I agree.
--
Ross
www.myoldtools.com
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
>
>
> No really. It does.
>
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>
>
> UA100
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> mttt wrote:
> >Dibs on Pantyhose as backups when you're low on Cheesecloth.
>
>
> Only if I get "coffee can for making circles".
Damn, you gals are good.
Along those same lines: Wear Playtex gloves to protect your hands
when applying a finish to your projects.
Charlene Vance
In article <[email protected]>,
Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote:
> Renata, you are more unusual than you might believe. I think the
> distance between women and woodworking has a lot to do with the female
> mindset. She believes she can't do it more than he believes she can't.
Tell that to my 14 year old daughter after you see the dragon-head door
plaque she cut on the bandsaw and freehand engraved with the router,
and the pieces that she's pulled off the lathe.
djb
Interspersed, including a couple rants...
Renata
On Mon, 10 May 2004 09:38:46 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>> specific kinda things.
>
>Renata, you are more unusual than you might believe. I think the
>distance between women and woodworking has a lot to do with the female
>mindset. She believes she can't do it more than he believes she can't.
Actually, I never approached this particular hobby with that attitude.
I got interested and just kinda started doing it. Never gave a
thought to, "Gee, this is a male dominated hobby; maybe I'm in over
(or is it under) my head".
But, I do realize it is a novelty to see gals pursuing it (and there
are times when this is advantageous; & times when it isn't). The
difference is between the attitude of novelty and the attitude that
somehow, because I'm a woman, I have fewer skills, abilities, innate
knowledge about the subject.
>
>Societally we've been led to believe we have innate roles and interests.
>As a stay-at-home dad for 5 years, I've been bucking tradition - and
>have read many articles on men as primary caregivers - and have felt
>uncomfortable in public at times. When folks step outside their
>traditional roles, it certainly doesn't hurt to have others let you know
>it's an OK direction you've taken. As time passed, I become less and
>less concerned about my abilities and other's perceptions about
>stay-at-home dading; similarly, I'd guess that the women who continue
>with woodworking will gravitate to mainstream publications and worry
>less about being out of their "female" role.
Gravitate TO??? I've been attracted to stuff like FWW from way back,
and when I pick up one of those crafty magazines (intended for women
only or not), I usually find little that interests me (that's ME -
YMMV).
I like Charlie's "cash cow joining the herd" analogy. That
perspective is understandable. What I have an issue with is thinking
that particular cow is "stoopid" so we gotta gear our product to a
lower level.
I do what I like and don't worry about being out of my "traditional"
female role. Sure, there are (obvious & not) differences between
guys and gals, but none of them precludes one from doing ww'g stuff.
The neighbor down the street tells me that he thinks carpentry
knowledge is genetic. Well, if it is, it sure ain't based on the x
and y chromosones. I've seen many a guy who wasn't sure about which
end of a hammer to use (ok, so I exaggerate a tad), or who ran a drill
bit (3/4" into a PT post) in reverse for literally 15 minutes, not
understanding that there might be a reason why it wasn't going thru
(started smoking and we put a stop to it; relegated him to none
tool-using tasks).
Main point.
See, if I were to get together w/ww'ers, I want to get together with a
group of knowledgeable folks who share the interest. Usually,
limiting it to women only eliminates a large number of folks
(especially seeing as hw this IS a male dominated hobby) who meet
those criteria. So, spare me the women-only retreats, workshops, etc.
ad naseum.
Renata <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
> different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
> specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
> (and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
> What's the deal?
>
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
>
> Thanx
> Renata
Actually, I do think there are differences. For one thing, fewer women
are deaf to high frequencies and we HEAR more of the noise of the
machines, IMHO. Ask teachers, I'd bet they notice that women are more
often safety minded. Typically shorter than males, many women adapt
their materials handling to that fact as well. Documentation might
need changes too, women are more often alone, learning through books
and videos, without a shop course EVER.
Any time you have a new user group that's lower in age, size, strength
and income, wouldn't you think there might be some consumer behavior
changes as well? I've found more women with Japanese tools because
they fit a smaller hand better, for instance. (I also think Festool is
overlooking THE biggest long term market they could possibly target at
this time, while they're still enjoying a virtual monopoly on the
issue of a complete dust control tool line.)
Way back when, I figured the problem would be closer to "solved"
around 2015. If you look at demographic trends, the guys who are in
charge are mostly WW II cohorts. When they die off, the attitude of
magazines will be more informed by people who grew up with fewer
expectations of gender bias.
--
Renata <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
> different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
> specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
> (and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
> What's the deal?
>
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
>
> Thanx
> Renata
When you're done explaining it to Renata, I may need to hear it, too.
I don't post often here because I am Doug Miller's SWMBO, and he says
enough for both of us...;-), but I don't "get it" either, when it
comes to "women's woodworking."
I think the real reason there are not more women in woodworking is
because we don't have the TIME for such a hobby. I fit it in when I
can, between the kid's activities, full time work, social/church
activities, and other hobbies.
With Doug as a full-time at-home wood worker now, he has taken up a
lot those sorts of duties, and my woodworking time has greatly
increased. :-)
But I still don't understand why we women need something "special."
Indyrose
By the way, I also hunt and fish, and I'm a manufacturing engineer...
and I keep Doug very happy. :-)
On Wed, 12 May 2004 03:24:11 GMT, Tom Veatch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10 May 2004 20:21:49 -0700, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>
>>Had to post this gem from their homepage:
>>
>>"I'm a beginning furniture maker. Some of the woodworkers I've met
>>recently recommend I use a jig. What exactly is a jig and what can I
>>use it for?"
>>
>>There ya go - want to make furniture, use a jig. Anyone know where I
>>can get this magic jig?
>>
>
>I've not seen the magazine in question, much less read it. But, don't forget there's a vast difference between ignorance and
>stupidity. The referenced question arises out of ignorance, but we all started in that state. Seriously, the very first time you
>came in contact with a woodworking tool, did you know what a jig was and how, or under what circumstances, one could/should be used
>- or the difference between a jig and a fixture?
>
>(I assume the questioner was a "she", based on the magazine's reported focus.) The fact that she is asking the question implies a
>laudable attempt to increase her knowledge. Whether or not the magazine is laughable depends on how the question is/was handled.
>
>I suspect the (probably male) "woodworkers (she) met recently" were either showing off or didn't recognize her low level of
>knowledge. She should have asked the question of those "woodworkers" at the time the subject was raised and perhaps would have in
>an all-female environment. The forum she chose may be more comfortable for her as it offers a degree of anonymity and protection
>from embarrassment that would not be available in a face to face conversation.
that's the cool thing about the net. a dripping wet greenhorn
woodworker can lurk a forum or three until they're ready to ask a
question or three, and then can use any name that seems ike it would
get the answers needed from that particular group. hey, who's to say
that someone asking how to cut a board under the name Floyd Barker
isn't actually a 17 year old girl?
>
>Lots of assumptions, postulations, suppositions, and WAGs in the above, but the point is, the magazine has an opportunity to offer
>some very basic, entry level education in a non-threatening, non-intimidating forum. I further suspect that, if the magazine does
>that successfully, the readership will fairly quickly outgrow the magazine. But, there is nothing wrong with that since those lady's
>daughters will be coming along behind them. True, the same thing could be done in any basic, entry level magazine not specifically
>aimed at women. But, as Renata mentioned, there are obvious, and not so obvious, differences between the male and female of our
>species. If such a magazine can appeal to those differences and attract or retain ladies in this avocation, aren't we all the richer
>for it?
>
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS USA
On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:13:56 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
>it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
>It sucks.
Magazines like that usually do.
But then again, maybe a woman somewhere will start out scroll sawing a
bunny fence, like it, and end up with something featured in FWW or a
juried show!
I've known men who jumped into the pool because of some el' lamo
Family Handyman article.
Barry
Barry writes:
>>
>>It sucks.
>
>Magazines like that usually do.
>
>But then again, maybe a woman somewhere will start out scroll sawing a
>bunny fence, like it, and end up with something featured in FWW or a
>juried show!
>
>I've known men who jumped into the pool because of some el' lamo
>Family Handyman article.
Yeah, but FH didn't start out lame.
I picked up a copy of Woodworking for Women and put it back in about 2 minutes.
A quick glance showed that it was writing down to its audience while pretending
to write up to it.
Hate to see it, because there's no need for that, though a good woodworking mag
for women should do well enough to stay around. I'm just not sure how they can
position it so the woodworking instruction, tool tests and projects will be
much, or any, different than those in non-gender isolated magazines.
Have it all written by women? Maybe, but pick women like Barb Siddiqi and Carol
Reed to start, I think. People who have been woodworkers for a good length of
time and know what is going on in the shop beyond the scroll saw.
Charlie Self
"An unfulfilled vocation drains the color from a man's entire existence."
Honore de Balzac
In article <[email protected]>, "mttt" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Indyrose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>> By the way, I also hunt and fish, and I'm a manufacturing engineer...
>> and I keep Doug very happy. :-)
>
>And have impeccible taste in Neckwear, it seems! :)
>
She picked that up at a garage sale many years ago, figuring that I'd be able
to win the annual IS Dept. ugly tie contest.
She was right: it was declared the winner by acclamation without a vote, over
the protest of one guy who wanted to disqualify it because it obviously lacked
amateur standing. :-)
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
> different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
> specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
> (and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
> What's the deal?
>
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
>
> Thanx
> Renata
I guess it's because women who are in woodworking should be making things
like dolls and pukey ducks. When they're not fetching their husband a cold
drink while he's doing the real woodworking, that is. So, if you're making
furniture, you'd better stop right now and call your husband to take over.
If you don't have a husband, well, you'd better put the whole woodworking
thing on hold for now and get that straightened out first.
todd
Having read some of the more "he-man" type comments in this thread,
e.g., akin to the woman's place is to get cold drinks for the man in
the shop (which I somewhat graciously presume are tongue in cheek), I
don't think gender has anything to do with the development, or lack
thereof, nor execution of any of the skills used in working with wood.
Its all a function of how much energy you want to put into learning
and developing those skills. Yeah, maybe women as a class have
smaller hands, and drills and the like designed for smaller hands
would benefit estrogen-based woodworkers and not matter that much to
the testosterone-based ones, but IMHO that's about it.
I also dispute any suggestion that individuals are gender-disabled
from thinking about wwing in a way that men do; hell, my own brother
can't sharpen a stick, much less make a Townsend Secretary or
grandfather clock - he just doesn't get the
time/space/material/mechanical/technique melding into a finished
project concept, and never will. He's got X and Y chromosomes, but no
ability to conceive and execute. Some women are the same way. Others
prefer to use glue guns to make decorative items or do scroll saw
projects because it makes them feel good; just like it makes me feel
good to turn a rocking chair. A lot of men use their mechanical
skills in other ways; one guy I know does needlework, and really nice
needlework, but has no interest in wood as a raw material. He'd
likely make a pretty good furniture project if he put his mind to it.
Folks like Renata, I assume, make pretty much the same stuff that I
do, and do it pretty much the same way, and I say great.
Now, as to the mag WWing for Women, well, hey, America's a great
country, and if there is a profit in the mag, more power to 'em, but I
don't really think that FWW, WWJ, Wood or any other "traditional"
wwing magazine excludes women readership. Nor do I think W for W will
last.
Mutt
Renata <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
> different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
> specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
> (and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
> What's the deal?
>
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
>
> Thanx
> Renata
biggmutt responds:
>uch energy you want to put into learning
>and developing those skills. Yeah, maybe women as a class have
>smaller hands, and drills and the like designed for smaller hands
>would benefit estrogen-based woodworkers and not matter that much to
>the testosterone-based ones, but IMHO that's about it.
>
>I also dispute any suggestion that individuals are gender-disabled
>from thinking about wwing in a way that men do; hell, my own brother
>can't sharpen a stick, much less make a Townsend Secretary or
>grandfather clock - he just doesn't get the
>time/space/material/mechanical/technique melding into a finished
>project concept, and never will.
Many years ago, I read some research that flatly stated--I think based on WWII
assembly needs--that women were better at tasks that require good eye-hand
coordination on a sustained basis. Something about the way their brains were
wired. Been too long to recall details, but it does seem that IF that's true,
there are numerous areas of woodworking where women would do measurably better
than men, given similar training and interests.
Maybe 30-40 years from now, there will be a definitive answer, though I doubt
it, because I think on an overall basis it doesn't make any difference. Some
people are better at some things than at other things. Gender has something to
do with it only because of culturally determined factors like expectations and
training.
So there should be no real, long term need for specialized publications for
women in woodworking, but the existence of such magazines may provide some
simplified methods for interesting larger numbers of women in the recreation.
It would be nice if accuracy were a criterion which tends to depend on
experience, which may mean that you can't totally staff a magazine with women.
Look, for a quick example, at Woodworker's Journal and Popular Woodworking:
Each now has at least one competent woman on staff. I don't really know what
kind of woodworking experience either of these women have, but the results in
the photography and articles have been, IMO, been favorable. Other magazines
may have female staff members, but I've paid less attention there because I
haven't met them or worked with them.
AFAIK, though, neither is relegated to crafty projects: They share editorial
duties fully.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
Dunno' if Testosterone and Horsepower are really kharmically connected, in a
Tim Allen, sense or not. It would be interesting to play Jane Goodall and
watch an integrated woodworking class - as I'd suspect the XX participants
approach problem solving differently than the XY's.
"Conan the Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> B*st*rd ... I was hoping to get that one published. I guess that
> means I need to go back and work on my "using disposable paintbrushes
> for spreading glue" essay.
Dibs on Pantyhose as backups when you're low on Cheesecloth.
In article <[email protected]>,
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Unisaw A100 wrote:
>> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
>> it home and read it cover to cover.
>>
>> It sucks.
>>
>> No really. It does.
>>
>> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>>
>> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>>
>
>do you get Cosmo too?
Not just the magazine, the whole cosmo-line. <groan>
On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>different than men when it comes to woodworking?
Well you probably don't have to scratch your balls as often when the
shop gets all hot and humid. Then again, I don't have to dig clumps
of sawdust out of my bra... :)
Unless you freehand a router with your pinkies extended, I'm fairly
certain we do woodworking pretty much the same. ;>
Michael
Who thinks the magazine in question is so condescending it's an
embarrassment to the entire wwing community.
On Wed, 12 May 2004 09:20:27 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tom Veatch wrote:
>>The referenced question arises out of ignorance,
>>but we all started in that state.
>
>
>In this particular case I think the question was contrived
>by the magazine. It was a chance for the magazine to act as
>the house organ for their advertiser Woodcraft.
>
>Not saying what you had said isn't true.
>
>UA100
Well, I did assume the question was honest, but I have been known to display an astonishing amount of naivety. I've got to work on
that. It makes me an easy target for trolls.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
On Wed, 12 May 2004 20:52:13 GMT, Tom Veatch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:39:14 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>that's the cool thing about the net. a dripping wet greenhorn
>>woodworker can lurk a forum or three until they're ready to ask a
>>question or three, and then can use any name that seems ike it would
>>get the answers needed from that particular group. hey, who's to say
>>that someone asking how to cut a board under the name Floyd Barker
>>isn't actually a 17 year old girl?
>
>I couldn't agree more.
>
>But that does assume that the "dripping wet greenhorn" is aware the forum exists. It could be more likely the 17 year old girl will
>see the magazine on a newsstand than happen across an appropriate forum on the net. Trying to remember how I discovered the wRECk
>and I'm drawing a complete blank. I'm pretty sure I was aware of various woodworking magazines before I found this (and other)
>network discussion groups.
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS USA
me too, but that may be a generational thing. 17 year olds today may
be as or more attuned to the net for information than magazines....
Tom Veatch wrote:
>I've got to work on that. It makes me an easy target for trolls.
Trolls I would worry nothing about. What you really want to
watch for are Nigerians needing a place to stash some extra
cash.
UA100, who doesn't actually mind the Nigerians needing a
bank account for stashing extra cash onna 'count of it only
affects those at the shallow end of the gene pool...
Tom Veatch wrote:
>The referenced question arises out of ignorance,
>but we all started in that state.
In this particular case I think the question was contrived
by the magazine. It was a chance for the magazine to act as
the house organ for their advertiser Woodcraft.
Not saying what you had said isn't true.
UA100
UA100 responds:
>
>Tom Veatch wrote:
>>The referenced question arises out of ignorance,
>>but we all started in that state.
>
>
>In this particular case I think the question was contrived
>by the magazine. It was a chance for the magazine to act as
>the house organ for their advertiser Woodcraft.
>
>Not saying what you had said isn't true.
Unfortunately, the answers are almost as broad as are the questions in this
one. "Quite simply, a jig is anything used to make repetitive parts. Typically
a jig guides a router bit through a specific, repeatable cutting action,
allowing you to make identical pieces." Jigs may or may not make reproduction
of identical parts possible. They do make repetitive identical cuts possible,
but there is no need for the cuts to form "parts." A good example for my point
is a dado jig for a router. Hell, even a rabbeting bit is a jig all on its
own. It forms ledges on parts, not parts. THe rabbeting ledge on a jointer
might be considered a jig, as well.
Typically, a jig can be used with almost any tool, not just a router. Anyone
with a jig for their tabllesaw, raise your hand. For your dirll press? For your
shaper? For your bandsaw?
The original question should have been reduced in scope, giving it some focus,
and then an answer would have been possible, and easier to make clear.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Typically, a jig can be used with almost any tool, not just a router.
Anyone
> with a jig for their tabllesaw, raise your hand. For your dirll press? For
your
> shaper? For your bandsaw?
I've always considered a jig to be just a home made tool designed to let you
accomplish a task easier than it would normally be.
Upscale notes:
>
>"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Typically, a jig can be used with almost any tool, not just a router.
>Anyone
>> with a jig for their tabllesaw, raise your hand. For your dirll press? For
>your
>> shaper? For your bandsaw?
>
>I've always considered a jig to be just a home made tool designed to let you
>accomplish a task easier than it would normally be.
>
That's true for most, but not all. Dovetail jigs are but one example, as are a
wide variety of others.
Jigs are designed to make repetitive tasks easier and more accurate, or, as in
the case of crosscut sleds, to make individual actions easier and more
accurate--and, often, safer.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
On 10 May 2004 20:21:49 -0700, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Had to post this gem from their homepage:
>
>"I'm a beginning furniture maker. Some of the woodworkers I've met
>recently recommend I use a jig. What exactly is a jig and what can I
>use it for?"
>
>There ya go - want to make furniture, use a jig. Anyone know where I
>can get this magic jig?
>
I've not seen the magazine in question, much less read it. But, don't forget there's a vast difference between ignorance and
stupidity. The referenced question arises out of ignorance, but we all started in that state. Seriously, the very first time you
came in contact with a woodworking tool, did you know what a jig was and how, or under what circumstances, one could/should be used
- or the difference between a jig and a fixture?
(I assume the questioner was a "she", based on the magazine's reported focus.) The fact that she is asking the question implies a
laudable attempt to increase her knowledge. Whether or not the magazine is laughable depends on how the question is/was handled.
I suspect the (probably male) "woodworkers (she) met recently" were either showing off or didn't recognize her low level of
knowledge. She should have asked the question of those "woodworkers" at the time the subject was raised and perhaps would have in
an all-female environment. The forum she chose may be more comfortable for her as it offers a degree of anonymity and protection
from embarrassment that would not be available in a face to face conversation.
Lots of assumptions, postulations, suppositions, and WAGs in the above, but the point is, the magazine has an opportunity to offer
some very basic, entry level education in a non-threatening, non-intimidating forum. I further suspect that, if the magazine does
that successfully, the readership will fairly quickly outgrow the magazine. But, there is nothing wrong with that since those lady's
daughters will be coming along behind them. True, the same thing could be done in any basic, entry level magazine not specifically
aimed at women. But, as Renata mentioned, there are obvious, and not so obvious, differences between the male and female of our
species. If such a magazine can appeal to those differences and attract or retain ladies in this avocation, aren't we all the richer
for it?
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
--WebTV-Mail-20322-2909
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Best post I've read in this thread.
When you first started out with this wonderful craft. Did you know what
a jig was, or what a dado was or what tool to use for what job. Did you
know the difference between a finishing sander or and orbital sander, or
to make it convenient to make sliding tables for your TS.
I think not.
Everybody has to start someplace to learn anything.
I see a lot of questions in here asked by Men. Some with some knowledge
, others with none. But you answer their questions , with honesty and
helpful answers.
Why pick on females. It is widely known that women have more patience
than men. If we can raise kids and put up with men. We can surely learn
woodwoking.
The differnece between Men and Boys are the size and cost of their Toys.
Pat.
--WebTV-Mail-20322-2909
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Pat wrote:
> Best post I've read in this thread.
>
> When you first started out with this wonderful craft. Did you
> know what a jig was, or what a dado was or what tool to use
> for what job. Did you know the difference between a finishing
> sander or and orbital sander, or to make it convenient to make
> sliding tables for your TS.
>
> I think not.
>
> Everybody has to start someplace to learn anything.
>
> I see a lot of questions in here asked by Men. Some with some
> knowledge, others with none. But you answer their questions,
> with honesty and helpful answers.
Generally, yes - would you expect otherwise?
> Why pick on females. It is widely known that women have more
> patience than men. If we can raise kids and put up with men.
> We can surely learn woodwoking.
Are you implying that the typical response to a female poster is
of an unfriendly mien? If so, then I'll have to disagree. Most of
the male woodworkers I know (and that's nearly /all/ of the
woodworkers I know) are pleased to have /anyone/ share their
interests and enthusiasm for crafting useful/beautiful things
from wood.
My observations here (and in usenet in general) have led me to
conclude that it is the mouthy, judgmental, and /wrong/ posters
who get picked on and draw the huge majority of flamings.
[The "rule of thumb" that's served me well has been to keep my
mouth shut when I'm not reasonably sure of my facts, speak up
when I can offer help (or a "well-done"), and to be wary of being
tempted to put down any person, idea, or creation.]
It may be widely known to you that women have more patience than
men; but my experience has shown me that while *some* women do
indeed have more patience than *some* men, it's also true that
*some* men have more patience than *some* women.
[I more than suspect that men and women are "wired" differently
in some ways; and that these differences provide strengths for
both genders. For example, (in general) women seem able to
multi-task better than men. This seems to be an advantage for
women in the same way that it is an advantage for men to be able
narrow their concentration to focus all of their abilities on a
single task. As best I can tell, all of these "wiring"
differences are complementary; and it seems foolish to pronounce
one or the other trait of the complementary pair "best". YMMV]
If you can do an above average job of raising kids and putting up
with men, then you have my respect and a measure of admiration
that depends strongly on how far above average that is - which is
no different than my yardstick for men who do an above average
job of raising kids and putting up with women. (-:
None of which has anything to do with learning woodworking. It's
not a gender-dependent activity. Making a serious attempt to make
gender an issue in a woodworking forum probably won't produce
much in the way of either respect or admiration.
> The differnece between Men and Boys are the size and cost of
> their Toys.
Ok; I'll take the bait and suggest that in time you'll learn that
the difference between /adults/ and /children/ (of either gender)
is their capability to do good *and* their capability to do harm.
If you read "the wwrec" for a while, you'll discover that there's
a significant number of "neander" woodworkers who have a passion
for working with hand tools (frequently shop-made or restored);
and that members of this newsgroup, both "neanders" and
"normites", claim and award a certain amount of status in the
form of "gloats" and "neeners" - both of which have to do with
acquiring requisite tools or materials at *low* cost.
I've written more than I'd intended. You may find browsing one of
the archive sites for alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking of some
interest. I was impressed by how many (nearly all!) of the most
beautiful woodworking has been done to delight a spouse. /That's/
where the gender factor comes into play.
If you have a woodworking question, you /can/ expect to receive
honest and helpful answers. It's still possible that you might
get picked on either because you've earned it (see paragraph 2)
or because you've given some indication that you have a ready
sense of humor and are prepared for some friendly banter.
I love fine hand tools - but have a normite shop. You're invited
to tour http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/pix.html. If you browse the
rest of the web site, you'll discover why it's a normite shop
(but a sharp eye may find some much cared-for old tools that come
out when I start working on gifts :-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
> I see a lot of questions in here asked by Men. Some with some knowledge
> , others with none. But you answer their questions , with honesty and
> helpful answers.
Whoa! We talking about the same wreck? If so, please point out those
helpful individuals so we can either block them from the group or spoof
their replies. Only thing we need more of in this place is sarcasm.
> Why pick on females. It is widely known that women have more patience
> than men. If we can raise kids and put up with men. We can surely learn
> woodwoking.
[ Pssstttt.. F7 is the speeeel cheker. ]
Now hold on there missy! I've got plenty of patients. And I raise kids too.
And I put up with men too. And even wommen, come to think of it...
> The differnece between Men and Boys are the size and cost of their Toys.
Sooner or later, they all throw the size thing back atcha'.
> Pat.
Me too.
Was that JIGS ?? or JUGS??
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Had to post this gem from their homepage:
>
> "I'm a beginning furniture maker. Some of the woodworkers I've met
> recently recommend I use a jig. What exactly is a jig and what can I
> use it for?"
>
> There ya go - want to make furniture, use a jig. Anyone know where I
> can get this magic jig?
>
> Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> > it home and read it cover to cover.
> >
> >
> > It sucks.
> >
> >
> > No really. It does.
> >
> >
> > But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
> >
> >
> > http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
> >
> >
> > UA100
Had to post this gem from their homepage:
"I'm a beginning furniture maker. Some of the woodworkers I've met
recently recommend I use a jig. What exactly is a jig and what can I
use it for?"
There ya go - want to make furniture, use a jig. Anyone know where I
can get this magic jig?
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
>
>
> No really. It does.
>
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>
>
> UA100
On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:11:19 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote:
>Trolls I would worry nothing about. What you really want to
>watch for are Nigerians needing a place to stash some extra
>cash.
>
>UA100, who doesn't actually mind the Nigerians needing a
>bank account for stashing extra cash onna 'count of it only
>affects those at the shallow end of the gene pool...
Naive, I may be. But I don't think my Mama raised any _stupid_ kids. I got one of those Nigerian Scam thingies the other day from
someplace other than Nigeria. Don't recall of which country he was some high-ranking minister, but I did notice it wasn't Nigeria.
If it ain't from Nigeria, it must be OK, huh?
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
Renata wrote:
> Main point. See, if I were to get together w/ww'ers, I want to
> get together with a group of knowledgeable folks who share the
> interest. Usually, limiting it to women only eliminates a
> large number of folks (especially seeing as hw this IS a male
> dominated hobby) who meet those criteria.
The knowledge and expertise is splattered about fairly unevenly
here - but it's available.
I'm glad you're here. My own experience has been that men and
women (perhaps because of biases introduced in our upbringing;
but perhaps something else) frequently approach work, play, and
problems with (slight to huge) differences in perspectives.
(That effect is also visible in multi-lingual problem-solving
teams: a synergism of mental pathways - I wonder if the effects
are related...)
Welcome to a forum where your knowledge, expertise, /and/
perspective will be valued.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
"Mutt" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> A lot of men use their mechanical
> skills in other ways; one guy I know does needlework, and really nice
> needlework, but has no interest in wood as a raw material. He'd
> likely make a pretty good furniture project if he put his mind to it.
> Folks like Renata, I assume, make pretty much the same stuff that I
> do, and do it pretty much the same way, and I say great.
>
> Now, as to the mag WWing for Women, well, hey, America's a great
> country, and if there is a profit in the mag, more power to 'em, but I
> don't really think that FWW, WWJ, Wood or any other "traditional"
> wwing magazine excludes women readership. Nor do I think W for W will
> last.
>
> Mutt
I have to agree. (I know a doctor that does needlework also) The only thing
that bothers me is the gender specific thing is tolerated for women, but not
for men. I'm not just talking ww here. A woman is welcome in my shop at any
time. I guess it is possibly a case of reverse discrimination.
Ed
Ed Pawlowski notes:
>The only thing
>that bothers me is the gender specific thing is tolerated for women, but not
>for men. I'm not just talking ww here.
True. If a woman wears pants, all is well. If a man wears pants, and they're
not plaid, all sorts of assumptions are made, warranted or not. A woman is
comfortable. A man is cross-dressing.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> True. If a woman wears pants, all is well. If a man wears pants, and
> they're not plaid, all sorts of assumptions are made, warranted or
> not. A woman is comfortable. A man is cross-dressing.
>
> Charlie Self
>
???
patriarch responds:
>[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
><snip>
>> True. If a woman wears pants, all is well. If a man wears pants, and
>> they're not plaid, all sorts of assumptions are made, warranted or
>> not. A woman is comfortable. A man is cross-dressing.
>>
>> Charlie Self
>>
>
>???
Yeah, well..if he wears two pairs? No?Replace pants #2 with with skirts.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Yeah, well..if he wears two pairs? No?Replace pants #2 with with skirts.
I knew whatcha meant - but thought it was damned funnier your first way.
Kind'a a Norm Crosby humor thing...
do you get Cosmo too?
dave
Unisaw A100 wrote:
>
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
>
>
> No really. It does.
>
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>
>
> UA100
(not sure this post went thru) anyway, do you get Cosmo and
Family Circle too, Keeter-Sue?
dave
Unisaw A100 wrote:
>
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
>
>
> No really. It does.
>
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>
>
> UA100
On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:39:14 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>that's the cool thing about the net. a dripping wet greenhorn
>woodworker can lurk a forum or three until they're ready to ask a
>question or three, and then can use any name that seems ike it would
>get the answers needed from that particular group. hey, who's to say
>that someone asking how to cut a board under the name Floyd Barker
>isn't actually a 17 year old girl?
I couldn't agree more.
But that does assume that the "dripping wet greenhorn" is aware the forum exists. It could be more likely the 17 year old girl will
see the magazine on a newsstand than happen across an appropriate forum on the net. Trying to remember how I discovered the wRECk
and I'm drawing a complete blank. I'm pretty sure I was aware of various woodworking magazines before I found this (and other)
network discussion groups.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
Ayup - Safeway had it here.
> It sucks.
Ayup. Also thought it was somewhere between demeaning and insulting.
Unisaw A100 wrote:
> What types of woodworking projects most often require jigs?
>
> I've seen jigs for sale, but there are so many variations
> that I'm confused. What type of jig should I get?
>
> Can you recommend some jigs that would be good for furniture
> making.
>
> Are there any special tips you have for using jigs.
And this is different from the wreck exactly how?
> According to the article many of the answers to these
> perplexing questions can be found at www.woodcraft.com
>
> Rumor has it that BitchSlapBobZajicek is doing an entire
> page on using your ear to keep your a pencil handy when in
> the shop. Trouble is he has to publish under the name
> Roberta.
B*st*rd ... I was hoping to get that one published. I guess that
means I need to go back and work on my "using disposable paintbrushes
for spreading glue" essay.
Charlene Vance
Charlene Vance responds:
>>
>> Rumor has it that BitchSlapBobZajicek is doing an entire
>> page on using your ear to keep your a pencil handy when in
>> the shop. Trouble is he has to publish under the name
>> Roberta.
>
> B*st*rd ... I was hoping to get that one published. I guess that
>means I need to go back and work on my "using disposable paintbrushes
>for spreading glue" essay.
>
>
How about for RNs only (female type, of course) using tongue depressors to
spread glue?
I went to pick up the jigs article to see who wrote it, and to get a bit of a
mean laugh, but, damn, the second edition is there with articles on "Tomboy
Tools" which is a company that does home parties, a la Tupperware, I guess,
with tools designed especially for women. There's also an interview with Matt
& Shari from HGTV, focusing on such great woodworking projects as a huge
birdhouse to house a TV set, a 7' lighthouse for beach towel and game
storage...and, oh, I won't go on.
Oh, yeah. I just found it. This second issue does have the jig article. Lori
Mossor is the writer. Lori's a nice kid, but this is the first I've heard her
described as a woodworker. I knew she painted furniture.
Maybe it will shake down and be a good addition, but at the moment, the SIPs
from Meredith (BH&G) and Woman's Day do a much better job of presenting craft
projects that apparently are all designed and built by advertisers.
Im not sure I want to show this to my wife. She may pop me upside the head for
wasting nearly 5 bucks.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
Indyrose wrote:
> Renata <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>> different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
>> specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
>> (and, etc. , I'm sure).
>>
>> What's the deal?
>>
>> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>> specific kinda things.
>>
>> Thanx
>> Renata
>
> When you're done explaining it to Renata, I may need to hear it, too.
> I don't post often here because I am Doug Miller's SWMBO, and he says
> enough for both of us...;-), but I don't "get it" either, when it
> comes to "women's woodworking."
>
> I think the real reason there are not more women in woodworking is
> because we don't have the TIME for such a hobby. I fit it in when I
> can, between the kid's activities, full time work, social/church
> activities, and other hobbies.
>
> With Doug as a full-time at-home wood worker now, he has taken up a
> lot those sorts of duties, and my woodworking time has greatly
> increased. :-)
>
> But I still don't understand why we women need something "special."
The need is simple. Someone noticed a discrepancy between the actual and
desired size of his or her bank balance and estimated that selling a
magazine to female woodworkers would be efficacious in adjusting that
discrepancy.
It's not about need, it's about greed.
> Indyrose
>
> By the way, I also hunt and fish, and I'm a manufacturing engineer...
> and I keep Doug very happy. :-)
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
: Actually, I never approached this particular hobby with that attitude.
: I got interested and just kinda started doing it. Never gave a
: thought to, "Gee, this is a male dominated hobby; maybe I'm in over
: (or is it under) my head".
: But, I do realize it is a novelty to see gals pursuing it (and there
: are times when this is advantageous; & times when it isn't). The
: difference is between the attitude of novelty and the attitude that
: somehow, because I'm a woman, I have fewer skills, abilities, innate
: knowledge about the subject.
But there are some MEN who feel that way about women doing woodworking.
And there's the difference.
See the letter in the current Fine Woodworking, by a woman with a lot of
experience as a woodworker, and who is now running a training
center.
-- Andy Barss
On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:17:24 -0700, [email protected]
wrote:
>On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>>different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
>>specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
>>(and, etc. , I'm sure).
>>
>>What's the deal?
>>
>>Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>>accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>>specific kinda things.
>>
>>Thanx
>>Renata
>
>
>
>hey, everybody knows that woodworking is a guy thing. I mean it's
>obvious that gurlz can't use tools. besides, aren't they supposed to
>be off somewhere playing with dolls or something?
>
>computers too. everybody knows that gurls can't use computers....
>
>sheesh......
>
>
Hey Bridger,
Shhh! Somebody might hear you! ;-)
On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:13:56 +0000, Unisaw A100 wrote:
>
>
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took it home and
> read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
>
>
> No really. It does.
>
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
Oh mannnnn, more pukey ducks - and I was lookin' for two scantily clad
babes in their home made speed boat.
-Doug
--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw
Mike wrote:
>Had to post this gem from their homepage:
>
>"I'm a beginning furniture maker. Some of the woodworkers I've met
>recently recommend I use a jig. What exactly is a jig and what can I
>use it for?"
>
>There ya go - want to make furniture, use a jig. Anyone know where I
>can get this magic jig?
Oh it actually gets better (OK, worse) that this. The above
is part of an entire page on jigs. The writer of the
article is a "marketing specialist" from Woodcraft.
Additional questions include:
What types of woodworking projects most often require jigs?
I've seen jigs for sale, but there are so many variations
that I'm confused. What type of jig should I get?
Can you recommend some jigs that would be good for furniture
making.
Are there any special tips you have for using jigs.
According to the article many of the answers to these
perplexing questions can be found at www.woodcraft.com
Rumor has it that BitchSlapBobZajicek is doing an entire
page on using your ear to keep your a pencil handy when in
the shop. Trouble is he has to publish under the name
Roberta.
UA100
UA100 writes:
>
>Oh it actually gets better (OK, worse) that this. The above
>is part of an entire page on jigs. The writer of the
>article is a "marketing specialist" from Woodcraft.
>Additional questions include:
>
>What types of woodworking projects most often require jigs?
>
>I've seen jigs for sale, but there are so many variations
>that I'm confused. What type of jig should I get?
>
>Can you recommend some jigs that would be good for furniture
>making.
>
>Are there any special tips you have for using jigs.
>
>According to the article many of the answers to these
>perplexing questions can be found at www.woodcraft.com
I love it.
Did the "marketing specialist" have a name?
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
UA100 responds:
>>Did the "marketing specialist" have a name?
>
>
>Lori Mosser.
>
>Looked to me like she had an entire career wrapped up in the
>article.
Yeah, well...as I wrote earlier, Lori is a nice young woman, but I'd cool my
jets considerably before I'd class her as a woodworker of any real experience.
AFAIK, they're down to 2 real woodworkers in the corporate office.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>specific kinda things.
Renata,
You, my wife, and some women I hang out with are on the same page.
I'm probably gonna get hammered for this somehow, because somebody's
going to misconstrue it, but here goes. Some women STILL, in 2004,
feel intimidated to participate in certain activities if they are
outnumbered by men.
One of my woman friends, whom I mountain bike with on a regular basis,
also leads and arranges women-only rides. This woman will put an
awful lot of men to shame on the trail, as well as the ski slope. She
leads "chick rides" (her words) out of a sense of duty to the sport,
not necessarily because it's her favorite way to ride trails. She has
on several occasions described most of the women who seek these
opportunities out as having "issues", usually of an inferiority
complex type.
Barry
"MN Guy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
> They
> should have an article on how to bring their husbands an occasional
> glass of water while they're working
My, what a poor attitude. Bring a glass or water??? This is the 21st
century and you should recognize that any woman is capable or more than
that. She should be making iced tea. And serving the lemon slice on the
side.
Ed
On Thu, 13 May 2004 21:59:41 GMT, Tom Veatch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>If it ain't from Nigeria, it must be OK, huh?
I'm still waiting for those guys to deposit the million in my
accounts. I've sent the data several times!
Barry
Women in woodworking? What next - professional basketball? They
should have an article on how to bring their husbands an occasional
glass of water while they're working or how to administer a full body
massage - downtown Oriental Spa style. Didn't realize woodworking was
gender specific.
To fill up a magazine with a bunch a fat dykes does nothing to further
their cause. I shall cancel my subscription at once.
They need a woodworking chick mag like the biker magazines - you know,
something that has a brown paper obscuring the front cover and higher
up on the shelf. Come to think of it, I really haven't broken in my
new table saw the way I did my office desk...
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
> it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
> It sucks.
> No really. It does.
>
> But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
> http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
>specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
>(and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
>What's the deal?
>
>Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>specific kinda things.
>
>Thanx
>Renata
hey, everybody knows that woodworking is a guy thing. I mean it's
obvious that gurlz can't use tools. besides, aren't they supposed to
be off somewhere playing with dolls or something?
computers too. everybody knows that gurls can't use computers....
sheesh......
On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
>specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
>(and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
>What's the deal?
>
>Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>specific kinda things.
>
>Thanx
>Renata
Ya know, Renata - I saw this thread and wondered to myself - "What is
that Barski woman going to say when she gets ahold of all this crap?"
I've been reading the Wreck in an irregular fashion - so I had to go
hunting for your response.
I'm pleased to note that you are still the driest and tastiest of
Martinis as regards responding to untoward provocation.
The obvious answer is, and always will be, that whether you are xx or
xy don't make a damned bit of difference when it comes to wooddorking.
I haven't seen the magazine, but the very concept of a separate entity
to deal with "women's issues" in the regard of wooddorking is a flawed
concept and is prolly the result of of some marketing jackass trying
to sell some more un-needed pulp.
I am further happy to note that y'all ain't buying the reasoning and
won't prolly be buying the rag anytime soon, neither.
I've worked with both male and female pro wooddorkers and found the
only differences to be that the girls had cleaner trucks and didn't
fart near as much at lunchtime.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
(and, etc. , I'm sure).
What's the deal?
Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
specific kinda things.
Thanx
Renata
On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:13:56 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>Seeing this at the Pick 'N Save I purchased a copy. I took
>it home and read it cover to cover.
>
>
>It sucks.
>
>
>No really. It does.
>
>
>But at least they feature two women on this month's cover.
>
>
>http://www.woodworkingforwomenmagazine.com
>
>
>UA100
edfan wrote:
>Of course it's a new market. All the high-target males who were gonna
>buy a $1,600 Unisaw have already done so. The average American
>woodworker is white, male and over 65 (according to American
>Demographics magazine). That means companies had better find a larger
>target soon - their buyer pool is literally dying off.
Yahbut, they average wooddorker has always been white, male
and 65(ish) and they've been dying for years.
What the industry needs is to find a new and improved Norm.
The old one just isn't cutting it/taking anyone to the next
level.
UA100
Renata asks:
>an someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>different than men when it comes to woodworking. I mean, we have,
>specifically for women only, wwg magazines, lectures, and workshops
>(and, etc. , I'm sure).
>
>What's the deal?
>
>Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
>accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
>specific kinda things.
I'm too old and creaky to be a he-man anymore, but...my take: I think women in
woodworking is seen now as a larger market segment than ever before, thus the
attempt to cater to it with special publications, web sites, on-line
newsletters, etc. When I worked for a retail mail order company, I tried to
implement some extra interest by including women woodworkers in a series of
interviews, but the interviews went over like a wet...oops. With my bosses,
that is. I ran a couple of interviews with men, interviewed Carol Reed and
wrote the article, interviewed one other woman and was ready to go with that,
when I was told that an article I'd done on Lonnie Bird didn't meet my boss's
standards. She had two big complaints: She had never heard of Lonnie Bird
(Internet marketing director of one of the bigger mail order woodworking tool
and supplies companies so you'd think she would occasionally listen during a
product meeting...if at no other time); I spent too much time with Mr. Bird and
his new school and not enough with the company, though I mentioned the 3 books
he'd written that the company carried (at least 2 mentions per book, IIRC).
Otherwise, there just doesn't seem to be much difference. The fact that a woman
is interested in woodworking is still something of a curiosity to some people,
so they see a market differentiation where there really is none.
In other words, a new source of bucks, or, as I was taught to call it by an
MBA: a cash cow that just joined the herd.
Charlie Self
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence
is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of
office." Ambrose Bierce
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
> I'm too old and creaky to be a he-man anymore, but...my take: I think women in
> woodworking is seen now as a larger market segment than ever before, thus the
> attempt to cater to it with special publications, web sites, on-line
> newsletters, etc. When I worked for a retail mail order company, I tried to
> implement some extra interest by including women woodworkers in a series of
> interviews, but the interviews went over like a wet...oops. With my bosses,
> that is. I ran a couple of interviews with men, interviewed Carol Reed and
> wrote the article, interviewed one other woman and was ready to go with that,
> when I was told that an article I'd done on Lonnie Bird didn't meet my boss's
> standards. She had two big complaints: She had never heard of Lonnie Bird
> (Internet marketing director of one of the bigger mail order woodworking tool
> and supplies companies so you'd think she would occasionally listen during a
> product meeting...if at no other time); I spent too much time with Mr. Bird and
> his new school and not enough with the company, though I mentioned the 3 books
> he'd written that the company carried (at least 2 mentions per book, IIRC).
>
> Otherwise, there just doesn't seem to be much difference. The fact that a woman
> is interested in woodworking is still something of a curiosity to some people,
> so they see a market differentiation where there really is none.
>
> In other words, a new source of bucks, or, as I was taught to call it by an
> MBA: a cash cow that just joined the herd.
Of course it's a new market. All the high-target males who were gonna
buy a $1,600 Unisaw have already done so. The average American
woodworker is white, male and over 65 (according to American
Demographics magazine). That means companies had better find a larger
target soon - their buyer pool is literally dying off. Boomer women,
on the other hand, are approaching their most financially powerful
years and just getting into woodworking in a serious way.
It took money lust to overcome prejudice. Unfortunately, they produced
a real piece o' turkey with this magazine. I found it grossly
insulting, not even as good as the usual crafts junk that's shoved at
women, who are universally assumed to be working on cute little
projects in tiny dribs between jags of baby tending, doing laundry and
cleaning house.
The surprise is that they even got the title past the committee that
thought up this dreadful rag. Exploitative in the extreme.
On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:06:17 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Yahbut, they average wooddorker has always been white, male
>and 65(ish) and they've been dying for years.
They've said the same about r/c model airplane builders and model
railroaders for just as long. Both hobbies are bigger than they've
ever been.
A non-scientific observation I've made in our local school is that few
of the pupils fit with the statistical norm. Many are 30 and 40
somethings, a good number aren't white, and some are not male. It's
rare to see someone over 55-60 in one of the classes.
Barry
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Yahbut, they average wooddorker has always been white, male
> and 65(ish) and they've been dying for years.
>
Ya see? **THIS** is zactly, g'damn why I'm for Stem Sell research!
Cloning 'dorkers - can't be any tougher than sheep, right?
> What the industry needs is to find a new and improved Norm.
> The old one just isn't cutting it/taking anyone to the next
> level.
I think Monsanto just bailed on "engineered" wheat. My wife's cousin's
son-in-law works the second shift security there. Think I'll call him now
and plant the bug in their ear.
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> What the industry needs is to find a new and improved Norm.
> The old one just isn't cutting it/taking anyone to the next
> level.
>
> UA100
>
David Marks needs a more widely available network. And Bruce Johnson needs
to find something else to do.
Patriarch
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snipperoo>
> I'm thinkin' we gotta get Norm away from Delta.
>
> How 'bout SCMI, Biesse, etc. start sponsoring the boy.
>
> That gaudy Timesaver might have been the start of a slippery slope to
> lead Normie into a whole new set of demographics.
>
> Mebbe Nahmie will come out at the next IWF.
Huh? How did I get involved here?
>
>
> (expiring minds want to know.)
>
>
>
> (watson - who is booking his room in Atlanta - at this very moment.)
I wish!
--
Nahmie
The first myth of management is that management exists.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.674 / Virus Database: 436 - Release Date: 5/2/2004
On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:06:17 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>edfan wrote:
>>Of course it's a new market. All the high-target males who were gonna
>>buy a $1,600 Unisaw have already done so. The average American
>>woodworker is white, male and over 65 (according to American
>>Demographics magazine). That means companies had better find a larger
>>target soon - their buyer pool is literally dying off.
>
>
>Yahbut, they average wooddorker has always been white, male
>and 65(ish) and they've been dying for years.
>
>What the industry needs is to find a new and improved Norm.
>The old one just isn't cutting it/taking anyone to the next
>level.
>
>UA100
I'm thinkin' we gotta get Norm away from Delta.
How 'bout SCMI, Biesse, etc. start sponsoring the boy.
That gaudy Timesaver might have been the start of a slippery slope to
lead Normie into a whole new set of demographics.
Mebbe Nahmie will come out at the next IWF.
(expiring minds want to know.)
(watson - who is booking his room in Atlanta - at this very moment.)
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Ditto David Marks. I got him for a while here in Minneapolis on HGTV.
Then they quit. I keep pestering them with the suggestion they add the
DIY network but it's spitting into the wind. Maybe if every woodworker
in Minneapolis started writing them they'd come around. Or, maybe we
could hassle HGTV to begin to carry him again.
Bob G.
patriarch < wrote:
> Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> <snip>
>
>>What the industry needs is to find a new and improved Norm.
>>The old one just isn't cutting it/taking anyone to the next
>>level.
>>
>>UA100
>>
>
>
> David Marks needs a more widely available network. And Bruce Johnson needs
> to find something else to do.
>
> Patriarch
"Indyrose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> By the way, I also hunt and fish, and I'm a manufacturing engineer...
> and I keep Doug very happy. :-)
And have impeccible taste in Neckwear, it seems! :)
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I'm probably gonna get hammered for this somehow, because somebody's
> going to misconstrue it, but here goes. Some women STILL, in 2004,
> feel intimidated to participate in certain activities if they are
> outnumbered by men.
I think they'd agree with you - albeit with some trouble on the word
"intimidation". I'd offer they'd say that women often enjoy each others
company in some situations.
And - the corollary is true to: men STILL, in 2004, feel intimidated to
participate in certain activities if they are outnumbered by women.
On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:04:20 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 May 2004 07:56:01 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that women do
>>different than men when it comes to woodworking?
>
>Well you probably don't have to scratch your balls as often when the
>shop gets all hot and humid. Then again, I don't have to dig clumps
>of sawdust out of my bra... :)
>
>Unless you freehand a router with your pinkies extended, I'm fairly
>certain we do woodworking pretty much the same. ;>
I've been having a hard time training my pinkie to stay tucked in when
using a circular saw or router, but letting it free when holding a
wine glass.
;-)
Renata
>
>Michael
>Who thinks the magazine in question is so condescending it's an
>embarrassment to the entire wwing community.
"Indyrose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think the real reason there are not more women in woodworking is
> because we don't have the TIME for such a hobby. I fit it in when I
> can, between the kid's activities, full time work, social/church
> activities, and other hobbies.
I don't buy that. It may be why YOU don't spend much time, but other women
have many other hobbies and find time for them. Women can choose to allot
their time just like we do so it comes down to priorities and desire.
Ed
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm probably gonna get hammered for this somehow, because somebody's
> going to misconstrue it, but here goes. Some women STILL, in 2004,
> feel intimidated to participate in certain activities if they are
> outnumbered by men.
Well I won't hammer you - if you read my post to Renata you'll see that
I've been doing a "woman's" job for 5 years now. I can tell you that
it's certainly intimidating going into a roomful of women for some
child-centered activity. Whether it was true or not, I felt as though
everything I did and said to my daughter was scrutinized by the "moms".
I can see how a woman might feel intimidated and conspicuous in a
roomful of men, doing a "man's" activity. I give great credit to the
couple of women in the woodturning chapters I belong.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
In article <[email protected]>,
Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
> Maybe once you he-men 'splain this to me, I can "correct" my style
> accordingly cause I sure didn't realize ww'g is one of those gender
> specific kinda things.
Renata, you are more unusual than you might believe. I think the
distance between women and woodworking has a lot to do with the female
mindset. She believes she can't do it more than he believes she can't.
Societally we've been led to believe we have innate roles and interests.
As a stay-at-home dad for 5 years, I've been bucking tradition - and
have read many articles on men as primary caregivers - and have felt
uncomfortable in public at times. When folks step outside their
traditional roles, it certainly doesn't hurt to have others let you know
it's an OK direction you've taken. As time passed, I become less and
less concerned about my abilities and other's perceptions about
stay-at-home dading; similarly, I'd guess that the women who continue
with woodworking will gravitate to mainstream publications and worry
less about being out of their "female" role.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>