Abuse Your Old Glue

"Bob S." wrote:

> Question is, will they hold in the long term or has there been a
> chemical reaction now that shortens it's life span?

Good question.

When you add up the cost of all the materials, throw in say $5/hr for
your time, you quickly realize that the adhesive cost for a project is
a relatively small percentage of total project cost.

It just doen't make sense to try to use old glue except as you
describe below.

> No matter - this was just a curious exercise..... And if I ever had
> to use old glue (winter storm, can't get to the store, famine in the
> area and everybody croaked, the little guy's from Mars landed...)
> and I had to absolutely glue up some Piney boards so they would fit
> in the fireplace..... I'd use it in a flash.


Lew

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:06:34 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Frank Boettcher" wrote
>
>> On complicated glue ups, I've started doing a dry clamp, then taking a
>> digital picture, and marking the sequence. Must be old age <G>
>> I did this on a cradle that had no 90 degree angles in the
>> construction so many clamps and angle make up blocks to get it done.
>
>What ... no SWMBO in the mix?! :)

Actually, she did help on that one and, remarkably, we did not get
into a fight. :)
>
>Mine knows nothing about woodworking, but out of necessity (mine) she's
>learned to be a clamp operating champ!

"Master Chef Richard Campbell" wrote:


> OK It works. But I still won't trust it for major projects. All ten
> of the

SFWIW, last time I bought a gallon of TiteBond II, it was about $20.00
USD.

How much wood or better yet, hardware, for this project, can you buy
for $20.00?

There are better ways to reduce project costs than trying to reclaim 2
year old glue, IMHO.

Lew

On Aug 13, 8:13 pm, "Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote:

> I asked him to "abuse" the glue and do a test just to see if he got the same
> results I did. He did.

Here's something else that is strange about TB.

I had bought a couple of gallons for some big laminated beams I had to
make up, and had about a half gallon left over after the beams were
put together.

So in the time honored tradition of many years, I filled myself up a
bottle of it for the truck and tossed it in the box. I forgot about
it, and it made it migrated to the middle of the truck box and stayed
under some stuff for about a year.

We were out in the middle of nowhere, and needed some glue, but found
we didn't have any with us. Then I remembered that stuff. I pulled
it out and it was thick and lumpy. No good, right?

One of the guys had the number on his empty bottle, so I called and
talked to the tech guy myself.

"Hard lumps or soft lumps?" he asked.

"Soft, but the size of dimes and they won't come out of the spout".

"Can you get it out of the bottle? If you can, pour it all out into
something, add a TINY bit of water, then stir the lumps out. That
should get it."

Damned it if didn't work. And that glue stayed the correct
consistency for another 8-9 months until I used it all.

That tech guy told me you could also use it after it had been exposed
to freezing weather for long periods of time, just not frozen
completely solid.

I don't know, it may be some kind of voodoo employed in making that
stuff. I don't use anything else for general purpose adhesion.

Robert

On Aug 14, 7:00 am, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:

> Exactly what they told me. That's why it is good to go to the primary
> source to get info when the such source exists.

Yeah. Jobsite folklore doesn't always cut it whe the rubber meets the
road. And surprisingly, many companies still have one or two guys
that can answer real questions hanging around.

> Also told me (for III) that you can add up to ten percent water to
> increase open time in extremely high heat without any detrimental
> performance issues.

???

When I have added water, it >>seemed<< that I CUT my open time as it
was thinner. did he give you any thumb rule guidelines?
With our 100+ degree days we have here (like right now) we can use all
the help we can get.

Robert

"Swingman" wrote:


> The "open time" issue is something that somehow seems to turn
> critical in
> just about every project I've done lately ... every minute gained
> can be as
> precious as the wood itself in a one man shop glue-up.
>
> I've been using the "extend" version, and even going to weldwood on
> the
> complicated, but any extra time gained, and that could be
> quantified, would
> be "nice to know".

Time to take a look at epoxy.

Standard laminating resin and slow hardener will give you at least 30
minute pot life in 75+F weather.

Having a helper to handle the clamps allows you to not to have to be
so careful working with the epoxy, but working alone is still no deal
breaker.


Lew

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:04:58 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 14, 7:00 am, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Exactly what they told me. That's why it is good to go to the primary
>> source to get info when the such source exists.
>
>Yeah. Jobsite folklore doesn't always cut it whe the rubber meets the
>road. And surprisingly, many companies still have one or two guys
>that can answer real questions hanging around.
>
>> Also told me (for III) that you can add up to ten percent water to
>> increase open time in extremely high heat without any detrimental
>> performance issues.
>
>???
>
>When I have added water, it >>seemed<< that I CUT my open time as it
>was thinner. did he give you any thumb rule guidelines?
>With our 100+ degree days we have here (like right now) we can use all
>the help we can get.
>
>Robert


None that I can remember, and I didn't try it so can't verify.

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

> <[email protected]> wrote:


> >"Can you get it out of the bottle? If you can, pour it all out into
> >something, add a TINY bit of water, then stir the lumps out. That
> >should get it."
> >
> >Damned it if didn't work. And that glue stayed the correct
> >consistency for another 8-9 months until I used it all.
> >
> >That tech guy told me you could also use it after it had been exposed
> >to freezing weather for long periods of time, just not frozen
> >completely solid.
> >
> >I don't know, it may be some kind of voodoo employed in making that
> >stuff. I don't use anything else for general purpose adhesion.
> >
> >Robert
> >
> Exactly what they told me. That's why it is good to go to the primary
> source to get info when the such source exists.
>
> Also told me (for III) that you can add up to ten percent water to
> increase open time in extremely high heat without any detrimental
> performance issues.

I'd heard the adding a bit of water trick before, but not for increasing the
open time. Did he give any indication of how much open time you may gain by
doing so?

The "open time" issue is something that somehow seems to turn critical in
just about every project I've done lately ... every minute gained can be as
precious as the wood itself in a one man shop glue-up.

I've been using the "extend" version, and even going to weldwood on the
complicated, but any extra time gained, and that could be quantified, would
be "nice to know".

Thanks ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Master Chef Richard Campbell wrote:
> OK It works. But I still won't trust it for major projects. All ten of
> the girl's glue ups had to be broken with a hammer. She even got into
> the smashing fun. The wood broke but the glue did not. So abuse your glue.

So, you have a 100% success rate and won't trust it?

What kind of logic is this? :(

--

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FpIok.1012$T91.494@trnddc04...
> "Master Chef Richard Campbell" wrote:
>
>
>> OK It works. But I still won't trust it for major projects. All ten of
>> the
>
> SFWIW, last time I bought a gallon of TiteBond II, it was about $20.00
> USD.
>
> How much wood or better yet, hardware, for this project, can you buy for
> $20.00?
>
> There are better ways to reduce project costs than trying to reclaim 2
> year old glue, IMHO.
>
> Lew
>
>

Lew,

I asked him to "abuse" the glue and do a test just to see if he got the same
results I did. He did.

Don't think he intends to use the old glue.

But it is interesting that after shocking the glue back to life, the joints
held. Question is, will they hold in the long term or has there been a
chemical reaction now that shortens it's life span?

No matter - this was just a curious exercise..... And if I ever had to use
old glue (winter storm, can't get to the store, famine in the area and
everybody croaked, the little guy's from Mars landed...) and I had to
absolutely glue up some Piney boards so they would fit in the fireplace.....
I'd use it in a flash.

Bob S.

Bob S. wrote:
...
> I asked him to "abuse" the glue and do a test just to see if he got the same
> results I did. He did.
...

I realized later I misinterpreted the reference to which the don't trust
it phrase referred as thinking the test was on the new and a general
distrust of Titebond was being expressed instead...

--

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:31:28 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 13, 8:13 pm, "Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I asked him to "abuse" the glue and do a test just to see if he got the same
>> results I did. He did.
>
>Here's something else that is strange about TB.
>
>I had bought a couple of gallons for some big laminated beams I had to
>make up, and had about a half gallon left over after the beams were
>put together.
>
>So in the time honored tradition of many years, I filled myself up a
>bottle of it for the truck and tossed it in the box. I forgot about
>it, and it made it migrated to the middle of the truck box and stayed
>under some stuff for about a year.
>
>We were out in the middle of nowhere, and needed some glue, but found
>we didn't have any with us. Then I remembered that stuff. I pulled
>it out and it was thick and lumpy. No good, right?
>
>One of the guys had the number on his empty bottle, so I called and
>talked to the tech guy myself.
>
>"Hard lumps or soft lumps?" he asked.
>
>"Soft, but the size of dimes and they won't come out of the spout".
>
>"Can you get it out of the bottle? If you can, pour it all out into
>something, add a TINY bit of water, then stir the lumps out. That
>should get it."
>
>Damned it if didn't work. And that glue stayed the correct
>consistency for another 8-9 months until I used it all.
>
>That tech guy told me you could also use it after it had been exposed
>to freezing weather for long periods of time, just not frozen
>completely solid.
>
>I don't know, it may be some kind of voodoo employed in making that
>stuff. I don't use anything else for general purpose adhesion.
>
>Robert
>
Exactly what they told me. That's why it is good to go to the primary
source to get info when the such source exists.

Also told me (for III) that you can add up to ten percent water to
increase open time in extremely high heat without any detrimental
performance issues.

Frank

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:00:09 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Frank Boettcher" wrote
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> >"Can you get it out of the bottle? If you can, pour it all out into
>> >something, add a TINY bit of water, then stir the lumps out. That
>> >should get it."
>> >
>> >Damned it if didn't work. And that glue stayed the correct
>> >consistency for another 8-9 months until I used it all.
>> >
>> >That tech guy told me you could also use it after it had been exposed
>> >to freezing weather for long periods of time, just not frozen
>> >completely solid.
>> >
>> >I don't know, it may be some kind of voodoo employed in making that
>> >stuff. I don't use anything else for general purpose adhesion.
>> >
>> >Robert
>> >
>> Exactly what they told me. That's why it is good to go to the primary
>> source to get info when the such source exists.
>>
>> Also told me (for III) that you can add up to ten percent water to
>> increase open time in extremely high heat without any detrimental
>> performance issues.
>
>I'd heard the adding a bit of water trick before, but not for increasing the
>open time. Did he give any indication of how much open time you may gain by
>doing so?
>
If he did I don't remember a specific. Conversation took place last
summer during a string of triple digit days when I was having a time
trying to do some complicated glue ups. Cooled off after that and I
never tried it.

>The "open time" issue is something that somehow seems to turn critical in
>just about every project I've done lately ... every minute gained can be as
>precious as the wood itself in a one man shop glue-up.

On complicated glue ups, I've started doing a dry clamp, then taking a
digital picture, and marking the sequence. Must be old age <G>
I did this on a cradle that had no 90 degree angles in the
construction so many clamps and angle make up blocks to get it done.
>
>I've been using the "extend" version, and even going to weldwood on the
>complicated, but any extra time gained, and that could be quantified, would
>be "nice to know".
>
>Thanks ...

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

> On complicated glue ups, I've started doing a dry clamp, then taking a
> digital picture, and marking the sequence. Must be old age <G>
> I did this on a cradle that had no 90 degree angles in the
> construction so many clamps and angle make up blocks to get it done.

What ... no SWMBO in the mix?! :)

Mine knows nothing about woodworking, but out of necessity (mine) she's
learned to be a clamp operating champ!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)