"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> I saw picture on the TV news last night of Victoria...but they didn't
> say anything about the actual low temperatures...I'm assuming (all
> that's probably naive) that a lack of mention means it didn't actually
> get cold enough long enough for the citrus to be severely damaged...
I don't recall hearing anything on the news the past two days about the
recent cold snap affecting the South Texas citrus crop. I doubt there was
much of an impact as the temperature didn't seem to get below the mid
twenties for very long, with little precipitation and no high winds. IIRC,
in the past, with most citrus damaging freezes, the temperature were in the
teens, with a lot of wind and precipitation that caused advective freezing.
Besides, anything that would have justified the MBA's raising citrus prices
at the big corporate retail grocery stores would certainly have been
repeatedly mentioned so that we would feel better about paying more today
for oranges from Chile.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
Swingman wrote:
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
Freaky. Coming back from the MILs I noticed a lot of northbound trucks with
snow boogers on them. I gather it must be snowing down in TN or western NC
somewhere.
Bleah.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
In article <[email protected]>, Duane Bozarth wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> ...
>> Hell, it's still snowing in Houston ...
>
> Hell, the weatherman here last night was so amazed he showed the radar
> showing it snowing in Bronwsville, for heaven's sake! I'm going to have
> to call my kinfolk down there and see if they can tell what it's doing
> to their citrus groves as yet... :(
Gee, we have a real problem now. Hell is freezing over...
Larry Jaques wrote:
> through there. Serveral times he stopped and stood in the sunshine
> a few yards from a blowing snowstorm, as if there were a wall there
> and the storm was contained behind it. Damndest thing he ever saw.
I've seen that too, here in Virginia. Almost like there's some kind of
invisible forcefield keeping the white stuff on the other side of the line.
Very weird.
We get weather like that especially in late spring.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Larry Jaques wrote:
> summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
> watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
> stuff for an 8-year-old.
I've seen that too. It's really cool, like one of those cartoons where the
single rain cloud is following someone around.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Duane Bozarth wrote:
> It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
> <somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
True. I was going to mention that earlier this morning, but didn't quite
work it in. As a truck driver I see this quite often. There's a line on
the road. One side is bright and sunny, and the other is a deluge, like
driving straight into a wall of water. Or the reverse too. It's not
terribly rare at all.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Norman D. Crow wrote:
> Just to add some fuel to the fire:
> I was *told* when touring the Ocean Spray facility in Plymouth, MA that
> the reason they flood the cranberry bogs in winter is to protect the
> plants. Apparently they can withstand being in frigid water or encased in
> ice, but frost will damage them.
I've seen that in my pond too. Put the plants under water, no problem. Let
them get covered with frozen spray, no problem, but a hard frost will lay
waste to everything above the water line. Weird.
>
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Swingman wrote:
>
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
Glad to have sent it on... :)
Had from 2 to 4" up here and it was -2 F last night...all the way to 20
already today though! Will be near 60 Saturday again...ah, consistency
on the High Plains... :)
Swingman wrote:
...
> Hell, it's still snowing in Houston ...
Hell, the weatherman here last night was so amazed he showed the radar
showing it snowing in Bronwsville, for heaven's sake! I'm going to have
to call my kinfolk down there and see if they can tell what it's doing
to their citrus groves as yet... :(
Swingman wrote:
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
> Merry Christmas ...
At noon yesterday (Friday 12/24) I was looking at nothing but grass on the
lawn. By 8 PM there was 2' of snow.
Merry Christmas to all.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Tom wrote:
....
> Brownsville recorded the first snowfall accumulation since 1895. The
> whole coastal area got snow.
I saw picture on the TV news last night of Victoria...but they didn't
say anything about the actual low temperatures...I'm assuming (all
that's probably naive) that a lack of mention means it didn't actually
get cold enough long enough for the citrus to be severely damaged...
Swingman wrote:
>
...
> Besides, anything that would have justified the MBA's raising citrus prices
> at the big corporate retail grocery stores would certainly have been
> repeatedly mentioned so that we would feel better about paying more today
> for oranges from Chile.
:( Yeah, that's a bummer for sure...but surely do like the Valley Ruby
Red grapefruit--there's none other that compares...
Grandparents (and now aunt/uncles/cousins) have place in the vicinity of
Pharr --
Usually moisture helps rather than hurts -- dry cold is typically the
more damaging. Often they'll mist (particularly at bloom time) to keep
the water vapor in the air so it's more difficult for the air
temperature to drop...at least that's what I was always told...I'm a
wheat farmer and only know what I've picked up second hand. We're so
far away we don't get down to where Mom's family is often...last I was
in the area was in '98.
Anyway, thanks for the info...
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:46:33 -0500, Nova <[email protected]>
> calmly ranted:
> >
> >At noon yesterday (Friday 12/24) I was looking at nothing but grass on the
> >lawn. By 8 PM there was 2' of snow.
>
> TWO FEET? Oy vay, Yack. What a white Christmas! Mario's always
> complaining about Buffalo getting a bad rap, but I continue to hear
> amazing things like that (and the 5' one week a couple years ago,
> etc.) Methinks -he- is in denial. ;)
Lake effect snows are funny. The snow may have missed Mario's area. I know that about 5 miles to the
south of me they only got 2"-3". The official measurement at the Buffalo airport, about 10 miles east
of the lake was 11".
> We were supposed to get snow but it has been 37° rain so far today.
> Siskiyou Pass is blanketed in white, though.
> <http://www.tripcheck.com/roadcams/customcamdetail.asp?Name=Larry%27s%20Map&Num=2&cam1=18&cam2=74>
Looks familiar although during the worse of Friday evenings storm I has to stop snow blowing as I
couldn't see the front of the snow blower. Fortunately it was the light fluffy stuff and I was able
to clear most of it out in about an hour after the snow stopped.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:38:52 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:21:19 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> And that's precisely why I'll always prefer to live on the leeward side of
>> any mountains in the area. It's more sunny and a lot drier.
>
>Depends on how close to the mountains you are on the leeward side. Get a
>little too far away, and you are in the convergence zone. Of course, this
>only applies to a lump of mountains like the Olympics, not a wall like the
>Rockies - unless you are behind a *BIG* lump :-)
This lovely portion of the Rogue River Valley gets 32 inches annually.
We're leeward of the Coastal Range, nestled between them and the
Cascade Range.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
http://www.diversify.com Your Wild & Woody Website Wonk
Swingman wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
>
> > Usually moisture helps rather than hurts -- dry cold is typically the
> > more damaging. Often they'll mist (particularly at bloom time) to keep
> > the water vapor in the air so it's more difficult for the air
> > temperature to drop...at least that's what I was always told
>
> Not always. I specifically said advective freezing, where "moisture" plays a
> part, combined with wind. The resultant evaporative cooling below ambient
> temperature causes the damage to the grove. With this cold front there was a
> lot of cloud cover and it was apparently not cold enough, for long enough,
> to cause radiational freeze damage.
OK, I'm not arguing, as I said, that's just what I was always told by
kinfolk down there...they were probably keeping it simple for the wheat
guy... :)
Dry cold is about the only kind we know up here and it's calm if it's
under 25 mph...
But how do you get cooling <below> ambient this way?
Anyway, I was assuming the air temps weren't cold enough long enough for
serious damage.
Swingman wrote:
>
> "George" wrote in message
>
> > Simple fact - can't get colder than the dewpoint. By misting, they raise,
> > or at least hold the dewpoint. If they get significant evaporative
> cooling,
> > they're not misting well enough. With a high RH, evaporation is nil.
>
> Well George, you could trot your ass down to the Rio Grande Valley and
> become St George overnight by teaching them with that superior
> knowledge/attitude.
>
> An even "simple(r) fact" - Your ignorance of advective freezing is showing.
> Have you ever tried to "mist" in a high wind?
...
I was going to just drop off here, but I think there's a semantics
problem...to check my memory I looked up advection -- "The horizontal
transfer of air mass properties by the velocity field of the
atmosphere". That's what I recalled. The effect of wind is to enhance
heat transfer, yes, but it doesn't cause the cooled object temperature
to drop below the air temperature...that's against thermo rules.
Sure, one can't keep all water in the air if it's blowing hard, but the
same principle holds...even an ice layer over the tree can be an
insulating blanket that helps if the air temperature isn't too cold too
long and it's not at the most critical juncture...
Anyway, not to get too carried away...
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:40:04 -0500, Silvan
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
> >Larry Jaques wrote:
> >
> >> through there. Serveral times he stopped and stood in the sunshine
> >> a few yards from a blowing snowstorm, as if there were a wall there
> >> and the storm was contained behind it. Damndest thing he ever saw.
> >
> >I've seen that too, here in Virginia. Almost like there's some kind of
> >invisible forcefield keeping the white stuff on the other side of the line.
> >Very weird.
> >
> >We get weather like that especially in late spring.
>
> Ditto on Little Rock AFB in the 60s. I'd be on one side of
> the street in the sunshine while it rained like hell (80F
> summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
> watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
> stuff for an 8-year-old.
My brother and I used to complain that Dad would <always> get rained out
and we would both have to stay out in the field all day...did seem like
that, often, although I'm sure there were instances the other way as
well we selectively forgot! :)
It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
<somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
Doug Winterburn wrote:
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> > It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
> > <somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
>
> except in Seattle where it rains everywhere, and heavier in the
> convergence zone...
It still stops <somewhere>... :)
Spent 10 days w/ daughter in Olympia couple of weeks ago now...saw the
sun once while there for about 30 minutes... :(
Mark & Juanita wrote:
...
> While the precipitation line must be somewhere, it is usually not as
> abrupt, more of a gradual tapering off from rain to drizzle to mist. The
> sharp demarcation of rain/dry is what is interesting.
I know, I spent 30 years in VA/TN where it does rain more generally like
that...I suppose, though, that for those of us who are in the western
states where virtually all of our rainfall is thunderstorm-type and
where we can see for long distances, the phenomenon is so common as to
be expected rather than the unexpected...
I recall one time as a kid sitting in the dining room at noon while it
rained out the west windows and was dry on the east side--took several
minutes for it to move the other fifteen feet or so required to get to
the other side of the house, too. Usually things aren't that
slow-moving around here, but that particular storm was.
OK, I went and did a google for "freeze protection orchard grove" and
found a nice paper (http://www.smallfruits.org/Weather/frost_freeze.htm)
by The Southern Region Small Fruit Consortium that describes technology
and principles very well...
They also define the "advective freezing" and I see it is simply the
movement of sub-freezing temperatures into the area en masse...under
those circumstances there isn't much one can do. That's a nomenclature
not known to me previously and, as I thought, a semantics issue....we
weren't discussing the same thing.
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
> Doesn't the Olympic Rainforest get something like 240 inches annually?
> Amazing!
Don't know the precisely although the Time/Life series of US
geographical areas says about 150" (the bookshelf happens to be right
over there... :) ). Let's see if the Smoky Mountains is given...I'm
thinking it's in the 85-inch neighborhood if I recall correctly...no,
that's not given there although some of the top elevations also qualify
as temperate rain forest (although not in spades like Olympic).
Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
...
> Having grown up on the plains of Colorado, and now living in Tucson
> (where it does rain occasionally), as well as spending 17 years in Dallas,
> the majority of rain changes I recall went from intermittent drops to
> sprinkle to downpour, then back again. Tucson certainly seems to have more
> of the abrupt demarcations than either Dallas or the Denver area. In
> Colorado, I do know that the rain was often localized, i.e. while in town
> we would experience heavy, but once we turned onto the dirt road home
> (about 10 miles from town), we'd be kicking up dust. Even in those cases
> though, the transition was more gradual than the rain/no rain demarcations
> being discussed.
...
Just out of curiousity, which town on the eastern CO plains? We're
about 30 mi from CO line in SW KS...not sure whether you were meaning
you were 10 mi outside Denver or elsewhere.
Anyway, your description is pretty much true most of the time, but on
the high plains where dewpoints are typically low enough that general
rains are the rare exception in the warm months, it's the uplift that
generates the rainfall. When it then falls, the demarcation line is
quite often very abrupt and the "sprinkles" region may be only on the
order of feet rather than significant fractions of a mile.
Swingman wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
>
> > Just out of curiousity, which town on the eastern CO plains? We're
> > about 30 mi from CO line in SW KS.
>
> Ahh ... Lamar, CO. You could smell it long before you got there.
Ahh...Ok, through there just a few weeks ago on way back home...Lamar,
Granada, Holly, Coolidge, Syracuse, Johnson City, ...
Swingman wrote:
>
...
> Had an Oil and Gas leasing crew in Lamar for the better part of two years
> back in the early 80's, so I made one or two trips a month from Houston.
> Mostly flew to Amarillo and drove ...
> Mighty fine folks in that part of the country, and made some good friends
> ...reminded me of around Web and Dimmit county, in South West Texas, with
> the big ranches and open spaces.
>
> We used to go across the state line to a small bush track in KS for quarter
> horse races on Saturdays. Lots of funny stories/memories from that period in
> SE Colorado.
Well, as you're undoubtedly well aware, the exploration around here is
getting to be pretty slim, although the higher gas prices are beginning
to show some effect...most of what is going on now is opening old holes
that weren't good enough back in the 50's - 60's, mostly for lack of
sufficient oil vis a vis gas...a few new wells are being drilled now.
All the majors have left the area entirely. The Hugoton field is being
reworked by a bunch of independents w/ doing things like lowering header
pressures even to the point of pulling vacuum...
The track at Syracuse is still there although I noticed that it looked
like the one outside Holly hadn't operated for a number of years...
We're about 180 mi almost straight N of Amarillo...we're just to the
westward edge of the dryland farming region although there's a lot of
circle irrigation, too. As you say, good folk although sparsely settled
as one goes further west into the drier country...
If you ever do the trip from Amarillo again, highly recommend detour to
the Black Mesa area on the OK/NM/CO border west of Boise City...neat
mesa country not too far out of the way and you can head on up 287 w/
just a little jog from Campo...
Swingman wrote:
>
...
> We were chasing the Morrow Sand from whence the Sorrento Field produces. I
> still think there is another Sorrento in SE CO, but we drilled three wells
> of a thirty well program before the bottom fell out of the business in the
> middle 80's.
>
> If pigs had wings and we could of just hung on a little longer and hit, I'd
> likely be typing this from a villa in Switzerland. ;>)
Like many others... :) My brother was in Midland (he's a vet and went
down there during the boom for a fella' who was rolling in dough and
started a thoroughbred stable. Boom went bust and so did the stud
farm... :(
> > The track at Syracuse is still there although I noticed that it looked
> > like the one outside Holly hadn't operated for a number of years...
>
> You woke a sleeping brain cell ... it was indeed Holly where we used to go.
> I was raised around running quarter horses and thoroughbreds (my 83 year old
> Dad still has a racehorse farm out of Navasota, Tx,
> http://www.hsound.com/WSS/ ), so, having an eye for horseflesh, I used to
> like scouring the bush tracks wherever I was.
My grandad was a big fan of the flat track races, too. Used to go down
to Raton, NM, which was the closest to us back then. It's a blast,
totally unlike closed course, of course...
> > If you ever do the trip from Amarillo again, highly recommend detour to
> > the Black Mesa area on the OK/NM/CO border west of Boise City...neat
> > mesa country not too far out of the way and you can head on up 287 w/
> > just a little jog from Campo...
>
> Did that once ... would love to do it again. Damn, I love that part of the
> country. You feel like you have some room to spread your wings.
Great, glad to hear you either discovered it on your own or somebody let
the secret out...
Part is now a "park" but it's still remote enough to not be run over.
As a high school kid I used to trailer the horse over there and ride
over weekends if Dad would let me have at least one Saturday
occasionally off the tractor during warm weather. Felt like I was in
heaven!
The west end of that formation is the Johnson Mesa east of Raton. It's
even more remote and well worth a trip along there if you're ever in
Raton area. We came back that way from Santa Fe last summer after the
unusual stretch of wet weather we had starting in June. It was waist
high grass and green all the way from there home in
mid-August...beautiful, and nearly unheard of for that time of year!
(BTW, mountain snows this year are 110-150% normal so far, so just
<maybe> we're beginning to finally break this 5-year drought cycle...)
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> >...(regarding CO upbringing...where)...
>
> Near a little town called Hudson -- it's about 30 miles north of Denver,
> 30 miles East of Boulder and 30 miles southeast of Greeley. My dad grew up
> near Flagler, that's *way* eastern Colorado.
OK, yeah, it's starting to get out there, but it's still quite a way to
Burlington...
Farther north than we are, so don't get that far north when we go to
Denver usually...we cut off at Limon and head on down to Kit Carson...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:20:52 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
>tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
Had to run down to Sargent to drain the pipes and hit strong flurries
on the way back. Had sleet/snow mix from the time we left the bay but
by the time we hit Hwy. 6 it was really coming down. By the time we
hit BW 8 the overpasses had quite an accumulation. Back around 1960 it
had quit. Kids live near Dickinson and they are getting quite an
accumulation. How 'bout that - a white Christmas in Houston???
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:47:21 -0600, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>...
>> Hell, it's still snowing in Houston ...
>
>Hell, the weatherman here last night was so amazed he showed the radar
>showing it snowing in Bronwsville, for heaven's sake! I'm going to have
>to call my kinfolk down there and see if they can tell what it's doing
>to their citrus groves as yet... :(
Brownsville recorded the first snowfall accumulation since 1895. The
whole coastal area got snow.
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 03:26:07 GMT, Stephen Pinn <[email protected]>
wrote:
>We are in North West Houston (1960-249 area) and barely a flake fell,
>dang!
We're right down the street (Jones - 1960) and got very little. We had
to make a quick run to Sargent to drain the pipes at our place down
there and hit heavy flurries on the way back - wife was thrilled.
Actually had pretty good snowfall until we passed 290. We had snow on
the roof and cars in the drive but snow was over by the time we got
home.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
> >
> > "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> >
> > > Usually moisture helps rather than hurts -- dry cold is typically the
> > > more damaging. Often they'll mist (particularly at bloom time) to keep
> > > the water vapor in the air so it's more difficult for the air
> > > temperature to drop...at least that's what I was always told
> >
> > Not always. I specifically said advective freezing, where "moisture"
plays a
> > part, combined with wind. The resultant evaporative cooling below
ambient
> > temperature causes the damage to the grove. With this cold front there
was a
> > lot of cloud cover and it was apparently not cold enough, for long
enough,
> > to cause radiational freeze damage.
>
> OK, I'm not arguing, as I said, that's just what I was always told by
> kinfolk down there...they were probably keeping it simple for the wheat
> guy... :)
>
> But how do you get cooling <below> ambient this way?
>
Simple fact - can't get colder than the dewpoint. By misting, they raise,
or at least hold the dewpoint. If they get significant evaporative cooling,
they're not misting well enough. With a high RH, evaporation is nil.
Testy , aren't we? Sounds like you jumped on your ass to try and save the
world from something evil on the horizon.
I said nothing about the wind, that's your addition. Tilt away in
ignorance, or look up what I told you. If the mist blows away, they're
not/can't be misting well enough to hold the dewpoint. Simple enough even
for you?
You quoted what I wrote, but obviously read what you wanted to see.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "George" wrote in message
>
> > Simple fact - can't get colder than the dewpoint. By misting, they
raise,
> > or at least hold the dewpoint. If they get significant evaporative
> cooling,
> > they're not misting well enough. With a high RH, evaporation is nil.
>
> Well George, you could trot your ass down to the Rio Grande Valley and
> become St George overnight by teaching them with that superior
> knowledge/attitude.
>
> An even "simple(r) fact" - Your ignorance of advective freezing is
showing.
> Have you ever tried to "mist" in a high wind?
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 11/06/04
>
>
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sure, one can't keep all water in the air if it's blowing hard, but the
> same principle holds...even an ice layer over the tree can be an
> insulating blanket that helps if the air temperature isn't too cold too
> long and it's not at the most critical juncture...
>
> Anyway, not to get too carried away...
Indeed, the technique of spraying to ice the surface is used to prevent the
more dangerous formation of ice crystals in the cells of the blossoms or
fruit, where lower temperatures are required due to the depressed freezing
point caused by solutes.
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:35:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > Doesn't the Olympic Rainforest get something like 240 inches annually?
> > Amazing!
>
> The Olympic mountains are what creates the convergence zone. The Pacific
> weather moves in and hits the Olympics giving the amazing rainfall there.
> The mountains also force weather north and south heading east, and this
> weather "converges", usually somewhere from north Seattle to Everett to
> give that "enhanced" rainfall.
>
Yep, the reason for the abundant rainfall is the elevation and cooling of
moisture-laden air - can't be colder than the dewpoint without raining - by
the mountains. Spills into the gaps with enhancement.
Then there's the rain shadow on the other side extending through the
intermountain region.
We get 240 inches per year too, but it's snow. The areas of squalls south
of the lake (Superior) are easily predicted by the direction and velocity of
the wind, and influenced by the lay of the land.
"Norman D. Crow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Used to see that years ago when traveling to AZ. Going through TX & NM you
> could see for miles and watch those thunderstorms go across the highway
> miles ahead of you. By the time you got there, the road was wet for a mile
> or two, then back to dry road again. Once we saw where some unfortunate
slid
> off the road into a 6' deep ditch, then kept driving down the ditch for
> about 3mi trying to find a way out until they got stopped at a crossing.
> Only way they were going to get out was a tow.
>
More common where the rain is a result of sudden downdraft from storms,
versus frontal activity, which spreads for miles. I imagine everyone has
experienced the sudden cooling prior to a thunderstorm, and many of those
who fly have felt low altitude microbursts. Lot of airports are putting in
Doppler now to warn aircraft close to the ground of their potential for
becoming part of it.
We are in North West Houston (1960-249 area) and barely a flake fell,
dang!
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 03:13:03 GMT, [email protected] (Tom)
wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:47:21 -0600, Duane Bozarth
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Swingman wrote:
>>...
>>> Hell, it's still snowing in Houston ...
>>
>>Hell, the weatherman here last night was so amazed he showed the radar
>>showing it snowing in Bronwsville, for heaven's sake! I'm going to have
>>to call my kinfolk down there and see if they can tell what it's doing
>>to their citrus groves as yet... :(
>Brownsville recorded the first snowfall accumulation since 1895. The
>whole coastal area got snow.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
Got a call from our son's Godparents in Corpus.
It's snowing waaaaaaaaaaaaay down south.
Funny - here I am in Snow Country and it ain't.
I lived there during the Great Christmas Freeze in 1983. Or 1984. One of
those years. There was lots of damage from broken copper pipes and
exploding electric water heaters.
There's nothing uglier than a palm tree that's died from freeze. Well,
excpet maybe LOT'S of dead palm trees.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
>> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
>
>
> Swingman are you doing OK??????
>
> This is the second post I have tried to chase you down on.
>
> I repeat!!!!!!!
>
>>
>> Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be under
>> heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of firm
>> belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you
>> monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came
>> whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2
>> flakes
>> of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet
>> radar
>> is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what
>> kind
>> of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......
>>
>> ..........
>>
>>
>>
>> ;~)
>>
>> ROTFLMAO...........
>>
>>
>
>
>
Tom wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:47:21 -0600, Duane Bozarth
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Swingman wrote:
>>...
>>
>>>Hell, it's still snowing in Houston ...
>>
>>Hell, the weatherman here last night was so amazed he showed the radar
>>showing it snowing in Bronwsville, for heaven's sake! I'm going to have
>>to call my kinfolk down there and see if they can tell what it's doing
>>to their citrus groves as yet... :(
>
> Brownsville recorded the first snowfall accumulation since 1895. The
> whole coastal area got snow.
Ayup. I was warned that if I voted for Kerry, there would be war,
quagmire, deficits, and snow in Brownsville. Well I did anyway and
guess what? ;-)
mahalo,
jo4hn
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:59:16 -0500, Nova <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:46:33 -0500, Nova <[email protected]>
>> calmly ranted:
>> >
>> >At noon yesterday (Friday 12/24) I was looking at nothing but grass on the
>> >lawn. By 8 PM there was 2' of snow.
>>
>> TWO FEET? Oy vay, Yack. What a white Christmas! Mario's always
>> complaining about Buffalo getting a bad rap, but I continue to hear
>> amazing things like that (and the 5' one week a couple years ago,
>> etc.) Methinks -he- is in denial. ;)
>
>Lake effect snows are funny. The snow may have missed Mario's area. I know that about 5 miles to the
>south of me they only got 2"-3". The official measurement at the Buffalo airport, about 10 miles east
>of the lake was 11".
Yeah, my buddy Terry used to drive from NYC to Canuckistan and went
through there. Serveral times he stopped and stood in the sunshine
a few yards from a blowing snowstorm, as if there were a wall there
and the storm was contained behind it. Damndest thing he ever saw.
-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
Swingman are you doing OK??????
This is the second post I have tried to chase you down on.
I repeat!!!!!!!
>
> Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be under
> heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of firm
> belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you
> monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came
> whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2 flakes
> of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet radar
> is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what kind
> of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......
>
> ..........
>
>
>
> ;~)
>
> ROTFLMAO...........
>
>
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> Well, as you're undoubtedly well aware, the exploration around here is
> getting to be pretty slim, although the higher gas prices are beginning
> to show some effect...most of what is going on now is opening old holes
> that weren't good enough back in the 50's - 60's, mostly for lack of
> sufficient oil vis a vis gas...a few new wells are being drilled now.
> All the majors have left the area entirely. The Hugoton field is being
> reworked by a bunch of independents w/ doing things like lowering header
> pressures even to the point of pulling vacuum...
We were chasing the Morrow Sand from whence the Sorrento Field produces. I
still think there is another Sorrento in SE CO, but we drilled three wells
of a thirty well program before the bottom fell out of the business in the
middle 80's.
If pigs had wings and we could of just hung on a little longer and hit, I'd
likely be typing this from a villa in Switzerland. ;>)
> The track at Syracuse is still there although I noticed that it looked
> like the one outside Holly hadn't operated for a number of years...
You woke a sleeping brain cell ... it was indeed Holly where we used to go.
I was raised around running quarter horses and thoroughbreds (my 83 year old
Dad still has a racehorse farm out of Navasota, Tx,
http://www.hsound.com/WSS/ ), so, having an eye for horseflesh, I used to
like scouring the bush tracks wherever I was.
> If you ever do the trip from Amarillo again, highly recommend detour to
> the Black Mesa area on the OK/NM/CO border west of Boise City...neat
> mesa country not too far out of the way and you can head on up 287 w/
> just a little jog from Campo...
Did that once ... would love to do it again. Damn, I love that part of the
country. You feel like you have some room to spread your wings.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"George" wrote in message
> Simple fact - can't get colder than the dewpoint. By misting, they raise,
> or at least hold the dewpoint. If they get significant evaporative
cooling,
> they're not misting well enough. With a high RH, evaporation is nil.
Well George, you could trot your ass down to the Rio Grande Valley and
become St George overnight by teaching them with that superior
knowledge/attitude.
An even "simple(r) fact" - Your ignorance of advective freezing is showing.
Have you ever tried to "mist" in a high wind?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> Usually moisture helps rather than hurts -- dry cold is typically the
> more damaging. Often they'll mist (particularly at bloom time) to keep
> the water vapor in the air so it's more difficult for the air
> temperature to drop...at least that's what I was always told
Not always. I specifically said advective freezing, where "moisture" plays a
part, combined with wind. The resultant evaporative cooling below ambient
temperature causes the damage to the grove. With this cold front there was a
lot of cloud cover and it was apparently not cold enough, for long enough,
to cause radiational freeze damage.
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" wrote in message
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> > tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
>
>
> Swingman are you doing OK??????
>
> This is the second post I have tried to chase you down on.
>
> I repeat!!!!!!!
>
> >
> > Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be
under
> > heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of
firm
> > belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you
> > monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came
> > whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2
flakes
> > of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet
radar
> > is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what
kind
> > of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......
LOL Hmmm ... wonder if Home Depot has any snow shovels?
Actually, I didn't see your post until after my post. All the neighborhood
kids are out trying to catch snowflakes on their tongues. Might be another
16 years before they get the chance again.
Amazing what a few snow flurries on the Gulf Coast will do to everyone's
attitude ... even the corner neighbors are being nice this morning.
Merry Christmas, Leon!
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
"Stephen Pinn" wrote in message
> Been living in Houston for 14+ years now, I will finally have a chance
> to use that tobaggon I brought from Toronto, oh wait you need hills
> ... darn!
Want a hill in Houston? ... used to be on Jackson just off Allen Parkway
going NW. Haven't been there in years, but, depending upon which way you
were headed, the road plunged down the side of a real "hill" back in the old
days ... of course the developers have probably leveled it off by now.
It's either that, Miller Outdoor Theater in Herman Park, or the ship channel
bridge. ;>)
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> >
> > The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> > tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
> >
> Glad to have sent it on... :)
Well, at the moment I appreciate it more than you realize. ;>)
Gumbo on Christmas is a family tradition and, since it's always better the
next day, with the expected 24F tonight I'll be able 'refrigerate' it out on
the back porch tonight without having to pack the big pot in ice overnight.
> Had from 2 to 4" up here and it was -2 F last night...all the way to 20
> already today though! Will be near 60 Saturday again...ah, consistency
> on the High Plains... :)
We're looking for 70 by Tuesday ... sounds downright warm at the moment.
Merry Christmas ...
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
"Nova" writes:
> Lake effect snows are funny.
Tell me about it.
The official reporting point for Cleveland is Hopkins Airport on the west
side of the city.
Average yearly snow fall is less than 6 ft.
20 miles east in Chardon, Oh, heart of the snow belt, 10+ ft is the normal.
> The official measurement at the Buffalo airport, about 10 miles east
> of the lake was 11".
My local salesman for the Western New York area lived in Buffalo and worked
out of his house.
At least once or twice a year he would be up on his roof shoveling off snow
when I would call.
Ah the memories.
Today, I wait for a winter storm to come in off the Pacific and dump a bunch
of rain on SoCal.
Really screws up my fiberglass laying work.
Lew
> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
IMHO, that sucks.
Here in SoCal, if you want snow, two (2) options.
1) Go to the mountains less than 50 miles away.
2) Get a truck and haul in 30-40 tons of the stuff.
The high today in Ohio where my mother lives reached a balmy 10F.
Here in SoCal, at the old boat yard, the sun was shining and the high temps
were about 68F-70F, even if it was in the mid 40's at daybreak.
Not to shabby for the winter season, can even lay fiber glass in this
weather.
Happy Holidays to every one who celebrates the season.
To those who don't, enjoy the time your way.
Lew
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> atmosphere". That's what I recalled. The effect of wind is to enhance
> heat transfer, yes, but it doesn't cause the cooled object temperature
> to drop below the air temperature...that's against thermo rules.
Rules? ... tell that to somone who had an ill-timed, though relatively
small, investment in a citrus grove operation back in the oil boom, flush,
early 80's and wished like hell that mother nature would have indeed "played
by the rules". :)
So as to know how those $$'s went away so fast way, I brushed up on the
subject, but it has been a while.
In any event, evaporative cooling _can_ certainly "reduce the temperature of
plant tissue to below the air temperature".
Suspecting that Texas A&M would have a current interest, and something to
say, on the subject of protecting Texas' citrus groves from freezing, and so
you don't take my word for it, here you go:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/citrus/cold/L2287.htm
(wish I'd had access to www back then!)
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
"George" wrote in message
> Testy , aren't we? Sounds like you jumped on your ass to try and save
the
> world from something evil on the horizon.
>
> I said nothing about the wind, that's your addition.
I absolutely agree, George .. since it _is_ an essential component of what
was under discussion, your "saying nothing about the wind" pointed
_directly_ to your ignorance of the subject
> Tilt away in
> ignorance, or look up what I told you. If the mist blows away, they're
> not/can't be misting well enough to hold the dewpoint. Simple enough even
> for you?
>
> You quoted what I wrote, but obviously read what you wanted to see
That's because when you take away your superior-than-thou attitude, there
was nothing left but ignorant conjecture.
"Misting" a citrus grove is a very complicated business if it is to be
sucessful. What you "wrote" is not even in the ballpark.
Kiss my ass again, George.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
>> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
>
>
> Swingman are you doing OK??????
>
> This is the second post I have tried to chase you down on.
>
> I repeat!!!!!!!
>
>>
>> Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be under
>> heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of firm
>> belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you
>> monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came
>> whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2
>> flakes
>> of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet
>> radar
>> is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what
>> kind
>> of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......
>>
>> ..........
>>
>>
>>
>> ;~)
>>
>> ROTFLMAO...........
>>
>>
>
Down here in balmy Galveston County, there were 3 small specs of sleet so
far. I guess we'll go to the beach for some sunbathing. :-)
"Silvan" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
>
> > The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
> > tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
> Freaky. Coming back from the MILs I noticed a lot of northbound trucks
with
> snow boogers on them. I gather it must be snowing down in TN or western
NC
> somewhere.
Hell, it's still snowing in Houston at 9PM. The neighborhood kids made a
snowman ...well, it's a small snowman, and they scrapped the snow off a
dozen car trunks and hoods to do it, but it's cold and white and still
sitting in the front yard.
Merry Christmas, Michael.
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
I have a vivid memory re: "hills in Houston" from when I lived there
(1982-1987).
It had rained hard for a long time and the low areas had flooded (there's a
shock). On the evening news, they were interviewing the flood victims down
on the southeast side. One woman with that unmistakable east-texas drawl
proclaimed: "This is the eighth time we've been flooded out. I feel like we
belong to the flood-of-the-month club. What we NEED is a hill."
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Stephen Pinn wrote:
>>
>> Been living in Houston for 14+ years now, I will finally have a chance
>> to use that tobaggon I brought from Toronto, oh wait you need hills
> ...
>
> Nah, just a horse! :)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:40:04 -0500, Silvan
>> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>>
>> >Larry Jaques wrote:
>> >
>> >> through there. Serveral times he stopped and stood in the sunshine
>> >> a few yards from a blowing snowstorm, as if there were a wall there
>> >> and the storm was contained behind it. Damndest thing he ever saw.
>> >
>> >I've seen that too, here in Virginia. Almost like there's some kind of
>> >invisible forcefield keeping the white stuff on the other side of the line.
>> >Very weird.
>> >
>> >We get weather like that especially in late spring.
>>
>> Ditto on Little Rock AFB in the 60s. I'd be on one side of
>> the street in the sunshine while it rained like hell (80F
>> summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
>> watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
>> stuff for an 8-year-old.
>
>My brother and I used to complain that Dad would <always> get rained out
>and we would both have to stay out in the field all day...did seem like
>that, often, although I'm sure there were instances the other way as
>well we selectively forgot! :)
>
>It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
><somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
While the precipitation line must be somewhere, it is usually not as
abrupt, more of a gradual tapering off from rain to drizzle to mist. The
sharp demarcation of rain/dry is what is interesting.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Nova" writes:
[snip]
> Ah the memories.
>
> Today, I wait for a winter storm to come in off the Pacific and dump a bunch
> of rain on SoCal.
>
> Really screws up my fiberglass laying work.
>
>
> Lew
>
At least one forecaster says we should get a couple feet of snow up
here. Gonna meet a daughter at a restaurant in Orange County for lunch
tomorrow. The snow is supposed to hold off till evening.
mahalo,
jo4hn
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:46:33 -0500, Nova <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Swingman wrote:
>
>> The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
>> tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>>
>> Merry Christmas ...
>
>At noon yesterday (Friday 12/24) I was looking at nothing but grass on the
>lawn. By 8 PM there was 2' of snow.
TWO FEET? Oy vay, Yack. What a white Christmas! Mario's always
complaining about Buffalo getting a bad rap, but I continue to hear
amazing things like that (and the 5' one week a couple years ago,
etc.) Methinks -he- is in denial. ;)
We were supposed to get snow but it has been 37° rain so far today.
Siskiyou Pass is blanketed in white, though.
<http://www.tripcheck.com/roadcams/customcamdetail.asp?Name=Larry%27s%20Map&Num=2&cam1=18&cam2=74>
>Merry Christmas to all.
Nappy Hoo Year to you, too.
P.S: Got JPGs?
-------------------------------------------------------------
* * Humorous T-shirts Online
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* * http://www.diversify.com
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"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
> > watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
> > stuff for an 8-year-old.
>
> I've seen that too. It's really cool, like one of those cartoons where
the
> single rain cloud is following someone around.
>
Used to see that years ago when traveling to AZ. Going through TX & NM you
could see for miles and watch those thunderstorms go across the highway
miles ahead of you. By the time you got there, the road was wet for a mile
or two, then back to dry road again. Once we saw where some unfortunate slid
off the road into a 6' deep ditch, then kept driving down the ditch for
about 3mi trying to find a way out until they got stopped at a crossing.
Only way they were going to get out was a tow.
--
Nahmie
Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sure, one can't keep all water in the air if it's blowing hard, but the
> same principle holds...even an ice layer over the tree can be an
> insulating blanket that helps if the air temperature isn't too cold too
> long and it's not at the most critical juncture...
Just to add some fuel to the fire:
I was *told* when touring the Ocean Spray facility in Plymouth, MA that the
reason they flood the cranberry bogs in winter is to protect the plants.
Apparently they can withstand being in frigid water or encased in ice, but
frost will damage them.
--
Nahmie
Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.
"Silvan" wrote in message
>
> > summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
> > watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
> > stuff for an 8-year-old.
>
> I've seen that too. It's really cool, like one of those cartoons where
the
> single rain cloud is following someone around.
When we were kids they had a saying when you saw the phenomenon of rain on
one side of the street, and sunshine on the other:
"The devil is chasing his wife around a stump with a broomstick".
Hadn't thought of that in years ... wonder where it came from?
--
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Last update: 11/06/04
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:06:19 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
>> It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
>> <somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
>
>True. I was going to mention that earlier this morning, but didn't quite
>work it in. As a truck driver I see this quite often. There's a line on
>the road. One side is bright and sunny, and the other is a deluge, like
>driving straight into a wall of water. Or the reverse too. It's not
>terribly rare at all.
That happened to me in New Mexico a few years back. It was hot and
dry (100°+) when all of a sudden I drove under a thunderhead and
had to hit the wipers on FULL SPEED for about 3 blocks, then all
was dry as a bone for the next 100 miles. I had just bypassed Deming
and was heading up the S-26 shortcut to I-25 north when it hit,
right between Florida and Nutt. A raven was flying down the street
toward me about 10' above the white line and just after it passed me,
the wall of water hit me. I could see the cloud shadow on the ground
but couldn't see the rain until I was in it. Weird things like that
are hard to forget. I never figured out what it was trying to tell me
but I slowed down a whole lot that day. <insert TwiZo music here>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
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"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> > If pigs had wings and we could of just hung on a little longer and hit,
I'd
> > likely be typing this from a villa in Switzerland. ;>)
>
> Like many others... :) My brother was in Midland (he's a vet and went
> down there during the boom for a fella' who was rolling in dough and
> started a thoroughbred stable. Boom went bust and so did the stud
> farm... :(
Boy howdy, but it was fun while it lasted ... it was nothing for my AE
expense bill to run $5k-10k a month in those days.
> Great, glad to hear you either discovered it on your own or somebody let
> the secret out...
Over the two year period I had that crew there we managed to find a lot of
places of interest. ... not a lot do in Lamar, Co. ;)
> Part is now a "park" but it's still remote enough to not be run over.
> As a high school kid I used to trailer the horse over there and ride
> over weekends if Dad would let me have at least one Saturday
> occasionally off the tractor during warm weather. Felt like I was in
> heaven!
Ahh now ... you're making my feet want to get the hell outta Dodge. I've got
to get back in the harness!
Enjoyed the reminiscing, Duane.
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
Been living in Houston for 14+ years now, I will finally have a chance
to use that tobaggon I brought from Toronto, oh wait you need hills
... darn!
Merry Christmas all
Steve
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:20:52 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The Christmas gumbo is on, the house smells good with the cooking for
>tomorrow, and the snow is actually sticking to the cars in the driveway.
>
>Merry Christmas ...
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:29:24 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>...
>
>> While the precipitation line must be somewhere, it is usually not as
>> abrupt, more of a gradual tapering off from rain to drizzle to mist. The
>> sharp demarcation of rain/dry is what is interesting.
>
>I know, I spent 30 years in VA/TN where it does rain more generally like
>that...I suppose, though, that for those of us who are in the western
>states where virtually all of our rainfall is thunderstorm-type and
>where we can see for long distances, the phenomenon is so common as to
>be expected rather than the unexpected...
>
>I recall one time as a kid sitting in the dining room at noon while it
>rained out the west windows and was dry on the east side--took several
>minutes for it to move the other fifteen feet or so required to get to
>the other side of the house, too. Usually things aren't that
>slow-moving around here, but that particular storm was.
Having grown up on the plains of Colorado, and now living in Tucson
(where it does rain occasionally), as well as spending 17 years in Dallas,
the majority of rain changes I recall went from intermittent drops to
sprinkle to downpour, then back again. Tucson certainly seems to have more
of the abrupt demarcations than either Dallas or the Denver area. In
Colorado, I do know that the rain was often localized, i.e. while in town
we would experience heavy, but once we turned onto the dirt road home
(about 10 miles from town), we'd be kicking up dust. Even in those cases
though, the transition was more gradual than the rain/no rain demarcations
being discussed.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"J.B. Bobbitt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I lived there during the Great Christmas Freeze in 1983. Or 1984. One of
>those years. There was lots of damage from broken copper pipes and
>exploding electric water heaters.
>
> There's nothing uglier than a palm tree that's died from freeze. Well,
> excpet maybe LOT'S of dead palm trees.
I have lived in Houston since 1974. I remember that freeze. I was the
Service Sales Manager for an Olds dealer and there were hundreds of cars
with broken radiators being hauled in.
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:49:30 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:35:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Doesn't the Olympic Rainforest get something like 240 inches annually?
>> Amazing!
>
>The Olympic mountains are what creates the convergence zone. The Pacific
>weather moves in and hits the Olympics giving the amazing rainfall there.
>The mountains also force weather north and south heading east, and this
>weather "converges", usually somewhere from north Seattle to Everett to
>give that "enhanced" rainfall.
And that's precisely why I'll always prefer to live on the leeward
side of any mountains in the area. It's more sunny and a lot drier.
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On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:44:30 -0600, Duane Bozarth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>
>...
>> Having grown up on the plains of Colorado, and now living in Tucson
>> (where it does rain occasionally), as well as spending 17 years in Dallas,
>> the majority of rain changes I recall went from intermittent drops to
>> sprinkle to downpour, then back again. Tucson certainly seems to have more
>> of the abrupt demarcations than either Dallas or the Denver area. In
>> Colorado, I do know that the rain was often localized, i.e. while in town
>> we would experience heavy, but once we turned onto the dirt road home
>> (about 10 miles from town), we'd be kicking up dust. Even in those cases
>> though, the transition was more gradual than the rain/no rain demarcations
>> being discussed.
>...
>
>Just out of curiousity, which town on the eastern CO plains? We're
>about 30 mi from CO line in SW KS...not sure whether you were meaning
>you were 10 mi outside Denver or elsewhere.
>
Near a little town called Hudson -- it's about 30 miles north of Denver,
30 miles East of Boulder and 30 miles southeast of Greeley. My dad grew up
near Flagler, that's *way* eastern Colorado.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:
> It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
> <somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
except in Seattle where it rains everywhere, and heavier in the
convergence zone...
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:35:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Doesn't the Olympic Rainforest get something like 240 inches annually?
> Amazing!
The Olympic mountains are what creates the convergence zone. The Pacific
weather moves in and hits the Olympics giving the amazing rainfall there.
The mountains also force weather north and south heading east, and this
weather "converges", usually somewhere from north Seattle to Everett to
give that "enhanced" rainfall.
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:24:22 -0500, George wrote:
> Yep, the reason for the abundant rainfall is the elevation and cooling of
> moisture-laden air - can't be colder than the dewpoint without raining -
> by the mountains. Spills into the gaps with enhancement.
>
> Then there's the rain shadow on the other side extending through the
> intermountain region.
True - Sequim (pronounced squim), a little town on the northeast side of
the Olympic peninsula is in the shadow (aka banana belt), and get about
one third of the rainfall as Seattle.
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:21:19 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
> And that's precisely why I'll always prefer to live on the leeward side of
> any mountains in the area. It's more sunny and a lot drier.
Depends on how close to the mountains you are on the leeward side. Get a
little too far away, and you are in the convergence zone. Of course, this
only applies to a lump of mountains like the Olympics, not a wall like the
Rockies - unless you are behind a *BIG* lump :-)
- Doug
--
To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:09:10 -0600, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>Doug Winterburn wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:
>>
>> > It's a general phenomenon, of course...the precipitation line has to be
>> > <somewhere>...it just is most often not where we happen to be standing.
>>
>> except in Seattle where it rains everywhere, and heavier in the
>> convergence zone...
>
>It still stops <somewhere>... :)
>
>Spent 10 days w/ daughter in Olympia couple of weeks ago now...saw the
>sun once while there for about 30 minutes... :(
Doesn't the Olympic Rainforest get something like 240 inches annually?
Amazing!
-------------------------------------------------
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:40:04 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> through there. Serveral times he stopped and stood in the sunshine
>> a few yards from a blowing snowstorm, as if there were a wall there
>> and the storm was contained behind it. Damndest thing he ever saw.
>
>I've seen that too, here in Virginia. Almost like there's some kind of
>invisible forcefield keeping the white stuff on the other side of the line.
>Very weird.
>
>We get weather like that especially in late spring.
Ditto on Little Rock AFB in the 60s. I'd be on one side of
the street in the sunshine while it rained like hell (80F
summer rain) on the other side of the street, and I could
watch the line of wetness progress slowly toward me. Great
stuff for an 8-year-old.
-------------------------------------------------
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- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
> >
> > "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
> >
> > > Just out of curiousity, which town on the eastern CO plains? We're
> > > about 30 mi from CO line in SW KS.
> >
> > Ahh ... Lamar, CO. You could smell it long before you got there.
>
> Ahh...Ok, through there just a few weeks ago on way back home...Lamar,
> Granada, Holly, Coolidge, Syracuse, Johnson City, ...
Had an Oil and Gas leasing crew in Lamar for the better part of two years
back in the early 80's, so I made one or two trips a month from Houston.
Mostly flew to Amarillo and drove up through that little bit of OK in a rent
car, but occasionally flew to Denver and rented a plane to fly to Lamar. We
had a crew of about 15 running title and buying leases, with 6 being young
"landladies" fresh out of college. Had a good time .. even though we
eventually had to buy and install our own coffee machine in the Lamar Motel
restaurant kitchen so we could have REAL coffee.
Mighty fine folks in that part of the country, and made some good friends
...reminded me of around Web and Dimmit county, in South West Texas, with
the big ranches and open spaces.
We used to go across the state line to a small bush track in KS for quarter
horse races on Saturdays. Lots of funny stories/memories from that period in
SE Colorado.
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