On Dec 7, 3:43=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> I "grok" that, and submit my apologies if my words offended anyone. =A0Th=
at
> was certainly not the intent.
Han, I might get a bit twitchy these days about the good old USA. I
am comfortable being the "ugly American" as our last few rounds of
leadership have left little to the world's imagination about how
clueless we can be.
We are a big country; we get a lot of things right, and a lot wrong,
too. But there is always a constant buzz of criticism these days, no
matter who is in office, what political stripe they wear, or what
good deeds they might do. What hurts even more is that none of the
jackasses in any position of power represent anyone I know, so that is
a constant add to my frustration.
> And, Robert, I honor them today and every day as well. =A0I just didn't
> hang out my flag today as I did on Veterans Day.
I am sure you do. I hope I didn't come off too badly as you are one
of the gentlemen of this group. Maybe I should have stopped at that
last cup of Joe before posting... :^)
Robert
in 1514620 20111207 080333 "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Least we not forget.
>
>Lew
huh? did you mean "lest we forget"?
[email protected] wrote in news:i15vd79au2a3ui84akgob046b48c8pg1ac@
4ax.com:
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 08:16:09 -0500, knuttle
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 12/7/2011 3:03 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Least we not forget.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>OR let some in the US rewrite history
>
> Or as phrased in "1984"
> "correct history"
History is for the winners to write.
FWIW, before Pearl Harbor, there were other surprise wars. Since I'm
originally Dutch, this example. Although the Dutch were preparing to
defend themselves at traditional defensive settings, the May 10, 1940
attacks were a surprise, not preceded by a declaration of war by Germany.
After 5 days of battle near my home town and elsewhere, and the aerial
destruction of the center of Rotterdam, the Dutch were forced to
surrender. A somewhat smaller scale of the attack by the Japanese on
Pearl Harbor, and a similar defeat of insufficiently prepared and/or
equipped defenders.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:a7321dff-cf7d-4947-9b49-0bbf300684ef@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 7, 12:47 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> History is for the winners to write.
>>
>> FWIW, before Pearl Harbor, there were other surprise wars. Since I'm
>> originally Dutch, this example. Although the Dutch were preparing to
>> defend themselves at traditional defensive settings, the May 10, 1940
>> attacks were a surprise, not preceded by a declaration of war by
>> Germany. After 5 days of battle near my home town and elsewhere, and
>> the aerial destruction of the center of Rotterdam, the Dutch were
>> forced to surrender. A somewhat smaller scale of the attack by the
>> Japanese on Pearl Harbor, and a similar defeat of insufficiently
>> prepared and/or equipped defenders.
>
> All true, but his post was about a unique American experience, tied
> directly to this day. It wasn't about the past injustices around the
> world, nor did it downplay any others. Unlike European history,
> Americans don't have many, many centuries of conquest, war and
> butchery on our own soil. For those that remember the attack on this
> anniversary, and for those that are related or know those that were
> involved in some way, and for those that sacrificed because of the
> events of December 7, 1941, we honor this day.
>
> And with all due respect to you for the gentleman that you are
> (sincerely, no kidding around), this would be the same as you starting
> a thread on the invasion of Rotterdam and me posting
>
> "hey - that's not an isolated incident. Even though it's May 10th and
> special to you guys, you also need to remember Pearl Harbor here in
> the USA when you talk about the anniversary of the destruction of
> Rotterdam."
>
> In some ways we do little to honor our vets and military in the USA.
> This is one of the days we do.
>
> Robert
Sorry, there was absolutely no intention to not pay homage to those who
perished and to all the brave men and women who fought that day and all
days following. Please note that my gratitude to all those who fought
fascism is extreme. After all, if the US and its allies wouldn't have
defeated Germany, I wouldn't be around now, and even more of my family
would have perished in the camps.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:a7321dff-cf7d-4947-9b49-0bbf300684ef@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 7, 12:47 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> History is for the winners to write.
>>
>> FWIW, before Pearl Harbor, there were other surprise wars. Since I'm
>> originally Dutch, this example. Although the Dutch were preparing to
>> defend themselves at traditional defensive settings, the May 10, 1940
>> attacks were a surprise, not preceded by a declaration of war by
>> Germany. After 5 days of battle near my home town and elsewhere, and
>> the aerial destruction of the center of Rotterdam, the Dutch were
>> forced to surrender. A somewhat smaller scale of the attack by the
>> Japanese on Pearl Harbor, and a similar defeat of insufficiently
>> prepared and/or equipped defenders.
>
> All true, but his post was about a unique American experience, tied
> directly to this day. It wasn't about the past injustices around the
> world, nor did it downplay any others. Unlike European history,
> Americans don't have many, many centuries of conquest, war and
> butchery on our own soil. For those that remember the attack on this
> anniversary, and for those that are related or know those that were
> involved in some way, and for those that sacrificed because of the
> events of December 7, 1941, we honor this day.
I do honor this day as well, and I should point out that there has been
alot of savage wars fought right here in the US. The civil war was
nothing but brutal for those who fought in it, and the wars against
others on this continent were also less than gentle! I just wanted to
point out that a surprise attack was really not so exceptional in the
early 40's, and that rhetoric (FDR Is one of my favorites!) seems to have
obscured the fact (IMNSHO) that US naval commanders were too complacent.
That does not diminish the heroism of the men on the Arizona and other
ships and US planes in the least.
> And with all due respect to you for the gentleman that you are
> (sincerely, no kidding around), this would be the same as you starting
> a thread on the invasion of Rotterdam and me posting
>
> "hey - that's not an isolated incident. Even though it's May 10th and
> special to you guys, you also need to remember Pearl Harbor here in
> the USA when you talk about the anniversary of the destruction of
> Rotterdam."
I "grok" that, and submit my apologies if my words offended anyone. That
was certainly not the intent.
> In some ways we do little to honor our vets and military in the USA.
> This is one of the days we do.
>
> Robert
And, Robert, I honor them today and every day as well. I just didn't
hang out my flag today as I did on Veterans Day.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Dec 7, 3:43 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I "grok" that, and submit my apologies if my words offended anyone.
>> Th
> at
>> was certainly not the intent.
>
> Han, I might get a bit twitchy these days about the good old USA. I
> am comfortable being the "ugly American" as our last few rounds of
> leadership have left little to the world's imagination about how
> clueless we can be.
>
> We are a big country; we get a lot of things right, and a lot wrong,
> too. But there is always a constant buzz of criticism these days, no
> matter who is in office, what political stripe they wear, or what
> good deeds they might do. What hurts even more is that none of the
> jackasses in any position of power represent anyone I know, so that is
> a constant add to my frustration.
>
>> And, Robert, I honor them today and every day as well. I just didn't
>> hang out my flag today as I did on Veterans Day.
>
> I am sure you do. I hope I didn't come off too badly as you are one
> of the gentlemen of this group. Maybe I should have stopped at that
> last cup of Joe before posting... :^)
>
> Robert
I was a bit hasty in posting what was not too timely, and, again, I
apologize for that.
You "didn't come off badly" at all, but politely pointed out my wrongs,
and I thank you for that.
I hope all is well with you and yours, and wish you all (you presonally,
and everyone in the group) all the best for the holidays. --
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On Dec 7, 12:47=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> History is for the winners to write.
>
> FWIW, before Pearl Harbor, there were other surprise wars. =A0Since I'm
> originally Dutch, this example. =A0Although the Dutch were preparing to
> defend themselves at traditional defensive settings, the May 10, 1940
> attacks were a surprise, not preceded by a declaration of war by Germany.
> After 5 days of battle near my home town and elsewhere, and the aerial
> destruction of the center of Rotterdam, the Dutch were forced to
> surrender. =A0A somewhat smaller scale of the attack by the Japanese on
> Pearl Harbor, and a similar defeat of insufficiently prepared and/or
> equipped defenders.
All true, but his post was about a unique American experience, tied
directly to this day. It wasn't about the past injustices around the
world, nor did it downplay any others. Unlike European history,
Americans don't have many, many centuries of conquest, war and
butchery on our own soil. For those that remember the attack on this
anniversary, and for those that are related or know those that were
involved in some way, and for those that sacrificed because of the
events of December 7, 1941, we honor this day.
And with all due respect to you for the gentleman that you are
(sincerely, no kidding around), this would be the same as you starting
a thread on the invasion of Rotterdam and me posting
"hey - that's not an isolated incident. Even though it's May 10th and
special to you guys, you also need to remember Pearl Harbor here in
the USA when you talk about the anniversary of the destruction of
Rotterdam."
In some ways we do little to honor our vets and military in the USA.
This is one of the days we do.
Robert
On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 08:16:09 -0500, knuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 12/7/2011 3:03 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Least we not forget.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>OR let some in the US rewrite history
Or as phrased in "1984"
"correct history"