I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
specific thread on the matter.
What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
So - what is everyone else using?
Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
Other comments?
OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
them if they pop up in this thread.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> And always 15-degrees! I noticed that the Harbor Freight one
> provided 2 different angles. I don't own either, so I am watching
> this thread with interest.
>
> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and
> making one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would
> seem to be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape
> on the drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for
> occasional use, this would seem to be more practical than forking over
> $100+.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
I tried that, and it worked out just ok. There's a lot of "indicental
knowledge" (for lack of a better term) in those pocket hole jigs. Some
of the details I can remember off the top of my head: the angle of the
drill bit needs to be just so, the length needs to be within a certain
range, the jig needs to be clamped in the proper location.
Not long after, I bought the K4 system. It's much easier to use, more
durable (metal sleeves) and also more dangerous. (Do not rub your
fingers along the holes on the wood side of the jig (to clear sawdust
out). It's sharp!) To clamp, I just basically throw the piece of wood
into the jig and throw the switch.
Kreg is certainly proud of their stuff, but the pocket hole jigs are
quality tools. The price kept me away for a long time.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Yup - I'm pretty well decided on the K4. Hard for a guy like me to
> not take a closer look at the Harbor Freight unit, because it does
> look good and gets great reviews, but this is one of those times when
> I'm just going to pull the trigger on the guys who are best known in
> their industry. If the HF unit was twenty or thirty bucks cheaper
> than it is, it would be an easy decision, but it's only 30 bucks less
> than the Kreg, and the Kreg just has too good of a name to ignore.
> Sometimes ya just gotta go all the way - even if it's not painted
> green...
>
The other day I was in Menards and they had a special with the Kreg jig.
Buy the jig and get a free box of 500 screws. It might be worth doing some
looking around to see if a deal like that is available.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 1/21/2013 5:54 PM, Mike M wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:57:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2013 8:09 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:14:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/18/2013 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
>>>>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>>>>> specific thread on the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
>>>>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
>>>>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
>>>>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
>>>>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
>>>>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>>>>
>>>>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other comments?
>>>>>
>>>>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>>>>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
>>>> can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.
>>>
>>> Mine is old enough that it came with a VHS tape. If you've worked
>>> with tools for a living you think in terms of getting home for dinner.
>>> I'm looking at upgrading my system to the newer one if I think it's
>>> worth it. If I do I'll offer the older one here.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>
>> Is yours the one that is all metal? I have one of those.
>>
>> The biggest advantage on the latest vs. that one is better dust control,
>> adjustable for proper screw exit on different stock thickness, and extra
>> drill hole. Ah! and the clamp lever is on the front side so that you do
>> not have to reach around or over the piece being drilled.
>> And it can be used more easily away from the bench.
>>
>>
> Mine is the K-2000 Pro. It's the blue but does have metal inserts.
> Seems to look about like the K-3 for the basics. No dust collection
> but I saw a Youtube video where a guy forgot his adaptor and just set
> the vacuum hose with the brush so that's not a problem. I like the
> other clamp but what you described makes it less valuble. I guess
> I'll stick with this until there is a reason to change.
>
> Mike M
>
Newer than mine. LOL Mine has plastic on the clamp rod where itpressed
against the wood and on the clamp handle.
On 1/20/2013 2:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> The biggest advantage on the latest vs. that one is better dust
>> control, adjustable for proper screw exit on different stock
>> thickness, and extra drill hole. Ah! and the clamp lever is on the
>> front side so that you do not have to reach around or over the piece
>> being drilled. And it can be used more easily away from the bench.
>
> It doesn't appear that you can buy a K3 as a kit though. They have the K4
> on the web site as a kit, and they have the K3 as a standalone product, but
> I couldn't find a kit.
>
I don't have this particular kit but I do have the K3 kit.
http://www.kregtool.com/Toolboxxtrade-Master-Collection-Prodview.html
It appears that the K4 uses the same type clamp as the older all metal
one, probably the original.
I will tell you that the K3 has an inherent flaw which I have had a
problem with. The K4 would not have this same problem.
The K3 has a composite ram. The plunge rod screws in to a threaded
insert imbedded in that composite material. The threaded insert will
eventually strip out and spin in the ram. Kreg replace mine when it did
that. Probably why they are going back to all metal for the clamp
mechanism. The K4 design is a bit more trouble because you have to
reach to the back of the tool to clamp and unclamp but I will probably
last longer.
On 1/19/2013 8:09 PM, Mike M wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:14:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/2013 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
>>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>>> specific thread on the matter.
>>>
>>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
>>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
>>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
>>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
>>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
>>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>>
>>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>>
>>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>>
>>> Other comments?
>>>
>>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
>> can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.
>
> Mine is old enough that it came with a VHS tape. If you've worked
> with tools for a living you think in terms of getting home for dinner.
> I'm looking at upgrading my system to the newer one if I think it's
> worth it. If I do I'll offer the older one here.
>
> Mike M
Is yours the one that is all metal? I have one of those.
The biggest advantage on the latest vs. that one is better dust control,
adjustable for proper screw exit on different stock thickness, and extra
drill hole. Ah! and the clamp lever is on the front side so that you do
not have to reach around or over the piece being drilled.
And it can be used more easily away from the bench.
On 1/20/2013 5:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Here is the problem that I had and probably most everyone has or will
>> have. Both the K3 and K4 use a jam nut to secure the clamp rod
>> position on the ram. The nut for all practical purposes has to be
>> tightened to some degree with a wrench or it works loose from being
>> clamped/loosened repeatedly. That is the problem with the K3. Tightening
>> the nut against the ram insert can result in the nut and
>> insert turning together when you try to loosen the jam nut. The
>> composite material does not hold the insert securely enough to
>> prevent slipping when loosening. The K4 is all steel.
>>
>> If I were to buy again I would go with the K4, it's design prevents
>> the problem. I reached around/over the material before I got the K3,
>> I could do that again.
>
> Yup - I'm pretty well decided on the K4. Hard for a guy like me to not take
> a closer look at the Harbor Freight unit, because it does look good and gets
> great reviews, but this is one of those times when I'm just going to pull
> the trigger on the guys who are best known in their industry. If the HF
> unit was twenty or thirty bucks cheaper than it is, it would be an easy
> decision, but it's only 30 bucks less than the Kreg, and the Kreg just has
> too good of a name to ignore. Sometimes ya just gotta go all the way - even
> if it's not painted green...
>
The Kreg feels right. I think the HF would have to be $5 to be a
consideration for me.
On 1/18/2013 1:06 PM, chaniarts wrote:
> On 1/18/2013 11:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/18/13 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
>>> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
>>> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
>>> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
>>> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Funny you say that, because I used pocket holes waaaaaay back in the day
>> when I didn't know anything. I learned it from a master carpenter and
>> always thought of it as my little secret that I'd save to impress
>> people. :-)
>>
>> He said it was basically toe-nailing for screws. He used to do it on
>> cabinet boxes and anything he didn't want nail holes showing. Best part,
>> it was all freehand and dare I say, as good as most Kreg jig holes. I
>> got pretty good at it and it's just a technique I would reach for as a
>> default. After using the Kreg jigs are the past decade, I'd probably do
>> a really lousy job by hand, now.
>
> how do you get the hole started freehand, and how high up from the joint
> does it have to be?
>
Don't drill the hole at an angle, drill it at 90 degrees. Then cut the
side at 15" through the side of the hole.
On 1/18/2013 2:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>
>> One reason I like the smaller (Jr?) jig without the integrated clamp
>> (like the HF), is that I can clamp it wherever and on whatever I like.
>> The integrated clamp models are more for bench-top and not as
>> portable. I would like to get a bench-top model at some point, but I'm
>> glad I
>> didn't start with one. There are things you can do the the Jr you
>> can't do with the larger ones, but the Jr can do whatever the larger ones
>> can do.
>
> I noticed that when I was looking at the Kregs. Then I noticed that the HF
> model comes with a mobile base that you can screw on to the drill guide, so
> you can use it independent of the base.
>
You can do that with the Kreg too.
On 1/18/13 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
> specific thread on the matter.
>
> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>
> So - what is everyone else using?
>
> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>
> Other comments?
>
> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
> them if they pop up in this thread.
>
General Tools also makes a generic pocket hole jig.
The only concern I would have on non-Kreg jigs is how easy is it to
adjust for thickness of material? The adjustment on Kregs is fast and
simple.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/18/13 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another
>> thread, but having noodled about some since then, it seems
>> worthwhile starting a specific thread on the matter.
>>
>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and
>> leaves more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and
>> useability. I was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across
>> videos and opinions on the Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable
>> on their web site. Of course - it is cheaper than the Kreg, will
>> accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks to be well built, etc.
>> It has now become a contender. So - what is everyone else using?
>>
>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>
>> Other comments?
>>
>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal
>> out of them if they pop up in this thread.
>>
>
> General Tools also makes a generic pocket hole jig.
> The only concern I would have on non-Kreg jigs is how easy is it to
> adjust for thickness of material? The adjustment on Kregs is fast and
> simple.
So does it have a couple of common thickness in mind? Say maybe 1/2", 3/4",
and 1 1/2"? The HF model does that, but I don't think it's infinitely
variable.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
basilisk wrote:
>
> I bought the Kreg k3 some years ago, not too expensive, simple,
> efficient, versatile and possibly one of my most used tools.
>
> I don't know anything about anybody elses jig, I would spring for
> another Kreg in a heartbeat if I needed a new one. (price has went up
> a lot though)
>
> The only part of the k3 kit I haven't used is the stop assembly gizmo,
> I usually just register off the edge of the jig or mark the location
> on long
> material.
>
Thanks.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 1/18/2013 11:11 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/18/13 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread,
>> but
>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>> specific thread on the matter.
>>
>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and
>> useability. I
>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on
>> the
>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of
>> course - it
>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock,
>> looks
>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>
>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>
>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>
>> Other comments?
>>
>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>
>
> General Tools also makes a generic pocket hole jig.
> The only concern I would have on non-Kreg jigs is how easy is it to
> adjust for thickness of material? The adjustment on Kregs is fast and
> simple.
And always 15-degrees! I noticed that the Harbor Freight one provided
2 different angles. I don't own either, so I am watching this thread
with interest.
Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
Bill
On 1/18/13 11:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/18/13 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another
>>> thread, but having noodled about some since then, it seems
>>> worthwhile starting a specific thread on the matter.
>>>
>>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and
>>> leaves more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and
>>> useability. I was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across
>>> videos and opinions on the Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable
>>> on their web site. Of course - it is cheaper than the Kreg, will
>>> accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks to be well built, etc.
>>> It has now become a contender. So - what is everyone else using?
>>>
>>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>>
>>> Other comments?
>>>
>>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal
>>> out of them if they pop up in this thread.
>>>
>>
>> General Tools also makes a generic pocket hole jig.
>> The only concern I would have on non-Kreg jigs is how easy is it to
>> adjust for thickness of material? The adjustment on Kregs is fast and
>> simple.
>
> So does it have a couple of common thickness in mind? Say maybe 1/2", 3/4",
> and 1 1/2"? The HF model does that, but I don't think it's infinitely
> variable.
>
I don't know how the other Kregs do it, but mine has little slides that
click into place with markings on them for stock thickness.
Keep in mind that this is just to insure that the hole is centered on
the end of the wood. This is of moderate importance for squaring the
joint and getting equal pressure. However, there may be times when you
don't want the hole perfectly centered. With repeated use in different
circumstances, you'll reply less on what they tell you to do and more on
what works best for you in whatever particular circumstance.
I make a habit of always making test connections on scraps of the same
material to be connected. You will find reasons, at times, to do things
a bit differently than the directions suggest. hole deeper or shallower,
centered or not, longer or shorter screws, etc.
One reason I like the smaller (Jr?) jig without the integrated clamp
(like the HF), is that I can clamp it wherever and on whatever I like.
The integrated clamp models are more for bench-top and not as portable.
I would like to get a bench-top model at some point, but I'm glad I
didn't start with one. There are things you can do the the Jr you can't
do with the larger ones, but the Jr can do whatever the larger ones can do.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/18/13 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>
>
> Bill
>
Funny you say that, because I used pocket holes waaaaaay back in the day
when I didn't know anything. I learned it from a master carpenter and
always thought of it as my little secret that I'd save to impress
people. :-)
He said it was basically toe-nailing for screws. He used to do it on
cabinet boxes and anything he didn't want nail holes showing. Best part,
it was all freehand and dare I say, as good as most Kreg jig holes. I
got pretty good at it and it's just a technique I would reach for as a
default. After using the Kreg jigs are the past decade, I'd probably do
a really lousy job by hand, now.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/18/2013 11:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/18/13 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
>> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
>> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
>> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
>> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
> Funny you say that, because I used pocket holes waaaaaay back in the day
> when I didn't know anything. I learned it from a master carpenter and
> always thought of it as my little secret that I'd save to impress
> people. :-)
>
> He said it was basically toe-nailing for screws. He used to do it on
> cabinet boxes and anything he didn't want nail holes showing. Best part,
> it was all freehand and dare I say, as good as most Kreg jig holes. I
> got pretty good at it and it's just a technique I would reach for as a
> default. After using the Kreg jigs are the past decade, I'd probably do
> a really lousy job by hand, now.
how do you get the hole started freehand, and how high up from the joint
does it have to be?
chaniarts wrote:
> On 1/18/2013 11:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/18/13 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and
>>> making
>>> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
>>> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
>>> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
>>> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Funny you say that, because I used pocket holes waaaaaay back in the day
>> when I didn't know anything. I learned it from a master carpenter and
>> always thought of it as my little secret that I'd save to impress
>> people. :-)
>>
>> He said it was basically toe-nailing for screws. He used to do it on
>> cabinet boxes and anything he didn't want nail holes showing. Best part,
>> it was all freehand and dare I say, as good as most Kreg jig holes. I
>> got pretty good at it and it's just a technique I would reach for as a
>> default. After using the Kreg jigs are the past decade, I'd probably do
>> a really lousy job by hand, now.
>
> how do you get the hole started freehand, and how high up from the
> joint does it have to be?
>
If you are using a 3/8" drill bit in a drill press, I don't think the
first part is a problem (although it's conceivable that the drill press
could get in the way).
As for the second part,clearly it will depend on the thickness of the
boards. You could make one for 1/2" boards and another for 3/4" boards,
for instance.
If in doubt about the entree point of the drill bit, use a 15-degree
angle to determine the height. If your screws aren't long enough,
then use a larger angle.
On 1/18/13 1:06 PM, chaniarts wrote:
> On 1/18/2013 11:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/18/13 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
>>> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
>>> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
>>> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
>>> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Funny you say that, because I used pocket holes waaaaaay back in the day
>> when I didn't know anything. I learned it from a master carpenter and
>> always thought of it as my little secret that I'd save to impress
>> people. :-)
>>
>> He said it was basically toe-nailing for screws. He used to do it on
>> cabinet boxes and anything he didn't want nail holes showing. Best part,
>> it was all freehand and dare I say, as good as most Kreg jig holes. I
>> got pretty good at it and it's just a technique I would reach for as a
>> default. After using the Kreg jigs are the past decade, I'd probably do
>> a really lousy job by hand, now.
>
> how do you get the hole started freehand,
The same way you would with toe-nailing a nail; start at more of a right
angle until you're in the wood enough to grab, then quickly close the
angle to be more acute until it's at the angle you want the nail (screw).
> and how high up from the joint does it have to be?
>
I've never measured. :-) I guess it's approximately the same as the
pocket screw jigs. Back when I used to do that regularly, I was using
plain bugle flat head screws, not the washer-head types for pocket
holes. You gave to be *real* careful using flat-heads because they can
pull down too far and split the wood. But that's what I started with and
that's what I used. When I discovered washer-heads, it got real easy to
do, especially with a brad point or even Forstner bit that would drill a
flat bottomed hole.
Modern pocket hole screws are great, because they act a bit like a
gauge. They are usually only threaded as deep as they are designed to
enter the wood into which being screwed. So you can measure or eyeball
how far to drill the hole and an approximate entry point.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
>
> One reason I like the smaller (Jr?) jig without the integrated clamp
> (like the HF), is that I can clamp it wherever and on whatever I like.
> The integrated clamp models are more for bench-top and not as
> portable. I would like to get a bench-top model at some point, but I'm
> glad I
> didn't start with one. There are things you can do the the Jr you
> can't do with the larger ones, but the Jr can do whatever the larger ones
> can do.
I noticed that when I was looking at the Kregs. Then I noticed that the HF
model comes with a mobile base that you can screw on to the drill guide, so
you can use it independent of the base.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bill wrote:
>
> And always 15-degrees! I noticed that the Harbor Freight one
> provided 2 different angles. I don't own either, so I am watching
> this thread with interest.
The two different angles are for different stock thickness. One is for 1x
and the other is for 2x. It can do 1/2 also, but you use the same guides as
the 1x.
>
> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and
> making one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it
> would seem to be practically child's play! : ) I might use
> masking tape on the drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At
> least for occasional use, this would seem to be more practical than
> forking over $100+.
$69 at HF. You could make one, but the key is the hardened steel guides.
By the time you get done farting around making one it's probably cheaper to
just pay the $69 and be done with it. Some wheels just aren't worth
reinventing.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> The biggest advantage on the latest vs. that one is better dust
> control, adjustable for proper screw exit on different stock
> thickness, and extra drill hole. Ah! and the clamp lever is on the
> front side so that you do not have to reach around or over the piece
> being drilled. And it can be used more easily away from the bench.
It doesn't appear that you can buy a K3 as a kit though. They have the K4
on the web site as a kit, and they have the K3 as a standalone product, but
I couldn't find a kit.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> I don't have this particular kit but I do have the K3 kit.
>
> http://www.kregtool.com/Toolboxxtrade-Master-Collection-Prodview.html
>
>
>
> It appears that the K4 uses the same type clamp as the older all metal
> one, probably the original.
>
>
> I will tell you that the K3 has an inherent flaw which I have had a
> problem with. The K4 would not have this same problem.
>
> The K3 has a composite ram. The plunge rod screws in to a threaded
> insert imbedded in that composite material. The threaded insert will
> eventually strip out and spin in the ram. Kreg replace mine when it
> did that. Probably why they are going back to all metal for the clamp
> mechanism. The K4 design is a bit more trouble because you have to
> reach to the back of the tool to clamp and unclamp but I will probably
> last longer.
Both you and Dave posted links to K3 kits - I guess I just missed those.
I'll refine my "statement" to be that I'd be interested in a basic K3 kit -
don't need the clamps, or other stuff that comes in Master or free mini's
thrown in. I was hoping there would be a K3 kit that was basically the same
as the K4 kit which sells for $99, but that had the K3 base. I figured it
might be a little more, but hopefully not a lot more.
I didn't know about the problem with the ram. I've read a lot of Kreg
forums and there is a lot of old talk about the K3 having disappeared for a
while (appears to have been a patent issue of some sort...), but no talk of
a K3 kit. Maybe it just does not exist unless you spend way too much money
buying a Master's kit. Hell, for $99 I could buy a K4 kit and then spend
another $70 for the K3 base and spend a lot less money than the Master's
kits - though I'd have two bases which I don't need at all. But - it would
save $100.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> I didn't know about the problem with the ram. I've read a lot of Kreg
> forums and there is a lot of old talk about the K3 having disappeared
> for a while (appears to have been a patent issue of some sort...),
> but no talk of a K3 kit. Maybe it just does not exist unless you
> spend way too much money buying a Master's kit. Hell, for $99 I
> could buy a K4 kit and then spend another $70 for the K3 base and
> spend a lot less money than the Master's kits - though I'd have two
> bases which I don't need at all. But - it would save $100.
Been looking around more. I think the basic K4 kit is all I'm going to go
with. The advantage of the K3 seems to be with larger stock that is
difficult to reach around, but in those rare times when I'd be in that
situation, it seems equally practical to just take the jig out of the base
and drill those holes the old fashioned way. So - not so much of a real
benefit to me as I see it. It will certainly be a hell of a lot better than
the old jig I have now.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> Here is the problem that I had and probably most everyone has or will
> have. Both the K3 and K4 use a jam nut to secure the clamp rod
> position on the ram. The nut for all practical purposes has to be
> tightened to some degree with a wrench or it works loose from being
> clamped/loosened repeatedly. That is the problem with the K3. Tightening
> the nut against the ram insert can result in the nut and
> insert turning together when you try to loosen the jam nut. The
> composite material does not hold the insert securely enough to
> prevent slipping when loosening. The K4 is all steel.
>
> If I were to buy again I would go with the K4, it's design prevents
> the problem. I reached around/over the material before I got the K3,
> I could do that again.
Yup - I'm pretty well decided on the K4. Hard for a guy like me to not take
a closer look at the Harbor Freight unit, because it does look good and gets
great reviews, but this is one of those times when I'm just going to pull
the trigger on the guys who are best known in their industry. If the HF
unit was twenty or thirty bucks cheaper than it is, it would be an easy
decision, but it's only 30 bucks less than the Kreg, and the Kreg just has
too good of a name to ignore. Sometimes ya just gotta go all the way - even
if it's not painted green...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:14:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/18/2013 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>> specific thread on the matter.
>>
>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>
>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>
>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>
>> Other comments?
>>
>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>
>
>
>The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
>can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.
Mine is old enough that it came with a VHS tape. If you've worked
with tools for a living you think in terms of getting home for dinner.
I'm looking at upgrading my system to the newer one if I think it's
worth it. If I do I'll offer the older one here.
Mike M
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:14:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
>can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.
The hardened steel drill guides come with a lifetime warranty so even
if they do wear out, they're covered against replacement.
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:57:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/19/2013 8:09 PM, Mike M wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:14:57 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/18/2013 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
>>>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>>>> specific thread on the matter.
>>>>
>>>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
>>>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
>>>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
>>>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
>>>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
>>>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>>>
>>>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>>>
>>>> Other comments?
>>>>
>>>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>>>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
>>> can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.
>>
>> Mine is old enough that it came with a VHS tape. If you've worked
>> with tools for a living you think in terms of getting home for dinner.
>> I'm looking at upgrading my system to the newer one if I think it's
>> worth it. If I do I'll offer the older one here.
>>
>> Mike M
>
>Is yours the one that is all metal? I have one of those.
>
>The biggest advantage on the latest vs. that one is better dust control,
>adjustable for proper screw exit on different stock thickness, and extra
>drill hole. Ah! and the clamp lever is on the front side so that you do
>not have to reach around or over the piece being drilled.
>And it can be used more easily away from the bench.
>
>
Mine is the K-2000 Pro. It's the blue but does have metal inserts.
Seems to look about like the K-3 for the basics. No dust collection
but I saw a Youtube video where a guy forgot his adaptor and just set
the vacuum hose with the brush so that's not a problem. I like the
other clamp but what you described makes it less valuble. I guess
I'll stick with this until there is a reason to change.
Mike M
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:09:28 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>It doesn't appear that you can buy a K3 as a kit though. They have the K4
>on the web site as a kit, and they have the K3 as a standalone product, but
>I couldn't find a kit.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=46270&cat=1,180,42311,46275,46270
On 1/20/2013 3:24 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't have this particular kit but I do have the K3 kit.
>>
>> http://www.kregtool.com/Toolboxxtrade-Master-Collection-Prodview.html
>>
>>
>>
>> It appears that the K4 uses the same type clamp as the older all metal
>> one, probably the original.
>>
>>
>> I will tell you that the K3 has an inherent flaw which I have had a
>> problem with. The K4 would not have this same problem.
>>
>> The K3 has a composite ram. The plunge rod screws in to a threaded
>> insert imbedded in that composite material. The threaded insert will
>> eventually strip out and spin in the ram. Kreg replace mine when it
>> did that. Probably why they are going back to all metal for the clamp
>> mechanism. The K4 design is a bit more trouble because you have to
>> reach to the back of the tool to clamp and unclamp but I will probably
>> last longer.
>
> Both you and Dave posted links to K3 kits - I guess I just missed those.
> I'll refine my "statement" to be that I'd be interested in a basic K3 kit -
> don't need the clamps, or other stuff that comes in Master or free mini's
> thrown in. I was hoping there would be a K3 kit that was basically the same
> as the K4 kit which sells for $99, but that had the K3 base. I figured it
> might be a little more, but hopefully not a lot more.
>
> I didn't know about the problem with the ram. I've read a lot of Kreg
> forums and there is a lot of old talk about the K3 having disappeared for a
> while (appears to have been a patent issue of some sort...), but no talk of
> a K3 kit. Maybe it just does not exist unless you spend way too much money
> buying a Master's kit. Hell, for $99 I could buy a K4 kit and then spend
> another $70 for the K3 base and spend a lot less money than the Master's
> kits - though I'd have two bases which I don't need at all. But - it would
> save $100.
>
Here is the problem that I had and probably most everyone has or will
have. Both the K3 and K4 use a jam nut to secure the clamp rod position
on the ram. The nut for all practical purposes has to be tightened to
some degree with a wrench or it works loose from being clamped/loosened
repeatedly. That is the problem with the K3. Tightening the nut
against the ram insert can result in the nut and insert turning together
when you try to loosen the jam nut. The composite material does not
hold the insert securely enough to prevent slipping when loosening. The
K4 is all steel.
If I were to buy again I would go with the K4, it's design prevents the
problem. I reached around/over the material before I got the K3, I
could do that again.
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 08:07:24 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
> specific thread on the matter.
>
> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>
> So - what is everyone else using?
>
> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>
> Other comments?
>
> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
> them if they pop up in this thread.
I bought the Kreg k3 some years ago, not too expensive, simple, efficient,
versatile and possibly one of my most used tools.
I don't know anything about anybody elses jig, I would spring for another
Kreg in a heartbeat if I needed a new one. (price has went up a lot
though)
The only part of the k3 kit I haven't used is the stop assembly gizmo,
I usually just register off the edge of the jig or mark the location on
long
material.
basilisk
On 1/18/2013 11:41 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 1/18/2013 11:11 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/18/13 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread,
>>> but
>>> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
>>> specific thread on the matter.
>>>
>>> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and
>>> leaves
>>> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and
>>> useability. I
>>> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on
>>> the
>>> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of
>>> course - it
>>> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock,
>>> looks
>>> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>>>
>>> So - what is everyone else using?
>>>
>>> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>>>
>>> Other comments?
>>>
>>> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
>>> them if they pop up in this thread.
>>>
>>
>> General Tools also makes a generic pocket hole jig.
>> The only concern I would have on non-Kreg jigs is how easy is it to
>> adjust for thickness of material? The adjustment on Kregs is fast and
>> simple.
>
> And always 15-degrees! I noticed that the Harbor Freight one provided
> 2 different angles. I don't own either, so I am watching this thread
> with interest.
>
> Dare I suggest: How about buying the drill bit and the screws and making
> one's own jig? With all of the engineer's around here it would seem to
> be practically child's play! : ) I might use masking tape on the
> drill bit to mark the level to drill to. At least for occasional use,
> this would seem to be more practical than forking over $100+.
>
>
> Bill
>
Rookie! ;~)
On 1/18/2013 7:07 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I asked what everyone is using for Pocket Hole Jigs in another thread, but
> having noodled about some since then, it seems worthwhile starting a
> specific thread on the matter.
>
> What I use now is some cheap junk jig that I bought years ago, and leaves
> more to be desired than it does to offer in functionality and useability. I
> was looking at the Kreg K3 kit, and came across videos and opinions on the
> Harbor Freight jig. That jig is viewable on their web site. Of course - it
> is cheaper than the Kreg, will accommodate both 1x stock and 2x stock, looks
> to be well built, etc. It has now become a contender.
>
> So - what is everyone else using?
>
> Is anyone using or familiar with the Harbor Freight offering?
>
> Other comments?
>
> OT comments are normal in a community, so I won't make a big deal out of
> them if they pop up in this thread.
>
The Kreg is the "standard". You will probably never wear it out. You
can find cheaper and you will get cheaper.