This is the pic from the auction site. http://www.flickr.com/photos/438361=
44@N04/11151705784/
There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the saw to=
get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto the cabinet's=
bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base under. Tilting the sa=
w, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone, because, in part, there are=
no legs under the side table. He has already stated the saw tilted toward=
the unsupported side table end (there are no legs under the side table, at=
the moment) and he was concerned about it over-tilting (uncontroled), that=
way.
An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost against his =
making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He can't shim at the bott=
om and do all the base work, the shims will be in his way. IMO, the saw ha=
s to be shimmed and/or supported at the tabletop, for the bottom to be open=
/free, for the installation of trim and proper mobile base.
With a custom support frame, a crow bar would work, but I'd likely use a 2X=
or something softer than a metal bar, to prevent scratching the saw. With=
a crow bar: Maybe clamp a 1X under each side of the tabletop and lever aga=
inst the 1X wood.
My suggestions are for Bill working alone. With some assistance, his tasks=
would be easier, plus he would have someone else to blame if something got=
screwed up.
It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to plan, li=
ft the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from everyone, the b=
etter for him to develope the best plan of action.
Sonny
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is the pic from the auction site.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/11151705784/
>
> There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the saw
> to get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto the
> cabinet's bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base under.
> Tilting the saw, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone, because, in
> part, there are no legs under the side table. He has already stated the
> saw tilted toward the unsupported side table end (there are no legs under
> the side table, at the moment) and he was concerned about it over-tilting
> (uncontroled), that way.
>
> An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost against
> his making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He can't shim at
> the bottom and do all the base work, the shims will be in his way. IMO,
> the saw has to be shimmed and/or supported at the tabletop, for the
> bottom to be open/free, for the installation of trim and proper mobile base.
>
> With a custom support frame, a crow bar would work, but I'd likely use a
> 2X or something softer than a metal bar, to prevent scratching the saw.
> With a crow bar: Maybe clamp a 1X under each side of the tabletop and
> lever against the 1X wood.
>
> My suggestions are for Bill working alone. With some assistance, his
> tasks would be easier, plus he would have someone else to blame if
> something got screwed up.
>
> It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to plan,
> lift the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from everyone,
> the better for him to develope the best plan of action.
Hope he got a good deal.
Sorry, but judging from that photo, that saw needs to be partially
disassembled and properly reassembled. The first thing I would do would be
to remove the top, outfeed table and motor and reassemble the cabinet and
component parts _from the bottom up_.
Would be a whole lot easier, can be done by one person, without all the
lifts and kludges being contemplated, and the upside is that the knowledge
gained by doing so will stand him in good stead for years to come.
(Wish I had just the magnetic switch cover, it is identical to mine, which
screw tits are broken and the part held on with bailing wire, and a
replacement part unavailable without buying the entire switch for $200.)
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)
Bill wrote:
> I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree. When I wrote "hex"earlier, I
> probably should have written "allen". Always thought in terms of
> "hex wrenches"...
--------------------------------------
As defined earlier for you, they are known in the trade as Socket Head
Cap Screws.
Yes, a hex key is required.
They exceed grade 5 spec but I don't remember by how much.
Very common in the machine tool builder business.
Lew
On 12/1/2013 9:51 AM, Sonny wrote:
> This is the pic from the auction site. http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/11151705784/
>
> There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the saw to get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto the cabinet's bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base under. Tilting the saw, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone, because, in part, there are no legs under the side table. He has already stated the saw tilted toward the unsupported side table end (there are no legs under the side table, at the moment) and he was concerned about it over-tilting (uncontroled), that way.
>
> An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost against his making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He can't shim at the bottom and do all the base work, the shims will be in his way. IMO, the saw has to be shimmed and/or supported at the tabletop, for the bottom to be open/free, for the installation of trim and proper mobile base.
>
> With a custom support frame, a crow bar would work, but I'd likely use a 2X or something softer than a metal bar, to prevent scratching the saw. With a crow bar: Maybe clamp a 1X under each side of the tabletop and lever against the 1X wood.
>
> My suggestions are for Bill working alone. With some assistance, his tasks would be easier, plus he would have someone else to blame if something got screwed up.
>
> It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to plan, lift the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from everyone, the better for him to develope the best plan of action.
>
> Sonny
>
Bill
goto home depot, find a piece of angle iron about 3 feet long get the
widest angle , get a 2 x 4. cut the 2 x 4 up into 6 inch pieces.
put the angle iron up on the 2x4 blocking tilt the saw up and have your
wife move the angle iron under the saw frame toward the right side of
the cabinet based on the pic. so the angle is parallel to the right side
of the cabinet. about 4 inches off the ground. You are tilting the saw
back off the current mobile base, using the leverage of the table top
and bars. it should be easy . Make sure the 2x4's are outside the
inteference range of the proper mobile base.
lift the saw onto the angle using the leverage of the long table, have
your wife back away from this while you raise the unit.
Have her pull the existing mobile base out carefully. some string
attached to both sides of the base will keep her hands away from the base.
After clearing it, have her carefully slide the proper base in under the
saw.. slowly lower the saw into the cradle. Once down on the left side,
lift the saw using the long leverage, have her remove the angle..
lower the saw.
This is really easy, and should not cause much strain on the saw. use
the rails.
You can prepare 2 angle irons if you like to be able to safely let the
saw down so you can put the base under...
Very easy..
--
Jeff
Sonny wrote:
> This is the pic from the auction site. http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/11151705784/
>
> There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the saw to get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto the cabinet's bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base under. Tilting the saw, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone, because, in part, there are no legs under the side table. He has already stated the saw tilted toward the unsupported side table end (there are no legs under the side table, at the moment) and he was concerned about it over-tilting (uncontroled), that way.
>
> An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost against his making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He can't shim at the bottom and do all the base work, the shims will be in his way. IMO, the saw has to be shimmed and/or supported at the tabletop, for the bottom to be open/free, for the installation of trim and proper mobile base.
>
<snip>
>
> It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to plan, lift the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from everyone, the better for him to develope the best plan of action.
>
> Sonny
Sonny, Thank you very, very much for explaining my situation. Not
because I am in need of so many additional suggestions at this point,
but to help folks to adequately understand the problem as they expend
good energy trying to be helpful (while thinking I'm an idiot! --lol)
Bill
woodchucker wrote:
> On 12/1/2013 9:51 AM, Sonny wrote:
>> This is the pic from the auction site.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/11151705784/
>>
>> There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the
>> saw to get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto
>> the cabinet's bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base
>> under. Tilting the saw, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone,
>> because, in part, there are no legs under the side table. He has
>> already stated the saw tilted toward the unsupported side table end
>> (there are no legs under the side table, at the moment) and he was
>> concerned about it over-tilting (uncontroled), that way.
>>
>> An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost
>> against his making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He
>> can't shim at the bottom and do all the base work, the shims will be
>> in his way. IMO, the saw has to be shimmed and/or supported at the
>> tabletop, for the bottom to be open/free, for the installation of
>> trim and proper mobile base.
>>
>> With a custom support frame, a crow bar would work, but I'd likely
>> use a 2X or something softer than a metal bar, to prevent scratching
>> the saw. With a crow bar: Maybe clamp a 1X under each side of the
>> tabletop and lever against the 1X wood.
>>
>> My suggestions are for Bill working alone. With some assistance, his
>> tasks would be easier, plus he would have someone else to blame if
>> something got screwed up.
>>
>> It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to
>> plan, lift the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from
>> everyone, the better for him to develope the best plan of action.
>>
>> Sonny
>>
> Bill
> goto home depot, find a piece of angle iron about 3 feet long get the
> widest angle , get a 2 x 4. cut the 2 x 4 up into 6 inch pieces.
>
> put the angle iron up on the 2x4 blocking tilt the saw up and have
> your wife move the angle iron under the saw frame toward the right
> side of the cabinet based on the pic. so the angle is parallel to the
> right side of the cabinet. about 4 inches off the ground. You are
> tilting the saw back off the current mobile base, using the leverage
> of the table top and bars. it should be easy . Make sure the 2x4's are
> outside the inteference range of the proper mobile base.
> lift the saw onto the angle using the leverage of the long table, have
> your wife back away from this while you raise the unit.
>
> Have her pull the existing mobile base out carefully. some string
> attached to both sides of the base will keep her hands away from the
> base.
>
> After clearing it, have her carefully slide the proper base in under
> the saw.. slowly lower the saw into the cradle. Once down on the left
> side, lift the saw using the long leverage, have her remove the angle..
> lower the saw.
>
> This is really easy, and should not cause much strain on the saw. use
> the rails.
>
> You can prepare 2 angle irons if you like to be able to safely let the
> saw down so you can put the base under...
>
> Very easy..
>
Mr. Woodchucker,
That is a clever use of the leverage offered by the rails.
Unfortunately, I cannot just set the saw on top of the sub-base because
there would be no way to put the nuts on to attach the sub-base (which
attach from underneath, inside of the area of the sub-base. There is
nothing to keep these two surfaces aligned either, besides the bolts and
gravity. I still need to obtain the connectors (special nuts and
bolts), so it's not like I could do it now even if I wanted to.
Thanks! --Bill
Bill wrote:
>
> That is a clever use of the leverage offered by the rails.
> Unfortunately, I cannot just set the saw on top of the sub-base
> because there would be no way to put the nuts on to attach the
> sub-base (which attach from underneath, inside of the area of the
> sub-base. There is nothing to keep these two surfaces aligned either,
> besides the bolts and gravity. I still need to obtain the connectors
> (special nuts and bolts), so it's not like I could do it now even if
> I wanted to.
Hey Bill - unless I'm mistaken, there is nothing special about those nuts
and bolts. Sounds like simple carriage bolts and standard nuts. Please
check very carefully on what those diagrams are showing. Forget what they
call them - check to see what they really are. Seldom is there a "special"
fastener. You most basic common hardware store carriage bolt is likely to
be the fastener you need. No special nuts at all. You will not likely be
benefiting yourself in the least by paying the overpriced rates from Delta
for common hardware items.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Hey Bill - unless I'm mistaken, there is nothing special about those
> nuts and bolts. Sounds like simple carriage bolts and standard nuts.
> Please check very carefully on what those diagrams are showing. Forget
> what they call them - check to see what they really are. Seldom is
> there a "special" fastener. You most basic common hardware store
> carriage bolt is likely to be the fastener you need. No special nuts
> at all. You will not likely be benefiting yourself in the least by
> paying the overpriced rates from Delta for common hardware items.
I still haven't vacuumed out the saw. However, based on some other
screws on the saw, I suspect these have hex(driven) head, and are
designed to fit an over-sized round hole in the same way that a typical
carriage bolt could fit a square hole. This giving it additional
resistance to shear stress. I could be completely mistaken. They are
referred to as "Delta Carriage Bolts" (HEX SOC HD SCREW). When I first
considered what I needed, I thought the same as you--"nothing special
about these nuts and bolts". And I have little doubt that some
grade-8, 5/16x3/4" bolts would fit. The flanged nuts surely are nothing
special (beyond being strong, and "flanged"). I usually learn something
new everyday! ; )
Bill
Bill wrote:
> I still haven't vacuumed out the saw. However, based on some other
> screws on the saw, I suspect these have hex(driven) head, and are
> designed to fit an over-sized round hole in the same way that a
> typical carriage bolt could fit a square hole.
That really does not make any sense Bill. A carriage bolt fits into a
square hole. I have no idea what you are trying to say about a hex driven
head, and/or how that relates to a carriage bolt.
> This giving it
> additional resistance to shear stress.
Again - this makes no sense at all. You have no concerns at all for shear
strength in your application. Even if you did, this still makes no sense at
all.
> I could be completely
> mistaken. They are referred to as "Delta Carriage Bolts" (HEX SOC HD
> SCREW). When I first considered what I needed, I thought the same
> as you--"nothing special about these nuts and bolts". And I have
> little doubt that some grade-8, 5/16x3/4" bolts would fit.
Grade 8? Holy cow Bill - you have no need whatsoever for grade 8 bolts in
this application.
> The
> flanged nuts surely are nothing special (beyond being strong, and
> "flanged"). I usually learn something new everyday! ; )
>
Flanged is the only difference these nuts can possibly claim. Nothing
special about them over a standard nut and a washer.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> The
>> flanged nuts surely are nothing special (beyond being strong, and
>> "flanged"). I usually learn something new everyday! ; )
>>
> Flanged is the only difference these nuts can possibly claim. Nothing
> special about them over a standard nut and a washer.
>
I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree. When I wrote "hex"earlier, I
probably should have written "allen". Always thought in terms of "hex
wrenches"...
Bill
Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> The
>>> flanged nuts surely are nothing special (beyond being strong, and
>>> "flanged"). I usually learn something new everyday! ; )
>>>
>> Flanged is the only difference these nuts can possibly claim. Nothing
>> special about them over a standard nut and a washer.
>>
> I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree. When I wrote "hex"earlier, I
> probably should have written "allen". Always thought in terms of "hex
> wrenches"...
>
I wondered about that - and probably should have asked, but you seemed to be
placing so much importance on the Delta spec for the screws and nuts, that
it looked like you thought they were something special.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:24:08 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Hey Bill - unless I'm mistaken, there is nothing special about those
>> nuts and bolts. Sounds like simple carriage bolts and standard nuts.
>> Please check very carefully on what those diagrams are showing. Forget
>> what they call them - check to see what they really are. Seldom is
>> there a "special" fastener. You most basic common hardware store
>> carriage bolt is likely to be the fastener you need. No special nuts
>> at all. You will not likely be benefiting yourself in the least by
>> paying the overpriced rates from Delta for common hardware items.
>
>I still haven't vacuumed out the saw. However, based on some other
>screws on the saw, I suspect these have hex(driven) head, and are
>designed to fit an over-sized round hole in the same way that a typical
>carriage bolt could fit a square hole.
"Cap screws"? These are available at the BORG and just about
everywhere that carries hardware. They're available at HF, in kits,
too.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cap-screw.htm#slideshow
>This giving it additional
>resistance to shear stress. I could be completely mistaken. They are
>referred to as "Delta Carriage Bolts" (HEX SOC HD SCREW). When I first
>considered what I needed, I thought the same as you--"nothing special
>about these nuts and bolts". And I have little doubt that some
>grade-8, 5/16x3/4" bolts would fit. The flanged nuts surely are nothing
>special (beyond being strong, and "flanged"). I usually learn something
>new everyday! ; )
>
>Bill
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013 06:51:32 -0800 (PST), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This is the pic from the auction site. http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/11151705784/
>
>There is a shaper mobile base under it. Bill will have to raise the saw to get that mobile base out, then reinstall the lower trim onto the cabinet's bottom edge, then slip the saw's proper mobile base under. Tilting the saw, to shim it may be difficult for Bill, alone, because, in part, there are no legs under the side table. He has already stated the saw tilted toward the unsupported side table end (there are no legs under the side table, at the moment) and he was concerned about it over-tilting (uncontroled), that way.
Remove the table, and the wings if he's worried about them. I
wouldn't move it with the table attached, anyway.
>An engine hoist would definitely help. Weigh that rental cost against his making a frame support, to shim/elevate the saw. He can't shim at the bottom and do all the base work, the shims will be in his way. IMO, the saw has to be shimmed and/or supported at the tabletop, for the bottom to be open/free, for the installation of trim and proper mobile base.
>With a custom support frame, a crow bar would work, but I'd likely use a 2X or something softer than a metal bar, to prevent scratching the saw. With a crow bar: Maybe clamp a 1X under each side of the tabletop and lever against the 1X wood.
>
>My suggestions are for Bill working alone. With some assistance, his tasks would be easier, plus he would have someone else to blame if something got screwed up.
Someone to bounce ideas off of, too. That's always a help when
entering uncharted territory.
>It's too cold to do any woodwork, now, so he has plenty of time to plan, lift the saw safely, etc., etc., so the more suggestions from everyone, the better for him to develope the best plan of action.