Kitchen door panel inserts rattle

On Apr 22, 9:26 am, wklkj <[email protected]> wrote:
> One more post on this huge project (for me).
>
> I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new
> doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on
> this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and
> suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket
> hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't
> imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait
> for it to dry. What a great timesaver!
>
> Anyway, here's my question for now:
>
> I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
> plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
> already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
> closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix
> this? Here's some things I've tried already:
> I tried gluing in the panel during assembly but they seem to break
> free of the wood glue. Also, the glue tended to 'seep' out of the
> slot on some and created a mess so I stopped using it.
> I looked to 'tuck' something soft into the gap but the gap isn't very
> wide.
> I'm thinking that clear silicone caulk that remains soft may be the
> answer but I'm at a loss as to how to go about getting it into the
> tiny slot.
> Rockler has something I probably should have used but didn't know
> about at the time. They're called rubber space balls and I guess you
> drop a few into the slots before putting the panel in and they
> compress. Oh well. I know you guys will have an easy answer to
> this.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone wants to see before and after shots,
> I'll be happy to provide.
>
> By the way, if anyone's interested, I decided to use the Minwax "Wipe-
> on" polyurethane. All I can say is it was much easier to use than
> brushing on. As an amature, I think the finished product looks much
> better and easier. I know a lot of you guys probably spray the finish
> but I don't have the equipment or the space to do it.
>
> Finally, best tools I bought for the project:
> Kreg pocket hole system - by far the best $100 I've spent in a long
> time.
> Porter Cable 1/4" staple (air powered). All I had was a brad nailer
> that was punching through all the thin material. The staple gun is
> extremely handy for only $100.
>
> I already have a Grizzly table saw and a Dewalt 12" miter saw.
>
> The reason I'm saying all this is because if anyone is thinking of
> doing a kitchen refacing project themselves but are a little
> nervous...it can be done. The most difficult part is starting. Also,
> find a good lumber yard instead of Lowes or Home Depot for your
> hardwood.
>
> Thanks again! Now, how do I stop the darn rattling??? :)

I'm afraid it's a little late to help you on this project, but it may
help next time. Instead of using undersized 1/4" panels use 3/8"
panels and run dados on the four sides of the panels to the exact
width of the groove in the stiles and rails. I think Norm showed this
technique on a recent show. It will produce a much sturdier door.
Joe G

> Good suggestion prior to assembly. Now he needs to shim or add a drop of
> glue here and there on the back side.

I wonder if a little Gorilla glue might work, in dabs spread around
the back of the panel? I know the foaming action as it cures is not
structurally strong, but it does expand, and maybe it would keep the
panel from rattling. The dried foam isn't too hard to scrape off.
Andy

wklkj wrote:

| I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
| plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
| already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
| closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to
| fix this?

If the doors are already glued, I'd be tempted to drill 1/16" holes
from the back into the bottom of the grooves holding the plywood
panels and use a caulking gun to shoot a very small amount (not enough
to be visible at the top of the groove) of clear silicone caulk into
the groove.

I'd cut the caulk cartridge tip so that the opening is only a 1/16"
and do immediate clean-up with solvent.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

The auto parts stores sell tubes of Windshield Gasket Repair silicone. This
stuff is clear and thinner than the silicone that is readily available. Lay
the door face down on the bench and squeeze a small dab of this into the
crack between the panel and rail in several places around the frame. The
small nozzle on the tube should allow you get the silicone into the crack
quite easily as it is intended for sealing between the rubber window gasket
and the glass of a car windshield. Paint thinner on a rag should help you
clean up any excess that you get on the door. Let it dry overnight before
you stand the door up or it may run out of the crack (like I said - it's
thinner than the normally found silicone).

--
Charley


"wklkj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One more post on this huge project (for me).
>
> I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new
> doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on
> this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and
> suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket
> hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't
> imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait
> for it to dry. What a great timesaver!
>
> Anyway, here's my question for now:
>
> I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
> plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
> already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
> closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix
> this? Here's some things I've tried already:
> I tried gluing in the panel during assembly but they seem to break
> free of the wood glue. Also, the glue tended to 'seep' out of the
> slot on some and created a mess so I stopped using it.
> I looked to 'tuck' something soft into the gap but the gap isn't very
> wide.
> I'm thinking that clear silicone caulk that remains soft may be the
> answer but I'm at a loss as to how to go about getting it into the
> tiny slot.
> Rockler has something I probably should have used but didn't know
> about at the time. They're called rubber space balls and I guess you
> drop a few into the slots before putting the panel in and they
> compress. Oh well. I know you guys will have an easy answer to
> this.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone wants to see before and after shots,
> I'll be happy to provide.
>
> By the way, if anyone's interested, I decided to use the Minwax "Wipe-
> on" polyurethane. All I can say is it was much easier to use than
> brushing on. As an amature, I think the finished product looks much
> better and easier. I know a lot of you guys probably spray the finish
> but I don't have the equipment or the space to do it.
>
> Finally, best tools I bought for the project:
> Kreg pocket hole system - by far the best $100 I've spent in a long
> time.
> Porter Cable 1/4" staple (air powered). All I had was a brad nailer
> that was punching through all the thin material. The staple gun is
> extremely handy for only $100.
>
> I already have a Grizzly table saw and a Dewalt 12" miter saw.
>
> The reason I'm saying all this is because if anyone is thinking of
> doing a kitchen refacing project themselves but are a little
> nervous...it can be done. The most difficult part is starting. Also,
> find a good lumber yard instead of Lowes or Home Depot for your
> hardwood.
>
> Thanks again! Now, how do I stop the darn rattling??? :)
>

"leonard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> space balls
>


Good suggestion prior to assembly. Now he needs to shim or add a drop of
glue here and there on the back side.

See if there is a silicone product with a small pointed nozzle. Force
a small dab into the crack.

I didn't notice the word "finished".... oops

NO SPACE BALLS for you... get the shims out.

Leon wrote:


> That would work, but probably not very well as you would need to know
> exactly where the gap between the panel and the bottoms of the slots are to
> drill in the correct location.
>
> Before assembly the Space Balls are great. They are helpful in preventing
> rattles and help to keep a raised panel centered.
>
> And I was ribbing Pat. ;~)
>
>

space balls


"wklkj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One more post on this huge project (for me).
>
> I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new
> doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on
> this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and
> suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket
> hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't
> imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait
> for it to dry. What a great timesaver!
>
> Anyway, here's my question for now:
>
> I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
> plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
> already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
> closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix
> this? Here's some things I've tried already:
> I tried gluing in the panel during assembly but they seem to break
> free of the wood glue. Also, the glue tended to 'seep' out of the
> slot on some and created a mess so I stopped using it.
> I looked to 'tuck' something soft into the gap but the gap isn't very
> wide.
> I'm thinking that clear silicone caulk that remains soft may be the
> answer but I'm at a loss as to how to go about getting it into the
> tiny slot.
> Rockler has something I probably should have used but didn't know
> about at the time. They're called rubber space balls and I guess you
> drop a few into the slots before putting the panel in and they
> compress. Oh well. I know you guys will have an easy answer to
> this.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone wants to see before and after shots,
> I'll be happy to provide.
>
> By the way, if anyone's interested, I decided to use the Minwax "Wipe-
> on" polyurethane. All I can say is it was much easier to use than
> brushing on. As an amature, I think the finished product looks much
> better and easier. I know a lot of you guys probably spray the finish
> but I don't have the equipment or the space to do it.
>
> Finally, best tools I bought for the project:
> Kreg pocket hole system - by far the best $100 I've spent in a long
> time.
> Porter Cable 1/4" staple (air powered). All I had was a brad nailer
> that was punching through all the thin material. The staple gun is
> extremely handy for only $100.
>
> I already have a Grizzly table saw and a Dewalt 12" miter saw.
>
> The reason I'm saying all this is because if anyone is thinking of
> doing a kitchen refacing project themselves but are a little
> nervous...it can be done. The most difficult part is starting. Also,
> find a good lumber yard instead of Lowes or Home Depot for your
> hardwood.
>
> Thanks again! Now, how do I stop the darn rattling??? :)
>

> If the doors are already glued, I'd be tempted to drill 1/16" holes
> from the back into the bottom of the grooves holding the plywood
> panels and use a caulking gun .........


This might work, and a Glue Syringe might be a better choice. Most come
with 3-4 different needles and the larger ones should work with silicone.
Just squirt the goo into the syringe from the tube and be careful not to
squeeze out around the panels. The resulting holes won't be any bigger than
a finish nail.


RonB

"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Good suggestion prior to assembly. Now he needs to shim or add a drop of
>> glue here and there on the back side.
>
> I wonder if a little Gorilla glue might work, in dabs spread around
> the back of the panel? I know the foaming action as it cures is not
> structurally strong, but it does expand, and maybe it would keep the
> panel from rattling. The dried foam isn't too hard to scrape off.
> Andy
>

That might work out OK providing the tight spots are easy to get into.

Yeah - This is probably a better way than Silicone. Every time I open a
tube of the stuff I end up with it in my whiskers and everyplace.

RonB

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thin shims that will slide in on the back side with a little glue to hold
> them in place. They should be narrow enough that they disappear when you
> slide them in. Usually a few inches long, and less than 1/2" wide.
>
>
>

"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bad web site...
> Good products...
>
> http://www.fastcap.com/
>
> Space Balls...
>


Pat, how do you put the space balls in finished doors? ;~)

> I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
> plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
> already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
> closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix
> this?

I think adding silicon or the like to the backs fo the panels is going to be
the easiest solution, but you will still see a small gap between the door
frames and the panels when you open the door. If you're okay with this,
then I think the best solution is to try what others have suggested and find
a way to either dab some silicon or slip in some very small shims.

But, for another suggestion, what I like to do on door panels is to put
quarter-round molding around the inside of the panels. This adds a very
nice touch, snugs up the panels and hides any gap between the panel and the
door frames. Typically, the quarter-round is 1/16" less than the distance
between the panel and the edge of the door. If your doors are 3/4" thick,
then you'd make the quarter-round 3/16". Make sense?

Since your doors are already finished, applying the moulding will be an
issue. Perhaps you could use a cabinet scraper to remove the finish from
the exposed edges of the door frame. Not the panel though because you don't
want the moulding to get glued to the panels. That would be bad when the
panels shrink/expand from humidity changes.

This solution would be a bit of work, but would look the best IMO when done.
But like I said in the beginning, the silicon slution is probably the
easiest.

Mike Dembroge
Dembroge Woodworks

[snip]

"Mike Dembroge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think adding silicon or the like to the backs fo the panels is going to
be
> the easiest solution, but you will still see a small gap between the door
> frames and the panels when you open the door. If you're okay with this,
> then I think the best solution is to try what others have suggested and
find
> a way to either dab some silicon or slip in some very small shims.

Silicon comes in different colours, with a little colour matching, there
really shouldn't be much space filling to notice.

Thin shims that will slide in on the back side with a little glue to hold
them in place. They should be narrow enough that they disappear when you
slide them in. Usually a few inches long, and less than 1/2" wide.

Bad web site...
Good products...

http://www.fastcap.com/

Space Balls...

wklkj wrote:

> One more post on this huge project (for me).
>
> I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new
> doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on
> this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and
> suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket
> hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't
> imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait
> for it to dry. What a great timesaver!
>
> Anyway, here's my question for now:
>
> I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak
> plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've
> already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self
> closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix
> this? Here's some things I've tried already:
> I tried gluing in the panel during assembly but they seem to break
> free of the wood glue. Also, the glue tended to 'seep' out of the
> slot on some and created a mess so I stopped using it.
> I looked to 'tuck' something soft into the gap but the gap isn't very
> wide.
> I'm thinking that clear silicone caulk that remains soft may be the
> answer but I'm at a loss as to how to go about getting it into the
> tiny slot.
> Rockler has something I probably should have used but didn't know
> about at the time. They're called rubber space balls and I guess you
> drop a few into the slots before putting the panel in and they
> compress. Oh well. I know you guys will have an easy answer to
> this.
>
> Thanks in advance. If anyone wants to see before and after shots,
> I'll be happy to provide.
>
> By the way, if anyone's interested, I decided to use the Minwax "Wipe-
> on" polyurethane. All I can say is it was much easier to use than
> brushing on. As an amature, I think the finished product looks much
> better and easier. I know a lot of you guys probably spray the finish
> but I don't have the equipment or the space to do it.
>
> Finally, best tools I bought for the project:
> Kreg pocket hole system - by far the best $100 I've spent in a long
> time.
> Porter Cable 1/4" staple (air powered). All I had was a brad nailer
> that was punching through all the thin material. The staple gun is
> extremely handy for only $100.
>
> I already have a Grizzly table saw and a Dewalt 12" miter saw.
>
> The reason I'm saying all this is because if anyone is thinking of
> doing a kitchen refacing project themselves but are a little
> nervous...it can be done. The most difficult part is starting. Also,
> find a good lumber yard instead of Lowes or Home Depot for your
> hardwood.
>
> Thanks again! Now, how do I stop the darn rattling??? :)
>

"Markem" <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> Not being Pat, how about drilling holes inserting them and plugging
> the holes. I am truly not being a smart ass, but would be a PITA to
> do.
>
> Mark
> (sixoneeight) = 618

That would work, but probably not very well as you would need to know
exactly where the gap between the panel and the bottoms of the slots are to
drill in the correct location.

Before assembly the Space Balls are great. They are helpful in preventing
rattles and help to keep a raised panel centered.

And I was ribbing Pat. ;~)

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:01:39 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Bad web site...
>> Good products...
>>
>> http://www.fastcap.com/
>>
>> Space Balls...
>>
>
>
>Pat, how do you put the space balls in finished doors? ;~)

Not being Pat, how about drilling holes inserting them and plugging
the holes. I am truly not being a smart ass, but would be a PITA to
do.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

"wklkj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One more post on this huge project (for me).
>
> I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new
> doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on
> this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and
> suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket
> hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't
> imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait
...........................

During assembly I've used either of two methods. One, the space balls.
I've only built a few items with them but they do seem to work. Trouble
with them is, if you are installing them in a groove larger than 1/4" (which
you're not), it can sometimes be problematic to keep them in place while
assembling. Two, I've used clear silicone caulk and just laid out beads on
a piece of waxed paper. Once dry, I have just set them into the groove.
That has worked well for me but kind of messy and time consuming, hence I've
tried the space balls. Since your doors are already built, I'm not sure
how you're going to get something down inside that groove. There are
syringe type glue dispensers available but trying to push silicone through
them might not be an option (I've used them with epoxy but for only a very
small amount and it worked, but not great). If everything is screwed
together and not glued, you might consider disassembling and going with the
silicone/space ball route and then reassembling. I'm sure someone will
come along with a better idea!
Cheers,
cc