What do you guys think of the new Kreg pocket hole screws with the universa=
l head? I ordered 1,000 of them a month or so ago and when I opened the bo=
x two things struck me:
- They were silver (I had heard that was coming).
- My first thought was they had Phillips heads - Oh Oh!
Then I took a close look, saw the square drive was incorporated into the Ph=
illips cross. I Googled a bit and saw that was the new design and decided =
it would be fine.
Now I am back to my first though - Oh Oh. I have probably driven more than=
1,800 Kreg screws in the last 4-5 years and have never stripped a head or =
snapped a screw. In the past couple of weeks I have stripped the heads on =
three of the new screws and snapped the first one ever. With some of these=
screws the square screwdriver head just doesn't seem to seat into the head=
well.
Am I having bad luck or are you guys having problems too?
RonB
On 2/7/2013 12:28 PM, RonB wrote:
> On Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:11:05 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> Yep, like today's tits ... they don't have to be real, or work, just
>>
>> look good.
>>
>
> Well....... There you go. That's the reason!
>
I see your problem here Ron, you are screwing the screws in wrong. ;~)
According to Kreg, all Kreg screws feature incredibly durable case
hardened steel for the strongest possible joint, and that your screw
will strip itself out far before the head ever breaks off.
It must be you!. Not really but I find it ironic that Kreg would make
that statement.
On Thursday, February 7, 2013 12:37:14 PM UTC-6, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Feb 6, 4:29=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > What do you guys think of the new Kreg pocket hole screws with the univ=
ersal head? =A0I ordered 1,000 of them a month or so ago and when I opened =
the box two things struck me:
>=20
> >
>=20
> > - They were silver (I had heard that was coming).
>=20
> > - My first thought was they had Phillips heads - Oh Oh!
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Then I took a close look, saw the square drive was incorporated into th=
e Phillips cross. =A0I Googled a bit and saw that was the new design and de=
cided it would be fine.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Now I am back to my first though - Oh Oh. =A0I have probably driven mor=
e than 1,800 Kreg screws in the last 4-5 years and have never stripped a he=
ad or snapped a screw. =A0In the past couple of weeks I have stripped the h=
eads on three of the new screws and snapped the first one ever. =A0With som=
e of these screws the square screwdriver head just doesn't seem to seat int=
o the head well.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Am I having bad luck or are you guys having problems too?
>=20
> >
>=20
> > RonB
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Were the old ones cheap crap Chinese metallurgy?
I don't know about origin but, as I said, I never snapped one until they "i=
mproved" them.
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 6:03 pm, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> SPAX makes a superior Lag Screw. AND pricey..
>
> I didn't have any problem with the price. I went down to HD at Karl's
> suggestions and who knew... they had them on the rack. They were
> something like 75 cents more a pound than my favorites.
I was talking about the SPAX hex head lad screws, IIRC 5/16" x 5". I hung
my limber rack with these. Over $1 each. Because I was going through the
standard, a 2x4, and sheet rock to reach the stud I did not want to risk
twisting twisting the head off.
>
> On Feb 7, 5:36 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've not had single snapped head since I started using them a few years
>> back. We do back a few out to when shimming during installation, to
>> level and true a run, and have had no problems with that either.
>
> I put up my cabinets with #10 X 3 or 3 1/2 screws and cannot imagine
> driving a screw that big without a pilot hole. My drill would do it,
> but I also use the same size when screwing the stiles together after
> placement. I would think it the self drill threads would clog and you
> would wind up with a split stile if you didn't drill first.
>
> Are you using the same screws for the stiles, too? Do you pre-drill
> any of the holes when using Spax on cabinets?
We per drill the stiles for the face frames, however on the last kitchen
job we had Euro style cabinets with no face frames. To fasten the cabinets
together we used the FastCap washer head screws. Prior to that we used lag
screws and washers to hang the cabinets.
>
> Inquiring minds....
>
> Robert
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/7/13 4:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Just as important to me, they don't grip so hard I can't get them
>> out. The Spax screws are made for a one time install with no further
>> movement. About a month after I do an cab install, I go back to the
>> client's house to adjust doors and cabinets for the last time and to
>> give them a handful of cards. If there has been some warpage or
>> movement, I need a screw with a strong head I can back out of its
>> countersunk hole a turn or so and then adjust the cabinet, then run
>> the screw back up.
>>
>> The heads on the Spax didn't look that substantial, and the aggressive
>> threading made me think they might not come back out. The multihead
>> made me think that even more. I have paid the price for snapping off
>> heads to many times to take a chance.
>>
>>>> If I had a choice<<, I wouldn't buy the combo head screws.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>
> FWIW, I use plenty of Spax screws and they have held up great.
> I love the "aggressive" threads on them and I think that's what makes them perform so well.
>
SPAX makes a superior Lag Screw. AND pricey..
On Thursday, February 7, 2013 12:57:08 AM UTC-6, Gramp's shop wrote:
> Had a similar experience. My square drive bits don't seem to seat as well=
in the new screws. Actually, I like McFeeley's a lot better. As long as we=
're talking pocket holes, why is coarse thread recommended for softwood and=
fine thread for hardwood?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Larry
When I first started using the pocket screws I tried testing with coarse th=
reads in Oak. I thought maybe the more aggressive thread pattern might be =
stronger. I probably split at least 1/2 of the test pieces. On the other=
hand the more aggressive thread probably holds well in softer material lik=
e pine. I have never had a problem there.
RonB
On 2/7/2013 4:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I don't know about origin but, as I said, I never snapped one until they "improved" them.
>
> I don't know how removing material from the screw head can be
> considered an improvement. I want as much meat there as I can get. I
> don't want a "universal head" or some kind of marketer's dream.
>
> I couldn't find my normal screws to hang cabinets about a month ago,
> and I called up Karl to see what he and his guys were using. One
> thing in the table was Spax. I didn't know they sold them at HD, but
> they do have limited sizes. I hang cabinets with 3 1/2" screws and 2
> 1/2" screws.
>
> I studied the screws. The had the universal drive head that was
> Phillips or square. They had self drilling tips, which would be good
> for soft woods, dangerously stupid for hard woods as they say they
> need no pilot hole. I am sure they work well or Karl would not have
> mentioned them, and equally sure they have their place.
>
> But I passed, and found my screws at Fastenal. They aren't anything
> special, but I have been using them for years and they come with their
> own drive bit. They don't strip, the proprietary bit fits the head of
> the screw perfectly.
>
> Just as important to me, they don't grip so hard I can't get them
> out. The Spax screws are made for a one time install with no further
> movement. About a month after I do an cab install, I go back to the
> client's house to adjust doors and cabinets for the last time and to
> give them a handful of cards. If there has been some warpage or
> movement, I need a screw with a strong head I can back out of its
> countersunk hole a turn or so and then adjust the cabinet, then run
> the screw back up.
>
> The heads on the Spax didn't look that substantial, and the aggressive
> threading made me think they might not come back out. The multihead
> made me think that even more. I have paid the price for snapping off
> heads to many times to take a chance.
>
>>> If I had a choice<<, I wouldn't buy the combo head screws.
For what I use them for, and as we discussed, Spax's BIG plus is _shear
strength_, which is ideal for hanging cabinets.
I've not had single snapped head since I started using them a few years
back. We do back a few out to when shimming during installation, to
level and true a run, and have had no problems with that either.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote:
I put up my cabinets with #10 X 3 or 3 1/2 screws and cannot imagine
driving a screw that big without a pilot hole.
----------------------------------------------
That makes two of us.
Built a set of stair steps to get into the boat using #10 x 3-1/2"
coarse thread screws to tie the treads in place.
It was all Doug Fir.
No way those screws would bottom out without pilot holes.
Lew
RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> What do you guys think of the new Kreg pocket hole screws with the
> universal head? I ordered 1,000 of them a month or so ago and when I
> opened the box two things struck me:
>
> - They were silver (I had heard that was coming).
> - My first thought was they had Phillips heads - Oh Oh!
>
> Then I took a close look, saw the square drive was incorporated into the
> Phillips cross. I Googled a bit and saw that was the new design and
> decided it would be fine.
>
> Now I am back to my first though - Oh Oh. I have probably driven more
> than 1,800 Kreg screws in the last 4-5 years and have never stripped a
> head or snapped a screw. In the past couple of weeks I have stripped the
> heads on three of the new screws and snapped the first one ever. With
> some of these screws the square screwdriver head just doesn't seem to
> seat into the head well.
>
> Am I having bad luck or are you guys having problems too?
>
>
> RonB
I have been using the screws for a couple of years now. Not impressed with
the silver look, I don't want to draw attention to the screw. I have not
noticed a quality problem or a bit fit problem. The silver color is a
plating that will interfere with proper bit fit it the plating is too
thick. I would prefer Kreg go back to the old color.
On Feb 7, 1:57=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't know about origin but, as I said, I never snapped one until they =
"improved" them.
I don't know how removing material from the screw head can be
considered an improvement. I want as much meat there as I can get. I
don't want a "universal head" or some kind of marketer's dream.
I couldn't find my normal screws to hang cabinets about a month ago,
and I called up Karl to see what he and his guys were using. One
thing in the table was Spax. I didn't know they sold them at HD, but
they do have limited sizes. I hang cabinets with 3 1/2" screws and 2
1/2" screws.
I studied the screws. The had the universal drive head that was
Phillips or square. They had self drilling tips, which would be good
for soft woods, dangerously stupid for hard woods as they say they
need no pilot hole. I am sure they work well or Karl would not have
mentioned them, and equally sure they have their place.
But I passed, and found my screws at Fastenal. They aren't anything
special, but I have been using them for years and they come with their
own drive bit. They don't strip, the proprietary bit fits the head of
the screw perfectly.
Just as important to me, they don't grip so hard I can't get them
out. The Spax screws are made for a one time install with no further
movement. About a month after I do an cab install, I go back to the
client's house to adjust doors and cabinets for the last time and to
give them a handful of cards. If there has been some warpage or
movement, I need a screw with a strong head I can back out of its
countersunk hole a turn or so and then adjust the cabinet, then run
the screw back up.
The heads on the Spax didn't look that substantial, and the aggressive
threading made me think they might not come back out. The multihead
made me think that even more. I have paid the price for snapping off
heads to many times to take a chance.
>>If I had a choice<<, I wouldn't buy the combo head screws.
Robert
On Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:32:52 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>
> I have been using the screws for a couple of years now. Not impressed with
>
> the silver look, I don't want to draw attention to the screw. I have not
>
> noticed a quality problem or a bit fit problem. The silver color is a
>
> plating that will interfere with proper bit fit it the plating is too
>
> thick. I would prefer Kreg go back to the old color.
That is what I am thinking too. Actually, I use the Kreg screws for a lot of applications other than pocket joints. The old dark screws worked well and were very unobtrusive. Don't know why the changed unless they are cheaper.
RonB
On Feb 6, 4:29=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> What do you guys think of the new Kreg pocket hole screws with the univer=
sal head? =A0I ordered 1,000 of them a month or so ago and when I opened th=
e box two things struck me:
>
> - They were silver (I had heard that was coming).
> - My first thought was they had Phillips heads - Oh Oh!
>
> Then I took a close look, saw the square drive was incorporated into the =
Phillips cross. =A0I Googled a bit and saw that was the new design and deci=
ded it would be fine.
>
> Now I am back to my first though - Oh Oh. =A0I have probably driven more =
than 1,800 Kreg screws in the last 4-5 years and have never stripped a head=
or snapped a screw. =A0In the past couple of weeks I have stripped the hea=
ds on three of the new screws and snapped the first one ever. =A0With some =
of these screws the square screwdriver head just doesn't seem to seat into =
the head well.
>
> Am I having bad luck or are you guys having problems too?
>
> RonB
Were the old ones cheap crap Chinese metallurgy?
On Feb 7, 12:57=A0am, "Gramp's shop" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Had a similar experience. My square drive bits don't seem to seat as well=
in the new screws. Actually, I like McFeeley's a lot better. As long as we=
're talking pocket holes, why is coarse thread recommended for softwood and=
fine thread for hardwood?
>
> Larry
Try running a fine thread sheet rock screw into soft pine. Many times
on shorter screws you can put enough torque behind it to have the
threads pull out the pathway (the wood the threads are biting into) of
the screw hole, like tiny teeth. The large threads are more
aggressive in their grip and grab more material making it harder for
it to strip out the screw.
In some cases hardwood can split and crack easier and the finer
threads give you more control over your drive. You don't have to
worry about the grip of the screws as the hard wood will accommodate
the fine screw threads just fine without much chance of tearing out
the hole.
Like all of us, I have used coarse threads in softwood with no ill
effects and vice versa. But similarly, I have used the wrong screw
for the hardwood/softwood material with <<completely>> unsatisfactory
results. There are two different styles of screws for a reason.
Robert
On Feb 7, 6:03 pm, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> SPAX makes a superior Lag Screw. AND pricey..
I didn't have any problem with the price. I went down to HD at Karl's
suggestions and who knew... they had them on the rack. They were
something like 75 cents more a pound than my favorites.
On Feb 7, 5:36=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've not had single snapped head since I started using them a few years
> back. We do back a few out to when shimming during installation, to
> level and true a run, and have had no problems with that either.
I put up my cabinets with #10 X 3 or 3 1/2 screws and cannot imagine
driving a screw that big without a pilot hole. My drill would do it,
but I also use the same size when screwing the stiles together after
placement. I would think it the self drill threads would clog and you
would wind up with a split stile if you didn't drill first.
Are you using the same screws for the stiles, too? Do you pre-drill
any of the holes when using Spax on cabinets?
Inquiring minds....
Robert
On 2/6/2013 1:29 PM, RonB wrote:
> What do you guys think of the new Kreg pocket hole screws with the universal head? I ordered 1,000 of them a month or so ago and when I opened the box two things struck me:
>
> - They were silver (I had heard that was coming).
> - My first thought was they had Phillips heads - Oh Oh!
>
> Then I took a close look, saw the square drive was incorporated into the Phillips cross. I Googled a bit and saw that was the new design and decided it would be fine.
>
> Now I am back to my first though - Oh Oh. I have probably driven more than 1,800 Kreg screws in the last 4-5 years and have never stripped a head or snapped a screw. In the past couple of weeks I have stripped the heads on three of the new screws and snapped the first one ever. With some of these screws the square screwdriver head just doesn't seem to seat into the head well.
>
> Am I having bad luck or are you guys having problems too?
>
>
> RonB
>
I would call KREG on the phone...they are pretty easy to deal with and
would want to know about that problem.
Their screws are normally quite good in quality.
On 2/7/13 8:53 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/7/2013 8:21 AM, RonB wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:32:52 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have been using the screws for a couple of years now. Not
>>> impressed with the silver look, I don't want to draw attention to
>>> the screw. I have not noticed a quality problem or a bit fit
>>> problem. The silver color is a plating that will interfere with
>>> proper bit fit it the plating is too thick. I would prefer Kreg
>>> go back to the old color.
>>
>> That is what I am thinking too. Actually, I use the Kreg screws for a
>> lot of applications other than pocket joints. The old dark screws
>> worked well and were very unobtrusive. Don't know why the changed
>> unless they are cheaper.
>>
>> RonB
>>
>
> Ron, cheaper has to be the answer, I don't know of anyone that objected
> to the old screw. I probably use pocket hole screws for other uses 4 to
> 1 to actual pocket holes. I prefer the washer head to the flat head and
> the washer heads obliviously fit inside a 3/8" pilot hole. They can be
> easily plugged in regular applications if the screw needs to be hidden.
Same here, I use them for everything because of that fat head.
As for the new plating... I can think of two reasons...
1. the old ones may have been rusting on the ship from China.
2. Don't discount simple marketing. Kreg went from selling only to
specialty woodworking shops whose customers know and care mostly about
quality and performance, to selling in BigBox stores where packaging and
shelf placement do more for sales than anything else. Who knows, maybe
they did a marketing test in which people chose the new screws because
they were shinier. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/7/13 4:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Just as important to me, they don't grip so hard I can't get them
> out. The Spax screws are made for a one time install with no further
> movement. About a month after I do an cab install, I go back to the
> client's house to adjust doors and cabinets for the last time and to
> give them a handful of cards. If there has been some warpage or
> movement, I need a screw with a strong head I can back out of its
> countersunk hole a turn or so and then adjust the cabinet, then run
> the screw back up.
>
> The heads on the Spax didn't look that substantial, and the aggressive
> threading made me think they might not come back out. The multihead
> made me think that even more. I have paid the price for snapping off
> heads to many times to take a chance.
>
>>> If I had a choice<<, I wouldn't buy the combo head screws.
>
> Robert
>
>
FWIW, I use plenty of Spax screws and they have held up great.
I love the "aggressive" threads on them and I think that's what makes
them perform so well.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/7/2013 9:48 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> 2. Don't discount simple marketing. Kreg went from selling only to
> specialty woodworking shops whose customers know and care mostly about
> quality and performance, to selling in BigBox stores where packaging and
> shelf placement do more for sales than anything else. Who knows, maybe
> they did a marketing test in which people chose the new screws because
> they were shinier. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Yep, like today's tits ... they don't have to be real, or work, just
look good.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/8/2013 12:07 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Are you using the same screws for the stiles, too?
No, not at all ... just use the Spax where you need the shear strength,
attaching the cabinets to the wall (through cabinet back, hanger strip,
drywall, and into the cabinet blocking.
I would not use them for attaching face frames together. For that we use
a high quality square drive, pre-drill and countersink before driving.
> Do you pre-drill any of the holes when using Spax
> on cabinets?
Although you don't have too, I do prefer to pre-drill.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/7/2013 8:21 AM, RonB wrote:
> On Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:32:52 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have been using the screws for a couple of years now. Not impressed with
>>
>> the silver look, I don't want to draw attention to the screw. I have not
>>
>> noticed a quality problem or a bit fit problem. The silver color is a
>>
>> plating that will interfere with proper bit fit it the plating is too
>>
>> thick. I would prefer Kreg go back to the old color.
>
> That is what I am thinking too. Actually, I use the Kreg screws for a lot of applications other than pocket joints. The old dark screws worked well and were very unobtrusive. Don't know why the changed unless they are cheaper.
>
> RonB
>
Ron, cheaper has to be the answer, I don't know of anyone that objected
to the old screw. I probably use pocket hole screws for other uses 4 to
1 to actual pocket holes. I prefer the washer head to the flat head and
the washer heads obliviously fit inside a 3/8" pilot hole. They can be
easily plugged in regular applications if the screw needs to be hidden.
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:12:18 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>I was talking about the SPAX hex head lag screws, IIRC 5/16" x 5". I hung
>my limber rack with these. Over $1 each. Because I was going through the
>standard, a 2x4, and sheet rock to reach the stud I did not want to risk
>twisting twisting the head off.
How did you insert them? Ratchet wrench or impact gun?
On 2/8/2013 8:18 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:12:18 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I was talking about the SPAX hex head lag screws, IIRC 5/16" x 5". I hung
>> my limber rack with these. Over $1 each. Because I was going through the
>> standard, a 2x4, and sheet rock to reach the stud I did not want to risk
>> twisting twisting the head off.
>
> How did you insert them? Ratchet wrench or impact gun?
>
I predrilled, more to guide the screw, and used my impact driver.
At my old house the lumber rack was in our store room, I used the common
no name lag screws and twisted the head off using the impact and before
the head was seated. Fortunately there was .75~1" sticking out for the
vice grips to grab.