TV legal ad focused on table saw injuries

On Sat, 10 May 2014 08:14:26 -0600, "WW" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>
>"woodchucker" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>>
>
>We are in danger, no doubt.
>What's worse is the kids today are less capable then we were. There
>reading and math scores are very low.
>The loss of vocational schooling in the middle and high school (wood
>shop, metal shop) leave no where for these less educated kids to go.

One thing the county where I lived in Vermont did really well was
vocational education. They didn't do wood shop or metal shop for the
"college bound" kids, rather had a complete school for vo-ed, complete
with plumbing, electrical, and carpentry. IIRC, they built a house
every year. It was a separate county-wide school, though shared the
high school property and some facilities.

>Add to that our lack of making hard decisions and you have a firestorm
>brewing.. of catastrophic proportions.

True that. The tipping point can't be far away with 1 worker per
person on the government check. Demographics isn't going the right
way, either.

>In the old days, people were more adept at adapting, today, less so.

That's been happening since at least the middle ages.
Industrialization, if not civilization itself, demands specialization.
OTOH, I've think been successful in finding work easily because I
prefer to be a generalist in my profession. I've rarely done exactly
the same thing in any two (consecutive, at least) positions. On the
down side of that, I'm in mid-level rather than management (though
it's the way I like it).

On 5/7/2014 9:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> knuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> *snip*
>
>> Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
>> stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
>> problem.
>>
>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
>> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
>> wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.
>>
>> The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
>> saw off
>>
>> Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
>> physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
>> made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.
>
> Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
> looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
> completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

Stop all movement and then try to shut off the saw with out moving the work.

>
> I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
> on just a few:
> 1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
> switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.

Full 3/4" sheets I try to break up with my track saw or have my wife on
hand to turn the TS on and off and to help me keep the edge against the
fence. Typically the work is too heavy to cause a serious kickback
should you bind the blade. the blase most often creates a burned wider
kerf. IME the small pieces are the ones that can cause the most harm.




> 2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
> the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
> splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
> switch.)

Not sure what you are describing here but typically the switch is on the
left side of the blade. The work is always between me and the fence.

Some thing to consider about the safest place to be during a cut. I
know a lot of people that want to use the fence to help protect so they
stand with the fence between them and the work. IMHO it is far better
to stand in a position that affords you maximum control over the cut vs
one that may not necessarily be ad protective as you think.

If the board takes flight no where is necessarily a safe place to be.



> 3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
> The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
> blade.

You need to plan your feather board placement better. The feather board
should not allow a start of a cut at all if properly placed, meaning the
feather board is always in front of the blade.

On 5/9/2014 1:54 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be
>>> complaining
>>> about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just
>>> keeps
>>> going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
>>> everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.
>
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when
>> there were real problems.
> -----------------------------------------
> It was pretty straight forward.
>
> There was THE WAR to win.
>
> Whatever was needed got done.
>
> And yes, the Hollywood propaganda machine was in full glory.
>
> Watch some old flicks from the war years.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
> Lew
>
>
And the top income tax rate in 1945 was 94%. Those guys knew how to
fund a war.
mahalo,
jo4hn

On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 5/7/2014 3:23 PM, Baxter wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
>>>> BillinGA <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a
>>>>> law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed
>>>>> injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many
>>>>> stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said
>>>>> manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative
>>>>> measures available and these saw companies could be held
>>>>> accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw
>>>>> I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be
>>>>> just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going
>>>>> after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were
>>>>> required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen
>>>>> this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
>>>>> coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a
>>>>> small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers
>>>>> don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
>>>>> responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was
>>>>> made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish
>>>>> I had a lot of new tools.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
>>>> destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that
>>>> releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table
>>>> top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the
>>>> saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be a SawStop patent infringement.
>>
>> Don't see how - and maybe they're already working on it:
>> http://tinyurl.com/maeorhg
>>
>>
>
>
>According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
>perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
>March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
>dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
>allowing this amendment.

Even if the PTO didn't allow this, the patent covers the sensor pretty
broadly. I read through these patents a couple of years ago and came
to the conclusion that Gass knows patent law pretty well. He's got
another eight (give or take) clear and then some, with the less broad
claims of later patents.

knuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*

> Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
> stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
> problem.
>
> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
> wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.
>
> The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
> saw off
>
> Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
> physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
> made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
on just a few:
1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.
2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
switch.)
3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
blade.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

> Anytime I'm ripping I use the wheeled hold-downs and anti-kickback
> devices. While it's still not the safest thing to do, I can usually
> let
> go of the wood and the wheels will hold it down and against the
> fence.
> Then I can turn off the saw and fix the problem. Here's a link to
> the
> ones I use:
>
> <http://woodworker.com/anti-kickback-hold-down-mssu-96974.asp?search=table
> %20saw%20accessories&searchmode=2>
------------------------------------------------------------

SFWIW, I've used the BoardBuddie (Yellow) quite successfully
when I ripped a little over a mile of 2x12x24ft Doug fir into
1-1/2"x5/8"x24ft battens to build my sailboat mold.

That little project took a whole weekend and filled a dumpster
to the top with saw dust.

Lew

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

> That sawdust is my current problem. After my recent second bout
> with
> pneumonia, my lung guy lectured me about sawdust exposure. I'd been
> using a Dust-Bee-Gone mask and thought I was OK, but I checked and
> it
> only claims to stop stuff down to 3 microns. So I went out
> yesterday and
> bought a 3M respirator with a P100 rating. I haven't tried it yet,
> but I
> doubt it'll be as comfortable as the mask.
>
> OTOH, it looks like it'll be more comfortable than my old Willson
> "gas
> mask" and it does give the same or better protection against
> finishing
> fumes.
>
> How's that saying go? "If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd
> have
> taken better care of myself." :-)
------------------------------------------
There are some advantages to living here in SoCal including being
able to do a lot of your work outside which included making those
battens.

The runout table consisted of about 30 feet of roller conveyor while
the infeed consisted of roller stands made from welding pipe to
car tire steel rims.

At the end of the day, sweep all the saw dust into a pile and shovel
it into the dumpster.

Good luck with your respirator.

Lew

>> And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be
>> complaining
>> about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just
>> keeps
>> going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
>> everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.


"Leon" wrote:

> Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when
> there were real problems.
-----------------------------------------
It was pretty straight forward.

There was THE WAR to win.

Whatever was needed got done.

And yes, the Hollywood propaganda machine was in full glory.

Watch some old flicks from the war years.

Lew




Lew

Keith Nuttle wrote:

>>> Finally if you leave the Global warming religion and look at other
>>> field you will find the long term studies do not support the
>>> global
>>> warming data.
--------------------------------
Baxter wrote:

>> And you'd be wrong. I don't think this is the forum for political
>> discussions - except as they affect the subject of the forum:
>> -----------
>> SEATTLE — Global warming is already altering forest landscapes in
>> the
>> U.S. Northwest, increasing wildfire risks and threatening coastal
>> communities, according to a new federal scientific report released
>> Tuesday.
--------------------------------------

"Leon" wrote:

> Forrest fires are nothing new and there will always be a first for
> some lovations. Follow the money.
<snip>
-------------------------------------------
What money should be followed?

Lew

Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
>> perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
>> March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
>> dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
>> allowing this amendment.
>
> Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
> saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.
Don't get me started with why r12 freon was out lawned.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
>>> been this way since the beginnin of time.
>>
>> The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
>> that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that
>> can continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome
>> gets out of hand?
>
> Not that long Larry - at some point the rats will start eating each other.
> Problem solved. We are seeing that in segments of our society today.
> Darwin and human nature seem to have a way of controlling things despite our
> best hopes/fears.


You mean like the earth quakes and wild fires in California? :-)


>>
>> BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
>> million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
>> Both numbers from the census.
>
> I don't doubt those numbers one bit Larry. Just not sure how meaningful
> they are.

I'm not sure either well maybe I am but the data is out of context, much
like the data that was used to back up the global warming theory. Had we
had the same methods of collecting data and same advancements in computers
and programming 25-30 years earlier it would have been determined that we
were in the middle of global cooling.

The big issue with all of this is that the whole picture is not being
looked at, Only the data that happens to be collected at a particular time
is being scrutinized. Living near the coast, hurricanes are a hot spot of
interest with the weather reporters. Because of global bla bla bla/climate
change we saw a ramp up in named storms each year. Are we having more
storms than 60 years ago, probably not. It used to be that we did not have
the ability to track every storm coming off of the west African coast hence
we had fewer storms. Today I think simple cloud cover over the African
coast is targeted. Not to mention that if a known storm was not a threat
to the US it was not even named unless it actually qualified as a
hurricane. And now we are naming winter storm fronts!

Suddenly, relatively speaking, too much data and too little used by those
that are totally overwhelmed is the actual problem.

On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
>>> perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
>>> March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
>>> dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
>>> allowing this amendment.
>>
>> Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
>> saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?
>
>SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.

Not true. Most companies file patents as a purely defensive move.
Most of the remaining license patents on a "reasonable and
non-discriminatory" basis. Few attempt to corner the market and
damned few attempt to get the federal government to put their
competition out of business.

>Don't get me started with why r12 freon was out lawned.

Does it grow grass too? ;-)

On 5/7/2014 10:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> knuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> *snip*
>
>> Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
>> stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
>> problem.
>>
>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
>> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
>> wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.
>>
>> The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
>> saw off
>>
>> Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
>> physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
>> made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.
>
> Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
> looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
> completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?
>
> I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
> on just a few:
> 1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
> switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.
> 2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
> the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
> splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
> switch.)
> 3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
> The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
> blade.
>
> Puckdropper
>
All of those are resolvable by making one of those PVC frames that allow
you to hit it with your foot from anywhere and shut the saw.

But that leaves you unbalanced.
It may wind up getting hit inadvertently while passing a piece through
making the second start up dangerous.

--
Jeff

On 5/10/2014 8:57 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>>>> Finally if you leave the Global warming religion and look at other
>>>> field you will find the long term studies do not support the
>>>> global
>>>> warming data.
> --------------------------------
> Baxter wrote:
>
>>> And you'd be wrong. I don't think this is the forum for political
>>> discussions - except as they affect the subject of the forum:
>>> -----------
>>> SEATTLE — Global warming is already altering forest landscapes in
>>> the
>>> U.S. Northwest, increasing wildfire risks and threatening coastal
>>> communities, according to a new federal scientific report released
>>> Tuesday.
> --------------------------------------
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Forrest fires are nothing new and there will always be a first for
>> some lovations. Follow the money.
> <snip>
> -------------------------------------------
> What money should be followed?
>
> Lew
>
>
Any and all money that funds the studies. IMHO most studies will skew
the results to keep the money coming in.

On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
> BillinGA <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law
>> firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such
>> as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative
>> from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to
>> know there were preventative measures available and these saw
>> companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed
>> and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these
>> injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison
>> would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before
>> they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have
>> seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
>> coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small
>> price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share
>> my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of
>> the operator, no matter when their device was made and sold.
>> Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of
>> new tools.
>>
>
> I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
> destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases
> a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the
> blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy
> the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
>


That would be a SawStop patent infringement.

On 5/9/2014 1:46 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.
>
> No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
> capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
> and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
> Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored the
> population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal and big
> oil scream about damage to their profits.
>
> And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't know
> of a better system.
>
> I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so stupid,
> we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.
>

We are in danger, no doubt.
What's worse is the kids today are less capable then we were. There
reading and math scores are very low.
The loss of vocational schooling in the middle and high school (wood
shop, metal shop) leave no where for these less educated kids to go.

Add to that our lack of making hard decisions and you have a firestorm
brewing.. of catastrophic proportions.

In the old days, people were more adept at adapting, today, less so.


--
Jeff

"BillinGA" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law firm
>going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such as missing
>digits and nasty cuts >with many stitches...the narrative from a pretty
>blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to know there were
>preventative measures available and these saw >companies could be held
>accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw I am
>aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be just me but it
> >seems like a suitable comparison would be going after an automaker that
>did not provide airbags before they were required by law. I guess miter
>saws are next. Should have >seen this coming when McDonalds was
>successfully sued for selling hot coffee. I am aware of the argument that a
>brake cartridge is a small price to pay for safety but >wonder if other
>woodworkers don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
>responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was made and
>sold. >Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of
>new tools.

Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they enjoy
success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
see:

A lock-out device on table saws that will not allow them to start if there
is no fence or miter gauge installed (the flooring guys would hate that and
other fixtures would be a problem without corresponding sensors (e.g.,
sleds, tenonning jigs)).
A lock-out device on drill presses such that if the work is not clamped down
the drill press will not start (I'd be surprised if anyone "always" clamps
the work down).
A lock-out device on bandsaws such that if the space between the upper blade
guide and the wood exceeds say 1/4" the saw will not start.
A laser activated kill switch with brake on jointers if your hands get
within say 3" of the knives (a brake on a fly wheel like a chainsaw...
non-destructive unlike SawStop).
Etc.
I'm sure we can all think of various tools and "dangerous" operator
practices that could be technologized to make them "safe," and thus become
retro-active targets for the lawyers.

I'd think chainsaws would be the most dangerous power tool out there...
perhaps the day will come that a mandatory training and certification class
is required to buy or operate one... YouTube is full of good examples of
bad practices and older saws that lack all the "modern" safety devices could
be easy targets.

Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

"woodchucker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>

We are in danger, no doubt.
What's worse is the kids today are less capable then we were. There
reading and math scores are very low.
The loss of vocational schooling in the middle and high school (wood
shop, metal shop) leave no where for these less educated kids to go.

Add to that our lack of making hard decisions and you have a firestorm
brewing.. of catastrophic proportions.

In the old days, people were more adept at adapting, today, less so.


--
Jeff

I had 2 wood shop classes in high school. In the 40s. Also aeronautics and
chemistry and electronics. This made my life what it is and took me into
jobs I liked. WW

On 5/7/2014 1:11 PM, Baxter wrote:

> I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
> destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases
> a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the
> blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy
> the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
>

You should start working on it. I imagine the SawStop people tried to
make something that does not destroy the blade. Maybe you will do
better and make a fortune.

On 5/7/2014 3:23 PM, Baxter wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
>>> BillinGA <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a
>>>> law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed
>>>> injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many
>>>> stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said
>>>> manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative
>>>> measures available and these saw companies could be held
>>>> accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw
>>>> I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be
>>>> just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going
>>>> after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were
>>>> required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen
>>>> this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
>>>> coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a
>>>> small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers
>>>> don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
>>>> responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was
>>>> made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish
>>>> I had a lot of new tools.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
>>> destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that
>>> releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table
>>> top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the
>>> saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That would be a SawStop patent infringement.
>
> Don't see how - and maybe they're already working on it:
> http://tinyurl.com/maeorhg
>
>


According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:

>
>Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they
>enjoy
>success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
>see:
>

>Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

>Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
>in various public offices), not the "state".

The problem is the legal challenges eventually turn into laws or
bureaucratic regulations.... OSHA, CPSC...

Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
>> which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
>> class actions.
>
>Bzzzt ...
>
>"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"
>
>This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.
>
>The Feds are the ones who fucked up the patent system to start with.
>
>... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"! ;)

Surely they don't import the jurors, who decide the case, from outside
the eastern district of texas?

On 5/7/2014 12:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
>>> which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
>>> class actions.
>>
>> Bzzzt ...
>>
>> "United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"
>>
>> This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.
>>
>> The Feds are the ones who fucked up the patent system to start with.
>>
>> ... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"! ;)
>
> Surely they don't import the jurors, who decide the case, from outside
> the eastern district of texas?

You'd be surprised how many are transplants from the East and West
coast. Damn few second generation Texans left down here.

But that is beside the point. Jurors much decide theses cases, with
great influence from the Federal judges, on FEDERAL law.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:19:01 -0400, knuttle
>Every campaign to add some safety device to an auto said it would lower
>the death/accident rate by 10% With the hundreds of items added there
>are essentially no death/accident.

I'd suggest you're reading it wrong. A seatbelt for example, would
lower the death rate well more than 10% from being thrown out of the
vehicle or flattening onto the steering wheel. A side air would lower
death and injury from being broadsided. No safety device is going to
lower all types of injuries. But, it's shear lunacy to suggest that
most safety devices are a waste of time. Hell, a brake light is a
safety device. Are you claiming they're a useless safety addition?

Just like your safety equipped tablesaw which isn't going to eliminate
all injuries, but it has an excellent chance of eliminating the most
common serious injury.

On 5/8/2014 12:36 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
>> perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
>> March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
>> dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
>> allowing this amendment.
>
> Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
> saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?
>

You know, it's not a monopoly. They offered it out initially. The
companies turned their noses at it.

Modifying a patent is pretty common.

Read this, and notice they modified the patent.
From Lee Valley , got it today.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Newsletters/Redirect.aspx?cpid=4C3E24E8A14BAB44DF3BD54A3BEE0D70&cid=1057&lid=16


--
Jeff

On 5/6/2014 9:51 PM, BillinGA wrote:
> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative measures available and these saw companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device w
as made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of new tools.
>

It is my opinion that the only device that will totally prevent injuries
is the blob that sits in the middle of your shoulder. Even with the
latest technology there will be accidents. To paraphrase Smokey the
Bear. "Only you can prevent accidents."

A great example of this is the automobile. If you look at the last 50
years, and look at all of the safety items placed on autos, there should
be no accidents or deaths today, or at least it should be less that
0.000001%

Every campaign to add some safety device to an auto said it would lower
the death/accident rate by 10% With the hundreds of items added there
are essentially no death/accident.

It does not matter what you do to a device to make it safe there will
always be someone who figures out a way to use it to create an injury or
death.

Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the problem.

I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I wanted
to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.

The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the saw
off

Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not made
the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

John Grossbohlin wrote:

>
> Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Preach it brother!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there.
Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
>> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...
>
>
> I believe that sentence should stop there.
> Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.

Repeat -... period!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>
>> Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if
>> they enjoy success there other power tools will join the party. In
>> the future I can see:
>>
>
>> Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...
>
> Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
> in various public offices), not the "state".
>

As I understand it, the term "the mommy state" does not refer to the state
as much as it does both the politicians and the legal industry that plays on
the emotions of the moms of the world. Those moms become a faction, or a
force, or a movement that the politicians and lawyers leverage for their own
selfish desires.

> Regardless, it's all pretty silly, and nobody is talking about banning
> all the power tools on the secondary market, are they?
>

Nope.

>
> The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
> which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
> class actions.

Oh quit yer cryin'. You wanna see bad, come on up to NY...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/7/14, 11:53 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/7/2014 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
>>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first
>>> stupid mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...
>>
>>
>> I believe that sentence should stop there. Out-feed feather boards
>> are dangerous, period.
>>
>>
>
>
> Actually there is an instance when they are quite useful, If you are
> plowing a grove and or not making a through cut.
>
> I do this all the time when cutting groves for drawer bottoms.
>
> Anything "through" should not have an out feed feather board.
>

Yes, of course. That was the context of the conversation... he said
ripping.


>
> And I sit here typing this while listening to the flooring guys
> cutting the hickory wood treads for our stairs using a bench top Skil
> TS with out benefit of miter gauge or rip fence. They have
> insurance.


I believe those thing are responsible for probably 90% of TS accidents.
I was helping a friend finish out his studio space and his other friend
was doing most of the work with his own power tools. He had one of
those Skils, which should never be referred to as table saws... they are
so freakin tiny. Anyway, no guard, no miter gauge, no splitter, and the
thing was sitting directly on a smooth concrete floor. I made one cut
on the thing while experiencing an instant cold sweat and that was my
last cut with it. I refused to do any more.

I told my friend that this guy was going to hurt himself, not a matter
of if, but when.
He called me about 6 months later to say the guy was in the hospital
recovering from reconstructive surgery on his hand.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

BillinGA <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law
> firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such
> as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative
> from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to
> know there were preventative measures available and these saw
> companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed
> and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these
> injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison
> would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before
> they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have
> seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
> coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small
> price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share
> my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of
> the operator, no matter when their device was made and sold.
> Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of
> new tools.
>

I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases
a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the
blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy
the blade - all you do is reset the latch.

--
-----------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-----------------------------------------------------

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in news:lkdm0i$b7h$1
@dont-email.me:

> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
>>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
>>> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...
>>
>>
>> I believe that sentence should stop there.
>> Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.
>
> Repeat -... period!
>
I don't think that's the case - I find a featherboard mounted vertically on
the fence works fine on outfeed. Featherboard equivalents mounted on
riving knife are common. etc.

Mounting featherboard horizontally on saw table at outfeed is asking for
trouble/injury.

--
-----------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-----------------------------------------------------

On 5/7/14, 12:22 PM, Baxter wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:lkdm0i$b7h$1 @dont-email.me:
>
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
>>>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first
>>>> stupid mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that sentence should stop there. Out-feed feather
>>> boards are dangerous, period.
>>
>> Repeat -... period!
>>
> I don't think that's the case - I find a featherboard mounted
> vertically on the fence works fine on outfeed. Featherboard
> equivalents mounted on riving knife are common. etc.
>
> Mounting featherboard horizontally on saw table at outfeed is asking
> for trouble/injury.
>

Can we please read the entire posts in a thread and make sure we
understand the context before replying? I know it's a lot to ask. The
guy said he was setting it to the width. That's not vertical.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 07 May 2014 14:01:03 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

> Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
> looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
> completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

Anytime I'm ripping I use the wheeled hold-downs and anti-kickback
devices. While it's still not the safest thing to do, I can usually let
go of the wood and the wheels will hold it down and against the fence.
Then I can turn off the saw and fix the problem. Here's a link to the
ones I use:

<http://woodworker.com/anti-kickback-hold-down-mssu-96974.asp?search=table
%20saw%20accessories&searchmode=2>

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
>> BillinGA <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a
>>> law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed
>>> injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many
>>> stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said
>>> manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative
>>> measures available and these saw companies could be held
>>> accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw
>>> I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be
>>> just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going
>>> after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were
>>> required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen
>>> this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
>>> coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a
>>> small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers
>>> don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
>>> responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was
>>> made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish
>>> I had a lot of new tools.
>>>
>>
>> I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
>> destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that
>> releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table
>> top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the
>> saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
>>
>
>
> That would be a SawStop patent infringement.

Don't see how - and maybe they're already working on it:
http://tinyurl.com/maeorhg


--
-----------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-----------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 07 May 2014 12:31:53 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

> That little project took a whole weekend and filled a dumpster to the
> top with saw dust.

That sawdust is my current problem. After my recent second bout with
pneumonia, my lung guy lectured me about sawdust exposure. I'd been
using a Dust-Bee-Gone mask and thought I was OK, but I checked and it
only claims to stop stuff down to 3 microns. So I went out yesterday and
bought a 3M respirator with a P100 rating. I haven't tried it yet, but I
doubt it'll be as comfortable as the mask.

OTOH, it looks like it'll be more comfortable than my old Willson "gas
mask" and it does give the same or better protection against finishing
fumes.

How's that saying go? "If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd have
taken better care of myself." :-)

On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:

> According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
> perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
> March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
> dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
> allowing this amendment.

Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?

On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

> SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.

No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored the
population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal and big
oil scream about damage to their profits.

And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't know
of a better system.

I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so stupid,
we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its
>> patents.
>
> No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
> capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
> and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
> Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored
> the population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal
> and big oil scream about damage to their profits.
>
> And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't
> know of a better system.
>

And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be complaining
about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just keeps
going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]
> I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so
> stupid, we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.

On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

> Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
> been this way since the beginnin of time.

The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that can
continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome gets
out of hand?

BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
Both numbers from the census.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
>> been this way since the beginnin of time.
>
> The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
> that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that
> can continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome
> gets out of hand?

Not that long Larry - at some point the rats will start eating each other.
Problem solved. We are seeing that in segments of our society today.
Darwin and human nature seem to have a way of controlling things despite our
best hopes/fears.

>
> BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
> million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
> Both numbers from the census.

I don't doubt those numbers one bit Larry. Just not sure how meaningful
they are.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/10/2014 9:32 AM, Leon wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
>>>> been this way since the beginnin of time.
>>>
>>> The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
>>> that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that
>>> can continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome
>>> gets out of hand?
>>
>> Not that long Larry - at some point the rats will start eating each other.
>> Problem solved. We are seeing that in segments of our society today.
>> Darwin and human nature seem to have a way of controlling things despite our
>> best hopes/fears.
>
>
> You mean like the earth quakes and wild fires in California? :-)
>
>
>>>
>>> BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
>>> million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
>>> Both numbers from the census.
>>
>> I don't doubt those numbers one bit Larry. Just not sure how meaningful
>> they are.
>
> I'm not sure either well maybe I am but the data is out of context, much
> like the data that was used to back up the global warming theory. Had we
> had the same methods of collecting data and same advancements in computers
> and programming 25-30 years earlier it would have been determined that we
> were in the middle of global cooling.
>
> The big issue with all of this is that the whole picture is not being
> looked at, Only the data that happens to be collected at a particular time
> is being scrutinized. Living near the coast, hurricanes are a hot spot of
> interest with the weather reporters. Because of global bla bla bla/climate
> change we saw a ramp up in named storms each year. Are we having more
> storms than 60 years ago, probably not. It used to be that we did not have
> the ability to track every storm coming off of the west African coast hence
> we had fewer storms. Today I think simple cloud cover over the African
> coast is targeted. Not to mention that if a known storm was not a threat
> to the US it was not even named unless it actually qualified as a
> hurricane. And now we are naming winter storm fronts!
>
> Suddenly, relatively speaking, too much data and too little used by those
> that are totally overwhelmed is the actual problem.
>

There is to much spin in the climate date. One of the "facts' they use
in promoting their religion is the pH of the oceans are going down
because of the increase in Carbon Dioxide. This "fact" was based on the
observation that there was a decrease in the pH of about 0.06 units, The
standards they used of make the measurements are guaranteed by the
vendor to be =/-0.05. That makes their "fact" bogus.

They talk about the climate change of 0.1 degrees. There is no
statistical method for evaluating date the would call that a change with
on any day of the year, the temperatures taken all over the earth will
vary over 100 degrees. (-40F at the winter pole to 130F in the
equatorial deserts. For a change to be significant by a simple T test
the change has to be greater the about 3 times the standard deviation of
the measurements. If the global warning people presented a data set
like this for drug approval they would be laughed out of the office.

I also like the studies on hurricanes that make the statement that the
number of hurricanes have been increasing since the 1970, The low point
in the Hurricane cycle which is based on the hurricane counts for
several hundred years.

I was really impressed when the global warmer on a ship trapped in the
summer ice in Antarctic told the people suffering in one of the coldest
winters in recent history, that they should still being prepared to face
the global warming.

Finally if you leave the Global warming religion and look at other field
you will find the long term studies do not support the global warming
data. This is one recent study
http://www.planetseed.com/relatedarticle/temperature-change-history

The biggest questionable item in the data of Climate Change is comparing
the data from a point that went from a rural area 50 years ago to an
asphalt parking lot today. It does not take a genius to realize the
Asphalt parking lot will definitely show an increase temperature when
compare to its preparking lot days. Every day we pave more parking
lots, build more houses with asphalt roofs, and other heat capturing
structures, see the temperature change and say the carbon dioxide from a
coal burning power plant is causing it.

Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> Finally if you leave the Global warming religion and look at other
> field you will find the long term studies do not support the global
> warming data.

And you'd be wrong. I don't think this is the forum for political
discussions - except as they affect the subject of the forum:
-----------
SEATTLE — Global warming is already altering forest landscapes in the
U.S. Northwest, increasing wildfire risks and threatening coastal
communities, according to a new federal scientific report released
Tuesday.

The National Climate Assessment provides a detailed look at the regional
and state-level effects of climate change. It lists key concerns for
Washington, Idaho and Oregon:

Climate change will alter Northwest forests by increasing wildfire risk
and insect and tree disease outbreaks, and by forcing long-term shifts in
forest types and species, the report says.

Those impacts are already causing widespread tree die-offs and are
certain to cause more forest die-offs by 2040.

Though wildfires are natural events in the Northwest, warmer and drier
conditions have helped boost the number and extent of wildfires in U.S.
Western forests since 1970s, and that trend is expected to continue.

Higher temperatures and outbreaks of mountain pine beetles, for example,
area increasing pine tree die-offs in drier forests.

http://tinyurl.com/k9ksgs9

See also:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/impacts-adaptation/forests.html

--------
You may deny GW, but people working in the forest are seeing it's
affects. Some species of trees will no longer grow in certain areas.
Replanting after clear-cut fails again and again. Sustainable harvests
are moving north while southern forests don't grow as they have in the
past. Etc.



--
-----------------------------------------------------
Free Software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-----------------------------------------------------

On 5/10/2014 10:17 AM, Baxter wrote:
> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>>
>> Finally if you leave the Global warming religion and look at other
>> field you will find the long term studies do not support the global
>> warming data.
>
> And you'd be wrong. I don't think this is the forum for political
> discussions - except as they affect the subject of the forum:
> -----------
> SEATTLE — Global warming is already altering forest landscapes in the
> U.S. Northwest, increasing wildfire risks and threatening coastal
> communities, according to a new federal scientific report released
> Tuesday.

Forrest fires are nothing new and there will always be a first for some
lovations. Follow the money.


>
> The National Climate Assessment provides a detailed look at the regional
> and state-level effects of climate change. It lists key concerns for
> Washington, Idaho and Oregon:

Follow the money.


>
> Climate change will alter Northwest forests by increasing wildfire risk
> and insect and tree disease outbreaks, and by forcing long-term shifts in
> forest types and species, the report says.

Maybe it will maybe it will not. Follow the money.

>
> Those impacts are already causing widespread tree die-offs and are
> certain to cause more forest die-offs by 2040.

Maybe, the prediction is so far off that those doing the predicting may
not be around to answer. follow the money.




>
> Though wildfires are natural events in the Northwest, warmer and drier
> conditions have helped boost the number and extent of wildfires in U.S.
> Western forests since 1970s, and that trend is expected to continue.

this trend has happened over and over through out the centuries followed
by global cooling.




>
> Higher temperatures and outbreaks of mountain pine beetles, for example,
> area increasing pine tree die-offs in drier forests.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/k9ksgs9
>
> See also:
> http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/impacts-adaptation/forests.html
>
> --------
> You may deny GW, but people working in the forest are seeing it's
> affects. Some species of trees will no longer grow in certain areas.
> Replanting after clear-cut fails again and again. Sustainable harvests
> are moving north while southern forests don't grow as they have in the
> past. Etc.

When you can't determine the reason for a problem you blame either
Global Warming or Bush.


Follow the money. If money were not involved with this hype there would
not be another word said about it. Global warming is extremely
profitable and will continue to be as long as we try to reverse
something that may not in face be a problem or even exist.

On 5/7/2014 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
>> I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
>> mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...
>
>
> I believe that sentence should stop there.
> Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.
>
>


Actually there is an instance when they are quite useful, If you are
plowing a grove and or not making a through cut.

I do this all the time when cutting groves for drawer bottoms.

Anything "through" should not have an out feed feather board.



And I sit here typing this while listening to the flooring guys cutting
the hickory wood treads for our stairs using a bench top Skil TS with
out benefit of miter gauge or rip fence. They have insurance.

On 5/9/2014 2:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its
>>> patents.
>>
>> No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
>> capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
>> and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
>> Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored
>> the population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal
>> and big oil scream about damage to their profits.
>>
>> And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't
>> know of a better system.
>>
>
> And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be complaining
> about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just keeps
> going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
> everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.
>
Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when there
were real problems.

On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
> which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
> class actions.

Bzzzt ...

"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"

This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.

The Feds are the ones who fucked up the patent system to start with.

... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"! ;)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/7/2014 9:38 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

> Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Witness the current texting/driving issue. Idiots feel safer when in
their padded, mobile cocoon; and when people feel safer they take more
chances, so the total level of actual safety remains relatively constant.

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"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:

>
>Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they enjoy
>success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
>see:
>

>Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
in various public offices), not the "state".

Regardless, it's all pretty silly, and nobody is talking about banning
all the power tools on the secondary market, are they?

Just look at all the houston-based law-firms advertising class action
suits on TV (asbestos, birth control pills, vaginal mesh, ad infinitum).
Quite bothersome and a good reason to have a Tivo or equivalent that allows
commercial skipping.

The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.