"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>>electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
>>nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
>
> Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
> so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
> Anything to make the job easier and faster.
>
> I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
> out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.
I'm not sure about the current users here but certainly we've had Tormek
users over the years. They seem expensive but when I stop and think about
the fact that I have a slow speed grinder from Woodcraft, a Makita
horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
quite reasonable.
John
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
I own a Makita LS1013 and love it. I would look at their current
offering, the LS1016. From my experience with Bosch tools I'm sure
you would like the 5412 if that's what you decide on.
It will be my next one once the price drops a bit!
Every time I try that thing in the store it makes me horny.
S-M-O-O-T-H and solid!
-------------
"Steve Turner" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Ah yes, the articulating (not sliding) version. A very nice machine;
that
would probably be my choice if I were in the market.
On Jan 24, 12:39=A0pm, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> > =A0I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... =A0 don't hit me too hard. LOL=
!
>
> I own a Makita LS1013 and love it. =A0I would look at their current
> offering, the LS1016. =A0From my experience with Bosch tools I'm sure
> you would like the 5412 if that's what you decide on.
I have the Makita LS1013 too. I am quite pleased with it. Haven't
used other models so can't say whether this one is better or worse.
But it works very well. Don't understand the appeal of 12" blade
models since they don't cut any wider. The 10" models will cut 4" or
so deep. Adding another inch of depth with a 12" blade doesn't
impress me.
On 1/24/2012 11:39 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>
> I own a Makita LS1013 and love it. I would look at their current
> offering, the LS1016. From my experience with Bosch tools I'm sure
> you would like the 5412 if that's what you decide on.
Great tool.
I got an almost new Makita LS1013 at a local pawnshop for $300. Does
that count as a gloat?
Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 1/25/2012 11:38 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp
>> 3000.
>
> I've been hearing a lot of good things about the WorkSharp units.
> I've never seen or tried one, but I would certainly be interested to
> see if it works any better (with less mess!) than the Makita.
>
I bit the bullet and bought one a few weeks ago. I'm extremely happy
with the results, especially after experiencing what a sharp chisel feels
like.
As for mess, it makes one. What you've got is a slow speed disc sander
with no provisions to catch the dust and shavings thrown off. It's just
as essential, if not moreso, to wear your dust mask when using this tool
as it is any Woodworking operation.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:16:57 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
>large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
>an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
>quite reasonable.
One thing that impresses me about Tormek's ads is that the Tormek 7 is
also guaranteed for commercial use. If they're prepared to warranty
one under those conditions, it likely speaks volumes as to its
reliability.
You don't know what you are talking about.
I think if you really check out there tools you would understand.
But your indication your a newbie, and you know it all.
Sawstop, Festool... yep, your a troll, or an idiot or both. Shut up and
learn something.
On 1/24/2012 10:46 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 4:33 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:16:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>>> I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a year,
>>> until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
>>> matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
>>
>> You need to take part in a Festool demo day. And then, take advantage
>> of their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed offer. After that, you can
>> consider your money really gone.
>
> LMAO! Yeah, i'm a LOOOOOOOOONG ways from being that 8^ with it. I don't
> believe in buying a name either. And in my opinion, that's about 50% of
> their price.
>
I love my Festool.
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
On 1/24/2012 10:31 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>> electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
>> nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
>
> Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
> so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
> Anything to make the job easier and faster.
>
> I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
> out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.
I have a Tormek. I cannot really say that I like it. I works as
advertised but has inherent issues IMHO.
I bought the works package several years ago.
First off it is best left "set up" in it's trough of water as a simple
sharpening task gets put off if you have to pull out the sharpener and
fill the trough with water. I prefer to sharpen several items at once.
Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp 3000.
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:07:12 -0500, "Josepi" <[email protected]>
>Good usage of "your a newbie" and "there tools" to demonstrate group
>ownership!
A few spelling errors doesn't for one second negate the fact that he's
smart enough to know which tools are worth investigating. Your
dismissal of that fact speaks volumes.
On 1/25/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
>>>>> Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
>>>>> have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
>>>>> need to empty the bag?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, which one?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I
>>>> have been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3
>>>> bags.
>>>>
>>>> At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
>>>> deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.
>>>>
>>>> Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags
>>>> for this price. ;~)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE
>>>> 79 B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year
>>>> on bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
>>>> waste and make room for the unit.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
>>> Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the
>>> vacuum in almost matching colors ...
>>>
>>
>> LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
>> Swingman? ;~)
>>
>> I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
>> harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose.
>> Additionally I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top
>> of the vac.
>>
>> FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
>> still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
>> fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
>> then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL
>
> As you know I'm an amateur, and not pushing the Festool stuff I have to
> their limits, far from it. I just know how much of a difference my
> amateur cyclone (garbage can plus Rockler (?) top made to my DC.
>
Agreed the cyclones do a good job at separation.
I have a Jet DC with a pleated filter on top that is almost 6 years old.
I use it most all the time and have replaced the waste bag countless
times. I use a 45 gal contractors bag and toss the whole thing. What I
see with using a cyclone is less shop space and the same amount of dust
to deal with when something needs to be emptied.
A half full bag weighs about 30~40 lbs and is a little tough to get out
of the dust collector because the bag expands wider than the top filter
support arms. This is with a normal mix of saw dust. Now imagine that
bag being half full with just fine saw dust. How heavy is that going to
be? If I bought a cyclone I would probably wonder how I ever got along
with out it. LOL
On 1/24/2012 10:37 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:46:02 -0600, Steve Barker
>>> You need to take part in a Festool demo day.
>
>> LMAO! Yeah, i'm a LOOOOOOOOONG ways from being that 8^ with it. I
>> don't believe in buying a name either. And in my opinion, that's about
>> 50% of their price.
>
> Then, you are the exact type of person who should try it out. Festool
> has a great capacity for dust control. That includes routers and
> sanders which is aside from the capability of their tools.
>
> The Festool Owners Group is full of people who were of the same
> opinion as you. You should check it out.
i'm not so closed minded as to never explore. Got a link?
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 2/2/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/1/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>>
>>> I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>>> to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>>
>>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>>
>> The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
>> thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
>> particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
>>
>> Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
>> If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
>> mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
>> work properly, we'd hear about it.
>
> Careful there Dave, you are flirting with what actually happens in the
> real world, this is a news group. :~)
very good point, Leon. It IS real world experiences that make the
differences, not what some pencil pusher says a product will do.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 2/1/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>
>> I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>> to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>
>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>
> The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
> thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
> particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
>
> Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
> If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
> mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
> work properly, we'd hear about it.
Ever heard any of these gear head geeks tell you their K$N filter did
NOT improve their mileage and performance? I can tell you the science
says they won't, AND they pass more dirt in the process of failing. Not
ONE K$N filter owner will admit they wasted their money, and they know
damn good and well it didn't do a THING for their piss ant vehicle they
put it on.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 2/1/2012 10:32 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/1/2012 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:29:08 -0600, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>>>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
>>>>> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
>>>>
>>>> First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
>>>> work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> I really sucks, everything but dust. ;-)
>>>
>>> I bought one of the chop-saw hoods so it doesn't throw it everywhere. I think
>>> the problem is that the dust port is too high so there isn't enough suction at
>>> the blade to pull dust up to the port. There should be a "scoop" or something
>>> behind the blade to deflect the dust upward into the dust port.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>
> Check the port for a large chip. It should work a helluva lot better.
> Haven't you hooked up a dust collector or shop vac to it? That should
> catch 95%.
>
> My HF SCMS dust collector bag works pretty well, catching about 75%. I
> seldom use it on site, though. Grass is a very good collector and
> distributor of sawdust.
>
> --
> Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
no, i have no intention of hooking up yet another pita thing to the saw
just to catch a little sawdust that will get swept up and vacuumed when
the project is over.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/24/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:19:16 -0600, Steve Barker
>>> The Festool Owners Group is full of people who were of the same
>>> opinion as you. You should check it out.
>> i'm not so closed minded as to never explore. Got a link?
>
> http://festoolownersgroup.com/
>
> BTW, the group is not just Festool centric. They discuss all brands of
> tools and other things, minus the politics and the cursing about
> SawStop.
thanks, got it bookmarked. i'll check it out later.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 2/1/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>
>> I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>> to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>
>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>
> The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
> thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
> particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
>
> Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
> If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
> mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
> work properly, we'd hear about it.
Careful there Dave, you are flirting with what actually happens in the
real world, this is a news group. :~)
Like when the Slide-Stop kicks in? I have never jammed my cheapies.
------------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a
year,
until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
On 1/25/2012 1:04 PM, m II wrote:
> That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
> decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
> anything larger than a 10" saw.
>
> They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop the
> new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**
>
>
> -------------
> "Pat Barber" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Read the specs really carefully....
>
> Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.
>
> Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
> straight up.
>
> Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.
>
> http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categories/machinery-miter-saws.aspx#
you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12 inch
dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying
this is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell
you from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the
game. The faster, the better the cut.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Good usage of "your a newbie" and "there tools" to demonstrate group
ownership!
LOL
----------
"tiredofspam" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You don't know what you are talking about.
I think if you really check out there tools you would understand.
But your indication your a newbie, and you know it all.
Sawstop, Festool... yep, your a troll, or an idiot or both. Shut up and
learn something.
On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>
> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>
>
> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>
>
You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:00:27 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/27/2012 8:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>> FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
>>> same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
>>> article.
>>> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>>>> very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>>>> more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>>>> to a different location is going to become important.
>>>
>>> I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
>>> lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
>>> truck tool storage area.<sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
>>> That's $2.50/yr.
>>
>> I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe.
>> Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle
>> to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.
I'd use tubatwos, dado down the middle for a separator, and mahogany
door skin for the covers and center divider.
>Not sure about the Makita track but the Festool track is just under 7.5"
>wide.
Did you see the end shot of the 3 in the PW article?
--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
On 1/24/2012 9:47 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 5:10 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
>>> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the
>>> unit you are looking at, at Amazon.
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is that
>> just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?
>>
>
> that capacity is measured back at the fence where they use the back of
> the blade and a cutout in the housing to cut tall trim. Yes, i agree,
> it's kind of like including the 2.5 foot stickout of a swim deck in the
> length of a boat when it shouldn't count at all. LOL!
>
And do you remember the old CRT monitors, 17" was actually 15.75", you
were not suppose to count the part of the tube that provided no picture
but the manufacturers did.
On 1/24/2012 9:46 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 4:33 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:16:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>>> I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a year,
>>> until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
>>> matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
>>
>> You need to take part in a Festool demo day. And then, take advantage
>> of their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed offer. After that, you can
>> consider your money really gone.
>
> LMAO! Yeah, i'm a LOOOOOOOOONG ways from being that 8^ with it. I don't
> believe in buying a name either. And in my opinion, that's about 50% of
> their price.
>
Well that is the way I felt, then I bought the Domino and Ct22 vac.
IMHO the tools that I have bought from Festool make most all brands that
I have owned and still own, Bosch, DeWalt, Makita, Porter Cable, and
Milwaukee, seem inadequate.
Because of the quality and added usefulness of many of the Festool tools
I have added the Rotex Sander, Finish sander, Track Saw, and the C15-3
drill.
The Domino is the priciest of all my tools but I have cut in excess of
4,000 mortices with it in the last 4 years, that has to have paid for
the tool by now.
The Rotex sander replaced my old PC right angle ROS and until I used the
Rotex I was convinced that nothing in that class removed stock any
faster than the old PC and coupled with the vac I have 99.5% dustless
sanding, so I am not breathing in dust and tracking dust into the house.
With the Rotex sander I no longer use a belt sander any more.
MY Festool Finish sander replaced a PC SpeedBloc sander, I do not see a
remarkable improvement in performance but again I don't have dust
issues. and the paper lasts twice as long.
The Track saw makes cabinet saw quality cuts and can make final cuts.
It is extremely proficient in putting a straight edge on S2S lumber and
is the tool to use to make taper cuts.
Since adding the Festool C15-3 drill I have not used my Makita
drill/driver or Makita Impact driver. The right angle and eccentric
chucks are real problem solvers.
All of these tools save me lots of time and time is ....money.
AND BTY I would be the first to say that brand loyalty is not a good
thing when it comes to power tools. I am sure that Festool has a few
stinkers but probably far fewer than most brands. ;~)
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
<been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>>>>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
>>>>> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
>>>>> -- George Lois
>>>>
>>>> Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
>>>>
>>>> All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
>>>>
>>>> The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
>>>> that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
>>>> least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
>>>
>>> An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.
>>
>> Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
>> the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
>> =14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
>> you need more length.
>
> Ayup.
>
>
>>> How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
>>> guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
>>> clean cut?
>>
>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>> have to pick them up and place them.
>
> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
> near perfect continuance of the cut?
That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
>
>
>
>>> What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
>>> down in a cut?
>>
>> Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
>> the power.
>
> Hell, I've been working with Dad's old Craftsman circular saw for 20
> years now, doin' the old Eveready bunny thang.
>
>
>>> Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.
>>
>> Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
>> material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.
>
> Does it take one or two pieces to join the tracks? They appear to be
> sold separately but it states that two are required.
For the Festool and the most secure, 2 bars, $15 each.
>
>
>>>> And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
>>>
>>> Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
>>> me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
>>
>> Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
>> you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
>> cut to the other.
>
> Given that you'd only move the track a foot or two out of 8, I can't
> see how it would be that much of a problem. Not glueline, but fairly
> straight...
Well if as you say fairly straight is all you are looking for you might
be happy but as I have mentioned before I am looking for better than TS
results. Moving the track at all upsets the accuracy. Not moving the
track at all will give you the straightest line.
Remember these saws are not framing/construction saws, they are made to
produce very very straight and good cuts.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>>>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
>>>> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
>>>> -- George Lois
>>>
>>> Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
>>>
>>> All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
>>>
>>> The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
>>> that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
>>> least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
>>
>> An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.
>
>Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
>the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
>=14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
>you need more length.
Ayup.
>> How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
>> guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
>> clean cut?
>
>Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>have to pick them up and place them.
I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
near perfect continuance of the cut?
>> What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
>> down in a cut?
>
>Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
>the power.
Hell, I've been working with Dad's old Craftsman circular saw for 20
years now, doin' the old Eveready bunny thang.
>> Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.
>
>Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
>material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.
Does it take one or two pieces to join the tracks? They appear to be
sold separately but it states that two are required.
>>> And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
>>
>> Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
>> me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
>
>Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
>you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
>cut to the other.
Given that you'd only move the track a foot or two out of 8, I can't
see how it would be that much of a problem. Not glueline, but fairly
straight...
--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
On 1/27/2012 8:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
>
> On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>
>
>>
>> FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
>> same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
>> article.
>> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
>>
>>
>>> Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>>> very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>>> more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>>> to a different location is going to become important.
>>
>> I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
>> lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
>> truck tool storage area.<sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
>> That's $2.50/yr.
>
> I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe.
> Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle
> to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.
Not sure about the Makita track but the Festool track is just under 7.5"
wide.
On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>>>> year...
>>>>
>>>> Meh ...
>>>>
>>>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>>>> with the best tool for the job:
>>>>
>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>>>
>>> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
>>> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>>>
>>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
>>> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
>>> -- George Lois
>>
>> Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
>>
>> All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
>>
>> The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
>> that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
>> least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
>
> An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.
Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
=14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
you need more length.
>
>
>> cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
>> track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
>> to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
>> tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
>> behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
>> If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
>> to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
>> with either brand.
>
> How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
> guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
> clean cut?
Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
have to pick them up and place them.
>
>
>> Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
>> the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
>> With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
>> saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
>> beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
>> optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
>> ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?
>
> UGH!
>
>
>> It is likely the
>> track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
>> flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
>> put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
>> the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
>> increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
>> can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
>> 55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.
>
> Or the pair of 55s.
Yeah
>
>
>> Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
>> same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
>> be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
>> just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
>> with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
>> track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
>> mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.
>>
>> Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
>> possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
>> much price difference as you might think.
>
> What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
> down in a cut?
Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
the power.
>
>
>> The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
>> $655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
>> track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
>> they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
>> you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
>> the Makita.
>> So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
>> If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.
>>
>> Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
>> and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
>> $53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
>> rails for about $30.
>
> Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.
Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.
>
>
>> Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
>> track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
>> the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
>> transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
>> 55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
>> careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
>> the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.
>
> FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
> same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
> article.
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.
>
>> Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>> very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>> more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>> to a different location is going to become important.
>
> I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
> lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
> truck tool storage area.<sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
> That's $2.50/yr.
>
>
>> These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
>> S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
>> And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
>
> Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
> me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
cut to the other.
>
> --
> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
> -- George Lois
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>>> year...
>>>
>>> Meh ...
>>>
>>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>>> with the best tool for the job:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>>
>> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
>> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>>
>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>>
>> --
>> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
>> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
>> -- George Lois
>
>Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
>
>All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
>
>The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
>that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
>least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.
>cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
>track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
>to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
>tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
>behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
>If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
>to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
>with either brand.
How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
clean cut?
>Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
>the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
>With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
>saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
>beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
>optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
>ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?
UGH!
>It is likely the
>track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
>flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
>put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
>the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
>increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
>can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
>55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.
Or the pair of 55s.
>Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
>same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
>be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
>just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
>with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
>track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
>mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.
>
>Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
>possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
>much price difference as you might think.
What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
down in a cut?
>The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
>$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
>track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
>they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
>you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
>the Makita.
>So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
>If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.
>
>Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
>and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
>$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
>rails for about $30.
Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.
>Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
>track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
>the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
>transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
>55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
>careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
>the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.
FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
>Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>to a different location is going to become important.
I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area. <sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.
>These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
>S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
>And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois
On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>>>> year...
>>>>
>>>> Meh ...
>>>>
>>>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>>>> with the best tool for the job:
>>>>
>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>>>
>>> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
>>> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>>>
>>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
>>> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
>>> -- George Lois
>>
>> Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
>>
>> All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
>>
>> The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
>> that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
>> least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
>
> An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.
Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
=14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
you need more length.
>
>
>> cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
>> track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
>> to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
>> tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
>> behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
>> If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
>> to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
>> with either brand.
>
> How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
> guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
> clean cut?
Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
have to pick them up and place them.
>
>
>> Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
>> the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
>> With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
>> saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
>> beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
>> optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
>> ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?
>
> UGH!
>
>
>> It is likely the
>> track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
>> flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
>> put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
>> the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
>> increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
>> can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
>> 55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.
>
> Or the pair of 55s.
Yeah
>
>
>> Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
>> same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
>> be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
>> just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
>> with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
>> track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
>> mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.
>>
>> Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
>> possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
>> much price difference as you might think.
>
> What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
> down in a cut?
Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
the power.
>
>
>> The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
>> $655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
>> track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
>> they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
>> you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
>> the Makita.
>> So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
>> If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.
>>
>> Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
>> and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
>> $53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
>> rails for about $30.
>
> Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.
Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.
>
>
>> Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
>> track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
>> the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
>> transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
>> 55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
>> careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
>> the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.
>
> FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
> same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
> article.
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.
>
>> Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>> very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>> more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>> to a different location is going to become important.
>
> I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
> lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
> truck tool storage area.<sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
> That's $2.50/yr.
>
>
>> These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
>> S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
>> And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
>
> Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
> me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
cut to the other.
>
> --
> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
> -- George Lois
On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>
> FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
> same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
> article.
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws
>
>
>> Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
>> very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
>> more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
>> to a different location is going to become important.
>
> I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
> lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
> truck tool storage area.<sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
> That's $2.50/yr.
I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe.
Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle
to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.
>
>
>> These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
>> S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
>> And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
>
> Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
> me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
>
> --
> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
> -- George Lois
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:20:44 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>>> year...
>>>
>>> Meh ...
>>>
>>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>>> with the best tool for the job:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>>
>> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
>> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>>
>> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
>> the fluorescent green plastic?
>
>
>Class? '~)
I believe you misspelled "crass", sir, unless you're turning Japanese,
I think you're turning Japanese, I really thinks so. <da da da da>
Maybe you meant "the snooty Cherman name".
--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
>> Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
>> have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
>> need to empty the bag?
>>
>> If so, which one?
>>
>
> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>
> At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
> deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.
>
> Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
> this price. ;~)
>
> http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79
> B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}
>
>
> I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
> bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
> waste and make room for the unit.
Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the vacuum
in almost matching colors ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
>>>> Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
>>>> have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
>>>> need to empty the bag?
>>>>
>>>> If so, which one?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I
>>> have been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3
>>> bags.
>>>
>>> At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
>>> deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.
>>>
>>> Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags
>>> for this price. ;~)
>>>
>>> http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE
>>> 79 B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}
>>>
>>>
>>> I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year
>>> on bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
>>> waste and make room for the unit.
>>
>> Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
>> Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the
>> vacuum in almost matching colors ...
>>
>
> LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
> Swingman? ;~)
>
> I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
> harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose.
> Additionally I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top
> of the vac.
>
> FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
> still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
> fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
> then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL
As you know I'm an amateur, and not pushing the Festool stuff I have to
their limits, far from it. I just know how much of a difference my
amateur cyclone (garbage can plus Rockler (?) top made to my DC.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Agreed the cyclones do a good job at separation.
>
> I have a Jet DC with a pleated filter on top that is almost 6 years
> old.
> I use it most all the time and have replaced the waste bag countless
> times. I use a 45 gal contractors bag and toss the whole thing. What
> I see with using a cyclone is less shop space and the same amount of
> dust to deal with when something needs to be emptied.
>
> A half full bag weighs about 30~40 lbs and is a little tough to get
> out of the dust collector because the bag expands wider than the top
> filter support arms. This is with a normal mix of saw dust. Now
> imagine that bag being half full with just fine saw dust. How heavy
> is that going to be? If I bought a cyclone I would probably wonder
> how I ever got along with out it. LOL
I also have a pleated filter (Wynn, I believe) on the DC. Can't
remember changing the lower bag, which is a royal PITA (that I do
remember!). Yes you lose shop space, and I wish it wasn't so, but the
ease of emptying the metal garbage can compensates more than enough.
The bargae can has easy carry handles so I don't have to struggle to
keep the dust in the bag out of my nose ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:47:29 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>>I let my kids use all my tools... even the Lie-Nielson planes and saws in
>>preference to the old Stanley and Millers Falls tools. It is not
>>reasonable
>>to expect kids to have good results with junk tools nor like working with
>>tools that perform poorly.
>
> I can remember at 5 years of age, using my father's chisels to open
> paint cans. Needless to say, I destroyed more than one. But, my
> chiseling paint cans didn't last long. My father gave me my own set of
> chisels and I realized soon enough that they didn't work anymore after
> breaking one or two. I paid attention when it was *my* tools being put
> to misuse. That lesson has stayed with me more than 50 years.
>
> BTW John. My spell checker crapped out on your last name. You owe me a
> new one. :)
Some spell checkers are like the Harbor Freight power tools I've had the
misfortune to use (but not own)... they almost get the job done. ;~)
As a kid I grew up in the 60s and 70s when corded hand tools were becoming
popular for homeowners. I didn't have a chance to work with good woodworking
hand tools as a kid... It took working at Colonial Williamsburg, VA, at the
transition from my 20s to 30s, to learn that you can do fine work with no
electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
John
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:14:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>>using it for rough construction also. Anythin' will beat that old
>>hitachi my dad gave me because someone else gave it to him. I think
>>there's a reason it keeps getting given away. (i'll give it to my son)
>>LOL!
>
> Obviously, it's a clandestine attempt to stop children from using your
> *good* tools. ~ Doesn't work anymore. Kids these days have an
> unusually developed sense of entitlement.
I let my kids use all my tools... even the Lie-Nielson planes and saws in
preference to the old Stanley and Millers Falls tools. It is not reasonable
to expect kids to have good results with junk tools nor like working with
tools that perform poorly. Taking it one step further I bought an L-N No 5
plane for them to use as they couldn't handle the No 7. Funny thing is that
the No 5 has turned out to be the one most used by me!
John
On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>>
>>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>>
>>>
>>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>> a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>> to the tool is an important step!
>
> One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.<titter>
>
> --
> The most powerful factors in the world are clear
> ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
> -- J. Arthur Thomson
One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.
On 2/2/2012 5:00 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 2/1/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>>
>>> I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>>> to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>>
>>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>>
>> The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
>> thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
>> particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
>>
>> Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
>> If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
>> mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
>> work properly, we'd hear about it.
>
> Ever heard any of these gear head geeks tell you their K$N filter did
> NOT improve their mileage and performance? I can tell you the science
> says they won't, AND they pass more dirt in the process of failing. Not
> ONE K$N filter owner will admit they wasted their money, and they know
> damn good and well it didn't do a THING for their piss ant vehicle they
> put it on.
>
The difference her though is that the SS is a major investment that
better perform as advertised. The K&R is not cheap stuff but
complaining would be a lot of effort for little return and they are not
at the news front like the SS.
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>
>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>
>>
>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>
>>
>
>You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>to the tool is an important step!
One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it. <titter>
--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson
On 1/28/2012 3:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:59:41 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>>>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>>>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>>>> have to pick them up and place them.
>>>
>>> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
>>> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
>>> near perfect continuance of the cut?
>>
>> That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
>> pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
>> Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
>> won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
>> My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
>
> I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?
No.
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:59:41 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>>> have to pick them up and place them.
>>
>> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
>> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
>> near perfect continuance of the cut?
>
>That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
>pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
>Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
>won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
>My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?
>> Does it take one or two pieces to join the tracks? They appear to be
>> sold separately but it states that two are required.
>
>For the Festool and the most secure, 2 bars, $15 each.
OK, thanks. My $130 figure is about right, for the two connectors and
an extra 55" section of track.
>> Given that you'd only move the track a foot or two out of 8, I can't
>> see how it would be that much of a problem. Not glueline, but fairly
>> straight...
>
>Well if as you say fairly straight is all you are looking for you might
>be happy but as I have mentioned before I am looking for better than TS
>results. Moving the track at all upsets the accuracy. Not moving the
>track at all will give you the straightest line.
True.
>Remember these saws are not framing/construction saws, they are made to
>produce very very straight and good cuts.
It would be used on plywood and, hopefully/soon, foam board for signs.
--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:56:11 -0700, Just Wondering
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Makita LS1013
Almost new, if true, IMHO, you suck.
On 1/25/2012 11:40 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:16:57 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>> horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
>> large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
>> an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
>> quite reasonable.
>
> One thing that impresses me about Tormek's ads is that the Tormek 7 is
> also guaranteed for commercial use. If they're prepared to warranty
> one under those conditions, it likely speaks volumes as to its
> reliability.
MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder. Now if a pro shop
did use one I think that Tormek would be willing to warrant the few that
might need repairs in order to be able to say that it will last the same
amount of years in a commercial shop.
Having said that the Tormek is very well made and there are few parts
that will wear out. The bushings/bearings are serviceable and other
than the motor that is about all that will wear out.
On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>
If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the
unit you are looking at, at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
On 1/25/2012 2:33 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:03:39 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
>> time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder.
>
> I was thinking if it's a pro shop, they've be using a Tormek far more
> often than any private user. If that's so, then the warranty even in
> the face of repeated commercial use is a good recommendation for the
> quality of the tool.
>
> As to dry grinding, I'm of the impression that dry grinding is subject
> to heat build up which can hurt the temper of the metal in a knife. I
> hope (maybe naively), that a pro shop would be a little more
> responsible with their customer's knives and not subject them to the
> effects of heat deterioration.
Misunderstanding here. LOL
I was thinking a woodworking shop doing their own sharpening. You
are/were talking about a sharpening shop.
Actually I think sharpening shops use a sanding belt to sharpen most
tools. Those belts go to up to 6000 grit.
Any way the Work Sharp system uses a heat sink for dissipating heat
when sharpening chisels and IIRC they recommend touching the chisel to
the grinding surface a few seconds on and a few seconds off repeatedly.
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:03:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
>time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder.
I was thinking if it's a pro shop, they've be using a Tormek far more
often than any private user. If that's so, then the warranty even in
the face of repeated commercial use is a good recommendation for the
quality of the tool.
As to dry grinding, I'm of the impression that dry grinding is subject
to heat build up which can hurt the temper of the metal in a knife. I
hope (maybe naively), that a pro shop would be a little more
responsible with their customer's knives and not subject them to the
effects of heat deterioration.
On 1/24/2012 3:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I have the Makita LS1013 too. I am quite pleased with it. Haven't
> used other models so can't say whether this one is better or worse.
> But it works very well. Don't understand the appeal of 12" blade
> models since they don't cut any wider. The 10" models will cut 4" or
> so deep. Adding another inch of depth with a 12" blade doesn't
> impress me.
I have the LS1013.
Where a 12" model definitely comes in handy is if you're doing a good
deal of crown molding.
For ease of installing, crown molding is usually cut upside down on a
jig of some sort, meaning you reduce the depth cut of the miter saw:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods#5684919370608839074
About the only time I wish I had something bigger than the 10" LS1013 ...
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
>>> have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
>>> need to empty the bag?
>>>
>>> If so, which one?
>>>
>>
>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>
>> At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
>> deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.
>>
>> Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
>> this price. ;~)
>>
>> http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79
>> B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}
>>
>>
>> I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
>> bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
>> waste and make room for the unit.
>
> Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
> Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the vacuum
> in almost matching colors ...
>
LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
Swingman? ;~)
I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose. Additionally
I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top of the vac.
FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL
On 1/24/2012 5:10 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>
>>
>> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
>> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the
>> unit you are looking at, at Amazon.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
>>
>
> How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is that
> just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?
>
that capacity is measured back at the fence where they use the back of
the blade and a cutout in the housing to cut tall trim. Yes, i agree,
it's kind of like including the 2.5 foot stickout of a swim deck in the
length of a boat when it shouldn't count at all. LOL!
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/24/2012 4:33 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:16:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>> I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a year,
>> until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
>> matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
>
> You need to take part in a Festool demo day. And then, take advantage
> of their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed offer. After that, you can
> consider your money really gone.
LMAO! Yeah, i'm a LOOOOOOOOONG ways from being that 8^ with it. I
don't believe in buying a name either. And in my opinion, that's about
50% of their price.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>> year...
>>
>> Meh ...
>>
>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>> with the best tool for the job:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>
> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>
> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
> the fluorescent green plastic?
>
> --
> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
> -- George Lois
Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
with either brand.
Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track? It is likely the
track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.
Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.
Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
much price difference as you might think.
The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
the Makita.
So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.
Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
rails for about $30.
Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.
Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.
These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
On 1/26/2012 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:58:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>>>>>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>>>>>>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>>>>>>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>>>>>>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>>>>>> a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>>>>>> to the tool is an important step!
>>>>>
>>>>> One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.<titter>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
>>>> course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
>>>> getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.
>>>
>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>> year...
>>
>>
>> Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
>> us. ;~)
>
> I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.
> I've physically held a Festool 55 and it didn't impress me. (The Bosch
> 14.4v Impactor did because they had a working model. I bought one that
> day after viewing the Festool on the way into the home store.) They
> were outside and wouldn't bring out an extension cord so could make
> some sawdust with it, but the Makita feels just as smooth and has a
> couple of additions that Festool doesn't. Plus it costs $392 vs $525.
>
> I also couldn't hear their suckers. I wanted to see what noise a 55
> and CT26 would make together, and see how much sawdust was left.
> Videos just don't cut it.
>
> So, how much better is the CT26 than a 10gal shop vac?
How much
> quieter is it than a quiet shop vac?
With a tool running with the CT"x", you simply do not hear the vac.
One big plus that I never considered, the Festool vacs roll quite easily
by simply pulling on the hose and do not tip over like some other brands.
Why $550 for a bloody vacuum?
> OK, built-in relay for starting other tool. That's a plus. HEPA is a
> plus. CFM is waaay down comparatively, but I guess that tool dust
> extraction doesn't take nearly as much.
>
> --
> Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
> the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
> -- George Lois
On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>>> year...
>>
>> Meh ...
>>
>> Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>> with the best tool for the job:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
>
> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
>
> What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
> the fluorescent green plastic?
Class? '~)
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:58:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>>>>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>>>>>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>>>>>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>>>>>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>>>>> a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>>>>> to the tool is an important step!
>>>>
>>>> One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.<titter>
>>>
>>>
>>> One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
>>> course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
>>> getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.
>>
>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>> year...
>
>
>Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
>us. ;~)
I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.
I've physically held a Festool 55 and it didn't impress me. (The Bosch
14.4v Impactor did because they had a working model. I bought one that
day after viewing the Festool on the way into the home store.) They
were outside and wouldn't bring out an extension cord so could make
some sawdust with it, but the Makita feels just as smooth and has a
couple of additions that Festool doesn't. Plus it costs $392 vs $525.
I also couldn't hear their suckers. I wanted to see what noise a 55
and CT26 would make together, and see how much sawdust was left.
Videos just don't cut it.
So, how much better is the CT26 than a 10gal shop vac? How much
quieter is it than a quiet shop vac? Why $550 for a bloody vacuum?
OK, built-in relay for starting other tool. That's a plus. HEPA is a
plus. CFM is waaay down comparatively, but I guess that tool dust
extraction doesn't take nearly as much.
--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois
On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
> Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
C-less, look at it this way. If you were really that dense your ass
would have been plonked ten years ago. ;)
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
>> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
>> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
>> year...
>
>Meh ...
>
>Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
>with the best tool for the job:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?
--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 09:01:55 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/28/2012 10:13 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:49:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/28/2012 3:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:59:41 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>>>>>>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>>>>>>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>>>>>>> have to pick them up and place them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
>>>>>> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
>>>>>> near perfect continuance of the cut?
>>>>>
>>>>> That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
>>>>> pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
>>>>> Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
>>>>> won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
>>>>> My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
>>>>
>>>> I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> OK. I'm comfy with a 60-1/2 plane to soften any small ridge, but I
>> guess it would depend on the necessity of absolute precision, wouldn't
>> it? Each case would be different.
>
>That is true however in my case I did not spend several hundreds of
>dollars for a saw that would yield slightly better results than a
>typical circular saw and a straight edge. I wanted equal to or better
>than TS performance and accuracy. And I knew that I would soon tire of
>having to fidget with the track if I could not make my complete cut in
>one pass. That I why I went the to the extra expense in the beginning
>so that I would get the full benefit of having this type saw.
Grok that. Given funding, I'd have all the goodies, too.
>And again I am not saying that what you are thinking will be wrong for
>you and that my reasoning for my purposes is the solution for everyone.
> I just want to point out some of the things that you need to be aware of.
Bueno, bwana.
>And as far as absolute precision is concerned I am sure that I am not
>getting it but from no fault of the saw so to speak.
Yuppers. Projects are only as good as we are (or care to be) with the
tools we have to work with.
>But the more
>little areas that can introduce error that are eliminated the less
>likely that small error amplifies itself several steps further along in
>the project.
This is true on almost all projects, too.
--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
On Jan 24, 3:45=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> If you can afford the Bosch, go for it. It's a good choice. Those are
> nice saurs. =A0I bought the HF 98194 because I wanted to be able to eat
> and pay my truck payment that month, too. =A0Hmm, $800 or $160? =A0It has
> been a workhorse for me and is easy to use. The difference in capacity
> between it and the old 10" Delta I had is unreal. =A012" sliders are
> truly wondrous.
Well, since you brought it up...
My amigo that builds decks and gazebos got tired of his good sliders
being banged up at the end of the day when loaded into the truck. As
you know, those big saws are fine when on a table, but unwieldy to
handle.
He bought one of HF slider saws and took apart the glides and cleaned
them all up. He showed me the rags; I am not sure they did any
cleaning after machining and polishing. It was really full of dirty
oil, metal powder, and unidentified crud. He put some light grease on
part of it, graphite on the rest, and man is that thing smooth.
It is perfect for him. He bought the extended "no questions asked"
warranty for it for something like $15, and he has used the crap out
of it. He loves it. Of course, unlike his DeWalts and Makitas, he
can't kill this saw or beat it to pieces from rough handling. We have
decided that they must make it at the same plant where they make those
unstoppable 4" grinders.
If I was doing more rough work, I wouldn't look any farther. They had
the 12" slider on sale here locally, the same one he bought, for $139.
For a guy on a budget, or one that knows his specific use for a tool
that's pretty tough to beat.
Robert
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
>nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
Anything to make the job easier and faster.
I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.
On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
> Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I have
> heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you need to empty
> the bag?
>
> If so, which one?
>
Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.
Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
this price. ;~)
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}
I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the waste
and make room for the unit.
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:46:02 -0600, Steve Barker
>> You need to take part in a Festool demo day.
>LMAO! Yeah, i'm a LOOOOOOOOONG ways from being that 8^ with it. I
>don't believe in buying a name either. And in my opinion, that's about
>50% of their price.
Then, you are the exact type of person who should try it out. Festool
has a great capacity for dust control. That includes routers and
sanders which is aside from the capability of their tools.
The Festool Owners Group is full of people who were of the same
opinion as you. You should check it out.
On 1/24/2012 12:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>
> I own a Makita LS1013 and love it. I would look at their current
> offering, the LS1016. From my experience with Bosch tools I'm sure
> you would like the 5412 if that's what you decide on.
I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a year,
until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
> year...
Meh ...
Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>>>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>>>>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>>>>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>>>>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>>>> a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>>>> to the tool is an important step!
>>>
>>> One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.<titter>
>>
>>
>> One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
>> course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
>> getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.
>
> <g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
> I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
> SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
> year...
Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
us. ;~)
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
>>>>> been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.
>>>>
>>>> Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
>>>> instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
>>>> the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
>>>> ... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
>>> a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
>>> to the tool is an important step!
>>
>> One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.<titter>
>
>
>One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
>course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
>getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.
<g> You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...
--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois
On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:49:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 1/28/2012 3:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:59:41 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>>>>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>>>>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>>>>> have to pick them up and place them.
>>>>
>>>> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
>>>> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
>>>> near perfect continuance of the cut?
>>>
>>> That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
>>> pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
>>> Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
>>> won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
>>> My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
>>
>> I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?
>
>No.
OK. I'm comfy with a 60-1/2 plane to soften any small ridge, but I
guess it would depend on the necessity of absolute precision, wouldn't
it? Each case would be different.
--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide
On 1/28/2012 10:13 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:49:23 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/28/2012 3:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:59:41 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:09:36 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
>>>>>> the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
>>>>>> start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
>>>>>> have to pick them up and place them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but
>>>>> why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a
>>>>> near perfect continuance of the cut?
>>>>
>>>> That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny
>>>> pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with.
>>>> Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you
>>>> won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut.
>>>> My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.
>>>
>>> I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?
>>
>> No.
>
> OK. I'm comfy with a 60-1/2 plane to soften any small ridge, but I
> guess it would depend on the necessity of absolute precision, wouldn't
> it? Each case would be different.
That is true however in my case I did not spend several hundreds of
dollars for a saw that would yield slightly better results than a
typical circular saw and a straight edge. I wanted equal to or better
than TS performance and accuracy. And I knew that I would soon tire of
having to fidget with the track if I could not make my complete cut in
one pass. That I why I went the to the extra expense in the beginning
so that I would get the full benefit of having this type saw.
And again I am not saying that what you are thinking will be wrong for
you and that my reasoning for my purposes is the solution for everyone.
I just want to point out some of the things that you need to be aware of.
And as far as absolute precision is concerned I am sure that I am not
getting it but from no fault of the saw so to speak. But the more
little areas that can introduce error that are eliminated the less
likely that small error amplifies itself several steps further along in
the project.
> --
> The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
> likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
> than not, unconsidered.
> -- Andre Gide
On 1/24/2012 11:51 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>
>
> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the unit
> you are looking at, at Amazon.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
>
yeah, i saw that one at Lowes yesterday. hmmmmmm. tough decision.
didn't really want to spend that much... I'm a novice woodworker, but
using it for rough construction also. Anythin' will beat that old
hitachi my dad gave me because someone else gave it to him. I think
there's a reason it keeps getting given away. (i'll give it to my son) LOL!
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/24/2012 9:55 AM, m II wrote:
> The ones under $200 with dual bevel and laser from CTC. It comes with a
> finger reattachment kit but not wit Saw-Stop for that price.
>
> Get soft start and laser alignment, for sure. I don't think that unit
> has a laser cutting line. Once you try it you wouldn't be without one
> again.
no, the laser went away when they discontinued the 5412L, it can be had
separately as an add on, however.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 1/24/2012 2:14 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 11:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>
>>
>> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
>> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the unit
>> you are looking at, at Amazon.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
>>
>>
>
> yeah, i saw that one at Lowes yesterday. hmmmmmm. tough decision. didn't
> really want to spend that much... I'm a novice woodworker, but using it
> for rough construction also. Anythin' will beat that old hitachi my dad
> gave me because someone else gave it to him. I think there's a reason it
> keeps getting given away. (i'll give it to my son) LOL!
>
The fact that it does not need space behind the saw for the sliding
mechanism found on the sliders would be a big factor for me and it is
creamy smooth.
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/1/2012 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:29:08 -0600, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>>
>>>> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
>>>> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
>>>
>>> First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
>>> work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>
>> I really sucks, everything but dust. ;-)
>>
>> I bought one of the chop-saw hoods so it doesn't throw it everywhere. I think
>> the problem is that the dust port is too high so there isn't enough suction at
>> the blade to pull dust up to the port. There should be a "scoop" or something
>> behind the blade to deflect the dust upward into the dust port.
>>
>>
>
>yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
Check the port for a large chip. It should work a helluva lot better.
Haven't you hooked up a dust collector or shop vac to it? That should
catch 95%.
My HF SCMS dust collector bag works pretty well, catching about 75%. I
seldom use it on site, though. Grass is a very good collector and
distributor of sawdust.
--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Bullshit!
This is moronic and this was explained before but your ignorant
attitude won't let you see the denial in those statements.
Now go on and pretend you didn't see this but remember when you comment
about it later, you look amazingly transparent,
again, no matter how many of your sock puppets agree with you.
--------------
"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
work properly, we'd hear about it.
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
If you can afford the Bosch, go for it. It's a good choice. Those are
nice saurs. I bought the HF 98194 because I wanted to be able to eat
and pay my truck payment that month, too. Hmm, $800 or $160? It has
been a workhorse for me and is easy to use. The difference in capacity
between it and the old 10" Delta I had is unreal. 12" sliders are
truly wondrous.
--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson
On 2/2/2012 4:57 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
.
>>
>> Check the port for a large chip. It should work a helluva lot better.
>> Haven't you hooked up a dust collector or shop vac to it? That should
>> catch 95%.
>>
>> My HF SCMS dust collector bag works pretty well, catching about 75%. I
>> seldom use it on site, though. Grass is a very good collector and
>> distributor of sawdust.
>>
>> --
>> Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
>> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
>
> no, i have no intention of hooking up yet another pita thing to the saw
> just to catch a little sawdust that will get swept up and vacuumed when
> the project is over.
>
I have to agree with you here Steve that what is the point of hooking up
a vac if you is not going to save you any clean up trouble.
BUT there are exceptions In a closed environment the vac will collect
most of the fine particles which you may be be breathing in otherwise.
It would be more of a safety health issue.
Vac out doors no, in doors yes.
On 2/2/2012 5:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 2/2/2012 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/1/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>>>
>>>> I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>>>> to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>>>
>>>> yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>>>> came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>>>> dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>>>> said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am
>>>> gonna
>>>> sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>>>
>>> The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
>>> thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
>>> particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
>>>
>>> Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
>>> If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
>>> mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
>>> work properly, we'd hear about it.
>>
>> Careful there Dave, you are flirting with what actually happens in the
>> real world, this is a news group. :~)
>
> very good point, Leon. It IS real world experiences that make the
> differences, not what some pencil pusher says a product will do.
>
There you go!
On 1/24/2012 11:51 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>
>
> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and the
> Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the unit you are
> looking at, at Amazon.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
Ah yes, the articulating (not sliding) version. A very nice machine; that
would probably be my choice if I were in the market.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 1/24/2012 8:27 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> As a kid I grew up in the 60s and 70s when corded hand tools were becoming
> popular for homeowners. I didn't have a chance to work with good woodworking
> hand tools as a kid... It took working at Colonial Williamsburg, VA, at the
> transition from my 20s to 30s, to learn that you can do fine work with no
> electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of nice,
> sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
<Steve Turner likes this>
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Read the specs really carefully....
Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.
Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.
Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.
http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categories/machinery-miter-saws.aspx#
On 1/24/2012 3:10 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
>
> How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is that
> just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?
>
On 1/25/2012 11:38 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 10:31 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>>> electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
>>> nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...
>>
>> Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
>> so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
>> Anything to make the job easier and faster.
>>
>> I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
>> out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.
>
>
> I have a Tormek. I cannot really say that I like it. I works as advertised but
> has inherent issues IMHO.
My buddy has a Tormek; I have the Makita 9820 horizontal wet wheel sharpener.
I prefer the Makita, and I think my buddy does too, although it spins at a much
higher rate of speed than the Tormek and has the potential to make a helluva mess.
> Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp 3000.
I've been hearing a lot of good things about the WorkSharp units. I've never
seen or tried one, but I would certainly be interested to see if it works any
better (with less mess!) than the Makita.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>
> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
;-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
>I suspect they probably have the K$N air filter syndrome. No one likes
>to admit after they spend bucoo bucks that they screwed up.
>yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
The first paragraph above is a comment you made from the SawStop
thread and the second paragraph is you commenting about how a
particular aspect of a tool is a joke.
Thanks for making my point. SawStop, dust hood, whatever, people talk.
If the SawStop didn't perform to specs, people would talk. It doesn't
mater what kind of prevention Gass might take, if the SawStop didn't
work properly, we'd hear about it.
The ones under $200 with dual bevel and laser from CTC. It comes with a
finger reattachment kit but not wit Saw-Stop for that price.
Get soft start and laser alignment, for sure. I don't think that unit
has a laser cutting line. Once you try it you wouldn't be without one
again.
-----------
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
Bullshit!
Coarser teeth take larger bites and make more grain splits no matter
how slow you feed the work.
------------
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
A blade with 20 teeth turning at 4000 rpm will produce as smooth of a
cut as a 40 tooth blade at 2000 rpm assuming feed rate is the same for
both.
SO you do not have to have a 80 tooth cross cut blade to produce a
smooth cut if you simply feed a 40 tooth blade at about half the speed.
But yes the faster the blade spins with all things being equal the
smoother the cut will be.
I have the LS1013, and when it dies, I hope to own the Festool, or the
Bosch gliding. The 1016 is not as nice in my opinion as my 1013. The
table on the 1013 is what I love, big and beautiful. The saw has been
accurate. I like the Kapex due to its light weight. When you need it,
it's a lot easier to carry a light weight saw than a truck (Bosch).
One more thing the Kapex is rated highest in dust collection, surprising
results every reviewer said. So that's kind of neat too.
At nearly twice the price, I hope I don't need it for a while, but if I
do, you mostly get what you pay for.
On 1/24/2012 1:39 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>
> I own a Makita LS1013 and love it. I would look at their current
> offering, the LS1016. From my experience with Bosch tools I'm sure
> you would like the 5412 if that's what you decide on.
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:40:01 -0500, "TimDrouillard"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I love my Festool.
For $1500, it's all I'd have to love. Well, that and the dog house. ;-)
Leon wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>
>
> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the
> unit you are looking at, at Amazon.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is
that just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?
--
Gerald Ross
Sorry, I forgot all about the Amnesia Conference!
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:47:29 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>I let my kids use all my tools... even the Lie-Nielson planes and saws in
>preference to the old Stanley and Millers Falls tools. It is not reasonable
>to expect kids to have good results with junk tools nor like working with
>tools that perform poorly.
I can remember at 5 years of age, using my father's chisels to open
paint cans. Needless to say, I destroyed more than one. But, my
chiseling paint cans didn't last long. My father gave me my own set of
chisels and I realized soon enough that they didn't work anymore after
breaking one or two. I paid attention when it was *my* tools being put
to misuse. That lesson has stayed with me more than 50 years.
BTW John. My spell checker crapped out on your last name. You owe me a
new one. :)
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:10:47 -0500, Gerald Ross <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>> On 1/24/2012 9:37 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>
>>
>> If I were to buy another it would be a toss up between the Festool and
>> the Bosch GCM12SD. This particular Bosch is only $164 more than the
>> unit you are looking at, at Amazon.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-GCM12SD-120-Volt-12-Inch-Glide/dp/B004323NNC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1327427361&sr=1-1
>
>How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is
>that just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?
That's jaw opening, not cutting depth.
--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:05:34 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jan 24, 3:45 pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> If you can afford the Bosch, go for it. It's a good choice. Those are
>> nice saurs. I bought the HF 98194 because I wanted to be able to eat
>> and pay my truck payment that month, too. Hmm, $800 or $160? It has
>> been a workhorse for me and is easy to use. The difference in capacity
>> between it and the old 10" Delta I had is unreal. 12" sliders are
>> truly wondrous.
>
>Well, since you brought it up...
>
>My amigo that builds decks and gazebos got tired of his good sliders
>being banged up at the end of the day when loaded into the truck. As
>you know, those big saws are fine when on a table, but unwieldy to
>handle.
>
>He bought one of HF slider saws and took apart the glides and cleaned
>them all up. He showed me the rags; I am not sure they did any
>cleaning after machining and polishing. It was really full of dirty
>oil, metal powder, and unidentified crud. He put some light grease on
>part of it, graphite on the rest, and man is that thing smooth.
>
>It is perfect for him. He bought the extended "no questions asked"
>warranty for it for something like $15, and he has used the crap out
>of it. He loves it. Of course, unlike his DeWalts and Makitas, he
>can't kill this saw or beat it to pieces from rough handling. We have
>decided that they must make it at the same plant where they make those
>unstoppable 4" grinders.
You mean the unstoppable $10 4" grinders, right? <g>
>If I was doing more rough work, I wouldn't look any farther. They had
If I were making furniture, I might rethink it, but this is mostly for
decks. I'm also still eyeing a plunge cut saw as a replacement for
Dina. That will leave me with the little Ryobi portable table saur.
>the 12" slider on sale here locally, the same one he bought, for $139.
>For a guy on a budget, or one that knows his specific use for a tool
>that's pretty tough to beat.
Good to hear.
--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson
On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:29:08 -0600, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>> <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>
>> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
>> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
>
>First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
>work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
>
>;-)
I really sucks, everything but dust. ;-)
I bought one of the chop-saw hoods so it doesn't throw it everywhere. I think
the problem is that the dust port is too high so there isn't enough suction at
the blade to pull dust up to the port. There should be a "scoop" or something
behind the blade to deflect the dust upward into the dust port.
On 2/1/2012 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:29:08 -0600, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>
>>> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
>>> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
>>
>> First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
>> work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
>>
>> ;-)
>
> I really sucks, everything but dust. ;-)
>
> I bought one of the chop-saw hoods so it doesn't throw it everywhere. I think
> the problem is that the dust port is too high so there isn't enough suction at
> the blade to pull dust up to the port. There should be a "scoop" or something
> behind the blade to deflect the dust upward into the dust port.
>
>
yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:16:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>I was pretty much set on the makita (either 10 or 12") for about a year,
>until i started reading reviews.. Seems the motor can be wasted in a
>matter of seconds if it happens to get stalled with the direct drive.
You need to take part in a Festool demo day. And then, take advantage
of their 30 day satisfaction guaranteed offer. After that, you can
consider your money really gone.
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:19:16 -0600, Steve Barker
>> The Festool Owners Group is full of people who were of the same
>> opinion as you. You should check it out.
>i'm not so closed minded as to never explore. Got a link?
http://festoolownersgroup.com/
BTW, the group is not just Festool centric. They discuss all brands of
tools and other things, minus the politics and the cursing about
SawStop.
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:32:18 -0800, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:30:23 -0600, Steve Barker
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 2/1/2012 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:29:08 -0600, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/29/2012 10:40 PM, TimDrouillard wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:37:19 -0600, Steve Barker
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, at the risk of a severe flaming, what miter saw does everyone like?
>>>>>> I'm leaning towards the Bosch 5412... don't hit me too hard. LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> I like mine, except that its dust collection sucks. Even with a DC attached
>>>>> to the dust port it throws an incredible amount of dust around.
>>>>
>>>> First you say the dust collection sucks, then you imply that it doesn't
>>>> work very well. Make up your mind, will ya?
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> I really sucks, everything but dust. ;-)
>>>
>>> I bought one of the chop-saw hoods so it doesn't throw it everywhere. I think
>>> the problem is that the dust port is too high so there isn't enough suction at
>>> the blade to pull dust up to the port. There should be a "scoop" or something
>>> behind the blade to deflect the dust upward into the dust port.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>yes, i went ahead and bought the 5412 and the dust port is a joke. It
>>came with this little wire supported bag thingy and i've made maybe two
>>dozen cuts and there is not one speck of sawdust in the bag. Having
>>said all that, it doesn't bother me, because i have a broom and am gonna
>>sweep up afterwards anyway. I expect saw dust in a wood working area.
>
>Check the port for a large chip. It should work a helluva lot better.
>Haven't you hooked up a dust collector or shop vac to it? That should
>catch 95%.
Nope. No factory installed wood chips. ;-) If it catches 1%, it's a lot.
>My HF SCMS dust collector bag works pretty well, catching about 75%.
Yes, my HF SCMS works reasonably well with a vacuum. The Bosch, not so much.
> I
>seldom use it on site, though. Grass is a very good collector and
>distributor of sawdust.
Outside is one thing, in the house is a different kettle o' fish. The HF goes
outside, where dust isn't a problem. ;-)
There is teeth count to consider also but within limits of it's
clearing ability. (teeth get too small)
I don't see any significant difference in surface speed. I haven't
rechecked your RPM speeds offered. I remember one 12" rated at around
3500 RPM and I thought an old chop saw I had ran at 4800 RPM but that
is all from memory of my mom's equipment in her basement...LOL
-----
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12
inch
dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying
this is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell
you from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the
game. The faster, the better the cut.
That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
anything larger than a 10" saw.
They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop
the new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**
-------------
"Pat Barber" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Read the specs really carefully....
Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.
Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.
Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.
http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categories/machinery-miter-saws.aspx#
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:14:39 -0600, Steve Barker
>using it for rough construction also. Anythin' will beat that old
>hitachi my dad gave me because someone else gave it to him. I think
>there's a reason it keeps getting given away. (i'll give it to my son) LOL!
Obviously, it's a clandestine attempt to stop children from using your
*good* tools. ~ Doesn't work anymore. Kids these days have an
unusually developed sense of entitlement.
On 1/25/2012 2:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 1/25/2012 1:04 PM, m II wrote:
>> That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
>> decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
>> anything larger than a 10" saw.
>>
>> They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop the
>> new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**
>>
>>
>> -------------
>> "Pat Barber" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Read the specs really carefully....
>>
>> Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.
>>
>> Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
>> straight up.
>>
>> Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.
>>
>> http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categories/machinery-miter-saws.aspx#
>
> you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
> cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12 inch
> dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
> 135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying this
> is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell you
> from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the game.
> The faster, the better the cut.
>
A blade with 20 teeth turning at 4000 rpm will produce as smooth of a
cut as a 40 tooth blade at 2000 rpm assuming feed rate is the same for both.
SO you do not have to have a 80 tooth cross cut blade to produce a
smooth cut if you simply feed a 40 tooth blade at about half the speed.
But yes the faster the blade spins with all things being equal the
smoother the cut will be.