Hey
I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
only mentally).
When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
(this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
the sac and burst one of his testicles.
Obviously, this has had an affect on my sawing technique.
When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and
although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those
skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now I can only
sympathize with Mr. Newton)
So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
way.
So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
tables height!
So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
I think that I was also pushing the wood toward the fence at the height
of the blade and behind the blade.
Since then I have lowered my blade and been aware of where I am putting
pressure on the wood in relation to the blade so I have not had any
more kickbacks.
However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of
a man!!
FYI I bought the saw off of craigslist and the guy told me 8 times that
it wasn't stolen. But then he also tried to sell me a 18v dewalt and a
router out of his trunk. He also wouldn't meet me in the orange borg
parking lot (He says they like him and everything, but there are some
legal issues.)
He claims he only used the saw twice, but one of the bolt holes
connecting it to the stand is broken.
Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw
that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)
Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey
>
> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
> only mentally).
>
> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
Kick-back is operator error.
I've had many a board warp as I ripped it. In the worst cases, as I witness
the board warping or closing up after it leaves the blade, I realize I will
have to apply more downforce to insure it won't lift. I then, using more
downforce, insure it stays next to the fence, down on the table and shove it
through. I've even seen old-timers shove a 16'd nail behind the cut to
prevent the board from closing. (This action might scare the week of
constitution but it works)
If I need to rip more of the same stock, knowing it will warp/twist I take
it to the bandsaw and rip it close to size and touch it up in the tablesaw
or jointer.
Dave
[email protected] wrote:
> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
It could happen.
> So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
> I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
> I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
> me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
> about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
> way.
I don't understand this. Crosscutting long stock should never pose a
safety hazard. Supporting the workpiece can be a challenge, but what's
the safety issue?
> So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
> side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
> trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
> across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
> It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
> tables height!
What in the lord's name are you doing, using the rip fence as a guide
when crosscutting?
If you're ripping and getting that kind of kickback, make sure the
blade and the fence are both parallel to the miter gage slts (and each
other). If necessary, toe the end of the miter fence out, away from the
blade, by 1/32". Use the guard, which presumably has antikickback
pawls. You should never, ever get that kind of kickback this way.
With long boards, you may need to jam a wedge into the kerf to keep it
from closing.
> So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
A high blade should never, ever cause that kind of kickback. In some
ways, a high blade is safer than a low one.
> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
> fence on the right.
You're right to never stand in the line of fire.
> Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw
> that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)
Woodworking is spiritual. You can't do anything on a stolen saw.
> Hopefully not of English! <g>
> [This coming from one who just sent an email to a friend asking
> whether to use very course[sic] sandpaper for a certain job<g>
No, I am actually a science teacher, but I am from the spell check
generation. If a little red line doesn't show up under my words I
assume they are OK. But I do admit. I may do a preview next time
instead of post.
>
>
> >However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
> >fence on the right.
> Did you state this correctly? You mean at the outfeed side???
No, I mean the left side of the feeder side. Standing so far away from
the fence as to not be within missle range.
>
> > What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
> >ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick?
>
> _The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
Thank you, will do
They also have table saw movies for rent on netflix!
>
> What was binding? You weren't usuing the fence were you? THAT
> can cause binding and kickback. But if you remove the fence, I
> don't see how you'd get binding and kickback on a crosscut of somthing 3.5"
> wide.
No I wasn't using the fence,but in a more brilliant move, I didn't know
which side kicked back, so I had a hand on each side of the blade with
my crotch well to the side.
I think that happened is that it got almost to the end of the cut and
then it binded and kind of jumped back. Not really kickback but in my
mind it has bye bye teste written all over it.
So the point is that I probably over reacted but it was not the best
intro. I am going to make a crosscut sled this weekend.
B A R R Y wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> >
> > Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you
> > to...BUY A CUP!
> >
>
>
> Why stop there?
>
> I settle for nothing less than full, NHL regulation goalie gear! Who
> needs a GRRRRRipper when you've got a blocker?
>
> I'm not the only one, you'll see goalie gear hanging in the background
> of Peter Gedry's finishing articles, as well.
I would recommend a codpiece of ballistic polymer lined with
Kevlar-reinforced steel mesh. You could paint really cool flames or
lightning bolts on it.
> > old-timers shove a 16'd nail behind the cut to
> >prevent the board from closing. (This action might scare the week of
> >constitution but it works)
>
> A wooden wedge performs the same function, but is a whole lot safer.
I have a gizmo for that. small scrap of wood, set the saw height to
kerf halfway through, then make a rip cut that produces a thin piece
that just fits the kerf. glue them together thus, round over the edges
and taper the "blade" a bit for easy inserting.
it lives in the open left end of the beisemeyer tube where I can reach
it but it won't get lost.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote:
> >B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lh7Tg.6440$GR.1814
> >@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
> >
> >>
> >> Why stop there?
> >>
> >> I settle for nothing less than full, NHL regulation goalie gear! Who
> >> needs a GRRRRRipper when you've got a blocker?
> >>
> >> I'm not the only one, you'll see goalie gear hanging in the background
> >> of Peter Gedry's finishing articles, as well.
> >
> >2x4 in the chest, slap shot from 20 feet, what's the difference? (You
> >almost always see the slap shot coming.)
>
> Yep. Moving about the same speed, but the 2x4 is coming from a whole lot
> closer. Takes 10 to 15 milliseconds to get there.
Also, when the 2x4 hits you "in the chest," it hits you in the balls
instead.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> _The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
> >>
> >
> >I purchased this book based on the recommendations I read here.
> >
> >I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I learned
> >from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the
> >US.
> >
> >I can't really say I learned much more than that.
>
> That causes me to wonder if *you* actually read it... <g>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
As an English person I can assure you that only the English drink tea -
or at least some of us who still know how to brew it. If you're
throwing tea can you please miss my Ceylon leaves out of it please?
Thanks awfully. Pip pip!
By the way, we're going to invade soon and take back our rightful
possessions in various parts of the US. Otherwise please feel free to
look after yourselves in Iraq and Afghanistan for that matter.
Anyway, my recommendation is to stick with a band saw unless it really
cannot cope anymore.
[email protected] wrote:
> Hey
>
> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
> only mentally).
>
> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
>
> Obviously, this has had an affect on my sawing technique.
>
> When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and
> although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those
> skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now I can only
> sympathize with Mr. Newton)
>
> So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
> I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
> I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
> me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
> about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
> way.
>
> So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
> side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
> trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
> across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
> It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
> tables height!
>
> So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
> I think that I was also pushing the wood toward the fence at the height
> of the blade and behind the blade.
>
> Since then I have lowered my blade and been aware of where I am putting
> pressure on the wood in relation to the blade so I have not had any
> more kickbacks.
>
> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
> fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
> ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of
> a man!!
>
> FYI I bought the saw off of craigslist and the guy told me 8 times that
> it wasn't stolen. But then he also tried to sell me a 18v dewalt and a
> router out of his trunk. He also wouldn't meet me in the orange borg
> parking lot (He says they like him and everything, but there are some
> legal issues.)
>
> He claims he only used the saw twice, but one of the bolt holes
> connecting it to the stand is broken.
>
> Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw
> that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)
>
> Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
> surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
> have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
Have you considered just using a bandsaw? With the correct blades this
excellent machine will do 90% of what a table saw can do, including rip
cutting. It's safer - the blade runs down and pins the workpiece to the
table - and the kerf is narrow so little material is lost. Also you can
do scroll cutting, dovetails and other joints - it's so versatile I
don't know what I'd do without mine. Less room than a tablesaw due to
upright design.
Your tablesaw doesn't want to kill you, it's an inanimate object. A
bandsaw finds it difficult to kill you.
[email protected] wrote:
> Hey
>
> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
> only mentally).
>
> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
> fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
> ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of
> a man!!
>
(disclaimer:I am going to describe some dangerous procedures, dont do
them unelss you fully understand them and are willing to accept
complete responsibility of your actions.)
yes, you should be very afraid of any power tool. the time you become
fearless of the destructive power of any power tool, i'tll rise up and
bite you.
and yes, I still have all ten fingers.
I worked at a cabinetry place, and have seen people get really nasty
injuries due to kick backs (ripping a 1/2"x1/2"x8' in half,
lengthwise!) I quit that job before i was there a year.
But I alsmost conquered my fear, I'll tell you how.
take that table saw, raise the blade real high, get a 2x12 about five
feet long and rip a 2inch peice out of it. about the easiest rip cut to
do, plenty of room for your hands, and you should be at least 3 ft away
from the whirling blade of death. feel free to use gloves, as you wont
complete the ripping cut.
halfway thru the cut, try to stall the saw.
if you are lucky, you'll blow the breaker and not a thermal overload.
turn off the saw and go in the house and relax.
this gives you a good idea of how easy a big heavy piece of wood can
stop the saw. I believe once you realize that you need to have the
cutting power match the job, the safer things get.
also, when doing that ripping/stall procedure, you'll find some flaws
that may not be apparent. fence crooked? table too small? guards not
proper?, shop floor uneven? stand wobbles? stand too light? dull blade?
table sticky? blade cuts in a curve? shop too small?
look up info on featherboards. install a smaller diameter blade. fix
any flaws up above and any that seem apparent. even the tiniest amount
of the above flaws can cripple the best of power tools.
get the flaws straightened out, and dont attempt very dificult cuts
(like ripping 1/2"x1/2") and the fear to dwindle to an acceptable level.
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:gIRSg.10644$KK.5422@trnddc08...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with
>> the fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel
>> comfortable ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I
>> feel like less of a man!!
>
> Stand at the right side or move the fence to the left side. Either
> way, you won't have to reach over the blade.
>
Being new to the tablesaw, I always wonder about this. I haev read that you
should stand to the left side of the table, but when ripping that means I am
reaching over the blade to push the stock through. Is this incorrect?
"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> _The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
>
I purchased this book based on the recommendations I read here.
I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I learned
from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the
US.
I can't really say I learned much more than that.
Locutus wrote:
> Being new to the tablesaw, I always wonder about this. I haev read that you
> should stand to the left side of the table, but when ripping that means I am
> reaching over the blade to push the stock through. Is this incorrect?
No, that's correct. It's easier to push into the fence and past the blade.
If you stand on the right of the fence, then you need to pull the piece
into the fence while pushing it past the blade...which is more awkward.
Typically with kickback the piece rises up at the back, then the top
teeth of the saw dig in to the bottom of the workpiece and fling it. It
generally goes more or less . There is relatively little chance of your
arm being hit.
Chris
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> _The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
>>>
>>
>>I purchased this book based on the recommendations I read here.
>>
>>I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I
>>learned
>>from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the
>>US.
>>
>>I can't really say I learned much more than that.
>
> That causes me to wonder if *you* actually read it... <g>
>
I read it, cover to cover. I just didn't find it all that educational,
pretty much just reiterated everything I already knew. And I don't think I
know that much about tablesaws.
You didn't find the constant mention of how much better European saws are at
least a little bit distracting? If euro saws are great, fine, I live in the
US, it doesn't help me to know what I am missing out on. It seems this book
is marketed to a US/Canadian market, so I don't understand why so much real
estate was devoted to euro saws.
Locutus <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I learned
> from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the
> US.
>
> I can't really say I learned much more than that.
Not having used a US TS I'm not sure of that. But my 40+ year old UK TS
has its blade guard on its riving knife and a short rip fence. When I
need to use it without the riving knife the lack of a guard makes me
treat it with extra respect. I have never had a kickback with it even
though when I started using it I had no training and was not very
careful. This is most likly due to its design.
I will be getting another TS and shudder to think of not having a decent
riving knife on it .
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
On 28 Sep 2006 08:06:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Hey
>
>I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
>table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
>However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
>only mentally).
>
>When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
>kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
>(this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
>that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
>the sac and burst one of his testicles.
>
>Obviously, this has had an affect on my sawing technique.
>
>When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and
>although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those
>skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now I can only
>sympathize with Mr. Newton)
>
>So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
>I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
>I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
>me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
>about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
>way.
>
>So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
>side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
>trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
>across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
>It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
>tables height!
>
>So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
>I think that I was also pushing the wood toward the fence at the height
>of the blade and behind the blade.
>
>Since then I have lowered my blade and been aware of where I am putting
>pressure on the wood in relation to the blade so I have not had any
>more kickbacks.
>
>However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
>fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
>ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of
>a man!!
>
>FYI I bought the saw off of craigslist and the guy told me 8 times that
>it wasn't stolen. But then he also tried to sell me a 18v dewalt and a
>router out of his trunk. He also wouldn't meet me in the orange borg
>parking lot (He says they like him and everything, but there are some
>legal issues.)
>
>He claims he only used the saw twice, but one of the bolt holes
>connecting it to the stand is broken.
>
>Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw
>that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)
>
>Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
>surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
>have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
The T/S does not *scare* me in the least. I have a world of respect
for the machine, but fear does not come into play.
Like driving a car or handling a firearm, fear is a very bad thing and
could lead to an accident.
Since all the SawStop debates I have paid more attention to what I
actually do on the T/S. Before, I never really studied my actions or
habits. I find that I comply to many safety guidelines unconsciously
-w/o thinking about it. I also find that my hands are rarely in a
position to be injured. Again, in fairness, I don't want to state that
it would be impossible, but very unlikely.
The bottom line is, IMO, you need to be comfortable on the equipment.
"Markem" <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:31:53 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
> <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>
>>Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you
>>to...BUY A CUP!
>
> I'd call it a tie
>
> Mark
> (sixoneeight) = 618
Even though I've seen lots of old pictures of woodworkers wearing ties, I
can't see how wearing one is going to protect you from a kickback. (The
pictures of the guys operating lathes are the worst ones!)
- Owen -
:)
On 28 Sep 2006 08:06:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
>surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
>have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
Well after all the good advice about avoiding kickback, your answer
might be a jockstrap and a cup. If that fear is overriding your
attention.
Yes it is a bit of a smart ass answer but hopefully a bit amusing.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
One more time . . .
If you understand the physics it's easier to know
what to do and not to do. It's those nasty rear
teeth, rising up out of the table saw top, that
initiate "kickbacks". You want to keep the wood
behind the front cutting teeth away from
the top rear quarter "lurking" teeth.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KickBack1.html
Cross cutting an 8 foot 2x4 on a table saw is not a great
idea - a chop saw, miter saw, sliding miter saw or compound
sliding miter saw is made to do that job. Cross cutting
on a table saw with the end against the fence is a no-no.
charlie b
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lh7Tg.6440$GR.1814
@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
>
> Why stop there?
>
> I settle for nothing less than full, NHL regulation goalie gear! Who
> needs a GRRRRRipper when you've got a blocker?
>
> I'm not the only one, you'll see goalie gear hanging in the background
> of Peter Gedry's finishing articles, as well.
2x4 in the chest, slap shot from 20 feet, what's the difference? (You
almost always see the slap shot coming.)
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> Yep. Moving about the same speed, but the 2x4 is coming from a whole
>> lot closer. Takes 10 to 15 milliseconds to get there.
>>
>
> All that gear lets you just shake it off. <G>
>
> FWIW, I was a defenseman when I played, not a goalie. More than once,
> I turned around from tying up an opposing player (puckdropper [might]
> call it "interference", but a man's gotta' do to do what he's gotta'
> do... <G>), and had about 10-15 milliseconds to get out of the way. I
> can't get anywhere in that amount of time. So... I got hit so hard
> one night, it stuck in my mind enough where years later I'd duck
> lightweight plastic balls used in indoor roller hockey. <G>
>
> Then again, I've seen some on-ice officials take it bad enough that
> they probably would have traded it for a kickback! =8^0
I've done that too on defense. I found you can't just block the better
players, you gotta shove them out of the way.
For both sawing and goaltending, if you have a red light (ambulance) come
on it's a bad thing.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"stanley_clifton" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> Your tablesaw doesn't want to kill you, it's an inanimate object. A
> bandsaw finds it difficult to kill you.
>
>
You're depersonifying a table saw while personifying a band saw?
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:08:05 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Markem" <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:31:53 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
>> <tom(nospam)@ohiobrush.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you
>>>to...BUY A CUP!
>>
>> I'd call it a tie
>>
>> Mark
>> (sixoneeight) = 618
>
>Even though I've seen lots of old pictures of woodworkers wearing ties, I
>can't see how wearing one is going to protect you from a kickback. (The
>pictures of the guys operating lathes are the worst ones!)
>
> - Owen -
>
>:)
>
:P
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
In article <[email protected]>, Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote:
>B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in news:Lh7Tg.6440$GR.1814
>@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
>
>>
>> Why stop there?
>>
>> I settle for nothing less than full, NHL regulation goalie gear! Who
>> needs a GRRRRRipper when you've got a blocker?
>>
>> I'm not the only one, you'll see goalie gear hanging in the background
>> of Peter Gedry's finishing articles, as well.
>
>2x4 in the chest, slap shot from 20 feet, what's the difference? (You
>almost always see the slap shot coming.)
Yep. Moving about the same speed, but the 2x4 is coming from a whole lot
closer. Takes 10 to 15 milliseconds to get there.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <[email protected]>, "stanley_clifton" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>As an English person I can assure you that only the English drink tea -
Quite the contrary. Many Americans, this one included, drink tea -- and I
quite surprised a Polish friend a year or two ago: he and his wife were at our
house for Sunday brunch, and -- without thinking -- I offered him coffee, as
is the custom here in the States. He declined, and asked if we had any tea. I
could tell he was not expecting an affirmative answer, and was more than a
little surprised to receive one.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey
>
> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
> only mentally).
>
> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
>
> Obviously, this has had an affect on my sawing technique.
>
> When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and
> although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those
> skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now I can only
> sympathize with Mr. Newton)
>
> So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
> I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
> I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
> me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
> about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
> way.
>
> So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
> side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
> trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
> across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
> It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
> tables height!
>
> So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
> I think that I was also pushing the wood toward the fence at the height
> of the blade and behind the blade.
>
> Since then I have lowered my blade and been aware of where I am putting
> pressure on the wood in relation to the blade so I have not had any
> more kickbacks.
>
> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
> fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
> ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of
> a man!!
>
> FYI I bought the saw off of craigslist and the guy told me 8 times that
> it wasn't stolen. But then he also tried to sell me a 18v dewalt and a
> router out of his trunk. He also wouldn't meet me in the orange borg
> parking lot (He says they like him and everything, but there are some
> legal issues.)
>
> He claims he only used the saw twice, but one of the bolt holes
> connecting it to the stand is broken.
>
> Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw
> that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)
>
> Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
> surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
> have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you
to...BUY A CUP!
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Cross cutting an 8 foot 2x4 on a table saw is not a great
>idea - a chop saw, miter saw, sliding miter saw or compound
>sliding miter saw is made to do that job.
Or a radial arm saw... <g>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you
> to...BUY A CUP!
>
Why stop there?
I settle for nothing less than full, NHL regulation goalie gear! Who
needs a GRRRRRipper when you've got a blocker?
I'm not the only one, you'll see goalie gear hanging in the background
of Peter Gedry's finishing articles, as well.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Lee Gordon wrote:
> > <<I didn't know
> > which side kicked back, so I had a hand on each side of the blade >>
> >
> > That's most likely what caused the kickback.
>
> I'd like my $5 pool entry to reflect Lee's answer as the winner.
>
> 10-1, the hand on the side where the fence wasn't pushed the kerf
> closed, launching the board.
>
Hint!
Use the miter gauge for narrow stock, NOT the fence!
NEVER constrain both sides of a piece being cut!
Don't be afraid enough not to use the saw, but NEVER lose respect for it
and the bad things it can do IN A HURRY!
RTFM, and maybe another or two books about table saws.
Be safe!
Tex
Having read your dissertation, two things come to mind. First, crosscutting
8-foot 2X4s seems a rather odd introduction to the table saw and although
you never specifically stated it, I assume you know that when you are
crosscutting you should NEVER use the fence. BTW, that story about the guy
who busted his own balls is almost certainly not apocryphal. The landscape
is littered with candidates for the Vienna Boys Choir who got that way due
to their own misuse of their power tools.
Second, you should invest 60-70 bucks in a Grrr-ripper.
http://www.microjig.com/ It won't be of much use for crosscutting 2-bys
but it can make you feel a hell of a lot safer when performing ripping
operations on the table saw.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
Lee Gordon wrote:
> <<I didn't know
> which side kicked back, so I had a hand on each side of the blade >>
>
> That's most likely what caused the kickback.
I'd like my $5 pool entry to reflect Lee's answer as the winner.
10-1, the hand on the side where the fence wasn't pushed the kerf
closed, launching the board.
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hey
>
> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
> only mentally).
>
> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
Knock on stock, but I've been ripping and crosscutting on a 10 inch
Sears for 20 years, and I've never experienced kickback. Not once.
With my Stihl chainsaw, yes (but that's another story, not involving
reproductive gear).
[email protected] wrote:
: So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing
: I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide
: I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for
: me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot
: about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow
: way.
What was binding? You weren't usuing the fence were you? THAT
can cause binding and kickback. But if you remove the fence, I
don't see how you'd get binding and kickback on a crosscut of somthing 3.5"
wide.
: So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left
: side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some
: trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot
: across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side.
: It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the
: tables height!
: So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.
What research was this? Forrest, which manufacturers one of the best
TS blade lines available, recommends running the blade at full height
to reduce kickback. Think about what direction the blade is pushing the
wood with the blade all the way up, vs. low down. Also, keeping the blade
all the way up places it closer to the splitter, which is a good thing.
The main advantage of keeping the blade low is you won't completely
cut your hand off if it runs into the blade. But since you should be using
a good guard, which keeps you from doing that, this isn't relevant.
You should also be using a splitter, which is the main prenetative device
for kickback. The wood can't twist into the blade if there's a good
splitter in use.
: However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
: fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
: ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick?
Get a good guard and splitter.
Use board buddies or something similar.
- Andy Barss
In article <[email protected]>, "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>> _The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
>>
>
>I purchased this book based on the recommendations I read here.
>
>I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I learned
>from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the
>US.
>
>I can't really say I learned much more than that.
That causes me to wonder if *you* actually read it... <g>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
[email protected] wrote:
> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with
> the fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel
> comfortable ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I
> feel like less of a man!!
Stand at the right side or move the fence to the left side. Either
way, you won't have to reach over the blade.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On 28 Sep 2006 08:06:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Hey
>
>I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
>table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
>However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
>only mentally).
<<< Snip >>>
If you contact Delta, you can either download the manual if it is
availible, or they will mail you one. In either case, the manual
contains all the safety directions you need to operate the saw
properly.
And for what it's worth, I've experienced kickback two or three times-
always because I wasn't following the rules, but none of those
resulted in any real injury. While it can be very dangerous, it is
more often than not just a bit of excitement. Same rule for saws as
for horses- if one kicks, get right back on it.
[email protected] wrote:
>When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and
>although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those
^^^^^^^^^^
>skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now
Hopefully not of English! <g>
[This coming from one who just sent an email to a friend asking
whether to use very course[sic] sandpaper for a certain job<g>]
>However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the
>fence on the right.
Did you state this correctly? You mean at the outfeed side???
> What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable
>ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick?
_The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
In article <[email protected]>,
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>
>Cross cutting an 8 foot 2x4 on a table saw is not a great
>idea - a chop saw, miter saw, sliding miter saw or compound
>sliding miter saw is made to do that job. Cross cutting
>on a table saw with the end against the fence is a no-no.
>
Don't forget a Disston.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - lwasserm(a)charm(.)net
Locutus wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:gIRSg.10644$KK.5422@trnddc08...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with
>>> the fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel
>>> comfortable ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I
>>> feel like less of a man!!
>>
>> Stand at the right side or move the fence to the left side. Either
>> way, you won't have to reach over the blade.
>>
>
> Being new to the tablesaw, I always wonder about this. I haev read
> that you should stand to the left side of the table, but when
> ripping that means I am reaching over the blade to push the stock
> through. Is this incorrect?
You need to be where you can push the stock, and keep out of the way
of the saw blade and any kickback. If one pushes with the right hand,
the most comfortable place is usually to the left of the blade but
one's hand or arm should never be above the blade. If one pushes with
a fixture riding on the fence, it is easy enough to stand to the
right. Same is true if the stock is wide and you push with your hand.
If the stock is narrow and you are to the left and you can't push the
end through keeping your arm/hand from being above the blade use a
good push stick.
Main thing is to cut the wood and not get hurt.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
In article <[email protected]>, "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Kick-back is operator error.
[...]
>I've even seen old-timers shove a 16'd nail behind the cut to
>prevent the board from closing. (This action might scare the week of
>constitution but it works)
A wooden wedge performs the same function, but is a whole lot safer.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hey
>>
>> I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my
>> table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free.
>> However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily
>> only mentally).
>>
>> When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about
>> kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor
>> (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board
>> that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in
>> the sac and burst one of his testicles.
>
>
> Kick-back is operator error.
> I've had many a board warp as I ripped it. In the worst cases, as I
> witness the board warping or closing up after it leaves the blade, I
> realize I will have to apply more downforce to insure it won't lift. I
> then, using more downforce, insure it stays next to the fence, down on the
> table and shove it through. I've even seen old-timers shove a 16'd nail
> behind the cut to prevent the board from closing. (This action might scare
> the week of constitution but it works)
>
> If I need to rip more of the same stock, knowing it will warp/twist I take
> it to the bandsaw and rip it close to size and touch it up in the tablesaw
> or jointer.
>
> Dave
Many moons ago when starting work in a saw mill we bought the timber in the
round mostly ash and 4ins thick, it took four men to lift, two to push
through the saw and two to pull, my job as a lad was to hammer steel wedges
in the cut as near to the riving knife as possible,if this wasnt done the
timber would close on the blade, and create a hot spot, the blade then
distorted and cause an almighty wobble, my next job was to dive for the off
switch.I dont think this happens with modern tipped blades or at least i
hope not.
Bill.1
>
>
>
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> Yep. Moving about the same speed, but the 2x4 is coming from a whole lot
> closer. Takes 10 to 15 milliseconds to get there.
>
All that gear lets you just shake it off. <G>
FWIW, I was a defenseman when I played, not a goalie. More than once, I
turned around from tying up an opposing player (puckdropper [might] call
it "interference", but a man's gotta' do to do what he's gotta' do...
<G>), and had about 10-15 milliseconds to get out of the way. I can't
get anywhere in that amount of time. So... I got hit so hard one
night, it stuck in my mind enough where years later I'd duck lightweight
plastic balls used in indoor roller hockey. <G>
Then again, I've seen some on-ice officials take it bad enough that they
probably would have traded it for a kickback! =8^0
I took part in many war games against you guys. I hope you do better for
real, otherwise, just stay home.
"stanley_clifton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> By the way, we're going to invade soon and take back our rightful
> possessions in various parts of the US. Otherwise please feel free to
> look after yourselves in Iraq and Afghanistan for that matter.
>
[email protected] writes:
> Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa
> surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I
> have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.
Get youself a few featherboards. Put one (or more) on the top and
another on the side. That way you can use a long push stick, and
retain control.
--
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