Waterproofing Wooden Box

I'm a waterproofing contractor. When you mention waterproof, it has
different meanings to different people. For what your talking about
(constant submersion) your on the right track with plastic sheets, but what
you actually want is shower pan liner. Its comes in sheets (probably
available at Home Depot or the likes) and is made of PVC. The solvent to
weld the seams is probably in the same isle.

To make it so it don't move around once installed, just staple the sheet and
weld a patch over the staple.


"BKennedy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?
>
> -bkennedy

How about the stuff you dip tool handles in? It comes
in red and yellow and maybe more colors.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2686

Art

"BKennedy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?
>
> -bkennedy

Two part, clear, bar top epoxy. Available at craft stores and the borgs.

"Michael Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 10-Sep-2003, [email protected] (BKennedy) wrote:
>
> > What epoxy should I look for? What's the best choice?
>
> Find a good marine supply shop and look at what they have. West
> System, East System, MAS are all good.
>
> Do not get the epoxy at the corner store, hardware store, auto repair
> shop or discount place. There's a world of difference between the
> cheap stuff and the better brands. Also, don't get vinylester or polyester
> resin - cheaper but stinkier to use and not as good. Polyester resin will
> not be waterproof (though it'll take a long time to tell).
>
> My personal preference is for West System, but that's just because I
> have experience with it. Cures nice and clear and doesn't smell.
>
> Handle epoxies with care until cured. It's relatively easy to become
> allergic to the uncured stuff and the chemicals, before curing, are nasty.
> Once cured, they're fine.
>
> Mike

No wood box will permanently hold water. Forever is a long time.

How long does it need to retain water without leaking?
What is going to be in the box...is toxicity an issue?
How deep is the box (static pressure)?

Too many unknowns.

Phil

BKennedy wrote:
> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?
>
> -bkennedy

"D.B." wrote:

> Something to consider... oak water and wine barrels don't
> have liners.

They're white oak, not red.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Perhaps some fiberglas cloth and resin would do the trick? I've used
fiberglas with both polyester resin (considered the conventional method)
and epoxy, and both held water for a long time without leaking. If it's a
relatively small box, there won't be enough flex from the weight of the
water to cause problems with the fiberglas.

I figured, it works for boats on the outside, and they sit in the water
for years sometimes without leaks through the hull, so why not? It did
work well, though if the fiberglas is exposed to UV (ultraviolet) you may
want to make sure it is painted or otherwise protected from the UV. One
box I had in the back yard in San Jose didn't do as well in direct sun,
compared to one in the front yard under shade most of the time.

--Rick

BKennedy wrote:

> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?
>
> -bkennedy

Thanks everyone for the ideas! And I'm planning on using an epoxy but
the tool handle dip is interesting.

There's really nothing more 'waterproof' than tar, is there? I
believe I'll use that to adhere the plastic sheets to, as I found that
by chemically bonding acrylic sheets together (hopefully 1/8") you can
make fish tanks! That should be good for the tar-protected reservoir
then.

heh, I had no idea that these newsgougs could be so helpful. :)
(Forget the 'retail-based' web searches when I need info from now on.)

-Brad K

More questions later.

"Sam Krenov" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > There's really nothing more 'waterproof' than tar, is there? I
> > believe I'll use that to adhere the plastic sheets to, as I found that
> > by chemically bonding acrylic sheets together (hopefully 1/8") you can
> > make fish tanks! That should be good for the tar-protected reservoir
> > then.
>
>
> Here's a hint - they use a whole bunch more epoxy in boat building than
> they use tar.

What epoxy should I look for? What's the best choice?

How about epoxy? Dries clear.


"Wood Butcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0sn7b.404128$o%2.180324@sccrnsc02...
> How about the stuff you dip tool handles in? It comes
> in red and yellow and maybe more colors.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2686
>
> Art
>
> "BKennedy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello, (1st post)
> >
> > I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak
to
> > 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> > me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> > of this reservoir.
> >
> > But tar is ugly.
> >
> > So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> > sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints.
Added
> > protection, I hope.
> > I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> > structure will be kept indoors.
> > Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> > concerns that I should look into first?
> >
> > -bkennedy
>
>

BKennedy wrote:
> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?
>
> -bkennedy
>

Something to consider... oak water and wine barrels don't
have liners.


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On Mon 08 Sep 2003 11:59:38a, [email protected] (BKennedy) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hello, (1st post)
>
> I'm looking for some advice on waterproofing a box of 3/4" red oak to
> 'permenantly' hold water. Doing some research (which eventually led
> me here) I've found that it maybe possible to use tar for the inside
> of this reservoir.
>
> But tar is ugly.
>
> So I'm thinking about covering the tar with some type of plastic
> sheets and (hopefully) somehow welding the plastic sheet joints. Added
> protection, I hope.
> I'm not concerned about the outside of this box as the entire
> structure will be kept indoors.
> Does this sound possible? And does anyone have any suggestions or
> concerns that I should look into first?

I watched an episode of the Woodwright's Shop when he had Frank Klausz as a
guest. Frank built a water box for a sharpening stone, out of nothing but
and nails. I can't remember for sure now if the the box was meant to always
have water in it but I'd be willing to bet a sixpack that it was.

He used sliding dovetails to join the sides, and made a 'gasket' for the
bottom by taking a thick piece of wire and a hammer and making an unbroken
indendation all the way around underside of the side pieces. Then he put
the bottom on and nailed it with a LOT of nails - looked like every one or
two inches. That crushes the fibers and makes them swell more than the
surrounding wood when they get wet. Made the whole thing on the show, no
breaks. That guy is FAST. Held water immediately, didn't even leak before
it swelled up.

Frank told Roy that while he was in wood school, he'd make a few bucks on
the side by asking every pregnant woman he saw if she'd like to have a
baby's bathtub handmade, cheap. Said he made them the same way he did the
waterstone box.

It was a long time ago that I saw that show. Now that I think about it,
seemed like he cut the pins for the sliding dovetail with a handsaw but had
a special plane to cut the tailpiece.

Dan

On Fri 12 Sep 2003 06:41:45p, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:ZQs8b.429870$uu5.77209@sccrnsc04:

> You forgot a step. After putting the groove in, plane the rest down to
> the same level as the bottom of the groove. That way, it will swell
> more than the surrounding wood.

I was going to say something when David pointed that out, but my daughter's
wedding got in the way. :-) So now I will:

Now that you mention it, I think I do vaguely remember that. Guess it was
longer ago than I thought. Still one of my favorite WS shows. Sure wish my
local PBS would run 'em again.

Dan

You forgot a step. After putting the groove in, plane the rest down to the
same level as the bottom of the groove. That way, it will swell more than
the surrounding wood.
"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon 08 Sep 2003 11:59:38a, [email protected] (BKennedy) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>

> I watched an episode of the Woodwright's Shop when he had Frank Klausz as
a
> guest. Frank built a water box for a sharpening stone, out of nothing but
> and nails. I can't remember for sure now if the the box was meant to
always
> have water in it but I'd be willing to bet a sixpack that it was.
>
> He used sliding dovetails to join the sides, and made a 'gasket' for the
> bottom by taking a thick piece of wire and a hammer and making an unbroken
> indendation all the way around underside of the side pieces. Then he put
> the bottom on and nailed it with a LOT of nails - looked like every one or
> two inches. That crushes the fibers and makes them swell more than the
> surrounding wood when they get wet. Made the whole thing on the show, no
> breaks. That guy is FAST. Held water immediately, didn't even leak before
> it swelled up.
>
> Frank told Roy that while he was in wood school, he'd make a few bucks on
> the side by asking every pregnant woman he saw if she'd like to have a
> baby's bathtub handmade, cheap. Said he made them the same way he did the
> waterstone box.
>
> It was a long time ago that I saw that show. Now that I think about it,
> seemed like he cut the pins for the sliding dovetail with a handsaw but
had
> a special plane to cut the tailpiece.
>
> Dan

> I watched an episode of the Woodwright's Shop when he had Frank Klausz as a
> guest. Frank built a water box for a sharpening stone, out of nothing but
> and nails. I can't remember for sure now if the the box was meant to always
> have water in it but I'd be willing to bet a sixpack that it was.
>
> He used sliding dovetails to join the sides, and made a 'gasket' for the
> bottom by taking a thick piece of wire and a hammer and making an unbroken
> indendation all the way around underside of the side pieces. Then he put
> the bottom on and nailed it with a LOT of nails - looked like every one or
> two inches. That crushes the fibers and makes them swell more than the
> surrounding wood when they get wet. Made the whole thing on the show, no
> breaks. That guy is FAST. Held water immediately, didn't even leak before
> it swelled up.

Somewere I've got this in a magazine I saved (from memory I think
American Woodworker from about 5 years back).

After making the indentation with the wire, he would plane the edge
down to the level of the indentation. That way, after nailing the
bottom on, the compressed wood expanded more than the surrounding
material creating a "gasket." I think he may also have used a tapered
sliding dovetail to make a tighter joint.

-David

"BKennedy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Sam Krenov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > There's really nothing more 'waterproof' than tar, is there? I
> > > believe I'll use that to adhere the plastic sheets to, as I found that
> > > by chemically bonding acrylic sheets together (hopefully 1/8") you can
> > > make fish tanks! That should be good for the tar-protected reservoir
> > > then.
> >
> >
> > Here's a hint - they use a whole bunch more epoxy in boat building than
> > they use tar.
>
> What epoxy should I look for? What's the best choice?


Here is one place. Much cheaper than buying a bunch of those little tubes at
the borg.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch?storeId=10001
&catalogId=10001&keyword=epoxy
--
Jim in NC