Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
patio set - table and four chairs.
So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
thing premade.
Have a great day,
Vic
--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't
"Vic Baron" wrote in message
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the
damn
> thing premade.
Pick and choose. The rockers on the front porch come from Sam's and I can't
buy the teak they're made of for the price I paid. OTOH, every piece of
furniture in my house is made _specifically_ for the spot it occupies ...
you can't buy that.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
Man, I feel your pain. I wrestle with the same issues on almost every
project. I can usually find something pre-made that's cheaper than I
can buy the wood. That's especially true for items that are
lumber-intensive. Often, if a pre-made item suits the purpose, I'll
just buy it. But I still get deep satisfaction out of the things I
build myself. These are usually items to fit a particular space, or
where I know it has potential to become a treasured heirloom. The
cradle I built before my daughter was born is priceless. So is the
cherry bed I share with my wife. You get the idea. Don't feel you
have to build every wooden thing you own to justify the investment in
tools. Sometimes, it's just not worth the trouble. Other times, it's
worth every nickle, splinter and swear.
DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that
is in
it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot
stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that
is
well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." -
Mark
Twain
Vic Baron wrote:
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I
have my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and
a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build
myself a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to
build and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering
PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four
chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for
that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those
of you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it,
unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I
still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy
the damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those
who
> don't
Teak is pretty outrageous stuff these days. I happen to live by place
that liquidates Costco returns, if I was to buy a few busted pieces I
could put together a set for mor then it sold for at Costco. So one
must be careful!
I just finished these projects for my wife:
http://alan.firebin.net/images/scrap2.jpg
The cubes were paterned after:
http://www.scrapncube.com/
I am WAY below those prices. :)
I bought me a set of Shaptons from tools for working wood as a reward,
and I am STILL under those prices.
Clear redwood is incredibly high priced, in my opinion. I built two
adirondack chairs and a side table from plans, paid about $250 for the
lumber. But I've seen similar chairs in high-end lawn furniture stores,
only not quite as nice, for over $400 for a similar set. I also get a
great deal of satisfaction every time I sit down in one. BTW, LOML
loves them too.
OTOH, I'm typing this on a computer sitting on a custom "desk", really
a counter, that is built-in and wraps completely around 3 walls of my
office, which I built myself from salvaged melamine, covered in formica
and trimmed in maple. There are two (maple?) rolling file drawer
cabinets underneath I purchased and assembled from IKEA. I couldn't
justify the time and expense to build them.
What about the possibility of using reclaimed lumber?
Granted, if you have your heart set on clear redwood, it's gonna be
tough, but it may be a possibility. I'm not sure how you'd go about
finding it - maybe place a WANTED ad??
I make mention of this because I've tore off all the railings on our
redwood deck due to dryrot at all the joints (previous owner used steel
through-bolts to attach posts to end joists and railings; just add
water, rust, and dryrot...). Lots of 2x6s and 4x4s, some 4x6s, which
I've taken all the screws out of, and once I chopsaw off the rotted
ends I'll resurface w/ my planer and have LOTS of "fresh" redwood for
other outdoor projects (potting bench for SWMBO, table-bases for our
umbrella stands, etc.)
Anyway, just a suggestion :^)
-Chris
Swingman wrote:
> OTOH, every piece of
> furniture in my house is made _specifically_ for the spot it
occupies ...
> you can't buy that.
THIS is my motivation. The ability to make a piece the exact right
proportions for a given space. We definitely have many places in our
home (of just 4 years) that would be great for a table, or a bench, or
a <fill-in>, but the proportions of the piece to the wallspace needs to
be just so.
-Chris
"C & S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
What I wanted
> simply was not out there. I looked at furniture that happened to be about
> the right size and it simply was not up to holding 300 lbs.
I know the feeling. The aquarium I just put in weighs in at about 1100
pounds. Didn't feel to comfortable with chipboard.
Vic said:
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop.
snip
>I decided to build myself a patio set - table and four chairs.
snip
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down.
snip
Vic, We all suffer for that from time to time. My lovely bride just picked
up some chairs from IKEA! Good God! They are just plain trash.
Now I have to make my own, someday!
OTOH, Where are you getting the wood? In LA there are some great places
that the wood is great and priced right. EG Lane Stanton or Bohnhoff.
Dave
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On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:10:11 GMT, Nate Perkins <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>> Make something special (unique). If you want to make something
>> generic.... add something and make it special.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Steve
>
>Yeah, what Steve said. I don't have the time to build as many things as
>I like, so I build only the things that are differentiated from what I
>can cheaply buy.
>
>I did build one outdoor cabinet (for the barbecue) out of white oak. It
>kills me to see it weathering away out there every year. I think it
>will be a long time before I build anything of substance for the
>outdoors :-P YMMV
>
>Nate
right on, Nate... there comes a time when you gotta say "This isn't worth the
time and/or cost to build..
I was going to build 2 small book cases for my wife's "pyrography" (adds money
to wood burning like "junque" adds to used stuff) area of the shop... figuring
about $50 or so if I used MDF...
Walking through Wally World and found a 30" x 36" prefinished book case for
$17... I bought 3 of the suckers...
They went together in about 5 min each, no tools needed, even the cardboard
backs (yeah, I know) were already attached..
Bottom line: 3 bookcases that she likes for the cost of building them... and
at least 3 nights that I wouldn't be building bookcases and can be turning
kindling or making something that I enjoy working on..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
I think everyone here would agree that WWing does not save money.
However, I started WWing because I considered the stuff that was being sold
in stores to be junk. I now make one of kind SOLID custom furniture that
will last generations. A friend wants me to make four footstools - so he
can use them as a car stand!
Mark
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have
my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself
a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build
and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of
you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the
damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> don't
>
>
The days of home made being cheaper are long gone with about anything. The
only reasons to make yur own is if you just want to or you can't buy what
you want.
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have
my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself
a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build
and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of
you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the
damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
>
> --
> There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
> don't
>
>
I personally gave up trying to justify my hobby by saying to myself "I'll
save $$".
Wood is expensive but for me, it's the journey if you will, of building it
myself.
Sure I could run down to CrapMart and pick up a premade item but honestly,
I have much more pride in building it myself vs. putting together something
out of a
box. I suppose on some items, I do save $$ if I were to compare what I
built to
something of comparable construction but overall, for me, it's the hobby.
Cheers,
cc
ps. getting ready to embark on my own patio table and 4 chairs. Just
priced Teak...holy crap!
Vic Baron wrote:
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
>
Yeah, the cost of wood just floors you. But if
labor/time is of little value, you still can make
money. My house is full of wood pieces I made
including 3 desks and of course the built in
bookcases. Recently, I laid some laminate flooring
and would have had to pay at least $100 to install
it if I had not had a decent saw. I saved on the
transitions also. I could have purchased the
regular transitions (rug to wood, rug to vinyl,
etc) which would have cost a minimum of $130.
Instead I bought an 8 foot piece of cherry and
milled my own transitions out of solid wood for a
cost of $43. The second coat of polyurethane is
now drying.
We all look at costs in the past and say, "Why
didn't we do/buy it back then?" Well, we are in
the past, at least tomorrow this will be in the past.
Maybe a compromise? Buy the chairs ready made, and build the table as you
want it? In either case, I feel your pain. Sometimes my projects revolve
more around what wood is available at affordable prices more so than what I
want to build at the time. I got lucky during a large remodel last winter
and salvaged about 15 4"x6"x8" Redwood beams that were used for a coffered
ceiling in a huge sun room. They were installed in the 1950's, and covered
up in the 1980's with drywall. With the exception of some holes drilled in
them by an electrician for lighting, they're in good shape. I just hope
there is enough to build a couple of chairs and a table, cuz i just couldn't
afford to buy more! Perhaps there is a salvage yard in your area that might
have used lumber? Or maybe a local deck builder may point you in a
direction where there is a deck being demolished to make way for a new one
and you could salvage some lumber. Good luck. --dave
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:46:46 GMT, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Snip'''''''''''''
>>Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
>>1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
>>amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
>>including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>>Snip'''''''''''''''''
>
> You will almost never save money by building something... At least
> I almost can never...
>
> BUT I have discovered places like Good Will etc...that has
> Furniture...some crap.. some good... very cheap....
>
> Solid Cherry dinning table for 15 bucks... .. etc... well
> the wood alone is worth that much...
>
> Lol
>
> BUT I hear you loud and clear...
>
> Bob Griffiths
>>
Vic Baron says...
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
I don't understand this or why everyone is agreeing with you. You may
be able to get something for what you have in materials, but is it
anywhere near the quality of what you make for yourself? If it was,
then there would be absolutely no reason to bother making it, but I
almost never see solid wood anything as good as I can make for any
amount of money. Is it rational to compare something made of thin
particle board covered with vinyl veneer to a solid wood piece or even
one made from good plywood? Even if you find solid wood pieces, most
likely you will find it is cheap wood (alder for example), thin and/or
glued together from many little pieces. Most things from discount
stores are not solid wood even if they claim to be. I'm sitting at a
table I bought from Oak Express for $150 a year ago and was told that
all their furniture is solid wood. I knew that wasn't true before the
salesman told me, but I bought it because I wanted a better computer
table for cheap, not because I thought it was fine furniture. It is 60%
particle board, but it looks like it might be solid wood from a few feet
away. I did the math on making it from real oak, and even if you bought
s4s shrink wrapped retail lumber for $5/bf, it would still be less than
$150. Rough cut white oak can be had for $2.50/bf, so I could make a
far superior table for half the $150 I paid. And don't forget where
almost every furniture maker cuts corners--the finish. The finish on
everything I see in stores is so thin and fragile, it's almost
worthless. This table is a good example of that. It looks OK, as long
as you never use it. I'd be ashamed to make anything as bad as I see in
most stores. Of course, if you can find furniture that is genuinely as
good as what you can make, it will be very, very expensive. I'm not an
expert on redwood and teak outdoor furniture, and if you can really buy
something as good as you can make for the same price, then it would be
foolish to waste time making it just for the 'joy' of creating. But I
would be surprised if it was really the same. Is the 'some assembly
required' nuts and bolts joinery really as good as glued and clamped
wood joints? I don't see how it could be. This table I'm typing at
barely went together.
Jeffrey Picciotto says...
> Wow! I can't make *anything* better than anybody yet, and certainly not
> better than what I can buy (e.g., David Margonelli's furniture - Edgecomb,
> ME). For the cost (time + materials) maybe I never will.
>
> But then, to me, that's not the point.
>
> --jeff
Does this gentleman sell furniture for the same price I can buy lumber?
Didn't think so.
David E. Penner says...
> Got to agree with Hax. I started building my own furniture when I realized
> that the stuff I could afford to buy in the stores was junk and/or plain
> ugly, and the stuff I loved I couldn't afford to buy. I've built almost
> all of the furniture in our house. Most of this is cherry, walnut and
> maple (other woods include vertical grain DF, ash and elm). Every piece is
> unique, designed to fit our relatively small (1100 sf) house. Although the
> pieces are not part of a "set" they compliment each other beautifully.
>
> david
>
> ps. as for cost. I also do commission pieces. Recently I was asked if my
> prices were "reasonable." I told the individual that my hourly rate was
> less than what a mechanic charges and, unlike their car, they would be
> able to pass on a piece of my furniture to their grandkids. On the other
> hand, if they wanted a dining table and 6 chairs for $500.00, they chould
> go to Oak Express, etc.
It's true. The discount store stuff is either junk or ugly. That's why
the price is so low. I'm not sure I ever saw anything in a discount
store that wasn't junk, ugly or not. I've seen furniture for not much
more than what I pay in materials. But then materials for a bookshelf I
make are 3/4" cherry plywood, walnut, and a finish of my choice with
strengths and weakness I understand. God only knows what you get from a
discount store. Wally-World stuff is almost all thin, low grade
particle board covered with simulated wood vinyl veneer. Somewhat
better stuff like at Oak Express and Value City Furniture typically have
about 50% real wood in strategic places and thicker particle board with
better veneers. Anything less than this isn't worth taking home in my
experience and I do believe that this level of furniture makes sense for
a lot of people. But it isn't cheaper than materials for making
something much, much better out of all real wood and a real finish.
Once you get to good quality furniture from good furniture stores, then
the prices go to an entirely different level and it is only there that
you will find all solid wood furniture that compares to what you can
make, and even then it probably doesn't compare that well in categories
like wood selection. Even good quality furniture is usually heavy on
upholstery and light on finished wood, and that makes sense a lot of the
time. You want a soft couch to veg out on, and you can't make a
Barcalounger out of solid wood, but upholstery is also good for covering
rough, low quality wood and expedient joinery. One of my plans on the
drawing board is a futon sofa with a solid wood frame and cushions. It
will be lightweight, comfortable, indestructible and far less expensive
to make than anything I could buy.
CW wrote:
> The days of home made being cheaper are long gone with about anything. The
> only reasons to make yur own is if you just want to or you can't buy what
> you want.
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have
Interesting thread and I will resist the temptation to ask "What would
Vito do?"<g>
When I first became a homeowner, thirty plus years ago, what was
formerly "something I could do in a pinch that I enjoyed" became, due to
economic reasons of a newly married, homeowner, something "that I had to
do and enjoyed." Still a win-win situation regardless as I was enjoying
it and benefiting by my labors.
Now I'm at a point where amongst friends my own age, the word "Need" is
considered in bad form, being mature adults with integrity we prefer to
say it like it is. We WANT something and so, being financially able to
support that ideology, we do what we want and give little thought to need.
And so it goes, I now have a reasonable collection of power hand and
stationary tools, I don't NEED to built squat, but I WANT to. So who
really cares if I spend two or three times the amount to build the
additional bookcases and built-in computer desk in the family room than
I would down at Ikea or wherever? I am doing it because I WANT to and I
ENJOY it and when you get right down to it, that's what it's all about.
Not to mention that I would have a hell of a time matching said bookcase
and desk to the current 16' of custome made oak bookcase and base
cabinet that I lovingly built and finished eighteen years ago.<g>
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have
> my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself
> a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the
> damn
> thing premade.
I don't do it to save money. OTOH, in some cases I have. I built a Tudor
bench and it cost me $300 for the wood. The same bench at a store in
Glastonbury, CT (Smith & Hawkins) was $990 I also have quite a few hours
into it. Mine is cypress, theirs is allegedly teak.
When I bought a new TV, they had a stand that sold for $100. The one I made
cost me $140 or so, but instead of particleboard, it is oak and has features
the store bought did not have.
I'm thinking of a couple of other projects, like an Adirondack chair. I
spotted one outside a store and it was $139. Except is swayed when I put my
hand on it, can't imagine what would happen if I plopped my ass in it. .
Sure, some things can be bought cheaper, but the satisfaction of making
something exactly how you want it is worth something that money will not
buy. Nothing replaces the fun of giving a gift that you made and the
recipient appreciates it. It is not the destination, but the journey. Enjoy
the journey.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
That's sort of what I'm doing. Took me a while but I finally found a premade
red cedar table that I like and bought it for less than I could buy the wood
for. Still checking various sources for the best price on wood for the
chairs but so far the four chairs will cost me about the same as the table
plus my labor. However, I will enjoy building them and that's the plus
factor.
"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Maybe a compromise? Buy the chairs ready made, and build the table as you
> want it? In either case, I feel your pain. Sometimes my projects
revolve
> more around what wood is available at affordable prices more so than what
I
> want to build at the time. I got lucky during a large remodel last
winter
> and salvaged about 15 4"x6"x8" Redwood beams that were used for a coffered
> ceiling in a huge sun room. They were installed in the 1950's, and
covered
> up in the 1980's with drywall. With the exception of some holes drilled
in
> them by an electrician for lighting, they're in good shape. I just hope
> there is enough to build a couple of chairs and a table, cuz i just
couldn't
> afford to buy more! Perhaps there is a salvage yard in your area that
might
> have used lumber? Or maybe a local deck builder may point you in a
> direction where there is a deck being demolished to make way for a new one
> and you could salvage some lumber. Good luck. --dave
>
>
> "Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:46:46 GMT, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Snip'''''''''''''
> >>Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> >>1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for
that
> >>amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> >>including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
> >>Snip'''''''''''''''''
> >
> > You will almost never save money by building something... At least
> > I almost can never...
> >
> > BUT I have discovered places like Good Will etc...that has
> > Furniture...some crap.. some good... very cheap....
> >
> > Solid Cherry dinning table for 15 bucks... .. etc... well
> > the wood alone is worth that much...
> >
> > Lol
> >
> > BUT I hear you loud and clear...
> >
> > Bob Griffiths
> >>
>
>
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to
> build and set about pricing various types of wood - basically just
> considering PT Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table
> and four chairs would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay
> a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for
> that amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden
> sets, including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
Clear redwood is pretty expensive, even in Redwood country. To a great
degree, that's because the old growth was heavily exploited by my great
grandparents' generation, and what we cut today is second third and
fourth growth material.
Most high-end decking is now being done with ipe, at least here (SF Bay
Area). Stronger, every bit as weather resistant, and really pretty. If
you use that, or something similar, you can build a lighter-looking set,
more like you would with teak, but at much lower prices than teak.
Where with redwood, 2x6 was commonly used for deck boards, 1x6 more than
suffices.
I can save money on projects that have to be done on site, sometimes,
because I am often willing to pay with labor what I am unwilling to pay
with cash. Where machines, jigs, and mass production techniques remove
a skill premium, I have to consider whether it makes sense for me to put
my labors elsewhere. And I have decided that I have poured my last
concrete patio.
My woodworking tools are like my golf clubs. Used in an enjoyable, but
sometimes frustrating hobby. Unlike golf, there is evidence of my
occaisional success.
Patriarch
"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for
> that amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden
> sets, including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
>
Vic,
I saw some nice clear redwood 2x6's at Ganahl Lumber in Anaheim recently
for $2.49/linear foot. Ganahl's is a real lumber company with two big
warehouses; one for softwood and one for hard woods.
Don
Mark and Kim Smith <[email protected]> wrote in news:d2drah$cm1
@dispatch.concentric.net:
> <snip>
>
>> And I have decided that I have poured my last
>>concrete patio.
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Patriarch
>>
>>
>
> Hey! I just poured my first! Then I covered it with pavers!
> http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond8.htm
>
We did one of those three summers ago, getting done just before a wedding.
The one we did ourselves doesn't look as good as the ones in the front of
the house that the landscaper's crew did.
Yours looks pretty good. Enjoy it for a long time!
Patriarch
Hax Planks <[email protected]> wrote in
> if you can really buy something as good as you can make for the
> same price, then it would be foolish to waste time making it just for
> the 'joy' of creating.
Wow! I can't make *anything* better than anybody yet, and certainly not
better than what I can buy (e.g., David Margonelli's furniture - Edgecomb,
ME). For the cost (time + materials) maybe I never will.
But then, to me, that's not the point.
--jeff
Hax Planks <[email protected]> wrote in
> Does this gentleman sell furniture for the same price I can buy
> lumber? Didn't think so.
>
Is lumber your only cost?
Didn't think so.
--jeff
"C & S" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
>> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for
>> that amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden
>> sets, including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>>
>> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those
>> of
> you
>> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it,
>> unless you live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> That's a poor choice of project. Don't build what you can buy.
>
> Don't compete with Walmart. You can't.
...
>
> Make something special (unique). If you want to make something
> generic.... add something and make it special.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Steve
Yeah, what Steve said. I don't have the time to build as many things as
I like, so I build only the things that are differentiated from what I
can cheaply buy.
I did build one outdoor cabinet (for the barbecue) out of white oak. It
kills me to see it weathering away out there every year. I think it
will be a long time before I build anything of substance for the
outdoors :-P YMMV
Nate
Multi locations. http://www.ganahl.com/index.htm
Steve wrote:
> Is Ganahl's still on Katella near Lewis?
>
> --Steve
>
> Don Wheeler wrote:
>
>>
>> I saw some nice clear redwood 2x6's at Ganahl Lumber in Anaheim
>> recently for $2.49/linear foot. Ganahl's is a real lumber company
>> with two big warehouses; one for softwood and one for hard woods.
>>
>> Don
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of
you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
That's a poor choice of project. Don't build what you can buy.
Don't compete with Walmart. You can't.
If you wnated a table which was "just so" with a design element which is
just for you, then you are "competing" with a custom artisan.
My idea of a good project is an aquarium stand (I have made 3, each very
different) But each time I wanted something that looked like piece of
furniture (among other requirements). If you have ever looked at the retail
market for aquarium stands, it's 90% chipboard 10% pine. What I wanted
simply was not out there. I looked at furniture that happened to be about
the right size and it simply was not up to holding 300 lbs.
Make something special (unique). If you want to make something generic....
add something and make it special.
Cheers,
Steve
In article <[email protected]>, Hax Planks
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Vic Baron says...
>
> > Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
> > tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> > plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
> > patio set - table and four chairs.
> >
> > So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
> > set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> > Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> > would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
> >
> > Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> > 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> > amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> > including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
> >
> > Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
> > who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> > live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
> >
> > Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> > haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
> > thing premade.
> >
> > Have a great day,
> >
> > Vic
>
> I don't understand this or why everyone is agreeing with you. You may
> be able to get something for what you have in materials, but is it
> anywhere near the quality of what you make for yourself?
SNIP
Got to agree with Hax. I started building my own furniture when I realized
that the stuff I could afford to buy in the stores was junk and/or plain
ugly, and the stuff I loved I couldn't afford to buy. I've built almost
all of the furniture in our house. Most of this is cherry, walnut and
maple (other woods include vertical grain DF, ash and elm). Every piece is
unique, designed to fit our relatively small (1100 sf) house. Although the
pieces are not part of a "set" they compliment each other beautifully.
david
ps. as for cost. I also do commission pieces. Recently I was asked if my
prices were "reasonable." I told the individual that my hourly rate was
less than what a mechanic charges and, unlike their car, they would be
able to pass on a piece of my furniture to their grandkids. On the other
hand, if they wanted a dining table and 6 chairs for $500.00, they chould
go to Oak Express, etc.
On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:43:22 -0700, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>there comes a time when you gotta say "This isn't worth the
>time and/or cost to build..
>
>I was going to build 2 small book cases for my wife's "pyrography" (adds money
>to wood burning like "junque" adds to used stuff) area of the shop... figuring
>about $50 or so if I used MDF...
>Walking through Wally World and found a 30" x 36" prefinished book case for
>$17... I bought 3 of the suckers...
>They went together in about 5 min each, no tools needed, even the cardboard
>backs (yeah, I know) were already attached..
(Flashback of the epiphany I had at work last month: a 21" Sony
monitor weighs almost exactly the same as a 13" Delta planer.)
Repeat after me: "Ikea is your friend." They've got some $40 computer
desks, complete with casters(1), that are just the right size for tool
carts.
(1) No, the casters *don't* lock...whaddaya want for $40?
Lee
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:46:46 GMT, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
>tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
>plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
>patio set - table and four chairs.
Because every time you sit at your table in your chairs, you can
experience the satisfaction of knowing you made them yourself. One
day (or maybe that day has already come for you, and you're just
having a bad week) you're going to want something that cannot be had
at any store, and you'll have the experience and equipment to make it
happen on your own- with no plans or prices to compare that thing you
want to. When that happens, any price is a bargin.
>So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
>set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
>Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
>would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
>Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
>1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
>amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
>including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
But they're not yours, they're something you bought. I know you know
the difference, or you wouldn't have made it past buying a circular
saw and a brad nailer.
>Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
>who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
>live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
Buying in bulk drives the price of anything down quickly. Buying wet
wood from the sawmill and drying it yourself does as well. When
there's a will, there's always a way- keep your chin up.
>Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
>haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
>thing premade.
Spend the money on the wood. What kind of question is that?
>Have a great day,
>
>Vic
You too- we all get down at times.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:46:46 GMT, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
>tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
>plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
>patio set - table and four chairs.
>
>So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
>set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
>Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
>would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
>Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
>1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
>amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
>including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
>Some days it really gets me down.
>
>Vic
I never justify a project that way. A chinese factory full of
underpaid virtual slaves is going to be able to produce a piece for
far less than even the raw wood costs at the homecenter or lumber
yard.
If savings on wood is what your after, find someone with a Woodmizer.
The guys that remove trees and so on. Maybe not easy in California
though.
I've just completed a desk on cherry. Shaker style, raised panels.
Mortise and Tenons all over, dovetail joinery for the drawers. Solid
wood drawer bottoms (with allowance for expansion/contraction). And
so on.
Why build when I could go to almost any furniture store and buy one?
Because it's my hobby. Because I'll get the features I want. Because
I like the old techniques. Because I don't want hot melt glue in my
furniture. And so on. There's as many reasons as there are hobby
woodworkers.
And I aspire to make something as excellent at Krenov or Maloof.
You're lucky. You could visit Sam Maloof's place. He's in Southern
California somewhere.
BTW, the board foot price for redwood doesn't look wildly expensive.
Teak is a different story. Have you tried looking for IPE? Maybe one
of the online lumber dealers could help.
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:46:46 GMT, "Vic Baron" <[email protected]>
wrote:
Snip'''''''''''''
>Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
>1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
>amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
>including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>Snip'''''''''''''''''
You will almost never save money by building something... At least
I almost can never...
BUT I have discovered places like Good Will etc...that has
Furniture...some crap.. some good... very cheap....
Solid Cherry dinning table for 15 bucks... .. etc... well
the wood alone is worth that much...
Lol
BUT I hear you loud and clear...
Bob Griffiths
>
I always laugh at my friends when they go fishing and tell them what I
pay for a whitefish at the store. They come and laugh at me in my shop
and quote me prices at Ikea.
Some of us now refer to our hardwood dealer as our crack dealer and
we're a bunch of addicts. After spending all that money on tools and
spending all that time getting good enough to build things I'm proud of,
I can't think about the cost it wood hurt too much.
I just bought a board of Mahogany for $350 and a board of Mubangi (?)
for $250 along with 75 bdf of Wenge and assorted other bits and pieces.
Then one of the projects has a large carving so i had to buy carving
tools and some assorted other things like riflers and specialty rasps.
It's probably been about a $2K addiction this month but The projects are
looking fabulous, I developed some more skills and next time I need some
wood there's a better chance I'll have a nice piece in the shop and not
have to go to the crack dealer.
JC
Vic Baron wrote:
> Somebody please remind me why I turned my garage into a workshop. I have my
> tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, routertable and dustcollection system and a
> plethora of assorted small power and hand tools. I decided to build myself a
> patio set - table and four chairs.
>
> So I looked at various plans and finally decided what I wanted to build and
> set about pricing various types of wood - basically just considering PT
> Pine, Cedar, Redwood and Teak. Considering that a table and four chairs
> would consume around 100 or more BF I expected to pay a decent price.
>
> Here in Southern California ( Los Angeles area) clear redwood 2x4 is
> 1.85/lineal foot - 2x6 is 3.15/lineal foot. The sad part is that for that
> amount of money I can BUY many different types of great wooden sets,
> including teak and all I have to do is assemble them.
>
> Some days it really gets me down. I have the utmost respect for those of you
> who do this as a business - frankly I don't know how you do it, unless you
> live in a forest where you can get free wood :)
>
> Sorry for the rant - it's been one of those days. Unfortunately I still
> haven't decided if I'm going to spend the money on wood or just buy the damn
> thing premade.
>
> Have a great day,
>
> Vic
>