Very cool, but expensive...

On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such things. My
> step-father did a lot of work for high end customers. Amazing what they
> want and how much they will pay for it.

The name of the game.
Not worth the hassle working for low end customers.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"krw" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:13:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:

>>On 10/27/2015 8:08 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>> "Just Wondering" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>> On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>>
>>>> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
>>>> doesn't know about your joinery method?
>>
>>> From what I see on the TV renovation shows that is what large hammers
>>> are for...
>>
>>No kidding. I see sledge hammers being used to remove old kitchen
>>cabinets. I have renovated a few kitchens and felt it was much easier
>>to remove 2~4 attachment screws, per cabinet, and carry the cabinet out
>>whole. They still have to remove the attachment screws when destroying
>>the cabinets.

>I've always found it easier to remove sheetrock in large sections,
>rather than pounding it to smithereens, too.

Yeah... they create work! But I guess smashing stuff makes for better TV
and makes some people feel better. ;~)

On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:


>> Needing a special tool makes it non-knock down in many cases. Do you
>> give your kids a drill when they are off to college?
>
> Well if you need it to be knock down in those cases obviously this is
> not the fastener to use. It seems inconcievable to you that there might
> be a use for knock-down furniture other than sending a kid off to
> college.

I used one example but that does not mean I don't know of others.
Temporary store displays, trade show booth and two more of many examples
that I can conceive.


>
>>>> As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
>>>> use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.
>>>
>>> You'd use a screwed-together butt joint on a bannister in a "high end
>>> house"?!?!?!?!?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I'm suggesting a hidden fastener. If it has the strength needed it
>> would look good. Never used one so I can't say for sure.
>
> Why would a bannister need to be removable?
>

Were did I say removable? Oh, I didn't, but you like to argue for the
sake of arguing so you add in your own ideas. I only said hidden
fastener. OK, you can finish with a snarky comment.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 3:01:47 PM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "DerbyDad03" wrote in message=20
> news:[email protected]...
>=20
> >Having moved a few kids in and out
> >of college dorms and apartments, I'd have gladly paid a premium for easy
> >to assemble knock-down furniture.
>=20
> Ikea REGISS=D6R ??
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DPOR4mwOZjsY

As far as I know, the Ikea line came out in late 2014. By that point I had=
=20
already put together more of that Wally World furniture than I care to=20
mention. It always turned out that we didn't know what they needed until th=
e=20
weekend they were moving in. Then, while the girls were out buying shower=
=20
curtains and laundry detergent, Dad was pounding plastic dowels into=20
particle board.

One time I was halfway through putting together a Wally World dresser in a=
=20
cramped hotel room when my daughter called. "Hey Dad, I just ran into the=
=20
landlord. She said they will dropping off a dresser tomorrow so you don't=
=20
have to put that one together." If you think building those things is a=20
PITA, try taking one apart and putting it back in the box. I was ready to=
=20
eat the $60 and throw it in the dumpster.

Jared Joyce was pushing his 5 Minute Furniture idea back in 2012, maybe=20
even earlier. Had it been available back then I would have at least looked=
=20
at the price and weighed the pros and cons.

On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 7:49:27 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 10/31/2015 3:27 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
> >>
> >> On 10/30/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
> >>> hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
> >>> is a mystery.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'd not use it for knock down furniture.In that case, no tool use would
> >> be a plus.
> >
> > But "no tool use" means exposed fasteners.
>
> Needing a special tool makes it non-knock down in many cases. Do you
> give your kids a drill when they are off to college?
>

Actually, yes.

I built a knockdown platform bed for my daughter. She wanted a full size bed,
tall enough to fit storage bins underneath. The frame knocks down to 5 pieces
which easily fit in the back of her car. The platform was cut in half.

I spent less than $20 for a HF cordless drill and gave her one of my quick
clamps. Besides the initial assembly when she first took it back to school,
she's moved the bed twice since I built it.

http://s440.photobucket.com/user/DerbyDad03/library/Platform%20Bed?sort=2&page=1

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 10:24:10 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> > Jim <[email protected]> wrote in news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
> > @googlegroups.com:
> >
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
> >
> > I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
> > It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
> > of solutions looking for a problem.
> >
> > John
> >
>
> They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
> conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
> the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
> fasteners are located.

I like this system better. Five Minute Furniture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shJhMd7t8Zc

The inventor turned down the Shark Tank deal. He wanted $250K for a 25%
equity stake in his company. They offered him $250K for the patent rights
but wanted *nothing* to do with him. They flat out didn't trust him.

I think he got a deal from someone else but I don't see any indication
that the furniture is for sale anywhere. Having moved a few kids in and out
of college dorms and apartments, I'd have gladly paid a premium for easy
to assemble knock-down furniture.

Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw364jomMrM

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:13:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 10/27/2015 8:08 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Just Wondering" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>>
>>> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
>>> doesn't know about your joinery method?
>>
>> From what I see on the TV renovation shows that is what large hammers
>> are for...
>>
>No kidding. I see sledge hammers being used to remove old kitchen
>cabinets. I have renovated a few kitchens and felt it was much easier
>to remove 2~4 attachment screws, per cabinet, and carry the cabinet out
>whole. They still have to remove the attachment screws when destroying
>the cabinets.


I've always found it easier to remove sheetrock in large sections,
rather than pounding it to smithereens, too.

On 10/27/2015 10:12 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 10:24 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Jim <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
>>> @googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>
>>> I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
>>> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
>>> of solutions looking for a problem.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>
>> They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
>> conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
>> the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
>> fasteners are located.
>
> I saw Tom Silva of This Old House use the system to fasten pieces of a
> stairway banister together.


Yeah I saw that on TOH several years ago. One has to wonder how tight
the connection can be, the force of a magnet is about all the force that
there is to turn the screw.

On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...

[snip]

>>
>> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
>> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
>> but I don't see that as a big selling point.
>
> Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
> to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
> thing?


I don't wish to prolong the agony but...

Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.

A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
which are also "outside the box."

On 11/2/2015 6:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
>>> banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
>>> smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
>>> would be objectionable.
>>
>> OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
>> you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
>> "money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
>> hidden, dissassemblable fastners.
>>
>> John
>
> Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
> disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
> refinishing?
>

Jeez, John

Is it that hard for you to concede that there are certain tools, certain
materials, certain procedures, etc. that exist solely to fill a unique
or oddball use or nitch?

Following this thread I don't see where anyone has suggested universal
use of the fastening system nor even wide use of it. Why not give it a
rest? If you can't run for King of the World and ban the damn fastener
and be done with it. Either that or grab a cup of STFU.

"Contrarian"<[email protected]> wrote in news:n45dg9$lfr$7
@odin.sdf-eu.org:

> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
>>> you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
>>> "money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
>>> hidden, dissassemblable fastners.
>
>> Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
>> disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
>> refinishing?
>
>
> doesn't sound like a great idea.
>

If you're really up on things, you'll lay the floor over steel beams
spaced every 4' or so. A few of those rare earth magnets (do not carry
one in each pocket!) and not only can the walls be removed for
refinishing but they can be rearranged as desired.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:13:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 10/27/2015 8:08 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Just Wondering" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>>
>>> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
>>> doesn't know about your joinery method?
>>
>> From what I see on the TV renovation shows that is what large hammers
>> are for...
>>
>No kidding. I see sledge hammers being used to remove old kitchen
>cabinets. I have renovated a few kitchens and felt it was much easier
>to remove 2~4 attachment screws, per cabinet, and carry the cabinet out
>whole. They still have to remove the attachment screws when destroying
>the cabinets.

But it is TV you need images that move.

On 10/31/2015 3:27 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> On 10/30/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
>>> hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
>>> is a mystery.
>>>
>>
>> I'd not use it for knock down furniture.In that case, no tool use would
>> be a plus.
>
> But "no tool use" means exposed fasteners.

Needing a special tool makes it non-knock down in many cases. Do you
give your kids a drill when they are off to college?

>
>> As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
>> use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.
>
> You'd use a screwed-together butt joint on a bannister in a "high end
> house"?!?!?!?!?!
>
>
>
I'm suggesting a hidden fastener. If it has the strength needed it
would look good. Never used one so I can't say for sure.

On 10/27/2015 5:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:

>
> Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
> it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
> show off, I guess).
>

Good logic. They were made without power tools too so there is no good
reason to use them either.

On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:02:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> >>> says...
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
> >>>> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
> >>>> but I don't see that as a big selling point.
> >>>
> >>> Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
> >>> to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
> >>> thing?
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't wish to prolong the agony but...
> >>
> >> Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
> >> joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
> >> admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.
> >>
> >> A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
> >> which are also "outside the box."
> >
> > You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
> > preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
> > "a high-end house"?
> >
>
> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
> out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
> stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
> objectionable.

...and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
owners have high end noses? ;-)

On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>
What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
doesn't know about your joinery method?

On 11/2/2015 10:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>>
>> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
>> out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
>> stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
>> objectionable.
>
> ...and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
> owners have high end noses? ;-)
>

High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such things. My
step-father did a lot of work for high end customers. Amazing what they
want and how much they will pay for it.

"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> Ikea REGISSÖR ??
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POR4mwOZjsY
>
>Or Not

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjE4q2EyzoQ

Seems staged... but then again, I run into people all the time who don't
grasp the simplest mechanical things!

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On 10/28/2015 10:47 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> >> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:7Judnf6ypZIVlK3LnZ2dnUU7-N-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >>> On 10/27/2015 5:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
> >>>> it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
> >>>> show off, I guess).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Good logic. They were made without power tools too so there is no
> >>> good reason to use them either.
> >>
> >> Well, I can think of good reasons to use power tools (less
> >> sweating onto the workpiece, for example). I'm not seeing
> >> a good reason why this expensive and complicated fastner is
> >> better than traditional ways of fastening the parts of a
> >> bannister.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >
> > You may be right but to dismiss it without first hand knowledge is a
> > bit harsh. New does not mean better but I can see where a hidden
> > fastener may be a nice touch in some places. I'll keep an open mind
> > until I see it.
>
> Well, I don't know I'm dismissing it. "Why" is an honest question.
> I don't see a reason to use it, but I'm open to being convinced
> there is one for that purpose (altho, in fairness to me, no-one
> has yet suggested one).
>
> John

It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
is a mystery.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 10/30/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> >
> > It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
> > hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
> > is a mystery.
> >
>
> I'd not use it for knock down furniture.In that case, no tool use would
> be a plus.

But "no tool use" means exposed fasteners.

> As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
> use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.

You'd use a screwed-together butt joint on a bannister in a "high end
house"?!?!?!?!?!

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 10/31/2015 3:27 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
> >>
> >> On 10/30/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
> >>> hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
> >>> is a mystery.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'd not use it for knock down furniture.In that case, no tool use would
> >> be a plus.
> >
> > But "no tool use" means exposed fasteners.
>
> Needing a special tool makes it non-knock down in many cases. Do you
> give your kids a drill when they are off to college?

Well if you need it to be knock down in those cases obviously this is
not the fastener to use. It seems inconcievable to you that there might
be a use for knock-down furniture other than sending a kid off to
college.

> >> As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
> >> use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.
> >
> > You'd use a screwed-together butt joint on a bannister in a "high end
> > house"?!?!?!?!?!
> >
> >
> >
> I'm suggesting a hidden fastener. If it has the strength needed it
> would look good. Never used one so I can't say for sure.

Why would a bannister need to be removable?

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 11/1/2015 10:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> > Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
> > [email protected]:
> >
> >> On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> >
> >>> Why would a bannister need to be removable?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Were did I say removable?
> >
> > I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
> > video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
> > these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
> > suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
> > is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
> > you would want to remove a bannister?
> >
> > And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
> > why use those fastners in the first place?
> >
> > John
> >
>
> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
> but I don't see that as a big selling point.

Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
thing?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
>
> [snip]
>
> >>
> >> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
> >> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
> >> but I don't see that as a big selling point.
> >
> > Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
> > to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
> > thing?
>
>
> I don't wish to prolong the agony but...
>
> Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
> joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
> admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.
>
> A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
> which are also "outside the box."

You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
"a high-end house"?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
> > banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
> > smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
> > would be objectionable.
>
> OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
> you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
> "money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
> hidden, dissassemblable fastners.
>
> John

Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
refinishing?

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 11/2/2015 6:29 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >>> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
> >>> banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
> >>> smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
> >>> would be objectionable.
> >>
> >> OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
> >> you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
> >> "money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
> >> hidden, dissassemblable fastners.
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
> > disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
> > refinishing?
> >
>
> Jeez, John
>
> Is it that hard for you to concede that there are certain tools, certain
> materials, certain procedures, etc. that exist solely to fill a unique
> or oddball use or nitch?

I'm not the one who suggested that such a thing would be used for
"bannisters in high end houses" so that they could be removed for the
purpose of being refinished without annoying the occupants of said house
with the odors associated with refinishing.

If they need to be removed from the house in order to avoid such
annoyance, then why doesn't everything else that is likely to need to be
refinished also need to be removed from the house for refinishing?

> Following this thread I don't see where anyone has suggested universal
> use of the fastening system nor even wide use of it. Why not give it a
> rest? If you can't run for King of the World and ban the damn fastener
> and be done with it. Either that or grab a cup of STFU.

You've totally missed the point.

"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>
>What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
>doesn't know about your joinery method?

From what I see on the TV renovation shows that is what large hammers are
for...

On 10/30/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

>
> It looks like the benefit is that one can make knock-down furniture with
> hidden fasteners. Why you would want to do this with a bannister though
> is a mystery.
>

I'd not use it for knock down furniture.In that case, no tool use would
be a plus. As for the bannister, if I was building a high end house I'd
use it. Details like that make a high end house just that.

On 11/1/2015 10:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
> [email protected]:
>
>> On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> Why would a bannister need to be removable?
>>>
>>
>> Were did I say removable?
>
> I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
> video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
> these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
> suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
> is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
> you would want to remove a bannister?
>
> And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
> why use those fastners in the first place?
>
> John
>

The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
but I don't see that as a big selling point.

On 11/3/2015 10:08 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/3/15 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such
>>> things. My step-father did a lot of work for high end customers.
>>> Amazing what they want and how much they will pay for it.
>>
>> The name of the game. Not worth the hassle working for low end
>> customers.
>>
>
> Yep! As was brought up in another part of the interweps where you and
> I both converse, I'm finding that I don't ever want to be the lowest
> bidder, either.
>
> Too many clients who hire the lowest bidder for price alone are never
> satisfied and want to leave the game feeling like they stuck it to you.
> Plus, when you bid a job too low it's way too tempting cut corners or
> quality to try to get out with more profit.
>
>
The problem with the low bid is that the client still expects the high
bid results.

Jim <[email protected]> wrote in news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
@googlegroups.com:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8

I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
of solutions looking for a problem.

John

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 10/27/2015 10:12 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

>> I saw Tom Silva of This Old House use the system to fasten pieces of a
>> stairway banister together.

Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
show off, I guess).

> Yeah I saw that on TOH several years ago. One has to wonder how tight
> the connection can be, the force of a magnet is about all the force that
> there is to turn the screw.

I think the actual problem you'd have is the two metal pieces
have to be absolutely perpendicular to the surface to get a
tight joint. Which basically means you have to drill all the
holes on the drill press.

Dowels tend to do that too, but at least you have a little give
with them to accomodate minor errors. That thing is effectively
a steel dowel when it's joined, and there's no give.

John

Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The company's site claims:
>
> "Powerful screwed connections with 250 kg clamping force per connector
> via the M5 stainless steel screw"

I am a little sceptical of that(*), but also bear in mind
that that's just a tad over 500lbs, which isn't much. You
can get 1000lbs clamping force with a regular Jorgensen bar
clamp, and several tons with a 3/4 pipe clamp.

(* that's about 1/3 the shear strength of the screw, if I'm
not mistaken, so it's in the realm of what a human with a
screwdriver could accomplish.)

John

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:7Judnf6ypZIVlK3LnZ2dnUU7-N-
[email protected]:

> On 10/27/2015 5:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
>> it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
>> show off, I guess).
>>
>
> Good logic. They were made without power tools too so there is no good
> reason to use them either.

Well, I can think of good reasons to use power tools (less
sweating onto the workpiece, for example). I'm not seeing
a good reason why this expensive and complicated fastner is
better than traditional ways of fastening the parts of a
bannister.

John

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 10/28/2015 10:47 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:7Judnf6ypZIVlK3LnZ2dnUU7-N-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> On 10/27/2015 5:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
>>>> it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
>>>> show off, I guess).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good logic. They were made without power tools too so there is no
>>> good reason to use them either.
>>
>> Well, I can think of good reasons to use power tools (less
>> sweating onto the workpiece, for example). I'm not seeing
>> a good reason why this expensive and complicated fastner is
>> better than traditional ways of fastening the parts of a
>> bannister.
>>
>> John
>>
>
> You may be right but to dismiss it without first hand knowledge is a
> bit harsh. New does not mean better but I can see where a hidden
> fastener may be a nice touch in some places. I'll keep an open mind
> until I see it.

Well, I don't know I'm dismissing it. "Why" is an honest question.
I don't see a reason to use it, but I'm open to being convinced
there is one for that purpose (altho, in fairness to me, no-one
has yet suggested one).

John

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]:

> On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

>> Why would a bannister need to be removable?
>>
>
> Were did I say removable?

I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
you would want to remove a bannister?

And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
why use those fastners in the first place?

John

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the
> banister out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the
> smell of the stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever
> would be objectionable.

OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
"money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

John

On 11/2/2015 9:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:02:38 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
>>>>>> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
>>>>>> but I don't see that as a big selling point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
>>>>> to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
>>>>> thing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't wish to prolong the agony but...
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
>>>> joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
>>>> admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.
>>>>
>>>> A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
>>>> which are also "outside the box."
>>>
>>> You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
>>> preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
>>> "a high-end house"?
>>>
>>
>> Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
>> out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
>> stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
>> objectionable.
>
> ...and those odors aren't objectionable in other homes? Do high end home
> owners have high end noses? ;-)
>
Well as a matter of fact different strokes for different folks. I have
had customers where money is no object and they will pay anything to
avoid any disruption in tranquility. If you are going to do $200K+ reno
in a million dollar+ home they just might not want to smell the paint
dry. This explains the low emission paints available for a premium
these days.

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 5:51:29 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 2:02 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> > "DerbyDad03" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> Having moved a few kids in and out
> >> of college dorms and apartments, I'd have gladly paid a premium for ea=
sy
> >> to assemble knock-down furniture.
> >
> > Ikea REGISS=D6R ??
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DPOR4mwOZjsY
> >
> Or Not
>=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXjE4q2EyzoQ

Still, 17 minutes is a lot quicker than it takes to put together one of tho=
se Wally World units. I'd like to try the Ikea system since I am familiar w=
ith the plastic dowel/cam and post system that Sauder and the other manufac=
turers use.

On 10/28/2015 10:47 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:7Judnf6ypZIVlK3LnZ2dnUU7-N-
> [email protected]:
>
>> On 10/27/2015 5:36 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why? Banisters have been made for centuries without that system,
>>> it seems hard to think of a good reason to use it (other than to
>>> show off, I guess).
>>>
>>
>> Good logic. They were made without power tools too so there is no good
>> reason to use them either.
>
> Well, I can think of good reasons to use power tools (less
> sweating onto the workpiece, for example). I'm not seeing
> a good reason why this expensive and complicated fastner is
> better than traditional ways of fastening the parts of a
> bannister.
>
> John
>

You may be right but to dismiss it without first hand knowledge is a bit
harsh. New does not mean better but I can see where a hidden fastener
may be a nice touch in some places. I'll keep an open mind until I see it.

On 10/27/2015 8:08 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Just Wondering" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>
>> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
>> doesn't know about your joinery method?
>
> From what I see on the TV renovation shows that is what large hammers
> are for...
>
No kidding. I see sledge hammers being used to remove old kitchen
cabinets. I have renovated a few kitchens and felt it was much easier
to remove 2~4 attachment screws, per cabinet, and carry the cabinet out
whole. They still have to remove the attachment screws when destroying
the cabinets.

On 10/26/15 6:32 PM, Jim wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>
> -Jim
>

I've seen that a couple times before.
Looks impressive, but every time I watch the videos it doesn't seem to
close the gaps very tightly.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/27/2015 10:24 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Jim <[email protected]> wrote in news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
>> @googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>
>> I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
>> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
>> of solutions looking for a problem.
>>
>> John
>>
>
> They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
> conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
> the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
> fasteners are located.

I saw Tom Silva of This Old House use the system to fasten pieces of a
stairway banister together.

On 10/27/2015 4:02 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 10/26/2015 5:32 PM, Jim wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>
> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
> doesn't know about your joinery method?
>
Knowing my typical joinery method (glue) wouldn't help them very much.

On 10/27/2015 1:43 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 10:12 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 10/27/2015 10:24 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>> Jim <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
>>>> @googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>>
>>>> I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
>>>> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
>>>> of solutions looking for a problem.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>
>>> They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
>>> conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
>>> the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
>>> fasteners are located.
>>
>> I saw Tom Silva of This Old House use the system to fasten pieces of a
>> stairway banister together.
>
>
> Yeah I saw that on TOH several years ago. One has to wonder how tight
> the connection can be, the force of a magnet is about all the force that
> there is to turn the screw.

It would also depend on the pitch of the screw threads. I have wondered
about the "tightness" too. Maybe there are tests?

On 10/27/2015 2:11 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 10/27/2015 1:43 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 10/27/2015 10:12 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2015 10:24 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>>> Jim <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
>>>>> @googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>>>>>
>>>>> I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
>>>>> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
>>>>> of solutions looking for a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
>>>> conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
>>>> the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
>>>> fasteners are located.
>>>
>>> I saw Tom Silva of This Old House use the system to fasten pieces of a
>>> stairway banister together.
>>
>>
>> Yeah I saw that on TOH several years ago. One has to wonder how tight
>> the connection can be, the force of a magnet is about all the force that
>> there is to turn the screw.
>
> It would also depend on the pitch of the screw threads. I have wondered
> about the "tightness" too. Maybe there are tests?

The company's site claims:

"Powerful screwed connections with 250 kg clamping force per connector
via the M5 stainless steel screw"

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:02:44 -0600
Just Wondering <[email protected]> wrote:

> What if someone down the line needs to disassemble your whatever but
> doesn't know about your joinery method?

depends on the someone
i can imagine a couple of scenarios

i think it is glued together and it is too heavy to carry sorry i cannot help

i think it is glued together i can make the pieces so they will fit
through the door or smaller and then we can glue it back together

it is too big to move i think we leave it here and i never liked it
anyway since it has gotten to be wobbly over the years and we
could never figure out how to tighten it up

we should put it on craigslist and tell them to bring strong people
and a good dolly


no one will ever think hey it is using the invis system and absolutely
no one will have that magnetic tool

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:12:57 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
> of solutions looking for a problem.

it is the keep it complicated stupid or KICS adage

they got their KICS making them

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:22:22 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

i like his design

> The inventor turned down the Shark Tank deal. He wanted $250K for a
> 25% equity stake in his company. They offered him $250K for the
> patent rights but wanted *nothing* to do with him. They flat out
> didn't trust him.

it is funny and ironic that those people do not trust him
i like his answer to the stupid question he was asked

and mark cuban wears make-up or maybe that is for halloween
i really do not trust those people

that guy is lucky to have got away

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:02:37 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ikea REGISSÖR ??

whenever i see ikea furniture i am amazed at how well the meet the
demand for that market

the honeycombed panels are a great idea

but i am also glad because there are discerning buyers that will not buy
ikea furniture so that leaves a market for woodworkers/artisans

On 11/3/15 7:32 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/2/2015 6:38 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> High end owners are often willing to pay a lot to avoid such
>> things. My step-father did a lot of work for high end customers.
>> Amazing what they want and how much they will pay for it.
>
> The name of the game. Not worth the hassle working for low end
> customers.
>

Yep! As was brought up in another part of the interweps where you and
I both converse, I'm finding that I don't ever want to be the lowest
bidder, either.

Too many clients who hire the lowest bidder for price alone are never
satisfied and want to leave the game feeling like they stuck it to you.
Plus, when you bid a job too low it's way too tempting cut corners or
quality to try to get out with more profit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:

>> OK, there's a valid point. Doesn't seem like something
>> you'd do terribly often, but I guess when you're at the
>> "money's no object" level, you might want a bannister with
>> hidden, dissassemblable fastners.

> Are the ceilings, walls, and floors also assembled with hidden,
> disassemblable fasteners so they can be taken outside when they need
> refinishing?


doesn't sound like a great idea.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>Having moved a few kids in and out
>of college dorms and apartments, I'd have gladly paid a premium for easy
>to assemble knock-down furniture.

Ikea REGISSÖR ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POR4mwOZjsY

On 10/27/2015 5:15 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> Ikea REGISSÖR ??
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POR4mwOZjsY
>>
>> Or Not
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjE4q2EyzoQ
>
> Seems staged... but then again, I run into people all the time who don't
> grasp the simplest mechanical things!


Yeah it looked like one of those infomertials that uses complete idiots.
The kicker however is that It appears that if you fit something wrong
there is no going back.

On 10/27/2015 2:02 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "DerbyDad03" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Having moved a few kids in and out
>> of college dorms and apartments, I'd have gladly paid a premium for easy
>> to assemble knock-down furniture.
>
> Ikea REGISSÖR ??
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POR4mwOZjsY
>
Or Not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjE4q2EyzoQ

On 11/1/2015 7:46 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 11/1/2015 6:12 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>> says...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>
>>>> The main advantage I see is that the fasteners are hidden. Needing to
>>>> remove a bannister is rare, but could be handy at times moving furniture
>>>> but I don't see that as a big selling point.
>>>
>>> Dowels are hidden too, and a lot cheaper, so what do these things bring
>>> to the table that dowels don't, if you're not planning on removing the
>>> thing?
>>
>>
>> I don't wish to prolong the agony but...
>>
>> Have you ever attempted to remove/separate a PROPERLY glued and doweled
>> joint? If you have, then you might understand where this device -
>> admittedly of limited, specialized application might be worth a shot.
>>
>> A product like this, outside the box, is best suited for applications
>> which are also "outside the box."
>
> You're missing the point. Why would one want to use this fastener in
> preference to dowels or (perish the thought) joinery in a bannister in
> "a high-end house"?
>

Simply for ease to remove for the refreshing the finish of the banister
out side of the house. Certainly in a high end home the smell of the
stripping products, paint, varnish, stain, what ever would be
objectionable.

On 11/1/2015 9:10 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:1s2dnbAgf8L4nKvLnZ2dnUU7-
> [email protected]:
>
>> On 10/31/2015 7:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> Why would a bannister need to be removable?
>>>
>>
>> Were did I say removable?
>
> I think J. Clarke is stuck on the same point I am here. The
> video referenced way up thread shows a bannister made with
> these fancy fastners. And the question is why? It's been
> suggested (maybe not by you) that the advantage of these things
> is that they're removable. So that raises the question, why
> you would want to remove a bannister?
>
> And if you don't want to remove the bannister, we're back to
> why use those fastners in the first place?
>
> John
>

Why would you want to remove a bannister? IIRC TOH used the tool and
fastener to attach a banister. So, they were not building a new house
IIRC and they removed the previous banister to replace with the new one.

There could be multiple reasons to remove a banister but IMHO who ever
does it next time will not have a clue if it has this type fastener or
the tool to loosen it.

On 10/27/2015 9:12 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Jim <[email protected]> wrote in news:1160987b-d414-4919-aa3b-01cbcafb9484
> @googlegroups.com:
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaN-Emvizq8
>
> I totally fail to see any practical application for it.
> It's a neat gimmick, but definately falls into the category
> of solutions looking for a problem.
>
> John
>

They would be handy for upper end displays like those used at
conventions that are assembled and disassembled often . But obviously
the person doing the dismantling would have to know where all of the
fasteners are located.