In article <[email protected]>, Swingman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote in message:
>
> > "Swingman" wrote in message
> > > ... is a class act!
>
> > Un like some polititions.
>
> You got the point right off the bat, Leon! :) ... _compared to most American
> politicians_, who flat out REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS,
> whether it be driving off a bridge, killing someone and then running the
> other way; pandering sex to a page, or in an airport; or worst of all ...
> ignoring the issues bringing this country to its knees.
She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
She's yet another disgrace to track and field. I have no sympathy for
her, and no admiration of any kind.
She's a cheat and a liar who got caught, plain and simple.
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In article <[email protected]>, Swingman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> If Marion Jones proves to be sincere she will have the opportunity to set a
> better example than she ever could have hoped as someone whose sole
> contribution to society was to run in circles for the gratification of the
> "sports fan".
An example of what? Someone who was prepared to continue lying, even
under oath, about her cheating, forever?
She's no shining example of truth, integrity, and honour, and she never
will be. I hope she's stripped of her medals (has she offered to return
them and requested that her records be expunged? If not, will she?).
May she end up like Ben Johnson, a tragic parody of herself living the
rest of her life under a cloud of shame.
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In article <[email protected]>, Swingman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
>
> > May she end up like Ben Johnson, a tragic parody of herself living the
> > rest of her life under a cloud of shame.
>
> Damn, sports fans are a tough lot ... one just wishes they would be equally
> harsh on their elected leaders.
I don't care about sports AT ALL. I follow no professional sport, have
no favorite teams. I think the whole "pro sport" nonsense is a giant
scam that separates suckers from their money.
Nor do I follow so-called "amateur elite sport" which is nothing of the
kind.
And I'm curious how you think you know what my attitude is toward my
"elected leaders" or how harsh I am on them in public or private.
>
> An apparent irreconcilable difference in the belief that humans can indeed
> be forgiven their transgressions is not worth a continuing argument.
Forgiven? Certainly. Held up as a hero for our young people for getting
caught? Not bloody likely.
>
> My personal hope is she becomes a productive example to the young of this
> country of what NOT to do.
She became that when she got caught. My beef with you is that you seem
to think she somehow deserves not only respect but admiration for
lying, getting caught, and then sobbing on camera.
>
> ... time will tell.
Indeed.
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In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
> >
> >She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
>
> In comparison to professional cyclists who get caught red handed and
> refuse to give in to the facts, ever... They just keep filing
> "defensive" lawsuits.
That excuses her behaviour?
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In article <[email protected]>, Swingman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dave Balderstone" wrote
>
> > I don't care about sports AT ALL. I follow no professional sport, have
> > no favorite teams. I think the whole "pro sport" nonsense is a giant
> > scam that separates suckers from their money.
>
> > Nor do I follow so-called "amateur elite sport" which is nothing of the
> > kind.
> >
> > And I'm curious how you think you know what my attitude is toward my
> > "elected leaders" or how harsh I am on them in public or private.
>
> Sorry, I had no idea who Ben Jonson" was/is, and assumed, obviously wrongly,
> that anyone who would bring him into the conversation would logically know,
> and therefore be a "sports fan" of some sort.
No, just Canadian. Ben is still something of a national sore spot up
here.
> Yeah, I know all about "assumptions" ... my apology.
>
> It's not your attitude ... but the fact that this lady ran around in
> circles, on foot, in some manner that wasn't kosher, obviously a dastardly
> deed, but not in the same league, relatively speaking, with the truly evil
> in the world.
>
> That we are losing our perspective on these things as a society is
> inarguable, IMO.
I actually think there's a cogent argument to made to drop all drug
testing in sport, professional and otherwise.
If people want to risk death, cancer, and insanity in the pursuit of
hitting a ball, running in circles, or beating each other up, it
doesn't hurt my feelings.
Let the market decide, knowing that it's probable the pricks are doping.
The problem is when people like Jones and Johnson (or Clinton, Kerry,
etc) want to deceive the market and still profit.
It's the same problem, at a basic level, that you're talking about in
politics. People cheating the system for profit.
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In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
> news:061020071106543660%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> >
> > She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
> >
> > She's yet another disgrace to track and field. I have no sympathy for
> > her, and no admiration of any kind.
> >
> > She's a cheat and a liar who got caught, plain and simple.
>
>
> But you have to give her credit in this day and age that she has admitted to
> doing wrong and seems to be truly remorseful. Unlike, a certain politician
> that gets caught, confesses, recants, decides to resign, then recants again.
The logic doesn't follow.
One cheat and liar doesn't repent, so any cheat and liar who does
repent is deserving of admiration?
Nonsense.
She's deserving only of our contempt. She cheated and lied, and weeps
crocodile tears ONLY because she was caught. If she hadn't been caught,
she'd still be claiming she never used steroids.
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On Oct 6, 1:06 pm, Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca>
wrote:
>
> She's a cheat and a liar who got caught, plain and simple.
>
I think they should just allow any and all performance enhancing drugs
in all sports.
Hell, let them put enough nitrous oxide up their asses to propel them
to 2 second 100 yard dashes and then watch them explode at the medal
ceremony.
Have them wear Pfizer and Smith-Klyne logos on their shirts.
The Oxycontin Nationals!!
I appreciate the fact that Jones humiliated herself on TV, but I can't
help but think that some of that is motivated by the fact that she
really didn't have any other options.
She bobbed and weaved for 7 years proclaiming that none of it was ever
her fault.
So what's next? Rehab and finding Jesus? The speaking engagements for
money?
I also watched Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart cry on TV... of course
they were sorry.
But I do agree that she's a much bigger mensch than so many
politicians... in that light, she looks pretty good.
On Oct 6, 12:53 pm, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
>
> Dunno. She was /such/ a phenomenon as a young teenager and showed so
> much promise before the drugs.
As do so many young wide-eyed budding politicians who at the outset
have truly wonderful ideas to make our nations better. Then they come
to a fork in the road where they need to make a very big decision: do
I stick up for what I believe in, or do I sell my soul so I can
compete...and then maybe do good things later..
Problem is, that when you sell your soul...you are owned. You take
that first 'campaign contribution' from that developer who needs your
vote in council for that re-zoning... that one-time cocktail to make
you that wee bit faster to qualify for that big race...
To perpetuate the 'soul-selling' metaphor, perfectly good people
getting 'managed' by Satan's spawn. The record industry, sports,
politics. Once you sell out...you can cry all you want.
>The real heartbreak is that neither she
> (or her son) or any of us will ever know just how great she might've
> been with nothing more than her natural ability and strength of
> spirit.
Yeah.... it's the lack of 'strength of spirit' and lure of that pink
Hummer, 2.5 million dollars home.
>
> It just seems so insanely unnecessary. :-(
It is sad. But in the end, one pays for bad choices.
The saddest things are those that could have been prevented.
The drunk killing the child with his car.
The track star who willingly shoots herself up to win...not so much.
On Oct 5, 8:28 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > ... is a class act!
>
> > --
> >www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 9/30/07
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> Un like some polititions. Oddly, it was told that for the National Track
> And Field Hall of Fame in New York to remove Jones images and
> accomplishments it would cost $200,000.00.
Hillary Clinton said that her childhood dream was to be an Olympic
athlete. But she was not athletic enough. She said she wanted to
be an
astronaut, but at the time they didn't take women. She said she
wanted
to go into medicine, but hospitals made her woozy. Should she
be
telling people this story? I mean she's basically saying she
wants to
be president because she can't do anything else.
--Jay Leno
"Well, the big story -- Hillary Clinton will be running for
president
in 2008. You know why I think she's running? I think she finally
wants
to see &nbs p;what it's like to sleep in the president's bed."
--Jay Leno
"Top Democrats have mixed feeli ngs about Sen. Hillary Clinton
running
for president. Apparently, some Democrats don't like the idea,
while
others hate it."
--Conan O'Brien
"In a fiery speech this weekend, Hillary Clinton wondered why
President
Bush can't find the tallest man in Afghanistan. Probably for the
same
reason she couldn't find the fattest intern under the desk."
--Jay Leno
"Former President Bill Clinton said that if his wife, Hillary,
is
elected president, he will do whatever she wants. You know Bill
Clinton -- when he makes a vow to Hillary, you can take that to
the
bank."
--Jay Leno
A student from the University of Washington has sold his soul on
eBay
for $400. He's a law student, so he probably doesn't need it, but
still, that's not very much.Today, Hillary Clinton said, 'Hey, at
least
I got some furniture and a Senate seat for mine."
-Jay Leno
"Hillary Clinton said today that she wants legislation to allow
all
ex-felons to vote. See, this way all the Clinton's former
business
partners can vote for her in 2008."
--Jay Leno
Hillary Clinton's 506-page memoirs have come out. So much of her
personality shines through, that in the end, you, too, will want
to
sleep with an intern."
-- Craig Kilborn
In Hillary Clinton's new book 'Living History,' Hillary details
what it
was like meeting Bill Clinton, falling in love with him, getting
married, and living a passionate, wonderful life as husband and
wife.
Then on page two, the trouble starts."
-- Jay Leno
"In the book, she says when Bill told her he was having an
affair, she
said "I could hardly breathe, I was gulping for air. No, I'm
sorry,
that's what Monica said."
-- David Letterman
; "Last night, Senator Hillary Clinton hosted her first party in
her new
home in Washington. People said it was a lot like the parties
she used
to host at the White House. In fact, even the furniture was the
same."
-- Jay Leno
"Senator Hillary Clinton is attacking President Bush for breaking
his
campaign promise to cut carbon dioxide emissions, saying a
promise
made, a promise broken. And then out of habit, she demanded
that Bush
spend the night on the couch."
-- Craig Kilborn
"Hillary Clinton is the junior senator from the great state of
New
York. When they swore her in, she used the Clinton family
Bible. . .the one with only seven commandments."
- -David Letterman
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote in message:
>
>> "Swingman" wrote in message
>> > ... is a class act!
>
>> Un like some polititions.
>
> You got the point right off the bat, Leon! :) ... _compared to most
> American
> politicians_, who flat out REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR
> ACTIONS,
> whether it be driving off a bridge, killing someone and then running the
> other way; pandering sex to a page, or in an airport; or worst of all ...
> ignoring the issues bringing this country to its knees.
Marion Jones should be a much more respected person NOW than before.
Before, she was an athlete that did not really contribute to society other
than for entertainment. Now that she has admitted to being human, making
mistakes, and taking responsibility for her actions she is setting a fine
example of how a person should start correcting a wrong.
Swingman wrote:
| "Leon" wrote
|
|| Marion Jones should be a much more respected person NOW than
|| before. Before, she was an athlete that did not really contribute
|| to society other than for entertainment. Now that she has
|| admitted to being human, making mistakes, and taking
|| responsibility for her actions she is setting a fine example of
|| how a person should start correcting a wrong.
|
| Glad to hear that you had the same take on the situation that I did.
| Watching the FULL news conference, not the edited "soundbites" on
| later channels (which obviously mislead O'Reilly), I was impressed
| by what appeared to be a sincere contriteness, AND the fact that
| neither The Rev Jesse, nor brother Sharpton, were on hand to play
| the race card.
|
| Hope it stays that way.
Dunno. She was /such/ a phenomenon as a young teenager and showed so
much promise before the drugs. The real heartbreak is that neither she
(or her son) or any of us will ever know just how great she might've
been with nothing more than her natural ability and strength of
spirit.
It just seems so insanely unnecessary. :-(
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
> May she end up like Ben Johnson, a tragic parody of herself living the
> rest of her life under a cloud of shame.
Damn, sports fans are a tough lot ... one just wishes they would be equally
harsh on their elected leaders.
An apparent irreconcilable difference in the belief that humans can indeed
be forgiven their transgressions is not worth a continuing argument.
My personal hope is she becomes a productive example to the young of this
country of what NOT to do.
... time will tell.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Dave Balderstone" wrote
> She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
Well damn her! .... how _human_ of her to go and do that! :)
> She's yet another disgrace to track and field.
Only if you care more than a warm bucket of spit about "track and field".
> I have no sympathy for
> her, and no admiration of any kind.
Good ... because that was precisely what she stated she was NOT looking for,
particularly from those who had looked up to her, like kids.
> She's a cheat and a liar who got caught, plain and simple.
And so she amply/repeatedly stated.
Now back to the point ... there are plenty _still in public office_ who fit
that description, to a much greater detriment to the country, and who will
never take responsibility for their cheating and lying.
If Marion Jones proves to be sincere she will have the opportunity to set a
better example than she ever could have hoped as someone whose sole
contribution to society was to run in circles for the gratification of the
"sports fan".
IMO, that will be much worse than "disgracing track and field".
But, that's just my opinion ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:01:54 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Has anybody ever tried to push "baseball cards" for politicians?
That's funny!
Votes - L
Campaigns - Both
Stance - Wide
<G>
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Dean H." wrote
> Problem is... people are more interested in spectator sports than
politics.
> They care more about sports stats than congresspeoples' voting records.
Duly noted ... also the prediction that they will eventually "rue the day"
is a no brainer.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
>> Dunno. She was /such/ a phenomenon as a young teenager and showed so
>> much promise before the drugs.
>
> As do so many young wide-eyed budding politicians who at the outset
> have truly wonderful ideas to make our nations better. Then they come
> to a fork in the road where they need to make a very big decision: do
> I stick up for what I believe in, or do I sell my soul so I can
> compete...and then maybe do good things later..
Problem is... people are more interested in spectator sports than politics.
They care more about sports stats than congresspeoples' voting records.
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 08:39:56 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was impressed by what
>appeared to be a sincere contriteness, AND the fact that neither The Rev
>Jesse, nor brother Sharpton, were on hand to play the race card.
>
>Hope it stays that way.
I hope some pro cyclists follow suit!
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Dean H. wrote:
>>> Dunno. She was /such/ a phenomenon as a young teenager and showed
>>> so
>>> much promise before the drugs.
>>
>> As do so many young wide-eyed budding politicians who at the outset
>> have truly wonderful ideas to make our nations better. Then they
>> come
>> to a fork in the road where they need to make a very big decision:
>> do
>> I stick up for what I believe in, or do I sell my soul so I can
>> compete...and then maybe do good things later..
>
> Problem is... people are more interested in spectator sports than
> politics. They care more about sports stats than congresspeoples'
> voting records.
Has anybody ever tried to push "baseball cards" for politicians?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:53:36 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>That excuses her behaviour?
Not at all.
She's simply a large notch above them for 'fessing up. But in the
end, they're all cheats.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote
> Marion Jones should be a much more respected person NOW than before.
> Before, she was an athlete that did not really contribute to society other
> than for entertainment. Now that she has admitted to being human, making
> mistakes, and taking responsibility for her actions she is setting a fine
> example of how a person should start correcting a wrong.
Glad to hear that you had the same take on the situation that I did.
Watching the FULL news conference, not the edited "soundbites" on later
channels (which obviously mislead O'Reilly), I was impressed by what
appeared to be a sincere contriteness, AND the fact that neither The Rev
Jesse, nor brother Sharpton, were on hand to play the race card.
Hope it stays that way.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ... is a class act!
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/30/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>
Un like some polititions. Oddly, it was told that for the National Track
And Field Hall of Fame in New York to remove Jones images and
accomplishments it would cost $200,000.00.
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:06:54 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>
>She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
In comparison to professional cyclists who get caught red handed and
refuse to give in to the facts, ever... They just keep filing
"defensive" lawsuits.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Dave Balderstone" wrote
> I don't care about sports AT ALL. I follow no professional sport, have
> no favorite teams. I think the whole "pro sport" nonsense is a giant
> scam that separates suckers from their money.
> Nor do I follow so-called "amateur elite sport" which is nothing of the
> kind.
>
> And I'm curious how you think you know what my attitude is toward my
> "elected leaders" or how harsh I am on them in public or private.
Sorry, I had no idea who Ben Jonson" was/is, and assumed, obviously wrongly,
that anyone who would bring him into the conversation would logically know,
and therefore be a "sports fan" of some sort.
Yeah, I know all about "assumptions" ... my apology.
It's not your attitude ... but the fact that this lady ran around in
circles, on foot, in some manner that wasn't kosher, obviously a dastardly
deed, but not in the same league, relatively speaking, with the truly evil
in the world.
That we are losing our perspective on these things as a society is
inarguable, IMO.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
> My beef with you is that you seem
> to think she somehow deserves not only respect but admiration for
> lying, getting caught, and then sobbing on camera.
And my beef with you is that you mistakenly think its "respect: and
"admiration" for "lying, getting caught, and then sobbing on camera".
You're mistaken ... I "respect and admire" anyone who admits they made
mistakes and can "'fess up" to it.
There a difference ... and it ain't all that subtle.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:061020071106543660%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
>
> She only 'fessed up after her lies were discovered.
>
> She's yet another disgrace to track and field. I have no sympathy for
> her, and no admiration of any kind.
>
> She's a cheat and a liar who got caught, plain and simple.
But you have to give her credit in this day and age that she has admitted to
doing wrong and seems to be truly remorseful. Unlike, a certain politician
that gets caught, confesses, recants, decides to resign, then recants again.
"Leon" wrote in message:
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> > ... is a class act!
> Un like some polititions.
You got the point right off the bat, Leon! :) ... _compared to most American
politicians_, who flat out REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS,
whether it be driving off a bridge, killing someone and then running the
other way; pandering sex to a page, or in an airport; or worst of all ...
ignoring the issues bringing this country to its knees.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)