About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started color
coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they are
leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
For less than $160 you can get an 18v combo kit including a Drill/Driver,
Circle saw, Recip saw, and Flash light.
Or, a 120 volt 13amp circular saw with laser for $59.99.
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/content/binary/PCPrices.pdf
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com:80/editorsblog/New+Tools+From+Porter+Cable.aspx
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FZ3lk.59$T91.27@trnddc04...
> [email protected] wrote:
> I'm wondering if there is room for a new company that truly makes the best
> tools made in all categories, sadly probably not. Guess this is called
> progress. Can't imagine what tools will be available in 20 years.
Not likely that 12 company will build the best of everything, there never
has been. Festool may be the closest today. Tools today will probably be
better than they are today. IMHO tools today are better than they were 20
years ago, they have just change names. GM and Ford used to be considered
top notch, Now Honda and Toyota fill the position and both of those are
much better than GM and Ford ever thought of being.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:18:04 +0100, Michael Briggs wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
> Subject: Re: Looks like PC is following the path of B&D
> From: "Michael Briggs" <[email protected]>
> Date: 5/8/08 17:18
> Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
>
> I would have to say it is caused by the big box stores. Here is my example.
>
> I was looking for a wire feed welder. I was looking at the miller and
> lincoln 135 amp welders. Lowes and Home D. around here. Friend of mine who
> owns a machine shop said to stay away from them. To go to a welding
> supplier. I asked "whats the difference besides price, both are 135 amp
> welders from same companies. He said not the same units though. Looking
> closer I found that the actual model numbers were different even though the
> units were looked exactly the same. I will use the example of the Lincoln sp
<excellent rant truncated>
> sorry bout the rant
> Mike
>
In U.K.. the market leader in routers is Trend. Same price bracket as DW.
Excellent machines. Built like tanks blah blah.
Frequently see ebay.co.uk ads for Trend routers which usually turn out to be
B&Q (big box home store thing) own-spec model. I don't remember the model
number but it's a unique series. (NOT the t3/4, t5, t9/t10/t11 which I CAN
remember) Thought these might be a bargain: nice fitted case, many bits
included, reputation of "Trend" very low price, so I did some research a year
or two back.
Seems that the B&Q model, clearly marked "Trend" in appropriate corporate
logostyle, is a P.O.S. which Trend customer service deny all knowledge of,
and refer customers back to B&Q who know nothing about routers.
Very surprising, as Trend service is PDG usually.
This raises all sort of ethics/marketing questions.
The units seem to be FEPOS with no QC actually handled at some point by
Trend, at least long enough to badge them.
Long term, I don't see this doing anyone any favours. Short term, it seems
like a good idea to accountants and naive customers.
Who wins?
No-one long term. The brand is compromised. The only gains on any level are
short term, unless you're a customer who got a "Rolex!!" bargain in a Trend
router for occasional D.I.Y work which turns out to be in a batch that is
trouble-free and requires no service backup.
So, look at the PC issue. THAT all seems to be in house, so PC / BD should at
least provide service, but if components constantly fail in professional use,
the service will eventually cease being professional and will default to the
usual fob-the-customer-off stomewalling that is all too common nowadays.
Another brand compromised and customers having no-where else to turn for top
quality solutions.
Bigger, faster bucks for the shareholders and sell the company down the river
because the word "tomorrow" doesn't figure in MBE thinking.
Yeuch.
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in news:28d1f5ed-
[email protected]:
>
> That was actually part of my own obtuse way of making my point. I
> don't care who or what powers it, if I hold it and guide it in my hand
> while using it, to me it is a "hand tool".
*snip*
>
> Robert
The way I see things is that a "hand tool" is powered by hand. If you
move your hands to perform its function (but not to control the tool or
operate it) then it's a hand tool.
If you guide a tool, but the power to perform its function comes from any
source but your hand, it's a power tool. I realize such tools as a foot
powered sharpening stone or lathe would be considered a power tool by
this definition.
Think of it as "hand-powered tool" and "not hand-powered tool." There
are tools that fit in both categories.
Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Aug 4, 2:43 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stationary tools are tools to which you bring the piece that is being
> worked on, a hand tool is a tool you take to the piece you're working
> on.
> Both are portable tools. Some more so than others. Some are movable
> stationary tools. I would consider a stud-finder and a flashlight hand
> tools, even though they're electrified. EEeeeelectrified!!!
We are like minded on that point.
> But, I try not to pay too much attention to those who nit-pick at
> semantics .. they're usually holed up in a basement with nothing else
> to do...and never contribute anything worthwhile.
LOL. Probably more energy than it's worth to make a point with crowd
than it's worth anyway.
At the ballgame the other night, I am reminded of a conversation
between two of my friends about a third party that was no in
attendance.
"Damn that was one argumentative sombitch! He pissed me off more than
once - I hope you don't bring him out here again. A little of him
sure goes a long way."
*chuckle* "Well, that's the way Bill is... for him, arguing is
sport. If have a white golf ball in your hand, he will argue with you
about what color it is".
Overhearing this, I responded - "why in the hell would you spend your
free time around a contentious asshole that has nothing better to do
than to stir up pointless crap for his own amusement?"
To borrow your "phrase" -->> =0)
Robert
On Aug 5, 8:18 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nobody can look me in the eye and tell me that a 20-pound sledgehammer
> is NOT a 'power tool'.
>
> :>}
Ha! Amen!
And so versatile, too. I am wondering why we haven't seen Billy Mays
Here selling them for something.
Robert
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 05:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Aug 2, 8:38 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started color
>> coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they are
>> leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
>>
>> For less than $160 you can get an 18v combo kit including a Drill/Driver,
>> Circle saw, Recip saw, and Flash light.
>>
>> Or, a 120 volt 13amp circular saw with laser for $59.99.
>>
>> http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/content/binary/PCPric...
>>
>> http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com:80/editorsblog/New+Tools+From+Por...
>
>Yup! And another one gone, another bites the dust.....
>I already am well aware of PC having done the moonwalk for a while.
>Their production routers used to last me a few (as much as 8) years,
That was in the not so distant past when they used to wind their own
motors in house in Jackson, TN.
>then the later ones they were dead in (max) 2 years. Bearings. That
>all happened when the motors became too small to fit in the older
>bases. Crap. Just another example of idiots at the wheel.
Now they buy those sets from whatever offshore source.........
>
>I won't even bundle them with B & D and Ryobi and such.. When you buy
>today's B & D, you KNOW it's crap...to put a name like PC on it, is
>downright misleading.
Makes me want to cry.
>
>Those $ 200K MBA's are doing a bang-up job, eh? " Look, boss, I saved
>us another 2 million by going to even cheaper plastic!!"
I can assure you those guys have never used a tool.
>
>No wonder that the more serious (professional) tool jockeys are
>spending extra for Festool. You just can't trust the other guys
>anymore.
See reference to crying above.
Frank
On Aug 4, 3:20=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 4, 10:34 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The 'cordless' feature would be kind of useless when mounted in some
> > kind of device, no?
>
> That was actually part of my own obtuse way of making my point. =A0I
> don't care who or what powers it, if I hold it and guide it in my hand
> while using it, to me it is a "hand tool".
>
(I forgot the 'tongue firmly planted in cheek' emoticon... izzit
something like 8^* ?)
I agree.
Stationary tools are tools to which you bring the piece that is being
worked on, a hand tool is a tool you take to the piece you're working
on.
Both are portable tools. Some more so than others. Some are movable
stationary tools. I would consider a stud-finder and a flashlight hand
tools, even though they're electrified. EEeeeelectrified!!!
But, I try not to pay too much attention to those who nit-pick at
semantics .. they're usually holed up in a basement with nothing else
to do...and never contribute anything worthwhile.
r
=3D0)
I would have to say it is caused by the big box stores. Here is my example.
I was looking for a wire feed welder. I was looking at the miller and
lincoln 135 amp welders. Lowes and Home D. around here. Friend of mine who
owns a machine shop said to stay away from them. To go to a welding
supplier. I asked "whats the difference besides price, both are 135 amp
welders from same companies. He said not the same units though. Looking
closer I found that the actual model numbers were different even though the
units were looked exactly the same. I will use the example of the Lincoln sp
135. the case was marked and looked identical only difference was the modle
number on the little tag. by going to lincolns web sight i found the sp 135
but had a hard time finding the modle number for the unit that lowes
carried. It didn't come up on any of thier product pages. I could only find
it by looking for parts for the exact model number of the lowes product.
Ended up that lincoln does not even advertise or show that model number
product in any of thier online or paper advertisements.
Looking closer at the lowes procuct and the weld shop products (price
difference of over 100 bucks) I found that the weld shop model that is
listed on the lincoln web site is like 20 pounds heavier. heavier windings
and other assoc. parts inside, including drive motors drive wheels etc. even
the guns were not the same.
Found out that the big box companies contact the manuafactures and tell them
they will sell thier product, as in I will sell the model sp135 unit but
this is what I will pay you for it. Build me a unit that you can make a
profit on. Hence, every thing is cheaper built and put in the same case.
warranties different, almost nill in the big box model.
A friend said he didnt see the difference, bought the big box model, I opted
for spending more on the welding supplier model. I use mine alot, have only
had one problem. a wire cam loose on the drive motor. lincoln fixed it at no
charge on a welder that gets used alot while my friends big box unit broke
at just over six months old. Lincoln would barely talk to him, He had a hard
time finding parts. He barely uses his and it has now found its way to the
scrap yard. Mine is still working great and is about 4 years old.
I have to throw blame at both the big box stores for asking the manuf. to
cheapen the products and also at the manuf. for even thinking about building
the product for the big box stores. If they are gonna build crap for them,
dont put your name on it, insist on puting the store name on it. let the
store take the hit for selling crap instead of tricking buyers into thinking
they are buying a quality product.
sorry bout the rant
Mike
"Phil Again" <notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
>> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like
>> they are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda
>> B&D'ish.
>>
>> {snip}
>
> IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
> large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
>
> So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, and/
> or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
>
> I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
>
> Phil
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:27:15 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>That bearded douche nozzle Billy Mays (sp?),
Uh, Mays is his middle name. His last name is Here, or Hear, or Hiere.
That's all I ever hear from him before I change the channel (or hit
the Mute). Billy Mays Here...
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
On Aug 5, 1:53=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "dpb" wrote
>
> > So, the fundamental greed is in the purchaser trying to get "more than
> > their money's worth"...
>
> > $0.02, ymmv, etc., etc., ...
>
> Agreed ... most tools these days appear to be targeting Harry Homeowner, =
who
> arguably watches way too much DIY reality TV, thus the bubble gum
> appearance/cheap construction.
=2E...and then *drumroll* the absolute WORST thing happens.... Some
clown buys the home-owner-cheap piece of shit and then <echo ON>
BECOMES A PROFESSIONAL!!!<echo OFF> and sells his services to the
neighbours.
<whispers> there is Joe, the true professional, getting his ass beat
by Joe The Clown, by $ 1500.00... he smirks, drives off, and knows who
the real idiot is...
On Aug 4, 10:34 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> The 'cordless' feature would be kind of useless when mounted in some
> kind of device, no?
That was actually part of my own obtuse way of making my point. I
don't care who or what powers it, if I hold it and guide it in my hand
while using it, to me it is a "hand tool".
But, to expand on my point since at least part of this thread is
concerned with accuracy of the typed word, one must remember the
battery powered miter saws that were around for a while. Made to be
partnered to the gas powered trim guns, the theory was that you drove
up on the job with all batteries charged and with your gas powered
guns no longer needed any kind of air lines or power cords. Less
hassle when arriving and leaving, and less equipment to maintain, and
clutter inside a smaller house.
To me, the cordless miter box is not a hand tool since you don't hold,
support it, or guide it in your hands during its use. But the gas gun
you shoot the trim on with is indeed a hand tool.
More importantly to me personally, a few years ago when my truck was
broken into and several tools were stolen, the insurance company
considered anything in the tool box a hand tool.
Drills, saws, etc., were all classified the same.
They were not interested in the semantics, current accepted usage, or
any neander driven arguments about the labels of the tools stolen.
In fact to be honest, they weren't concerned with my loss at all.
Robert
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:14:18 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Aug 2, 12:31 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Black and Decker is the large corporation that owns the above
>> mentioned brands.
>
>This is the high points of B&D's history, a la B&D.
>
>It gives an overview of their larger acquisitions, and the last
>paragraph is pretty interesting. I didn't know they owned DeVilbiss.
>Sadly, they don't list everything they own.
They own DAPC. That's DeVilbiss only in very small print. Part of the
agreement when the compressor part of the company was split from
DeVilbiss, the makers of high quality spray coating equipment.
Frank
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ywp8kk
>
>Ironically, searching around on this subject, it appears that B&D is
>actually a company with no centralized form of ownership itself. It
>is a "hive" that is so large and so diverse that there are many
>different investment companies such as Barclay's, Vanguard Funds,
>etc., that own large chunks of this behemoth, including a lot of stock
>in private hands.
>
>The tools they sell are nothing more than another page on the
>portfolio, right after microwaves, weedeaters, coffee makers, etc.
>
>Sad, indeed.
>
>Robert
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> And thinking of those goofy infomercials. Have you ever noticed how
> uncoordinated and spastic the performers are when using the traditional
> mop/hammer/steamer//what ever as a comparison to the new fangled gizmo
they
> are hawking?
Funny you mention that. I distinctly think of that when I see a Swiffer
commercial. The person using that regular dust brush is deliberately doing
it wrong to raise a dust cloud while the Swiffer person does it properly.
On Aug 5, 3:45=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> And thinking of those goofy infomercials. =A0Have you ever noticed how
> >> uncoordinated and spastic the performers are when using the traditiona=
l
> >> mop/hammer/steamer//what ever as a comparison to the new fangled gizmo
> > they
> >> are hawking?
>
> > Funny you mention that. I distinctly think of that when I see a Swiffer
> > commercial. The person using that regular dust brush is deliberately do=
ing
> > it wrong to raise a dust cloud while the Swiffer person does it properl=
y.
>
> That's exactly what I am talking about. =A0;~)
Commercials are misleading. I strapped on a couple of MaxiPads and i
STILL couldn't play tennis OR ride a horse...
On Aug 2, 4:52 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
Cool, Dude! With you around I feel like I have my own editor, fact
checker, and wife all in one shot! Thanks for the careful reread.
My comments were made in simple idle conversation with my Saturday
morning coffee, but once again I appreciate your efforts to bring my
meanderings up to the expected standards of this group.
> > A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D,
>
> Quite a trick for B&D to own "a great deal" of Hitachi, considering
> that Hitachi is about 20 times the size.
Our perspectives might be quite different. I had read somewhere that
B&D (sorry, no cite, but I am sure you will supply a "yeah" or "nay"
as needed!) had bought a stake in the tool arm of Hitachi America
which was (in my understanding) formed in order to manufacture and
distribute their current line of consumer tools.
It is perspective; for example (don't apply these to Hitachi/B&D when
you are looking the numbers up, I pulled them from the air for
purposed of illustration) if company X buys into a family member
company for 200 million, that may be a lot for the family member
company. If the parent company of the family member is worth a
trillion dollars, it isn't worth mentioning.
What B&D did do in 2002 was
> enter into a "cooperative business arrangement" with Hitachi. The
> current B&D annual report does not even contain the word "Hitachi".
Wouldn't argue that one. I have no doubt you have read all umpteen
thousand pages of the subsequent back up documents, so I believe you.
> Funny that if the reason is B&D ownership, Dewalt, Porter Cable, and
> Delta, all of which _are_ owned by Black and Decker, do not have
> similar "bizarro colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all
> over their tools".
I wonder... it is possible that they have resisted putting all that
stuff on DeWalt, PC, etc. because some still consider them
professional tools? Are you saying that if they are all owned by the
same company they should all look alike and not target specific
markets? My personal opinion (ha!) is that with today's tools, the
marketing department identifies the niche, and the tool, the design of
the tool including how and where it is made are all done with the
niche (dollar specific) in mind. You could be right, though. Other
forces could be at work.
> Incidentally, you are aware are you not that Skil is owned by Bosch,
> not Black and Decker, and that Bosch is a privately held company based
> in Germany?
No, am not aware, I am not, that Bosch is privately held. Bosch GmBH
is held by the Robert Bosch foundation, and <10% of the company is
held by the Bosch family. I am not trying to pick nits here, but I
didn't want you to fall into the same hole I did when I said "Hitachi"
and you took it to mean the entirety of Hitachi and all its
permutations and holdings.
I am guessing here, so feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong
(seriously... feel free! ;^) )
but I would think that you know that many of the Chinese manufacturers
of low end products are simply jobbers. They bid on jobs like I do.
I have a friend of a friend that gets a trade magazine from
manufacturers in China, and you can get anything you want made there
with your name on it.
Take a look at this, and go to the bottom of the page. http://tinyurl.com/5llmun
Any of that crap look familiar? No telling how many different brands
we know are made side by side on the same lines.
> You are aware, are you not, that those "low quality made in China"
> Craftsman hand tools are all stamped "Made in USA", not on a sticker
> but in the die?
Once again, I am not aware, I am not. I looked at my cordless drill
and it says "Made in China" on a decal. Same with the light, same
with the saw (bundle kit - $129). No die marks anywhere... I even
checked the charger. I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
purchased them there myself.
Makes me wonder. Now I am afraid to look at the rest of my tiny
Craftsman collection.
Still though, I wouldn't blame Sears for the rest of the manufacturers
making lousy tools, no matter where they are made.
I used a lot of really crappy tools and saw a whole lot more when the
venerated Rockwell tools decided (no, I don't know who did it or why)
to come up with a homeowner line. It was as bad as anything out
there, and the worst tools that I think (here's my opinion, no facts)
probably the worst tools mass manufactured (my definition of mass may
be different than yours!) in the USA for sale to the public.
Robert
On Aug 2, 12:31 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> Black and Decker is the large corporation that owns the above
> mentioned brands.
This is the high points of B&D's history, a la B&D.
It gives an overview of their larger acquisitions, and the last
paragraph is pretty interesting. I didn't know they owned DeVilbiss.
Sadly, they don't list everything they own.
http://tinyurl.com/ywp8kk
Ironically, searching around on this subject, it appears that B&D is
actually a company with no centralized form of ownership itself. It
is a "hive" that is so large and so diverse that there are many
different investment companies such as Barclay's, Vanguard Funds,
etc., that own large chunks of this behemoth, including a lot of stock
in private hands.
The tools they sell are nothing more than another page on the
portfolio, right after microwaves, weedeaters, coffee makers, etc.
Sad, indeed.
Robert
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:02:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Once again, I am not aware, I am not. I looked at my cordless drill
>> and it says "Made in China" on a decal. Same with the light, same
>> with the saw (bundle kit - $129). No die marks anywhere... I even
>> checked the charger. I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
>> purchased them there myself.
>
> He said hand tools, not power tools.
But the subject was power tools not hand tools.
On Aug 4, 11:40 am, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:44:40 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> > Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
>
> No.
>
> > Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
>
> Yes.
>
> A cordless drill is a power tool.
All of the eggbeater drills and breast drills I
have seen were cordless...
--
FF
On Aug 5, 2:19=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:a975efdc-cd7c-40dc-8ce5-7e51a4f6fcc1@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 5, 11:39 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Upscale" wrote
>
> >> > TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black
> beard
> >> > that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
>
> >> Me too ... I hit the next button when I see a black beard, or, in the
> case
> >> of Brittany, anything that vaguely resembles a black beard.
>
> > You sick bastard!
> > *tips hat*
>
> Hehe ... that was some ugly, wot?!
>
I'll say... *shudders*.
Just showtagoesya that I could never figure out what the infatuation
was with that trailertrash.
She was cute, as a Mouskateer, has nice straight teeth, (maybe a
reason for her to be popular in the UK) tits 'were' perky, she could
dance.
So can(could) dozens of others. The Paparazzi went nuts with that
bearded clam crotch shot..(wooopsies just an accident).
Sooooo, Swingman, your ability to remind me of that horrid moment on a
bad newsday was NOT appreciated. 'k?
Now I need some brain-bleach. (vodka)
*shudders one more time*
On Aug 4, 3:44=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 2, 9:22 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > He said hand tools, not power tools.
>
> Hmmmm...... last time I used my cordless drill, I used my hands to
> hold it and guide it. =A0Using the drill press, I cannot hold it and use
> it.
>
> When I use my circular saw, I hold it in my hands and guide it; my
> table saw stays in place and I can't move it.
>
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
>
> If my cordless drill is supposed to be mounted on in some device to
> make it stationary, or if it is not supposed to be held in my hands
> when I drill, drive screws, sand or polish with it, I need a diagram
> on its use as I have been using them the wrong way for years.
>
> Robert
The 'cordless' feature would be kind of useless when mounted in some
kind of device, no?
On Aug 2, 8:02=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 2, 4:52 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Cool, Dude! =A0With you around I feel like I have my own editor, fact
> checker, and wife all in one shot! =A0Thanks for the careful reread.
>
> My comments were made in simple idle conversation with my Saturday
> morning coffee, but once again I appreciate your efforts to bring my
> meanderings up to the expected standards of this group.
>
> > > A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D,
>
> > Quite a trick for B&D to own "a great deal" of Hitachi, considering
> > that Hitachi is about 20 times the size.
>
> Our perspectives might be quite different. =A0I had read somewhere that
> B&D (sorry, no cite, but I am sure you will supply a "yeah" or "nay"
> as needed!) had bought a stake in the tool arm of Hitachi America
> which was (in my understanding) formed in order to manufacture and
> distribute their current line of consumer tools.
>
> It is perspective; for example (don't apply these to Hitachi/B&D when
> you are looking the numbers up, I pulled them from the air for
> purposed of illustration) if company X buys into a family member
> company for 200 million, that may be a lot for the family member
> company. =A0If the parent company of the family member is worth a
> trillion dollars, it isn't worth mentioning.
>
> What B&D did do in 2002 was
>
> > enter into a "cooperative business arrangement" with Hitachi. =A0The
> > current B&D annual report does not even contain the word "Hitachi".
>
> Wouldn't argue that one. =A0I have no doubt you have read all umpteen
> thousand pages of the subsequent back up documents, so I believe you.
>
> > Funny that if the reason is B&D ownership, Dewalt, Porter Cable, and
> > Delta, all of which _are_ owned by Black and Decker, do not have
> > similar "bizarro colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all
> > over their tools".
>
> I wonder... it is possible that they have resisted putting all that
> stuff on DeWalt, PC, etc. because some still consider them
> professional tools? =A0Are you saying that if they are all owned by the
> same company they should all look alike and not target specific
> markets? =A0My personal opinion (ha!) is that with today's tools, the
> marketing department identifies the niche, and the tool, the design of
> the tool including how and where it is made are all done with the
> niche (dollar specific) in mind. =A0You could be right, though. =A0Other
> forces could be at work.
>
> > Incidentally, you are aware are you not that Skil is owned by Bosch,
> > not Black and Decker, and that Bosch is a privately held company based
> > in Germany?
>
> No, am not aware, I am not, that Bosch is privately held. =A0Bosch GmBH
> is held by the Robert Bosch foundation, and <10% of the company is
> held by the Bosch family. =A0I am not trying to pick nits here, but I
> didn't want you to fall into the same hole I did when I said "Hitachi"
> and you took it to mean the entirety of Hitachi and all its
> permutations and holdings.
>
> I am guessing here, so feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong
> (seriously... feel free! =A0;^) =A0)
> but I would think that you know that many of the Chinese manufacturers
> of low end products are simply jobbers. =A0They bid on jobs like I do.
> I have a friend of a friend that gets a trade magazine from
> manufacturers in China, and you can get anything you want made there
> with your name on it.
>
> Take a look at this, and go to the bottom of the page. =A0http://tinyurl.=
com/5llmun
>
> Any of that crap look familiar? =A0No telling how many different brands
> we know are made side by side on the same lines.
>
> > You are aware, are you not, that those "low quality made in China"
> > Craftsman hand tools are all stamped "Made in USA", not on a sticker
> > but in the die?
>
> Once again, I am not aware, I am not. =A0I looked at my cordless drill
> and it says "Made in China" on a decal. =A0Same with the light, same
> with the saw (bundle kit - $129). =A0No die marks anywhere... =A0I even
> checked the charger. =A0I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
> purchased them there myself.
>
> Makes me wonder. =A0Now I am afraid to look at the rest of my tiny
> Craftsman collection.
>
> Still though, I wouldn't blame Sears for the rest of the manufacturers
> making lousy tools, no matter where they are made.
>
> I used a lot of really crappy tools and saw a whole lot more when the
> venerated Rockwell tools decided (no, I don't know who did it or why)
> to come up with a homeowner line. =A0It was as bad as anything out
> there, and the worst tools that I think (here's my opinion, no facts)
> probably the worst tools mass manufactured (my definition of mass may
> be different than yours!) in the USA for sale to the public.
>
> Robert
You know what I find amazing, Robert, is that sudden realisation that
I had just yesterday whilst wandering through the Halls of Tooldom at
Home Depot.
First, a parallel to another line of products: DVD players. At first,
$ 1200.00. Then a hole range of players at $ 700.00... everybody
wanted a piece of Joe Consumer. Then, when the $ 700 units slowed down
in sales, the figured they had recouped enough of the investment and
they started dropping prices to leech out all the $ 400 buyers..then
down to $ 200, $ 50, $ 19.99... now they can't give the damned things
away because everybody has one. (Now, those slick MoFo's started an
'improved version of video disk so they're mostly obsolete anyway,
yadda, yadda)
Which raises the question: Doesn't (most) everybody already have a
jigsaw, cordless drill and such? What's with the 'end-of-aisle'
promotions by Makita, DeWalt, Ryobi...the list is endless, where you
can buy entire workshops in a bag for a couple of hundred dollars? Who
are they after? Are we at the almost total market saturation point
already? (The equivalent of the 19.99 DVD player WITHOUT an encore???)
That bearded douche nozzle Billy Mays (sp?), that MOST abrasive pitch-
dick, was selling a metal stick, with 2 prongs to be used as a weed
auger of some type...and wait!! There WAS more...a FREE rechargeable
drill!!! $ 19.99!! They are now throwing the fucking things away!!
Nobody wants them, and nobody cares.
Maybe the next incarnation of the cordless drill is one that drill
more than one hole at the time, hell, it worked for Shick and Gilette!
Cheaper, better faster... and once Joe consumer buys that crappy 25
dollar sander......guess what? He's OFF the market for that $ 50,00
sander that might actually DO what he bought the 25 dollar one for.
<grammar alert>
Yes indeed, by selling him a piece of shit, you have just eliminated
one of your customers.
Smart, huh?
On Aug 4, 10:50 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> There's one in every crowd :-).
>
> I should have seen that coming, as I have a small collection of push
> drills :-).
Woodwerkin' just gets harder and harder..
;^)
Robert
On Aug 2, 9:22 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> He said hand tools, not power tools.
Hmmmm...... last time I used my cordless drill, I used my hands to
hold it and guide it. Using the drill press, I cannot hold it and use
it.
When I use my circular saw, I hold it in my hands and guide it; my
table saw stays in place and I can't move it.
Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
If my cordless drill is supposed to be mounted on in some device to
make it stationary, or if it is not supposed to be held in my hands
when I drill, drive screws, sand or polish with it, I need a diagram
on its use as I have been using them the wrong way for years.
Robert
[email protected] wrote:
[snip]
I have to agree with Robatoy on this one. Indeed one piece of shit
eliminates one of your customers for a better model AND one of your
competitors better models. We are fast approaching the kitchen
appliance model for manufacturers where there are just a few
manufacturers of, for example, dishwashers. There are still many brands
available, just not much difference between them. So instead of paying
for a premium brand, look for the manufacturer and buy a less expensive
similar model.
On that note, I do live in the boondocks. Does Skil now own Bosch? The
other way around? Inquiring dicks want to know.
snort and humbug,
jo4hn
> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like
> they are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda
> B&D'ish.
>
> {snip}
IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, and/
or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
Phil
I suppose you noticed that the tool line is for
Lowes Home Centers "only". Lowes is forver
coming up with the "bargin basement tool lines.
They are cheap and don't last long.
I'm not sure who goes after who, but the Hitachi
switch over has not proven to be a success and
now this fall, I bet you see another vendor.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:31 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Black and Decker is the large corporation that owns the above
>> mentioned brands.
>
> This is the high points of B&D's history, a la B&D.
>
> It gives an overview of their larger acquisitions, and the last
> paragraph is pretty interesting. I didn't know they owned DeVilbiss.
> Sadly, they don't list everything they own.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ywp8kk
>
> Ironically, searching around on this subject, it appears that B&D is
> actually a company with no centralized form of ownership itself. It
> is a "hive" that is so large and so diverse that there are many
> different investment companies such as Barclay's, Vanguard Funds,
> etc., that own large chunks of this behemoth, including a lot of stock
> in private hands.
>
> The tools they sell are nothing more than another page on the
> portfolio, right after microwaves, weedeaters, coffee makers, etc.
>
> Sad, indeed.
>
> Robert
I'm wondering if there is room for a new company that truly makes the best
tools made in all categories, sadly probably not. Guess this is called
progress. Can't imagine what tools will be available in 20 years.
Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.co.nr/
"Brent Beal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
>> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they
>> are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
>>
>> And you expected PC to improve after being acquired by B & D????
No, I thought it take a bit longer to lower the quality.
Leon wrote:
> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
> color
> coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they are
> leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
>
>
>
> For less than $160 you can get an 18v combo kit including a Drill/Driver,
> Circle saw, Recip saw, and Flash light.
>
> Or, a 120 volt 13amp circular saw with laser for $59.99.
>
>
>
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/content/binary/PCPrices.pdf
>
>
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com:80/editorsblog/New+Tools+From+Porter+Cable.aspx
It's funny and I knew it would happen, I even called PC back when B&D bought
them and had a hell of a time finding someone to talk to about my concerns.
He assured me they were separate identities and PC would only improve
towards the professionals. I told him I was not convinced. I also let him
know how many tools I had and what percentage were PC and the story of my
14.4 drill/driver which has been going strong for 7 years with only battery
replacements.
I remember all to well what AMC did to Harley Davidson. Hopefully PC will
get the same message and grab it back from B&D shit.
Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
"Phil Again" <notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
>> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like
>> they are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda
>> B&D'ish.
>>
>> {snip}
>
> IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
> large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
B&D basically owns them all, B&D and DeWalt have been linked together since
at least the 70's.
>
> So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, and/
> or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
IIRC Milwaukee was bought some years ago, already many of their tools come
from the East.
On Aug 2, 12:24 pm, Phil Again <notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam> wrote:
> >So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools,
It was bought about three years ago by an investment group named TTI.
Until that time, there was no such animal as a Chiawanese Milwaukee
tool. TTI owns several brand names of tools, and in some cases acts a
jobber/manufacturer for other different companies.
> >or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D, hence the bizarro
colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all over their tools
these days. I think at this time (not sure, no cite) that most
Hitachi and Skil tools come off the same Chinese production lines.
> >I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
Sorry, it happened long before that. I know it is popular to bitch
slap Sears as an easy target, but this all started well before Sears
started reducing the quality of their own branded products.
Robert
On Aug 5, 11:39=A0am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Upscale" wrote
>
> > TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black bear=
d
> > that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
>
> Me too ... I hit the next button when I see a black beard, or, in the cas=
e
> of Brittany, anything that vaguely resembles a black beard.
>
You sick bastard!
*tips hat*
r
On Aug 2, 6:25=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Phil Again" <notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> >> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. =A0Then they starte=
d
> >> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. =A0Looks like
> >> they are leading PC sown that same path. =A0The tools even look kinda
> >> B&D'ish.
>
> >> =A0{snip}
>
> > IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
> > large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
>
> B&D basically owns them all, =A0B&D and DeWalt have been linked together =
since
> at least the 70's.
>
>
>
> > So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, an=
d/
> > or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
>
> IIRC Milwaukee was bought some years ago, already many of their tools com=
e
> from the East.
It all started with B & D buying ELU. I liked Elu tools. (At least in
their day, they worked for guys like me.) We went to hell after that.
On Aug 2, 8:38=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. =A0Then they started c=
olor
> coding their power tools into cheaper built units. =A0Looks like they are
> leading PC sown that same path. =A0The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
>
> For less than $160 you can get an 18v combo kit including a Drill/Driver,
> Circle saw, Recip saw, and Flash light.
>
> Or, a 120 volt 13amp circular saw with laser for $59.99.
>
> http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/content/binary/PCPric...
>
> http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com:80/editorsblog/New+Tools+From+Por...
Yup! And another one gone, another bites the dust.....
I already am well aware of PC having done the moonwalk for a while.
Their production routers used to last me a few (as much as 8) years,
then the later ones they were dead in (max) 2 years. Bearings. That
all happened when the motors became too small to fit in the older
bases. Crap. Just another example of idiots at the wheel.
I won't even bundle them with B & D and Ryobi and such.. When you buy
today's B & D, you KNOW it's crap...to put a name like PC on it, is
downright misleading.
Those $ 200K MBA's are doing a bang-up job, eh? " Look, boss, I saved
us another 2 million by going to even cheaper plastic!!"
No wonder that the more serious (professional) tool jockeys are
spending extra for Festool. You just can't trust the other guys
anymore.
On Aug 5, 12:50=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 4, 10:50 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > There's one in every crowd :-).
>
> > I should have seen that coming, as I have a small collection of push
> > drills :-).
>
> Woodwerkin' just gets harder and harder..
>
> =A0 ;^)
>
> Robert
Nobody can look me in the eye and tell me that a 20-pound sledgehammer
is NOT a 'power tool'.
:>}
On Aug 5, 9:55=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 5, 8:18 am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Nobody can look me in the eye and tell me that a 20-pound sledgehammer
> > is NOT a 'power tool'.
>
> > :>}
>
> Ha! =A0Amen!
>
> And so versatile, too. =A0I am wondering why we haven't seen Billy Mays
> Here selling them for something.
>
> Robert
"Hello Billy Mays Here here."
"Ever seen a tool this versatile? Turn one brick into two small ones
with enough material left over to decorate your garden?"
" A tool so versatile. you can crushhhh a pop can in one simple
action!" "Save on recyclable storage space."
"Trouble opening this CD package?" "Try our new SMAKKUM tool."
"Handcrafted by decedents of Thor in our new Norwegian foundry."
"SMAKKUM" " Order today and we'll include this free hernia kit"
"Here's how to order..............."
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> "Hello Billy Mays Here here."
> "Ever seen a tool this versatile? Turn one brick into two small ones
> with enough material left over to decorate your garden?"
> " A tool so versatile. you can crushhhh a pop can in one simple
> action!" "Save on recyclable storage space."
> "Trouble opening this CD package?" "Try our new SMAKKUM tool."
> "Handcrafted by decedents of Thor in our new Norwegian foundry."
> "SMAKKUM" " Order today and we'll include this free hernia kit"
> "Here's how to order..............."
I don't recognize the name Billy Mays because my ears auto-shut-off when a
TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black beard
that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
On Aug 5, 10:22=A0am, "Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" =A0wrote
>
> "Hello Billy Mays Here here."
> "Ever seen a tool this versatile? Turn one brick into two small ones
> with enough material left over to decorate your garden?"
> " A tool so versatile. you can crushhhh a pop can in one simple
> action!" "Save on recyclable =A0storage space."
> "Trouble opening this CD package?" "Try our new SMAKKUM tool."
> "Handcrafted by decedents of Thor in our new Norwegian foundry."
> "SMAKKUM" " Order today and we'll include this free hernia kit"
> "Here's how to order..............."
>
> Shades of Gallagher's "sledgematic".
Shades of Flintstone's BamBam?
"dpb" wrote
> So, the fundamental greed is in the purchaser trying to get "more than
> their money's worth"...
>
> $0.02, ymmv, etc., etc., ...
Agreed ... most tools these days appear to be targeting Harry Homeowner, who
arguably watches way too much DIY reality TV, thus the bubble gum
appearance/cheap construction.
Whenever I let one of my neighbors try one of my tools, like my handbuilt
Italian pin nailer, their eyes light up ... but only momentarily, to be
immediately extinguished upon the answer to "How much did this thing cost?".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:24 pm, Phil Again <notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam>
> wrote:
>
>>> So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee
>>> tools,
>
> It was bought about three years ago by an investment group named
> TTI.
> Until that time, there was no such animal as a Chiawanese Milwaukee
> tool. TTI owns several brand names of tools, and in some cases acts
> a
> jobber/manufacturer for other different companies.
>
>>> or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
>
> A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D,
Quite a trick for B&D to own "a great deal" of Hitachi, considering
that Hitachi is about 20 times the size. What B&D did do in 2002 was
enter into a "cooperative business arrangement" with Hitachi. The
current B&D annual report does not even contain the word "Hitachi".
> hence the bizarro
> colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all over their tools
> these days.
Funny that if the reason is B&D ownership, Dewalt, Porter Cable, and
Delta, all of which _are_ owned by Black and Decker, do not have
similar "bizarro colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all
over their tools".
> I think at this time (not sure, no cite) that most
> Hitachi and Skil tools come off the same Chinese production lines.
Regardless of the brand, the Japanese produce a surprising amount of
stuff in China. But unlike American manufacturers seeking to have
stuff made over there, the Japanese know how to get results out of
recalcitrant Chinese.
Incidentally, you are aware are you not that Skil is owned by Bosch,
not Black and Decker, and that Bosch is a privately held company based
in Germany?
>>> I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
>
> Sorry, it happened long before that. I know it is popular to bitch
> slap Sears as an easy target, but this all started well before Sears
> started reducing the quality of their own branded products.
You are aware, are you not, that those "low quality made in China"
Craftsman hand tools are all stamped "Made in USA", not on a sticker
but in the die?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 2, 12:31 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Black and Decker is the large corporation that owns the above
>> mentioned brands.
>
> This is the high points of B&D's history, a la B&D.
>
> It gives an overview of their larger acquisitions, and the last
> paragraph is pretty interesting. I didn't know they owned
> DeVilbiss.
> Sadly, they don't list everything they own.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ywp8kk
>
> Ironically, searching around on this subject, it appears that B&D is
> actually a company with no centralized form of ownership itself. It
> is a "hive" that is so large and so diverse that there are many
> different investment companies such as Barclay's, Vanguard Funds,
> etc., that own large chunks of this behemoth, including a lot of
> stock
> in private hands.
This is the nature of publicly traded companies. You'll find that the
same is true for IBM and GM and any other big company that is listed
on the stock exchanges. If you want a piece of it all you have to do
is call your broker and pay the price, currently about 60 bucks a
share.
> The tools they sell are nothing more than another page on the
> portfolio, right after microwaves, weedeaters, coffee makers, etc.
This is also true for Bosch, which is privately held. Most of their
income comes from auto parts, not tools.
> Sad, indeed.
>
> Robert
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
jo4hn wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> [snip]
>
> I have to agree with Robatoy on this one. Indeed one piece of shit
> eliminates one of your customers for a better model AND one of your
> competitors better models. We are fast approaching the kitchen
> appliance model for manufacturers where there are just a few
> manufacturers of, for example, dishwashers. There are still many
> brands available, just not much difference between them. So instead
> of paying for a premium brand, look for the manufacturer and buy a
> less expensive similar model.
>
> On that note, I do live in the boondocks. Does Skil now own Bosch?
> The other way around? Inquiring dicks want to know.
Bosch is another huge company, like Hitachi, whose major business is
_not_ power tools. Bosch bought out Skil in 1996. That does not mean
that a Skil jigsaw is the same inside as a Bosch.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 2, 9:22 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> He said hand tools, not power tools.
>
> Hmmmm...... last time I used my cordless drill, I used my hands to
> hold it and guide it. Using the drill press, I cannot hold it and
> use
> it.
>
> When I use my circular saw, I hold it in my hands and guide it; my
> table saw stays in place and I can't move it.
>
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
>
> If my cordless drill is supposed to be mounted on in some device to
> make it stationary, or if it is not supposed to be held in my hands
> when I drill, drive screws, sand or polish with it, I need a diagram
> on its use as I have been using them the wrong way for years.
If the power doesn't come from your muscles it's not a "hand tool".
A cordless drill or a circular saw is a "portable power tool", not a
"hand tool".
At least if you're looking them up in a tool catalog that's how you're
going to find them organized.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Michael Briggs wrote:
> It all boils down to GREED!
>
> both the big box stores for insisting on supplying crap at bargain basement
> prices and the manufacture for building the crap so they can make an extra
> buck by selling more units!
Except you've got the root cause turned around -- if folks weren't
buying almost solely based on purchase cost, the cheapest wouldn't
necessarily win.
So, the fundamental greed is in the purchaser trying to get "more than
their money's worth"...
$0.02, ymmv, etc., etc., ...
--
jo4hn wrote:
> LRod wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:27:15 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> That bearded douche nozzle Billy Mays (sp?),
>>
>> Uh, Mays is his middle name. His last name is Here, or Hear, or Hiere.
>>
>> That's all I ever hear from him before I change the channel (or hit
>> the Mute). Billy Mays Here...
>>
Yeah, but it's more like, "BILLY MAYS HERE! ..."
>>
>>
> chortle.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they
> are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
>
> And you expected PC to improve after being acquired by B & D????
"Robatoy" wrote
"Hello Billy Mays Here here."
"Ever seen a tool this versatile? Turn one brick into two small ones
with enough material left over to decorate your garden?"
" A tool so versatile. you can crushhhh a pop can in one simple
action!" "Save on recyclable storage space."
"Trouble opening this CD package?" "Try our new SMAKKUM tool."
"Handcrafted by decedents of Thor in our new Norwegian foundry."
"SMAKKUM" " Order today and we'll include this free hernia kit"
"Here's how to order..............."
Shades of Gallagher's "sledgematic".
LRod wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:27:15 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> That bearded douche nozzle Billy Mays (sp?),
>
> Uh, Mays is his middle name. His last name is Here, or Hear, or Hiere.
>
> That's all I ever hear from him before I change the channel (or hit
> the Mute). Billy Mays Here...
>
>
>
chortle.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> And thinking of those goofy infomercials. Have you ever noticed how
>> uncoordinated and spastic the performers are when using the traditional
>> mop/hammer/steamer//what ever as a comparison to the new fangled gizmo
> they
>> are hawking?
>
> Funny you mention that. I distinctly think of that when I see a Swiffer
> commercial. The person using that regular dust brush is deliberately doing
> it wrong to raise a dust cloud while the Swiffer person does it properly.
>
>
That's exactly what I am talking about. ;~)
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 21:04:37 +0000, evodawg wrote:
> I'm wondering if there is room for a new company that truly makes the best
> tools made in all categories, sadly probably not. Guess this is called
> progress. Can't imagine what tools will be available in 20 years.
Steel City tools seem to be pretty good. Not up to Festool quality, but
neither are their prices.
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:02:01 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> Once again, I am not aware, I am not. I looked at my cordless drill
> and it says "Made in China" on a decal. Same with the light, same
> with the saw (bundle kit - $129). No die marks anywhere... I even
> checked the charger. I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
> purchased them there myself.
He said hand tools, not power tools.
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:44:40 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
No.
> Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
Yes.
A cordless drill is a power tool. Planes, chisels, scrapers, hammers,
etc. are hand tools. The definition of hand tools has always excluded
anything with a motor.
I'll admit that language changes over time, but I'm not ready to change
that definition yet :-).
On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:46:18 -0700, Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>> > Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> A cordless drill is a power tool.
>
> All of the eggbeater drills and breast drills I
> have seen were cordless...
There's one in every crowd :-).
I should have seen that coming, as I have a small collection of push
drills :-).
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 12:24:10 -0500, Phil Again
<notwantspam_@_1-2-3-4-5.nospam> wrote:
>
>> About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started
>> color coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like
>> they are leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda
>> B&D'ish.
>>
>> {snip}
>
>IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
>large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
Black and Decker is the large corporation that owns the above
mentioned brands.
>
>So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, and/
>or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
>
>I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
>
>Phil
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> "Hello Billy Mays Here here."
>> "Ever seen a tool this versatile? Turn one brick into two small ones
>> with enough material left over to decorate your garden?"
>> " A tool so versatile. you can crushhhh a pop can in one simple
>> action!" "Save on recyclable storage space."
>> "Trouble opening this CD package?" "Try our new SMAKKUM tool."
>> "Handcrafted by decedents of Thor in our new Norwegian foundry."
>> "SMAKKUM" " Order today and we'll include this free hernia kit"
>> "Here's how to order..............."
>
> I don't recognize the name Billy Mays because my ears auto-shut-off when a
> TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black beard
> that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
>
>
Tha'd be him!
And thinking of those goofy infomercials. Have you ever noticed how
uncoordinated and spastic the performers are when using the traditional
mop/hammer/steamer//what ever as a comparison to the new fangled gizmo they
are hawking?
"Robatoy" wrote
> Yup! And another one gone, another bites the dust.....
> I already am well aware of PC having done the moonwalk for a while.
> Their production routers used to last me a few (as much as 8) years,
> then the later ones they were dead in (max) 2 years. Bearings. That
> all happened when the motors became too small to fit in the older
> bases.
Yep ... Last PC router I bought was PC plunge model circa 2005 ... POS, with
more plastic on it than Pamela Anderson. I have to use wrenches for setup
because all the plastic knobs/parts broke.
Hardly worth the fire sale price I paid for it ... at a garage sale!
> Crap. Just another example of idiots at the wheel.
... and another example of what they KNOW an idiot public will accept!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a975efdc-cd7c-40dc-8ce5-7e51a4f6fcc1@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 5, 11:39 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Upscale" wrote
>
>> > TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black
beard
>> > that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
>
>> Me too ... I hit the next button when I see a black beard, or, in the
case
>> of Brittany, anything that vaguely resembles a black beard.
>
> You sick bastard!
> *tips hat*
Hehe ... that was some ugly, wot?!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Upscale" wrote
> TV ad appears, but I'm willing to bet it's that guy with the black beard
> that I see hawking the Oxyclean.
Me too ... I hit the next button when I see a black beard, or, in the case
of Brittany, anything that vaguely resembles a black beard.
Yeeech!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)