On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
to the collection.
So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and
who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find
any online?
For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a
cabinet scraper. I think I could probably pass on the planes designed
for smoothing rough lumber since I'm most likely to use the jointer and
planer, then switch to the planes for finer work. Basically, I'd like
to avoid sanding while using planes in situations where it's not much
slower than setting up a machine. For example, using a jointer plane
to edge-joint two boards. I'm also liking the veritas shoulder planes.
For the specialty planes, I see lee valley has a router plane that
looks nice. I'd like to find a good (and probably expensive)
combination plane. I can see cutting grooves in rails shaker style
rails and styles with this rather than setting up the router. Maybe a
plough plane. Something for making dados, or even sliding dovetails.
A bunch of planes for making details like beads and coves, although the
combination could probably do this. Then roy was demonstrating a
matched set of tongue and groove planes. Anyway, where do I get this
stuff? Who still makes them?
brian
I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
that roy underhill was using?
brian
I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
go into the specialty plane making business. :-)
brian
I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
garage-saling looking for some old planes.
brian
Doug Payne wrote:
> On 31/01/2006 11:30 PM, brianlanning wrote:
>
> > But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
> > than ebay.
>
> Nothin' wrong with eBay. I've bought 2 really nice Stanley 45's there in
> the past while for less than $200 each. One was complete (well, except
> for the nosing tool and the hollows and rounds, which were always
> optional extras), one was missing a couple of parts that I was easily
> able to find and buy inexpensively, also on eBay. ...
I have to disagree with the "nothing wrong with Ebay comment."
Back when I was buyin on Ebay lot of sellers put the words "complete
and undamaged" into their descritptions even though they were
selling planes that were incomplete or damaged. In some cases
that was probably ignorance, some sellers perhaps do not know that
a #78 is supposed to have a depth stop and fillister. Certainly there
were a near equal number of seelers apologizing for the 'missing'
front blade on their #78s.
However a significant number were just plain careless, and some
were outright frauds.
I used to compare the descriptions to the pictures and when there
was a a discrepency I would send a_polite_ email pointing this out
to the buyer. E.g. a plane with a big chunk broken out of the cheek
described as 'undamaged'. About a third of the time there was no
reply from the seller. The two thirds that did reply were about
evenly dividen between "Thanks, we didn't notice/know and have
revised the description" and "Piss off, if you don't like it don't bid
on it."
--
FF
be sure to discuss this with the winner
Let me start with the #45 (or #55 if you want the Cadillac model)
Like a chisel plane, it has no "mouth" and no "chip breaker", both
needed for fine, controlled shavings. THAT means that the wood
must be as close to MDF as you can find because the iron WILL try
and follow the grain. Not a problem when cutting "downhill"
- but if the grain changes direction and you start cutting "uphill" . .
.
I picked up an old #45 at one of the City of Austin Garage
Sales - for a wopping $80. Also picked up the T&G plane
with the flip around fence (fence in position 1 to cut
the groove, flip it around and cut one side of the tongue
then go to the other side of the board and cut the other
side. Spent lots and lots of time getting all the "irons"
flat backed and sharp and still had "challenges" getting
them to work - even adequately.
But if you want to dabble a bit before jumping in with
both feet, check out the LN Beading Tool. It's a beautiful
shiny bronze spoke shave like tool with a set of neat
scraper/scratcher type cutters that'll do beads and half
round grooves, etc.
For the results these types of planes "do", a router
bit will do it a lot better and a lot faster with better
repeatability.
The larger of the two router planes is a tool that
lets you fine tune the depth of a dado or rabbet/
rebate. Also comes in handy for leveling the
"field"/background around a carving.
Another handy hand plane is an adjustable
mouth block plane. Chamfer/ease edges, chamfer
the ends of tenons to make it easier to align with
a mortise etc.. Better yet, the LN Rabbet Block
Plane - a block plane with a special iron that,
at the bottom 3/4 of an inch, is just slightly
wider than the plane body, which has openings
on both sides to accomodate the special iron.
Works like a block plane AND lets you trim
up tenons and deepen a rabbet/rebate a little.
A much overlooked neander tool is the marking
knife. Pencils are great for writing and drawing
but not good enough for joint layout marks AND
scribe lines can't be rubbed off - accidentally
or by intent. You want a "left" and "right" single
bevel knife, each with a long bevel and sharp
point.
just more to confuse you
charlie b
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
> combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
> suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
> addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
> garage-saling looking for some old planes.
>
Molding planes were a specialty item even when they were the only option.
Accounts for their relative rarity, and their relatively good condition when
found. They were a cabinetmaker's necessity, and a significant expense.
The rest of the world just chamfered or rounded things over.
Oh yes, they also worked lousy in wood with any but the straightest grain,
which was much more commonly available then.
By a dust mask and go mechanical.
> No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:
>
> <http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg> for $250
>
> All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need or
> want.
YES but that is a *plow plane*, pertinent to the OP request, there is a big
difference. Unless it is viable to get into grinding and hardening blades of
other shapes that will fit it...or paying extra for them. Could work.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
> a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
> interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
> all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
> Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
> to the collection.
> snip
http://www.planemaker.com/
They will knock your socks off.
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
>> mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
>> and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean,
>> other than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the
>> antiques that roy underhill was using?
>>
>> brian
>>
>
> For new T&G planes I agree with Lowell's mentioning, you would have to
> talk to them. There is also the Clifton multi-plane made by Clico
> tooling in England but no one stocks it anymore because it was far too
> expensive, to the tune of $869.xx -aroos...you know. But any company
> that used to stock it should be able to order one.
> http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ Is Highland Hardware, they had
> it. Any Clifton dealer can get it.
>
> There is also Anant multi-planes made in India and no doubt utter
> garbage, which would take massive amounts of fettling and tuning to
> make it work properly. Anant is also sold by HH.
>
> That's about it. Otherwise it's the bay or online old tool sellers,
> local junk shops, antique malls and yard sales. That's where it's at.
>
No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:
<http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg> for $250
All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need or
want.
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
> combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
> suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
> addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
> garage-saling looking for some old planes.
>
> brian
>
>
Do you really Need a combination plane? Do you really think you will use
'all the extra cutters'? Are you really going to cut your own moulding? If
so, how much? Hundreds of feet per year or just a few? Picture doing
hundreds of feet by hand. Picture paying several hundred dollars to do a
few feet per year. Then think about a decent router and some bits.
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
> mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
> and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
> than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
> that roy underhill was using?
Try here:
<http://www.knight-toolworks.com/speciality.htm>
>
> brian
>
>
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly
> a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me
> interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made
> all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy
> Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes
> to the collection.
>
> So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and
> who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find
> any online?
>
> For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a
> cabinet scraper. I think I could probably pass on the planes designed
> for smoothing rough lumber since I'm most likely to use the jointer and
> planer, then switch to the planes for finer work. Basically, I'd like
> to avoid sanding while using planes in situations where it's not much
> slower than setting up a machine. For example, using a jointer plane
> to edge-joint two boards. I'm also liking the veritas shoulder planes.
>
> For the specialty planes, I see lee valley has a router plane that
> looks nice. I'd like to find a good (and probably expensive)
> combination plane. I can see cutting grooves in rails shaker style
> rails and styles with this rather than setting up the router. Maybe a
> plough plane. Something for making dados, or even sliding dovetails.
> A bunch of planes for making details like beads and coves, although the
> combination could probably do this. Then roy was demonstrating a
> matched set of tongue and groove planes. Anyway, where do I get this
> stuff? Who still makes them?
>
> brian
>
It sounds like you have the woodworking bug bad, congratulations! My
suggesstion is to slow way down and invest in wood instead of tools. Pick
projects to work on instead of drooling over the tool porn catalogs. With
each project you will develop new skills and interests. Let the projects
lead you to the correct tools to purchase.
On 1 Feb 2006 20:07:02 -0800, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
>thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
>to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
>One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
>go into the specialty plane making business. :-)
>
Yep, you're sure to save as much money making planes (or make as much if
you are selling them) as you save making your own furniture. ;-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:
>>
>> <http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/plowplane2.jpg> for $250
>>
>> All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need
>> or want.
>
>
> YES but that is a *plow plane*, pertinent to the OP request, there is
> a big difference. Unless it is viable to get into grinding and
> hardening blades of other shapes that will fit it...or paying extra
> for them. Could work.
>
Certainly would be cheaper than a Clifton. And how many people actually cut
their own molding by hand? If I wanted to do it, I'd much prefer wooden
molding planes and I own a Sargent 45 clone.
On 31/01/2006 11:30 PM, brianlanning wrote:
> But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
> than ebay.
Nothin' wrong with eBay. I've bought 2 really nice Stanley 45's there in
the past while for less than $200 each. One was complete (well, except
for the nosing tool and the hollows and rounds, which were always
optional extras), one was missing a couple of parts that I was easily
able to find and buy inexpensively, also on eBay. (Before you ask,
they're not for sale; one's mine and the second was for my sin-in-law).
You just have to be patient and watch the sellers' feedback, and ask
lots of questions. You can quickly get a sense of who's honest. Just for
fun I dragged out my old LV catalogues the other night. Back in '81/82 a
Record 405 (Stanley 45 equiv.) sold new for $400 CDN. If you want to
spend less for a 45, look for a Record 050C. Not as 'nice', but I used
one for years until I decided to get a 45. Still have it. Still use it.
You should be able to find a good one for $50-60.
> I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you
> mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes
> and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other
> than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques
> that roy underhill was using?
>
> brian
>
For new T&G planes I agree with Lowell's mentioning, you would have to talk
to them. There is also the Clifton multi-plane made by Clico tooling in England
but no one stocks it anymore because it was far too expensive, to the tune of
$869.xx -aroos...you know. But any company that used to stock it should be able
to order one. http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/ Is Highland Hardware,
they had it. Any Clifton dealer can get it.
There is also Anant multi-planes made in India and no doubt utter garbage, which
would take massive amounts of fettling and tuning to make it work properly.
Anant is also sold by HH.
That's about it. Otherwise it's the bay or online old tool sellers, local junk shops,
antique malls and yard sales. That's where it's at.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
brianlanning wrote:
> I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
> thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
> to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
> One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
> go into the specialty plane making business. :-)
>
> brian
>
Don't look at the price of a Sauer & Steiner!
dave
On 31 Jan 2006 14:27:40 -0800, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and
>who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find
>any online?
I REALLY like Veritas (Lee Valley) for feature & quality to value
ratio.
I don't know why you couldn't find good planes online <G>!
Veritas, Lie Nielsen, Clifton, Knight, ECE, etc... are sold all over
the 'net:
<http://www.leevalley.com/wood/index.aspx>
<http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=toolshop>
<http://www.knight-toolworks.com/>
<http://www.thebestthings.com/tools.htm>
<http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/index.asp>
<http://www.hartvilletool.com/index.php>
Just to name a few places...
>For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a
>cabinet scraper.
I dimension with machines, just like you, and use the following hand
planes the most:
Veritas low angle block
Veritas medium and large shoulder planes
Old Stanley #4 with a Hock iron.
The Stanley #4 with a Hock iron took a lot of fettling to get right.
If I was doing it again, I'd just buy the Veritas and spend the time
working wood. Like fettling? Get old planes.
I also have and use on a regular basis, but not in the top three, and
in no particular order:
Veritas #6
Stanley #5 w/ Hock (see the #4 comment)
Veritas apron plane
Cheapie standard block
Card scrapers (Straight & Shaped)
Veritas cabinet scraper
GOOD rasps (not planes, but underrated and REALLY handy!)
I actually use the #6 and apron plane most often in finish carpentry.
Tasks like trimming door edges, molding fits, and miter tuning come to
mind
Not used by me on a regular basis, but very necessary when needed:
(I'd buy them when needed for the first time for a project)
Veritas spoke shaves
Veritas Bullnose
Good, or to some folks, possibly better alternatives to what I've got:
Top Three:
LN Rabbet Block
Clifton medium shoulder
LN large shoulder
LN, Veritas, or Clifton #4
I can't stress the overall _value_ of Veritas planes enough. LN are
fan-freakin' tastic, but expensive. In different schools, I've had
the valuable opportunity to use LN, Clifton, Veritas, and well cared
for old Stanley stuff on an extended basis, so I was able to get some
good understanding of the differences. ALL of them _worked_ great
when sharpened and tuned properly. I think none of them would
disappoint.
I haven't done very much with router planes, scratch stocks, wooden
planes, etc... so I shouldn't comment on them.
The most important thing I have related to hand tools is my sharpening
tools and the proper instruction I received to sharpen them. All of
my hand tools are useless junk if they're dull.
Got good chisels yet? Did I mention how well a quality rasp can
work? <G>
Barry
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided.
>thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems
>to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous.
>One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should
>go into the specialty plane making business. :-)
>
>brian
Check out http://www.holteyplanes.com/
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
On 1 Feb 2006 20:09:32 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a
>combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would
>suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in
>addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start
>garage-saling looking for some old planes.
Ping me offline, Brian.
--
- Tom Mix Died For Your Sins -
--------------------------
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