cost of glue

Andy wrote:
> A few recent threads have got me thinking about the cost of glues I
> use in furniture-making. Several things I've read (here and
> elsewhere) have mentioned that one of the "drawbacks" of Titebond III
> (or maybe the only drawback) is price. Someone even mentioned that
> they only use TB II or III when it's too cold for the cheaper stuff.
> So I started comparing - I liberally estimated that I might have used
> 2 oz of glue on my most recent project (a printer stand: small
> freestanding cabinet, mortise+tenon frame with ply paneled sides, pix
> to come soon). Anyway, I checked woodcraft.com for glue prices, which
> probably isn't the cheapest or most expensive source for these. Price
> of TB is US$ per 16 oz container.
> Titebond I: $4.99, $0.62 per 2 oz
> Titebond II: $6.50, $0.81 per 2 oz
> Titebond III: $7.99, $1.00 per 2 oz
> (Now moving to the "really expensive" stuff...)
> System 3 epoxy: $26.99 per 24oz kit, $2.25 per 2 oz
> Gorilla Glue: $13.99/8oz, $3.50 per 2 oz
>
> So the difference in cost between TBI and TBIII for one medium-small
> project is 38 cents. Seems to me like very cheap insurance in case
> your finished piece ever gets wet, or if you might possibly need the
> extra open time. And if you keep around a few types of glue, so you
> don't have to use the "expensive" ones when it's warm enough, is one
> of your bottles more likely to go bad or dry out? What if you forget
> to bring the TBI upstairs in the winter?
> I'm pretty careful about comparison-shopping for tools and materials,
> as I want to make sure I'm getting a good deal and don't want to waste
> money (i.e. my recent thread on double squares). But I'm guessing
> that most of us don't mind spending $20 or $50 on a router bit that we
> really need for our current project (after shopping around, of
> course). And even if we already have all the tools we need (yeah,
> right), 38 cents is less than the cost of gas to go and pick up the
> lumber, not to mention the actual price of that lumber. So why do we
> care so much about the (nearly insignificant) difference in glue
> prices? I'm not trying to criticize anyone based on the glue they
> use, just wondering "aloud" whether anyone else thinks about such
> things.

I would have been at least one who pointed out the disadvantages of TB
III (and to a lesser degree, II) as being both relative cost and open
time and also in the lower chalking temperature making it usable in
colder temps (that's an advantage in that circumstance, not a
disadvantage). Don't know that I was necessarily the only one, but at
least I know I was one...

I'll agree that for small projects, small volumes it's in the noise as
for total cost and is, obviously, even for larger volumes a lesser
cost as compared to some of the other costs. But, otoh, I figured it
worth pointing out as the actual glue joint strength is really
essentially indistinguishable between the three and exceeds the wood
breaking strength at the 65-75% level for all, so there's no advantage
gained in using a more expensive where the less expensive serves.

If one has reason to suspect a piece is likely to have water exposure,
then sure, it makes sense to use II or III. Then, otoh, if one is
concerned about longevity and repairability, one might recommend that
only hide glue or other "repairable" glues be used for future
conservators to be able to correct/repair our mistakes (hopefully some
of our work is of a level it will be around that long and considered
worthwhile enough to be worthy of the efforts, but I doubt any of mine
will be. :) ). So, it's a consideration of what's "right" for the
project.

I'm a pretty much hit-n-miss kind of woodworker -- when I'm working,
I'm usually doing a lot, when I'm not, I basically am not doing any.
So, when I'm in an "on" mode, I buy by the gallon and keep a supply of
all on hand--in that mode the price differential is more obvious than
if one is into smaller projects and buys small quantities at a time.

It's not that I don't use Type III or even the urethanes when they're
need -- I estimate I probably used nearly 5 gal of Type III on the
barn restoration and several pints of urethane in the repair/
restoration of trim and rebuilding doors, windows, etc., ... Again, a
small fraction of the overall budget (the paint bill was $8000 by
itself), but where the lesser priced made sense it showed up...

Just a case of a particular perspective...

On May 21, 3:01 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Price
> > of TB is US$ per 16 oz container.
> > Titebond I: $4.99, $0.62 per 2 oz
> > Titebond II: $6.50, $0.81 per 2 oz
> > Titebond III: $7.99, $1.00 per 2 oz
> > (Now moving to the "really expensive" stuff...)
> > System 3 epoxy: $26.99 per 24oz kit, $2.25 per 2 oz
> > Gorilla Glue: $13.99/8oz, $3.50 per 2 oz
> > I'm not trying to criticize anyone based on the glue they
> > use, just wondering "aloud" whether anyone else thinks about such
> > things.
> > Andy
>
> Thought about it for a short time. I used to use Lee Valley's brand and it
> is good glue. Then I needed waterproof for a project. I then had two
> bottles instead of one. I've since settled on TBIII for everything and
> price is not a consideration, convenience is.

You don't find the longer setup time an inconvenience then, I take it,
Edwin?

I found it changed the way I had to work slightly in comparison to
established habits in that I found I had a lot more "waiting for the
brads to hold that while the glue dries" moments w/ Type III... :)

B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:

> dpb wrote:
> >
> > You don't find the longer setup time an inconvenience then, I take it,
> > Edwin?
>
> I don't see TBIII as having much more of an overall setup time over TB.
>
> True, there's slightly more open time, but I'm clamping exactly as I
> always did.

And if you have a big glue up, the longer open time could be a positive
advantage. Depends I suppose if you are a fan of nail guns and fire
nails into everything to enable you take the clamps off and do things at
a great rate.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
www.the-brights.net

Andy wrote:

| So why do we care so much about the (nearly
| insignificant) difference in glue prices? I'm not trying to
| criticize anyone based on the glue they use, just wondering "aloud"
| whether anyone else thinks about such things.

I have GG, TB1, TB3, epoxy, and silicone caulk (is /too/ an adhesive!)
in my shop. I generally choose the adhesive that I think will perform
best and provide an appropriate open time.

The amount of open time is important to me because some of my glue-ups
involve a really unreasonable number of joints that all need to be fit
and clamped within a single "open time".

Outdoor stuff (for me, that's usually solar panels) needs weather and
water resistance to maintain structural integrity over a period of
decades - a good application for TB3.

The only time I worry about glue cost is when I dig out my wallet at
the checkout counter - and it usually only hurts for a little while...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

dpb wrote:
>
> You don't find the longer setup time an inconvenience then, I take it,
> Edwin?

I don't see TBIII as having much more of an overall setup time over TB.

True, there's slightly more open time, but I'm clamping exactly as I
always did.

Andy wrote:
> I'm not trying to criticize anyone based on the glue they
> use, just wondering "aloud" whether anyone else thinks about such
> things.
> Andy


Good perspective. Sometimes we can get penny smart and pound foolish.

dpb <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On May 21, 3:01 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Thought about it for a short time. I used to use Lee Valley's brand
>> and it is good glue. Then I needed waterproof for a project. I
>> then had two bottles instead of one. I've since settled on TBIII for
>> everything and price is not a consideration, convenience is.
>
> You don't find the longer setup time an inconvenience then, I take it,
> Edwin?
>
> I found it changed the way I had to work slightly in comparison to
> established habits in that I found I had a lot more "waiting for the
> brads to hold that while the glue dries" moments w/ Type III... :)
>

Jumping in amongst the thoughts...

When you glue something up, then get back to the project three days or
three weeks later, because life got in the way, what does it matter that
the glue took an extra 3 hours to cure?

Use what's on the shelf that works.

Patriarch

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> You don't find the longer setup time an inconvenience then, I take it,
> Edwin?
>
> I found it changed the way I had to work slightly in comparison to
> established habits in that I found I had a lot more "waiting for the
> brads to hold that while the glue dries" moments w/ Type III... :)

Not for me. Most times I'm either on to some other part or taking a break.
Once I clamp something, it is usually a very long time before the clamps
come off. I can see where it could be a factor for others though. Then
again, there are fanatics in every hobby, like the guys that think you
should sink a golf ball in only 6 or 7 stokes.

"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Price
> of TB is US$ per 16 oz container.
> Titebond I: $4.99, $0.62 per 2 oz
> Titebond II: $6.50, $0.81 per 2 oz
> Titebond III: $7.99, $1.00 per 2 oz
> (Now moving to the "really expensive" stuff...)
> System 3 epoxy: $26.99 per 24oz kit, $2.25 per 2 oz
> Gorilla Glue: $13.99/8oz, $3.50 per 2 oz

> I'm not trying to criticize anyone based on the glue they
> use, just wondering "aloud" whether anyone else thinks about such
> things.
> Andy
>

Thought about it for a short time. I used to use Lee Valley's brand and it
is good glue. Then I needed waterproof for a project. I then had two
bottles instead of one. I've since settled on TBIII for everything and
price is not a consideration, convenience is.