In article <15wDb.564861$Fm2.532489@attbi_s04>, kZZZcarlson1391
@mchsi.com says...
> "Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> brought
> > forth from the murky depths:
>
> >
> > That said, maybe someone can tell me where I can find more of
> > the tapered ear plugs. Those I have are orange and very soft
> > foam. I bought a box of the HFT plugs and they're like 80grit
>
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-4025&PARTPG=INSRCM
>
> These may be similar to what you had. I have a box of 200 pair which will
> probably last me years, even using them out in the garage, mowing, at drag
> races, etc.
>
The set of 100 pairs I bought almost 10 years ago is just about out --
Looks like Enco will be getting an order from me, I like the orange foam
plugs better than the yellow ones I have almost used up.
Yes, I do use hearing protection with most tools, the biscuit joiner
is one of those tools that seems to fall into the gray area, and I was
curious how others approach its use. My main issue is either having
those plugs in for extended periods -- they get uncomfortable after
about 45 minutes, or having to remove and put them back in multiple
times.
Mike don't get so excited about it .
I am not telling you that you should go without ear protection,
I made a statement on what i do, about the only machine that to me makes a
bad loud noise is the router
I cannot in any degree see how you compare woodworking noise's with
gunshots.
Most noises we hear throughout the day are probably more damaging than the
sounds in the shop, mine or yours.
or anyone's, maybe they are worse in the confines of a home garage than in
my open shop, that still is only 2200 Sq Feet but a lot more open than your
confines.
Sometimes when on the phone I have shut the door to my office while the
router is running to muffle the high pitches coming from the router,
I can hear the machine but cannot hear if a piece of wood starts to
splinter, I imagine that is the close to similar to what you are hearing
with your mufflers on,
I don't claim to be an expert about it nor do I want to be
Its good to be safe, and everyone has their own level of safety,
Working in this business uses a lot of our senses not only the feel in our
hands but the sounds around us as in the sight of what we are doing.
To me shutting out the sounds is not much different than blindfolding me or
tying my hand behind my back.
I do know that there are some that understand what I am saying and then
there are others as you that have no concept at all about what I am saying.
Thats okay, I'm not trying to change you, For me its unsafe to operate a
machine with a blindfold on and also not to be able to hear.
Its not nuts and buy the way no you cannot hear a pin drop in most case's
even when no machine is running and you have no earmuffs on <G>
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George M. Kazaka wrote:
>
> > Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
> > To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
>
> You asked for it! :)
>
> That's nuts. Absolutely nuts. They don't block anything, they muffle it.
> Reduce the damaging frequencies.
>
> I can still hear a pin drop in my shop with my ears on, but it really cuts
> down on the *amount* of noise I get from running my crappy universal
> motors. Especially the TS and router, which put out about a billion
> decibels each.
>
> I don't know if mine are different from the average woodworker's hearing
> protectors or not though. They're gun mufflers. I bought them when I got
> my .45... Took it to the range (30 minutes away) without them once, and I
> only fired off one shot before packing up and coming home. People who
used
> to shoot without hearing protection were nuts. Especially people who used
> to shoot .357 and .44 Magnums without hearing protection. (Or worse,
> artillery. Sorry to all the vets who were doing that before hearing
> protection was invented. Cops too, for that matter.)
>
>
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>
> That's probably about all they can hear now.
>
> Woodworking isn't as noisy as shooting, but it's noisy. Running my TS
> without my ears is about as bad as shooting a .38 revolver with no ears.
> Tolerable, but unpleasant.
>
> > I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
> > major senses when working.
>
> If I ever go into your shop, I'm putting on my ears. I don't care what
you
> do. I don't care if you wear your seatbelt, or ride a motorcycle without
a
> helmet, or smoke, or drink a gallon of booze a day, or rewire outlets
> without cutting off the breaker. Your safety is your problem, and I'm
> happy that you're happy not to wear hearing protection. I still think
> you're off your rocker though! :)
>
> And anyway, to answer the OP's question... I don't have a biscuit joiner,
> but if I did, I'd probably wear my ears while using it.
>
> I don't put them on just to use my drill press, electric drill, or
> metal-cutting bandsaw, and that's about it. I wear them for using my
> jigsaw, circular saw, table saw, router, belt sander, shop vac, and I'll
> probably use them with the wood-cutting bandsaw I just got.
>
> My hearing is OK too. Some loss in the right ear, but I can still get a
> perfect score on a hearing test.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> brought
> forth from the murky depths:
>
> That said, maybe someone can tell me where I can find more of
> the tapered ear plugs. Those I have are orange and very soft
> foam. I bought a box of the HFT plugs and they're like 80grit
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-4025&PARTPG=INSRCM
These may be similar to what you had. I have a box of 200 pair which will
probably last me years, even using them out in the garage, mowing, at drag
races, etc.
Yup. Every time. Hearing protection? Some time.
--
This space for rent.
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Jeffo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I find my pc 557 a lot quieter than the old Makita I was using. With the
> Makita I nearly always used hearing protection, with the pc - about 75% of
> the time. A couple slots into soft material - no, the rest of the time -
> yes.
> What I find interesting is that there in no mention of dust masks. I find
> that cutting MDF and particle cores can kick up a lot of fine dust that I
> don't like to breath in. Does any body use dust collection with their
> biscuit cutters?
>
> Cheers,
> jeffo
>
>
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> > hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> > cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> > louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
>
>
George M. Kazaka wrote:
> Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
> To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
You asked for it! :)
That's nuts. Absolutely nuts. They don't block anything, they muffle it.
Reduce the damaging frequencies.
I can still hear a pin drop in my shop with my ears on, but it really cuts
down on the *amount* of noise I get from running my crappy universal
motors. Especially the TS and router, which put out about a billion
decibels each.
I don't know if mine are different from the average woodworker's hearing
protectors or not though. They're gun mufflers. I bought them when I got
my .45... Took it to the range (30 minutes away) without them once, and I
only fired off one shot before packing up and coming home. People who used
to shoot without hearing protection were nuts. Especially people who used
to shoot .357 and .44 Magnums without hearing protection. (Or worse,
artillery. Sorry to all the vets who were doing that before hearing
protection was invented. Cops too, for that matter.)
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
That's probably about all they can hear now.
Woodworking isn't as noisy as shooting, but it's noisy. Running my TS
without my ears is about as bad as shooting a .38 revolver with no ears.
Tolerable, but unpleasant.
> I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
> major senses when working.
If I ever go into your shop, I'm putting on my ears. I don't care what you
do. I don't care if you wear your seatbelt, or ride a motorcycle without a
helmet, or smoke, or drink a gallon of booze a day, or rewire outlets
without cutting off the breaker. Your safety is your problem, and I'm
happy that you're happy not to wear hearing protection. I still think
you're off your rocker though! :)
And anyway, to answer the OP's question... I don't have a biscuit joiner,
but if I did, I'd probably wear my ears while using it.
I don't put them on just to use my drill press, electric drill, or
metal-cutting bandsaw, and that's about it. I wear them for using my
jigsaw, circular saw, table saw, router, belt sander, shop vac, and I'll
probably use them with the wood-cutting bandsaw I just got.
My hearing is OK too. Some loss in the right ear, but I can still get a
perfect score on a hearing test.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:13:09 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:
>Put 'em on! I even wear ear plugs when I go on long drives.
>I've found that I arrive a lot fresher since the white noise
>doesn't wear me down as much.
FWIW, this is an excellent idea while flying commercial. Many folks
don't realize just how loud it really is in a jet, especially back in
cattle class.
Years ago, I started wearing foam plugs while flying and I couldn't
believe the difference. Try it next time.
Barry
I find my pc 557 a lot quieter than the old Makita I was using. With the
Makita I nearly always used hearing protection, with the pc - about 75% of
the time. A couple slots into soft material - no, the rest of the time -
yes.
What I find interesting is that there in no mention of dust masks. I find
that cutting MDF and particle cores can kick up a lot of fine dust that I
don't like to breath in. Does any body use dust collection with their
biscuit cutters?
Cheers,
jeffo
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:13:09 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Put 'em on! I even wear ear plugs when I go on long drives.
> >I've found that I arrive a lot fresher since the white noise
> >doesn't wear me down as much.
>
> FWIW, this is an excellent idea while flying commercial. Many folks
> don't realize just how loud it really is in a jet, especially back in
> cattle class.
>
> Years ago, I started wearing foam plugs while flying and I couldn't
> believe the difference. Try it next time.
>
> Barry
I'll may be flying in February with a 10 month old and a 2 1/2 year old (not
to mention my wife). Will ear plugs work in my case as well?
todd
Greetings and Salutations.
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:49:05 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:20:24 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
>>To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
>>I've been at it for 48 years and there is no problem with my hearing.
>>The danger is not hearing the sound of the machine and any cutting tool
>>working the wood
>>The slightest thing wrong with any motor or any piece of wood being cut i
>>can hear across the shop,
>>Whether I'm working it or someone else is working it.
>>I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
>>major senses when working.
>>George
>
>
>I agree to a point, no flame intended. Has your hearing ever been
>medically tested? You may simply be used to some loss, as you've
>adjusted to it over time.
>
>I feel that hearing protection enables me to hear bad things better
>and earlier. For years, I could easily find a marginal driver in a
>massive speaker array, running full tilt, with David Clark muffs on.
>I've found the same to be true with tools. By lowering the overall
>volume, I can better hear the details of the sounds.
>
>Barry
Well, thought I would chime in with a thought here too.
I have been pretty religious for quite a number of years about
wearing ear protection when I expect to be near loud noises.
I used to go to rock concerts back in the 60s, and, the ringing
and temporary deafness afterwards was a warning to me that
it could be permanent. I have a couple of sets of muffs
in the shop, and, (easier to find) a box of 100 sets of corded
earplugs, and, I use them.
The fact of the matter is that the ear is an amazingly
sensitive instrument. It can hear the most subtle sounds, but,
NOT if it is flooded with too much OTHER sound. I find that
when I run the riding lawnmower, and DON'T wear protection, I
can hardly hear myself think. All I hear is the roar of the
motor. When I wear earplugs, I can hear the "whish" of the
belts on the drives, and, the jingle of the pins holding the
deck on the mower. Because I am eliminating the firehose
spray of noise, I can hear the subtle variations.
In the shop, with the router, tablesaw, etc, I find
the same thing holds. Granted my Unisaw is not a REAL
roaring monster, but, I know that I can hear the teeth singing
in the wood when I am wearing protection, and cannot hear
it for the other noises when not wearing protection.
As for the "study" that says that only very sudden, loud
noises cause long-term damage...I don't think I would trust even two
or three studies that reported this. I would have to see a LOT
of proof. It is my picture of reality that the snail-like inner ear
is lined with millions of cilia, with each "hair" pickup being tuned
to a different frequency. When we "hear" that frequency, the
vibrations in the ear couple with the appropriate cilia, and, when the
cilia wave back and forth, it stimulates a nerve and sends an
impulse down the auditory nerve. Those cilia, like metal, can
"fatigue" and break off...and when they do, we lose a bit of ability
to sense a given frequency. The speed with which these cilia break
off is a function of intensity (how far the cilia bend) and and how
LONG the sound lasts (how much bending back and forth the cilia
has to do). So...REALLY intense sounds, or, long-term sounds at
a given frequency can cause the loss of ability to hear.
As an analogy...I could take an ax and whack your hand off at
the wrist...or I could take a steak knife, and saw it off,
slowly...taking a couple of days. In either case, the hand will be
gone. It is my feeling that auditory damage ALWAYS happens when the
sound level reaches a certain level (110 db, or something like that)
and that it is CUMULATIVE...so the best thing to do is
protect, protect, protect.
As another example...I used to work with Data General
Nova computers, when I worked in a third-party hardware
maintenance shop. The switching power supplies had this REALLY
annoying whistle at about 18-20 kHz. The hardware guys could not
hear it, but, it bothered the heck out of me. They did not
believe me, but, I could tell them accurately when they
switched the PS on and off, even if I was in another room.
They worked with the sound day in and day out...and had
developed "flat spots" in their hearing. Mine was still
relatively intact, so I could hear the sound and they could not.
It was not a LOUD sound, but, it was ALWAYS there.
Sorry for the length of posting, but, I have become
kind of a Herbert about this topic. I was only given one set
of ears, and, have not found where to trade them in for new
so have come to believe that ear (and EYE) protection is
terribly important.
Regards
Dave Mundt
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:34:06 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Do ya'll use hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer?
Get some good and comfortable ears (mine are fat Peltors). Then you
wear them most of the day, just for the peace and quiet.
With my biscuiter (AEG 650) I probably wear them or not, depending on
whether they're sitting on the bench or back on the hook over the
other side of the 'shop. I don't _need_ them, but I often find
concentration easier with them on.
I have a radio on BBC Radio 4 when I'm in the workshop. The only thing
that really makes me run screaming for earmuffs is when The Archers
come on.
--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
Ear protection, like eye protection, is always advisable...tho I've
been in this trade for 40 years and seldom use ear protetion... I the
more so need ear protection from the little woman of the house.
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:34:06 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
>cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
>louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
In article <[email protected]>, "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Its not nuts and buy the way no you cannot hear a pin drop in most case's
>even when no machine is running and you have no earmuffs on <G>
You probably can't.
But _I_can_.
That's because I protect my hearing, and you don't.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:31:20 -0600, "todd"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'll may be flying in February with a 10 month old and a 2 1/2 year old (not
>to mention my wife). Will ear plugs work in my case as well?
On a whole 'nuther level!
Barry
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:20:51 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
scribbled
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:01:55 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
>brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>I agree with Doug & Silvan. I also had a nasty wreck as a kid (20
>>years old). Lost my left eye and a couple of teeth when my faced
>
>Roger. That's a definite ouch. Sorry to hear that.
>
>Soooo, if you wear a bifocal monocle, do we call ya 3-EYES?
Technically, I already have three eyes: my functioning right eye, my
atrophied original left eye and a plastic corneo-scleral prosthesis
(AKA glass eye). So a bifocal monocle would make me a 5-EYES!
>>I would be dead rather than a
>>one-eye-talian if I hadn't worn a seat belt that day in May 1977.
>
>I hear that. I'll bet you had fun while learning Greek mythology.
> 0-)
Hey, I never thought of Cyclops as one-eye-talians before! Ulysses did
find Polyphemus in Sicily, IIRC. Cool!
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:31:38 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> scribbled
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Which is why I have a firm rule: my car doesn't roll until everybody is
>> buckled in. People who object to that can find a ride somewhere else.
>
>Yeah, now, I'm the same way. If it's *my* car, I get to set the rules.
>
>I had a nasty wreck as a kid. I got a seatbelt burn instead of a face full
>of glass and asphalt. I was a seatbelt wearer then, but I've been a lot
>more secure in my feeling that I'm doing the right thing ever since.
I agree with Doug & Silvan. I also had a nasty wreck as a kid (20
years old). Lost my left eye and a couple of teeth when my faced
smashed on the steering wheel because the belt did not lock. I also
had a nasty diagonal bruise across my chest. I am very glad I got that
bruise. This was before seat belts were compulsory, but, as I figured
then, if Niki Lauda and Gilles Villeneuve could wear them, so could I,
at least on the highway. Since then, I have religiously worn seat
belts at all times in the car. It also convinced other members of my
family and my friends to wear them. I would be dead rather than a
one-eye-talian if I hadn't worn a seat belt that day in May 1977.
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Continuous noise, like a router
>or music, is relatively harmless.
Would you be so kind as to point us to that study?
Barry
In article <[email protected]>, *removethis*[email protected] wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:17:34 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>When I ride with crazy people who don't use seatbelts, I always fish the
>>thing out of all the McDonald's bags and put it on. I don't try to tell
>>them to put *theirs* on. Not my problem.
>
>On a side note, it could be YOUR problem.
>
>Unbelted passengers can become projectiles in a crash, hitting the
>back of your seat or hitting you from the side, depending on the
>impact.
Which is why I have a firm rule: my car doesn't roll until everybody is
buckled in. People who object to that can find a ride somewhere else.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> HorseDick <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > My PC557 is noisy.
> >
> > dave
> >
> Have you done any empirical testing to backup this conclusion?
I think he concluded this when the corn came out.
In article <[email protected]>, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Which is why I have a firm rule: my car doesn't roll until everybody is
>> buckled in. People who object to that can find a ride somewhere else.
>
>Yeah, now, I'm the same way. If it's *my* car, I get to set the rules.
>
>I had a nasty wreck as a kid. I got a seatbelt burn instead of a face full
>of glass and asphalt. I was a seatbelt wearer then, but I've been a lot
>more secure in my feeling that I'm doing the right thing ever since.
>
I got my introduction to the value of seat belts at age 13. I was a front-seat
passenger in my cousin's VW Beetle, UNbelted, when we had a *very* minor
accident. We were second in line at a traffic light; light turned green, guy
ahead of us started to move, we started to move, bozo ran the red light, guy
ahead of us stopped, we didn't. Not til we hit his bumper, anyway. We hadn't
moved fifteen feet, couldn't have been going more than 5 mph tops, I'm sure.
Just the same, I whacked my forehead on the windshield, and my nose on the
dashboard. No injuries other than a bloody nose and a knot on my noggin, but
it was enough to convince me. Never again have I ridden in a car without a
seat belt.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Doug Miller writes:
>>
>I got my introduction to the value of seat belts at age 13. I was a
>front-seat
>passenger in my cousin's VW Beetle, UNbelted, when we had a *very* minor
>accident. We were second in line at a traffic light; light turned green, guy
>ahead of us started to move, we started to move, bozo ran the red light, guy
>ahead of us stopped, we didn't. Not til we hit his bumper, anyway. We hadn't
>moved fifteen feet, couldn't have been going more than 5 mph tops, I'm sure.
>Just the same, I whacked my forehead on the windshield, and my nose on the
>dashboard. No injuries other than a bloody nose and a knot on my noggin, but
>it was enough to convince me. Never again have I ridden in a car without a
>seat belt.
Long ago, though not all that far away, I had a similar experience. A friend
spun his daddy's Puick after hitting a puddle (nothing like learning about
hydroplaning the hard way), running us off the road and to a quick stop in mud.
No real damage to vehicle or people, but I was concussed a bit and had a nose
that changed the seat cover colors.
Trouble is, that was about '55 or '56, and it wasn't until '57 that Ford
attempted (and failed) to introduce seat belts as an extra cost option. I hate
the things, now, but I use them religiously.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 15 Dec 2003 14:33:32 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
[snip]
|Trouble is, that was about '55 or '56, and it wasn't until '57 that Ford
|attempted (and failed) to introduce seat belts as an extra cost option. I hate
|the things, now, but I use them religiously.
I installed seat belts in my '36 Ford in 1958. In AZ all front seat
passengers are required to be belted. If they aren't the *driver* can
be cited.
In accident cases were kids aren't in child seats the parents are
routinely cited for child abuse. Unless they're illegal aliens of
course and then they have more "rights" than us citizens.
My 557 is noisy. You bet I use hearing protection.
Rob
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
In article <[email protected]>, *removethis*[email protected] wrote:
>I have several types of protection easily available in the shop. They
>are always at hand, so there is no excuse to don something. I have
>several sets of the $15 Peltor muffs, 3M foam plugs (with and without
>neck bands), and Peltor AM/FM muffs. I've found that storing all
>safety gear out in the open, not buried in a drawer, makes me more
>likely to use it every time, especially for those "quick" jobs.
>
An excellent point. About a year ago, SWMBO built a rack with about a dozen
pegs and mounted it on the wall right inside the shop door -- for hanging
goggles and earmuffs. They're always available. No excuses.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
As a rule, no ... my 557 is pretty quite, at least in most of the woods I've
used it in thus far ... mainly oak and walnut. It is also for a very brief
duration for the most part, with no sustained level like there is with a
router, which is what will eventually get you.
If I had to guess, I say around 85 dB spl at arm' length, which is about
where I usually mix at in the studio. When I get a chance, I'll bring a spl
meter to the shop and check it out.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
In article <[email protected]>, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> An excellent point. About a year ago, SWMBO built a rack with about a
>> dozen pegs and mounted it on the wall right inside the shop door -- for
>> hanging goggles and earmuffs. They're always available. No excuses.
>
>Me too again. I've always been pretty good about the ears, but lazy about
>the eyes. I bought some extra glasses and have ear/eye stations close to
>everything. No excuses.
>
>I really deserve an ass chewing for all the things I've done without eye
>protection, in truth. I'd better hope I never have to have an MRI.
>
A couple of years ago I bought an impact-rated face shield, and have never
regretted it. [Almost never. *] It is _so_easy_ to put on, that there is just
no excuse for not wearing it, even in situations where it doesn't seem to be
needed. Emphasis on "seem", BTW. Earlier this month, I was notching a board on
the band saw. Pretty safe, right? Somehow, the offcut snagged on the blade and
came flying toward me and WHACK! hit the face shield right in front of my
nose.
A bonus to the face shield is that my prescription glasses don't fog up.
[*] You gotta remember to flip it up if you feel a sneeze coming on. DAMHIKT.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Do ya'll use hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer?
I think my drill is the only power tool I don't use hearing
protection with. And even then - only the little Makita. When I
drag out the Milwaukee Magnum...I put on the ears.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
>cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
>louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
I use hearing protection with *all* power tools. Always have.
Pays off, too. I have my hearing medically evaluated every few years. It's as
good now at age 45 as it was when I was half this age.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Andy Dingley wrote:
> Get some good and comfortable ears (mine are fat Peltors). Then you
> wear them most of the day, just for the peace and quiet.
(Psssst. I even where mine when hand planing. Sometimes that shick shick
shick noise gets to be too loud for my tender widdle wuss ears.)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
HorseDick <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> My PC557 is noisy.
>
> dave
>
Have you done any empirical testing to backup this conclusion?
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Continuous noise, like a router
> >or music, is relatively harmless.
>
> Would you be so kind as to point us to that study?
>
> Barry
so, standing next to a running jet engine would be, 'relatively harmless'?
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Chris wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > From what I have learned, there is little that can be done about the
> > ringing, but I would check into it anyway. Maybe some new
> > discovery...
>
>
> I don't hold out much hope.
>
> Last time I went to a ear/eye/nose/throat specialist he examined me and
> said there was nothing he could do for my ears but he could fix my nose.
> ??? But it's not my sinuses driving me nuts.
>
> My tinnitus started with noise but has been aggravated by a neck injury
> (disks protruding into my spine). I have imperical evidence. I lifted
> something heavy the ringing/ eeee got worse. Before that if I slept
> wrong I would have a hum. I could cite all sorts of experiences. I told
> this to a neck surgeon who said he never heard of this so it was highly
> unlikely, I told my primary physician who said it was impossible.
i had this. look into an acd.
(http://www.esurgeon.com/scripts/content/treatmentoptions/neck-anteriorcervi
caldiscectomy.html). fixed me right up. i can walk better, and regained
feeling in my fingers.
> Doctors, make a direct observation, they tell you what you have
> experienced didn't happen. I do a little web research and it seems some
> auditory phenomena can be traced to the brain stem. Go figure.
>
> Doctors ....
took doctors about 20 years to find the problem in me, 3 different ones in
the past 5 years alone.
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
John wrote:
> physical pain. Yet it doesn't bother any one else. It's almost
> funny, it's a hearing problem yet your ears are more sensitive to some
> sounds than with normal hearing.
What gets me is the noise CRTs make when they're sitting there warmed up,
but not scanning. Sets my teeth on edge.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:38:38 GMT, Mark <[email protected]>
wrotg:
[snip]
>
>I to have tinnitus. It's with me from the time I wake to the time I go
>to sleep. And it sucks. I was listening to the radio today and on comes
>a Xylophone (Yeah, PBS/NPR). The quality of the sound was almost eye
>water painful. At times the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is so loud
>it almost takes on a physical presence and I can't believe noone else
>can hear it.
>
>Which of course they can't. It's all in my head.
I can see you've been there. For me it's the flute, and most music as
played on the radio. The high frequency distorted harsh sound. Real
physical pain. Yet it doesn't bother any one else. It's almost
funny, it's a hearing problem yet your ears are more sensitive to some
sounds than with normal hearing.
>And get togethers with the extended family is always a joy. Their full
>blooded Italians from the old country. They make so much frigging noise
>I can't stand it. Within a half hour I'm ready to ... do something unsocial.
Yep, any time at all in a crowd and I'm ready to run as fast as I can
to get out.
>
>I would suggest wearing hearing protection, unless you don't want to
>have a quiet moment again. Ever.
Amen
>
>PS: Wife and I have changed health insurence so I'm going to start the
>roundy rounds with a new set of doctors. Lets see if I can get this set
>to do anything.
Hope you find some relief soon, and when you do, if you would be so
kind to let us know what helped.
John, ringing away in Minnesota.
Charles Spitzer wrote:
>
> i had this. look into an acd.
> <http://www.esurgeon.com/scripts/content/treatmentoptions/neck-anteriorcervicaldiscectomy.html>.
> fixed me right up. i can walk better, and regained feeling in my fingers.
Bookmarked. Thanks.
I've known I was looking at a double fusion for several years, and I'll
admit I'm a coward about it. I've done some dangerous things, even
screwed up a few times and hurt myself. That's completely different than
*knowing* it's going to happen.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Doug Miller wrote:
> [*] You gotta remember to flip it up if you feel a sneeze coming on.
> [DAMHIKT.
Ewwwww. :)
I have one of those on the way, hopefully. I figure it's pretty much a
mandatory piece of equipment when running a lathe.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
> To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
> I've been at it for 48 years and there is no problem with my hearing.
> The danger is not hearing the sound of the machine and any cutting tool
> working the wood
Yep, both my grandfathers made the same argument regarding running a
tractor without hearing protection. Both of them wound up wearing
hearing aids by the time they were in their 70's, one of them couldn't
hear very well even then. My dad needed hearing aids in his late 60's,
same source. I have a certain amount of high frequency loss due again to
the same source -- have you actually had your hearing checked or are you
like grandfather #2 who thought he could hear just fine, people just
didn't talk loud enough?
Fact of the matter is that with hearing protection, you aren't giving
up situational awareness, you still hear the machinery and are more
likely to hear a machine problem.
> The slightest thing wrong with any motor or any piece of wood being cut i
> can hear across the shop,
> Whether I'm working it or someone else is working it.
> I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
> major senses when working.
> George
>
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> > hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> > cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> > louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
>
>
>
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:34:06 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
Do ya'll use
>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer?
What say?
(tom - who figgers it was the endless hours of standing in front of a
Vox Super Beatle/Fender Twin Reverb (tubes)/Peavey that was the
beginning of the end of his hearing - it ain't all bad - it's a built
in excuse to hear what you want to hear when yer wife is yammerin)
"Why is your amplifier always turned to 10?"
"Because there ain't no 11 on the gotdamned thang!"
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
Tom Watson writes:
>Do ya'll use
>>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer?
>
>What say?
>
>(tom - who figgers it was the endless hours of standing in front of a
>Vox Super Beatle/Fender Twin Reverb (tubes)/Peavey that was the
>beginning of the end of his hearing - it ain't all bad - it's a built
>in excuse to hear what you want to hear when yer wife is yammerin)
Nothing so fancy for mine. My first tour at the Parris Island rifle range, they
wanted to burn up some WWII/KW ammo...sl we shot the course either 9 or 10
times (we only moved stations 2-3 times, I think). That's about 500 rounds of
.30 caliber out of the spout of an M1. My damned ears have ringing ever since.
>"Why is your amplifier always turned to 10?"
>
>"Because there ain't no 11 on the gotdamned thang!"
You sure you don't live down the block from me? Actually, we've got a new bar
(in WV, this is a nightclub..the Nip & Cue), a whole block from the local
elementary school, about 4 blocks from my house. I can literally feel their
subwoofer set up when I try to sleep. Call the cops? Bet on it. Results.
Semi-snotty voice from the guy on duty as he takes down the info. That's it.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 14 Dec 2003 14:31:23 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
> I can literally feel their
>subwoofer set up when I try to sleep.
Do you have city sewers?
Bass has been known to travel through sewer systems. Occasionally, a
section of pipe will even end up with just the right dimensions to
amplify it.
I worked on a job where a nightclub was killing a residential area
with bass. Correcting it required the installation of some jogs in
the home feeds to detune it. <G>
Barry
On 14 Dec 2003 14:31:23 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
[snip]
. My damned ears have ringing ever since.
And that's worse than just some reduction in hearing. Soon as you're
done making noise you take off the hearing protection because the
inferno ringing starts to drive you nuts with out the normal
background noise to cover it up some. DAMHIKT
John, in Minnesota
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:27:51 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
>
>> I worked on a job where a nightclub was killing a residential area
>> with bass. Correcting it required the installation of some jogs in
>> the home feeds to detune it. <G>
>
>That bar must have had some big juice. I'd expect most localities would
>just tell them to turn the damn thing down, lest they have their permits
>revoked and be rezoned into a daycare center. :)
It really wasn't loud, falling well within the established noise
guidelines,as measured by contractor after contractor. The plumbing
made it loud for the homeowners. <G>
Barry
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> I worked on a job where a nightclub was killing a residential area
> with bass. Correcting it required the installation of some jogs in
> the home feeds to detune it. <G>
That bar must have had some big juice. I'd expect most localities would
just tell them to turn the damn thing down, lest they have their permits
revoked and be rezoned into a daycare center. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan notes:
>
>That bar must have had some big juice. I'd expect most localities would
>just tell them to turn the damn thing down, lest they have their permits
>revoked and be rezoned into a daycare center. :)
Yeah. But some won't bother with such minor stuff. After all, the bar employs
people. I think that's what they are though I'm not prepared to debate the
"yes" side of the issue.
Got a doozy just opened up 4 blocks from here in an old bakery. I really think
I prefer the aroma of fresh bread at 2 a.m.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
> Got a doozy just opened up 4 blocks from here in an old bakery. I really
> think I prefer the aroma of fresh bread at 2 a.m.
The giant, vacant building across from me almost wound up as a porno store.
Lucky I can say almost.
I'm not saying I've never been in a porno store, but they shouldn't be
located anywhere near children, or near anybody else, really. Those freak
magnets should be as far away from everything as possible.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan responds:
>
>The giant, vacant building across from me almost wound up as a porno store.
>
>Lucky I can say almost.
>
>I'm not saying I've never been in a porno store, but they shouldn't be
>located anywhere near children, or near anybody else, really. Those freak
>magnets should be as far away from everything as possible.
You are lucky. There are several porno stores in P'burg, one of them just after
the Kentuch Fried and just before the McDonald's when you're heading downtown.
It says open 24 hours. I often wonder how it stays in business (and there are
others scattered around the area...at least two more on route 50 to
Clarksburg). I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle parked there, except for a
single car that is probably the manager's. Or clerk's.
Stripper bars are common around here, too. You'd almost think you were back in
N. Carolina with those.
The bar I mentioned is about 1-1/2 blocks from the local grade school, but
there's an old sleaze bar half a block from the school...just an old rundown
rummies bar that has been there for a long time if the dirty handprints on the
door are any indication. There's another bar about a block further away from
the school on the same side of the street, just past the school bus barn (which
is right across the street from the noisemaking bar).
Lenient, I'd say.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
> route 50 to Clarksburg). I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle parked
> there, except for a single car that is probably the manager's. Or clerk's.
Most of them are like that during the day. They get active in the wee
hours, when the freaks are about.
> Stripper bars are common around here, too. You'd almost think you were
> back in N. Carolina with those.
You have NC beat 40:1 on tittie bars. You let your money magnets get
completely naked too, which most states don't.
> past the school bus barn (which is right across the street from the
> noisemaking bar).
>
> Lenient, I'd say.
I'm glad we have some community standards here. :) I have nothing against
those places, but I'm stodgy enough to think that children and debauchery
shouldn't mix.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:40:51 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> route 50 to Clarksburg). I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle parked
>> there, except for a single car that is probably the manager's. Or clerk's.
>
>Most of them are like that during the day. They get active in the wee
>hours, when the freaks are about.
I bet you'd recognize a few of those freaks if you hung around there
at that time of night. folks you thought were so straightlaced at the
office....
If using it on and off for more than 15 minutes, I'd recommend using
earmuffs. If using other tools as well, definitely.
If you don't like using earmuffs, shop around for a comfortable pair,
hearing loss is cumulative, and the voice ranges are typically the last to
go - DAMHIKT.
regards,
Greg
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I agree to a point, no flame intended. Has your hearing ever been
> medically tested? You may simply be used to some loss, as you've
> adjusted to it over time.
>
> I feel that hearing protection enables me to hear bad things better
> and earlier. For years, I could easily find a marginal driver in a
> massive speaker array, running full tilt, with David Clark muffs on.
> I've found the same to be true with tools. By lowering the overall
> volume, I can better hear the details of the sounds.
>
> Barry
I suffer from hearing loss as a result of an accident (surfing
accident - no kidding!). Thus, I am pretty diligent about hearing
protection. I wear ear plugs while riding my motorcycle. (Wind noise
is prolonged 80+ decibles in the high frequency ranges that do the
most hearing damage). By blocking out the high frequency noise (which
are blocked effectively by hearing protection, I can hear the lower
frequency noises better (car horns, truck engines, my OWN engin
noises, etc) which are not affected as much by ear plugs.
I have found the effect similar in the workshop. I don't wear my ears
all of the time, but ALWAYS while using my router (very loud and
painful high pitch) and I can hear other noises better.
Mark <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> At times it takes on a ringing like being cuffed in the ear.
>
> And get togethers with the extended family is always a joy. Their full
> blooded Italians from the old country. They make so much frigging noise
> I can't stand it. Within a half hour I'm ready to ... do something unsocial.
>
>
> I would suggest wearing hearing protection, unless you don't want to
> have a quiet moment again. Ever.
>
>
> PS: Wife and I have changed health insurence so I'm going to start the
> roundy rounds with a new set of doctors. Lets see if I can get this set
> to do anything.
>
Mark,
From what I have learned, there is little that can be done about the
ringing, but I would check into it anyway. Maybe some new
discovery...
As for the loud Italian family - I have it on both sides, mine and my
wife's. I have found the ear muffs work well, but can offend the
sensibilites of some of the old timers. If you wear ear plugs and
keep your hair long, they can't tell. Eliminates the holiday-headache
syndrome too!
-Chris
George M. Kazaka wrote:
> Mike don't get so excited about it .
I'm not excited about it at all. I thought I was pretty clear on that
point. I think you're nuts, but they ain't my ears, so I don't care what
you want to do.
When I ride with crazy people who don't use seatbelts, I always fish the
thing out of all the McDonald's bags and put it on. I don't try to tell
them to put *theirs* on. Not my problem.
To take a different side, my guard hasn't been anywhere near my saw in
years, and I'm usually too lazy to put the splitter back on until I see a
board start to crawl up, or a kerf wanting to close. That ought to give
you a chance to send a return flame my way. :)
> I cannot in any degree see how you compare woodworking noise's with
> gunshots.
You don't have my table saw. :)
Seriously, the start up noise on that thing is not unlike a gunshot.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Doug Miller wrote:
Oh, I missed that bit.
>> Its not nuts and buy the way no you cannot hear a pin drop in most case's
>>even when no machine is running and you have no earmuffs on <G>
>
> You probably can't.
>
> But _I_can_.
Me too. I guess it depends on what the pin drops onto though. It'd have to
be really quiet for me to hear it landing in a big wad of poly fill, say.
I can hear *spiders* crawling up the wall. (They hafta be big spiders,
granted. One reason I hate wolf spider so much is because of how creepy
they sound. Especially when they crawl over plastic. Shudder.)
(And no, I'm not hearing invisible spiders. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Chris wrote:
>
>
> From what I have learned, there is little that can be done about the
> ringing, but I would check into it anyway. Maybe some new
> discovery...
I don't hold out much hope.
Last time I went to a ear/eye/nose/throat specialist he examined me and
said there was nothing he could do for my ears but he could fix my nose.
??? But it's not my sinuses driving me nuts.
My tinnitus started with noise but has been aggravated by a neck injury
(disks protruding into my spine). I have imperical evidence. I lifted
something heavy the ringing/ eeee got worse. Before that if I slept
wrong I would have a hum. I could cite all sorts of experiences. I told
this to a neck surgeon who said he never heard of this so it was highly
unlikely, I told my primary physician who said it was impossible.
Doctors, make a direct observation, they tell you what you have
experienced didn't happen. I do a little web research and it seems some
auditory phenomena can be traced to the brain stem. Go figure.
Doctors ....
>
> As for the loud Italian family - I have it on both sides, mine and my
> wife's. I have found the ear muffs work well, but can offend the
> sensibilites of some of the old timers. If you wear ear plugs and
> keep your hair long, they can't tell. Eliminates the holiday-headache
> syndrome too!
If I had hair it may be an option (another doctor story).
Part of the problem is, in my Celtic-Austrian family, when there was
that much ... noise ... someone was either getting their ass kicked or
about to. When Ma squawked it was time to duck. Allot of the in-law
noise problem is my upbringing verses the in-laws culture. Add tinnitus
and it becomes explosive.
To be fair, Wife and I would visit her parents and have a perfectly fine
time. It's only when her siblings are involved. To be even more fair, I
don't do crowds well at all.
Then there's the thing where the neighbors dog barks at least 100 feet
away that makes distorted noises in my ears.
Yeah, folks, wear hearing protection. You don't want any part of this. I
thought it was bad when it was mild. Now that it's worse I think it's
bad. I don't want to know how much worse it can get. And I haven't
really addressed the depression/ distress part of this condition.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:45:47 -0500, "Jeffo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Does any body use dust collection with their
>biscuit cutters?
Yup!
An auto-switched Shop Vac, creating yet another hearing assault. <G>
Barry
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:34:06 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer?
YES!
Hearing damage is based on volume and time. Even when it's "not that
loud", doing it for a decent amount of time can cause irreversible
damage. If you use a dust collector or vac with the biscuit cutter,
you may be exposed to more noise than you think. The hum of a dust
collection system often dosen't SEEM loud, due to a low pitch, but it
may be more damaging than expected. I was a pro sound guy for quite
a while and did a lot of reading on hearing protection, as deaf sound
mixers don't command very good fees. <G>
I have several types of protection easily available in the shop. They
are always at hand, so there is no excuse to don something. I have
several sets of the $15 Peltor muffs, 3M foam plugs (with and without
neck bands), and Peltor AM/FM muffs. I've found that storing all
safety gear out in the open, not buried in a drawer, makes me more
likely to use it every time, especially for those "quick" jobs.
The AM/FM units are so comfortable, I normally wear them all the time
when using power tools. I don't even take them off when the tools are
shut off, I just keep on listening to the radio. The external noise
reduction of them is very good, so the radio dosen't have to be loud
to be clearly heard over the tools. These things are GREAT for mowing
as well. The volume and duration of a typical lawn mowing session will
damage your hearing, and these muffs entertain you to boot.
For really loud environments, like the pits at auto races, around
guns, or around our diesel generators at work, I use loose 3M foam
plugs under a set of muffs.
Barry
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:09:32 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
>in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Continuous noise, like a router
>> >or music, is relatively harmless.
>>
>> Would you be so kind as to point us to that study?
>>
>> Barry
>
>so, standing next to a running jet engine would be, 'relatively harmless'?
>
Join me in the wait for a citation. <G>
Barry
Tom Watson wrote:
> "Why is your amplifier always turned to 10?"
>
> "Because there ain't no 11 on the gotdamned thang!"
Not me, buddy... I guess I couldn't hack it in a rock band. My only amp is
a little Roland Jazz Chorus-77 (solid state, very clean, twin 8" woofers)
and mine is set at about 3 now. Sometimes even 3 is too loud.
I guess I'm just a pussy.
Not that it matters, since I'm the only audience I ever have, and I sound
great to me just like I am.
Well, sort of. Depends on how drunk I am how good I sound. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:20:24 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
>To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
>I've been at it for 48 years and there is no problem with my hearing.
>The danger is not hearing the sound of the machine and any cutting tool
>working the wood
>The slightest thing wrong with any motor or any piece of wood being cut i
>can hear across the shop,
>Whether I'm working it or someone else is working it.
>I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
>major senses when working.
>George
I agree to a point, no flame intended. Has your hearing ever been
medically tested? You may simply be used to some loss, as you've
adjusted to it over time.
I feel that hearing protection enables me to hear bad things better
and earlier. For years, I could easily find a marginal driver in a
massive speaker array, running full tilt, with David Clark muffs on.
I've found the same to be true with tools. By lowering the overall
volume, I can better hear the details of the sounds.
Barry
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:17:34 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>When I ride with crazy people who don't use seatbelts, I always fish the
>thing out of all the McDonald's bags and put it on. I don't try to tell
>them to put *theirs* on. Not my problem.
On a side note, it could be YOUR problem.
Unbelted passengers can become projectiles in a crash, hitting the
back of your seat or hitting you from the side, depending on the
impact.
I knew someone who was killed by an unbelted rear seat adult, driven
forward by the impact, crushing the guy I knew.
Barry
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> family and my friends to wear them. I would be dead rather than a
> one-eye-talian if I hadn't worn a seat belt that day in May 1977.
One-eye-talian... You should have warned me first. Got a towel?
(Glad you were wearing the seatbelt. I was wearing them before they became
compulsory too, incidentally, though I was just a five year old in '77.)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Mike now your screwing with us aren't you
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> > Get some good and comfortable ears (mine are fat Peltors). Then you
> > wear them most of the day, just for the peace and quiet.
>
> (Psssst. I even where mine when hand planing. Sometimes that shick shick
> shick noise gets to be too loud for my tender widdle wuss ears.)
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Doug Miller wrote:
> Which is why I have a firm rule: my car doesn't roll until everybody is
> buckled in. People who object to that can find a ride somewhere else.
Yeah, now, I'm the same way. If it's *my* car, I get to set the rules.
I had a nasty wreck as a kid. I got a seatbelt burn instead of a face full
of glass and asphalt. I was a seatbelt wearer then, but I've been a lot
more secure in my feeling that I'm doing the right thing ever since.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:27:57 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> brought
forth from the murky depths:
>
>> I cannot in any degree see how you compare woodworking noise's with
>> gunshots.
Ask any doctor. Loud noises are bad for your hearing.
http://a2zvocalhealth.com/soundruler.html
http://www.com-coninc.com/TOO-LOUD05-22-2003.pdf
http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm#how-loud
>You are quite correct in that.
>Studies have shown that loud rock music, which was supposed to leave all the
>baby-boomers deaf by 50, has had little effect.
HUH? WHAT'D YOU SAY?
> Apparently it is sudden
>noises, like gun shots, that do the damage. Continuous noise, like a router
>or music, is relatively harmless.
Someone'll give you 50:1 odds on that one. I lost some of my
hearing when I worked as a mechanic at an auto body shop. A
few days of those air hammers on sheet metal got to me.
Unfortunately, I didn't have a pair of muffs so wads of toilet
paper did the trick whenever I had to be in their noisy area.
I finally got some ear plugs after that. After my back was
injured, I lost more hearing to tinnitus from all the aspirin
and NSAIDs I was taking. I still have the loss and the tinnitus.
Suckage x2.
>That said, I wear ear muffs with my lawnmower or router; usually not with my
>table saw.
Put 'em on! I even wear ear plugs when I go on long drives.
I've found that I arrive a lot fresher since the white noise
doesn't wear me down as much.
That said, maybe someone can tell me where I can find more of
the tapered ear plugs. Those I have are orange and very soft
foam. I bought a box of the HFT plugs and they're like 80grit
sandpaper and tough as leather. Anyone want some? I'm looking
for the bell-shaped plugs with the very wide bottom/outside OD.
I put them in backwards and they're much more comfy to sleep in,
keeping out the sound of any barking dogs or trash trucks.
__
/ \
| |
/____\ Ain't ascii great? Feh!
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
Larry Jaques asks:
>still have the loss and the tinnitus.
>Suckage x2.
Damned tinnitus is worse than the deafness, by far.
>
>That said, maybe someone can tell me where I can find more of
>the tapered ear plugs. Those I have are orange and very soft
>foam. I bought a box of the HFT plugs and they're like 80grit
>sandpaper and tough as leather. Anyone want some? I'm looking
>for the bell-shaped plugs with the very wide bottom/outside OD.
>I put them in backwards and they're much more comfy to sleep in,
>keeping out the sound of any barking dogs or trash trucks.
Try www.aosafety.com, check out the plugs they've got, and check out their
"Where To Buy" listing.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 16 Dec 2003 01:09:48 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Try www.aosafety.com, check out the plugs they've got, and check out their
>"Where To Buy" listing.
I like the 3M disposables in the aluminium case.
http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/browse/Module.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1579099762.1071579124@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadckefmfmkfcfngcfkmdgkldfhg.0&cacheID=ukie&3249031932=3249031932&stockNo=4095743
They're cheap, they work, and the cases are so damn useful that I'm
always buying more of them, just for the box. So I always have plenty
of the plugs going spare.
For forestry, I wear these underneath my earmuffs. Hat-mounted
earmuffs don't always give as good a seal as free-floating muffs, so
there's sometimes a high-frequency leak around them that the foam
plugs mop up.
--
What ? Me ? Evil Dictator of Iraq ?
Nah mate, I'm just a Hobbit, honest
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:01:55 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:31:38 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> scribbled
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> Which is why I have a firm rule: my car doesn't roll until everybody is
>>> buckled in. People who object to that can find a ride somewhere else.
>>
>>Yeah, now, I'm the same way. If it's *my* car, I get to set the rules.
>>
>>I had a nasty wreck as a kid. I got a seatbelt burn instead of a face full
>>of glass and asphalt. I was a seatbelt wearer then, but I've been a lot
>>more secure in my feeling that I'm doing the right thing ever since.
>
>I agree with Doug & Silvan. I also had a nasty wreck as a kid (20
>years old). Lost my left eye and a couple of teeth when my faced
Roger. That's a definite ouch. Sorry to hear that.
Soooo, if you wear a bifocal monocle, do we call ya 3-EYES?
>bruise. This was before seat belts were compulsory, but, as I figured
>then, if Niki Lauda and Gilles Villeneuve could wear them, so could I,
>at least on the highway. Since then, I have religiously worn seat
>belts at all times in the car. It also convinced other members of my
>family and my friends to wear them.
Ditto here. My dad used to race Autocross and Gymkhana so he was
used to belts. He made sure I installed them in my first car. Our
insurance, USAA, also gave benefits for those wearing belts. It
has been a habit since I was 8 or so.
>I would be dead rather than a
>one-eye-talian if I hadn't worn a seat belt that day in May 1977.
I hear that. I'll bet you had fun while learning Greek mythology.
0-)
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
My PC557 is noisy. Do what makes you happy, M&J. Are you two joined at
the hip like that new movie with Greg Kinnear?
dave
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:34:06 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
>hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
>cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
>louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
I wear ear protection using a headphones type that hangs overhead on
a wire and easy to reach and replace. There was a time I wasn't
wearing it because I'd lay it down someone and forget where I put it.
Watch the spelling of joiner, "jointer" is a different tool used to
obtain a straight edge.
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:44:45 GMT, "Keith Carlson"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>> That said, maybe someone can tell me where I can find more of
>> the tapered ear plugs. Those I have are orange and very soft
>> foam. I bought a box of the HFT plugs and they're like 80grit
>
>http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-4025&PARTPG=INSRCM
That looks like the beasties.
>These may be similar to what you had. I have a box of 200 pair which will
>probably last me years, even using them out in the garage, mowing, at drag
>races, etc.
I don't need: a) $35 worth of plugs .or. b) another 400 plugs.
Want to sell 10 or 12 pair? They'd fit in a #10 envelope.
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
Doug Miller wrote:
> An excellent point. About a year ago, SWMBO built a rack with about a
> dozen pegs and mounted it on the wall right inside the shop door -- for
> hanging goggles and earmuffs. They're always available. No excuses.
Me too again. I've always been pretty good about the ears, but lazy about
the eyes. I bought some extra glasses and have ear/eye stations close to
everything. No excuses.
I really deserve an ass chewing for all the things I've done without eye
protection, in truth. I'd better hope I never have to have an MRI.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
>>thing out of all the McDonald's bags and put it on. I don't try to tell
>>them to put *theirs* on. Not my problem.
>
> On a side note, it could be YOUR problem.
Whee. Thanks for that. Well, I try to avoid being in that situation in the
first place, but I'm not about to tell my boss to put his seatbelt on. ;)
I just quietly dig it out of all the crap and fasten it, and he rolls his
eyes at me.
Doesn't happen very often.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Okay get ready to flame me I can handle it,
To me it is a danger to put on those things that block your hearing
I've been at it for 48 years and there is no problem with my hearing.
The danger is not hearing the sound of the machine and any cutting tool
working the wood
The slightest thing wrong with any motor or any piece of wood being cut i
can hear across the shop,
Whether I'm working it or someone else is working it.
I know this is not for everyone but to me it would be blocking one of my
major senses when working.
George
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:21:16 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>John wrote:
>
>> physical pain. Yet it doesn't bother any one else. It's almost
>> funny, it's a hearing problem yet your ears are more sensitive to some
>> sounds than with normal hearing.
>
>What gets me is the noise CRTs make when they're sitting there warmed up,
>but not scanning. Sets my teeth on edge.
Yeah, I can take any fingernails on a blackboard but give me the
high-pitched whine of a CRT or failing PCB circuit (or the feel of
some types of frosted glass) and my nerves go wild.
--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Always.
Brian.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've been doing some work with my PC bisuit jointer. Do ya'll use
> hearing protection when using a biscuit jointer? It seems that on some
> cuts, it isn't much worse than a drill. On some cuts, it is much
> louder, and I definitely was using hearing protection for those cuts.
> I cannot in any degree see how you compare woodworking noise's with
> gunshots.
>
You are quite correct in that.
Studies have shown that loud rock music, which was supposed to leave all the
baby-boomers deaf by 50, has had little effect. Apparently it is sudden
noises, like gun shots, that do the damage. Continuous noise, like a router
or music, is relatively harmless.
That said, I wear ear muffs with my lawnmower or router; usually not with my
table saw.
In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> My main issue is either having
>those plugs in for extended periods -- they get uncomfortable after
>about 45 minutes, or having to remove and put them back in multiple
>times.
That's why I use earmuffs. They don't attenuate sound quite as well as the
plugs, but they do a much better job of protecting hearing -- because you will
use them more often because they're more comfortable and convenient.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Dave Mundt wrote:
> As an analogy...I could take an ax and whack your hand off at
> the wrist...or I could take a steak knife, and saw it off,
> slowly...taking a couple of days. In either case, the hand will be
> gone.
But with the steak knife you have fresh meat longer.
;]
I to have tinnitus. It's with me from the time I wake to the time I go
to sleep. And it sucks. I was listening to the radio today and on comes
a Xylophone (Yeah, PBS/NPR). The quality of the sound was almost eye
water painful. At times the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE is so loud
it almost takes on a physical presence and I can't believe noone else
can hear it.
Which of course they can't. It's all in my head.
At times it takes on a ringing like being cuffed in the ear.
And get togethers with the extended family is always a joy. Their full
blooded Italians from the old country. They make so much frigging noise
I can't stand it. Within a half hour I'm ready to ... do something unsocial.
I would suggest wearing hearing protection, unless you don't want to
have a quiet moment again. Ever.
PS: Wife and I have changed health insurence so I'm going to start the
roundy rounds with a new set of doctors. Lets see if I can get this set
to do anything.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)