Norm's mahagany finish

Maybe he did buy the mahogany. . .

--
SwampBug
- - - - - - - - - - - -


"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ez8%[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
> > It's freakin' STAIN!!!
>
> Right, it will not change my life or yours.
>
> But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain,
he
> could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.
> Hey, that's just my opinion and you can voice yours also.
> Ed
>
>

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
scribbled:

<snip of heretical Norm bashing>

Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:

NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!

Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
watching his show?

As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
said!

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

Mike Hide <[email protected]> wrote:

> As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter.

Not sure what you are saying, but you sure seem to enjoy saying it. Why
not provide some criticism? So far all that has been said is that he
stained mahogany. By all means give us more, something of substance,
especially the woodworking part, since he is a "carpenter."

By the way, you can find plenty of pieces that run in the tens of
thousands that are made of mahogany and stained. What was the historical
reference that was used in the show that was such a travesty?

> At least in other
> show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why
> not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show

lol... the "rudiments" are lacking? Tell us more.


> . After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
> built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....

Can we see some of your non-crap finishing? What do you use? The other
guy who was dissing him used stain on pine. He probably used a wreck
approved top coat though.

LRod <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Can we see some of your non-crap finishing? What do you use? The other
> >guy who was dissing him used stain on pine. He probably used a wreck
> >approved top coat though.
>
> You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
> type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
> better, work.

Just call me 'pj.'

Personally, I think it is envy. At least when you ask them for actual
criticism, they usually shut up.
>
> What is a wreck approved top coat, anyway? I hear bitching about poly,
> bitching about, shellac, bitching about French polish, bitching about
> wax. That almost leaves tung oil and lacquer. Are those it?

Hey, I hear bitchin' about tung oil as well. Not enough protective
value. Lacquer? Too nasty to use. I was going to use some brush on. I
wonder if that is acceptable or whether any 'real' furniture builder
would have a nice spray rig.

Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Only when MIke is speaking Ex Cathedra, and, having seen his chair
> work, I feel that he's entitled.

Mike Hide? If so, please tell us the gnarly details of his fastener
free, glueless, secret formula topcoated dream derriere dishes.

The "carpenter" in a repeat of his amateurish travesty of tv, used a
spokeshave, chisels and a lathe to mangle what he called a chair. Pray,
tell, how can we rise above?

The "carpenter" keeps going to museums where fools preserve stained
mahogany and even dross cobbeled together with metal fasteners! Where
can we go to see real furniture?

Mike Hide <[email protected]> wrote:

> Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in laquer
> ...mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2

How odd that you show paneling in an interior to demonstrate that you
are vastly superior because you are more than "just a carpenter."
Paneling as well as built ins are typically done by carpenters.

It includes several unusual design elements like the odd space next to
the desk, the narrow panel next to the windows, the narrow mitered
casings in the context of the room, use of a chair rail and use of
baseboard rather than use of the lowest rail.

Many people who are just carpenters would consider those errors.

As for the finish, I personally don't care for undarkened plain sawn
oak. With the excessive detail and raised panels (another unusual
choice) it is loud to say the least.

I'm surprised the room didn't have a coffered ceiling.

The computer desk has some odd design choices as well particularly the
miter to divide it where strength is needed and the joint is obvious,
but what I'm curious about is what you are? You refer to Nahm as "just a
carpenter" and I'm curious what one becomes when being a carpenter is
transcended?

Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> > We only have 24 minutes available, if we include all of that, what do
> > we leave out?
>
> Maybe nothing. If the project is big enough, take two shows to do it.

You mean a dozen or more right?

> One thing I would do though (getting back to my original post) is to use
> real walnut instead of putting walnut stain on mahogany.

Putting on a stain doesn't convert the wood.

> Since it was a TV
> tray, I'd use poly for the finish because of it durability and ease of
> cleaning.

Then you'd have wreckers calling you a carpenter, a hack, inept,
etcetera because you used poly.

Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> Did you see the show?

No, but I'm curious about the historical context of the piece. Please
share, especially the wood, finish and patina

> He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
> with the color.

No, YOU inferred.

> oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion.


> He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
> also know that just like me, he has faults. --

... or a different opinion

Edwin Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
> > > with the color.
> >
> > No, YOU inferred.
>
> I did?

Go look up the word.

> I thought the mahogany was just fine.

You thought, he thought... sounds like opinions, yet you boldly declare
that he is unquestionably wrong.

What was the historical context? Wood? Finish? Patina?
>
> It was a show with a 1994 copyright. If you want to see it, perhaps it is
> still available on tape.

Thanks but I'll just wait for the rerun to come around. Come to think of
it I wonder if the library carries them.

> > ... or a different opinion
>
> I'm sorry, I did not realize he is perfect.

Don't apologize to me for anything. The straw man is worthless though.

I sure don't think he is perfect. I know I'm not. I know that I can
learn something from just about everyone including wreck regulars,
lurkers and otherwise.

> Thanks for pointing out that
> his "faults" are just a different opinion than mine.

Do you still think that coloring mahogany is a fault?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:23:09 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>At halftime??
>
>On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:49:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Celebrities do have some responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.


Immediately following the Super bowl,

George W. Bush called the Patriots and complimented
them on a great game.

Al Gore called the Panthers and said he thought they
were robbed.

Bill Clinton called Janet Jackson.


----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:36:10 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
>> It's freakin' STAIN!!!
>
>Right, it will not change my life or yours.
>
> But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain, he
>could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.

Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Can't be a man, 'cause he doesn't smoke the same cigarette I do.

"Mike Hide" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:T7g_b.42446$4o.58483@attbi_s52...
> Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
> ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
> mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain
>
> Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
> stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
> about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
> people should be locked up .....mjh
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
> table
> > out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
> When
> > it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
> >
> > Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
> > it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
> > have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
> >
> > --
> > Ed
> > [email protected]
> > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> >
> >
>

Mike Hide wrote:
> "LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
>>>frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
>>>the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
>>>Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.
>>
>>If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
>>built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.
>>
>>Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
>>television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
>>enough to have noticed that.
>>
>>- -
>>LRod
>>
>>Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>>
>>Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>>
>
>
> Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
> anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
> projects are not done in 30 minutes.
>
> As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter. At least in other
> show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why
> not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show
> . After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
> built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh
>
The first episode of the Windsor chair aired here over the weekend.
Chair making
was demonstrated by an expert. Many specialized jigs and hand carving
of the seta. Norm did the same including using the hand tools

to carve the seat. Next week a return to the chair makers shop is promised
to see the expert on finishing. Sounds like just what you want.
John

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? And these folks are by and large _not_ of the
generation raised on TV.

Of course, hero worship and hero envy are old beyond history.

Roy makes up a lot off-screen too....

"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
> television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
> enough to have noticed that.
>

Can't be, or he would do things Mike's way.

Besides, Norm has to be holding his pneumatic brad driver for his
pronouncements to be infallible....

"Luigi Zanasi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>

>
> As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
> One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
> flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
> tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
> Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
> Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
> said!

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:50:30 -0500, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Can't be, or he would do things Mike's way.


Only when MIke is speaking Ex Cathedra, and, having seen his chair
work, I feel that he's entitled.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,

Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
from them.

>anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
>projects are not done in 30 minutes.

I think you do a disservice to rank amateurs...and place too much
emphasis on what the show is or isn't, or what you think it should be.

>As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter.

You say that as though it's a crime.

>At least in other show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house
>renovation.

Like the project where he got finishing tips from a professional
finish restorer? And the projects subsequent to that where he has
mentioned he's employed those tips in the currennt project?

>So why not someone who knows at least the rudiments of
>finishing in his other show .

Please. What "rudiments" of finishing does he not know? If you're just
a finishing snob, then there's no correct answer. So many finishing
snobs blindly prostrate themselve at the altar of David Marks and his
incessant tung oil use that they get completely lathered at their
perception of what the *right* finish shoudl be.

Honestly, you sound as bad as the guy who posted a while back that
Norm doesn't show the proper respect for the wood. What hogwash.

> After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
>built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

Crap? Norm has done polyurethane, wax, modified French polish, tung
oil, and a couple of others that I can't recall. Are they all crap, or
is it just one or two you think are crap?

I suppose the same naysayers who rail on him about "doing a whole
project in 30 minutes" figure he's doing a crap finish because he
"does it alll in the last two minutes of the program."

Not one time have I heard any one of these same people say what finish
it is that he *ought* to be doing.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"Mike Hide" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
>ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
>mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is making
the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
however he likes?

scott

In article <LvC_b.47804$Xp.236779@attbi_s54>,
Mike Hide <[email protected]> wrote:
>I know I have sinned, I have sinned and sinned ,oh woe is me I have
>sinned......mjh


The high prietht hath heard your confethion.

He thayth "repaint and thin no more."


>
>
>"Luigi Zanasi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
>> scribbled:
>>
>> <snip of heretical Norm bashing>
>>
>> Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:
>>
>> NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
>> any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
>> all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
>> world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!
>>
>> Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
>> humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
>> way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
>> Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
>> artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
>> an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
>> does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
>> better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
>> attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
>> enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
>> you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
>> a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
>> the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
>> Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
>> watching his show?
>>
>> As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
>> One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
>> flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
>> tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
>> Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
>> Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
>> said!
>>
>> Luigi
>> Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
>

> No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
> shop with consenting adults..
>
> Celebrities do have some
> responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
> Ed

Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
It's freakin' STAIN!!!

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:55:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>LRod wrote:
>
>>
>> Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
>> like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
>> be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.
>>
>>
>> - -
>> LRod
>
>Did you see the show?

Every single one of them.

>He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help with the color.

You inferred that. He implied it. I said it outright.

>That should be left to the user,

Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

>not the man with a lot of influence over how people do woodworking.

So because someone has a lot of influence (blah, blah, blah) they are
no longer permitted to make the choices that you confer on other
users?

>Of course it does not matter what my opinion is, you will defend his right
>to have a poor influence over many people's choices. If you go back to my
>oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion.
>I'm sure it will not change YOR opinion. I guess the difference is that
>while I like the guy, you seem to adore him and made a shrine of sorts to
>his show.

Ahhh, I guess we're done with the issues and on to straw men. A
shrine? It's just a reference work. Doesn't even editorialize on his
"choices."

>Good for you. My mind is a bit more open when it comes to Norm.

Saying it is so, doesn't make it so.

>He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
>also know that just like me, he has faults. --

Yes, let's clear the channels of all except those without faults.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:58:19 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> >That should be left to the user,
>>
>> Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...
>
>But if he wants to educate, he should offer choices, show options. Not just
>say "mahogany is too red so I'm adding walnut stain." It would be better to
>show the natural wood with a finish and then go on to express his opinion
>and do the stain.

A finishing special would be interesting.

Barry

In article <kZJ_b.389613$xy6.2202365@attbi_s02>,
Mike Hide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
>>
>> Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
>> from them.
>
>Even if it is how not to do it !!!

Right on.

"Nothing is ever *totally*useless*,
it can always serve as a bad example."

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh




"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
> out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
> it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
>
> Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
> it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
> have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
>
> --
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>

Actually mahogany is used quite often for high end decks because it is rot
and decay resistant. It is also used in the marine trades for the same
reason.

--
Bill Rittner
R & B ENTERPRISES
Manchester, CT

[email protected]

"Don't take this life too seriously.......nobody
gets out alive" (Unknown)

Remove "no" to reply
"Mike Hide" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:DM9_b.382512$na.572984@attbi_s04...
>
> Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
> ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
> mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain
>
> Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
> stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
> about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
> people should be locked up .....mjh
>
>
>
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
> table
> > out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
> When
> > it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
> >
> > Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
> > it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
> > have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
> >
> > --
> > Ed
> > [email protected]
> > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> >
> >
>

B a r r y wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:24:45 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> I like Norm, but I also know that an awful lot of people watch his
> show and think "I could do that if only I had all that stuff." We
> 'wreckers all know that tools are only part of the equation. I know
> that if I had Tom Plamann's shop, I still couldn't build one of his
> stairways anytime soon. In time, maybe, but I certainly know there's
> a lot of talent and hard work behind the finished products. I can go
> on and on about people looking at a creation of mine and commenting on
> the tools. I think Norm often makes things look too easy.
>
> Barry

He does make it look easy. I've never seen him do a work around because he
did not have the right tool. We might use a router and table saw and drill
press and tweak with planes and chisels to get a ceratin cut, but Norm just
puts in on the Binford Wood-O-Matic and pushes the button.

While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
> >frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
> >the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
> >Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.
>
> If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
> built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.
>
> Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
> television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
> enough to have noticed that.
>
> - -
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>

Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
projects are not done in 30 minutes.

As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter. At least in other
show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house renovation. So why
not someone who knows at least the rudiments of finishing in his other show
. After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing is
built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh

I know I have sinned, I have sinned and sinned ,oh woe is me I have
sinned......mjh


"Luigi Zanasi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
> scribbled:
>
> <snip of heretical Norm bashing>
>
> Mike, Mike, Mike. Won't you ever learn:
>
> NORM RULES!! Norm bashing is not countenanced in this newsgroup under
> any circumstances. Norm is perfect and he has the best workshop with
> all the best tools. He is the greatest woodworker in the whole wide
> world and in all of history. HE IS NOT TOM SILVA'S WATER BOY!!!
>
> Norm does not make mistakes and does the finest woodworking that is
> humanly possible. Norm always does everything in the best possible
> way. He is better than Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, James Krenov, Sam
> Maloof, Tom Plamann, Ian Kirby and all those other phoneys and rip-off
> artists who claim they can hand-plane a bench-top to within 1/1000 of
> an inch, all put together. If enough people built things the way Norm
> does and bought the same tools he has, the world would be a much
> better place. Nailers and bisquick joiners make the best joints for
> attaching wood and cross grain construction is perfect if you use
> enough brads and biscuits and glue. No need for expensive clamps if
> you've got a brad nailer. Schlepping glue all over your project with
> a wet rag saves on finishing. Minwax stain and poly is unquestionably
> the best finish. Anybody who thinks different or who dares criticize
> Norm is just jealous. If you hate him so much, why do you keep
> watching his show?
>
> As the Pope has infallibility in matters of faith, so has the Plaid
> One in matters of sawdust. If you don't believe me, you will get
> flamed and get tons of hate email for your blasphemy. You will be
> tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. Just ask Tom
> Perigrin. Ignore that JOAT pagan. There is but one woodworking god.
> Norm is Jewish and a carpenter and his mother was a virgin. 'Nuff
> said!
>
> Luigi
> Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>
> >> You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
> >making
> >> the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
> >> however he likes?
> >>
> >> scott
> >
> >No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
> >shop with consenting adults.
> >
> >HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
> >celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought
Lipton
> >tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers
because
> >the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
> >putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have
some
> >responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
> >Ed
>
> So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
> thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
> hold water.
>
> There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on mahogony,
> purists notwithstanding.
>
> scott

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
making
> the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
> however he likes?
>
> scott

No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
shop with consenting adults.

HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought Lipton
tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers because
the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have some
responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
Ed

I don't agree with the walnut stain, but .... I was at
a Woodcraft store in Charleston,S.C. last weekend and
one piece of wood that caught my eye was a finished piece
of mahogany.

The finishing schedule was written on the back.

I was blown away by the results and kept expecting to see
the words "sprayed finish", which didn't ever appear.

The basics was sanding,staining,sealing,top coat,sealing,
more top coat,sealing,rub out.....(13-14 steps as I recall)

It was beautiful and had at least two "stains" applied to
it. A cover stain of water based "dye" from Jeff Jewitt
and then a "colored filler" by Behlen.

I was blown away by the finished results.....

When I asked why he stained it, he said most people(pros)
will end up staining mahogany to get a "slightly darker"
look than the native "pink" that mahogany often shows.

After seeing this "all hand applied" finish, I have to
vote in favor of "helping" the mahogany.....











Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray table
> out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up. When
> it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
>
> Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
> it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
> have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
>

"p_j" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1g9r5rv.ufuhcqlo6dp8N%[email protected]...


>
> > He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
> > with the color.
>
> No, YOU inferred.

I did? I thought the mahogany was just fine. He said it was not, thus the
NEED for stain. Yes, I did capitalize NEED because he said mahogany is just
too red and he had to put stain on it. .

It was a show with a 1994 copyright. If you want to see it, perhaps it is
still available on tape.


>
> ... or a different opinion

I'm sorry, I did not realize he is perfect. Thanks for pointing out that
his "faults" are just a different opinion than mine.
Ed

Always remember Edwin the guy is really a carpenter Thats why he shows his
ignorance on such matters for all to see on TV. I bet he never even
mentioned a "brown " mahogany stain

Stuff like Honduras mahogany is wasted on the likes of Norm.....Even
stranger when I come to think of it wasn't someone on this group talking
about making a deckout of it six months or so ago ......those kind of
people should be locked up .....mjh



--




"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was watching a re-run of YW this morning and Norm was making a tray
table
> out of mahogany. Nice looking wood that sells for about $6.50 and up.
When
> it was almost done, I thought it looked pretty good.
>
> Then he said mahogany can be too red so he put a dark walnut stain on
> it!!!!. I'm glad this was before breakfast or I would have puked. He'd
> have don better using mdf and a couple of coats of brown latex.
>
> --
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>

LRod wrote:
>
> Okay, Mr. TV Producer, how exactly would you produce the show?
> Remember, you only have 24 minutes (less, if it's not on PBS) to get
> your episode in.
>
> How much time do you want to devote to repairing gaffs?

Maybe an entire show. You really could devote a lot of time showing how to
recover from errors.

>
> In the wine cabinet episode, he cut 100 pieces for the rack; how many
> of those cuts should have been shown so as to avoid anyone getting the
> impression that it ain't as easy as it looks?

Cutting 100? That is easy once you have the setup done. I've often made
two or three items at a time because it is so easy one you've determined the
dimension and set the tools. Making triplicates does not take three times as
long as making one and then Ih ave a couple of gifts.



> Some of the "experts" here already rag on the program for not
> demonstrating the filling of brad holes; maybe we better get 20 or 30
> seconds of that in there. Shoot, we have allegedly smart people right
> here on the wreck that think that since they didn't show that he must
> have slathered the inappropriate finish right over those gaping
> crevasses.
>
> We only have 24 minutes available, if we include all of that, what do
> we leave out?

Maybe nothing. If the project is big enough, take two shows to do it.

>
> Come on, you must have a better idea of how we can best serve the
> great unwashed. Tell us the wreck approved method of taking 16+ hours
> of work and compressing it into 24 minutes of TV woodworking show
> production without making it look too easy.


What is the intention of the show aside from making money? Educate?
Demonstrate? How about a show devoted to different woods and different
finishes? Maybe that would be of interest, but then they could not sell a
measured drawing. How about a show devoted to tools (both hand and powered)
and what they can do? That would make his sponsors happy and the Viewers
would know how to properly use a plane, brad nailer and biscuit joiner.
(yes, I have all three).

There are all sorts of viewers every week, some brand new, some seasoned
fans, all looking for new ideas or education. So why not mix it up a little?
Why do I watch? To see just how he does certain things. While a particular
project may not appeal to me, I may learn a better way to do a dado, rout a
groove, or mount some hardware that can be applied to a competely different
project.

One thing I would do though (getting back to my original post) is to use
real walnut instead of putting walnut stain on mahogany. Since it was a TV
tray, I'd use poly for the finish because of it durability and ease of
cleaning.


--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in laquer
...mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2


"p_j" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1g9nt48.14pv3927th4fgN%[email protected]...
> LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >Can we see some of your non-crap finishing? What do you use? The other
> > >guy who was dissing him used stain on pine. He probably used a wreck
> > >approved top coat though.
> >
> > You're wasting your time p, or should I call you Mr. i? I've seen his
> > type on the internet for years; all criticism, no examples of his own,
> > better, work.
>
> Just call me 'pj.'
>
> Personally, I think it is envy. At least when you ask them for actual
> criticism, they usually shut up.
> >
> > What is a wreck approved top coat, anyway? I hear bitching about poly,
> > bitching about, shellac, bitching about French polish, bitching about
> > wax. That almost leaves tung oil and lacquer. Are those it?
>
> Hey, I hear bitchin' about tung oil as well. Not enough protective
> value. Lacquer? Too nasty to use. I was going to use some brush on. I
> wonder if that is acceptable or whether any 'real' furniture builder
> would have a nice spray rig.

LRod wrote:

>
> Uh, did it occur to you that he wasn't staining the mahogany to look
> like walnut? Do you think maybe he was using a stain that happened to
> be walnut colored to give the mahogany a different hue.
>
>
> - -
> LRod

Did you see the show? He inferred that mahogany is in need of some help
with the color. That should be left to the user, not the man with a lot of
influence over how people do woodworking. Yes,he does have a lot of
influence as all TV personalities do.

Of course it does not matter what my opinion is, you will defend his right
to have a poor influence over many people's choices. If you go back to my
oringinal post, I was saying it was a terrible choice. I stated my opinion.
I'm sure it will not change YOR opinion. I guess the difference is that
while I like the guy, you seem to adore him and made a shrine of sorts to
his show. Good for you. My mind is a bit more open when it comes to Norm.
He does a lot of nice things and I've learned some things fromhism, but I
also know that just like me, he has faults. --
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
> It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right, it will not change my life or yours.

But is was wood related and I voiced my opinion. Rather that use stain, he
could have bought real walnut for less than the mahogany he was coloring.
Hey, that's just my opinion and you can voice yours also.
Ed

On 25 Feb 2004 10:16:03 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
brought forth from the murky depths:

>> No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
>> shop with consenting adults..
>>
>> Celebrities do have some
>> responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
>> Ed
>
>Geez Ed, it's not like he beat up his wife and screwed some hooker.
>It's freakin' STAIN!!!

Right. And that's a good reference. There should be similar
punishment for either of the two crimes.

--Friends don't let friends use stain--



----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------

Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
> thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
> hold water.
>
> There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on
> mahogony, purists notwithstanding.
>
> scott

As I said, I don't care what HE does, but he is a teacher, a leader, a
source of supposedly good information. He should be teaching how it could
be finished, not just doing what he wants with no explanation. .

Yes, gullible sheep will do exactly as he does. How many times have you
seen a request for plans here asking "I want to make an 8" burfl, but the
only plans I could find are for 6" burfls" because the twit has no concept
of adding two inches to a couple of dimensions? Same with finishing

If he shows a piece of the natural mahogany and one with stain, I may have
thought nothing of it, but he leads people to belived that wood must be
stained. I'm sure you don't agree, but I think he should encourage free
thinking, not just doing it one way.
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:06 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Norms shows are entertainment but many consider them to be instructional,
>
> Of course they're instructional. I defy anyone to not learn something
> from them.

Even if it is how not to do it !!!


> >anyone but a rank amateur who sees the show as instructional knows these
> >projects are not done in 30 minutes.
>
> I think you do a disservice to rank amateurs...and place too much
> emphasis on what the show is or isn't, or what you think it should be.


That was in fact a comment on someones earlier observation



> >As I said earlier Norm is in fact a glorified carpenter.
>
> You say that as though it's a crime.


I have the utmost respect for carpenters, they make important contributions
to construction on a daily basis


> >At least in other show TOH he uses experts in the various field of house
> >renovation.
> Like the project where he got finishing tips from a professional
> finish restorer? And the projects subsequent to that where he has
> mentioned he's employed those tips in the currennt project?


Ah so the idea of covering up a perfectly good piece of Mahogany with walnut
stain wasn't Norms idea


> >So why not someone who knows at least the rudiments of
> >finishing in his other show .
>
> Please. What "rudiments" of finishing does he not know? If you're just
> a finishing snob, then there's no correct answer. So many finishing
> snobs blindly prostrate themselve at the altar of David Marks and his
> incessant tung oil use that they get completely lathered at their
> perception of what the *right* finish shoudl be.
>
> Honestly, you sound as bad as the guy who posted a while back that
> Norm doesn't show the proper respect for the wood. What hogwash.
>
> > After all the finishing aspects are just as important as how the thing
is
> >built ,if the finish is crap so is the end item.....mjh
>
> Crap? Norm has done polyurethane, wax, modified French polish, tung
> oil, and a couple of others that I can't recall. Are they all crap, or
> is it just one or two you think are crap?


Poly is probably the most durable but I don't care for it personally ,it
looks like a sticky finish with no character, french polish is a great
finish but very suceptable to water let alone alcohol. Tung oil in one of
the constituents in varnish, on its own it will continue sink into the wood
and gather dust in the wood pores until the surface is almost black. Even
worse if at some later date you wish to refinish the item [perhaps to get
back to the items real color] it is extremely difficult to get a finish to
take due to the ingrained oil.

Yes i would say most are crap.


> I suppose the same naysayers who rail on him about "doing a whole
> project in 30 minutes" figure he's doing a crap finish because he
> "does it alll in the last two minutes of the program."


As important as finishes are your hero should perhaps consider doing at
least a couple of programs on finishes alone, then perhaps he could
enlighten the audience on why he picked a particular finish and how it was
applied. Perhaps then your next comment would be answered.

In another post someone mentioned going to Charleston and seeing a piece of
Mahogany and admiring the quality of the finish . The thing that struck me
was he thought it was JUST a sprayed on finish . People should realize
there is a little more to it than just pulling the trigger on a spray gun,
similary with french polishing it is more than wopping on a bunch of shellac
mixed with alcohol and bit of oil on and calling it french polished ,people
used to be french polishers by trade ,much like carpenters are today with
the exception that you had to serve a five year appreticeship before you
qualified.


> Not one time have I heard any one of these same people say what finish
> it is that he *ought* to be doing.




> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net

mjh

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:09:39 GMT, "Mike Hide" <[email protected]>
wrote:

[ill advised response to troll snipped]

Please don't feed the trolls.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> You know, I don't like to stain wood either. However, since Norm is
>making
>> the item for himself, why shouldn't he be allowed to finish it
>> however he likes?
>>
>> scott
>
>No one said he can't and no one cares what he does in the privacy of his
>shop with consenting adults.
>
>HOWEVER, this is more than just a guy making a tray for himself. He is a
>celebrity that has much influence to his audience. My mother bought Lipton
>tea because Arthur Godfrey advertised Lipton tea. Kids buy sneakers because
>the associate the brand with their favorite star. Sadly, people will be
>putting walnut stain on mahogany because Norm did. Celebrities do have some
>responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.
>Ed

So because some people are gullible sheep, Norm shouldn't do what he
thinks is correct, right and proper for him? The argument doesn't
hold water.

There is nothing fundamentally incorrect about using stain on mahogony,
purists notwithstanding.

scott

LRod wrote:
>
> Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
> television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
> enough to have noticed that.


My point it that most of Norm's project are complete quickly, much faster
than the new guy starting out. He makes it looks so easy that people have
expectations that they will be able to do the same if they have a
Wood-O-Matic, just like Norm. I would think you'd be clever enough to have
noticed that.
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

At halftime??

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:49:52 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Celebrities do have some responsibility and can be held to a higher standard.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 03:44:20 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>LRod wrote:
>>
>> Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
>> television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
>> enough to have noticed that.
>
>
>My point it that most of Norm's project are complete quickly, much faster
>than the new guy starting out. He makes it looks so easy that people have
>expectations that they will be able to do the same if they have a
>Wood-O-Matic, just like Norm. I would think you'd be clever enough to have
>noticed that.

Okay, Mr. TV Producer, how exactly would you produce the show?
Remember, you only have 24 minutes (less, if it's not on PBS) to get
your episode in.

How much time do you want to devote to repairing gaffs?

In the wine cabinet episode, he cut 100 pieces for the rack; how many
of those cuts should have been shown so as to avoid anyone getting the
impression that it ain't as easy as it looks?

Should we see all the dadoes being cut so that no one thinks this
project is cake?

Duuhhh, I only saw him plane one board...duuhhh, does that mean I
don't have to plane the others? Yuck, yuck, yuck.

How about ALL of the brads? Include them?

Clearly there's much more sanding that needs to be done than is
regularly shown. We can't have people thinking that not much sanding
is needed; perhaps we can show more of that.

Some of the "experts" here already rag on the program for not
demonstrating the filling of brad holes; maybe we better get 20 or 30
seconds of that in there. Shoot, we have allegedly smart people right
here on the wreck that think that since they didn't show that he must
have slathered the inappropriate finish right over those gaping
crevasses.

We only have 24 minutes available, if we include all of that, what do
we leave out?

Come on, you must have a better idea of how we can best serve the
great unwashed. Tell us the wreck approved method of taking 16+ hours
of work and compressing it into 24 minutes of TV woodworking show
production without making it look too easy.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>While the show encourges woodworking, I imagine that some people get
>frustrated because it takes them a half hour to set up a cut and Norm has
>the whole project built in that time. And they think they must have the
>Wood-O-Matic to do anything good.

If they aren't smart enough to realize that the project isn't *really*
built in half an hour, they don't deserve a Wood-O-Matic.

Neither Norm nor Marks build their project in a half hour. It's called
television entertainment production. I would think you'd be clever
enough to have noticed that.

- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:24:45 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I'm sure you don't agree, but I think he should encourage free
>thinking, not just doing it one way.

I like Norm, but I also know that an awful lot of people watch his
show and think "I could do that if only I had all that stuff." We
'wreckers all know that tools are only part of the equation. I know
that if I had Tom Plamann's shop, I still couldn't build one of his
stairways anytime soon. In time, maybe, but I certainly know there's
a lot of talent and hard work behind the finished products. I can go
on and on about people looking at a creation of mine and commenting on
the tools. I think Norm often makes things look too easy.

However, Norm does seem to have that bias towards a certain company's
finishing products. I don't know if it's lack of knowledge about
other stuff or pure sponsor pressure.

I'd at least like to see the guy use a GOOD quality stain like
Mohawk/Behlen's. Or maybe talk about oils vs. dyes vs. pigments vs.
combinations of all of the above, and show the difference. A mention
of stock selection, considering the part, would be excellent as well.
At least he's spent a minute or two on milk paint.

I don't see a problem with staining mahogany at all. I do have a
problem with staining mahogany with 'el cheapo products!

OTOH, David Marks seems to put Tung Oil on EVERYTHING!

Barry

"p_j" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1g9r4ge.5kx25z11hu9hqN%[email protected]...
> Mike Hide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Added a web page for your information, paneled room and desk both in
laquer
> > ...mjh http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2
>
> How odd that you show paneling in an interior to demonstrate that you
> are vastly superior because you are more than "just a carpenter."
> Paneling as well as built ins are typically done by carpenters.

Thanks for the compliment, I can assure you it is not justified, your
description not mine .

And for information these are not typical built ins as done by carpenters
,that's why I was asked to do the job .
Again I am sure if a carpenter could have done the job there were plenty on
site including trim carpenters that the superintendent ,architect or even
the customer could have selected .

> It includes several unusual design elements like the odd space next to
> the desk, the narrow panel next to the windows, the narrow mitered
> casings in the context of the room, use of a chair rail and use of
> baseboard rather than use of the lowest rail.

Regarding the area next to the door the architect specified the cased door
opening even the double doors. My initial design was a single door opening
to the side of the bookcase. In addition the Carpenters had screwed up the
wall in this room to accommodate equipment in the room behind it.the actual
door frame area was bumped out nearly 9 inches from the wall plane.

Each double door is 13" wide and is designed to fit inside the door casing
so that when open they look like a continuation of the regular room wall
paneling .Both doors have to be open as there is not sufficient access to
get into the room . Normally with a double door entrance one door can remain
closed and there is still sufficient room to provide access.

I designed it but had to incorporate these stipulations by the architect and
the customer.

So to answer you question that is the reason for the small recessed panel
between the bookcase and the cased doorway.It does have its points I suppose
as there are more exposed outside corners in the moldings which always gives
more interest .

As far as the narrow panel next to the windows, those areas were left by the
carpenters when they framed the windows. Perhaps you would have had them run
the windows all the way into the adjacent walls, in my view that would have
been a disaster.

As far as what you call a "built in" that is actually a fitted breakfront .
Under the left hand bookcase are two lateral file cabinets .under the right
hand bookcase are provisions for a printer, fax machine,scanner, paper et
al.


All the doors as can be seen mirror the paneling under the chair rail area
of the room . The chair rail area above the knee hole flips down and pulls
out housing a keyboard and an area for a mouse pad, of course the center
section houses the computer monitor behind rollback doors using a mechanism
of my own design [featured long before the commercial ones of today, grass
hinges on drawerslides] .


> Many people who are just carpenters would consider those errors.

Of course they would particularly if they were uninformed


As for the finish, I personally don't care for undarkened plain sawn
> oak. With the excessive detail and raised panels (another unusual
> choice) it is loud to say the least.

Well believe it or not it is stained, and giving the customer several
options that is what HE liked and lets face it that is what matters.
Just as Norm decided to put a walnut stain on a perfectly good piece of
mahogany, which poses the question to the likes of me or perhaps Ed ,why not
in that case use poplar, or some other inexpensive wood rather than
something that can be made beautiful.
Presumably from all accounts Norm decided that mahogany was too red [I did
not see the show personally] that was his reasoning for using a walnut
stain. I my opinion that shows ignorance of the basics of finishing . Again
inasmuch that the finishing can make or break a piece of furniture the
people who run the show should get Norm off the screen and get a qualified
finisher like Jewitt on the program for a whole series to teach the ins and
outs of finishing

It seems to me this would be an excellent idea [even if it comes from me ]
given the numerous posts on this group concerning finishing problems .

As far as the raised panels and the details, believe it or not some folks
have liked their rooms done like that for the last 400 years

I'm surprised the room didn't have a coffered ceiling.

the ceiling was a disaster. There was an added room above this room so the
ceiling joists were doubled up and additional supports added .No attempt was
made to make sure the ceiling was level or even the lower surface of the
scarfed in joists were coplanar. In the left hand corner above the "built
in" the ceiling dropped 2" in just over a foot. furthermore the normal
pitfalls were still there ,no corners plumb no corners square no walls flat
etc.


> The computer desk has some odd design choices as well particularly the
> miter to divide it where strength is needed and the joint is obvious,

Sorry I have no idea what you are referring to, however I can assure you
there is plenty of strength desi gned into the desk.


> but what I'm curious about is what you are? You refer to Nahm as "just a
> carpenter" and I'm curious what one becomes when being a carpenter is
> transcended?

What am I, just a guy trying to make a living and doing what I like to do
best. What does one become when one transcends being a carpenter ? I have
no idea, but I would as You obviously believe they are already Gods, where
is there to go?

mjh

"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >That should be left to the user,
>
> Uh, that would be him. Or Morash. In either case...

But if he wants to educate, he should offer choices, show options. Not just
say "mahogany is too red so I'm adding walnut stain." It would be better to
show the natural wood with a finish and then go on to express his opinion
and do the stain.



> So because someone has a lot of influence (blah, blah, blah) they are
> no longer permitted to make the choices that you confer on other
> users?

See above statement. People ARE influence by his choices and decisions. He
can make any choice he wants. If I'm instructing people, I show them
options.
Ed

In article <Dlb_b.12810$iB.12170@lakeread06>,
"Bill Rittner" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Actually mahogany is used quite often for high end decks because it is rot
> and decay resistant. It is also used in the marine trades for the same
> reason.

...and "red" mahogany turns brown in sunlight anyway. Isn't
Chippendale's furniture mostly mahogany oiled brown?
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