On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
I use a DustDeputy for my shop vac and a garbage can (lid) separator
for a 2HP dust collector. Both work very well.
On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 9:47:34 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
> Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> > time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> > sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> > suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8jXS8Fjh8
I'd like to see what happens when the hose end gets stopped up and all
the force hits those connections. Having seen how much a wet-dry vac
can distort those 5 gallon buckets, I wouldn't expect too much longevity
with that set-up.
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] on Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:27:53 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:50:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] on Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:39 -0400 typed in
>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>>>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>>>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>>>>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>>>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>>>>>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>>>>>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>>>>>allow more dust to "fall out".
>>>>
>>>>Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
>>>>appreciably.
>>>>
>>>>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>Much better but TANSTAAFL.
>>>
>>> The formula is that time vs money is a constant. What you save on
>>>one, you make up in the other.
>>> Sometimes, buying "this one" is less expensive than driving all
>>>over town to find a less expensive one. Or buying rather than
>>>building means you're done, and can get onto the next thing on your
>>>list.
>>
>>Not sure what your point is but baffles just don't work. The increase
>>in resistance just can't be offset.
>
> Perhaps "baffles" was the wrong word. Something to direct the air
>flow in a direction so that gravity can work "for you".
But for gravity to work, you have to slow the air flow. That will
increase resistance and lower suction. Remember, that unlike a
compressor, no matter how much HP you throw at a vacuum, you can only
get to 1ATM. Any loss is gone forever. Cyclone separators work
because the heavier particulates are thrown out of the air stream
without reducing the air velocity (as much).
whit3rd <[email protected]> on Tue, 18 Jun 2019 02:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 6:30:32 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > Perhaps "baffles" was the wrong word. Something to direct the air
>> >flow in a direction so that gravity can work "for you".
>>
>> But for gravity to work, you have to slow the air flow. That will
>> increase resistance and lower suction.
>
>Maybe, BUT any blockage that makes vortices will accelerate the chips
>(and the air), as does a centrifugal separator. The high-dust-content
>outer edge of the vortex is where wall collisions stop the woodybits.
> It's just a balance against how much
>suction you lose when the chips CLOG THE FINAL FILTER.
>
>A real centrifugal separator can whirl so fast that even the smallest particles
>hit the sidewalls, while the (lower pressure center of the) vortex
>is flowing the near-clean air through the final filter stage.
>That sucks up lots of power, just like baffles would.
>
>Me, I work outdoors over a deck with gaps, and my nostrils are higher than the dust sources.
>The dust is mainly on the shoes.
I work over gravel and grass.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:50:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] on Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:39 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>>
>>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>>>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>>>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>>>allow more dust to "fall out".
>>
>>Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
>>appreciably.
>>
>>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>>
>>Much better but TANSTAAFL.
>
> The formula is that time vs money is a constant. What you save on
>one, you make up in the other.
> Sometimes, buying "this one" is less expensive than driving all
>over town to find a less expensive one. Or buying rather than
>building means you're done, and can get onto the next thing on your
>list.
Not sure what your point is but baffles just don't work. The increase
in resistance just can't be offset.
[email protected] on Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:27:53 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:50:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] on Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:39 -0400 typed in
>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>>>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>>>
>>>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>>>>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>>>>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>>>>allow more dust to "fall out".
>>>
>>>Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
>>>appreciably.
>>>
>>>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>>>
>>>Much better but TANSTAAFL.
>>
>> The formula is that time vs money is a constant. What you save on
>>one, you make up in the other.
>> Sometimes, buying "this one" is less expensive than driving all
>>over town to find a less expensive one. Or buying rather than
>>building means you're done, and can get onto the next thing on your
>>list.
>
>Not sure what your point is but baffles just don't work. The increase
>in resistance just can't be offset.
Perhaps "baffles" was the wrong word. Something to direct the air
flow in a direction so that gravity can work "for you".
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
>> On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>> On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
>>>>> it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
>>>>> anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
>>>>> Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
>>>>> cyclone separator?
>>>>
>>>> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
>>>> stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
>>>> for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
>>>> You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
>>>> basis of the problem.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>>>
>>>
>>> How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
>>> original paper filter that came with the vac.
>>>
>>> I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
>>> shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
>>
>> Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
>> the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
>> where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
>> area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
>> so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
>> inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
>> HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
>> be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
>> such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
>> (probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).
>>
>> I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
>> of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
>> kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
>> eliminate it.
>
>
>The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
>vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
>the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.
[email protected] on Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:30:27 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] on Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:27:53 -0400 typed in
>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:50:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>[email protected] on Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:39 -0400 typed in
>>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>>>>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>>>>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>>>>>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>>>>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>>>>>>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>>>>>>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>>>>>>allow more dust to "fall out".
>>>>>
>>>>>Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
>>>>>appreciably.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Much better but TANSTAAFL.
>>>>
>>>> The formula is that time vs money is a constant. What you save on
>>>>one, you make up in the other.
>>>> Sometimes, buying "this one" is less expensive than driving all
>>>>over town to find a less expensive one. Or buying rather than
>>>>building means you're done, and can get onto the next thing on your
>>>>list.
>>>
>>>Not sure what your point is but baffles just don't work. The increase
>>>in resistance just can't be offset.
>>
>> Perhaps "baffles" was the wrong word. Something to direct the air
>>flow in a direction so that gravity can work "for you".
>
>But for gravity to work, you have to slow the air flow. That will
>increase resistance and lower suction. Remember, that unlike a
>compressor, no matter how much HP you throw at a vacuum, you can only
>get to 1ATM. Any loss is gone forever. Cyclone separators work
>because the heavier particulates are thrown out of the air stream
>without reducing the air velocity (as much).
Ah. Note to self, that's how cyclones work.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 8:45:43 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> >time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> >sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> >suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> If you want something reasonably priced that works with a shop vac,
> <https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/10-cv06-mini>.
>
> If you really want to roll your own,
> <http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/>
I use a Dust Deputy:
https://www.amazon.com/Oneida-Molded-Dust-Deputy-Cyclone/dp/B002JP315K
I bought a 5 gallon bucket from my local Grainger store. They carry a model
that is thicker than the Home Depot/Lowes buckets. My Ridgid vac could
crush the Depot/Lowes buckets.
Not a spec of saw dust ends up in the vac.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>allow more dust to "fall out".
Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
appreciably.
> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
Much better but TANSTAAFL.
On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big stuff
and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust, for example)
from blowing through and have no problem with clogging. You don't say what
sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the basis of the problem.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[email protected] on Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:12:39 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>>which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>>out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>>allow more dust to "fall out".
>
>Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
>appreciably.
>
>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>
>Much better but TANSTAAFL.
The formula is that time vs money is a constant. What you save on
one, you make up in the other.
Sometimes, buying "this one" is less expensive than driving all
over town to find a less expensive one. Or buying rather than
building means you're done, and can get onto the next thing on your
list.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 6:30:32 AM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 20:10:15 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Perhaps "baffles" was the wrong word. Something to direct the air
> >flow in a direction so that gravity can work "for you".
>
> But for gravity to work, you have to slow the air flow. That will
> increase resistance and lower suction.
Maybe, BUT any blockage that makes vortices will accelerate the chips
(and the air), as does a centrifugal separator. The high-dust-content
outer edge of the vortex is where wall collisions stop the woodybits.
It's just a balance against how much
suction you lose when the chips CLOG THE FINAL FILTER.
A real centrifugal separator can whirl so fast that even the smallest particles
hit the sidewalls, while the (lower pressure center of the) vortex
is flowing the near-clean air through the final filter stage.
That sucks up lots of power, just like baffles would.
Me, I work outdoors over a deck with gaps, and my nostrils are higher than the dust sources.
The dust is mainly on the shoes.
On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
> On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big stuff
>> and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust, for
>> example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging. You
>> don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the basis
>> of the problem.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>
> How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the original
> paper filter that came with the vac.
>
> I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the shop vac
> for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for the
vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag where the
hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface area, doubled
over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful so it just sucks
air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind inside. Anything
super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the HEPA filter.
Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to be used together
but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any such option but mine,
being German, is probably over-engineered (probably over-priced too but
nothing I can do about that).
I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot of
heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a kludge
with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't eliminate it.
Jack <[email protected]> on Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:16:57 -0400 typed
in rec.woodworking the following:
>On 6/12/2019 5:26 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>> which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>> out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>> allow more dust to "fall out".
>
>That's what I did with my regular dust collector. That was way before
>the internet telling me it wouldn't work without huge horsepower, and
>all that stuff.
>
>I figured when the high pressure/velocity in the small intake hose hit
>the 40 gallon drum (essentually a 22" hose) the pressure drop would
>cause the sawdust to drop out into the drum. Next, I figured the intake
>hoses should direct the dust in a circular manner, around the outside of
>the drum, causing the heavier stuff to fall to the sides. This has
>served me well over the years, and I hook all my large machinery up to
>it w/o problems, including jointer, planer, TS. Almost no sawdust gets
>to the collector which is about 25 feet away, though all sorts of turns
>and twists.
>
>http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020457.jpg
>http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020458.jpg
>
>I have since these pictures added a 4" hose for my 15" planer, and 3"
>hose for my 6" jointer. It never clogs up, but the collector does get
>fine powder in it and needs cleaned a couple times a year. I don't hook
>my 48" belt, 10" disk sander to it anymore, but just use the shop vac as
>that fine powder does get through more than I'd like.
>
>This collector doesn't have a 200 hp diesel engine powering it however,
>and would be what most would consider under powered, but it sure works
>and that's what I care about. My collector is high volume, low pressure
>whereas a shop vac is low volume high pressure.
>
>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>
>I've seen lots of Youtube videos of these, including the Thein baffle,
>and they don't seem to work any better than my system, some a little
>worse. I've been thinking of making a smaller setup like this for one
>of my shop vacs, but really, I don't empty them but once it a while
>since most of the work is done by my big collector. The fine dust
>(powder) you get from sanding is going to get to your filter without
>Herculien effort to remove it first. That's why they have filters on
>them. My shop vacs can handle the dust on the filters rather well, and
>I can easily fill up the small 5 gallon can with dust covering the filter.
>
>Also, my pictures show el fittings in the drum, but I noticed my shop
>vacs just have a straight pipe with an endcap, and a hole/notch cut in
>the side to direct the air around the outside of the drum, that would be
>easy to implement as well.
Primo!
If it works, it's not stupid.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
allow more dust to "fall out".
Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:52:12 -0400, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
>>> On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
>>>>>> it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
>>>>>> anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
>>>>>> Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
>>>>>> cyclone separator?
>>>>>
>>>>> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
>>>>> stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
>>>>> for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
>>>>> You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
>>>>> basis of the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
>>>> original paper filter that came with the vac.
>>>>
>>>> I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
>>>> shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
>>>
>>> Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
>>> the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
>>> where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
>>> area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
>>> so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
>>> inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
>>> HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
>>> be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
>>> such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
>>> (probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).
>>>
>>> I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
>>> of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
>>> kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
>>> eliminate it.
>>
>>
>>The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
>>vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
>>the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
>
>It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.
One of the BORG vacs (Ridgid) I bought has a bag. I was rather
surprised by it.
Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8jXS8Fjh8
On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
>> it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything
>> to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone
>> have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
> stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust, for
> example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging. You
> don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the basis
> of the problem.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
original paper filter that came with the vac.
I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the shop
vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
On 6/11/2019 10:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> I use a DustDeputy for my shop vac and a garbage can (lid) separator
> for a 2HP dust collector. Both work very well.
>
That's two votes for the Dust Deputy. I'll have to consider if I don't
feel like making my own.
Thanks
On 6/11/2019 10:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 9:47:34 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
>> Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8jXS8Fjh8
>
> I'd like to see what happens when the hose end gets stopped up and all
> the force hits those connections. Having seen how much a wet-dry vac
> can distort those 5 gallon buckets, I wouldn't expect too much longevity
> with that set-up.
>
I would use larger fittings for this project not only to ease the flow
but the larger shop vacs have 2" hoses. I assume he made it to fit a
smaller vac which he uses.
On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
> On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
>> On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>>> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
>>>> it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
>>>> anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
>>>> Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
>>>> cyclone separator?
>>>
>>> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
>>> stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
>>> for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
>>> You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
>>> basis of the problem.
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>>
>>
>> How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
>> original paper filter that came with the vac.
>>
>> I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
>> shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
>
> Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
> the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
> where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
> area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
> so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
> inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
> HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
> be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
> such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
> (probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).
>
> I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
> of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
> kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
> eliminate it.
The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
On 6/12/2019 5:26 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
> rec.woodworking the following:
>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>
> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
> which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
> out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
> allow more dust to "fall out".
That's what I did with my regular dust collector. That was way before
the internet telling me it wouldn't work without huge horsepower, and
all that stuff.
I figured when the high pressure/velocity in the small intake hose hit
the 40 gallon drum (essentually a 22" hose) the pressure drop would
cause the sawdust to drop out into the drum. Next, I figured the intake
hoses should direct the dust in a circular manner, around the outside of
the drum, causing the heavier stuff to fall to the sides. This has
served me well over the years, and I hook all my large machinery up to
it w/o problems, including jointer, planer, TS. Almost no sawdust gets
to the collector which is about 25 feet away, though all sorts of turns
and twists.
http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020457.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/dc1020458.jpg
I have since these pictures added a 4" hose for my 15" planer, and 3"
hose for my 6" jointer. It never clogs up, but the collector does get
fine powder in it and needs cleaned a couple times a year. I don't hook
my 48" belt, 10" disk sander to it anymore, but just use the shop vac as
that fine powder does get through more than I'd like.
This collector doesn't have a 200 hp diesel engine powering it however,
and would be what most would consider under powered, but it sure works
and that's what I care about. My collector is high volume, low pressure
whereas a shop vac is low volume high pressure.
> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
I've seen lots of Youtube videos of these, including the Thein baffle,
and they don't seem to work any better than my system, some a little
worse. I've been thinking of making a smaller setup like this for one
of my shop vacs, but really, I don't empty them but once it a while
since most of the work is done by my big collector. The fine dust
(powder) you get from sanding is going to get to your filter without
Herculien effort to remove it first. That's why they have filters on
them. My shop vacs can handle the dust on the filters rather well, and
I can easily fill up the small 5 gallon can with dust covering the filter.
Also, my pictures show el fittings in the drum, but I noticed my shop
vacs just have a straight pipe with an endcap, and a hole/notch cut in
the side to direct the air around the outside of the drum, that would be
easy to implement as well.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
On 6/12/2019 8:52 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
>>> of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
>>> kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
>>> eliminate it.
>>
>>
>> The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
>> vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
>> the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
>
> It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.
My 40+ year old American made, wet or dry ShopVac used bags. I just
brushed them off and used them until they got holes in them. No hepa
crap, no dust, just lots of ear bleeding noise. I finally gave up on
waiting for the damned thing to break, and replaced it with a nice,
quiet Ridged. I'm trying to throw away the ShopVac, but have trouble
throwing anything away, particularly if it works.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
On 6/12/2019 11:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:52:12 -0400, J. Clarke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:42:53 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/12/2019 9:46 AM, John McGaw wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/2019 10:25 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/2019 9:13 PM, John McGaw wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/2019 8:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided
>>>>>>> it's time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't
>>>>>>> anything to stop sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator.
>>>>>>> Thus, anyone have any suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a
>>>>>>> cyclone separator?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just use these expensive paper bags in my Fein to collect the big
>>>>>> stuff and their HEPA filter to keep anything escaping (plaster dust,
>>>>>> for example) from blowing through and have no problem with clogging.
>>>>>> You don't say what sort of filtration your vac has. Maybe that is the
>>>>>> basis of the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007SXLCE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How are you using the paper bag in a shop vac? I'm still using the
>>>>> original paper filter that came with the vac.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do have a dust collection system for my bigger tools but use the
>>>>> shop vac for smaller hand tools and of course to clean the shop mess.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know what you mean by "how". The bags in question are meant for
>>>> the vacuum in question -- see the little port in the side of the bag
>>>> where the hose feeds in. The paper is thin and has a very large surface
>>>> area, doubled over in the large canister, and the motor is very powerful
>>>> so it just sucks air through the bag's surface leaving the dross behind
>>>> inside. Anything super-fine that gets through the bag is trapped by the
>>>> HEPA filter. Theoretically I don't think that both methods are meant to
>>>> be used together but I do it anyway. I don't know if your vac has any
>>>> such option but mine, being German, is probably over-engineered
>>>> (probably over-priced too but nothing I can do about that).
>>>>
>>>> I found that my DC _did_ get clogged by fine dust when I was doing a lot
>>>> of heavy sanding and the bag had to be beaten to loosen it. I set up a
>>>> kludge with a second bag and that alleviated the problem but didn't
>>>> eliminate it.
>>>
>>>
>>> The bag looks like one for an upright vacuum which is why I asked. Shop
>>> vacs (at least mine and most) have the conical filter which wraps around
>>> the center exhaust. I've never seen a bag for one.
>>
>> It may be a European thing. Festool vacs use bags too.
>
> One of the BORG vacs (Ridgid) I bought has a bag. I was rather
> surprised by it.
>
I now have 2 Ridged vacs, and both have canisters. They're around 5
years old, not sure. My very old ShopVac has a bag though. The bag
worked just as well as the canister, far as I can tell, but was easier
to clean.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
On 6/12/2019 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:26:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Meanie <[email protected]> on Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> Easy plan is that somewhere upstream of the filter, put a "box"
>> which is much larger than the hose, where in the 'larger' chunks fall
>> out. With baffles you can cause eddies in the air flow which will
>> allow more dust to "fall out".
>
> Baffles will increase the air resistance, thus drop the suction
> appreciably.
True but all you need is to get the air spinning in a circular pattern
and let the heavier than air dust fall to the sides, with the clean,
lighter air sucked up the middle. That's how cyclones work, no need to
get too fancy.
>> Or buy a small cyclone unit to do the same thing.
>
> Much better but TANSTAAFL.
Not exacly true. See jbstein.com.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
On 6/12/19 5:59 AM, Meanie wrote:
> On 6/11/2019 10:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>
>> I use a DustDeputy for my shop vac and a garbage can (lid) separator
>> for a 2HP dust collector. Both work very well.
>>
>
> That's two votes for the Dust Deputy. I'll have to consider if I don't
> feel like making my own.
>
> Thanks
I had the same issues with an old (70's) Craftsman vac with a pleated
filter. Easy enough to knock clean but constantly "doing its job".
This vac is now dedicated to my ROS and I use the small dust deputy
designed for a 5-gallon bucket. The DD is expensive for what it is but
after waiting for some good coupon/shipping deals I feel _ok_ about the
price. Functionally it is excellent and I only bother to clean the
filter when my bucket gets about half full and needs to be emptied. I
used the Rockler hose/adapter kit for the connections from the DD to my
ROS and router, also expensive but totally functional. Your project
after getting these parts will be to construct a cart to combine the vac
and DD into a unit that wont tip over and can still be portable/wheeled
to where you need it.
This is one of those things where spending some money up front creates
something that you wish you had done long ago.
You can build your own cyclone and save some $$, just depends on your
time/money ratio.
-BR
On 6/15/2019 9:42 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 6/12/19 5:59 AM, Meanie wrote:
>> On 6/11/2019 10:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>>>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to
>>>> stop
>>>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>>>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
>>>
>>> I use a DustDeputy for my shop vac and a garbage can (lid) separator
>>> for a 2HP dust collector. Both work very well.
>>>
>>
>> That's two votes for the Dust Deputy. I'll have to consider if I don't
>> feel like making my own.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> I had the same issues with an old (70's) Craftsman vac with a pleated
> filter. Easy enough to knock clean but constantly "doing its job".
>
> This vac is now dedicated to my ROS and I use the small dust deputy
> designed for a 5-gallon bucket. The DD is expensive for what it is but
> after waiting for some good coupon/shipping deals I feel _ok_ about the
> price. Functionally it is excellent and I only bother to clean the
> filter when my bucket gets about half full and needs to be emptied. I
> used the Rockler hose/adapter kit for the connections from the DD to my
> ROS and router, also expensive but totally functional. Your project
> after getting these parts will be to construct a cart to combine the vac
> and DD into a unit that wont tip over and can still be portable/wheeled
> to where you need it.
>
>
> This is one of those things where spending some money up front creates
> something that you wish you had done long ago.
> You can build your own cyclone and save some $$, just depends on your
> time/money ratio.
>
> -BR
Sometimes I'm cheap, other times I'm not, though much depends on the
cost. Much has to do whether I want to spend the time building or simply
buying. At around $50 for the DD, I may just buy.
Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6/11/2019 10:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 9:47:34 PM UTC-4, Spalted Walt wrote:
> >> Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> >>> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> >>> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> >>> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8jXS8Fjh8
> >
> > I'd like to see what happens when the hose end gets stopped up and all
> > the force hits those connections. Having seen how much a wet-dry vac
> > can distort those 5 gallon buckets, I wouldn't expect too much longevity
> > with that set-up.
> >
>
> I would use larger fittings for this project not only to ease the flow
> but the larger shop vacs have 2" hoses. I assume he made it to fit a
> smaller vac which he uses.
Matthias kicks it up a few notches and adds a Thein baffle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-xhYnWDCd0
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:34:38 -0400, Meanie <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
>time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
>sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
>suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
If you want something reasonably priced that works with a shop vac,
<https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/10-cv06-mini>.
If you really want to roll your own,
<http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/>
On 6/11/2019 7:34 PM, Meanie wrote:
> I'm tired of the sawdust induced filter in my shop vac and decided it's
> time to get a better filter, which I assume there isn't anything to stop
> sawdust clogging, or make a cyclone separator. Thus, anyone have any
> suggestions for a filter or easy plans for a cyclone separator?
These filters, because of an old inferior vac design will always clog
quickly. I had one and bought the expensive replacement filter. The
only thing I gained was a faster to clean filter. I had to unclog it
just as often.
All better vacs, home, shop, what ever, have the debris go into the bag
and then the filter works on the fine dust that passes through the
collection bag.
If you stick with a typical shop vac you need to use something like a
cyclone prefilter,
Festool and probably Fein have all debris go straight into the bag and
the exhaust then passes through a HEPA filter. My 10 year old Festool
HEPA filters have never been cleaned and appear to never need to be cleaned.
FWIW my CT 22 Festool Vac gets used on all of my Festool sanders, Track
Saw, and Domino. I do not run any of these tools with out that Festool vac.
I change bags, on a heavy year of usage, twice a year and then I toss
them. Keep in mind this does not collect planer, drum sander, lathe, or
table saw dust. The Festool bags are very efficient, the 22 liter bag
is packed solidly full before I notice any loss in suction.