Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of Minwax
Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several years
old. For my 20 year old summer pine picnic table. Every other year or so I
scape and sand, sometimes to bare wood on a great portion, but its always a
hassle, iirc the book Understand by Flexner talks about a chemical for
removal of finish like this this and I think the main chemical component is
MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but I forget the details. I believe it was said
to be unobtainable, but I do think I have seen some form of this chemical
component in a variety of things, like pvc or abs glue for a guess, and I
have always thought of finding out if there is some way to get me a good
stripper for this job one day. Ok, I checked, the "Oatey ABS Cement" says
"Contains Methyl ethyl ketone", and the "Oatey PVC Cement" says "Contains
Methyl ethyl ketone, Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin, Cyclohexanone. I have
never tried either of these, and don't know what would happen. I have tried
but anything chemical I have ever tried has always fallen short of being
advantageous, sort of dissolves but can't cut it. So for the dozenth time I
have a cabinet scaper (still can't sharpn it yet), paint scraper, putty
knife, sand paper (by hand and 1/3 sheet vibration m/c). I have learned over
the years that the liquid chlorine (~$10/ 50L from the pool store) does a
good job of bleaching white any of the bare wood that has darkened, possibly
due to water. But its the same old time-consuming labour grind for the poly
prep re&re. I ask now because all and every of the ~75 sq. ft. of pine
pieces are 100% apart, and I have a chance to make it right between the
cracks this the first year ever. So, any hopes of actually finding some help
with the removal via a chemical.
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NOTHING CUTS IT
Well I've done some scraping (claw scaper best) and sanding, and have tried
a few chemicals that are next to worthless. They sit on the surface, bubble
a bit, then when wiped off it just looks like a cleaning. They will just
melt a very thin top layer, but cannot cut down to the wood, kinda like a
spilled tequila. I am serious. Maybe after thirty coats (liters). I tried
the Oatey (with MEK) and $5 for 250mLLepage Poly Super Strippa extra
strength (with methylene chloride). Ive got half a dozen things with methyl
alcohol and the like, but its not even worth opening the bottle. Total
complete joke waste of time, as ever. Its much better to attack with tools
or sandpaper, no matter how affixed. Lots of labour and only half done. So
at least it wont be coming off anytime soon. So I say again to anyone who
needs to do this, good luck, youre going to need it.
FLUSHING THE CHLORINE (WONT STICK)
Next pertinent ngQuestion. Like I said, especially where there has been
water exposure (you know what black wood looks like). I have concentrated
liquid chlorine from a pool, and lots of it, cheap. It bleaches that black
to a very bright white-like. But in the past after the few times when I
have done this the poly does not want to stick to it very well. It
literally just flakes (falls) off not long after. So can anyone recommend a
procedure, or series or neutralizing chemicals, or soaps or anything please
do. I have tried a blast of water and drying, but its just flakey. I am
open to any suggestions, however primitive. I have not done this chlorine
bleach test enough to remember how much water and how fast it turns black,
so that the flush doesnèt ruin the bleaching effect, but again, after 25
years on this table its a black and white, with a little gray area. This
chlorine, which is stored indoors at pool stores in 6 foot Dia. by 12 foot
high plastic silo containers, if splashed on jeans (or anything) will turn
that spot white, threadbare like silk within a day, and soon be nothing but
a round hole.
What I did learn this year is that one of the 2x12x8 pine boards got rain &
snow soaked all through the winter and is water logged, and it strips much
more completely and easily than the dry boards. I know now how to make it
bright agian, but now I need to learn or experiment on how to make it hold a
finish after that treatment. Ideas, anybody: a little chemistry for a
dummy.
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Its tempting to try my sander but I don't know if I'll need to measure the
job by the sheet or by the machine. I have all 6 edges and another 30% of
the ten boards faces cleared so far, with a Richard paint scraper - great
tool, just keep sharpening with a file.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672873&bmUID=1214148628692&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443277345&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2jd7k.610$IL6.361@trnddc04...
>
> "bent" wrote:
>
>> NOTHING CUTS IT
>
>
> BET ME.
>
> I have a belt sander with 24 grit belts and a 6" ROS with 40 grit discs
> for clean up that will get to bare word in a hurry.
>
> Lew
>
>
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Make that all four edges (of all five boards) plus 22 of 72 total sq. ft.
cleared. So 50 sq. ft of face(s) left, in patches. Usually I'd just start
poly but I now have decades of dirty edges cleaned up and soon to be
brightened .
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I also have this 4-1/2" angle grinder, and the rubber pad accessory and a
half dozen round sandpaper disks. Anyone think this might be worth a try?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396674301&bmUID=1214150902531&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443285495&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true
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btw,
Who can and who can't see these links (Mastercraft 1/3 shit sander & 4-1/2"
angle grinder)? This is just an internet/pooter question I have often
wondered about; whether I am just posting to myself!?
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W/ a 60 grit I had I used the angle grinder in parallel back forth passes
(about 16"), once confident I could go back and do another fill-in random
board pass on the spots I missed. I haven't got to the final 1/3 sheet
sander yet but there may be an issue of having a 468 sided board, but its
definitely fastest/easiest to get it off, the AG is the way to go. After
the AG the $5 Richard paint scraper is great for the little bits. Its best
to get a leg on top of the board to hold it down while dragging the scraper.
Creates a lot of shavings when sharp, critical. I saw a carbide (1) tipped
scraper at Home Depot for $25. Dremel sanding cylinder great for the
umbrella holes. Yet to find oxalic acid or to Cl.
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On Jun 17, 12:55=A0am, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of Minwax
> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several years=
> old. For my 20 year old summer pine picnic table. Every other year or so I=
> scape and sand, sometimes to bare wood on a great portion, but its always =
a
> hassle, iirc the book Understand by Flexner talks about a chemical for
> removal of finish like this this and I think the main chemical component i=
s
> MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but I forget the details. I believe it was said=
> to be unobtainable, but I do think I have seen some form of this chemical
> component in a variety of things, like pvc or abs glue for a guess, and I
> have always thought of finding out if there is some way to get me a good
> stripper for this job one day. Ok, I checked, the "Oatey ABS Cement" says
> "Contains Methyl ethyl ketone", and the "Oatey PVC Cement" says "Contains
> Methyl ethyl ketone, Tetrahydrofuran, =A0PVC Resin, Cyclohexanone. =A0I ha=
ve
> never tried either of these, and don't know what would happen. =A0I have t=
ried
> but anything chemical I have ever tried has always fallen short of being
> advantageous, sort of dissolves but can't cut it. =A0So for the dozenth ti=
me I
> have a cabinet scaper (still can't sharpn it yet), paint scraper, putty
> knife, sand paper (by hand and 1/3 sheet vibration m/c). I have learned ov=
er
> the years that the liquid chlorine (~$10/ 50L from the pool store) does a
> good job of bleaching white any of the bare wood that has darkened, possib=
ly
> due to water. But its the same old time-consuming labour grind for the pol=
y
> prep re&re. I ask now because all and every of the ~75 sq. ft. of pine
> pieces are 100% apart, and I have a chance to make it right between the
> cracks this the first year ever. So, any hopes of actually finding some he=
lp
> with the removal via a chemical.
>
> ----=3D=3D Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet=
News=3D=3D----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World=
! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----=3D East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =
=3D----
You need a good paint remover Methelene chloride I think is the
ingrediant
"bent" wrote:
> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of
> Minwax
> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several
> years
> old.
<snip>
Your basic paint remover is basically Sodium Hydroxide (Noah) AKA:
"Caustic", with an inert carrier.
It should be neutralized when finished with acid, usually phosphoric,
and finally water..
If you not careful, caustic will soften the pulpy part of the wood
being cleaned. Don't leave on and forget about it.
I'd start with so 60 grit to cut thru the dirt and the bulk of the
varnish, then use NaOH.
The commercial paint removers will have a carrier to hold them in
place.
Apply with a chip brush.
BTW, SFWIW, acetone is probably the most powerful of all the keytones.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a commercially available stripper that is favored by the
> aircraft industry to strip mutiple coats of Imron and other high
> performance coatings.
>
> It is a deadly concoction of Sodium Hydroxide, MEK, Acetone, some
> kind
> of Benzine, Alcohol, and other goodies. It is the nastiest stuff I
> have used to date, available to commercial accounts only. It will
> actually eat into lower quality latex gloves.
"Benzene" is enough to get the stuff restricted.
Way back when, Rochester Products offered a carb cleaner to clean up a
gummed up carb.
Remove the air cleaner and pour it right down the carb while running
at a fast idle.
Did a great job cleaning carbs, but oh the effects on the environment.
Lew
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> NOTHING CUTS IT
> Well I've done some scraping (claw scaper best) and sanding, and have
> tried a few chemicals that are next to worthless. They sit on the
> surface, bubble a bit, then when wiped off it just looks like a cleaning.
> They will just melt a very thin top layer, but cannot cut down to the
> wood, kinda like a spilled tequila. I am serious. Maybe after thirty
> coats (liters). I tried the Oatey (with MEK) and $5 for 250mLLepage Poly
> Super Strippa extra strength (with methylene chloride). Ive got half a
> dozen things with methyl alcohol and the like, but its not even worth
> opening the bottle. Total complete joke waste of time, as ever. Its much
> better to attack with tools or sandpaper, no matter how affixed. Lots of
> labour and only half done. So at least it wont be coming off anytime
> soon. So I say again to anyone who needs to do this, good luck, youre
> going to need it.
>
> FLUSHING THE CHLORINE (WONT STICK)
> Next pertinent ngQuestion. Like I said, especially where there has been
> water exposure (you know what black wood looks like). I have concentrated
> liquid chlorine from a pool, and lots of it, cheap. It bleaches that
> black to a very bright white-like. But in the past after the few times
> when I have done this the poly does not want to stick to it very well. It
> literally just flakes (falls) off not long after. So can anyone recommend
> a procedure, or series or neutralizing chemicals, or soaps or anything
> please do. I have tried a blast of water and drying, but its just flakey.
> I am open to any suggestions, however primitive. I have not done this
> chlorine bleach test enough to remember how much water and how fast it
> turns black, so that the flush doesnèt ruin the bleaching effect, but
> again, after 25 years on this table its a black and white, with a little
> gray area. This chlorine, which is stored indoors at pool stores in 6
> foot Dia. by 12 foot high plastic silo containers, if splashed on jeans
> (or anything) will turn that spot white, threadbare like silk within a
> day, and soon be nothing but a round hole.
>
> What I did learn this year is that one of the 2x12x8 pine boards got rain
> & snow soaked all through the winter and is water logged, and it strips
> much more completely and easily than the dry boards. I know now how to
> make it bright agian, but now I need to learn or experiment on how to make
> it hold a finish after that treatment. Ideas, anybody: a little chemistry
> for a dummy.
To remove black stains on wood due to water exposure, try oxalic acid.
You can get this as deck brightener. Just look at the ingredients to be
sure. Assuming the black stains are not due to mold, they are due to the
reaction between the tannins in the wood and iron. Oxalic acid destroys the
complex so the black disappears.
As for the finish strippers not working perfectly the first time, you
have to keep at it. The bubbling suggests that they are working. No one
ever said, expect perhaps for the stripper salespeople, that stripping a
finish is easy and quick.
Good Luck.
On Jun 17, 2:57 am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your basic paint remover is basically Sodium Hydroxide (Noah) AKA:
> "Caustic", with an inert carrier.
I have a commercially available stripper that is favored by the
aircraft industry to strip mutiple coats of Imron and other high
performance coatings.
It is a deadly concoction of Sodium Hydroxide, MEK, Acetone, some kind
of Benzine, Alcohol, and other goodies. It is the nastiest stuff I
have used to date, available to commercial accounts only. It will
actually eat into lower quality latex gloves.
I was using it to strip a door that had a couple of coats of spar,
then a couple of coats of poly on top of that. It ate through in one
coat of stripper in a lot of places!
I brushed against the door when I was coating it and got that stuff on
myself. I felt it burn a bit, but thought "as soon as I coat this
side and cover, I'll rinse it off". Fifteen minutes later I had a
burn on my arm that was surprisingly bad, and I couldn't get it to
stop burning. A couple of days later the skin fell off, and I still
have a scar today to remind me to be more careful.
On the other hand, I have tried the soy based stuff, the fruit acid
based stuff, and anything else I could try, and nothing works nearly
as well as the highly toxic, flammable, poisonous fumed,
environmentally dangerous stuff.
Go figure.
But I will say this - if I only have 2 - 3 coat of finish to remove I
use the Bix. The other stuff scares me.
Robert
bent wrote:
> btw,
>
> Who can and who can't see these links (Mastercraft 1/3 shit sander &
> 4-1/2" angle grinder)? This is just an internet/pooter question I have
> often wondered about; whether I am just posting to myself!?
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
OK you got me to giggle.
j4
"bent" wrote:
> Its tempting to try my sander but I don't know if I'll need to
> measure the job by the sheet or by the machine. I have all 6 edges
> and another 30% of the ten boards faces cleared so far, with a
> Richard paint scraper - great tool, just keep sharpening with a
> file.
Getting rid of an old finish is a total PITA job, IMHO.
My comment about a belt sander was to use it to "break" the finish so
that chemical strippers would have an easier job of getting the task
finished.
I was going to mention a 4", right angle, sander; I have spent a lot
of time with one equipped with 24 grit discs.
Does a great job of cleaning and shaping; however, using it is an
acquired skill.
Just like a belt sander, it can totally destroy a surface, if you are
not careful.
Learn to use it on scrap.
Since you are this far along, my suggestion is to keep that file handy
or buy a carbide paint scraper.
Have fun.
Lew
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> NOTHING CUTS IT
> Well I've done some scraping (claw scaper best) and sanding, and have
> tried a few chemicals that are next to worthless. They sit on the
> surface, bubble a bit, then when wiped off it just looks like a
> cleaning. They will just melt a very thin top layer, but cannot cut
> down to the wood, kinda like a spilled tequila. I am serious. Maybe
> after thirty coats (liters). I tried the Oatey (with MEK) and $5 for
> 250mLLepage Poly Super Strippa extra strength (with methylene
> chloride). Ive got half a dozen things with methyl alcohol and the
> like, but its not even worth opening the bottle. Total complete joke
> waste of time, as ever. Its much better to attack with tools or
> sandpaper, no matter how affixed. Lots of labour and only half done.
> So at least it wont be coming off anytime soon. So I say again to
> anyone who needs to do this, good luck, youre going to need it.
That's pretty much the way strippers work. They all brag about removing
23 layers of paint at once, but I've never seen it in real life. I've
also noticed that they work better on paint than on
varnish/lacquer/polyurethane.
If the stripper dries out before you scrape, you've wasted your time.
You might try putting on a really thick coat of a gel-type stripper,
then covering it with something like aluminum foil to keep it from
evaporating. That will allow the solvents to work longer.
I've had the best luck with those that contain methlyene chloride.
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> FLUSHING THE CHLORINE (WONT STICK)
> Next pertinent ngQuestion. Like I said, especially where there has
> been water exposure (you know what black wood looks like). I have
> concentrated liquid chlorine from a pool, and lots of it, cheap. It
> bleaches that black to a very bright white-like. But in the past
> after the few times when I have done this the poly does not want to
> stick to it very well. It literally just flakes (falls) off not long
> after. So can anyone recommend a procedure, or series or
> neutralizing chemicals, or soaps or anything please do. I have tried
> a blast of water and drying, but its just flakey. I am open to any
> suggestions, however primitive. I have not done this chlorine bleach
> test enough to remember how much water and how fast it turns black,
> so that the flush doesnt ruin the bleaching effect, but again, after
> 25 years on this table its a black and white, with a little gray
> area. This chlorine, which is stored indoors at pool stores in 6
> foot Dia. by 12 foot high plastic silo containers, if splashed on
> jeans (or anything) will turn that spot white, threadbare like silk
> within a day, and soon be nothing but a round hole.
>
> What I did learn this year is that one of the 2x12x8 pine boards got
> rain & snow soaked all through the winter and is water logged, and it
> strips much more completely and easily than the dry boards. I know
> now how to make it bright agian, but now I need to learn or
> experiment on how to make it hold a finish after that treatment.
> Ideas, anybody: a little chemistry for a dummy.
The chlorine oxidizes the mildew to remove the black stain; it also
oxidizes the wood, leaving a surface layer that's probably similar to
ashes (that's also oxidized wood). I would sand the surface after
bleaching it.
--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX
I had a similar problem when I wanted to strip a table top of a botched job
of Flecto Varathane. The mfgr wasn't very helpful ("Just sand it off", the
say). I used a propane tourch with a flame spreader to soften the finish,
then scraped it off with a gasket scraper (like a putty knife but
thicker/stiffer). A heat gun would work too, but I don't have one. You
have to be *very* careful and go slowly. Have a large wet towel handy in
case you get things too hot. Go slowly and don't over heat. Mine was a
fairly thick application and it came off in one layer.
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of Minwax
> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several years
> old. For my 20 year old summer pine picnic table. Every other year or so I
> scape and sand, sometimes to bare wood on a great portion, but its always
> a hassle, iirc the book Understand by Flexner talks about a chemical for
> removal of finish like this this and I think the main chemical component
> is MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but I forget the details. I believe it was
> said to be unobtainable, but I do think I have seen some form of this
> chemical component in a variety of things, like pvc or abs glue for a
> guess, and I have always thought of finding out if there is some way to
> get me a good stripper for this job one day. Ok, I checked, the "Oatey ABS
> Cement" says "Contains Methyl ethyl ketone", and the "Oatey PVC Cement"
> says "Contains Methyl ethyl ketone, Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin,
> Cyclohexanone. I have never tried either of these, and don't know what
> would happen. I have tried but anything chemical I have ever tried has
> always fallen short of being advantageous, sort of dissolves but can't cut
> it. So for the dozenth time I have a cabinet scaper (still can't sharpn
> it yet), paint scraper, putty knife, sand paper (by hand and 1/3 sheet
> vibration m/c). I have learned over the years that the liquid chlorine
> (~$10/ 50L from the pool store) does a good job of bleaching white any of
> the bare wood that has darkened, possibly due to water. But its the same
> old time-consuming labour grind for the poly prep re&re. I ask now because
> all and every of the ~75 sq. ft. of pine pieces are 100% apart, and I have
> a chance to make it right between the cracks this the first year ever. So,
> any hopes of actually finding some help with the removal via a chemical.
>
Hello bent,
I appears that you are over analyzing the project. It is really much
more simple than you might think.
1) Clean the table. First, brush off all the loose dirt. Then, use warm,
not hot, water containing Dawn dishwashing liquid, one capful per gallon. I
like Dawn since it has a neutral pH but any dishwashing liquid will work.
Don't saturate the table, use just enough to do the job with clean rags.
Rinse off with fresh water. Again, do not saturate the table. Wipe down to
dry. Now, go over the table with odorless mineral spirits. Use lots of
clean rags. You can saturate the table if you like but it really isn't
necessary. Allow to dry. The purpose of this step is to get the dirt off
the surface that can interfere with penetration of the finish stripper.
2) Apply a good finish stripper. You do not need a caustic stripper. Find
a paste one that has methylene chloride. This is a fast and strong
stripper. Other strippers will either work very slowly or are so corrosive
/ caustic that you might actually damage the wood. Read the ingredients so
you can pick the right one. A very rough rule of thumb is to use the
heaviest one you can find. Methylene chloride is denser than any of the
other organic solvents that are used in finish strippers. It is even more
dense than water. It is also more dense than the waxes used in the paste
strippers. The heaviest can, assuming equal volumes, will probably contain
the most methylene chloride. Apply the stripper with a brush or rag and
don't be stingy with it.
3) After allowing the stripper to sit as per the instructions on the can,
scrape it off. You can use a plastic or metal tool. I like plastic since
it is less likely to accidentally gouge the wood.
4) Without any wiping, apply a second coating of stripper. Let it do its
thing and scrape it off again.
5) Go over the piece with #1 or #2 steel wool or the equivalent ScotchBrite
pad. Saturate the wool or pad with stripper to do this. The idea is to
remove the last traces of finish without scratching the wood to any great
degree. You should go over the whole piece to make sure it is evenly
rubbed.
6) Wipe down the piece with lots of clean rags and then with mineral spirits
to remove any residual wax. I like to use a 1/1/2 (v/v/v) solution of
alcohol / acetone / toluene. This not only removes the wax but it keeps any
residual finish from readhering (sp?) to the piece.
7) Admire your work.
Remember to pay attention to all the safety warnings - lots of
ventilation, no open flames, use gloves, eye protection, etc.
Good luck.
On Jun 17, 12:55 am, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of Minwax
> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several years
> old. For my 20 year old summer pine picnic table. Every other year or so I
> scape and sand, sometimes to bare wood on a great portion, but its always a
> hassle, iirc the book Understand by Flexner talks about a chemical for
> removal of finish like this this and I think the main chemical component is
> MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but I forget the details. I believe it was said
> to be unobtainable, but I do think I have seen some form of this chemical
> component in a variety of things, like pvc or abs glue for a guess, and I
> have always thought of finding out if there is some way to get me a good
> stripper for this job one day. Ok, I checked, the "Oatey ABS Cement" says
> "Contains Methyl ethyl ketone", and the "Oatey PVC Cement" says "Contains
> Methyl ethyl ketone, Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin, Cyclohexanone. I have
> never tried either of these, and don't know what would happen. I have tried
> but anything chemical I have ever tried has always fallen short of being
> advantageous, sort of dissolves but can't cut it. So for the dozenth time I
> have a cabinet scaper (still can't sharpn it yet), paint scraper, putty
> knife, sand paper (by hand and 1/3 sheet vibration m/c). I have learned over
> the years that the liquid chlorine (~$10/ 50L from the pool store) does a
> good job of bleaching white any of the bare wood that has darkened, possibly
> due to water. But its the same old time-consuming labour grind for the poly
> prep re&re. I ask now because all and every of the ~75 sq. ft. of pine
> pieces are 100% apart, and I have a chance to make it right between the
> cracks this the first year ever. So, any hopes of actually finding some help
> with the removal via a chemical.
>
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If you have that much finish on the wood, and you have the great
fortune of having the table in pieces, I would seriously consider
running them through my board planer. You would have your table
cleaned up in no time.
If you strip, you need to wash the project off to get the dirt off the
surface. Dirt absorbs the moisture in the chemical strippers and
dries out the liquid so the stripper won't work nearly as long as it
should.
This stuff is a combo of MEK and industrial grade alcohol and works
pretty well:
http://www.bixmfg.com/bix_stripper.htm
For a couple of tips on the refinishing procedure, look here:
http://tinyurl.com/59aya9
There is plenty more on the net.
If I had the table to refinish, I would wash it well, let it dry, and
since there is no patina to worry about I would the finish with 80
grit (not to the wood) and knock off all I could. Then I would strip,
then sand to perfectly bare wood. Finish as you like.
Remember, when refinishing that your end result will only be as good
as your prep. Wash off the stripped project with some low grade
lacquer thinner (I find mineral spirits streaks) to make sure it is
clean. Sand it to perfection, just like you would a new project.
Clean again, then finish.
Your poly will adhere to itself in multiple coats if you do it all at
once while the piece stays clean. But poly doesn't adhere well when
it is put over a fully cured coating - it isn't supposed to.
I don't know why you would have to keep finishing your project, but if
you get a good seal coat on it and about 4 - 5 mils of cured spar on
it
it should last many years with you simply washing the dirt off with a
hose every once in a while.
Robert
bent wrote:
> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of
> Minwax
> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several
> years
> old. For my 20 year old summer pine picnic table. Every other year
> or
> so I
> scape and sand, sometimes to bare wood on a great portion, but its
> always a
> hassle, iirc the book Understand by Flexner talks about a chemical
> for
> removal of finish like this this and I think the main chemical
> component is
> MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but I forget the details. I believe it
> was
> said
> to be unobtainable, but I do think I have seen some form of this
> chemical
> component in a variety of things, like pvc or abs glue for a guess,
> and I
> have always thought of finding out if there is some way to get me a
> good
> stripper for this job one day. Ok, I checked, the "Oatey ABS Cement"
> says
> "Contains Methyl ethyl ketone", and the "Oatey PVC Cement" says
> "Contains
> Methyl ethyl ketone, Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin, Cyclohexanone. I
> have
> never tried either of these, and don't know what would happen. I
> have tried
> but anything chemical I have ever tried has always fallen short of
> being
> advantageous, sort of dissolves but can't cut it. So for the
> dozenth
> time I
> have a cabinet scaper (still can't sharpn it yet), paint scraper,
> putty
> knife, sand paper (by hand and 1/3 sheet vibration m/c). I have
> learned over
> the years that the liquid chlorine (~$10/ 50L from the pool store)
> does a
> good job of bleaching white any of the bare wood that has darkened,
> possibly
> due to water. But its the same old time-consuming labour grind for
> the poly
> prep re&re. I ask now because all and every of the ~75 sq. ft. of
> pine
> pieces are 100% apart, and I have a chance to make it right between
> the
> cracks this the first year ever. So, any hopes of actually finding
> some help
> with the removal via a chemical.
Have you tried purpose-made paint stripper? Any paint store, home
center, or decent sized hardware store should have it in several
varieties. Get the smallest size they have, try it on a small area,
if it works then get enough for the whole job, if it doesn't work then
try a different brand until you find one that does. The trick is to
get it on thick enough and don't let it dry unless the label
specifically says that you should.
Read the label, follow all precautions, make sure you have the right
gloves and a set of chemical goggles--some paint strippers can give
you a nasty burn if you let them.
While I'm sure that there are MEK based strippers out there the most
common chemical used is methylene chloride.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
bent wrote:
> NOTHING CUTS IT
> Well I've done some scraping (claw scaper best) and sanding, and have
> tried a few chemicals that are next to worthless. They sit on the
> surface, bubble a bit, then when wiped off it just looks like a
> cleaning. They will just melt a very thin top layer, but cannot cut
> down to the wood, kinda like a spilled tequila. I am serious. Maybe
> after thirty coats (liters). I tried the Oatey (with MEK) and $5 for
> 250mLLepage Poly Super Strippa extra strength (with methylene
> chloride). Ive got half a dozen things with methyl alcohol and the
> like, but its not even worth opening the bottle. Total complete joke
> waste of time, as ever.
I've used Strypeeze (meth. chl.) and never had difficulty removing old
finish. It has to be used properly - thick, not brushed out, away from
direct sunlight and breeze. It takes varnish off more quickly than it
does paint. Use a scraper to remove the softened gunk and apply again.
20-30 min. generally is fine. After last scraping, I usually apply
stripper again, scrub with steel wool, scrape that off and end by
scrubbing with steel wool and mineral spirits. Wife off last of that
and let it dry.
> Its much better to attack with tools or sandpaper, no matter how
> affixed. Lots of labour and only half done. So at least it wont be
> coming off anytime soon. So I say again to anyone who needs to do
> this, good luck, youre going to need it.
>
> FLUSHING THE CHLORINE (WONT STICK)
> Next pertinent ngQuestion. Like I said, especially where there has
> been water exposure (you know what black wood looks like). I have
> concentrated liquid chlorine from a pool, and lots of it, cheap. It
I've read that the black stain in wood is from iron compounds
oxidizing. Also read a tip about using rust remover to remove this type
of stain, but have never tried it.
> bleaches that black to a very bright white-like. But in the past
> after the few times when I have done this the poly does not want to
> stick to it very well. It literally just flakes (falls) off not long
> after. So can anyone recommend a procedure, or series or neutralizing
> chemicals, or soaps or anything please do. I have tried a blast of
> water and drying, but its just flakey. I am open to any suggestions,
> however primitive. I have not done this chlorine bleach test enough
> to remember how much water and how fast it turns black, so that the
> flush doesnèt ruin the bleaching effect, but again, after 25 years on
> this table its a black and white, with a little gray area. This
> chlorine, which is stored indoors at pool stores in 6 foot Dia. by 12
> foot high plastic silo containers, if splashed on jeans (or anything)
> will turn that spot white, threadbare like silk within a day, and soon
> be nothing but a round hole.
>
> What I did learn this year is that one of the 2x12x8 pine boards got
> rain & snow soaked all through the winter and is water logged, and it
> strips much more completely and easily than the dry boards. I know
> now how to make it bright agian, but now I need to learn or experiment
> on how to make it hold a finish after that treatment. Ideas, anybody:
> a little chemistry for a dummy.
>
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"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
>"bent" wrote:
>
>> Is there a good chemical for helping to remove a few layers of
>> Minwax
>> Helmsman Spar Urethane clear Satin finish that may be one to several
>> years
>> old.
><snip>
>
>Your basic paint remover is basically Sodium Hydroxide (Noah) AKA:
NaOH.
scott
Steve wrote:
>"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>
>
>>NOTHING CUTS IT
>>Well I've done some scraping (claw scaper best) and sanding, and have
>>tried a few chemicals that are next to worthless. They sit on the
>>surface, bubble a bit, then when wiped off it just looks like a
>>cleaning. They will just melt a very thin top layer, but cannot cut
>>down to the wood, kinda like a spilled tequila. I am serious. Maybe
>>after thirty coats (liters). I tried the Oatey (with MEK) and $5 for
>>250mLLepage Poly Super Strippa extra strength (with methylene
>>chloride). Ive got half a dozen things with methyl alcohol and the
>>like, but its not even worth opening the bottle. Total complete joke
>>waste of time, as ever. Its much better to attack with tools or
>>sandpaper, no matter how affixed. Lots of labour and only half done.
>> So at least it wont be coming off anytime soon. So I say again to
>>anyone who needs to do this, good luck, youre going to need it.
>>
>>
>
>That's pretty much the way strippers work. They all brag about removing
>23 layers of paint at once, but I've never seen it in real life. I've
>also noticed that they work better on paint than on
>varnish/lacquer/polyurethane.
>
>
>
In my experience, varnish loosens more quickly but tends to remain in a
"sheet" more than paint.
When I am doing a large project of removing paint, I scrape off the mess
from the first application, into a coffee
can, and reuse it on another area. It is ugly and messy, but doesn't
seem to loose strength.
>If the stripper dries out before you scrape, you've wasted your time.
>You might try putting on a really thick coat of a gel-type stripper,
>then covering it with something like aluminum foil to keep it from
>evaporating. That will allow the solvents to work longer.
>
>I've had the best luck with those that contain methlyene chloride.
>
>
>
Methylene chloride semi-paste is the only way to go, IMO. If not
applied thickly, it will dry
before it loosens the finish. There is nothing in the way of finishes
that I have found that will
not be taken off if used properly.