"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:191120040833444167%[email protected]...
>
>> Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You
>> might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that
>> you
>> will finish in half the time.
>>
>>
> Hmmm...guess I'm basically cheap.
>
> Still, I'm talking finish sanding - 220. When these H&L sheets don't
> stick, there still seems to be a lot of grit left on them.
I am especially talking finish sanding. Yeah there is a lot of grit left
but compared to the new unused paper it can be quite dull. I go by the feel
of the paper and by the appearance. I actually start to see the paper start
to change form the white coating color to the paper backing color.
Seriousely once a piece of paper dulls you are basically doing little in the
way of sanding compared to a new piece of paper.
> You actually only get 8 minutes of sanding from 1 sheet?
Not 1 sheet, 1 piece on the sander. While that does not seem like a long
time I can probably sand a project in 1/3 to 1/2 the time by changing out
the paper when it gets dull. Now if you like standing there sanding,,,,
;~)
>
> Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Probably. I think you will be plesantly suprised at how much faster a new
sheet will sand over one that has been working for 8 or 9 minutues. I do
not have a dust collector on either of my sanders and can easily visually
tell by the amount of dust being blown away by my fan how much more
effecient a new piece of paper is over the one I have been using. I know
that changing H&L that often may feel costly, that is why I use PSA over H&
L.
> Thanks.
>
> Lou
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52...
>> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
>> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
> 3
>
> I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I use.
I hate it when you degrade me Leon <smile>
SH - The "I admit using H&L" (amatuer) woodworker
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52...
>>>> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
>>>> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>>> 3
>>>
>>> I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I
>>> use.
>>
>> I hate it when you degrade me Leon <smile>
>> SH - The "I admit using H&L" (amatuer) woodworker
>
> Not meaning to degrade or put down Slowhand. ;~) If you never changed
> grits on a sander you would probably switch to PSA also. It makes good
> sense to use H&L if you do not wear the paper out before changing grits.
I used to use psa. I do change grits alot and that is precisely the reason
I changed to H&L. Works for me! Although I've never had a pad wear out
before the sander did. <shrug>
SH
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I used to use psa. I do change grits alot and that is precisely the
>> reason I changed to H&L. Works for me! Although I've never had a pad
>> wear out before the sander did. <shrug>
>> SH
>
>
> I have had the PC right angle ROS since 1989 and am on my 3rd PSA pad.
My 1992 dewalt 5" ros motor died about 5 mos ago. Same h&l pad.
SH
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <181120041953336426%[email protected]>,
> loutent <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
>> then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
>> "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
>> sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
>> anyway.
>>
>> I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all
>> local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
>
> I narrowed the problem down, as you suspect, to the quality of the H&L
> material on the paper. I was buying Norton boxes from the Borg and even
> had the paper frisbee off the sander on occassion. Once I switched to
> Mirka H&L disks, I've had zero problems. The Mirka disks are held very
> securely with the same sander pad, so it's obvious to me it was a
> material quality issue with the Nortons.
Uh oh. I use norton from the borg also. So far no problems.
SH
I have never been able so solve this problem with my H&L 333 PC sander.
I even bought a new pad, but the problem persists.
When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
"stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
anyway.
I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all
local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
Frustrated for years with this!
Does anyone have a real solution (or maybe there is none).
Lou
In article <l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52>, rj <[email protected]>
wrote:
> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander? Mine's
> coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>
> TIA
> RJ
>
>
> Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You
> might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that you
> will finish in half the time.
>
>
Hmmm...guess I'm basically cheap.
Still, I'm talking finish sanding - 220. When these H&L sheets don't
stick, there still seems to be a lot of grit left on them.
You actually only get 8 minutes of sanding from 1 sheet?
Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Thanks.
Lou
"Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I used to use psa. I do change grits alot and that is precisely the
> reason I changed to H&L. Works for me! Although I've never had a pad
> wear out before the sander did. <shrug>
> SH
I have had the PC right angle ROS since 1989 and am on my 3rd PSA pad.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 08:33:44 -0500, loutent <[email protected]> calmly
ranted:
>
>> Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You
>> might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that you
>> will finish in half the time.
>>
>>
>Hmmm...guess I'm basically cheap.
>
>Still, I'm talking finish sanding - 220. When these H&L sheets don't
>stick, there still seems to be a lot of grit left on them.
>
>You actually only get 8 minutes of sanding from 1 sheet?
>
>Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Multiply the RPM by the minutes to get the number of strokes
you'd have do make by hand to wear the sheet out. Which is
better to you?
Anyway, save the worn-out hook sheets to use by hand.
-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --
Have you tried the Nortan 3X sheets?
there support to work a lot better, I use Norton H&L with out any problem,
the paper is sometimes a pain to get off when it's done, now is there any
form of dust collection on your sander? is it falling off because the
paper's getting contaminated with dust?
loutent wrote:
>
>> Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You
>> might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that
>> you will finish in half the time.
>>
>>
> Hmmm...guess I'm basically cheap.
>
> Still, I'm talking finish sanding - 220. When these H&L sheets don't
> stick, there still seems to be a lot of grit left on them.
>
> You actually only get 8 minutes of sanding from 1 sheet?
>
> Maybe I'm expecting too much.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Lou
if you think about it 3 ROS's isn't that much money, get Riobi's that have
been refurbished, for $20 each who cares if it only lasts a year, I've had
mine for 3 years now, you could get 4 for less then the Dewalt model
patriarch wrote:
> Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:29:39 GMT, "Leon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Nooooooo... That is not the reason..... PSA simply is cheaper.
>>>Especially if you never change grits and or go through several pieces
>>>of one grit before changing grits. My ROS sees 150 grit 99% of the
>>>time and my SpeedBloc only sees 180 grit 99% of the time.
>>
>> You know, you've got me thinking.
>>
>> 5" ROS's are cheap enough to dedicate to 2-3 grits. The heavy stuff
>> gets belt sanded or planed. I usually always use my finish sander
>> with the same grit.
>>
> That Leon is a smart fella...
>
> If you can justify more than 3 routers, or 5 handplanes, or two dovetail
> saws, why would 3 ROS be a stretch?
>
> Of course, you'd have to be either in business, or hopelessly addicted.
>
> Patriarch,
> seemingly the latter...
The pad can be replaced cheaply if it's just worn out. Most borg will have a
replacement pad (or at least a universal pad) for most sanders.
"rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52...
> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>
> TIA
> RJ
>
We use Klingspor sanding discs and never have a problem.
max
> I have never been able so solve this problem with my H&L 333 PC sander.
> I even bought a new pad, but the problem persists.
>
> When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
> then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
> "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
> sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
> anyway.
>
> I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all
> local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
>
> Frustrated for years with this!
>
> Does anyone have a real solution (or maybe there is none).
>
> Lou
>
> In article <l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52>, rj <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander? Mine's
>> coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>>
>> TIA
>> RJ
>>
>>
To start off with, I have had much more trouble getting the stick-on disks
to stay attached than I ever had with H&L. At the time I was using the
cheapie disks and Porter Cable disks on my Craftsman cheapie ROS. I don't
think I could go more than about 5 minutes and the disk would start coming
off. Any of them, coarse grit, medium grit, or fine grit didn't matter.
Also, I could never just change disks to a different grit without having to
"throw away" the one I just took off. There was also the problem of storing
the old one without contaminating the adhesive. When I "converted" it to
H&L things got much much better. Then the motor went TU, but that is
another story.
Once in a while I still have a sanding disk that will start to come loose,
but I take my air gun and spray the sander's hooks and the disk's loops and
I am usually good to go again. This seems to be a problem only when using
220 or 320 grit disks. I don't know why, maybe the extra fine dust just
gets into more of the H&L, but is infrequent to say the least.
The only time I have ever had a problem with H&L is when I tried to rip one
off too fast and the hook part on the sander tore. My hands weren't exactly
clean and it got a little dust under it and wouldn't stay on after that. I
bought a replacement at the same orange Borg. I made sure the sander was
cleaned of old adhesive, and then cleaned it again, and then cleaned the
cleaner off before putting on a new hook pad. I used a spray contact cement
(3M Adhesive 90) and it has been fine for over a year now.
Norton's disks work great for me and I like them a lot. I really do think
they last 3 times longer than regular disks. The one thing that I don't
like about them is the hole pattern. I got the type that will fit 5-hole
and 8-hole sanders and they just look weird. Like there is just too much
surface area missing. When I go to buy more, I will get the 8-hole only
version.
Just yesterday I was sanding for about 15-20 min on a 36" pine round that I
bought from the orange Borg. This round had been run through a wide belt
sander with a coarse belt and was fairly rough, but using ONLY a 220 grit
disk on my ROS it is now as smooth as a baby's butt. Both sides. It wasn't
a new pad when I started and I think it may have a few more bf before it is
done.
So after all of this verbage, when it comes to the stick-on/H&L war, I will
be on the H&L side. Works for me and gives me the ability to change disks
without having to throw away the one I just took off.
Wayne
"Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <181120041953336426%[email protected]>,
>> loutent <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
>>> then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
>>> "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
>>> sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all
>>> local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
>>
>> I narrowed the problem down, as you suspect, to the quality of the H&L
>> material on the paper. I was buying Norton boxes from the Borg and even
>> had the paper frisbee off the sander on occassion. Once I switched to
>> Mirka H&L disks, I've had zero problems. The Mirka disks are held very
>> securely with the same sander pad, so it's obvious to me it was a
>> material quality issue with the Nortons.
>
> Uh oh. I use norton from the borg also. So far no problems.
> SH
>
>
"rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52...
> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
3
I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I use.
Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:29:39 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Nooooooo... That is not the reason..... PSA simply is cheaper.
>>Especially if you never change grits and or go through several pieces
>>of one grit before changing grits. My ROS sees 150 grit 99% of the
>>time and my SpeedBloc only sees 180 grit 99% of the time.
>
> You know, you've got me thinking.
>
> 5" ROS's are cheap enough to dedicate to 2-3 grits. The heavy stuff
> gets belt sanded or planed. I usually always use my finish sander
> with the same grit.
>
That Leon is a smart fella...
If you can justify more than 3 routers, or 5 handplanes, or two dovetail
saws, why would 3 ROS be a stretch?
Of course, you'd have to be either in business, or hopelessly addicted.
Patriarch,
seemingly the latter...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:44:24 -0800, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
>> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>
>Try using some compressed air to get the worst of it off, then pick at it
>with gaffers tape or similar. I wouldn't use any solvents on the pad.
>
An old toothbrush helps get the stuff out.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
"Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52...
>>> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
>>> Mine's coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>> 3
>>
>> I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I
>> use.
>
> I hate it when you degrade me Leon <smile>
> SH - The "I admit using H&L" (amatuer) woodworker
Not meaning to degrade or put down Slowhand. ;~) If you never changed
grits on a sander you would probably switch to PSA also. It makes good
sense to use H&L if you do not wear the paper out before changing grits.
Hope she has better luck with it than I did. Burned the motor out in just
over a year, and there is no replacement motor available from B & D!.
"rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:oJ8nd.50257$V41.40319@attbi_s52...
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions, (it's my wife's sander - a B&D Mouse).
I'll
> try 'em all.
>
> RJ
>
>
"rj" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<l76nd.49588$V41.23921@attbi_s52>...
> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander? Mine's
> coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>
How about a stiff (but not wire) brush. A toothbrush maybe? Maybe with
soap and water?
I don't recall ever needing to do anything more leaborate than brush
mine with my hand and blow on it.
--
FF
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I use.
Ah! No wonder I suck at this...
(H&L here!)
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:53:33 -0500, loutent <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have never been able so solve this problem with my H&L 333 PC sander.
>I even bought a new pad, but the problem persists.
>
>When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
>then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
>"stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
>sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
>anyway.
You can sand for 20 minutes with the same disk?
8-10 minutes seems to be the max for me, even with Mirka abrasives.
The sandpaper starts to dull and it's all downhill from that point.
Barry
"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:181120041953336426%[email protected]...
>I have never been able so solve this problem with my H&L 333 PC sander.
> I even bought a new pad, but the problem persists.
>
> When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
> then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
> "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
> sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
> anyway.
Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You
might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that you
will finish in half the time.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:29:39 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Nooooooo... That is not the reason..... PSA simply is cheaper.
>Especially if you never change grits and or go through several pieces of one
>grit before changing grits. My ROS sees 150 grit 99% of the time and my
>SpeedBloc only sees 180 grit 99% of the time.
You know, you've got me thinking.
5" ROS's are cheap enough to dedicate to 2-3 grits. The heavy stuff
gets belt sanded or planed. I usually always use my finish sander
with the same grit.
Hmmmmm...
Thanks, Leon!
Barry
rj wrote:
> What do you pros use to clean the pad on your hook and loop sander?
> Mine's
> coated with dust and won't hold the paper any more. Alcohol?
>
> TIA
> RJ
I hook mine up to the shop vac while running (my current dust collector) and
when I change pads I put the brush end on the shopvac and clean the hook
and loop pad.
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I think the "pro's" use PSA paper. Cheaper. At least that is what I
>> use.
>
>
> Ah! No wonder I suck at this...
> (H&L here!)
Nooooooo... That is not the reason..... PSA simply is cheaper.
Especially if you never change grits and or go through several pieces of one
grit before changing grits. My ROS sees 150 grit 99% of the time and my
SpeedBloc only sees 180 grit 99% of the time.
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You can sand for 20 minutes with the same disk?
>
> 8-10 minutes seems to be the max for me, even with Mirka abrasives.
> The sandpaper starts to dull and it's all downhill from that point.
LOL Before I read your post I posted almost exactly the same as you.
In article <181120041953336426%[email protected]>,
loutent <[email protected]> wrote:
> When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while,
> then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not
> "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand
> sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while
> anyway.
>
> I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all
> local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
I narrowed the problem down, as you suspect, to the quality of the H&L
material on the paper. I was buying Norton boxes from the Borg and even
had the paper frisbee off the sander on occassion. Once I switched to
Mirka H&L disks, I've had zero problems. The Mirka disks are held very
securely with the same sander pad, so it's obvious to me it was a
material quality issue with the Nortons.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
In article <[email protected]>, "Slowhand" <I'm@work>
wrote:
> Uh oh. I use norton from the borg also. So far no problems.
> SH
It may have just been a batch problem. Now that I've been thinking about
it, I ended up salvaging much of the box by using a wire brush on the
fuzzy loops to pick up some of the nap. I had already replaced the hook
pad on the sander, thinking I'd melted the hooks off but had the same
problem with the new pad, but not quite as frustrating.
I then went with the Mirka brand and haven't felt the desire to try
others. Also, this happened about 3 or so years ago with just a box or
two of the Norton product - so it could be a hit and miss thing and not
a constant quality problem.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
> That Leon is a smart fella...
Aw..Shucks.... LOL
>
> If you can justify more than 3 routers, or 5 handplanes, or two dovetail
> saws, why would 3 ROS be a stretch?
> Of course, you'd have to be either in business, or hopelessly addicted.
I am on the first and probably on the second. Seriously though H&L is a
great alternative when you need to chang grits before the paper is worn out.
I personally may go through 8 or 10 pieces of the same grit paper on my ROS
before switching to my finish sander that uses the same grit all the time
and I may go through 8 or 9 pieces of the same grit at one time while
sanding on a project.
> Patriarch,
> seemingly the latter...