I heard today that Ebay is suing craigslist. I for one benefitted immensely from
craigslist. When we moved from the Midwest to SF, I sold all my woodworking
machines, cars and other household items on craigslist. I bought most of my
woodworking tools and two used cars in SF Bay area craigslist.
What do you think, Ebay a greedy sob?
On Apr 24, 1:44=A0pm, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Have fun and mahalo,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 jo4hn
>
> [Kijiji?]
Swahili for village.
"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think mine was only a $9.00 purchase...
> Oh well, lessons learned.
I've used Craigslist several times, but only for purchases that are in the
same city and I can go pick up the item personally. Knowing where the seller
lives and that fact that they're local brings with it a certain amount of
buyer protection.
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:41:21 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Then why should I post it for you?
>
>No reason...
Let me suggest some reasons.
- To say thank you to the seller
- To let the seller know you're happy with the transaction
- To do your part in creating a sellers reputation (good or bad)
To your point of "What does it matter?"
I've been an eBay member since 11/98 with a grand total of ~ 180
transactions, averaging 18 per year. I have a 100% positive feedback
of 156. Some people leave feedback, and repeat transactions don't
count, so I don't have a 180. My rating is split 50/50 between
buying and selling. I use eBay as on online yard sale, buying and
selling personal goods (tools, bicycle parts, household items), not as
an income generating business.
Sometimes, you may be my first "seller" transaction in months, or even
a year. Your feedback DOES matter greatly in this case, which is why
the eBay "Feedback Tutorial" greatly encourages buyers to leave
something.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote
Have fun and mahalo,
jo4hn
[Kijiji?]
----
I'd never even heard of it.... had to go have a look.
Interesting to say the least.
K.
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:17:59 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>I expect, and usually get, 5/5 DSR stars on all categories, as I break
>my ass to provide excellent service, underpromise and overdeliver,
>anddescribe my items very conservatively. Someone who dosen't
>understand the process, and may have personal belief that "nothing is
>perfect in life" costs a little guy like me 1/2 a star. The effect?
>DSR's change your listing placing during searches!
>
>How can we improve if we don't know which transaction didn't earn the
>5/5 by making the customer happy?
>
>I've been using Craigslist more and more...
Besiding breaking your ass trying to please your customer, now you have
PRC (Chinese) competing with you, like starting bid at $0.01.
Swingman wrote:
>
> "Mark & Juanita" wrote
>
>> One of the problems is knowing how to "rate the rater". We run into
>> the
>> same problem with any kinds of surveys or assessments we do. To some
>> people, everybody who works for them walks on water. For other people,
> the
>> same personnel who are clearly outstanding rank only an average rating
>> because they meet the rater's expectations and don't "wow" them.
>
> In the US Army of the 60's and 70's, "Officer Efficiency Reports" (OER's),
> come immediately to mind.
>
> Out of a possible "100" whole number rating, it soon came to pass that
> anything less than a "99" was a gold plated, toad sucking, slacker not
> worthy of promotion.
>
> Not to mention that it also came to pass that there were simply not enough
> superlatives/adjectives in the English language to populate the intended
> OER of a truly excellent officer in order make it stand out from its
> brethren ... they'd all been used/abused to the point of triteness.
>
Do I hear that. We hired a retired AF guy a couple of years ago; great
guy, excellent productivity. But when I read his annual performance review
inputs, I cringe at the number of superlatives heaped upon his
accomplishments. I know it is from his AF past, I've seen the same thing
in resume's from AF people we look to hire. One guy whose resume I read, I
would have chucked immediately with a "just another arrogant fighter jock"
summary, but after interviewing him found out he was a down-to-earth really
humble person. That whole OER thing really must get deeply ingrained.
> Based on the number of politician like Generals with the dead giveaway
> "Senatorial haircut", it's doubtful that things have changed.
>
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
[email protected] wrote:
> You
> can't make any money selling on there anymore. Once you pay listing
> fees, a percentage of the sale price and then paypal fees you end up
> with about 25%. Not worth it for sellers. Plus their customer
> service sucks.
"Customer Service" is a script that replies with canned statements based
on keywords. What a joke.
Then there are the new "Detailed Seller Ratings"... <G>
As a seller, we can't see who rates us at what level, so we have no idea
who didn't like our description, shipping time, etc... One rating
less than 5 really beats up small volume folks like me.
When I first started earning DSR stars, I could tell who rated me what,
as each rating came in one at a time.
I got a "4/5" for shipping cost, when I actually paid more than I
charged the buyer for shipping. The proof was right on the box, as I
used Priority Mail. The same moron gave me a "4/5" on shipping time,
when I shipped the package the SAME DAY his money order arrived. Proof
was also on the postal label Why is he a moron? His feedback to me
said "Great deal, cheap and super fast shipping!" Go figure...
I expect, and usually get, 5/5 DSR stars on all categories, as I break
my ass to provide excellent service, underpromise and overdeliver,
anddescribe my items very conservatively. Someone who dosen't
understand the process, and may have personal belief that "nothing is
perfect in life" costs a little guy like me 1/2 a star. The effect?
DSR's change your listing placing during searches!
How can we improve if we don't know which transaction didn't earn the
5/5 by making the customer happy?
I've been using Craigslist more and more...
WD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I heard today that Ebay is suing craigslist. I for one benefitted immensely from
> craigslist. When we moved from the Midwest to SF, I sold all my woodworking
> machines, cars and other household items on craigslist. I bought most of my
> woodworking tools and two used cars in SF Bay area craigslist.
>
> What do you think, Ebay a greedy sob?
Well they're not suing for anything entirely obvious. The statment claims:
"Craigslist executives took actions that 'unfairly diluted eBay's
economic interest by more than 10%'"
What does that crap mean, exactly? I don't know. Nonetheless, if eBay is
behind it, you can be almost certain that it's not a friendly action.
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote on 24 Apr 2008 in group
rec.woodworking:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> You
>> can't make any money selling on there anymore. Once you pay listing
>> fees, a percentage of the sale price and then paypal fees you end up
>> with about 25%. Not worth it for sellers. Plus their customer
>> service sucks.
>
> "Customer Service" is a script that replies with canned statements
> based on keywords. What a joke.
>
> Then there are the new "Detailed Seller Ratings"... <G>
>
> As a seller, we can't see who rates us at what level, so we have no
> idea
> who didn't like our description, shipping time, etc... One rating
> less than 5 really beats up small volume folks like me.
>
> When I first started earning DSR stars, I could tell who rated me
> what, as each rating came in one at a time.
>
> I got a "4/5" for shipping cost, when I actually paid more than I
> charged the buyer for shipping. The proof was right on the box, as I
> used Priority Mail. The same moron gave me a "4/5" on shipping time,
> when I shipped the package the SAME DAY his money order arrived.
> Proof was also on the postal label Why is he a moron? His feedback
> to me said "Great deal, cheap and super fast shipping!" Go
> figure...
>
> I expect, and usually get, 5/5 DSR stars on all categories, as I
> break my ass to provide excellent service, underpromise and
> overdeliver, anddescribe my items very conservatively. Someone who
> dosen't understand the process, and may have personal belief that
> "nothing is perfect in life" costs a little guy like me 1/2 a star.
> The effect? DSR's change your listing placing during searches!
>
> How can we improve if we don't know which transaction didn't earn the
> 5/5 by making the customer happy?
You obviously ran into someone who understands rating systems, but not
Ebay's flawed system.
Here's the way it's supposed to work:
If you provide me with my expected level of service, I should rate you 3
out of 5. 4 would be if you gave me better-than-expected service, and
you'd get a 5 if you drove over to my house for delivery. Notice--the
only way to get a 5 is to be MUCH, MUCH better than anyone else. I would
have rated you at 4 if I didn't know how Ebay's system works.
Ebay actually has only two scores. 5 is pass, and 1-4 are fail. Everyone
eventually figures out pretty quickly not to deal with anyone below
excellent, even though excellent really means average.
--
Steve B.
New Life Home Improvement
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:45:02 -0500, "Kate" <[email protected]> wrote:
My wife just had one of those wonderful Ebay experiences this morning,
fortunately only on a $20 item..
Seller has lots of positive ratings... She even contacted one of the folks that
had bought the same product from them and got a glowing report..
Since she bought it 3 days ago, she tried to contact the seller (through Ebay)
and got a "no longer a registered Ebay seller" message...
>Boy did you hit THAT nail right on the head!
>A few years back it was bad too.
>I bought from this goofy broad who went nutso and posted negative feedback
>on nearly every buyer she had sold to then dropped off of the planet.
>
>GOOD buyers... like ME!
>
>I emailed Ebay over and over trying to get them to resolve it and never did
>get any satisfaction.
>
>Thanks to all of that, I still do not have my 100% positive feedback rating
>back, I have that one ding.
>
>Now, sellers hold feedback hostage. If you don't post positive for them then
>they won't post.
>
>I even got a notice from Ebay awhile back saying that buyers would not be
>able to post negative feedback on sellers... they were making some changes.
>I emailed them, and of course never heard a thing back.
>
>So, I've not been Ebaying much myself lately, unless it's for Jeep stuff...
>heh... gotta have my fix ya know.
>
>"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:euRPj.14827$Zk5.538@trnddc05...
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>
>Plus their customer
>> service sucks.
>What customer service?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
WD wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:17:59 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I expect, and usually get, 5/5 DSR stars on all categories, as I break
>> my ass to provide excellent service, underpromise and overdeliver,
>> anddescribe my items very conservatively. Someone who dosen't
>> understand the process, and may have personal belief that "nothing is
>> perfect in life" costs a little guy like me 1/2 a star. The effect?
>> DSR's change your listing placing during searches!
>>
>> How can we improve if we don't know which transaction didn't earn the
>> 5/5 by making the customer happy?
>>
>> I've been using Craigslist more and more...
>
> Besiding breaking your ass trying to please your customer, now you have
> PRC (Chinese) competing with you, like starting bid at $0.01.
I always start my bids at a penny, as I'm selling used items.
The inside scoop is that craigslist is getting too competitive with a
similar offering by e-bay (Kijiji.com). e-bay's offering charges for
their services where craigslist doesn't. E-bay is a greedy POS. You
can't make any money selling on there anymore. Once you pay listing
fees, a percentage of the sale price and then paypal fees you end up
with about 25%. Not worth it for sellers. Plus their customer
service sucks.
On Apr 23, 8:58=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> The inside scoop is that craigslist is getting too competitive with a
> similar offering by e-bay (Kijiji.com). =A0e-bay's offering charges for
> their services where craigslist doesn't. =A0E-bay is a greedy POS. =A0You
> can't make any money selling on there anymore. =A0Once you pay listing
> fees, a percentage of the sale price and then paypal fees you end up
> with about 25%. =A0Not worth it for sellers. =A0Plus their customer
> service sucks.
Amen. I don't sell there, but I've bought there quite a bit, and it's
now really not worth the hassle, having been burned a couple times.
I've looked at hand planes there for ages, and just last week I
stopped my email updates. Used Lie-Nielsen and Veritas planes go for
90% or more of what I can get them brand new. I'd rather establish a
relationship with the manufacturer, who's frequently willing to
provide a set screw or other part at no charge if needed. It's a no
brainer.
For other tools, there are better prices elsewhere - toolsplus,
amazon, etc... Google is your friend.
JP
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote
My wife just had one of those wonderful Ebay experiences this morning,
fortunately only on a $20 item..
--
I think mine was only a $9.00 purchase...
Oh well, lessons learned.
Now I NEVER buy from a seller unless they accept PayPal
K.
[email protected] wrote:
Plus their customer
> service sucks.
What customer service?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
B A R R Y wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ebay actually has only two scores. 5 is pass, and 1-4 are fail. Everyone
>> eventually figures out pretty quickly not to deal with anyone below
>> excellent, even though excellent really means average.
>
> Absolutely correct!
>
> Similar corporate "survey" rating systems work the same. Not knowing
> WHICH transaction received which score makes it even more useless.
One of the problems is knowing how to "rate the rater". We run into the
same problem with any kinds of surveys or assessments we do. To some
people, everybody who works for them walks on water. For other people, the
same personnel who are clearly outstanding rank only an average rating
because they meet the rater's expectations and don't "wow" them.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
In article <R0MPj.216841$pM4.83785@pd7urf1no>
"Colin B." <[email protected]> writes:
>
>Well they're not suing for anything entirely obvious. The statment claims:
>
>"Craigslist executives took actions that 'unfairly diluted eBay's
> economic interest by more than 10%'"
>
>What does that crap mean, exactly?
According to:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/04/23/no-one-puts-ebay-in-a-corner.aspx
eBay owns a stake of craigslist. So the numbers there aren't eBay's
portion of the online market, but eBay's portion of the market that
is on craigslist. The details are apparently not all public, so
it is anyone's guess whether the claim is justified or not.
--
Drew Lawson And I know there's more to the story
I know I need to see more
[email protected] I need to see s'more, hear s'more
feel s'more. I gotta be s'more
Kate wrote:
> "jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Have fun and mahalo,
> jo4hn
>
> [Kijiji?]
>
> ----
>
> I'd never even heard of it.... had to go have a look.
> Interesting to say the least.
>
> K.
>
>
I've had good luck with Kijiji here in Canada. Locally, craigslist is a
bit of a disappointment, so I guess it depends on where you live.
--
Tanus
This is not really a sig
http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/
B A R R Y wrote:
...
> On the other hand, when I'm a seller I post positive feedback on
> receipt of payment. As to holding feedback hostage, you'd be blown
> away by the number of buyers who never bother to post feedback, even
> after several intra-eBay email requests of:
...
If you have a significant number of +-ive's, what difference does one
more make?
I've never bothered to post +-ive feedback, unlikely ever would for that
reason...
If I got an e-mail, I'd almost certainly answer it (if didn't have to go
thru the p-poor eBay site, that is) but still highly unlikely to
actually post anything.
--
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:40:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> B A R R Y wrote:
>> ...
>>> On the other hand, when I'm a seller I post positive feedback on
>>> receipt of payment. As to holding feedback hostage, you'd be blown
>>> away by the number of buyers who never bother to post feedback, even
>>> after several intra-eBay email requests of:
>> ...
>>
>> If you have a significant number of +-ive's, what difference does one
>> more make?
>>
>> I've never bothered to post +-ive feedback, unlikely ever would for that
>> reason...
>>
>> If I got an e-mail, I'd almost certainly answer it (if didn't have to go
>> thru the p-poor eBay site, that is) but still highly unlikely to
>> actually post anything.
>
>
> Then why should I post it for you?
No reason...
--
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:41:21 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Then why should I post it for you?
>> No reason...
>
> Let me suggest some reasons.
>
> - To say thank you to the seller
> - To let the seller know you're happy with the transaction
> - To do your part in creating a sellers reputation (good or bad)
>
> To your point of "What does it matter?"
>
> I've been an eBay member since 11/98 with a grand total of ~ 180
> transactions, averaging 18 per year. I have a 100% positive feedback
> of 156. ...
So 157 will somehow be magically "better"? I don't think so.
Might as well reinstate the "me too" postings here in r.w for all the
good it really does. If you had none or 10 or as few as maybe even 20,
it might lend some credence. After that, the die is cast--either your
reputation is good or it isn't.
As for "thank you", it's a commercial transaction and at a distance.
I'm not making a social commitment here... :)
I've used eBay for longer than that for sure but have no count of number
of transactions -- certainly under 50, though, and as far as I know what
feedback I have received is all +-ive, but I don't know. I've bought
stuff from the quarter novelty rack to a $5,000 piece of industrial
equipment (40-ft manlift, actually). I communicated with every seller
outside the lousy eBay webmail interface to arrange shipping and or
payment (rural, nonconventional address requires that) and have
universally exchanged appropriate greetings during (and sometimes after)
those exchanges. What is seen publicly is nil, however.
--
--
Steve wrote:
>
>
> Ebay actually has only two scores. 5 is pass, and 1-4 are fail. Everyone
> eventually figures out pretty quickly not to deal with anyone below
> excellent, even though excellent really means average.
Absolutely correct!
Similar corporate "survey" rating systems work the same. Not knowing
WHICH transaction received which score makes it even more useless.
"Mark & Juanita" wrote
> One of the problems is knowing how to "rate the rater". We run into the
> same problem with any kinds of surveys or assessments we do. To some
> people, everybody who works for them walks on water. For other people,
the
> same personnel who are clearly outstanding rank only an average rating
> because they meet the rater's expectations and don't "wow" them.
In the US Army of the 60's and 70's, "Officer Efficiency Reports" (OER's),
come immediately to mind.
Out of a possible "100" whole number rating, it soon came to pass that
anything less than a "99" was a gold plated, toad sucking, slacker not
worthy of promotion.
Not to mention that it also came to pass that there were simply not enough
superlatives/adjectives in the English language to populate the intended OER
of a truly excellent officer in order make it stand out from its brethren
... they'd all been used/abused to the point of triteness.
Based on the number of politician like Generals with the dead giveaway
"Senatorial haircut", it's doubtful that things have changed.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| "B A R R Y" wrote
|
| > How can we improve if we don't know which transaction didn't earn the
| > 5/5 by making the customer happy?
| >
| > I've been using Craigslist more and more...
|
| Take this heart:
|
| http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0FOXbSJ82aA
|
I think the ones that showed up near this were even better.... LOL
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zQb6QCJTEB0&NR=1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hYfSu3JFiek&feature=related
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In the US Army of the 60's and 70's, "Officer Efficiency Reports"
> (OER's), come immediately to mind.
>
> Out of a possible "100" whole number rating, it soon came to pass that
> anything less than a "99" was a gold plated, toad sucking, slacker not
> worthy of promotion.
>
> Not to mention that it also came to pass that there were simply not
> enough superlatives/adjectives in the English language to populate the
> intended OER of a truly excellent officer in order make it stand out
> from its brethren ... they'd all been used/abused to the point of
> triteness.
Same with enlisted ratings. There were two ways to get promoted; get a
"This airman ressurects the dead." or be known widely by name. It didn't
matter Why you were widely known, just that the name was familiar. My
name was widely know as a "Hell Raiser" and that seemed to be enough.
Boy did you hit THAT nail right on the head!
A few years back it was bad too.
I bought from this goofy broad who went nutso and posted negative feedback
on nearly every buyer she had sold to then dropped off of the planet.
GOOD buyers... like ME!
I emailed Ebay over and over trying to get them to resolve it and never did
get any satisfaction.
Thanks to all of that, I still do not have my 100% positive feedback rating
back, I have that one ding.
Now, sellers hold feedback hostage. If you don't post positive for them then
they won't post.
I even got a notice from Ebay awhile back saying that buyers would not be
able to post negative feedback on sellers... they were making some changes.
I emailed them, and of course never heard a thing back.
So, I've not been Ebaying much myself lately, unless it's for Jeep stuff...
heh... gotta have my fix ya know.
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:euRPj.14827$Zk5.538@trnddc05...
[email protected] wrote:
Plus their customer
> service sucks.
What customer service?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:08:30 -0500, "Kate" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote
>My wife just had one of those wonderful Ebay experiences this morning,
>fortunately only on a $20 item..
This was paid with paypal, Kate... but they don't do the free insurance
anymore...
We're still waiting... even though Ebay no longer has them as registered
sellers, they sent an email claiming that the package was shipped on the 24th...
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:40:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>B A R R Y wrote:
>...
>> On the other hand, when I'm a seller I post positive feedback on
>> receipt of payment. As to holding feedback hostage, you'd be blown
>> away by the number of buyers who never bother to post feedback, even
>> after several intra-eBay email requests of:
>...
>
>If you have a significant number of +-ive's, what difference does one
>more make?
>
>I've never bothered to post +-ive feedback, unlikely ever would for that
>reason...
>
>If I got an e-mail, I'd almost certainly answer it (if didn't have to go
>thru the p-poor eBay site, that is) but still highly unlikely to
>actually post anything.
Then why should I post it for you?
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:45:02 -0500, "Kate" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Now, sellers hold feedback hostage. If you don't post positive for them then
>they won't post.
As of 5/1, sellers can no longer post negative feedback for buyers.
On the other hand, when I'm a seller I post positive feedback on
receipt of payment. As to holding feedback hostage, you'd be blown
away by the number of buyers who never bother to post feedback, even
after several intra-eBay email requests of:
- "Did the item arrive and was it what you expected?"
- "If the item was unsatisfactory, please let me know. If it was,
please post positive feedback."
- "Did the item arrive as you expected and in good time?"
- "eBay operates on a feedback system. I've posted positive feedback
to your account, and I'd love it if you'd do the same. If there is a
problem, please contact me at once, so I may rectify the problem."
A buyer search shows the buyer on eBay and bidding on other items, so
they got the message...
No response, NONE! No feedback... 8^( For all I know, the item was
lost by the USPS!
As a small seller, I perfectly understand sellers who won't post
feedback until the buyer will, and am changing my own policies to do
the same.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
WD wrote:
> I heard today that Ebay is suing craigslist. I for one benefitted immensely from
> craigslist. When we moved from the Midwest to SF, I sold all my woodworking
> machines, cars and other household items on craigslist. I bought most of my
> woodworking tools and two used cars in SF Bay area craigslist.
>
> What do you think, Ebay a greedy sob?
>
Hi their,
Picked this out of the business section of the LA Times:
EBAY sues Craigslist over stake
EBay Inc. sued competitor Craigslist in a dispute over whether the
Internet bulletin board tried to blunt EBay's ownership stake.
San Jose-based EBay alleged in the lawsuit that Craigslist, the Web's
dominant classifieds listing service, took "unilateral actions" to
dilute EBay's 28.4% stake by more than 10%.
The suit asked a Delaware Chancery Court to rescind the unspecified
actions to protect EBay's stockholders and preserve its stake in Craigslist.
EBay bought a minority stake in 2004 and launched its own competing
online classifieds site, call Kijiji, three years later in the U.S.
Have fun and mahalo,
jo4hn
[Kijiji?]