I recently submitted a post inquiring about InternetLumber.com and if
anyone had experience with them. I promised to post my results of
ordering 100 BF of quarter sawn white oak. The wood arrived yesterday
within their advertised alloted times. Since I have no previous
experience ordering wood or buying 'fancy' wood, I can't speak for the
quality. I ordered and received it S3S. I measured each board and it
it came to about 93 BF. I expected BF loss during the S3S process.
I got one real nice 11 inch wide board, one 9 and one 7.5 inch. The
rest vary from 3 to 5.75 inches and there is a total of 24 boards all
between 9 and 10 feet long. Quality was advertised as FAS. There are no
large knots or other blimishes and only a few small blimishes. A
couple of the boards are bowed to the point that the SLR did not
traverse the entire length, leaving two unfinished edges on about 1/3
of the boards. But like I said I have no experience and receiving
some boards like that may be a normal part of the process from
anywhere. The price was competitive. They were supposed to ship to a
terminal but they shipped to my home instead. I emailed them shipping
instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
charged for home delivery. I can live with it. I relied on email and
phoning might have worked out better for ordering and relaying
instructions. In short, I'm happy that I received the lumber timely
and that it seems suitable for my project of doors and drawer faces for
my kitchen cabinets.
arw01 wrote:
> Mike:
>
> What is your all in cost per board foot?
>
> Did the order arrive on a pallet, or was it one long, heavy package?
>
> Alan
Hi Alan. The final cost per BF was $6.19 and broke down as: $4.29
rough cost plus $.30 for S3S plus $1.60 shipping. If the lumber had
been properly shipped to a terminal cost would have been about $.50 per
BF less. The closest I could have purchased it personally involved a
300 mile round trip and a rough cost of $5.17 a BF with no planning or
SLR option available. Taxes would have added about $40.00 and gasoline
about $35.00 so the costs ended up about even so I was pleased with the
cost. It was delivered on a pallet and I help unload it after it was
unbanded.
Mike
John L. Poole wrote:
> Mike in Arkansas wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > I emailed them shipping
> > instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
> > information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
> > charged for home delivery.
>
> They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
> delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
> their error.
>
> Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.
When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home
delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business
will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial
loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of
this. Jana
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2006 18:04:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> >John L. Poole wrote:
> >> Mike in Arkansas wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> > I emailed them shipping
> >> > instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
> >> > information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
> >> > charged for home delivery.
> >>
> >> They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
> >> delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
> >> their error.
> >>
> >> Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.
> >
> >When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home
> >delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business
> >will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial
> >loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of
> >this. Jana
>
> I've had several "partial load" shipments that I have picked up at the
> terminal. This includes two machinery shipments and one lumber shipment.
> Most recent was just over a month ago.
>
>
>
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
> Hi Mr. Johnson, We're doing well. Thank you. To Mark. If I remember correctly, you live in Az and are probably close to terminals. For the most part, it's just not done that way. I wish it was and I was. From Iowa, one company will take it part way and then it gets transferred to another. It then goes straight to the customer. The business drop is about the best I can come up with. I can honestly say that shipping companies profit more from our internet end of the business than we do. Residential delivery charge alone has gone up to a flat $95 and the fuel surcharges have steadily increased even if diesel goes down. We've had to resort to, whenever possible, combining orders in areas and hiring our own driver but that doesn't always work for the customer's time schedule. If anyone has any better ideas or experience on how to get lumber shipped cheap, I'd be very appreciative. Thanks, Jana
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
<<Note to "Mike in Arkansas " - how may boards where under 5" and what
percentage of net 93 board feet did they constitute? >>
15 of the 24 boards were less than 5 inches. Nine of those 15 are less
than 4 inches. A couple are at 3.25. I did look at the NHLA grading
guidelines for FAS and quartered FAS oak and it does appear that the
rule is 5 inches minimum width. However, I did get it S3S. That
includes a straight line rip. Is it possible a loss of up to 1.5
inches could be justified by this operation? That seems extreme to me
unless the original boards were badly warped (is that the correct
term,?)
Actual widths of the S3S boards I received were 4.5, 11, 3.75, 3.75,
5.0, 4.25, 3.75, 7.0, 9.5, 3.5, 3.75, 3.25, 4.5, 4.25, 3.75, 5.0, 5.75,
4.0, 4.0, 3.25, 5.25, 4.25, 6.5
As for terminal delivery, I have done that before. I agree with the
poster that says they prefer items to be picked up. They are not set
up for residential delivery. If you could have seen the Semi trying to
negotiate my cul-de-sac you might agree.
Dear Mike,
My name is Simon Briggs and I am the General Manager of InternetLumber,
another group reader alerted me to this post and some of the questions
you raised here. I would encourage you to call me if my response below
does not clarify your questions.
To clarify the grade it is FAS, as noted elsewhere on this posting
grading rules for quartersawn are more relaxed when it comes to width,
due to the ineffeceincy of the quartersawing process vs. plain/flat
sawing. Width requirements are based on the rough lumber so as you
noted the overall average is lower after straight line ripping. Based
on the widths you listed it appears you have one or two questionable
boards specifically the 3-3/4" Net board. If you would like to return
this lumber for an exchange to equivalent board footage in a wider
board please contact our office and we will be happy to assist you.
For the residential delivery issue I apologize for any misunderstanding
with my staff, they will research the issue and if you were charged for
residential delivery after requesting otherwise we will refund the
difference immediately. It would help if you could call or email me
your full name since I am not exactly sure who you are. My email is
simon (at) internetlumber (dot) com.
Thank you,
Simon
InternetLumber.com
336-499-0392
877-769-5747
Mike in Arkansas wrote:
> I recently submitted a post inquiring about InternetLumber.com and if
> anyone had experience with them. I promised to post my results of
> ordering 100 BF of quarter sawn white oak. The wood arrived yesterday
> within their advertised alloted times. Since I have no previous
> experience ordering wood or buying 'fancy' wood, I can't speak for the
> quality. I ordered and received it S3S. I measured each board and it
> it came to about 93 BF. I expected BF loss during the S3S process.
> I got one real nice 11 inch wide board, one 9 and one 7.5 inch. The
> rest vary from 3 to 5.75 inches and there is a total of 24 boards all
> between 9 and 10 feet long. Quality was advertised as FAS. There are no
> large knots or other blimishes and only a few small blimishes. A
> couple of the boards are bowed to the point that the SLR did not
> traverse the entire length, leaving two unfinished edges on about 1/3
> of the boards. But like I said I have no experience and receiving
> some boards like that may be a normal part of the process from
> anywhere. The price was competitive. They were supposed to ship to a
> terminal but they shipped to my home instead. I emailed them shipping
> instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
> information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
> charged for home delivery. I can live with it. I relied on email and
> phoning might have worked out better for ordering and relaying
> instructions. In short, I'm happy that I received the lumber timely
> and that it seems suitable for my project of doors and drawer faces for
> my kitchen cabinets.
not that it makes a huge differance if your ripping the stuff up for
styles and rails, but the claim of being F.A.S (which would reflect in
price) is untrue claim if there is wood less than 6" wide as the best
grade a 4" board can make is a select according to NHLA rules. national
hardwood lumber ass'n.
best regards
ross
www.highislandexport.com
[email protected] wrote:
> John L. Poole wrote:
>
>>Mike in Arkansas wrote:
>><snip>
>>
>>>I emailed them shipping
>>>instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
>>>information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
>>>charged for home delivery.
>>
>>They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
>>delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
>>their error.
>>
>>Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.
>
>
> When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home
> delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business
> will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial
> loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of
> this. Jana
>
I bought 200 bf of white oak (rift sawn, no blems) from Jana at
http://www.hartzellhardwoods.com/. Cost $2 a bf and another $2 a bf for
shipping to my house (yeah, I live in the sticks). I can recommend them
highly.
mahalo,
jo4hn
ps Hi Jana
How are you all doing?
John L. Poole wrote:
> Ross Hebeisen wrote:
>> not that it makes a huge differance if your ripping the stuff up for
>> styles and rails, but the claim of being F.A.S (which would reflect in
>> price) is untrue claim if there is wood less than 6" wide as the best
>> grade a 4" board can make is a select according to NHLA rules. national
>> hardwood lumber ass'n.
>> best regards
>> ross
>> www.highislandexport.com
>>
>
> Hmm... this becomes intriguing...
>
> The original post indicated "100 BF of quarter sawn white oak"
> "Quality was advertised as FAS."
>
> Some terms:
> FAS = First and Seconds.
> NHLA = National Hardwood Lumber Association.
> (http://www.natlhardwood.org_
> NWFA = National Wood Flooring Association
> (http://www.nwfa.org)
> ==============================
>
> http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/Rulebook.pdf
> From page 16 of the current Rulebook:
> FAS
> 53. Widths: 6" and wider.
> 54. Lengths: 8' to 16'.
>
> Then there is the section of "STANDARD INSPECTION BY SPECIES"
> which contains on page 31 "Quarter Sawn Red Oak, White Oak, and Locust"
> and notes:
>
> FAS: Standard, except:
> Widths 5" and wider; pieces 5" wide containing 3' and 4' surface
> measure shall be clear, pieces 5" wide containing 5' to 7' surface
> measure shall yield 11/12 (91-2/3%) clear face in one cutting.
>
> So, is it correct that any boards less than 5" width for quarter sawn
> oak are not FAS grade? Is there some other exception that would
> otherwise make the shipment conforming to FAS?
>
> I visited InternetLumber.com hoping to find an email so I could "cc"
> them for comment and I noticed that they state they are a member of the
> National Wood Flooring Association ("NWFA"). I visited NWFA's site
> hoping to find any grading specification, but was unable to locate such.
> I wondered if the discrepancy above is a result of different standards:
> NHLA vs. NWFA.
>
> Note to "Mike in Arkansas" - how may boards where under 5" and what
> percentage of net 93 board feet did they constitute?
I visited InternetLumber.com and submitting the following using their
Contact Form:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
A recent customer of yours posted his experience purchasing lumber from
you. I tried to submit the header to the posting in this form, but it
triggered an error by your form processor so I am resubmitting my
inquiry without including the header. The posting may be found on
rec.woodworking, dated 9/16/2006 with the subject line "Re:
InternetLumber.com"
Would you please comment; you will see I replied to his posting twice
and I amd contacting you as I would like to know why there appears to be
a discrepancy between the grade advertised and the grade delivered. I
fear I am missing something or the facts are not accurate. I encourage
you to respond, either by reply and/or posting to the newsgroup for the
matter now stands raising some serious questions.
Thank you.
John Poole
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ross Hebeisen wrote:
> not that it makes a huge differance if your ripping the stuff up for
> styles and rails, but the claim of being F.A.S (which would reflect in
> price) is untrue claim if there is wood less than 6" wide as the best
> grade a 4" board can make is a select according to NHLA rules. national
> hardwood lumber ass'n.
> best regards
> ross
> www.highislandexport.com
>
Hmm... this becomes intriguing...
The original post indicated "100 BF of quarter sawn white oak"
"Quality was advertised as FAS."
Some terms:
FAS = First and Seconds.
NHLA = National Hardwood Lumber Association.
(http://www.natlhardwood.org_
NWFA = National Wood Flooring Association
(http://www.nwfa.org)
==============================
http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/Rulebook.pdf
From page 16 of the current Rulebook:
FAS
53. Widths: 6" and wider.
54. Lengths: 8' to 16'.
Then there is the section of "STANDARD INSPECTION BY SPECIES"
which contains on page 31 "Quarter Sawn Red Oak, White Oak, and Locust"
and notes:
FAS: Standard, except:
Widths 5" and wider; pieces 5" wide containing 3' and 4' surface
measure shall be clear, pieces 5" wide containing 5' to 7' surface
measure shall yield 11/12 (91-2/3%) clear face in one cutting.
So, is it correct that any boards less than 5" width for quarter sawn
oak are not FAS grade? Is there some other exception that would
otherwise make the shipment conforming to FAS?
I visited InternetLumber.com hoping to find an email so I could "cc"
them for comment and I noticed that they state they are a member of the
National Wood Flooring Association ("NWFA"). I visited NWFA's site
hoping to find any grading specification, but was unable to locate such.
I wondered if the discrepancy above is a result of different
standards: NHLA vs. NWFA.
Note to "Mike in Arkansas" - how may boards where under 5" and what
percentage of net 93 board feet did they constitute?
because sawmills are primary manufacturers and the lumber coming off
them is graded according to NHLA rules, and flooring makers are
secondary processers, they are subject to buying their lumber on those
standards. if the flooring people have their own grade it would be on
their finish product not the raw material.
make sense? clear as mud right?
Ross
www.highislandexport.com
On 17 Sep 2006 18:04:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>John L. Poole wrote:
>> Mike in Arkansas wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> > I emailed them shipping
>> > instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
>> > information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
>> > charged for home delivery.
>>
>> They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
>> delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
>> their error.
>>
>> Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.
>
>When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home
>delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business
>will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial
>loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of
>this. Jana
I've had several "partial load" shipments that I have picked up at the
terminal. This includes two machinery shipments and one lumber shipment.
Most recent was just over a month ago.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On 18 Sep 2006 06:16:13 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>> On 17 Sep 2006 18:04:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >John L. Poole wrote:
>> >> Mike in Arkansas wrote:
>> >> <snip>
>> >>
>> >> > I emailed them shipping
>> >> > instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
>> >> > information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
>> >> > charged for home delivery.
>> >>
>> >> They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
>> >> delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
>> >> their error.
>> >>
>> >> Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.
>> >
>> >When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home
>> >delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business
>> >will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial
>> >loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of
>> >this. Jana
>>
>> I've had several "partial load" shipments that I have picked up at the
>> terminal. This includes two machinery shipments and one lumber shipment.
>> Most recent was just over a month ago.
>>
>> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
>> Hi Mr. Johnson, We're doing well. Thank you. To Mark. If I remember correctly, you live in Az and are probably close to terminals. For the most part, it's just not done that way. I wish it was and I was. From Iowa, one company will take it part way and then it gets transferred to another. It then goes straight to the customer. The business drop is about the best I can come up with. I can honestly say that shipping companies profit more from our internet end of the business than we do. Residential delivery charge alone has gone up to a flat $95 and the fuel surcharges have steadily increased even if diesel goes down. We've had to resort to, whenever possible, combining orders in areas and hiring our own driver but that doesn't always work for the customer's time schedule. If anyone has any better ideas or experience on how to get lumber shipped cheap, I'd be very appreciative. Thanks, Jana
Jana,
I wasn't attempting to quibble, but pointing out my recent
experience. I do live close to a couple of terminals here in Tucson, but
noone ever indicated that my proximity to the truck terminals was the
reason I could pick up the shipments from the terminal rather than
scheduling home delivery. The most recent delivery was from UPS Freight
(from a truck company recently bought by UPS). I think the other shipper
was Northern Freight, but I can't put my fingers on the records. The
trucking companies actually indicated that they preferred people to pick up
from the terminal rather than scheduling home delivery.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Mike in Arkansas wrote:
<snip>
> I emailed them shipping
> instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that
> information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was
> charged for home delivery.
They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal
delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was
their error.
Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.