Advice Wanted On This Trim Project

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:23:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/14/17 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>>>> to the surface.
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>>>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>>>
>>>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>>>
>>>
>>> 1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>>> 2. What I install won't be "naked."
>>
>> Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
>> to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
>> using PT doesn't help this problem at all.
>>
>
>I covered that. Pun.

Then there is no point in using PT, which was my point.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 07:47:45 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 10/14/2017 6:55 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>>> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.
>>>
>>> Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Then you print it out on a dot matrix printer like a banner, same as in
>> 1983. You still have that printer don't you?
>
>As a matter of fact I do. A brand new, never used Okidata. A box of
>tractor paper too.
>

Is tractor paper what you put on their seats when you service them? ;)

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:15:23 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > Is tractor paper what you put on their seats when you service them? ;)
>
> It's the stuff you put under the old one that just can't stop leaking.
>
> Even my brand new tractor had to be paper trained. :-)
>

Did you say "tractor paper" or "paper tractor"?

http://www.aenima.agency/blog/paper-model-for-john-deere/

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:

>> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
>> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
>> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
>> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
>> put it off 'til spring.
>>
>> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>>
>> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
>
>None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.

Or just maybe the local climate makes a difference in the longevity
of pressure treated softwoods.

On 10/14/2017 6:55 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.
>
> Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.
>
>

Then you print it out on a dot matrix printer like a banner, same as in
1983. You still have that printer don't you?

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:18:38 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>...
>
>Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
>the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
Looking at the picture the bricks and the board look to be pretty
well flush, - so it WILL need to be scribed to fit

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 9:14:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 10/14/2017 6:55 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> > "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
> >>
> >>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
> >>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
> >>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas?
> >>
> >> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.
> >
> > Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.
> >
> >
>
> Then you print it out on a dot matrix printer like a banner, same as in
> 1983. You still have that printer don't you?

..and if you don't have the printer:

http://dotmatrixprinting.com/

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 5:59:44 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>=20
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is=20
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a=20
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated=
=20
> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>=20
> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the=20
> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.=20
> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by=20
> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius=
.
>=20
> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch=20
> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to=20
> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to=
=20
> the new 2x12.
>=20
> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even=20
> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"=20
> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>=20
> Any ideas?
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> -MIKE-
>=20
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> www.mikedrums.com

Protect the door and rip out the wood back to clean bricks. Rip some Luan o=
r door skin into 2'x8', however many it takes to span the opening at ground=
level. Tack it together and tack it to the frame so it stands verticaly. =
Drop a plumb bob from the bricks to the luan and make a mark. Touch each =
brick or every few inches, whatever works for you, and make a mark. Work s=
ide to side plotting as you go. Connect the dots and cut on the line to de=
scribe a rough copy of the arch. Hold it up and scribe it close for a good=
fit. Transfer the arc to the new material. Works every time.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:49:27 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>
>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
>> the new 2x12.
>>
>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
>You're dealing with a kinda elliptical segmental arch.
>http://www.sweethaven02.com/BldgConst/Bldg02/fig0748.jpg
>
>Rather than trying to transfer the archline with large dividers, what
>about cheap, narrow, double sided tape along the curved bottom face
>of the soldiers?
>https://www.harborfreight.com/8-1-2-half-ft-x-3-4-quarter-inch-double-sided-tape-45882.html
>
>Since dimensions weren't given let's say the arch is 16' wide, and
>the top of the soldiers are 20" at the peak (pinnacle?) of the arch.
>
>From a 4X8 sheet of lauan (or cheap thin ply) rip 2 ea. 15" X 8' pieces.
>Divide the task in half (left half & right half). Measure/mark the center of the keystone.
>
>Right side - From that mark, lightly apply the double sided tape
>directly to the brick all the way to the bottom of the arch.
>
>Since you've got that piece of molding protruding outward, ruining
>the length of the span under the arch, rest the factory edge of one
>of the 15" X 8' pieces of ply on it and apply just enough pressure to
>get the tape to stick to the smooth, CLEAN ply.
>Carfully remove said ply ,aking sure the tape stays on and voila!
>
>Using the other piece of ply, do the above for the left side as well.
>
>* Hopefully the tape will not adhere to the dirty rough bricks as
>strongly as it will to the CLEAN smooth ply but you'd prolly want to
>test it first. If it does stick to brick too much, apply blue
>painter's tape to the bricks 1st, then the double sided tape.
Hustvlay the darn thing out with a tape measue and a square. From
the lintel, measure up at a right angle to the arch every 2 inches,
then "spline" it in on a full size pattern.

OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Is tractor paper what you put on their seats when you service them? ;)

It's the stuff you put under the old one that just can't stop leaking.

Even my brand new tractor had to be paper trained. :-)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:24:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:15:03 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>> >> >>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> >> >>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>> >> >>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>> >> >>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>> >> >>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>> >> >>> prepainted.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>> >> >>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>> >> >> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>> >> >> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>> >> >> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>> >> >2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>> >> >fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>> >> >don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>> >> >to the surface.
>> >>
>> >> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>> >> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>> >>
>> >> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>> >
>> >What's your definition of "doesn't last" and "not very long"?
>>
>> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
>> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
>> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
>> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
>> put it off 'til spring.
>>
>> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>>
>> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
>
>None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.

Amazing. The CCA stuff was a lot better, sure, but water still did it
in. I had that stuff shred on decks, too.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>>I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>wants cheapest option.)
>>
>>What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>
>>If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>
>>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>
>It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>below.
>
>I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>Scott in Dunedin


I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
"reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.

There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:19:34 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/13/17 1:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:05:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>>>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>>>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>>>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>>>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>>>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>>>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>>>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>>>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>>>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>>>>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>>>>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>>>>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>>>>> below.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>>>>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>>>>> Scott in Dunedin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
>>>> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
>>>> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
>>>> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
>>>> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
>>>> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
>>>> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>>>>
>>>> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
>>>> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
>>>> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
>>>> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
>>> white board.
>>> If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?
>> I'd say it's not a lintel, but a simple "jam" for the garage door.
>> Looks to me like a door kit too low for the opening was installed
>> under the arch of the opening.
>>
>
>There is definitely a steel plate between the rotted wood piece and the
>wood header.
Then someone was an idiot when they "designed" it.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:55:19 -0400, Larry Kraus <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>
>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
>> the new 2x12.
>>
>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple degrees
>of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can be easily
>planed off.
>
>Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.

The drip edge idea is a winner. Caulk, to make sure no water gets
behind it. Paint should protect the surface well enough, as long as
no water is allowed to get around the edges and sit.

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
>That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>prepainted.
>
>Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.

Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
wood isn't as saturated as the surface.

Mike, as many have said, make a template (paper, etc)- and we all know you thought of that.
I would make the template, leaving everything in place, transfer it to a piece of 1/4" ply and shape it to fit.

THEN remove the existing board, cut the new board to rough shape, template rout to final shape and install.

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:15:03 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
> >> >>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> >> >>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
> >> >>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
> >> >>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
> >> >>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
> >> >>> prepainted.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
> >> >>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
> >> >> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
> >> >> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
> >> >> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >1. I have liquid wood preservative.
> >> >2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
> >> >fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
> >> >don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
> >> >to the surface.
> >>
> >> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
> >> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
> >>
> >> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
> >
> >What's your definition of "doesn't last" and "not very long"?
>
> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
> put it off 'til spring.
>
> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>
> Without waterproofing, of some sort?

None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:03:22 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that)
>> up on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch
>> board, or level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions.
>> Then I'd scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing
>> curve. This could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a
>> board that is as long as the distance from the bottom of the curved
>> board to the maximum height of the curve and a pencil could be
>> substituted. In either case make sure the scriber is plumb as you move
>> across the length of the board. Any roughness in the scribed line can be
>> smoothed out during and after cutting the board... a slight undercut
>> would help with the fitting.
>>
>> Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
>> narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from
>> cutting the curve. It would hold up better than wood.
>>
>
>Great advice. Thanks.
>PVC is a fortune around here, I don't see the client going for it.
I'd set the trim board back a bit behind the brick line and run a
drip mold on it and on the top of the door frame, and prime and paint
all the edges before installing. It's not weight bearing? I'd really
think about cedar 1X instead of PT - likely last a lot longer.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:47:10 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/12/17 10:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:27:35 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>> On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
>>>> the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
>>>>
>>>
>>> There bricks and board are on the same plane.
>>> What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks.
>>> I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course
>>> of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,
>>> not behind the bricks.
>> Sure doesn't look like an original setup. Someones been fiddling
>> before. Origionally the door fit BEHIND the brick and was a higher
>> door.(possibly 5 panel, or larger panels) He or someone before him
>> "cheaped out" once before and now it's coming back to bite him.
>>
>
>The guy definitely "cheaped out" from the testimony of all the home
>owners around here, but it is indeed original.
>A lot of these houses have these arched facades over straight openings,
>just to create the illusion.
Bur nit done the way that one is done. I'll bet most of the others
have the door reACHING TO THE TOP OF THE ARCH,

On 10/13/2017 4:11 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 13-Oct-17 2:53 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> The jam is typically under the steel angle iron that supports the brick
>> and or in this case the arched 2x12.
>
> No wonder it rotted...all that sugar!  (missing a 'b' here we are... :)
> )  Of course, the portion in question is the head; the jambs are the two
> verticals.  And, yes, slap me w/ the pedant noodle... :)
>
> --
>


LOL.... Darn Spell Checker. Made Jelly into Jam. l~)

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22

I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)

..

Any ideas?

To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that) up
on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch board, or
level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions. Then I'd
scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing curve. This
could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a board that is as
long as the distance from the bottom of the curved board to the maximum
height of the curve and a pencil could be substituted. In either case make
sure the scriber is plumb as you move across the length of the board. Any
roughness in the scribed line can be smoothed out during and after cutting
the board... a slight undercut would help with the fitting.

Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from cutting
the curve. It would hold up better than wood.

On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>
> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
> the new 2x12.
>
> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple degrees
of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can be easily
planed off.

Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.

On 10/12/2017 6:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
>> On 2017-10-12 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to
>>> the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or
>>> trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine
>>> the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines
>>> to find the radius.
>>>
>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>>> to the new 2x12.
>>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>> Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with
>> the demolition?
>>
>
> I would do that as first step but before cutting the wood, I'd transfer
> it to cardboard or hardboard to be sure of the fit.
>
> I'm impressed that the builder made the arch like that.  So many
> buildings are just plain boxes.
>
>
Well IMHO technically the builder made a fancy but poorly thought out
design. The bricks should never be sitting on top of wood. That
designed was destined to fail.

How this was done,,,,

The brick mason made a template to hold the bricks into that arch
design and used the same template to transfer the arc to the 2x12.

Or the 2x12 was cut and in place and the brick mason stacked bricks on
top of that.

On 10/12/2017 7:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> ..
>
> Any ideas?
>
> To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that) up
> on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch board, or
> level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions. Then I'd
> scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing curve. This
> could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a board that is as
> long as the distance from the bottom of the curved board to the maximum
> height of the curve and a pencil could be substituted. In either case make
> sure the scriber is plumb as you move across the length of the board. Any
> roughness in the scribed line can be smoothed out during and after cutting
> the board... a slight undercut would help with the fitting.
>
> Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
> narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from cutting
> the curve. It would hold up better than wood.
>
>
I'd think that scribing would be a great idea. It needs to be carefully
done, keeping the compass (or whatever equivalent is being used) perfectly
vertical all the time. I've done it using a stick with a pencil stub taped
to it -- not the best solution but I didn't have a proper compass at the time.

From looking at that picture I'd be more concerned about the structural
integrity of the whole opening. I hope that the existing wood isn't
actually supporting those bricks even slightly -- the arch isn't deep
enough to be in any way self-supporting.

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>> >On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
>> >> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
>> >> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
>> >> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
>> >> put it off 'til spring.
>> >>
>> >> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>> >>
>> >> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
>> >
>> >None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.
>>
>> Or just maybe the local climate makes a difference in the longevity
>> of pressure treated softwoods.
>
>The decks/walkways in question see an average of 35" of rain and 85" of snow
>per year. Both areas get shoveled, so they are rarely snow covered for any
>length of time. Neither area gets any sun to speak of.

And around here, we're lucky to get 15" total moisture annually (99% from
November through April). PT lasts a long time.

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>>>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>>>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>>several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>>onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>>Any ideas?
>>
>> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.
>
>Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.
>

Use a pantograph from the original photo to the board itself.

On 10/13/2017 10:55 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:
> On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the
>> radius.
>>
>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>> to the new 2x12.
>>
>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
> Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple degrees
> of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can be easily
> planed off.
>
> Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.

Exactly! At least several coats of sealer/paint on all sides before
installing. The brick will always weep water onto the top of the arc.

On 10/13/2017 5:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>>> There is definitely a steel plate between the rotted wood piece and the
>>> wood header.
>>    Then someone was an idiot when they "designed" it.
>>
>
> You won't find an argument from this guy.
>
>

It is hard to do but sometimes it is best to just walk away from these
type jobs.

On 10/14/2017 10:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/14/17 8:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 10/13/2017 10:55 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>
>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12
>>>> is rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>
>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to
>>>> the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or
>>>> trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine
>>>> the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines
>>>> to find the radius.
>>>>
>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of
>>>> bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple
>>> degrees of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can
>>> be easily planed off.
>>>
>>> Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.
>>
>> Exactly!  At least several coats of sealer/paint on all sides before
>> installing.  The brick will always weep water onto the top of the arc.
>
> I'm hoping to find a "drier" 2x12 so I can prime, but in any case, I may
> put some flashing tape along the top edge.
>
>
Maybe spray some of that rubberized sealant on before painting.

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:31:53 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/14/17 6:29 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:23:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/14/17 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>>>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>>>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>>>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>>>>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>>>>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>>>>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>>>>>> to the surface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>>>>>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>>>>> 2. What I install won't be "naked."
>>>>
>>>> Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
>>>> to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
>>>> using PT doesn't help this problem at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I covered that. Pun.
>>
>> Then there is no point in using PT, which was my point.
>>
>
>Sure there is.
>But you just argue in circles in here for your own enjoyment so you have
>fun.

If you don't want to have a conversation, you really don't have to
answer me. ...or am I that threatening to your manhood?

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:15:03 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>> >>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> >>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>> >>>
>> >>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>> >>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>> >>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>> >>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>> >>> prepainted.
>> >>>
>> >>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>> >>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>> >>
>> >> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>> >> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>> >> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>> >> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>> >>
>> >
>> >1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>> >2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>> >fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>> >don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>> >to the surface.
>>
>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>
>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>
>What's your definition of "doesn't last" and "not very long"?

The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
put it off 'til spring.

>I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.

Without waterproofing, of some sort?

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
> >> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
> >> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
> >> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
> >> put it off 'til spring.
> >>
> >> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
> >>
> >> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
> >
> >None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.
>
> Or just maybe the local climate makes a difference in the longevity
> of pressure treated softwoods.

The decks/walkways in question see an average of 35" of rain and 85" of snow
per year. Both areas get shoveled, so they are rarely snow covered for any
length of time. Neither area gets any sun to speak of.

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:15:03 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
> >>>>
> >>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
> >>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> >>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
> >>>
> >>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
> >>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
> >>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
> >>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
> >>> prepainted.
> >>>
> >>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
> >>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
> >>
> >> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
> >> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
> >> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
> >> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
> >>
> >
> >1. I have liquid wood preservative.
> >2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
> >fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
> >don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
> >to the surface.
>
> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>
> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/

What's your definition of "doesn't last" and "not very long"?

I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.

On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
> On 2017-10-12 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the
>> radius.
>>
>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>> to the new 2x12.
>>
>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
> Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with the
> demolition?
>

I would do that as first step but before cutting the wood, I'd transfer
it to cardboard or hardboard to be sure of the fit.

I'm impressed that the builder made the arch like that. So many
buildings are just plain boxes.

I think the rotted board is not supporting the bricks, if those bricks are =
full size bricks. There's probably some metal support (I-beam?) behind the=
rotted board, supporting the brick wall (and maybe partially the arch).

To me, the (upright) brick arch is simply decoration, probably not full bri=
cks. Its arc is not supporting the brick wall and that should be obvious =
by the fact that the bricks adjacent to the keystone have been cut, inappro=
priately, defeating the purpose of a true keystone function. If the rotte=
d board was for support, then likely the bricks and mortar, above, would ha=
ve cracks, somewhere. The rotted board, I suspect, is simply a space fille=
r.

Large/long pieces of cardboard would be my choice for pattern making. Mig=
ht only need to scribe half the span, i.e., mirror image halves. If it's d=
iscovered that the board isn't for support, then you wouldn't need to cut a=
full length board for replacement. Two boards connected by a lap joint wo=
uld be easier to 1) dry fit and 2) for final installment for a good tight f=
it at the pointy ends. Caulk first, before permanently jamming the boards=
/"pointies" in.

Sonny

-MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22

>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
>Any ideas?

Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:27:39 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
> > On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> >>> "-MIKE-"=C2=A0 wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
> >>>
> >>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> >>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> >>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treat=
ed
> >>> 2x12.=C2=A0 (Client wants cheapest option.)
> > ...
> >=20
> > Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front o=
f=20
> > the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
> >=20
>=20
> There bricks and board are on the same plane.
> What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks=
.
> I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course=
=20
> of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,=
=20
> not behind the bricks.
>=20
>=20
That concerns me a bit. It sounds like the lintel is acting as a header
and the curved board is (was) acting as the lintel for the bricks. Granted,=
=20
the arch of the brick itself, although it's not much, probably helps suppor=
t
the brick *somewhat* but not that much.

Is there a gap between the rotted wood and the brick or is the brick restin=
g
on the wood? If the wood is supposed to be supporting the brick above, you=
=20
better get it right and get it right fast.

On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 9:58:19 AM UTC-4, Brewster wrote:
> On 10/17/17 6:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
> >>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
> >>>>> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
> >>>>> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
> >>>>> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
> >>>>> put it off 'til spring.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
> >>>>
> >>>> None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.
> >>>
> >>> Or just maybe the local climate makes a difference in the longevity
> >>> of pressure treated softwoods.
> >>
> >> The decks/walkways in question see an average of 35" of rain and 85" of snow
> >> per year. Both areas get shoveled, so they are rarely snow covered for any
> >> length of time. Neither area gets any sun to speak of.
> >
> > And around here, we're lucky to get 15" total moisture annually (99% from
> > November through April). PT lasts a long time.
> >
>
> In these parts we get more rain in a year than most places get in a
> single day. PT lumber typically dissolves from UV exposure.
>
> -BR

Which may explain why my decks and walkways have lasted for so long.

They get so little sun, they don't even know how to spell UV.

On 10/13/2017 1:30 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:47:10 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/17 10:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:27:35 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>>> On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>>>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
>>>>> the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There bricks and board are on the same plane.
>>>> What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks.
>>>> I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course
>>>> of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,
>>>> not behind the bricks.
>>> Sure doesn't look like an original setup. Someones been fiddling
>>> before. Origionally the door fit BEHIND the brick and was a higher
>>> door.(possibly 5 panel, or larger panels) He or someone before him
>>> "cheaped out" once before and now it's coming back to bite him.
>>>
>>
>> The guy definitely "cheaped out" from the testimony of all the home
>> owners around here, but it is indeed original.
>> A lot of these houses have these arched facades over straight openings,
>> just to create the illusion.
> Bur nit done the way that one is done. I'll bet most of the others
> have the door reACHING TO THE TOP OF THE ARCH,
>

Perhaps but I have several doors done exactly like this back about 30
years ago. A poor design by the architect.

On 10/13/2017 1:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:05:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>
>>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>>>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>>>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>>>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>>>> below.
>>>>
>>>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>>>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>>>> Scott in Dunedin
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
>>> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
>>> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
>>> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
>>> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
>>> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
>>> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>>>
>>> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
>>> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
>>> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
>>> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>>>
>>
>> The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
>> white board.
>> If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?
> I'd say it's not a lintel, but a simple "jam" for the garage door.
> Looks to me like a door kit too low for the opening was installed
> under the arch of the opening.
>

The jam is typically under the steel angle iron that supports the brick
and or in this case the arched 2x12.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> > "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
> >
> > I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> > rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> ..
>v
>> Any ideas?
> >
> > To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that)
> > up on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch
> > board, or level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions.
> > Then I'd scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing
> > curve. This could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a
> > board that is as long as the distance from the bottom of the curved
> > board to the maximum height of the curve and a pencil could be
> > substituted. In either case make sure the scriber is plumb as you move
> > across the length of the board. Any roughness in the scribed line can be
> > smoothed out during and after cutting the board... a slight undercut
> > would help with the fitting.
>
>> Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
>> narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from
>> cutting the curve. It would hold up better than wood.
>

> Great advice. Thanks.
> PVC is a fortune around here, I don't see the client going for it.

Yeah... PVC can be a bit pricy compared to "real" wood!

Any chance you can get your client to allow you (code for "they pay for") to
put an aluminum drip cap on it? As it now water is running down the face of
the brick, and probably through the brick, and landing on the wood. I'm
thinking a hem at the back (to keep water from migrating towards the house)
and a small lip over the outside would suffice. The curve is gentle enough
that you might not have to worry about relief cuts on the lip... use a
gutter downspout crimper to shrink the lip a bit if needed... (could
probably be improvised).

https://www.amazon.com/Malco-Professional-Gutter-Downspout-Crimper/dp/B01D8UDV40/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1508030152&sr=8-8&keywords=malco+gutter+tools

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>
>>>
>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>> to the surface.
>>
>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>
>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>
>
>1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>2. What I install won't be "naked."

Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
using PT doesn't help this problem at all.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:59:38 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
>I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
>What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>
>If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>"flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
>the new 2x12.
>
>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
>Any ideas?

Tape paper to the bricks and tranfer by rubbing powder line chalk? Get
the curve from the bricks.

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)

That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
prepainted.

Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:31:53 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/14/17 6:29 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:23:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/14/17 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>>>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>>>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>>>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>>>>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>>>>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>>>>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>>>>>> to the surface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>>>>>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>>>>> 2. What I install won't be "naked."
>>>>
>>>> Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
>>>> to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
>>>> using PT doesn't help this problem at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I covered that. Pun.
>>
>> Then there is no point in using PT, which was my point.
>>
>
>Sure there is.
>But you just argue in circles in here for your own enjoyment so you have
>fun.
Be a lot better to use red cedar

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> ..
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that)
>> up on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch
>> board, or level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions.
>> Then I'd scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing
>> curve. This could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a
>> board that is as long as the distance from the bottom of the curved board
>> to the maximum height of the curve and a pencil could be substituted. In
>> either case make sure the scriber is plumb as you move across the length
>> of the board. Any roughness in the scribed line can be smoothed out
>> during and after cutting the board... a slight undercut would help with
>> the fitting.
>>
>> Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
>> narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from
>> cutting the curve. It would hold up better than wood.
>

>Great advice. Thanks.
>PVC is a fortune around here, I don't see the client going for it.

I took a look at the photo again after I posted about the drip cap on the
curve... I think you also need some window/door cap flashing between the
curved board and the top board of the door frame.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax-Home-Products-1-1-4-in-x-10-ft-Window-Cap-5504900120/100035439

You could probably modify this stuff for the curve too if you don't have a
brake to bend up the flashing I suggested in my prior note. For example,
trim the top leg down to about 1/4" and put some relief cuts in it. Then
turn it into a hem with a hand seamer. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Pittsburgh-3-Hand-Seamer/dp/B006ZB9ZDG/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1508031565&sr=1-1&keywords=pittsburgh+hand+seamer

After you have the curve bent into it apply some silicone chalk at the
relief cuts.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:11:37 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 13-Oct-17 2:53 PM, Leon wrote:
>...
>
>> The jam is typically under the steel angle iron that supports the brick
>> and or in this case the arched 2x12.
>
>No wonder it rotted...all that sugar! (missing a 'b' here we are... :)
>) Of course, the portion in question is the head; the jambs are the two
>verticals. And, yes, slap me w/ the pedant noodle... :)
I guess the word I was looking for is "casing" or "Door-Frame"

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 08:59:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 10/13/2017 10:55 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:
>> On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the
>>> radius.
>>>
>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>>> to the new 2x12.
>>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>> Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple degrees
>> of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can be easily
>> planed off.
>>
>> Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.
>
>Exactly! At least several coats of sealer/paint on all sides before
>installing. The brick will always weep water onto the top of the arc.
Needs flashing

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>
> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
> the new 2x12.
>
> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
> Any ideas?

You're dealing with a kinda elliptical segmental arch.
http://www.sweethaven02.com/BldgConst/Bldg02/fig0748.jpg

Rather than trying to transfer the archline with large dividers, what
about cheap, narrow, double sided tape along the curved bottom face
of the soldiers?
https://www.harborfreight.com/8-1-2-half-ft-x-3-4-quarter-inch-double-sided-tape-45882.html

Since dimensions weren't given let's say the arch is 16' wide, and
the top of the soldiers are 20" at the peak (pinnacle?) of the arch.

From a 4X8 sheet of lauan (or cheap thin ply) rip 2 ea. 15" X 8' pieces.
Divide the task in half (left half & right half). Measure/mark the center of the keystone.

Right side - From that mark, lightly apply the double sided tape
directly to the brick all the way to the bottom of the arch.

Since you've got that piece of molding protruding outward, ruining
the length of the span under the arch, rest the factory edge of one
of the 15" X 8' pieces of ply on it and apply just enough pressure to
get the tape to stick to the smooth, CLEAN ply.
Carfully remove said ply ,aking sure the tape stays on and voila!

Using the other piece of ply, do the above for the left side as well.

* Hopefully the tape will not adhere to the dirty rough bricks as
strongly as it will to the CLEAN smooth ply but you'd prolly want to
test it first. If it does stick to brick too much, apply blue
painter's tape to the bricks 1st, then the double sided tape.

On 2017-10-12 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>
> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
> the new 2x12.
>
> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with the
demolition?

On 12-Oct-17 4:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...

> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to
> the new 2x12.
...

Roughly FN's idea but use more solid material for your pattern than
paper...anything will do from masonite to ply to even cardboard just
need something stiff-enough can fit and scribe from it reliably.

Start since you still have the lower edge intact by measuring the
vertical height every few inches so can fit a fair curve, then cut out
the pattern a little proud and fit in place. Once you've got the
pattern made, then you're good to go...

--

On 10/12/17 6:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
>> On 2017-10-12 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to
>>> the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or
>>> trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine
>>> the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines
>>> to find the radius.
>>>
>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>>> to the new 2x12.
>>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>> Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with
>> the demolition?
>>
>
> I would do that as first step but before cutting the wood, I'd transfer
> it to cardboard or hardboard to be sure of the fit.
>
> I'm impressed that the builder made the arch like that.  So many
> buildings are just plain boxes.
>

Yes and no.
Adding an arch, yes.
Adding a make-shift arch with not continuous, measurable curve, no.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> ..
>
> Any ideas?
>
> To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that)
> up on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch
> board, or level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions.
> Then I'd scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing
> curve. This could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a
> board that is as long as the distance from the bottom of the curved
> board to the maximum height of the curve and a pencil could be
> substituted. In either case make sure the scriber is plumb as you move
> across the length of the board. Any roughness in the scribed line can be
> smoothed out during and after cutting the board... a slight undercut
> would help with the fitting.
>
> Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up
> narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from
> cutting the curve. It would hold up better than wood.
>

Great advice. Thanks.
PVC is a fortune around here, I don't see the client going for it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
...

Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...

--

On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
> ...
>
> Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
> the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
>

There bricks and board are on the same plane.
What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks.
I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course
of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,
not behind the bricks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/13/17 8:14 AM, ScottWW wrote:
>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the
>> new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels.
>> If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by
>> bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the
>> radius.
>>
>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>> to the new 2x12.
>>
>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut
> explains the straight ends.  The tightest curvature at the apex is the
> result of the flexibility of the springy board and the amount of
> pressure applied from below.
>

That was my thought as well for the same reasons you described.


> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with
> a large compass as suggested by other contributors.
> Scott in Dunedin

That's leading the field in my head right now.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/13/17 12:02 AM, Sonny wrote:
> I think the rotted board is not supporting the bricks, if those
> bricks are full size bricks. There's probably some metal support
> (I-beam?) behind the rotted board, supporting the brick wall (and
> maybe partially the arch).
>

There's no way that board is supporting anything except the coat of
paint lying on it.
And I have have that the wrong way around. :-)


> To me, the (upright) brick arch is simply decoration, probably not
> full bricks. Its arc is not supporting the brick wall and that
> should be obvious by the fact that the bricks adjacent to the
> keystone have been cut, inappropriately, defeating the purpose of a
> true keystone function. If the rotted board was for support, then
> likely the bricks and mortar, above, would have cracks, somewhere.
> The rotted board, I suspect, is simply a space filler.
>
> Large/long pieces of cardboard would be my choice for pattern
> making. Might only need to scribe half the span, i.e., mirror image
> halves. If it's discovered that the board isn't for support, then
> you wouldn't need to cut a full length board for replacement. Two
> boards connected by a lap joint would be easier to 1) dry fit and 2)
> for final installment for a good tight fit at the pointy ends.
> Caulk first, before permanently jamming the boards/"pointies" in.
>
> Sonny
>

I can't mirror it because the two sides don't match. (You can see it
better with the naked eye on site.)
I'd prefer not to use two sections. Even if I glue and sand, I'm sure
that joint would open up some time next summer.

If I'm lucky, maybe the inside, behind this, is open and I can get up in
there and trace the opening from the back. Doubt it, but who knows. I
just hope there's sufficient nailing surface behind it.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/12/17 10:23 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:27:35 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
>>> the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
>>>
>>
>> There bricks and board are on the same plane.
>> What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks.
>> I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course
>> of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,
>> not behind the bricks.
> Sure doesn't look like an original setup. Someones been fiddling
> before. Origionally the door fit BEHIND the brick and was a higher
> door.(possibly 5 panel, or larger panels) He or someone before him
> "cheaped out" once before and now it's coming back to bite him.
>

The guy definitely "cheaped out" from the testimony of all the home
owners around here, but it is indeed original.
A lot of these houses have these arched facades over straight openings,
just to create the illusion.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/12/17 10:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 9:27:39 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/12/17 8:18 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 12-Oct-17 8:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/17 6:51 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>>>> "-MIKE-"  wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>> 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of
>>> the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...
>>>
>>
>> There bricks and board are on the same plane.
>> What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks.
>> I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course
>> of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve,
>> not behind the bricks.
>>
>>
> That concerns me a bit. It sounds like the lintel is acting as a header
> and the curved board is (was) acting as the lintel for the bricks. Granted,
> the arch of the brick itself, although it's not much, probably helps support
> the brick *somewhat* but not that much.
>
> Is there a gap between the rotted wood and the brick or is the brick resting
> on the wood? If the wood is supposed to be supporting the brick above, you
> better get it right and get it right fast.
>

I'm about 99% sure the board is not supporting the bricks.
The board is so rotted I can pull chunks out with my bare hand.
And Sonny pointed out, there isn't a single crack in the bricks/mortar
above it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>
>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>> below.
>>
>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>> Scott in Dunedin
>
>
> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>
> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>

The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
white board.
If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/13/17 1:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:05:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>
>>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>>>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>>>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>>>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>>>> below.
>>>>
>>>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>>>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>>>> Scott in Dunedin
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
>>> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
>>> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
>>> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
>>> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
>>> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
>>> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>>>
>>> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
>>> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
>>> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
>>> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>>>
>>
>> The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
>> white board.
>> If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?
> I'd say it's not a lintel, but a simple "jam" for the garage door.
> Looks to me like a door kit too low for the opening was installed
> under the arch of the opening.
>

There is definitely a steel plate between the rotted wood piece and the
wood header.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 13-Oct-17 2:53 PM, Leon wrote:
...

> The jam is typically under the steel angle iron that supports the brick
> and or in this case the arched 2x12.

No wonder it rotted...all that sugar! (missing a 'b' here we are... :)
) Of course, the portion in question is the head; the jambs are the two
verticals. And, yes, slap me w/ the pedant noodle... :)

--

On 10/13/17 5:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:19:34 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/17 1:33 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:05:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>>>>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>>>>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>>>>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>>>>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>>>>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>>>>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>>>>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>>>>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>>>>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>>>>>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>>>>>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>>>>>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>>>>>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>>>>>> Scott in Dunedin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
>>>>> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
>>>>> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
>>>>> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
>>>>> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
>>>>> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
>>>>> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
>>>>> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
>>>>> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
>>>>> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
>>>> white board.
>>>> If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?
>>> I'd say it's not a lintel, but a simple "jam" for the garage door.
>>> Looks to me like a door kit too low for the opening was installed
>>> under the arch of the opening.
>>>
>>
>> There is definitely a steel plate between the rotted wood piece and the
>> wood header.
> Then someone was an idiot when they "designed" it.
>

You won't find an argument from this guy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
>>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>
>>Any ideas?
>
> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.

Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.

On 10/14/17 5:02 AM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>
>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>
> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
> doesn't take paint well.

None of that is true, except the dry part. All you have to do is wait
for it to dry out a bit and it takes paint fine.


> Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
> prepainted.
>

Like I said, the cheapest option is to replace it with what's there.
I'm not going to charge the client to reinvent the wheel. Even if it's
a lousy wheel. :-)


> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>

I hope you're kidding.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 8:57 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/13/2017 5:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>>> There is definitely a steel plate between the rotted wood piece and the
>>>> wood header.
>>>    Then someone was an idiot when they "designed" it.
>>>
>>
>> You won't find an argument from this guy.
>>
>>
>
> It is hard to do but sometimes it is best to just walk away from these
> type jobs.

Yeah, I know. But if I don't help her, who will?
I have a mason friend going over tomorrow to see if he can tell if that
thing is holding up the bricks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 8:59 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/13/2017 10:55 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:
>> On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to
>>> the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or
>>> trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine
>>> the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines
>>> to find the radius.
>>>
>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks
>>> to the new 2x12.
>>>
>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>> Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple
>> degrees of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can
>> be easily planed off.
>>
>> Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.
>
> Exactly!  At least several coats of sealer/paint on all sides before
> installing.  The brick will always weep water onto the top of the arc.

I'm hoping to find a "drier" 2x12 so I can prime, but in any case, I may
put some flashing tape along the top edge.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>
>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>> prepainted.
>>
>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>
> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>

1. I have liquid wood preservative.
2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
to the surface.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>
>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>> prepainted.
>>>>
>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>
>>
>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>> to the surface.
>
> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>
> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>

1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
2. What I install won't be "naked."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>>> to the surface.
>>>
>>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>>
>>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>>
>>
>> 1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>> 2. What I install won't be "naked."
>
> Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
> to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
> using PT doesn't help this problem at all.
>

I covered that. Pun.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 10/14/17 6:29 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:23:14 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/14/17 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:19:05 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/14/17 5:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>>>>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>>>>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>>>>>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>>>>>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>>>>>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>>>>>>> prepainted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>>>>>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>>>>>>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>>>>>>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>>>>>>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>>>>>> 2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>>>>>> fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>>>>>> don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>>>>>> to the surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>>>>> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. None of that is news to me nor contradicts anything I wrote.
>>>> 2. What I install won't be "naked."
>>>
>>> Unless the top is wrapped with flashing of some sort (with a drip edge
>>> to divert the water away), it will remain wet. The point is that
>>> using PT doesn't help this problem at all.
>>>
>>
>> I covered that. Pun.
>
> Then there is no point in using PT, which was my point.
>

Sure there is.
But you just argue in circles in here for your own enjoyment so you have
fun.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 10/14/2017 6:55 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>
>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.
>>
>> Man, that would be a BIG enlargement.
>>
>>
>
> Then you print it out on a dot matrix printer like a banner, same as in
> 1983. You still have that printer don't you?

As a matter of fact I do. A brand new, never used Okidata. A box of
tractor paper too.

On 10/17/17 6:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
>>>>> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
>>>>> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
>>>>> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
>>>>> put it off 'til spring.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
>>>>
>>>> None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.
>>>
>>> Or just maybe the local climate makes a difference in the longevity
>>> of pressure treated softwoods.
>>
>> The decks/walkways in question see an average of 35" of rain and 85" of snow
>> per year. Both areas get shoveled, so they are rarely snow covered for any
>> length of time. Neither area gets any sun to speak of.
>
> And around here, we're lucky to get 15" total moisture annually (99% from
> November through April). PT lasts a long time.
>

In these parts we get more rain in a year than most places get in a
single day. PT lumber typically dissolves from UV exposure.

-BR

>"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>
>I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>wants cheapest option.)
>
>What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>
>If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>
>Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>
>Any ideas?
>

It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
below.

I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
large compass as suggested by other contributors.
Scott in Dunedin

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>
>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>
>>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>>> prepainted.
>>>
>>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>>
>> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>>
>
>1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>to the surface.

Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
it sure doesn't last very long, naked.

https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:35:53 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 10/14/2017 10:46 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/14/17 8:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 10/13/2017 10:55 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2017 5:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12
>>>>> is rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a
>>>>> screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new,
>>>>> treated 2x12.  (Client wants cheapest option.)
>>>>>
>>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to
>>>>> the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or
>>>>> trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine
>>>>> the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines
>>>>> to find the radius.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch
>>>>> "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to
>>>>> transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of
>>>>> bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even
>>>>> several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch"
>>>>> onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Scribing a 2x12 to match is the easy part. Cut it with a couple
>>>> degrees of back bevel so it slides in easier, and any high spots can
>>>> be easily planed off.
>>>>
>>>> Sealing it so it does not rot again will be the real problem.
>>>
>>> Exactly!  At least several coats of sealer/paint on all sides before
>>> installing.  The brick will always weep water onto the top of the arc.
>>
>> I'm hoping to find a "drier" 2x12 so I can prime, but in any case, I may
>> put some flashing tape along the top edge.
>>
>>
>Maybe spray some of that rubberized sealant on before painting.
or vacuum bag it in linseed oil - - -

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:05:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 10/13/17 9:53 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:14:44 -0400, "ScottWW" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>>>>
>>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is
>>>> rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver
>>>> or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated 2x12. (Client
>>>> wants cheapest option.)
>>>>
>>>> What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new
>>>> 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this
>>>> was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting
>>>> the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.
>>>>
>>>> If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens
>>>> out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the
>>>> exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several
>>>> pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new
>>>> board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the
>>> field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains
>>> the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the
>>> flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from
>>> below.
>>>
>>> I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a
>>> large compass as suggested by other contributors.
>>> Scott in Dunedin
>>
>>
>> I'm still, drom looking at lots of houses in our area built with the
>> arch above the door, almost CERTAIN someone has modified the original
>> install, and the original door closed bshind the brick arch. The
>> "reveal" of the arch (where the board is now) showed the top of the
>> square topped door - while the brick arch hid the square corners of
>> the door. The iron lintel is above the arched bricks, which are a
>> combination of self supporting and brick-tied to the main structure.
>>
>> There are literally hundreds, and even thousands, of garage doors
>> built that way around here (Waterloo Region, Ontario) -could not be
>> done in the days of the one-piece overhead door, but very simple with
>> the segmented roll-up doors in common use today.
>>
>
>The only thing that makes me doubt your premise is the lintel below the
>white board.
>If it was put in after all that, then why a lintel?
I'd say it's not a lintel, but a simple "jam" for the garage door.
Looks to me like a door kit too low for the opening was installed
under the arch of the opening.

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:24:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 7:33:14 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:15:03 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:53:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 10/14/17 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 03:02:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:59:44 PM UTC-7, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/DqXrs5DI2roJTli22
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I need to replace the white board above this garage door.
>> >> >>>> ... I'm going to replace with a new, treated
>> >> >>>> 2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That's not a great plan; treated lumber (1) isn't straight, (2) isn't dry, (3)
>> >> >>> doesn't take paint well. Could you put a bit of housewrap (or
>> >> >>> even tarpaper) over it, as a kind of flashing, with a trim board overtop
>> >> >>> that, and paint the trim? Hardieboard isn't expensive, and might come
>> >> >>> prepainted.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Heck, even just cutting the treated board in the curve is going to be a tough job,
>> >> >>> 'cuz it'll be hard to see pencil marks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not to mention that treated lumber will still rot if it's allowed to
>> >> >> stay wet. It's bug resistant, not water resistant. He'd be cutting
>> >> >> into the important top edge, too. The, now exposed, interior of the
>> >> >> wood isn't as saturated as the surface.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >1. I have liquid wood preservative.
>> >> >2. It's all "bugs." Water doesn't rot wood. It's microscopic bugs and
>> >> >fungus that rot wood. You ever notice how fence posts or dock posts
>> >> >don't rot way underground or water. Not enough oxygen. They rot closer
>> >> >to the surface.
>> >>
>> >> Have you ever noticed pressure treated decking? It doesn't rot, but
>> >> it sure doesn't last very long, naked.
>> >>
>> >> https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/articles/wood-myths-facts-and-fictions-about-wood/
>> >
>> >What's your definition of "doesn't last" and "not very long"?
>>
>> The article says "9 years", which is about what I've found. I have to
>> replace mine (the house is ten years old) and I had to replace it on
>> my last house (at five years). I'm not sure if I'm going to add to
>> the deck, and cover it, or just replace the decking. I'll probably
>> put it off 'til spring.
>>
>> >I've got untreated PT decking that has lasted just fine for 25+ years.
>>
>> Without waterproofing, of some sort?
>
>None. Maybe PT wood was better back then.
PT wood has always varied in quality from pretty decent to total
crap. The older stuff had more potent chemicals

On 10/12/2017 7:40 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>>>>
>>> Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with
>>> the demolition?
>>>
>>
>> I would do that as first step but before cutting the wood, I'd
>> transfer it to cardboard or hardboard to be sure of the fit.
>>
>> I'm impressed that the builder made the arch like that.  So many
>> buildings are just plain boxes.
>>
>
> Yes and no.
> Adding an arch, yes.
> Adding a make-shift arch with not continuous, measurable curve, no.
>
>
It look close to just a curve near the top and straight line to the
ends. You can always cut it straight for the most part and use a
boatload of caulk. Just be sure to get paid before the customer get
within 20 feet of it.