George Max wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:25:42 -0500, Patriarch
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >news:Tkw%[email protected]:
> >
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
> >>> http://www.nycbed.com
> >>
> >> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
> >>
> >> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
> >> cost..
> >>
> >
> >Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
> >
> >Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
> >commercially, I figure I've saved money.
> >
> >Patriarch
Be fair, it doesn't really matter. Knowing you built something from
scratch, knowing its an original "Who-ever-you-are" work makes it
almost priceless and worth it!
So what if you lose a bit money on it, the enjoyment (and frustration)
put into any project makes it a one off.
Long live the woodworker!
Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> Look, I LOVE making my own furniture, but anybody who says they can do
> it for a fraction of the cost must be sneaking into the local lumberyard
> after hours.
That depends on what "it" is. If "it" is particle board knock down
furniture from that giant blue abomination, then yes, they can do it
cheaper with an army of under-fed asian people.
On the other hand, "it" could be so much more. About six months ago, a
friend of mine came in to work ohhing and ahhing over this dresser he
bought. He went into a furniture store and bought it from a catalog.
He knew I was a woodworker so he came to me to talk about it. I
suggested that when it gets delivered, he should take some pictures (of
the jointery and back of course) and bring them in. The end result was
that it was, in deed, a very nice dresser. They're simply not mass
produced to that standard anymore: dovetails that fit, the back looked
like 3/8" or 1/2" ply that was rabbeted into the back. It was a
perfect fit. The price: $3800 for 1 dresser, not a complete bedroom
set.
I'm fairly confident that with similar wood, the tools I have now, and
even my amature finishing techniques, I could make something comperable
and come in at maybe a quarter of that price.
brian
Patriarch wrote:
> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>
>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>> cost..
>>
>
> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>
> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>
> Patriarch
Look, I LOVE making my own furniture, but anybody who says they can do
it for a fraction of the cost must be sneaking into the local lumberyard
after hours.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:15:03 -0500, "Charlie M. 1958"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Patriarch wrote:
>> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>>
>>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>>> cost..
>>>
>>
>> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>>
>> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
>> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>>
>> Patriarch
>
>Look, I LOVE making my own furniture, but anybody who says they can do
>it for a fraction of the cost must be sneaking into the local lumberyard
>after hours.
Well, you don't really have to sneak. I've got a lot of free lumber
by asking homeowners if I can have the old stuff I've replaced at
their request when working at jobsites. It's usually pine, but you
can still build things with it. Turning blanks are always free for
the asking, in my experience, and hardwood can be bought in bulk from
a sawmill if you're willing to work with domestic species (birch and
maple cost less than knotty pine in my area) and let it air-dry in the
backyard.
But that's not the real issue- I think you really can do it for a
fraction of the cost, even buying lumber from the lumberyard. A lot
of guys toss up the "If you pay yourself minimum wage" argument, but I
don't buy that. You don't "pay yourself minimum wage" to work on your
own house- you earn equity and enjoyment. Same with the furniture.
If you can build a desk for $200 in materials that will last the rest
of your life, you have to count the equity of knowing that you won't
have to buy another one of those ever again- and your time was free,
because it was for yourself and you enjoyed it. So maybe you could
have bought a $200 desk at the furniture store, but for that price,
you're not comparing apples to apples. You get a $200 desk made out
of particle board and plastic veneer that will fall apart if you move
it after the initial assembly. Go that route, and you'll be buying
plenty of them over time. Or you have to rank it against the one made
of (for example) solid quartersawn oak at the furniture store- if you
can even find one. At a conservative guess, I'd imagine one of those
goes for at least $1600.
All I can think is that most of you folks' time is somehow worth much
more than mine is. I couldn't work enough overtime in five years at
my current pay scale to furnish my entire house with someone else's
handmade furniture- but I could do it all in a year, without OT, with
the tools that are already bought and paid for in the basement. If it
weren't for them, all my furniture would be particle board, and most
of it wouldn't be able to do even the modest job assigned it.
It's a bargin from my viewpoint.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:22:34 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
>Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 3:52am (EDT-1) [email protected] (Prometheus)
>doth sayeth
><snip> But that's not the real issue- I think you really can do it for a
>fraction of the cost, even buying lumber from the lumberyard. <snip>
>
> You said it a lot better than I could.
>
> I never could understand someone figuring in the cost of their
>labor in making something for themselves. Woodworking must be the only
>hobby where people do that.
Nope- I've seen the same thing going on in metalworking forums, too.
But the funniest pay-yourself scheme I ever heard was from a carpenter
I worked with a while back. Here was his plan-
He was going to build his own house. Good idea so far. He had
already bought the land and owned a home. Still no problem. But
here's where it became rediculous- he didn't like working in the
cold, so he planned to sell his house and move into an apartment, take
a six month leave-of-absence during the peak of the construction
season, and pay himself $25 an hour with a loan from the bank.
Somehow, this brilliant plan was going to make him a lot of money in
his mind- after all, he'd be earning $25 an hour! (He was making $14
an hour at the time, and that's what he'd be going back to later)
If that isn't a recipe for bankruptcy, I don't know what is. Anyone
with a bit of sense would just have built the thing after work and on
the weekends- like everyone else I've ever known who built their own
home.
Don't know how it worked out for him, because after I heard that
jewel, I stopped talking to him immediately. Couldn't say if complete
insanity is contageous or not, but I didn't want to risk it.
Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 5:09am (EDT-1) [email protected] (Prometheus)
doth sayeth:
<snip> But the funniest pay-yourself scheme I ever heard was from a
carpenter I worked with a while back. <snip>
I've got to admit, my jaw started dropping while I read that.
Amazing.
JOAT
If it can't kill you, it ain't a sport.
[email protected] (J T) wrote in news:8433-4541FF02-416@storefull-
3333.bay.webtv.net:
> Fri, Oct 27, 2006, 5:09am (EDT-1) [email protected] (Prometheus)
> doth sayeth:
> <snip> But the funniest pay-yourself scheme I ever heard was from a
> carpenter I worked with a while back. <snip>
>
> I've got to admit, my jaw started dropping while I read that.
> Amazing.
>
>
>
> JOAT
> If it can't kill you, it ain't a sport.
>
>
Maybe it's just the Silicon Valley here, but he's no the only one like that
around.
Some of them are called 'politicians'.
Patriarch
Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 3:52am (EDT-1) [email protected] (Prometheus)
doth sayeth
<snip> But that's not the real issue- I think you really can do it for a
fraction of the cost, even buying lumber from the lumberyard. <snip>
You said it a lot better than I could.
I never could understand someone figuring in the cost of their
labor in making something for themselves. Woodworking must be the only
hobby where people do that.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
On 25 Oct 2006 00:13:24 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Be fair, it doesn't really matter. Knowing you built something from
>scratch, knowing its an original "Who-ever-you-are" work makes it
>almost priceless and worth it!
>
>So what if you lose a bit money on it, the enjoyment (and frustration)
>put into any project makes it a one off.
>
>Long live the woodworker!
You're right.
The alternatives to a woodworking hobby would also cost money and some
might hurt your relationship.
Woodworking results in lots of personal benefits that one can't put a
price on, plus the results are almost always useful and beautiful.
Turning is one avenue that results in awesomely good looking results.
Can't put a price tag on the sense of accomplishment.
But I speak as a hobbyist, not a pro. It's different when WW puts
food on the table and clothes on your back. Same sense of
accomplishment but more urgency.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:25:42 -0500, Patriarch
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>
>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>
>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>> cost..
>>
>
>Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>
>Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
>commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>
>Patriarch
I just completed an ellipse jig that cost me ~$20 to make. A
commercial one of similar size is around $160. I came out ahead on
that.
If you look at www.furnituremaker.com, you'll see that Mr. Peart is
charging a lot for his work. I'm sure I could copy one of them for a
sum significantly less. It might take me a lot longer to make one
than he does, but still...
Wed, Oct 25, 2006, 12:37am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Tim) doth sayeth:
That's nothing compared to the chairs! (first ones, rather harder than I
expected)
No problem. Next time just make a bench for each side. Anyone
bitches just tell 'em it's all replica medieval.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> Patriarch wrote:
>> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>>
>>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>>> cost..
>>
>> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>>
>> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
>> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>>
>> Patriarch
>
> Look, I LOVE making my own furniture, but anybody who says they can do
> it for a fraction of the cost must be sneaking into the local lumberyard
> after hours.
Agree with that, where I live (Europe) we can get good quality
furniture made in Eastern Europe for less than the material cost at the
lumberyard (even pine).
George Max wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:40:47 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> In the UK wood is wasted,travelling around the area I live in will
>> get me an abundance of wood.
>> It might be old wardrobes,demolished houses with wood beams to be
>> had. But at the end of the day it can be recycled to make furniture.
>
> I love that recycled wood. It's way better to do that than send it to
> some landfill or a chipper.
>
> I've recycled a couple of waterbeds. Some of the moldings in my house
> are made of the rails from them. Some still await use. None go to
> waste. Even the corner posts I couldn't use for a project are serving
> time keeping stuff off the floor in the garage.
Yep, the wardrobes I'm on about are the very old type most of them where
made of mahogany,walnut and are still usable wide 7'x2'5" pieces.
However even the melamine wardrobes of today is still usable wood.
Take the 15 glass panelled doors for instance,the sides are made 1 5/16 x
4" of redwood and can still be salvaged for projects.
Sheesh! me pay for wood ya must be joking. lol
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
[email protected] wrote:
> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
> http://www.nycbed.com
Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the cost..
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:Tkw%[email protected]:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>> http://www.nycbed.com
>
> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>
> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
> cost..
>
Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
commercially, I figure I've saved money.
Patriarch
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:46:20 GMT, George Max
<[email protected]> wrote:
>But I speak as a hobbyist, not a pro. It's different when WW puts
>food on the table and clothes on your back. Same sense of
>accomplishment but more urgency.
Sometimes... If you work for yourself. But when it was paying my
morgage, I had to do a lot of work I was not happy with, because
someone else was calling the shots. Along with the urgency, it robbed
a lot of the sense of accomplishment to know that I had to use
inferior materials or weak joinery to keep my job.
Thu, Oct 26, 2006, 3:58am (EDT-1) [email protected] (Prometheus)
doth sayeth:
<snip> I had to do a lot of work I was not happy with, because someone
else was calling the shots. <snip>
Oh yeah. My last military commander wanted me to design a
desk/work station for processing. No prob, how does he want it? Oh,
just do it your way. No prob. Came up with a design that would be
perfect. He didn't like it. OK, how does he want it? Oh, just do it
your way.
Went thru that crap 7 (seven) times until he finally approved the
design. Apparently he had a plan in his mind from the very begininning,
yet expected me to read his mind. Spent plenty of hours one it, and
ended up with a little fancier finish then the original desk, with all
its original deficiencies, and no gain in efficiency. work space, or
anything else. Extremely frustrating. Pretty much SOP with him.
JOAT
It's not hard, if you get your mind right.
- Granny Weatherwax
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:40:47 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>In the UK wood is wasted,travelling around the area I live in will get me
>an abundance of wood.
>It might be old wardrobes,demolished houses with wood beams to be had.
>But at the end of the day it can be recycled to make furniture.
I love that recycled wood. It's way better to do that than send it to
some landfill or a chipper.
I've recycled a couple of waterbeds. Some of the moldings in my house
are made of the rails from them. Some still await use. None go to
waste. Even the corner posts I couldn't use for a project are serving
time keeping stuff off the floor in the garage.
Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> Patriarch wrote:
>> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>>
>>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>>> cost..
>>>
>>
>> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>>
>> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
>> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>>
>> Patriarch
>
> Look, I LOVE making my own furniture, but anybody who says they can do
> it for a fraction of the cost must be sneaking into the local
> lumberyard after hours.
In the UK wood is wasted,travelling around the area I live in will get me
an abundance of wood.
It might be old wardrobes,demolished houses with wood beams to be had.
But at the end of the day it can be recycled to make furniture.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
Tim wrote:
> "Patriarch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>>
>>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>>
>>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>>> cost..
>>>
>>
>> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>>
>> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
>> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>>
> Depends on how you account for labor. I just make an oak dining room
> table using wood I bought for about $50 and $10 worth of supplies. I
> expect it would retail for about $1,000. Now, if you figure in the
> 100 hours of labor I put into it...
Since its your own table? then the time spent on it is irrelevant.
So how long was wifey giving you earache to get it finished? :-)
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
"Patriarch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "The3rd Earl Of Derby" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:Tkw%[email protected]:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Modern Furniture 20-60% off
>>> http://www.nycbed.com
>>
>> Duh! in case you havn't realised this is rec.woodworking.
>>
>> What this means people make their own furniture at a fraction of the
>> cost..
>>
>
> Well, fractions DO go over 1, don't they? ;-)
>
> Any time I can finish a project for twice what I can buy it for
> commercially, I figure I've saved money.
>
Depends on how you account for labor. I just make an oak dining room table
using wood I bought for about $50 and $10 worth of supplies. I expect it
would retail for about $1,000. Now, if you figure in the 100 hours of labor
I put into it...