being much sharper , deeper, and less prone to splitting.
>> The old taper had the problem of splitting wood often. If you didn't
>> drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up with a split
>> from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw since the taper was
>> too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>
>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>
>
>
> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
> that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
> screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws you
> changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what agree on,
> although.....
>
> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in diameter
> to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the point I was trying
> to make.
>
>
> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not around
> in the 1800's.
>
> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
> early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>
> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
>
So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/7/14, 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>
>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use
>>>> drywall
>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>
>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>>> you.
>>>
>>
>>
>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
>> dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
>> the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
>> screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from drywall.
> The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more screws are used for
> drywall than furniture, so it is the technology from the drywall screw
> that drove the other wood threaded types of fasteners... the threads
> being much sharper , deeper, and less prone to splitting.
> The old taper had the problem of splitting wood often. If you didn't
> drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up with a split
> from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw since the taper was
> too wide because you drove it too deep.
>
> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>
I tried to help you out of that hole, but you kept digging.
Want another shovel? :-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 5:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover
>>>>>>>>>>>> the different
>>>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a
>>>>>>>>>>> flush fit
>>>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time.
>>>>>>>> While they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight
>>>>>>>> shanked screws
>>>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If
>>>>>>> you'd limited your statement to "they won't work for me,
>>>>>>> because I use drywall
>>>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into
>>>>>>> your assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>>>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that
>>>>>> about you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us
>>>>> using dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us
>>>>> don't use the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a
>>>>> dry wall "type" screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I
>>>>> was not so sure.
>>>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from
>>>> drywall. The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more
>>>> screws are used for drywall than furniture, so it is the
>>>> technology from the drywall screw that drove the other wood
>>>> threaded types of fasteners... the threads being much sharper ,
>>>> deeper, and less prone to splitting. The old taper had the problem of
>>>> splitting wood often. If you
>>>> didn't drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up
>>>> with a split from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw
>>>> since the taper was too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>>>
>>>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
>>> that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
>>> screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws
>>> you changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what
>>> agree on, although.....
>>>
>>> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in
>>> diameter to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the
>>> point I was trying to make.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not
>>> around in the 1800's.
>>>
>>> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
>>> early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>>>
>>> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
>>>
>>
>> So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
>>
>>
> Not really, it's not the straight shank alone, it's the rolled threads
> that made the straight shank really workable. it's got more strength
> and is really the big deal.
>
> But fine if you want to say I am a total idiot and didn't know what I
> was referring to, I have no problem.
Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many people
taking exception to what Jeff said based on some idiosyncratic crap that
never even mattered in the first place. Ferpetessake - the guy was just
trying to make a point - not to write a dissertations that he'd have to
defend. I got the point he was trying to make. Can't help but wonder why
others didn't.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many people
> taking exception to what Jeff said based on some idiosyncratic crap
> that never even mattered in the first place. Ferpetessake - the guy
> was just trying to make a point - not to write a dissertations that
> he'd have to defend. I got the point he was trying to make. Can't help
> but wonder why others didn't.
The thread went great except for the shift into drywall screws--I mean
non-tapered screws! Maybe create a separate drywall screw thread? ; )
Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many people
>> taking exception to what Jeff said based on some idiosyncratic crap
>> that never even mattered in the first place. Ferpetessake - the guy
>> was just trying to make a point - not to write a dissertations that
>> he'd have to defend. I got the point he was trying to make. Can't
>> help but wonder why others didn't.
>
>
> The thread went great except for the shift into drywall screws--I mean
> non-tapered screws! Maybe create a separate drywall screw thread? ; )
Yes - you are correct in that. I guess I got focused on the minutia that
started flying around when the content turned to the discussion on
screws/threads/whateverelse. Not that I've ever been caught up in that kind
of thing...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 5:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 5:40 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 5:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/14, 3:11 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flush fit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>>>>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood
>>>>>>>>>>> screws in
>>>>>>>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the
>>>>>>>>>>> time. While they don't have to be drywall screws, they are
>>>>>>>>>>> straight shanked screws
>>>>>>>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If
>>>>>>>>>> you'd limited your statement to "they won't work for me,
>>>>>>>>>> because I use drywall
>>>>>>>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall
>>>>>>>>>> into your assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>>>>>>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF
>>>>>>>>> SCREW.. STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>>>>>>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew
>>>>>>>>> that about you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of
>>>>>>>> us using dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most
>>>>>>>> of us don't use the tapered wood screw but until you later
>>>>>>>> clarified a dry wall "type" screw and referring to the shape
>>>>>>>> of the screw, I was not so sure.
>>>>>>> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from
>>>>>>> drywall. The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more
>>>>>>> screws are used for drywall than furniture, so it is the
>>>>>>> technology from the drywall screw that drove the other wood
>>>>>>> threaded types of fasteners... the threads being much sharper ,
>>>>>>> deeper, and less prone to splitting. The old taper had the
>>>>>>> problem of splitting wood often. If you
>>>>>>> didn't drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound
>>>>>>> up with a split from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a
>>>>>>> screw since the taper was too wide because you drove it too deep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention
>>>>>> screws that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned
>>>>>> specifically drywall screws. After I took exception that most of
>>>>>> us use drywall screws you changed your comment to dry wall
>>>>>> "like". That i some what agree on, although.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in
>>>>>> diameter to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the
>>>>>> point I was trying to make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not
>>>>>> around in the 1800's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were
>>>>>> patented as early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from
>>>>>> drywall.
>>>>>
>>>>> So correct.... but he kept digging anyway. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Not really, it's not the straight shank alone, it's the rolled
>>>> threads that made the straight shank really workable. it's got
>>>> more strength and is really the big deal.
>>>>
>>>> But fine if you want to say I am a total idiot and didn't know
>>>> what I was referring to, I have no problem.
>>>
>>> Oye! This thread didn't even get off to a good start. Too many
>>> people taking exception to what Jeff said based on some
>>> idiosyncratic crap that never even mattered in the first place.
>>> Ferpetessake - the guy was just trying to make a point - not to
>>> write a dissertations that he'd have to defend. I got the point he
>>> was trying to make. Can't help but wonder why
>>> others didn't.
>>>
>> Relax Mike, I'm no taking it to heart. I have too think a skin for
>> that. Just trying to have fun with the guys that want to have a
>> punching bag..
> FWIW "I" was just trying to clarify, not prove you wrong.
>
> Now, is "think" skin closer to thin or thick. ;~) Just playing with
> you.
Oh come on Leon - everyone knows that "think" skin is an esoteric term
meaning...
Oh hell - what does it really mean?
I quit - I'm going back out to the garage to work on my outfeed
table...Somebody wake me up in the morning...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Markem" wrote:
>
>> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
>> they rust and break.
> -----------------------------------------------------
> SFWIW
>
> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
> such as mockups.
Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread screw
available? It's just going to be torn down again very quickly.
>
> Use S/S, coarse thread self tapping sheet metal screws for
> fiberglass assemblies and furniture applications.
Huh - again. For furniture applications?
>
> Since only a few sizes are req'd, buying 100 pc boxes is not
> a problem and helps keep costs in line.
Agreed.
>
> Fine thread dry wall screws stay on the shelf at Home depot.
>
Really agreed!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 1/7/14, 11:10 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> "Markem" wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
>>>> they rust and break.
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>> SFWIW
>>>
>>> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
>>> such as mockups.
>>
>> Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread
>> screw
>> available? It's just going to be torn down again very quickly.
>>
>>>
>
> Because a cheap ass screw does not know the difference between something
> that is or is not a mockup. If it strips, breaks, or what ever it is
> still not worth the pennies saved compared to your valuable time.
>
I've RE-used the same high quality square drive self-tapping screws from
McFeely's for years in dozens of mock-ups and jigs and other stuff. I
probably stripped out and broke just as many cheap-ass screww and
*drywall* before switching to high quality screws. I will never go back.
Lowes and Home both now sell SPAX® screws which are right up there or
better than McFeely's. Their moto is "Do it once. Do it right." and they
are spot on with that.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/14, 9:33 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/8/2014 12:17 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> Because a cheap ass screw does not know the difference between something
>>> that is or is not a mockup. If it strips, breaks, or what ever it is
>>> still not worth the pennies saved compared to your valuable time.
>>>
>>
>> I've RE-used the same high quality square drive self-tapping screws from
>> McFeely's for years in dozens of mock-ups and jigs and other stuff. I
>> probably stripped out and broke just as many cheap-ass screww and
>> *drywall* before switching to high quality screws. I will never go back.
>>
>> Lowes and Home both now sell SPAX® screws which are right up there or
>> better than McFeely's. Their moto is "Do it once. Do it right." and they
>> are spot on with that.
>>
>>
>
>
> I have use Spax Lag Screws, a little pricey but they are very well made.
> They actually look like you are getting what you are paying for.
> Regular lag screws are a crap shoot, will the head twist off or not.
I refuse to use those horrible, cheap, galvanized lags sold in the bins,
anymore. Yes they are cheap, but as you point out, you never know when
the head will pop off. I would never instal one without some wax on the
threads. It seems like if you don't get the drilled hole just perfect,
they either snap or strip out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:21:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>locate any by Craftsman. From reading some reviews there appears to be
>some "junk" out there. I suppose 1/2" will be fine until I need
>something larger. Any last second advise on this purchase?
I bought this one a few years back. Works very well.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=41012&cat=3,41306,41328
Then, I bought this set so I could counter sink in tighter areas.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
On 1/7/2014 11:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Markem" wrote:
>>
>>> I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
>>> they rust and break.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> SFWIW
>>
>> Use coarse thread deck screws for temporary structures
>> such as mockups.
>
> Huh? If it is just a mockup, why not use the cheapest coarse thread screw
> available? It's just going to be torn down again very quickly.
>
>>
>> Use S/S, coarse thread self tapping sheet metal screws for
>> fiberglass assemblies and furniture applications.
>
> Huh - again. For furniture applications?
>
>>
>> Since only a few sizes are req'd, buying 100 pc boxes is not
>> a problem and helps keep costs in line.
>
> Agreed.
>
>>
>> Fine thread dry wall screws stay on the shelf at Home depot.
>>
>
> Really agreed!
>
Not really. When I used steel studs for some construction, I used the
self drilling fine threads for the steel. That's what they are meant for
Steel studs and not wood.
--
Jeff
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 10:46:28 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>
>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>> diameters?
>>>
>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>
>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>> for the screw head.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>
>
>Really, do you believe that?
>
>
>
I use drywall screws for drywall, but wood no I do not them use as
they rust and break.
Mark
On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>
>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>> diameters?
>
> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
> you would need these for plugs:
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>
> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
> for the screw head.
>
>
>
Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
Most of us use dry wall screws today.
For those a straight bit is required, not a tapered.
I have a set of both, tapered and straight.
I rarely use wood screws anymore, I do when it is necessary, or more
accurate.
Take a look at the snappy brand.
http://www.snappytools.com/products/csink.asp
--
Jeff
On 1/7/2014 1:51 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 2:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/7/2014 11:39 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>>
>>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use
>>>> drywall
>>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>>
>>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about
>>> you.
>>>
>>
>>
>> My biggest question was with your original comment of most of us using
>> dry wall screws. I'm not doubting that probably most of us don't use
>> the tapered wood screw but until you later clarified a dry wall "type"
>> screw and referring to the shape of the screw, I was not so sure.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You have to realize that our straight shank screws came from drywall.
> The screws for furniture were stil tapered. Way more screws are used for
> drywall than furniture, so it is the technology from the drywall screw
> that drove the other wood threaded types of fasteners... the threads
> being much sharper , deeper, and less prone to splitting.
> The old taper had the problem of splitting wood often. If you didn't
> drill with a tapered bit to the correct depth you wound up with a split
> from too short a pilot hole, or too loose a screw since the taper was
> too wide because you drove it too deep.
>
> I still occasionally use a tapered screw, but I prefer not to.
>
OK, you are missing my point. You did not originally mention screws
that resembled dry wall screws, you mentioned specifically drywall
screws. After I took exception that most of us use drywall screws you
changed your comment to dry wall "like". That i some what agree on,
although.....
Dry wall screws specifically are much too brittle and small in diameter
to be acceptable for furniture building. This is the point I was trying
to make.
I am going to assume dry wall and or the drywall screws were not around
in the 1800's.
Having said that straight shank gimlet point screws were patented as
early as 1846 by the Eagle Screw Company.
So perhaps today's straight shank screws did not come from drywall.
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:02:18 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Pat Barber wrote:
>> On 1/2/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> I already have a couple of those Craftsman combocounter sink bits (i.e.
>>> with a drill bit) that came with a drill bit set, but I was looking for
>>> a decent counter sink bit by itself, for wood (and plastic).
>>
>> Like these:
>>
>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70967&cat=1,180,42240,42281
>
>Yes Pat, that's a set I would like to get. The web site indicates they
>are sold out, but I will look for them at The Woodworking Shows in 2 weeks.
>
>Bill
I'm curious why one would want a set of these when a single bit,
similar to the one others have recommended, could do the job?
On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>
>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>> diameters?
>>
>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>> you would need these for plugs:
>>
>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>
>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>> for the screw head.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
Really, do you believe that?
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:00:01 -0500, woodchucker <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Relax Mike, I'm no <t> taking it to heart. I have too thi <c> k a skin for that.
>Just trying to have fun with the guys that want to have a punching bag..
Jeff any revisions you want to put up beyond these?
;)
Mark
On 1/7/2014 12:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 1/7/2014 12:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On 1/7/2014 11:46 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/7/2014 9:58 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/7/2014 10:51 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/6/2014 5:15 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But wouldn't that require multiple plug cutters to cover the different
>>>>>>>> diameters?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Lee Valley counter sinks are not designed for plugs,
>>>>>>> you would need these for plugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32334&cat=1,180,42240
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Often times, the hole doesn't really need a plug, just a flush fit
>>>>>>> for the screw head.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are for wood screws, not drywall screws.
>>>>>> Most of us use dry wall screws today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, do you believe that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do. I said most. I didn't say all.
>>>> I think if you took a survey you would not find tapered wood screws in
>>>> use for 90% of the people.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find DRY WALL (LIKE) screws most of the time. While
>>>> they don't have to be drywall screws, they are straight shanked screws
>>>> that are drywall like.
>>>>
>>>> There is that better? ;-0
>>>
>>> Not really; you've expressed nothing but personal opinion. If you'd
>>> limited your statement to "they won't work for me, because I use drywall
>>> screws instead of wood screws", there would be no complaints.
>>>
>>> As I use wood screws, I (and apparently Leon), don't fall into your
>>> assumptive "most of us" categeory.
>>>
>>
>> That's correct. MOST OF US is NOT ALL OF US!!
>> But I'm pretty sure MOST OF US DO USE A DRY WALL TYPE OF SCREW..
>> STRAIGHT SHANKED OVER TAPERED.
>> Since you don't, you're not most of us, and I already knew that about you.
>
> You've still shown no evidence, just assertion. What's your background
> to make such an assertion?
>
Well you got me there Scott. I just pulled it out of my ass.
--
Jeff