Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> And, just in case he's unaware of the definition a "bd-ft" is a
volume
> measure of 1" thick by 1-ft width by 1-ft length.
Though, does YOUR hardwood supplier, when calc'ing how much to charge
you for 4/4, multiply length x width by 13/16 or 7/8 !?!?! I mean, the
couple hardwood suppliers I deal with will all tell you what the bd.ft.
price is, but if it's 4/4 (i.e. real thickness of 13/16 or 7/8), they
just calc length by width.
-Chris
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
> > know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
> > whatever Y/X is ?
> >
>
> Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
Primarily in rough lumber...that's the way mills process/size lumber.
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, GerryG <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
> >it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
> >3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
> >called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
> >inch.
>
> To clarify/correct:
>
> S2S = *surfaced* two sides. Sometimes it's sanded, but usually it's planed.
>
> 4/4 hardwood S2S is normally 13/16 thick. It would be unusual for it to be as
> thin as 3/4.
...
And to hopefully clarify even a little more for the OP, the 4/4 surfaced
hardwood or graded softwood from a mill/supplier is still listed/priced
as "4/4" because that's the raw material from which it came and is
priced on a bd-ft basis rather than piece-wise or by the linear
foot...(retailers, otoh, may price on other bases, typically much more
favorable to them :) )
Construction material is sized on nominal rough mill dimensions from
historical sizes although now have standardized on nominal finished
dimensions. At one time a "2x" was about 1-5/8" thickness and even
earliear was rough-sawn at the nominal 2" thickness...
And, just in case he's unaware of the definition a "bd-ft" is a volume
measure of 1" thick by 1-ft width by 1-ft length.
Doug Miller wrote:
...
> And to muddy things up a bit... We have a lumberyard here in central Indiana
> that sells only rough-sawn lumber, which they price, *not* by the board foot,
> but by the linear foot ...
Guess it's best to take the calculator along :) ...unless, as you say,
you have enough past history to know it's where you're going no matter
the grief...
> My previous house was built in 1928; all the framing is rough-sawn *beech*
> two-bys. Floor joists all beech 2x10s, an honest 2" by 10", on 16" centers.
> Even after all those years, only a little sag and hardly any bounce in the
> floors. Ahh, the good old days...
While in VA many years ago the local school board took down a ca 1880-90
school building. Went to look at some of the material they were selling
thinking primarily of getting the kids a slate blackboard. Looked at
the timbers and started to get sorta' excited... :) Surrepetitious
check w/ the knife confirmed my suspicions--went home, got buddy, truck
and checkbook(s) and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
> The downside was in running electrical wires in the basement or the attic. The
> tool kit included a drill, a spade bit, and a bastard file to resharpen it
> every three or four holes.
Been going through renovation/restoration of the old barn (1918) here
built of virgin growth southern yellow pine--hard stuff, indeedy! :)
GerryG wrote:
> Thanks, Doug and Suane. True on the planing; don't think I've ever seen it
> really sanded, but that's what they call it. As for size, I agree that many
> yards give you a nominal 13/16. However, a few stores call it 4/4 and have
> dressed it down to 3/4 (stores, not yards). Finally, I just got 100 BF of 4/4
> S2S ash, and it measures 15/16.
<snip>
There's a difference between surfaced and dimensioned. Home Depot sells dimensioned lumber. Some
hardwood dealers surface their stock, usually for a fee. Some skip plane the boards to allow for
the person buying the stock to determine what the grain will look like.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Junkyard Engineer wrote:
>
> Wow, interesting !
>
> Then on a historic note, why the "1/4" inch has been chosen to name lumber ?
> My first guess would be the thickness of the saw blade used ?
...
More that rough sawn at mill in quarter-inch increments is sufficiently
fine to allow for whatever final thickness an end-user may wish -- of
course, w/ modern computer-controlled and band mills one could make
anything one desired, but most mills (except for veneer, of course) are
still pretty coarse...
How thick the blade is isn't really particularly important to how thick
a board is sawed off the slab other than it has to be stiff enough to
not flex.
Junkyard Engineer wrote:
> Wow, interesting !
>
> Then on a historic note, why the "1/4" inch has been chosen to name lumber ?
> My first guess would be the thickness of the saw blade used ?
Wood is cut green at the mill and it shrinks when it dries. The sawyers have to
make an educated guess when they saw the log for the required yield. I imagine
1/4" is as close as they care to shoot for.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
TheNewGuy wrote:
>
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> >
> > And, just in case he's unaware of the definition a "bd-ft" is a
> volume
> > measure of 1" thick by 1-ft width by 1-ft length.
>
> Though, does YOUR hardwood supplier, when calc'ing how much to charge
> you for 4/4, multiply length x width by 13/16 or 7/8 !?!?! I mean, the
> couple hardwood suppliers I deal with will all tell you what the bd.ft.
> price is, but if it's 4/4 (i.e. real thickness of 13/16 or 7/8), they
> just calc length by width.
Don't know of <any> who do adjust for surfacing (other than, perhaps
some of the mail order places who deal in specialty project pieces and
I'm not even sure of that for other than thin pieces which aren't
normally priced by bd-ft anyway). As I noted previously, it's based on
the raw stock size before any surfacing. Any place that will base the
bd-ft value on surfaced thickness will adjust the price/bd-ft to reflect
the original stock as they will certainly have that as the cost basis in
buying the material.
And in case I misinterpreted your meaning above, actually, they
calculate by thickness, just that in the case of 4/4 stock it's "1" so
it numerically is the same. Buy some 6/4 stock and see if they "ignore"
it then... :)
And for point three, just in case, the point was to <define> a bd-ft to
OP who I thought as he noted he was new to buying hardwoods might just
not actually know...
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
> >> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
> >
> >Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
> >
> >Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
>
> Waaaay under.... try thirty-seven CENTS a bf.
...
What you have to remember is that what we bought was used construction
material...wasn't our fault it happened to be walnut! :)
Thanks, Doug and Suane. True on the planing; don't think I've ever seen it
really sanded, but that's what they call it. As for size, I agree that many
yards give you a nominal 13/16. However, a few stores call it 4/4 and have
dressed it down to 3/4 (stores, not yards). Finally, I just got 100 BF of 4/4
S2S ash, and it measures 15/16.
So what can I say? I live in the desert, and it's now raining yet again:-)
Hopefully, with your additions, he'll have some idea what he might find. Oh
yeah, we forgot S3S which has one straight and square edge, and (though the
term isn't often used) S4S which is what Home Depot sells..
GerryG
Kanab, Utah
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:24:42 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, GerryG <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
>> >it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
>> >3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
>> >called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
>> >inch.
>>
>> To clarify/correct:
>>
>> S2S = *surfaced* two sides. Sometimes it's sanded, but usually it's planed.
>>
>> 4/4 hardwood S2S is normally 13/16 thick. It would be unusual for it to be as
>> thin as 3/4.
>...
>
>And to hopefully clarify even a little more for the OP, the 4/4 surfaced
>hardwood or graded softwood from a mill/supplier is still listed/priced
>as "4/4" because that's the raw material from which it came and is
>priced on a bd-ft basis rather than piece-wise or by the linear
>foot...(retailers, otoh, may price on other bases, typically much more
>favorable to them :) )
>
>Construction material is sized on nominal rough mill dimensions from
>historical sizes although now have standardized on nominal finished
>dimensions. At one time a "2x" was about 1-5/8" thickness and even
>earliear was rough-sawn at the nominal 2" thickness...
>
>And, just in case he's unaware of the definition a "bd-ft" is a volume
>measure of 1" thick by 1-ft width by 1-ft length.
Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
inch.
GerryG
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:01:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
>> know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
>> whatever Y/X is ?
>>
>
>Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
>
"Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
> know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
> whatever Y/X is ?
>
Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:design-E1B07E.23082026022005
@news.bellglobal.com:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
>> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
>
> Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
>
> Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
> I'll go out on a limb here, but you suck!
>
> r
>
Rob, re do the math, and see just how badly...
$1500, divided by 4000 =
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...:
Hello Doug,
I'm in Bloomington. Whereabouts would that lumberyard be? I have seen one
off of 67 south of Indy.
-Kevin
> And to muddy things up a bit... We have a lumberyard here in central
Indiana
> that sells only rough-sawn lumber, which they price, *not* by the board
foot,
> but by the linear foot (so much per linear foot for 4/4 x 5 maple, a bit
more
> per foot for 4/4 x 6, a bit less for 4/4 x 4, etc). I wish they wouldn't
do
> that. It drives me up the wall. OTOH, the prices are great and so is the
wood,
> so I guess there are compensations.
In article <[email protected]>,
Patriarch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:design-E1B07E.23082026022005
> @news.bellglobal.com:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
> >> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
> >
> > Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
> >
> > Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
> > I'll go out on a limb here, but you suck!
> >
> > r
> >
>
> Rob, re do the math, and see just how badly...
>
> $1500, divided by 4000 =
Holy snapping arseholes, Batman!!! He should be incarcerated!!!
I need a new brain.
In article <[email protected]>,
Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
I'll go out on a limb here, but you suck!
r
In article <[email protected]>, "Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...:
>
>Hello Doug,
>
>I'm in Bloomington. Whereabouts would that lumberyard be? I have seen one
>off of 67 south of Indy.
That'd be Hollingsworth Lumber in Russiaville (pronounced roosh-uh-vill,
BTW), about 5 miles or so SW of Kokomo. The board-foot prices for any given
species all work out to be the same within a few pennies, regardless of width,
so it's not like they're trying to cheat anybody. It's just awkward.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
mac, as I mentioned, it will vary. I just bought S2S ash from a lumberyard,
and it measures 15/16". From another yard, it was 13/16. Further, S2S says
nothing about the width, and this ash varies all over. You're talking about
dimensioned lumber.
GerryG
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:45:22 -0800, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:47:01 GMT, GerryG <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
>>it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
>>3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
>>called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
>>inch.
>>
>>GerryG
>>
>Nah.. they call it 1 by...
>if you buy S2S 1 x 4 it's like 3/4" x 3 3/4"...
>
>
>
>mac
>
>Please remove splinters before emailing
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:47:01 GMT, GerryG <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
>it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
>3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
>called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
>inch.
>
>GerryG
>
Nah.. they call it 1 by...
if you buy S2S 1 x 4 it's like 3/4" x 3 3/4"...
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:01:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
>> know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
>> whatever Y/X is ?
>>
>
>Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
>
hmm... a 16/4 x 8/4 two by four..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:01:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
>> know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
>> whatever Y/X is ?
>>
>
>Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
>
Keep in mind that these measurements are nominal, not actual. Just
like a 2x4 isn't actually 2 inches thick or 4 inches wide, 8/4 lumber
is not really 2" thick if it has been dressed to a semi-usable state.
You typically lose 1/4 inch in thickness to the planer. Thus 4/4
lumber that has been surfaced is really 3/4" thick (just like your
typical 1x construction lumber).
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 23:31:31 -0600, Patriarch wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:design-E1B07E.23082026022005
> @news.bellglobal.com:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
>>> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
>>
>> Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
>>
>> Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
>> I'll go out on a limb here, but you suck!
>
> Rob, re do the math, and see just how badly...
>
> $1500, divided by 4000 =
Rob was thinking interms of Canuckistani loonies, before the US dollar
turned into pesos.
--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Duane Bozarth <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> and we bought about 4000 bd-ft of walnut beams and
>> studs from 2xX to 5x10-20-ft lumber for $1500!
>
>Heyy...waittasec.. I know I'm new here..but THAT was a drive-by, right?
>
>Under 3 bucks a bd-ft for walnut?
Waaaay under.... try thirty-seven CENTS a bf.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, GerryG <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, but we try to be a little more confusing. If I buy rough 4/4 hardwood,
>it's about an inch thick. The same item, S2S (sanded two sides) can be from
>3/4 inch to nearly 7/8 thick, depending on where you get it, but it's still
>called 4/4 lumber at yards, while places like Home Depot probably say 3/4
>inch.
To clarify/correct:
S2S = *surfaced* two sides. Sometimes it's sanded, but usually it's planed.
4/4 hardwood S2S is normally 13/16 thick. It would be unusual for it to be as
thin as 3/4.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>And to hopefully clarify even a little more for the OP, the 4/4 surfaced
>hardwood or graded softwood from a mill/supplier is still listed/priced
>as "4/4" because that's the raw material from which it came and is
>priced on a bd-ft basis rather than piece-wise or by the linear
>foot...(retailers, otoh, may price on other bases, typically much more
>favorable to them :) )
And to muddy things up a bit... We have a lumberyard here in central Indiana
that sells only rough-sawn lumber, which they price, *not* by the board foot,
but by the linear foot (so much per linear foot for 4/4 x 5 maple, a bit more
per foot for 4/4 x 6, a bit less for 4/4 x 4, etc). I wish they wouldn't do
that. It drives me up the wall. OTOH, the prices are great and so is the wood,
so I guess there are compensations.
>Construction material is sized on nominal rough mill dimensions from
>historical sizes although now have standardized on nominal finished
>dimensions. At one time a "2x" was about 1-5/8" thickness and even
>earliear was rough-sawn at the nominal 2" thickness...
My previous house was built in 1928; all the framing is rough-sawn *beech*
two-bys. Floor joists all beech 2x10s, an honest 2" by 10", on 16" centers.
Even after all those years, only a little sag and hardly any bounce in the
floors. Ahh, the good old days...
The downside was in running electrical wires in the basement or the attic. The
tool kit included a drill, a spade bit, and a bastard file to resharpen it
every three or four holes.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Wow, interesting !
Then on a historic note, why the "1/4" inch has been chosen to name lumber ?
My first guess would be the thickness of the saw blade used ?
"Dave Hall" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:01:39 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Junkyard Engineer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> I've read and seen timber dimensions that is a little puzzling to me. I
>>> know what a 1x2 is or a 2x4 or a 4x4 but what is a 5/4, 4/4, 8/4 or
>>> whatever Y/X is ?
>>>
>>
>>Woodies use all dimensions in quarters, 1/4, 2/4, etc. 8/4 = 2"
>>
> Keep in mind that these measurements are nominal, not actual. Just
> like a 2x4 isn't actually 2 inches thick or 4 inches wide, 8/4 lumber
> is not really 2" thick if it has been dressed to a semi-usable state.
> You typically lose 1/4 inch in thickness to the planer. Thus 4/4
> lumber that has been surfaced is really 3/4" thick (just like your
> typical 1x construction lumber).