It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
another idea on this?
Also, what to use for sheathing? Zip system? Exterior ply and paint it
black? Extira? Pressure treated ply? Remember that it's going to be
fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
when the warm weather returns.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
> construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
> planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
> register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
> building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
>
> The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
> barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
> to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
>
> Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
> and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
> through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
> another idea on this?
>
> Also, what to use for sheathing? Zip system? Exterior ply and paint it
> black? Extira? Pressure treated ply? Remember that it's going to be
> fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
> and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
>
> Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
> leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
> the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
>
> Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
> when the warm weather returns.
Being a couple of centuries old would make me question the structural
integrity of the poles and the necessity of reinforcing them .
If you sheath you'll be adding weight to the frame.
Don't paint the sheathing, #30 felt paper it.
Dave in Houston
On 10/22/2010 7:56 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
> leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
> the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
Is it worth enough to you to get some professional advice from barn
restoration experts?
I'm of the same opinion as Dave ... structural integrity must be the
first step. Anything else and you're effectively wasting effort, time
and money.
On a barn of this age, it's apparent historical significance (older than
the country, that's really saying something!) could give it considerable
value in the future providing it's handled properly in the present.
There are plenty of outfits in the NE that specialize in barn
restoration. If the answer to the question above is "yes", I would
consider paying from some "expert" consultation ... and not from the
local builder/remodeler. ;)
There may be an architect, or organization in the area with an active
interest in offering advice on properly preserving this kind of heritage.
Just my tuppence ... FWIW
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
J. Clarke wrote:
> It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
> construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
> planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
> register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
> building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
>
> The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
> barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
> to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
>
> Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
> and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
> through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
> another idea on this?
>
> Also, what to use for sheathing? Zip system? Exterior ply and paint it
> black? Extira? Pressure treated ply? Remember that it's going to be
> fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
> and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
>
> Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
> leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
> the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
>
> Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
> when the warm weather returns.
>
What about covering the gaps with equal width battens, wide enough to
cover the largest gap, attached from either the inside or the outside?
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Interior frame it with insulation and a wall to hang things on.
It requires a better weather break and then some Tyvek or other exterior
breathing material to keep the insulation dry and yet breathe to ventilate
the internal framing from moisture buildup.
BTW: Tyvek is not good for UV. It melts the micro holes and seals the layer
and loses it's properties.
Looks like you will be doing two wall$$.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
another idea on this?
Also, what to use for sheathing? Zip system? Exterior ply and paint it
black? Extira? Pressure treated ply? Remember that it's going to be
fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
when the warm weather returns.
In article <b969ae14-2bf5-4bd6-b1fe-fde5ebb84fd3
@n26g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> What a wonderful project!
>
> I'd add some points to what others have said.
>
> If you pull off the existing siding, you will wreck a lot of it
> getting nails etc out. If the wood has truly sat out in the sun, wind
> and wet for 230 years, it's going to be fragile. And if you break it,
> what will you put in its place? I suggest you only make the minimum
> of necessary repairs.
>
> Even on new houses, siding is NOT waterproof. It's a rain screen,
> driving rain is slowed down, the rain water runs down the face of the
> siding to the ground. Some gets in through the cracks, and runs down
> the back of the siding. When the sun comes out, it vaporizes and
> comes out through all the cracks and joints in the siding. So, trying
> to tjightly fit battens, make the siding waterproof etc is
> unnecessary. And since the siding moves a lot from hot/cold and wet/
> dry weather cycles, any sealing you do is going to work loose. That's
> why there is a weather barrier behind all siding.
>
> Without seeing what you have, I like the idea of building a wall
> inside the existing wall with an open air space in between. You
> should be able to hang it on the existing structure. I wouldn't worry
> about the extra weight, stud framed walls don't weigh much compared to
> roof loads. If you use standard sheathing and put black roofing felt
> weather proof membrane on the outside face of the wall, and leave the
> existing wall as it is you should be good to go. You could add
> insulation on the inside of the inside wall if you need it. What will
> then happen is that water WILL come in through the old siding, but if
> you haven't closed it up, it WILL run right out again at the bottom,
> and as soon as the sun comes out the dampness inside the wall will
> evaporate out through the cracks. No trapped moisture, and no
> moisture or wind inside the structure.
>
> You will have to be a bit creative getting doors and windows framed
> into the new wall so that they don't trap moisture. And getting new
> doors and windows that complement the old structure will be
> interesting.
>
> I would definitely have a professional builder evaluate the structural
> integrity of the building, looking for rot, bad connections etc. Some
> of those heavy timber framing connections can hide a lot of problems.
> If you are not adding structural loads to the frame, it will only have
> to support snow and wind loads, and since it's been load tested for a
> long time, it should be adequate if the structure hasn't
> deteriorated.
>
> You will probably find that the foundation is rocks in a trench, maybe
> not even mortared in place. Again, if it has stood there this long,
> it will continue. The building has surely settled and twisted over
> its life, I'd resist the temptation to level it out, unless it is just
> unusable. A sudden reversal of the shape that the building has
> settled into over the years can have unexpected effects.
>
> Again I'd find someone in the area who has done something like this
> and ask lots of questions. If you have to come back several times
> bring a case of beer or box of donuts with you. They will be gladder
> to see you.
>
> Good Luck, have fun!
Well, found an approach today that won't do violence to the history of
the barn. Noticed that one side doesn't have light coming through much
of it. Turns out that that side was double-planked--not sure how long
ago though.
I do need to thoroughly inspect the structure at some point--there are
clearly a few pieces missing and others that were broken and not
repaired properly that will have to be seen to.
>
> Old Guy
>
>
>
> On Oct 22, 7:56 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
> > construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
> > planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
> > register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
> > building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
> >
> > The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
> > barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
> > to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
> >
> > Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
> > and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
> > through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
> > another idea on this?
> >
> > Also, what to use for sheathing? Zip system? Exterior ply and paint it
> > black? Extira? Pressure treated ply? Remember that it's going to be
> > fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
> > and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
> >
> > Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
> > leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
> > the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
> >
> > Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
> > when the warm weather returns.
What a wonderful project!
I'd add some points to what others have said.
If you pull off the existing siding, you will wreck a lot of it
getting nails etc out. If the wood has truly sat out in the sun, wind
and wet for 230 years, it's going to be fragile. And if you break it,
what will you put in its place? I suggest you only make the minimum
of necessary repairs.
Even on new houses, siding is NOT waterproof. It's a rain screen,
driving rain is slowed down, the rain water runs down the face of the
siding to the ground. Some gets in through the cracks, and runs down
the back of the siding. When the sun comes out, it vaporizes and
comes out through all the cracks and joints in the siding. So, trying
to tjightly fit battens, make the siding waterproof etc is
unnecessary. And since the siding moves a lot from hot/cold and wet/
dry weather cycles, any sealing you do is going to work loose. That's
why there is a weather barrier behind all siding.
Without seeing what you have, I like the idea of building a wall
inside the existing wall with an open air space in between. You
should be able to hang it on the existing structure. I wouldn't worry
about the extra weight, stud framed walls don't weigh much compared to
roof loads. If you use standard sheathing and put black roofing felt
weather proof membrane on the outside face of the wall, and leave the
existing wall as it is you should be good to go. You could add
insulation on the inside of the inside wall if you need it. What will
then happen is that water WILL come in through the old siding, but if
you haven't closed it up, it WILL run right out again at the bottom,
and as soon as the sun comes out the dampness inside the wall will
evaporate out through the cracks. No trapped moisture, and no
moisture or wind inside the structure.
You will have to be a bit creative getting doors and windows framed
into the new wall so that they don't trap moisture. And getting new
doors and windows that complement the old structure will be
interesting.
I would definitely have a professional builder evaluate the structural
integrity of the building, looking for rot, bad connections etc. Some
of those heavy timber framing connections can hide a lot of problems.
If you are not adding structural loads to the frame, it will only have
to support snow and wind loads, and since it's been load tested for a
long time, it should be adequate if the structure hasn't
deteriorated.
You will probably find that the foundation is rocks in a trench, maybe
not even mortared in place. Again, if it has stood there this long,
it will continue. The building has surely settled and twisted over
its life, I'd resist the temptation to level it out, unless it is just
unusable. A sudden reversal of the shape that the building has
settled into over the years can have unexpected effects.
Again I'd find someone in the area who has done something like this
and ask lots of questions. If you have to come back several times
bring a case of beer or box of donuts with you. They will be gladder
to see you.
Good Luck, have fun!
Old Guy
On Oct 22, 7:56=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). =A0Pole and bea=
m
> construction with vertical plank sheathing. =A0There's a gap between the
> planks and most of them have knotholes. =A0No historical district,
> register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
> building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered. =A0
>
> The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
> barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. =A0It's going
> to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
>
> Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
> and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
> through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. =A0Anyone have
> another idea on this?
>
> Also, what to use for sheathing? =A0Zip system? =A0Exterior ply and paint=
it
> black? =A0Extira? =A0Pressure treated ply? =A0Remember that it's going to=
be
> fairly well protected from sun but it's still going to be getting rain
> and snow through those gaps and knotholes.
>
> Or should I, when I pull the planks, plug the knotholes from behind
> leaving just enough edge for show, mill the edges for battens to fill
> the gaps, and then just put zip system or whatever behind it?
>
> Not gonna start on it until Spring regardless but want to be ready to go
> when the warm weather returns.
J. Clarke wrote:
> It's an old barn, (I mean _real_ old, older than the US). Pole and beam
> construction with vertical plank sheathing. There's a gap between the
> planks and most of them have knotholes. No historical district,
> register of historical places, or other restrictions except the normal
> building codes, under which the barn is grandfathered.
>
> The desired result is to more or less maintain the appearance of the
> barn inside and out but have it weather- and critter-tight. It's going
> to be used for a garage, workshop, and storage, not living space.
>
> Seems to me that the planks have to come off, sheathing has to go up,
> and then the planks have to go back, furred out so that rain coming
> through those gaps and knotholes doesn't get trapped. Anyone have
> another idea on this?
...
Agree w/ other posters first...
How big is it?
Are you aware of the National Barn Project at Smithsonian?
There are certain (fairly small but might as well know about them) tax
breaks for some types of restoration.
Rather than what you're proposing, my first thought for actually
building a tight facility given the starting point would be to
essentially build a building inside the current frame/siding and simply
stabilize the existing work. Trying to take an old barn of that age and
actually make it into a building such as you describe is, imo, a lost
cause unless simply want to start w/ a new structure and then use the
exterior material as siding.
There's unlikely to be adequate foundation, the aforementioned issues w/
poles, etc., etc., etc., ...
Pictures would be nice... :)
--