hand plane technique

Mike in Mystic wrote:

> more good suggestions. I'll have to try just taking it easy and see how
> it
> goes. I guess I should try some poplar or other hardwood to maybe get a
> little easier result while I'm practicing, as well.

Try walnut. I'm trying some *soft* maple after cutting my teeth on, and
getting pretty confident with walnut. Maple is proving to be bitchy. My
board looks like crap. I'd imagine hard maple would just exacerbate all
the problems I've been having, so the wood could definitely be your
trouble. Especially if you have any board edges in a flamey area, which
are proving effing near impossible to do anything with.

Poplar is too easy for good practice. You can get away with sloppy
technique (like stripping off a perfectly formed 1/32" thick shaving with
every pass) that just ain't gonna work on a real hardwood.

Save the maple for another day, my friend.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>, Mike in
Mystic <[email protected]> wrote:

> So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
> to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not a
> good first choice to practice hand planing with?

As a guess, possible problems...

1) blade isn't as sharp as it needs to be;

2) plane set to take too thick a shaving

3) chip breaker too far back from end of the blade

I've found that when I really have to reef on a plane it's one of the
above.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article <[email protected]>, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:

> You just can't use a rectilinear frame to support a big
> sideways load like planing

Funny, my rectilinear bench (4x4 legs, 2x8 stretchers top and bottom,
solid core doo with maple T&G flooring laminated on top) supports any
sideways load I plane at it.

Sharp blade, properly adjusted. Works a treat.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

Oops. Forgot the link...

<http://www.balderstone.ca/workbench/>

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article <101120032023464209%[email protected]>, Dave
Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote:

> solid core doo

Um... That's solid core *DOOR*. I may not be an expert WW'er, but...

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article <[email protected]>, Mike in
Mystic <[email protected]> wrote:

> Good suggestions, and probably a little of all of them are playing a role
> here. I did make sure to set the chip breaker only about 1/16" from the
> blade edge. Is this not a good placement? I'll have to double-check that
> it is fully seated along its width.

That should be right. You merntioned chatter as a problem, so I
wondered about that particular issue.

> I found that most of the "checking" ocurred about 12-18" from the end of the
> board, so maybe the chip-breaker is getting clogged?

Another thought, if the problem is near the end of the board... Are you
moving your qhole body as you plane, or extending your arms?

If the latter, perhaps you're lifting the front of the plane slightly
at the end of your stroke, without realizing it.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

Yes, I do, and yes it would, but the lead found a home in the bottom of my
gun safe.

As for the bench, after reflecting on it, I would probably try pads cut from
an auto tire. That grips concrete pretty well :-)

I suppose bolting is the best bet, but I just could not bring myself to
drill holes in the floor of my brand new gar>>shop. Particularly since the
ideal shop layout puts the bench right in the center of the room IMHO, or
anywhere not adjacent to a wall.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop


"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Should you cast bullets for reloading, the lead would be a perfect
> weight for the bench.
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:13:04 GMT, "Pounds on Wood"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >A couple of thoughts Mike,
> >
> >Do all four legs rest evenly on the floor? Even though they are touching
> >the floor does not mean they are evenly distributing the weight. That
> >might let the bench skip a bit under a side load.
> >
> >Second, I think I remember seeing early pics of your bench and it had
heavy
> >crossmembers spanning the legs. Load those suckers up with ballast. For
me
> >that is usually chocked full of scraps of hardwood and exotics that I
don't
> >want, or can't bear to throw away. You could use some bags of sand or
> >redi-mix.
> >
> >My bench must move occasionally to get projects in or out, so I would not
> >bolt it down or to a wall. Might work for you though. I'd like to
suggest
> >something high friction between the legs and the floor, but don't know
just
> >what that would be at the moment.
>

Mike:

Try glueing some 60 or 80 grit sandpaper under the
legs. Theory is that overcoming friction has to
happen before things can get moving.

charlie b

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:27:42 -0800, "JackD" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> How much diagonalisation is there ?
>
>Are you just making up words here?

Yes. There obviously is an appropriate word, but I'm too knackered to
think what it is.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote:
>
>Beech is even soft compared to maple. The issue with beech is that it
>seems to resist splitting so well ... [snip]

Man, that's the truth! Ever split it by hand for firewood? Talk about _work_!

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

Should you cast bullets for reloading, the lead would be a perfect
weight for the bench.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:13:04 GMT, "Pounds on Wood"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>A couple of thoughts Mike,
>
>Do all four legs rest evenly on the floor? Even though they are touching
>the floor does not mean they are evenly distributing the weight. That
>might let the bench skip a bit under a side load.
>
>Second, I think I remember seeing early pics of your bench and it had heavy
>crossmembers spanning the legs. Load those suckers up with ballast. For me
>that is usually chocked full of scraps of hardwood and exotics that I don't
>want, or can't bear to throw away. You could use some bags of sand or
>redi-mix.
>
>My bench must move occasionally to get projects in or out, so I would not
>bolt it down or to a wall. Might work for you though. I'd like to suggest
>something high friction between the legs and the floor, but don't know just
>what that would be at the moment.

"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
> bench from Sam Allen's workbench book.

Mike,
If your 200+ lb bench is moving around on you, then I can think of two
potential problems off the top of my head. The feet of your bench
aren't making real good contact with the floor, or perhaps the bench
isn't balanced well.

What kind of floor is your bench sitting on? If it's a very smooth
concrete garage floor, then the feet are likely to slip around. Been
there done that. An easy solution is to glue some thin neoprene to
the bottoms of the feet. I actually used neoprene-impregnated cork.
Worked great. An even more definitive and still not irreversible
solution is to drill a couple holes in the floor, bolt/screw some
angle iron to the legs and then drop carriage bolts through the
brackets into the holes in the floor. There's no need to bolt the
bench to the floor, as there's not a lot of chance you'll be applying
much upward force to the bench (and even if you did, at 200lbs, it'd
be tough to lift).

Later, if you need to move the bench, simply lift out the carriage
bolts and go.

If you're on a wooden floor, just glue some 36 grit sand paper to the
bottoms of your bench's feet. It won't go anywhere after that.

As for balance, how wide apart are the legs (of the bench, not you)?
If you're planing way out on the corner of your bench (like where that
face vise is mounted), then you could have a problem with bench
wanter to teeter. And if it's teetering, it's gonna want to scoot
around on you.

You mentioned you were applying a lot of lateral force while planing
the edge of a board? Why? You can angle the plane as you move along
the edge, but this is generally to shorten the effective lenght of the
board (and to skew the iron, lowering it's effective cutting angle).
One of Ian Kirby's tricks to eschew a face vise alltogether when
edge-jointing (not always practical, when jointing a wide board). He
just plops the board against a stop. Then if his plane is tilted, or
if he's applying any unneeded lateral force, the board will flop over.
Talk about an effective feedback system.

As for BAD's problem with his flimsy vise - expensive is once, cheap
is forever. Use a board jack to support the end of the board. Better
yet, buy any book you can by Frank Klausz, Tage Frid and/or Ian Kirby.

O'Deen

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:52:25 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's, held
>together with truss rods

How much diagonalisation is there ?

My bench is a failure. 2" oak top on a 4"x4" larch frame with 8" deep
stretchers and the damn thing racks back and forth like a laundry
airer. You just can't use a rectilinear frame to support a big
sideways load like planing.

We're both going to have to stick something diagonal up the back.
--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

Mike (et. al.),

I've planed cherry, red oak, birch, hard maple, and pine. I'd
definitely say that maple is a lot more difficult to plane than the
other woods. I found that I was sticking the plane alot (it would get
about half way in the stroke and stop). But after some practice I
found that either I really muscled through the stroke in which case it
worked fine, or I took the stroke a lot faster than with other woods
and slightly less pressure and that worked fine too. The shavings
didn't come out as full (width wise), so it (my knight smoother) was
probably acting more like a scraper, and I ended up making two passes
per one pass on other wood (mind you a single pass usually does it for
me, so what's two passes anyway), but the end result was the same --
smooth as glass :)

Good luck,
Mike

PS. I have lots of scrap maple sitting in a box waiting to be glued
up for my workbench (vises still in their boxes as well). I'm
jealous, wish mine were done. I'm just clamping a 1/2" thick piece of
oak across my miter bench (mdf torsion box on sawhorses) and planing
into it for now.


"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mike in Mystic wrote:

[snip]

> > > So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> > > eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
> something
> > > to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
> not
> > > a good first choice to practice hand planing with?
> >
> > I haven't ever tried to plane it, so I can't answer that. If you're
> moving
> > your entire bench, chances are you're doing it wrong though. I've
> > definitely moved my ~250 pound bench around while planing, but I'm finding
> > that it's much less likely to happen now that I have a feel for what I'm
> > doing, and have really got my planes tuned up. (Tuning should't be much
> of
> > an issue for you with those spendy critters though.)

[snip]

ah, were you thinking of 2 pieces of sandpaper, glued back-to-back?

Bolting to the floor, with brackets would involve removing 2 or 4 bolts
on the arguably rare occasion to move the bench. From his posts so far,
it seems as a stable bench is his desire, which would necessitate
bolting it down. Hell, I can put a half ton of stuff in my truck, but
it'll still motorvate down the freeway! :)

dave

Pounds on Wood wrote:

>
> My bench must move occasionally to get projects in or out, so I would not
> bolt it down or to a wall. Might work for you though. I'd like to suggest
> something high friction between the legs and the floor, but don't know just
> what that would be at the moment.
>
> --
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
>
>
> "Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
>>bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
>>wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
>>economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a top
>>skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's, held
>>together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very
>
> heavy.
>
>>I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise
>
> and
>
>>a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
>>vise, actually).
>>
>>Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
>>compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole thing
>>out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I came
>
> up
>
>>with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
>>weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
>>
>>My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
>>problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
>
> vise
>
>>faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x 8"
>
> x
>
>>60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs and
>
> a
>
>>hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front edge
>
> of
>
>>the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut and
>>started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need to
>>practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I
>
> would
>
>>be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and
>
> the
>
>>whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can
>
> get
>
>>a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
>>planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor
>
> was
>
>>not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
>>better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve
>
> Knight
>
>>smoother and had similar things happen.
>>
>>So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
>>eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
>>to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not
>
> a
>
>>good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>>
>>I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure beats
>>the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
>
> hate
>
>>finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to upgrade
>
> it
>
>>right off the bat.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>--
>>
>>There are no stupid questions.
>>There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

more good suggestions. I'll have to try just taking it easy and see how it
goes. I guess I should try some poplar or other hardwood to maybe get a
little easier result while I'm practicing, as well.

Mike

"Conan The Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike in Idaho wrote:
>
> > I've planed cherry, red oak, birch, hard maple, and pine. I'd
> > definitely say that maple is a lot more difficult to plane than the
> > other woods. I found that I was sticking the plane alot (it would get
> > about half way in the stroke and stop). But after some practice I
> > found that either I really muscled through the stroke in which case it
> > worked fine, or I took the stroke a lot faster than with other woods
> > and slightly less pressure and that worked fine too.
>
> Assuming everything is set up and functioning properly, one more
> thing he might want to consider is taking a hunk of paraffin (the type
> you get in the grocery store for canning works fine; Gulfwax is the
> stuff we get here) and making a few "scribbles" on the sole of the
> plane. But be careful; the first time you take a pass, hold on tight or
> you might watch the plane go flying across your workshop. :-}
>
> Also, on the idea of pressure: For problematic woods, I usually
> find that I have better results when I apply *less*, rather than more
> downwards pressure. And especially if you're trying to take a fairly
> substantial shaving, you'll end up sticking more if you are powering the
> plane downward. If you've ever used a scrub plane, this becomes
> apparent. The motion for scrubbing is a short almost "scooping" motion;
> if you keep too much downward pressure, the plane just tends to bog down.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
>

after your post today, (and Mike's) I tried two simple methods and they
work fine. I used a roller stand and then I tried just clamping a piece
of wood to the top of the bench so it protrudes out far enough for the
work piece to rest on it. Then I pushed down on the more gently clamped
workplace; problem solved! The only vises I'd ever used before were
metal vises for auto work and everything was always clamped tiiiiight!

The solution is always easy when you know the answer!

dave

Juergen Hannappel wrote:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Hi Mike,
>>
>>I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with
>>1/4 masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
>>vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
>>maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
>>closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
>>opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
>>it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?
>
>
> That's push on the unclamped end, i guess. The solution to this
> problem is having that end of the board supported by either a "bench
> slave" or a peg protruding from a hole in the benches leg. Clamping so
> hard that a long board can't be moved is not a good idea since the
> lever arm provided by the length of the board give so much force that
> you would seriously dent the board at the vise.
>

Good suggestions, and probably a little of all of them are playing a role
here. I did make sure to set the chip breaker only about 1/16" from the
blade edge. Is this not a good placement? I'll have to double-check that
it is fully seated along its width.

I found that most of the "checking" ocurred about 12-18" from the end of the
board, so maybe the chip-breaker is getting clogged? Should I open the
mouth up to allow clearance for these shavings? Man, I realize I have
almost no instinct for this stuff hehe. Glad I'm still young enough that
maybe in 10 years I'll be halfway decent so I can convince my son I know one
or two things about woodworking haha.

Mike


--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Dave Balderstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:101120031511037253%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mike in
> Mystic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> > eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
something
> > to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
not a
> > good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>
> As a guess, possible problems...
>
> 1) blade isn't as sharp as it needs to be;
>
> 2) plane set to take too thick a shaving
>
> 3) chip breaker too far back from end of the blade
>
> I've found that when I really have to reef on a plane it's one of the
> above.
>
> djb
>
> --
> There are no socks in my email address.
>
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

My bench is attached to the wall, so it's not "movable". I can (and
did) stand on it (I'm 216#), or jump up and down on it with nary a
noticeable deflection or groan (from the bench, that is!).

Yes, you can easily fill in the holes in the floor with that quick
setting cement you buy in a small box (no need to cart home a 60# bag of
cement). Anchoring it to the floor should rid it of the heebie jeebies.

Maybe I should drive up 50 miles to Woodcraft today and look at the
Record vise. I can always return the POS I bought yesterday and chalk
up the time wasted on it to "learning"! At least I passed up the Buck
Brothers low angle block plane. I took a look at it while getting the
clips at Southern Lumber yesterday. I couldn't even release the movable
mouth. I took the knurled knob off completely and tried to rotate the
adjuster. It was jammed, so I gave up and made a mental note that cheap
is usually crappy. Like the stupid vise I thought I could get away
with. sigh.

thanks for the info on the Record.

Could you tell how long the handle is? I hope it's longer than the one
I'm thinking of returning. I looked in the Woodcraft catalog. they
don't mention handle length. thanks, Mike

dave

Mike in Mystic wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> I have the Record 52 1/2 quick-release front vise. It has a 9" jaw width
> and 13" maximum opening. It's pretty solid and works great thus far. The
> quick-release feature is a great thing. I got mine on a close-out at
> woodcraft for $85. I don't think you can get them there anymore, but they
> probably sell some "economy" version. Lee Valley still sells the real
> thing, but they're $139. If I were you, I'd go for the 53, which has 10.5"
> wide jaws and a 15" opening for $149.
>
> So, how did you get your bench to be solid as a rock? Is it a free-standing
> bench or a wall-mounted one? Your idea about bolting it to the floor is an
> idea, but my shop is in the garage and I'm not sure how long we're going to
> stay in this house, so putting holes in the garage floor might be a bad
> idea, although I'm sure I could fill them in easily enough if need be. I
> might just put a bunch of bags of sand or something on the shelf to weigh it
> down.
>
> Mike
>
> --
>
> There are no stupid questions.
> There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
>
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Hi Mike,
>>
>>I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with 1/4
>> masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
>>vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
>>maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
>>closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
>>opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
>>it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?
>>
>>How about putting a couple of sturdy angle iron brackets on the legs and
>>drill holes in the floor for anchoring the bench?
>>
>>dave
>>
>>Mike in Mystic wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
>>>bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
>>>wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
>>>economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a
>
> top
>
>>>skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's,
>
> held
>
>>>together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very
>
> heavy.
>
>>>I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise
>
> and
>
>>>a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
>>>vise, actually).
>>>
>>>Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
>>>compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole
>
> thing
>
>>>out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I
>
> came up
>
>>>with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
>>>weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
>>>
>>>My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
>>>problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
>
> vise
>
>>>faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x
>
> 8" x
>
>>>60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs
>
> and a
>
>>>hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front
>
> edge of
>
>>>the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut
>
> and
>
>>>started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need
>
> to
>
>>>practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I
>
> would
>
>>>be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and
>
> the
>
>>>whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can
>
> get
>
>>>a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
>>>planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor
>
> was
>
>>>not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
>>>better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve
>
> Knight
>
>>>smoother and had similar things happen.
>>>
>>>So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
>>>eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
>
> something
>
>>>to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
>
> not a
>
>>>good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>>>
>>>I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure
>
> beats
>
>>>the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
>
> hate
>
>>>finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to
>
> upgrade it
>
>>>right off the bat.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>There are no stupid questions.
>>>There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

My bench top is supported by a ledger on the wall and 5 pieces of
plywood. The two ends, and 3 pieces for the 2 center sections to hold
the drawer slides. At each end is an open area to hold 2 Mac tool
cabinets (not chests or roll cabs -- just "extra storage" side mount
cabinets made to attach to a roll cab). The top is 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF
laminated together, topped with 1/4 Masonite and trimmed in poplar (I
was too cheap to use maple). The drawer fronts are Baltic birch, again
because I was too cheap to use maple.

All of that sits on a base made of 2x4's covered with plywood. That
assembly is anchored to the floor. I love overkill!

dave

Juergen Hannappel wrote:

> "Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I would
>>be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and the
>>whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can get
>
>
> That's why my bench which is currently under construction will have
> only one leg and rests on iron angles bolted to the walls of the
> corner of the workshop which it occupies. That way i do not need to
> make it infinitely heavy and yet have it immobile, the leg on the free
> corner allows to hammer down on it also.

I don't think Woodcraft has the Record vises anymore, so you should call
before you make the drive.

I think the handle is about the same width as the jaw faces - about 9" in my
case. I haven't used it that much, but I have no trouble at all getting the
vise tight.

Mike

--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My bench is attached to the wall, so it's not "movable". I can (and
> did) stand on it (I'm 216#), or jump up and down on it with nary a
> noticeable deflection or groan (from the bench, that is!).
>
> Yes, you can easily fill in the holes in the floor with that quick
> setting cement you buy in a small box (no need to cart home a 60# bag of
> cement). Anchoring it to the floor should rid it of the heebie jeebies.
>
> Maybe I should drive up 50 miles to Woodcraft today and look at the
> Record vise. I can always return the POS I bought yesterday and chalk
> up the time wasted on it to "learning"! At least I passed up the Buck
> Brothers low angle block plane. I took a look at it while getting the
> clips at Southern Lumber yesterday. I couldn't even release the movable
> mouth. I took the knurled knob off completely and tried to rotate the
> adjuster. It was jammed, so I gave up and made a mental note that cheap
> is usually crappy. Like the stupid vise I thought I could get away
> with. sigh.
>
> thanks for the info on the Record.
>
> Could you tell how long the handle is? I hope it's longer than the one
> I'm thinking of returning. I looked in the Woodcraft catalog. they
> don't mention handle length. thanks, Mike
>
> dave
>
> Mike in Mystic wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I have the Record 52 1/2 quick-release front vise. It has a 9" jaw
width
> > and 13" maximum opening. It's pretty solid and works great thus far.
The
> > quick-release feature is a great thing. I got mine on a close-out at
> > woodcraft for $85. I don't think you can get them there anymore, but
they
> > probably sell some "economy" version. Lee Valley still sells the real
> > thing, but they're $139. If I were you, I'd go for the 53, which has
10.5"
> > wide jaws and a 15" opening for $149.
> >
> > So, how did you get your bench to be solid as a rock? Is it a
free-standing
> > bench or a wall-mounted one? Your idea about bolting it to the floor is
an
> > idea, but my shop is in the garage and I'm not sure how long we're going
to
> > stay in this house, so putting holes in the garage floor might be a bad
> > idea, although I'm sure I could fill them in easily enough if need be.
I
> > might just put a bunch of bags of sand or something on the shelf to
weigh it
> > down.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> >
> > There are no stupid questions.
> > There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
> >
> >
> > "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Hi Mike,
> >>
> >>I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with 1/4
> >> masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
> >>vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
> >>maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
> >>closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
> >>opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
> >>it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?
> >>
> >>How about putting a couple of sturdy angle iron brackets on the legs and
> >>drill holes in the floor for anchoring the bench?
> >>
> >>dave
> >>
> >>Mike in Mystic wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the
joiner's
> >>>bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
> >>>wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
> >>>economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a
> >
> > top
> >
> >>>skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's,
> >
> > held
> >
> >>>together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very
> >
> > heavy.
> >
> >>>I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
> >>>vise, actually).
> >>>
> >>>Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
> >>>compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole
> >
> > thing
> >
> >>>out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I
> >
> > came up
> >
> >>>with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
> >>>weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
> >>>
> >>>My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> >>>problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
> >
> > vise
> >
> >>>faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x
> >
> > 8" x
> >
> >>>60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs
> >
> > and a
> >
> >>>hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front
> >
> > edge of
> >
> >>>the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut
> >
> > and
> >
> >>>started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I
> >
> > would
> >
> >>>be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I
can
> >
> > get
> >
> >>>a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
> >>>planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor
> >
> > was
> >
> >>>not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
> >>>better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve
> >
> > Knight
> >
> >>>smoother and had similar things happen.
> >>>
> >>>So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> >>>eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
> >
> > something
> >
> >>>to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
> >
> > not a
> >
> >>>good first choice to practice hand planing with?
> >>>
> >>>I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure
> >
> > beats
> >
> >>>the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
> >
> > hate
> >
> >>>finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to
> >
> > upgrade it
> >
> >>>right off the bat.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>
> >>>There are no stupid questions.
> >>>There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > Curly figure is common in maple, if it is even a little bit curly
> > it can be tough to plane because the grain will alternately dive
> > and rise along the edge of the board.
> >
> > Poplar planes easier than anything else I've tried. Beech has been
> > the toughest -- it's like trying to make shavings from hard rubber.
>
> But beech is still "soft" compared to wenge, where i could not get
> real "shavings" but only small stuff that looks like sawdust. Heck,
> the plane seemed to skid over the wood as if it was harder than the
> iron!
> --
> Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
> mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
> Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
> CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Ain't that the truth! I get a few shavings off of Wenge, but mostly it just
crumbles. I tried putting it throught the old Delta 12" Snipemeister, but
it turn it's nose up. Wouldn't even grab the wood. I thought I was going
to have to clean up the rollers, but I tried a couple of other species (red
oak and walnut), and they ran through just fine. Wenge is beautiful stuff,
but hard to work is an understatement.

Cheers,
Eric

"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> found that most of the "checking" ocurred about 12-18" from the end
> of the
> board, so maybe the chip-breaker is getting clogged?

Mike,

IME, if the chip breaker is clogging -- you'll know it. Either the whole
'shaving' will catch at the breaker, and sort of pile up, rather than spill
out, or you'll get little bits of dust/shaving caught up under the breaker
-- it's all pretty obvious, and bad.

Regards,
JT

Hi Mike,

I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with 1/4
masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?

How about putting a couple of sturdy angle iron brackets on the legs and
drill holes in the floor for anchoring the bench?

dave

Mike in Mystic wrote:

> I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
> bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
> wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
> economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a top
> skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's, held
> together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very heavy.
> I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise and
> a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
> vise, actually).
>
> Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
> compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole thing
> out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I came up
> with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
> weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
>
> My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the vise
> faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x 8" x
> 60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs and a
> hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front edge of
> the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut and
> started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need to
> practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I would
> be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and the
> whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can get
> a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
> planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor was
> not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
> better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve Knight
> smoother and had similar things happen.
>
> So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
> to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not a
> good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>
> I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure beats
> the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just hate
> finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to upgrade it
> right off the bat.
>
> Mike
>
> --
>
> There are no stupid questions.
> There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
>
>
>
>

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike in Mystic wrote:
>
> > My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> > problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
> > vise faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise.
>
> No one seems to be raising an eyebrow at this. Maybe I have the concept
> wrong, but it seemed to me that *soft* wood would be better for the vise
> faces. I used some very soft pine for mine, and they seem to be working
> out great. They have some give to them, and shouldn't ever mar anything.

Well, I understand what you're saying about marring the workpiece, but I
want my vise jaws to be durable and not need replacing too often. The
instructions for the Vertias twin-screw vise clearly say to use hardwood. I
guess I assumed I would want to use the same material for the front vise.
The twin-screw vise jaws aren't tapered, though, so maybe that's a critical
difference. It isn't that hard to replace the wooden face on the front
vise, but it would be a BIG chore to replace the twin-screw jaws. I'll have
to think that over.

>
> > So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> > eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
something
> > to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
not
> > a good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>
> I haven't ever tried to plane it, so I can't answer that. If you're
moving
> your entire bench, chances are you're doing it wrong though. I've
> definitely moved my ~250 pound bench around while planing, but I'm finding
> that it's much less likely to happen now that I have a feel for what I'm
> doing, and have really got my planes tuned up. (Tuning should't be much
of
> an issue for you with those spendy critters though.)

The only spend plane is really the Clifton and I got that at more than 50%
off, so I still feel it was worth it. The Knight planes were also on sale
thanks to Steve. The Stanley's were all from ebay, except the #7 which I
bought straight from Patrick Leach. But, you're right, I've probably spent
a LOT more $$ on planes than I should have, considering how poorly I know
how to use them. But, having a #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, Knight smoother, Knight
razee jack, Veritas low-angle block all lined up on the bench side by side
sure looks pretty cool. hehe

>
> I'm very much still learning myself, but I've found big, bench-scooting
> catches usually mean...
>
> * I'm planing against the grain
> * I'm trying to take off too much
> * I'm hitting a knot or really rough patch
> * I'm dealing with changing grain
>
> Skewing the plane a bit helps considerably with rough patches and weird
> grain, but I have some boards with weird grain that I haven't figured out
> how to plane yet, and I've never touched anything more exotic than walnut.
>
I did try the skewing approach, and that did make a difference. I think the
tuning of the plane is probably a big issue for me, although the Knight
planes were tuned on delivery and I haven't used them very much, so I don't
think that's their problem. Probably my set-up of the planes is an even
bigger factor. I tried to take a very very light cut, but perhaps my
impression of a light cut isn't really that light after all. I'm going to
get the Vertias scraper plane for Christmas (SWMBO bought it from Lee Valley
using my customer ID - she obviously doesn't realize that I can see that in
my order history when I look at their webpage hehe. I'm evil, I know) so
maybe that will be able to handle some of the screwy grain I run into.
Still, learning to set up planes seems to be my biggest set back.

> > I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure
beats
> > the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
>
> Me too. I didn't even have a workmate, so I had to do some really
unwieldy
> things.
>
> My bench is non-standard in many ways, but the most curious thing is that
I
> have two vises on the front. I bought a very cheap one just to have
> something. Once I got a taste for having a front vise, that gave me the
> incentive I needed to work at getting my beefy old (and free!) 7" Morgan
> vise restored to operating condition. I didn't see the point in throwing
> away the cheap vise, so I reinstalled it at the other end. With two front
> vises about 3' apart, I get a stable way to hold stuff on edge without
> having to screw with board jacks. I could use a tail vise, but so far I'm
> getting by OK using the pop-up dog on the Morgan to jam a board into oak
> dogs from the side. I haven't managed to dislodge a 4/4ish board with
that
> setup yet, though it doesn't do very well at clamping really thin stock.

The two front vises idea isn't that unusual, I think. I know that during my
perusal of woodworking websites over the last few years that I've seen quite
a few benches set up like that. Once I get the twin-screw vise installed, I
think the amazing flexibility of the Sam Allen joiner's bench is going to
come shining through. The dog holes on the front edge of the bench, coupled
with a side dog hole on the moving vise jaw of the twin-screw vise, will
allow clamping of large panels for edge work. Using hold-downs on the dog
holes in the legs, while holding long pieces in the front vise, will keep
them extremely stable. And all the dog holes in the bench top will allow
virtually any clamping arrangement I can come up with.

So, I guess I need to read some more plane tuning books. Any suggestions?

Mike



>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>

"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:52:25 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's, held
> >together with truss rods
>
> How much diagonalisation is there ?

Are you just making up words here?

> We're both going to have to stick something diagonal up the back.

Tack some plywood on it.

-Jack

"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> With practice you should be able to read the grain
> correctly at least half the time.

> FF

With results like that you might try planing blindfolded. Picking a
direction at random is right half the time.

-Jack

Mike in Idaho wrote:

> I've planed cherry, red oak, birch, hard maple, and pine. I'd
> definitely say that maple is a lot more difficult to plane than the
> other woods. I found that I was sticking the plane alot (it would get
> about half way in the stroke and stop). But after some practice I
> found that either I really muscled through the stroke in which case it
> worked fine, or I took the stroke a lot faster than with other woods
> and slightly less pressure and that worked fine too.

Assuming everything is set up and functioning properly, one more
thing he might want to consider is taking a hunk of paraffin (the type
you get in the grocery store for canning works fine; Gulfwax is the
stuff we get here) and making a few "scribbles" on the sole of the
plane. But be careful; the first time you take a pass, hold on tight or
you might watch the plane go flying across your workshop. :-}

Also, on the idea of pressure: For problematic woods, I usually
find that I have better results when I apply *less*, rather than more
downwards pressure. And especially if you're trying to take a fairly
substantial shaving, you'll end up sticking more if you are powering the
plane downward. If you've ever used a scrub plane, this becomes
apparent. The motion for scrubbing is a short almost "scooping" motion;
if you keep too much downward pressure, the plane just tends to bog down.


Chuck Vance

A couple of thoughts Mike,

Do all four legs rest evenly on the floor? Even though they are touching
the floor does not mean they are evenly distributing the weight. That
might let the bench skip a bit under a side load.

Second, I think I remember seeing early pics of your bench and it had heavy
crossmembers spanning the legs. Load those suckers up with ballast. For me
that is usually chocked full of scraps of hardwood and exotics that I don't
want, or can't bear to throw away. You could use some bags of sand or
redi-mix.

My bench must move occasionally to get projects in or out, so I would not
bolt it down or to a wall. Might work for you though. I'd like to suggest
something high friction between the legs and the floor, but don't know just
what that would be at the moment.

--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop


"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
> bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
> wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
> economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a top
> skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's, held
> together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very
heavy.
> I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise
and
> a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
> vise, actually).
>
> Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
> compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole thing
> out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I came
up
> with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
> weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
>
> My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
vise
> faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x 8"
x
> 60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs and
a
> hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front edge
of
> the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut and
> started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need to
> practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I
would
> be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and
the
> whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can
get
> a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
> planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor
was
> not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
> better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve
Knight
> smoother and had similar things happen.
>
> So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
> to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not
a
> good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>
> I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure beats
> the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
hate
> finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to upgrade
it
> right off the bat.
>
> Mike
>
> --
>
> There are no stupid questions.
> There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
>
>
>
>

Mike in Mystic wrote:

> My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
> vise faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise.

No one seems to be raising an eyebrow at this. Maybe I have the concept
wrong, but it seemed to me that *soft* wood would be better for the vise
faces. I used some very soft pine for mine, and they seem to be working
out great. They have some give to them, and shouldn't ever mar anything.

> So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
> to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not
> a good first choice to practice hand planing with?

I haven't ever tried to plane it, so I can't answer that. If you're moving
your entire bench, chances are you're doing it wrong though. I've
definitely moved my ~250 pound bench around while planing, but I'm finding
that it's much less likely to happen now that I have a feel for what I'm
doing, and have really got my planes tuned up. (Tuning should't be much of
an issue for you with those spendy critters though.)

I'm very much still learning myself, but I've found big, bench-scooting
catches usually mean...

* I'm planing against the grain
* I'm trying to take off too much
* I'm hitting a knot or really rough patch
* I'm dealing with changing grain

Skewing the plane a bit helps considerably with rough patches and weird
grain, but I have some boards with weird grain that I haven't figured out
how to plane yet, and I've never touched anything more exotic than walnut.

> I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure beats
> the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just

Me too. I didn't even have a workmate, so I had to do some really unwieldy
things.

My bench is non-standard in many ways, but the most curious thing is that I
have two vises on the front. I bought a very cheap one just to have
something. Once I got a taste for having a front vise, that gave me the
incentive I needed to work at getting my beefy old (and free!) 7" Morgan
vise restored to operating condition. I didn't see the point in throwing
away the cheap vise, so I reinstalled it at the other end. With two front
vises about 3' apart, I get a stable way to hold stuff on edge without
having to screw with board jacks. I could use a tail vise, but so far I'm
getting by OK using the pop-up dog on the Morgan to jam a board into oak
dogs from the side. I haven't managed to dislodge a 4/4ish board with that
setup yet, though it doesn't do very well at clamping really thin stock.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<101120031511037253%[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mike in
> Mystic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> > eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it something
> > to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple not a
> > good first choice to practice hand planing with?
>
> As a guess, possible problems...
>
> 1) blade isn't as sharp as it needs to be;
>
> 2) plane set to take too thick a shaving
>
> 3) chip breaker too far back from end of the blade
>
> I've found that when I really have to reef on a plane it's one of the
> above.
>

Good advice. I'll add that you should read the grain and plane in
so that the grain rises to the surface in the direction you are
planing. With practice you should be able to read the grain
correctly at least half the time.

Or, if you catch or snag, try planing in the opposite direction.
Skewing the plane can help too.

Curly figure is common in maple, if it is even a little bit curly
it can be tough to plane because the grain will alternately dive
and rise along the edge of the board.

Poplar planes easier than anything else I've tried. Beech has been
the toughest -- it's like trying to make shavings from hard rubber.

--

FF

> djb

"JackD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > With practice you should be able to read the grain
> > correctly at least half the time.
>
> > FF
>
> With results like that you might try planing blindfolded. Picking a
> direction at random is right half the time.
>

Congradulations. You got it in one.

--

FF

"Did I forget a smiley?"

"Eric Lund" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) writes:
> >
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > Curly figure is common in maple, if it is even a little bit curly
> > > it can be tough to plane because the grain will alternately dive
> > > and rise along the edge of the board.
> > >
> > > Poplar planes easier than anything else I've tried. Beech has been
> > > the toughest -- it's like trying to make shavings from hard rubber.
> >
> > But beech is still "soft" compared to wenge, where i could not get
> > real "shavings" but only small stuff that looks like sawdust. Heck,
> > the plane seemed to skid over the wood as if it was harder than the
> > iron!
> > --
> > Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
> > mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
> > Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
> > CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
>
> Ain't that the truth! I get a few shavings off of Wenge, but mostly it just
> crumbles. I tried putting it throught the old Delta 12" Snipemeister, but
> it turn it's nose up. Wouldn't even grab the wood. I thought I was going
> to have to clean up the rollers, but I tried a couple of other species (red
> oak and walnut), and they ran through just fine. Wenge is beautiful stuff,
> but hard to work is an understatement.
>

Beech is even soft compared to maple. The issue with beech is that it
seems to resist splitting so well that as you push the plane it feels
like if you let go it would spring back at you. It makes good shavings
but if you do a project in beech you can expect to have arms like a truck
driver by the time you're done planing.

--

FF

Doug Miller wrote:

>>Beech is even soft compared to maple. The issue with beech is that it
>>seems to resist splitting so well ... [snip]
>
> Man, that's the truth! Ever split it by hand for firewood? Talk about
> _work_!

No, can't say as I have. There's a beech tree somewhere in the woods near
hear. I've seen beechnuts, but never picked out the tree. That's about as
close to knowing anything about the species as I come.

Having said all that useless stuff, I'll pit your beech against my 2'
diameter red gum crotch and we'll see who breaks the most mauls. Took us
two years to split that damn thing, going out to whack on it whenever we
got pissed off.

Helped the McIntyre family get through my teenage years. I don't know
whether Dad or I got the most whacks in, but I was the one who finally
split it.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Andy Dingley wrote:

> We're both going to have to stick something diagonal up the back.

That's what *she* said.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:19:31 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So, how did you get your bench to be solid as a rock?

I store the heaviest stuff I have, in MDF cabinets, with doors, under
my bench. I estimate the cabinets and contents to add 250-300
pounds to the bench.

What's heavy? MDF Scary Sharp panels, a pail of water with
waterstones in it, a bench grinder, full bottles of finishing
materials and glues, etc...

Barry

Hi Dave,

I have the Record 52 1/2 quick-release front vise. It has a 9" jaw width
and 13" maximum opening. It's pretty solid and works great thus far. The
quick-release feature is a great thing. I got mine on a close-out at
woodcraft for $85. I don't think you can get them there anymore, but they
probably sell some "economy" version. Lee Valley still sells the real
thing, but they're $139. If I were you, I'd go for the 53, which has 10.5"
wide jaws and a 15" opening for $149.

So, how did you get your bench to be solid as a rock? Is it a free-standing
bench or a wall-mounted one? Your idea about bolting it to the floor is an
idea, but my shop is in the garage and I'm not sure how long we're going to
stay in this house, so putting holes in the garage floor might be a bad
idea, although I'm sure I could fill them in easily enough if need be. I
might just put a bunch of bags of sand or something on the shelf to weigh it
down.

Mike

--

There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.


"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Mike,
>
> I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with 1/4
> masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
> vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
> maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
> closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
> opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
> it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?
>
> How about putting a couple of sturdy angle iron brackets on the legs and
> drill holes in the floor for anchoring the bench?
>
> dave
>
> Mike in Mystic wrote:
>
> > I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's
> > bench from Sam Allen's workbench book. I knew going in that the bench
> > wasn't going to be the crown jewel of benches. I went for utility and
> > economy. I built the top out of 3 laminated layers of 3/4" MDF and a
top
> > skin of 1/4" masonite. The base is just douglas fir 4x4's and 2x4's,
held
> > together with truss rods. It's very rigid and sturdy - just not very
heavy.
> > I spent my money on a couple of good vises - a Record 52 1/2 front vise
and
> > a Vertias twin-screw end vise. (I still have to install the twin-screw
> > vise, actually).
> >
> > Anyway, I calculated the weight of the bench to be about 215 lbs. I
> > compared this on paper to what I would have had if I made the whole
thing
> > out of hard maple with a 2.75" thick top and a hard maple base and I
came up
> > with about 250 lbs. So, even though I'm not using primo materials, the
> > weight difference doesn't appear to be as drastic as I thought.
> >
> > My problem is that I when took my bench for a test drive I had some
> > problems. I have a big slab of hard maple that is going to become the
vise
> > faces for the Veritas vise, as well as the Record vise. It is 2.75" x
8" x
> > 60". I clamped it in the front vise on one edge, and used bench dogs
and a
> > hold down in my board jack holes to hold it securely along the front
edge of
> > the bench. I then took my Clifton #6 and set it for a pretty thin cut
and
> > started planing one edge. Things went pretty good, but I clearly need
to
> > practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I
would
> > be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and
the
> > whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can
get
> > a lot of momentum (which I always thought was a good thing when hand
> > planing). At any rate, having the whole bench chatter across the floor
was
> > not a good thing. I tried adjusting the plane and couldn't get it much
> > better. I then used my Steve Knight razee jack plane, and the Steve
Knight
> > smoother and had similar things happen.
> >
> > So, I guess my question is can this problem (i.e. getting "snags") be
> > eliminated if I just knew better how to adjust my planes? Is it
something
> > to do with my technique that is causing these problems? Is hard maple
not a
> > good first choice to practice hand planing with?
> >
> > I will say that the bench is going to be a wonderful tool. It sure
beats
> > the hell out of the workmate that I had used in the past hehe. I just
hate
> > finishing (well, almost) a project and then finding out I need to
upgrade it
> > right off the bat.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> >
> > There are no stupid questions.
> > There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> writes:
>I don't think Woodcraft has the Record vises anymore, so you should call
>before you make the drive.

I believe CB Tool in San Jose, CA. had them last time I stopped by.

scott

Mike in Mystic wrote:

> difference. It isn't that hard to replace the wooden face on the front
> vise, but it would be a BIG chore to replace the twin-screw jaws. I'll
> have to think that over.

Well, I can't really say I have an opinion on what to do with the twin
screw, since I've never seen one first-hand. On my front vises, I made
sure I could change the jaws with them installed. I had to modify one of
them to allow for that.

Anyway, I've only been using pine jaws for maybe two months, so I have no
idea what the long view will look like. So far they're holding up fine,
and working just how I want, but maybe I'm stupid.

(Plus I had lots and lots of this pine laying around, and better uses for my
precious, limited stock of hardwood.)

> The only spend plane is really the Clifton and I got that at more than 50%
> off, so I still feel it was worth it. The Knight planes were also on sale
> thanks to Steve. The Stanley's were all from ebay, except the #7 which I

I'm sure they're all worth every penny. Just can't afford them, so they're
spendy to me, even at half price.

> bought straight from Patrick Leach. But, you're right, I've probably
> spent a LOT more $$ on planes than I should have, considering how poorly I
> know
> how to use them. But, having a #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, Knight smoother,
> Knight razee jack, Veritas low-angle block all lined up on the bench side
> by side sure looks pretty cool. hehe

Hey, I'm not saying you're spending too much. You have the means, so spend
whatever the hell you want. I don't have the means, so I have to make do
with whatever I can manage to find for about $25. That rules out almost
everything, so it's going to take me a long time to fill out my kit. Some
day I'll be out of debt, and then I can afford everything I can imagine if
I just plan well. I have means too, just that I'm currently pissing all it
of away to pay the price for a total lack of foresight.

> bigger factor. I tried to take a very very light cut, but perhaps my
> impression of a light cut isn't really that light after all. I'm going to

Could be. I thought I was taking light cuts with my modern #4 until I got
an oldish #5. Light shavings are hard to describe, but once you've made
some, you'll understand what everyone is talking about. Very light
shavings are much thinner than cigarette paper.

Depending on what you're doing, you don't always want shavings *that* light
though, because you'll be working forever.

> Still, learning to set up planes seems to be my biggest set back.

Yup, it sure is. I'm still too clueless in that area to give any advice.
When something works, I know enough to shut up about it and consider myself
lucky, and NEVER change it if I can help it :) So I'm not going to tell
you how to set your cap iron, adjust your mouth, what blade angle to hone
to, or anything like that.

> So, I guess I need to read some more plane tuning books. Any suggestions?

Nup. I don't get any of my books until Christmas, and I don't know if any
of them are any good yet. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> writes:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I've got the opposite problem. My bench (also 3/4 MDF times 2, with
> 1/4 masonite top) is solid as a rock. The problem is the cheapy ($35)
> vise that I can't get to hold wood solidly enough. I ended up making
> maple faces about 3 x 7 and tapered them a bit so that the top was
> closer together. Even when I reef on the handle (too short in my
> opinion) as hard as I can I can move a several foot board if I push on
> it. How do you like the Record vise and what model and cost?

That's push on the unclamped end, i guess. The solution to this
problem is having that end of the board supported by either a "bench
slave" or a peg protruding from a hole in the benches leg. Clamping so
hard that a long board can't be moved is not a good idea since the
lever arm provided by the length of the board give so much force that
you would seriously dent the board at the vise.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> writes:

> I just finished building a new workbench - an exact copy of the joiner's

[...]

> practice my planing technique. Then I started to get some catches. I would
> be applying a lot of lateral force and then hit a snag or something and the
> whole bench would move. I should say, I'm a pretty big guy and so I can get

That's why my bench which is currently under construction will have
only one leg and rests on iron angles bolted to the walls of the
corner of the workshop which it occupies. That way i do not need to
make it infinitely heavy and yet have it immobile, the leg on the free
corner allows to hammer down on it also.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

[email protected] (Fred the Red Shirt) writes:


[...]

> Curly figure is common in maple, if it is even a little bit curly
> it can be tough to plane because the grain will alternately dive
> and rise along the edge of the board.
>
> Poplar planes easier than anything else I've tried. Beech has been
> the toughest -- it's like trying to make shavings from hard rubber.

But beech is still "soft" compared to wenge, where i could not get
real "shavings" but only small stuff that looks like sawdust. Heck,
the plane seemed to skid over the wood as if it was harder than the
iron!
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23