Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
Blair
Yellow pages for Printer Supply house, 99% isopropyl alcohol.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:19:53 -0700, "Howard Ruttan"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Don't ask me what drug addiction has to do
>with it - I just use it for shellac.
In Canada, you can find it at the pharmacy as Rubbing Alcohol
*Compound*.
95% anhydrous ethanol.
The paint stores here in Saskatoon didn't have a clue what I was
talking about.
Lee Valley carries it as well, but unless you have a store in your city
it's too expensive when you factor in shipping.
djb
--
Okay, so this is my new sig line, eh?
Denatured alcohol is usually sold as "Shellac Thinner" at the Borg,
so look for that instead.
Joe Drunk
: Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
: solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
: clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
: borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
: don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
: Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
: Blair
Blair asks:
>oes anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
>clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
Lowe's here sells alcohol. So do drug stores, WalMart, other places. If it
ain't medical alkie, it's denatured. All 'denatured' means is that a chemical
to make it taste awful, or be poisonous, has been added.
Charlie Self
"The income tax has made liars out of more Americans than golf."
Will Rogers
In <[email protected]> Bob Bowles wrote:
> Yellow pages for Printer Supply house, 99% isopropyl alcohol.
isopropyl may be an acceptable substitute, but it is not the same as
denatured alcohol.
-j
No shit? Did I not CLEARLY state "not the whole story .... "? What other
"trade" was under discussion?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
> Sorry but you #4 is not completely correct. Denatured
> alcohol for the paint trade may be denatured by adding a
> quantity of methyl alcohol, but not necessarily. Other
> chemicals, including benzene may added to denature ethyl
> alcohol, and not all products indicate what formula is used.
>
> Swingman wrote:
> >
> > Not the whole story, but enough to make note of the general differences
for
> > everyday use:
> >
> > 1. Isopropyl alcohol, or "rubbing alcohol" - Used as a thinner/solvent
in
> > its purer 99% form (water is generally the impurity). Poisionous if
taken
> > internally.
> > .
> > 2. Methanol, methyl alcohol, or wood alchol - made from wood, used as
> > industrial solvent/thinning agent in paint, varnish and shellac, and as
> > fuel. Extremely poisonous.
> >
> > 3. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, or grain alcohol - Medical soporific, an
> > ingredient in beer, wine, spirits. Produced naturally by reaction of
yeast
> > on sugars/starches. Used as a thinner/solvent in varnishes, etc.
> >
> > 4. Denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, denatured ethanol - poisonous
> > mixture (generally 95% Ethanol and 5% Methanol) of methyl and ethyl
alcohol
> > with solvent and fuel properties.
> >
> > --
> > www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 9/21/03.
> >
> > > >,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is
wood
> > alcohol
> > > >,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding
it to
> > Coca
> > > >,;Cola.
> > >
> > > Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
> > >
> > > You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
> > > quill will kill you
Not the whole story, but enough to make note of the general differences for
everyday use:
1. Isopropyl alcohol, or "rubbing alcohol" - Used as a thinner/solvent in
its purer 99% form (water is generally the impurity). Poisionous if taken
internally.
.
2. Methanol, methyl alcohol, or wood alchol - made from wood, used as
industrial solvent/thinning agent in paint, varnish and shellac, and as
fuel. Extremely poisonous.
3. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, or grain alcohol - Medical soporific, an
ingredient in beer, wine, spirits. Produced naturally by reaction of yeast
on sugars/starches. Used as a thinner/solvent in varnishes, etc.
4. Denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, denatured ethanol - poisonous
mixture (generally 95% Ethanol and 5% Methanol) of methyl and ethyl alcohol
with solvent and fuel properties.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03.
> >,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood
alcohol
> >,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to
Coca
> >,;Cola.
>
> Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
>
> You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
> quill will kill you
Holy Cow,
I didn't want to start a controversial thread, but I do appreciate the
feedback I got. I had asked at the local Home Depot and the people in the
paint department were unfamiliar with denatured alcohol, I guess like
someone posted, we have to have a permit for it in Canada.
Thanks to all for the input,
Blair
Hi Blair,
It ( denatured ethanol) is hard to come by in Canada. I buy mine from a
chemical supply store for $12 a gallon. What is usually substituted for DA is
methanol which is usually available at the Borgs or paint stores labeled as
shellac solvent. Cheers, JG
ps- I believe that ethanol is a better solvent for shellac than methanol
Blair wrote:
> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
> Blair
[email protected] wrote:
>
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:09:49 +1000, "Roger Martin"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >,;"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >,;news:[email protected]...
> >,;> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> >,;> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
> >,;to
> >,;> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> >,;> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
> >,;> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> >,;> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
> Take some of your primer and check if it is miscible with the solvent
> before you load the sprayer.
> >,;>
> >,;> Blair
> >,;>
> >,;>
> >,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood alcohol
> >,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to Coca
> >,;Cola.
>
> Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
>
> You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
> quill will kill you
You are correct but too tentative. It's quite simple.
Ethyl alcohol is the drinking kind and it is heavily taxed
in the USA (inedible alcohols are not taxed). The purpose
of denaturing is too make ethyl alcohl inedible (not taste
bad but actually poisonous). It's been a long time since I
reviewed this, but there are many government approved
formulas (about 80, if I remember correctly) to denature
ethyl alcohol. Once it is denatured the manufacturer
doesn't have to pay the alcohol tax. Methy alcohol is
poisonous as are propyl, butyl etc. which are not heavily
taxed. The whole pupose of denaturing is to reduce the
government tax and thereby reduced the cost.
Sorry but you #4 is not completely correct. Denatured
alcohol for the paint trade may be denatured by adding a
quantity of methyl alcohol, but not necessarily. Other
chemicals, including benzene may added to denature ethyl
alcohol, and not all products indicate what formula is used.
Swingman wrote:
>
> Not the whole story, but enough to make note of the general differences for
> everyday use:
>
> 1. Isopropyl alcohol, or "rubbing alcohol" - Used as a thinner/solvent in
> its purer 99% form (water is generally the impurity). Poisionous if taken
> internally.
> .
> 2. Methanol, methyl alcohol, or wood alchol - made from wood, used as
> industrial solvent/thinning agent in paint, varnish and shellac, and as
> fuel. Extremely poisonous.
>
> 3. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, or grain alcohol - Medical soporific, an
> ingredient in beer, wine, spirits. Produced naturally by reaction of yeast
> on sugars/starches. Used as a thinner/solvent in varnishes, etc.
>
> 4. Denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, denatured ethanol - poisonous
> mixture (generally 95% Ethanol and 5% Methanol) of methyl and ethyl alcohol
> with solvent and fuel properties.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03.
>
> > >,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood
> alcohol
> > >,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to
> Coca
> > >,;Cola.
> >
> > Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
> >
> > You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
> > quill will kill you
Not only that, but all of the cans of mixed shellac that I
have seen (admittedly a small sample) say to dilute with
denatured alcohol which means ethyl alcohol. In other
words, they don't suggest using methy- or propyl-alcohol.
Young Carpenter wrote:
>
> Just a note that Rubbing alcohol is the weakest of the list of solvents, in
> other words it takes more to dissolve/remove less
>
> --
> Young Carpenter
>
> "Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
> plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
>
> "Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> > >solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
> to
> > >clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> > >borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
> > >don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> > >Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
> > >
> > >Blair
> > >
> >
> >
> > Get the 91% rubbing alcohol instead of the the more common 70% alcohol
> > which has more water in it. Look in the pharmacy section. You could
> > use grain alcohol (or even moonshine for that matter) which is more
> > expensive. But, stay away from wood alcohol (methanol).
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Chris Merrill wrote:
> I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$, but are you sure? I found it, by the
> gallon, at Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware. It's alongside the
> other solvents - mineral spirits, etc.
It looks like a permit is required to sell denatured alcohol in Canada. See:
http://www.infoentrepreneurs.org/english/display.cfm?Code=2315&coll=FE_FEDSBIS_E
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
methanol is "nasty stuff?"
Swingman wrote:
>
> Whether they "suggest" it or not, either can be used as a solvent for
> shellac ... but they will take longer to dissolve the flakes, and they
> extend the drying time, which can be a good thing.
>
> Methyl alcohol is nasty stuff and I prefer not to deal with it in the home
> shop. Isopropyl is _much_ friendlier to use as a solvent. I actually prefer
> 99% isopropyl for shellac, for the price, and for the extended drying time
> it gives ... especially when spraying.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
>
> > Not only that, but all of the cans of mixed shellac that I
> > have seen (admittedly a small sample) say to dilute with
> > denatured alcohol which means ethyl alcohol. In other
> > words, they don't suggest using methy- or propyl-alcohol.
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
> >indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
> >shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
> >what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
> >most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
> >methanol is "nasty stuff?"
> >
> It's a *lot* more poisonous than the other common alcohols.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
So? I'm not drinking it.
Barry Lennox wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
> >indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
> >shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
> >what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
> >most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
> >methanol is "nasty stuff?"
>
> Courtesy: Irvine Sax "Hazardous Chemicals in the Workplace"
>
> Isopropyl alcohol OSHA limit 400ppm. Eye irritant and low toxicity via
> skin.
>
> Methyl alcohol OSHA limit 200ppm. Irritant and cumulative poison.
> Readily absorbed via skin.
>
> Ethyl alcohol OSHA limit 1000ppm. Is readily oxidised in the body, in
> contrast to methanol, no cumulative effect occurs. Large or repeated
> doses can cause alcoholism, liver cirrhosis, and alcohol poisoning. (I
> guess many of us know that!)
>
> Barry Lennox
OSHA ppm limits are for what? the air? or liquids that
touch you? If the latter, it is nonsense. 70 percent
isopropyl alcohol is actually 7000 ppm. 1000 ppm ethanol is
10 percent whereas many after shaves are near 50 percent.
then 1000 ppm ethanol is a 10 percent solution. Anyway, all
that is irrelevant to the discussion. 200 ppm methanol is a
0.2 percent solution. You don't drinking itand you wear
protective breathing equipment, don't you? You want to
compare the effect with paint thinner, turpentine, lacquer
thinner, and other solvents?
Unless you are drinking these fluids, spraying without using
a respirator, or have you bare hands and arms emersed in
liquid, I don't see the problem?
Phisherman wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
> >indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
> >shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
> >what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
> >most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
> >methanol is "nasty stuff?"
> >
>
> Methanol ("Wood alcohol," or methyl alcohol) is poison ious and known
> to be carcinogenic. Rubber gloves, respirator, and plenty of fresh
> air is recommended.
Right, that doesn't make it nasty. Compared to many
solvents and other fluids in the workshop, it is practically
benign, unless you drink it.
Damn! You're correct. That will teach me not to divide it
out. Maybe OSHA's ppm refer to blood levels.
Wood Butcher wrote:
>
> Not quite right.
> ppm is parts per million not parts per ten thousand.
>
> 100% = 1,000,000ppm
> 70% = 700,000ppm
> 1000ppm = 0.10%
> 200ppm = 0.02%
>
> Art
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > or liquids that
> > touch you? If the latter, it is nonsense. 70 percent
> > isopropyl alcohol is actually 7000 ppm. 1000 ppm ethanol is
> > 10 percent whereas many after shaves are near 50 percent.
> > then 1000 ppm ethanol is a 10 percent solution. Anyway, all
> > that is irrelevant to the discussion. 200 ppm methanol is a
> > 0.2 percent solution.
Just a note that Rubbing alcohol is the weakest of the list of solvents, in
other words it takes more to dissolve/remove less
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> >solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
to
> >clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> >borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
> >don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> >Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
> >
> >Blair
> >
>
>
> Get the 91% rubbing alcohol instead of the the more common 70% alcohol
> which has more water in it. Look in the pharmacy section. You could
> use grain alcohol (or even moonshine for that matter) which is more
> expensive. But, stay away from wood alcohol (methanol).
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
I forgot to also say that Isopropyl is often diluted in the first place. If
it is diluted with water there are other troubles to consider.
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Whether they "suggest" it or not, either can be used as a solvent for
> shellac ... but they will take longer to dissolve the flakes, and they
> extend the drying time, which can be a good thing.
>
> Methyl alcohol is nasty stuff and I prefer not to deal with it in the home
> shop. Isopropyl is _much_ friendlier to use as a solvent. I actually
prefer
> 99% isopropyl for shellac, for the price, and for the extended drying time
> it gives ... especially when spraying.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
>
> > Not only that, but all of the cans of mixed shellac that I
> > have seen (admittedly a small sample) say to dilute with
> > denatured alcohol which means ethyl alcohol. In other
> > words, they don't suggest using methy- or propyl-alcohol.
>
>
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Denatured drinking alcohol has been for the most part cheapest to make .
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:09:49 +1000, "Roger Martin"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >,;"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >,;news:[email protected]...
> > >,;> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> > >,;> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says
I have
> > >,;to
> > >,;> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer
is
> > >,;> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The
Borg
> > >,;> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware
stores.
> > >,;> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
> >
> > Take some of your primer and check if it is miscible with the solvent
> > before you load the sprayer.
> > >,;>
> > >,;> Blair
> > >,;>
> > >,;>
> > >,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood
alcohol
> > >,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it
to Coca
> > >,;Cola.
> >
> > Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
> >
> > You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
> > quill will kill you
>
> You are correct but too tentative. It's quite simple.
> Ethyl alcohol is the drinking kind and it is heavily taxed
> in the USA (inedible alcohols are not taxed). The purpose
> of denaturing is too make ethyl alcohl inedible (not taste
> bad but actually poisonous). It's been a long time since I
> reviewed this, but there are many government approved
> formulas (about 80, if I remember correctly) to denature
> ethyl alcohol. Once it is denatured the manufacturer
> doesn't have to pay the alcohol tax. Methy alcohol is
> poisonous as are propyl, butyl etc. which are not heavily
> taxed. The whole pupose of denaturing is to reduce the
> government tax and thereby reduced the cost.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
On the other hand, there is an antidote to methanol poisoning.
http://www.embbs.com/cr/alc/alc6.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=86176434
As to cumulative effect - problematic. Metabolism is generally fairly rapid
and complete.
CHEERS!
"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Methyl alcohol is quite volatile - so it will be breathed in if you
> are using it, and especially it will be in the air if you are spraying
> it. A respirator will help *only* if it has cannisters rated for
> organic solvents, or if it supplies outside air. I don't know how much
> will be absorbed through the skin.
>
> Also note the "cumulative poison" aspect. If you need to use it once,
> or once a year - that's much less a worry than if it is used over and
> over.
> --
> --henry schaffer
> [email protected]
Ayup.
Silliness by other posters aside, what's in the air can't kill you. Has to
get inside first.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Damn! You're correct. That will teach me not to divide it
> out. Maybe OSHA's ppm refer to blood levels.
>
It's called "huffing," and it's not the addict, it's the middle-schooler who
normally huffs. By Jr High there're normally enough pushers to provide a
high, and enough money from home to buy it.
http://www.inhalants.org/
http://www.napafasa.org/huffing.htm
From nitrous oxide in Redi-Whip, through gasoline and foot spray, they'll do
whatever's at hand.
"Howard Ruttan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My local Borg sells it as denatured alcohol. They all deal with the same
> supplier so look for a big (gallon sized?) blue can. I don't think they
> carry it in small cans. Some HD stores don't carry it at all. Another HD
I
> frequent explained that nobody buys it (or lacquer thinner) except drug
> addicts so they won't stock it. Don't ask me what drug addiction has to
do
> with it - I just use it for shellac.
EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked, the
wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George, you seem to know an awful lot about this subject... :)
>
> dave
>
> George wrote:
>
> > It's called "huffing," and it's not the addict, it's the middle-schooler
who
> > normally huffs. By Jr High there're normally enough pushers to provide
a
> > high, and enough money from home to buy it.
> >
> > http://www.inhalants.org/
> > http://www.napafasa.org/huffing.htm
> >
> > From nitrous oxide in Redi-Whip, through gasoline and foot spray,
they'll do
> > whatever's at hand.
No way to be detached, even at the end of a busy 48-hour shift when you're
hard pressed to stay awake - you're dealing with humans. Granted, some are
incredibly stupid, but you can't brood over it.
Some days (Sunday) the kid pukes out the chunk on, and turns pink in front
of you, and even though mom and grandma don't say "thanks," the glass is at
least half full.
When a sweet-faced stranger comes up on the sidewalk to give you a hug, then
thanks you and identifies herself as the hamburger face whose left eye you
packed up and secured to her cheek before you shipped her from an auto
accident ten years back, the cup runs over.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> is anyone working that field get "used" to what they see? Can you stay
> detached? Is there high turnover?
>
> dave
>
> George wrote:
>
> > EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked,
the
> > wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.
On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:09:49 +1000, "Roger Martin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
>to
>> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>>
>> Blair
>>
>>
>De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood alcohol
>with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to Coca
>Cola.
Grain alcohol, not wood alcohol. No need to denature wood alcohol,
it's bad enough already.
--
- Charles
-
-does not play well with others
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Phisherman wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
[clip]
> > >
> >
> > Methanol ("Wood alcohol," or methyl alcohol) is poison ious and known
> > to be carcinogenic. Rubber gloves, respirator, and plenty of fresh
> > air is recommended.
>
> Right, that doesn't make it nasty. Compared to many
> solvents and other fluids in the workshop, it is practically
> benign, unless you drink it.
No.
Nonononononononononononononononononono.
Nope. Negative. No way.
Methanol is way bad. It is extremely volatile. This is a plus for a
fast-drying evaporative solvent, and a huge minus if the stuff is
poisonous. Why? It's easily inhaled, and absorbed through mucous
membranes. What's that? Your nose, your eyes, and to some extent, your
skin. It is dangerous to your optic nerve. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRINK IT
FOR IT TO SEVERELY EFF YOU UP. Yes, I was screaming just then.
Do not use the terms methanol and benign without in intervening not.
And comparing it to other nasty solvents in the shop is meaningless.
It's bad shit all on its own. Period.
Methanol is my last choice as a denaturant for ethyl alcohol. There
are other lower alchols which are *less* (and they are by no means
benign) poisonous than methanol. Butyl and isopropyl alcohols come to
mind.
As a big galoot who has done a good number of projects in shellac
(thinned by alcohol), I go out of my way to find denatured alcohol
which contains no methanol. I also try to avoid benzene and MEK as
much as possible as well. When you buy a solvent, insist on seeing
the MSDS on it.
No matter what alcohol you use, make sure you have a well-ventilated
environment, and if that isn't possible, wear a respirator certified
for VOC's (volatile organic compounds).
Hell, even ethyl alcohol is hardly benign. If you get enough in you
(no, you don't have to drink it), it's deadly as well.
Give solvents the respect they deserve, or find yourself dead or with
brain damage. Well, for some of us, with even *more* brain damage.
O'Deen
On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
>clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
>Blair
>
Get the 91% rubbing alcohol instead of the the more common 70% alcohol
which has more water in it. Look in the pharmacy section. You could
use grain alcohol (or even moonshine for that matter) which is more
expensive. But, stay away from wood alcohol (methanol).
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:11:09 GMT, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >,;Not the whole story, but enough to make note of the general differences
for
> >,;everyday use:
> >,;
> >,;1. Isopropyl alcohol, or "rubbing alcohol" - Used as a thinner/solvent
in
> >,;its purer 99% form (water is generally the impurity). Poisionous if
taken
> >,;internally.
> >,;.
> >,;2. Methanol, methyl alcohol, or wood alchol - made from wood, used as
> >,;industrial solvent/thinning agent in paint, varnish and shellac, and as
> >,;fuel. Extremely poisonous.
> >,;
> >,;3. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, or grain alcohol - Medical soporific, an
> >,;ingredient in beer, wine, spirits. Produced naturally by reaction of
yeast
> >,;on sugars/starches. Used as a thinner/solvent in varnishes, etc.
> >,;
> >,;4. Denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, denatured ethanol -
poisonous
> >,;mixture (generally 95% Ethanol and 5% Methanol) of methyl and ethyl
alcohol
> >,;with solvent and fuel properties.
>
> You were Ok on 1 through 3. (Spelling error in 2)
Gimmme a break ... are you now self appointed spell checker for the forum?
>
> You lost considerable credibility with item 4.
Not at all ... but _you_ did with that statement.
Under discussion was denatured alcohol used a SOLVENT. Title 27 of the Code
of Federal Regulations, Chapter 1, Part 21, Section 21.35, specifies 100
gallons of ethanol to five gallons of methyl alcohol. Formula No 3A is one
of the formula authorized for many, if not most, of the uses of denatured
alcohol as a SOLVENT, per the discussion in this thread.
Also make note of my lead off disclaimer in my first sentence ... of course
it's not the whole story, or the only formula, but some of you guys seem to
expect a chemistry lesson in a discussion clearly not calling for one.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 01:53:24 GMT, Nova <[email protected]>
scribbled
>Chris Merrill wrote:
>
>> I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$, but are you sure? I found it, by the
>> gallon, at Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware. It's alongside the
>> other solvents - mineral spirits, etc.
>
>It looks like a permit is required to sell denatured alcohol in Canada. See:
>
> http://www.infoentrepreneurs.org/english/display.cfm?Code=2315&coll=FE_FEDSBIS_E
If it wasn't for those regulations, people might get drunk, beat each
other up and kill other people while driving. It's time to ban it,
nevermind the ineffective regulations. Oh ... You mean it's been
tried?
Note that Lee Valley can't export its shellac thinner, so I suspect
that the US Revenooers probably have similar regulations.
But we can get pure methyl alcohol, sold as methyl hydrate in all the
better borgs.
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" twice
in reply address for real email address
George, you seem to know an awful lot about this subject... :)
dave
George wrote:
> It's called "huffing," and it's not the addict, it's the middle-schooler who
> normally huffs. By Jr High there're normally enough pushers to provide a
> high, and enough money from home to buy it.
>
> http://www.inhalants.org/
> http://www.napafasa.org/huffing.htm
>
> From nitrous oxide in Redi-Whip, through gasoline and foot spray, they'll do
> whatever's at hand.
>
> "Howard Ruttan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>My local Borg sells it as denatured alcohol. They all deal with the same
>>supplier so look for a big (gallon sized?) blue can. I don't think they
>>carry it in small cans. Some HD stores don't carry it at all. Another HD
>
> I
>
>>frequent explained that nobody buys it (or lacquer thinner) except drug
>>addicts so they won't stock it. Don't ask me what drug addiction has to
>
> do
>
>>with it - I just use it for shellac.
>
>
>
I found at my local Home Depot (Jacksonville, FL) in the staining
section.
"Dan Dunphy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got mine at Walmart
> Use it for stove fuel.
> Dan
>
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> >solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I
have to
> >clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> >borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The
Borg
> >don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware
stores.
> >Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
> >
> >Blair
> >
>
> Colorado Springs, CO
> My advice may be worth what you paid for it.
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
>indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
>shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
>what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
>most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
>methanol is "nasty stuff?"
>
It's a *lot* more poisonous than the other common alcohols.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked, the
>wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.
>
And sometimes the fried... a few years ago, two local teens were huffing
propane inside a van. One of them lit a cigarette.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Blair wrote:
> The Borg
> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$, but are you sure? I found it, by the
gallon, at Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware. It's alongside the
other solvents - mineral spirits, etc.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
Not quite right.
ppm is parts per million not parts per ten thousand.
100% = 1,000,000ppm
70% = 700,000ppm
1000ppm = 0.10%
200ppm = 0.02%
Art
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> or liquids that
> touch you? If the latter, it is nonsense. 70 percent
> isopropyl alcohol is actually 7000 ppm. 1000 ppm ethanol is
> 10 percent whereas many after shaves are near 50 percent.
> then 1000 ppm ethanol is a 10 percent solution. Anyway, all
> that is irrelevant to the discussion. 200 ppm methanol is a
> 0.2 percent solution.
On 5-Oct-2003, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess like
> someone posted, we have to have a permit for it in Canada.
Making denatured alcohol is not a tiny business in Canada.
A lot is used in gasoline. I can see needing a permit for
making and importing it, but not for buying it in small
quantities.
Try Fisher Scientific Canada:
<http://catalog.fishersci.ca/catalog/en/Default.asp?cat=ChemicalDry%2DOrganicNon%2DGraded&expand=True#ChemicalDry-OrganicNon-Graded>
If they can't sell it directly, they may be able to point
you to someone who can.
Mike
I don't like methanol mostly because of its inhalation toxicity, and the
fact that it is a regulated substance for disposal hereabouts. The first
might not bother someone young and in good heath, but some of us older
farts, ex smokers and drinkers to boot, need all the help we can get for our
lungs and livers.
I know ... wear a mask. I try to, but am not always successful.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
>
>
> Doug Miller wrote:
> >
> > In article "George E. Cawthon" wrote:
> > >You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
> > >indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
> > >shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
> > >what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
> > >most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
> > >methanol is "nasty stuff?"
> > >
> > It's a *lot* more poisonous than the other common alcohols.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> So? I'm not drinking it.
On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:09:49 +1000, "Roger Martin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>,;"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>,;news:[email protected]...
>,;> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>,;> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
>,;to
>,;> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>,;> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>,;> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>,;> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
Take some of your primer and check if it is miscible with the solvent
before you load the sprayer.
>,;>
>,;> Blair
>,;>
>,;>
>,;De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood alcohol
>,;with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to Coca
>,;Cola.
Not in the USA. Denatured alcohol usually refers to ethyl alcohol.
You don't need to add a denaturant to methyl alcohol. The straight
quill will kill you
"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
> solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have
to
> clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
> borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
> don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
> Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
> Blair
>
>
De natured alcohol is usually just methylated spirits, which is wood alcohol
with a small amount of a foul tasting additive to stop you adding it to Coca
Cola.
--
www.bribieisland4x4hire.com
VW Kombi Camper Buy Backs
Landcruiser Troopy - Toyota Hilux Crew Cab
Mitsubishi Pajero - Landrover V8 Swag Camper
In article <[email protected]>,
George E. Cawthon <[email protected]> wrote:
> ... [discussing methyl alcohol]
>Unless you are drinking these fluids, spraying without using
>a respirator, or have you bare hands and arms emersed in
>liquid, I don't see the problem?
Methyl alcohol is quite volatile - so it will be breathed in if you
are using it, and especially it will be in the air if you are spraying
it. A respirator will help *only* if it has cannisters rated for
organic solvents, or if it supplies outside air. I don't know how much
will be absorbed through the skin.
Also note the "cumulative poison" aspect. If you need to use it once,
or once a year - that's much less a worry than if it is used over and
over.
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]
Whether they "suggest" it or not, either can be used as a solvent for
shellac ... but they will take longer to dissolve the flakes, and they
extend the drying time, which can be a good thing.
Methyl alcohol is nasty stuff and I prefer not to deal with it in the home
shop. Isopropyl is _much_ friendlier to use as a solvent. I actually prefer
99% isopropyl for shellac, for the price, and for the extended drying time
it gives ... especially when spraying.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
> Not only that, but all of the cans of mixed shellac that I
> have seen (admittedly a small sample) say to dilute with
> denatured alcohol which means ethyl alcohol. In other
> words, they don't suggest using methy- or propyl-alcohol.
<[email protected]> wrote..
> Denatured alcohol is usually sold as "Shellac Thinner" at the Borg,
> so look for that instead.
>
My local Borg sells it as denatured alcohol. They all deal with the same
supplier so look for a big (gallon sized?) blue can. I don't think they
carry it in small cans. Some HD stores don't carry it at all. Another HD I
frequent explained that nobody buys it (or lacquer thinner) except drug
addicts so they won't stock it. Don't ask me what drug addiction has to do
with it - I just use it for shellac.
--
Cheers,
Howard
----------------------------------------------------------
Working wood in New Jersey - [email protected]
Visit me in the woodshop - www.inthewoodshop.org
"Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> As a big galoot who has done a good number of projects in shellac
> (thinned by alcohol), I go out of my way to find denatured alcohol
> which contains no methanol. I also try to avoid benzene and MEK as
> much as possible as well. When you buy a solvent, insist on seeing
> the MSDS on it.
Hi Paddy, long time no read. I noticed you said "I also try to avoid benzene
and MEK", it struck me as a bit understated, as I remember Defence pulling
MEK out of all Air Force paint shops back in the mid-80's - bad stuff. So I
checked a little and found the US doesn't appear to think it's as dangerous
as we do.
Further info below:
Oz
What effect might methyl ethyl ketone have on my health?
Breathing methyl ethyl ketone for short periods of time (ie painting in a
poorly ventilated area) can affect the nervous system. Effects include
headaches, dizziness, fatigue, narcosis (acts like a narcotic), nausea,
vomiting, and passing out. Methyl ethyl ketone vapour irritates the eyes,
nose, and throat. Prolonged contact with the skin causes irritation. Contact
with the eyes can permanently damage them. Repeated exposure may damage the
nervous system and may affect the brain.
<http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/airtoxics/sok/profiles/methyl.html>
USA
Methyl ethyl ketone is used as a solvent. Acute (short-term) inhalation
exposure to methyl ethyl ketone in humans results in irritation to the eyes,
nose, and throat. Limited information is available on the chronic
(long-term) effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans. Chronic inhalation
studies in animals have reported slight neurological, liver, kidney, and
respiratory effects. No information is available on the developmental,
reproductive, or carcinogenic effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans.
Developmental effects, including decreased fetal weight and fetal
malformations, have been reported in mice and rats exposed to methyl ethyl
ketone via inhalation and ingestion. EPA has classified methyl ethyl ketone
as a Group D, not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity.
<http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/methylet.html>
cheers,
Greg
I hope you aren't making martinis with that stuff John!
Blair
"Eddie Munster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> But what really is the difference?
>
> John
>
> Luigi Zanasi wrote:
>
> >But we can get pure methyl alcohol, sold as methyl hydrate in all the
> >better borgs.
> >
> >
> >
>
Blair,
Where do you live?
My local HD sells it by the gallon. I don't remember the brand name, but it
was the rectangular metal cans - Blue colored label. Or at least used to be
. . . maybe plastic now.
I use it regularly for cleaning my epoxy tools, and for minimal
dilution,etc. I don't use much because I'm very careful about all solvents .
. . also CHEAP.
I also know that HD also sells a number of solvents that are MUCH MORE
'hazardous' then DN Alcohol !! Just look in the 'Paint Department' where
they have the 'Brush Cleaners', 'Mineral Spirits', 'Adhesive Removers', etc.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Blair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> denatured alcohol . . . The Borg don't seem to sell this and neither do
the other local hardware stores.
is anyone working that field get "used" to what they see? Can you stay
detached? Is there high turnover?
dave
George wrote:
> EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked, the
> wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>George, you seem to know an awful lot about this subject... :)
>>
>>dave
>>
>>George wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It's called "huffing," and it's not the addict, it's the middle-schooler
>
> who
>
>>>normally huffs. By Jr High there're normally enough pushers to provide
>
> a
>
>>>high, and enough money from home to buy it.
>>>
>>>http://www.inhalants.org/
>>>http://www.napafasa.org/huffing.htm
>>>
>>>From nitrous oxide in Redi-Whip, through gasoline and foot spray,
>
> they'll do
>
>>>whatever's at hand.
>
>
>
On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:11:09 GMT, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>,;Not the whole story, but enough to make note of the general differences for
>,;everyday use:
>,;
>,;1. Isopropyl alcohol, or "rubbing alcohol" - Used as a thinner/solvent in
>,;its purer 99% form (water is generally the impurity). Poisionous if taken
>,;internally.
>,;.
>,;2. Methanol, methyl alcohol, or wood alchol - made from wood, used as
>,;industrial solvent/thinning agent in paint, varnish and shellac, and as
>,;fuel. Extremely poisonous.
>,;
>,;3. Ethanol, ethyl alcohol, or grain alcohol - Medical soporific, an
>,;ingredient in beer, wine, spirits. Produced naturally by reaction of yeast
>,;on sugars/starches. Used as a thinner/solvent in varnishes, etc.
>,;
>,;4. Denatured alcohol, methylated spirits, denatured ethanol - poisonous
>,;mixture (generally 95% Ethanol and 5% Methanol) of methyl and ethyl alcohol
>,;with solvent and fuel properties.
You were Ok on 1 through 3. (Spelling error in 2)
You lost considerable credibility with item 4.
George, thanks for sharing the "flip side"; the satisfaction of helping
folks in need. My hat's off to you, sir!
dave
George wrote:
> No way to be detached, even at the end of a busy 48-hour shift when you're
> hard pressed to stay awake - you're dealing with humans. Granted, some are
> incredibly stupid, but you can't brood over it.
>
> Some days (Sunday) the kid pukes out the chunk on, and turns pink in front
> of you, and even though mom and grandma don't say "thanks," the glass is at
> least half full.
>
> When a sweet-faced stranger comes up on the sidewalk to give you a hug, then
> thanks you and identifies herself as the hamburger face whose left eye you
> packed up and secured to her cheek before you shipped her from an auto
> accident ten years back, the cup runs over.
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>is anyone working that field get "used" to what they see? Can you stay
>>detached? Is there high turnover?
>>
>>dave
>>
>>George wrote:
>>
>>
>>>EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked,
>
> the
>
>>>wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.
>
>
>
I got mine at Walmart
Use it for stove fuel.
Dan
On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
>clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
>Blair
>
Colorado Springs, CO
My advice may be worth what you paid for it.
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:44:53 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> It's a *lot* more poisonous than the other common alcohols.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
>So? I'm not drinking it.
You don't need to. It's poisonous when absorbed through the skin or
when the fumes are inhaled.
-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
>indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
>shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
>what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
>most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
>methanol is "nasty stuff?"
Courtesy: Irvine Sax "Hazardous Chemicals in the Workplace"
Isopropyl alcohol OSHA limit 400ppm. Eye irritant and low toxicity via
skin.
Methyl alcohol OSHA limit 200ppm. Irritant and cumulative poison.
Readily absorbed via skin.
Ethyl alcohol OSHA limit 1000ppm. Is readily oxidised in the body, in
contrast to methanol, no cumulative effect occurs. Large or repeated
doses can cause alcoholism, liver cirrhosis, and alcohol poisoning. (I
guess many of us know that!)
Barry Lennox
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:01:45 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Courtesy: Irvine Sax "Hazardous Chemicals in the Workplace"
>>
>> Isopropyl alcohol OSHA limit 400ppm. Eye irritant and low toxicity via
>> skin.
>>
>> Methyl alcohol OSHA limit 200ppm. Irritant and cumulative poison.
>> Readily absorbed via skin.
>>
>> Ethyl alcohol OSHA limit 1000ppm. Is readily oxidised in the body, in
>> contrast to methanol, no cumulative effect occurs. Large or repeated
>> doses can cause alcoholism, liver cirrhosis, and alcohol poisoning. (I
>> guess many of us know that!)
>>
>> Barry Lennox
>
>OSHA ppm limits are for what? the air?
You probably know full well it's PEL in air
> or liquids that >touch you? If the latter, it is nonsense.
Agreed, nonsense, no point in duscussing it.
>70 percent >isopropyl alcohol is actually 7000 ppm.
Quite wrong, 70% would be 700,000 ppm. But you are missing the point
anyway.
> 1000 ppm ethanol is
>10 percent whereas many after shaves are near 50 percent.
>then 1000 ppm ethanol is a 10 percent solution. Anyway, all
>that is irrelevant to the discussion. 200 ppm methanol is a
>0.2 percent solution. You don't drinking itand you wear
>protective breathing equipment, don't you? You want to
>compare the effect with paint thinner, turpentine, lacquer
>thinner, and other solvents?
Yes, Sax lists all those, and thousands more; but the OP was
discussing the toxicities of alcohols.
>Unless you are drinking these fluids, spraying without using
>a respirator, or have you bare hands and arms emersed in
>liquid, I don't see the problem?
Excellent, use whatever you want.
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You've got a point. Paint/finish cans often hint or
>indicate by lack of statement that certain solvents
>shouldn't be used AND the instruction can be confusing as to
>what can be used as a solvent. Denatured fits my bill for
>most things both on drying time and cost, but why do you say
>methanol is "nasty stuff?"
>
Methanol ("Wood alcohol," or methyl alcohol) is poison ious and known
to be carcinogenic. Rubber gloves, respirator, and plenty of fresh
air is recommended.
On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:42 -0400, "Blair" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other
>solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to
>clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is
>borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg
>don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores.
>Maybe I will have to try a painting store.
>
>Blair
>
Is this stuff not legal in Canada? Ask in a paint store.
I can get denatured alcohol at *any* BORG, paint store, hardware
store, heck, even my local Wal*Mart, here in the US. It's usually
about $9 US a gallon, more for boutique brands.
Ammonia will also nicely clean up BIN, but will attack some metals.
If you're spraying a small area, BIN comes in spray bombs.
Barry