gray_wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my garage.
> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come out.
> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for days.
> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>
Glue it down.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>
>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>
>>> No it won't.
>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>
>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>> to make a curve.
>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>> from under it.
>
>Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).
>>
The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
back side.
On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> gray_wolf<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my
>>> garage.
>>> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come
>>> out.
>>> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for
>>> days.
>>> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>>
>>
>> Glue it down.
>
> +1
>
> Use the original (not the new waterbase and I'm presuming can still
> obtain it; been a _long_ time since I've done any laminate, like 15 yr)
> contact cement as it's stickier imo altho probably can get by otherwise.
>
> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the surface
> with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good bond and
> roll it well it should be fine.
How about some cauls?<g>
On 11/21/2015 10:58 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
>
>>> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the
>>> surface with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good
>>> bond and roll it well it should be fine.
>>
>>
>> How about some cauls?<g>
>
> In this application, the 3/4 ply _is_ a caul. Oh noes! We've
> violated Electric Comet's definition of caul! Who'd have
> thought a caul could be 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, and only
> 3/4 inch thick, with no curve!
No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
That'll put a curve on it!<g>
On 11/21/2015 11:47 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> On 11/21/2015 10:58 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the
>>>>> surface with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good
>>>>> bond and roll it well it should be fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about some cauls?<g>
>>>
>>> In this application, the 3/4 ply _is_ a caul. Oh noes! We've
>>> violated Electric Comet's definition of caul! Who'd have
>>> thought a caul could be 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, and only
>>> 3/4 inch thick, with no curve!
>>
>>
>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>
> No it won't.
> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>
Read it again, Jeff. I was referring to putting a curve to the caul,
the 3/4" plywood<g>
On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 10:58 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
>>
>>>> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the
>>>> surface with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good
>>>> bond and roll it well it should be fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> How about some cauls?<g>
>>
>> In this application, the 3/4 ply _is_ a caul. Oh noes! We've
>> violated Electric Comet's definition of caul! Who'd have
>> thought a caul could be 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, and only
>> 3/4 inch thick, with no curve!
>
>
> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>
No it won't.
Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
--
Jeff
On 11/24/2015 7:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>>>> back side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>>>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>>>> different temp.
>>>
>>> From Formica's information on the internet at:
>>> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>>>
>>> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
>>> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
>>> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
>>> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
>>> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
>>> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
>>> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
>>> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
>>> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
>>> an HVAC equipment supplier.
>>> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
>>> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
>>> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
>>> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
>>> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>>>
>>> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
>>> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
>>> differential expansion - no??
>>>
>>
>> I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
>> postforming?
> If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
> I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
> "formica" WAS because it was "formable"
>
I'm thinking post, after the fact, formable.
On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>>> back side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>>> different temp.
>>
>> From Formica's information on the internet at:
>> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>>
>> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
>> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
>> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
>> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
>> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
>> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
>> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
>> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
>> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
>> an HVAC equipment supplier.
>> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
>> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
>> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
>> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
>> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>>
>> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
>> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
>> differential expansion - no??
>>
>
>I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
>postforming?
If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
"formica" WAS because it was "formable"
On 11/21/2015 2:18 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my garage.
> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come out.
> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for days.
> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
Apply contact cement to the surface, of the substrate and formica, and
wait for them to dry to the touch.
Then apply ... it will straigten out.
So seriously, I doubt rolling the other way will remove the set not
without time. I think it has been that way for a while and you need heat
(hot garage summer day ) to help. You might try your attic for a while
after rolling it the other way.
If it's not ridiculous, use 1/4 or 3/8 ply to cover it while trying to
apply it, the weight of it will keep the curl down while you work your
hands underneath and apply it.
--
Jeff
On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> gray_wolf<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my
>>> garage.
>>> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come
>>> out.
>>> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for
>>> days.
>>> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>>
>>
>> Glue it down.
>
> +1
>
> Use the original (not the new waterbase and I'm presuming can still
> obtain it; been a _long_ time since I've done any laminate, like 15 yr)
> contact cement as it's stickier imo altho probably can get by otherwise.
>
> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the surface
> with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good bond and
> roll it well it should be fine.
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
I last worked with plastic laminate on an airplane model display
cabinet. The panels were 3/4" thick and covered on all 6 sides/edges
including beveled edges. There were 8 main panels and 2 posts, so 58
separate glue ups on a project about half the size of a refrigerator.
The job was very tedious.
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 11/21/2015 10:16 AM, dpb wrote:
>> Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the
>> surface with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good
>> bond and roll it well it should be fine.
>
>
> How about some cauls?<g>
In this application, the 3/4 ply _is_ a caul. Oh noes! We've
violated Electric Comet's definition of caul! Who'd have
thought a caul could be 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, and only
3/4 inch thick, with no curve!
John
On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>
>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>> back side.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>> regardless of reason.
>>>
>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>
>
>Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>different temp.
From Formica's information on the internet at:
http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
an HVAC equipment supplier.
Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
months, when dry air conditions often exist
Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
differential expansion - no??
On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>
>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>> back side.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>
>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>
>>
>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>> different temp.
>
> From Formica's information on the internet at:
> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>
> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
> an HVAC equipment supplier.
> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>
> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
> differential expansion - no??
>
I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
postforming?
On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> gray_wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my garage.
>> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come out.
>> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for days.
>> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>
>
> Glue it down.
>
I did that with one piece. It wasn't warped too bad.
I made a rig where I could hold it and place it where
it needed to go. This stuff I have left has a 8" radius
curve to it. oh well...
On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>
>>>> No it won't.
>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>
>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>> to make a curve.
>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>> from under it.
>>
>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).
>>>
> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
> back side.
>
Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
regardless of reason.
You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
material subsurface. That will warp with water.
On 11/21/2015 10:03 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> gray_wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my
>>> garage.
>>> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come
>>> out.
>>> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for
>>> days.
>>> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>>
>>
>> Glue it down.
>>
>
> I did that with one piece. It wasn't warped too bad.
> I made a rig where I could hold it and place it where
> it needed to go. This stuff I have left has a 8" radius
> curve to it. oh well...
It is a wonder that it did not break with that tight of radius if you
did not use a heat gun to wind it that tightly.
Also, wetting any plastic laminate is not going to aid in forming it.
It is water proof.
On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
> > That'll put a curve on it!<g>
> No it won't.
> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
to make a curve.
The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
from under it.
The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).
[email protected] wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>>>> back side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>>>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>>>> different temp.
>>>
>>> From Formica's information on the internet at:
>>> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>>>
>>> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
>>> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
>>> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
>>> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
>>> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
>>> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
>>> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
>>> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
>>> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
>>> an HVAC equipment supplier.
>>> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
>>> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
>>> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
>>> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
>>> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>>>
>>> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
>>> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
>>> differential expansion - no??
>>>
>>
>>I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
>>postforming?
> If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
>I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
>"formica" WAS because it was "formable"
Not even close:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_%28plastic%29
Etymology of the name
The mineral mica was commonly used at that time
for electrical insulation. Because the new product
acted as a substitute âfor micaâ, Faber used the
name âFormicaâ
On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> gray_wolf<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my garage.
>> I found out recently that there was a set in it that refused to come out.
>> I tried wetting the back and laying on my patio with weights on for days.
>> I even tried using my heat gun on. It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>
>
> Glue it down.
+1
Use the original (not the new waterbase and I'm presuming can still
obtain it; been a _long_ time since I've done any laminate, like 15 yr)
contact cement as it's stickier imo altho probably can get by otherwise.
Just to be comfortable, I'd plan on a sheet of 3/4 ply over the surface
with some weight for 24 hr afterwards altho if you get a good bond and
roll it well it should be fine.
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>
>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>> from under it.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>
>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>> back side.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>> regardless of reason.
>>
>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>
Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
different temp.
On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>
>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>> to make a curve.
>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>> from under it.
>>>
>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).
>>>>
>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>> back side.
>>
>
>
>Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>regardless of reason.
>
>You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>material subsurface. That will warp with water.
I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
gray_wolf wrote:
> On 11/21/2015 7:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> gray_wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Years ago I rolled up a 4x8 ft piece of Formica and stored it in my
>>> garage. I found out recently that there was a set in it that
>>> refused to come out. I tried wetting the back and laying on my
>>> patio with weights on for days. I even tried using my heat gun on.
>>> It didn't help a bit. Any solutions?
>>
>> Glue it down.
>>
>
> I did that with one piece. It wasn't warped too bad.
> I made a rig where I could hold it and place it where
> it needed to go. This stuff I have left has a 8" radius
> curve to it. oh well...
If what you have left is 8" long you may have a problem. If it is 8' long,
you don't.
On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>
>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>
>> No it won't.
>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>
> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
> to make a curve.
> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
> from under it.
Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>
> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the right shape of tuit).
>
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 01:25:42 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>>>>> back side.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>>>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>>>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>>>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>>>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>>>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>>>>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>>>>> different temp.
>>>>
>>>> From Formica's information on the internet at:
>>>> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
>>>> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
>>>> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
>>>> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
>>>> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
>>>> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
>>>> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
>>>> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
>>>> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
>>>> an HVAC equipment supplier.
>>>> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
>>>> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
>>>> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
>>>> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
>>>> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>>>>
>>>> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
>>>> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
>>>> differential expansion - no??
>>>>
>>>
>>>I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
>>>postforming?
>> If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
>>I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
>>"formica" WAS because it was "formable"
>
>Not even close:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_%28plastic%29
>
>Etymology of the name
>The mineral mica was commonly used at that time
>for electrical insulation. Because the new product
>acted as a substitute for mica, Faber used the
>name Formica
Regardless, on the Formica site it indicates all of their high
pressure laminate products are postformable.
I had heard it was named Formica because unlike mineral mica
insulation, it was "formable" mica insulation.. Looks like I was
probably misinformed on that count.
My assertion that it was a melamine resin finish is however supported.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:07:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/24/2015 7:05 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:52:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/24/2015 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:38:26 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:11:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2015 1:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:16:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2015 1:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:47:42 AM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2015 12:09 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No problem, just leave it out on your deck through a rainstorm or two.
>>>>>>>>>>>> That'll put a curve on it!<g>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No it won't.
>>>>>>>>>>> Formica is a plastic laminate. It's not wood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, that's half-true. It's phenolic plastic lamination from plies of
>>>>>>>>>> paper and resin. So, in a period of months, the water content
>>>>>>>>>> might migrate inside the wood-fiber-paper material, and swell some of the fibers
>>>>>>>>>> to make a curve.
>>>>>>>>>> The 'glue it to something flat' solution will work fine, and a few years
>>>>>>>>>> of staying flat will keep it that shape, even if termites eat the substrate
>>>>>>>>>> from under it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah if the laminate absorbs water, for what every reason, you should
>>>>>>>>> throw it away. If it absorbs water it is worthless.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The strongest phenolic plastics are laminated with linen cloth instead of paper.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of using that for building a plane (also requires the
>>>>>>>>>> right shape of tuit).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The back side of Formica (or any other brand of "laminate" contertop
>>>>>>>> material) WILL absorb water, and it WILL warp towards the finished
>>>>>>>> side if left in a high humidity environment for a prolonged period of
>>>>>>>> time. The melamine top surface is virtually impermeable - not so the
>>>>>>>> back side.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, the back side of the laminate is textured to add more bite and
>>>>>>> that may appear to absorb water but it will not penetrate. If that were
>>>>>>> the case, water based adhesives would do work well with plastic
>>>>>>> laminates. FWIW I have worked with plastic laminates for a very long
>>>>>>> time and have never ever witnessed it warping toward the finished side
>>>>>>> regardless of reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mention melamine, is typically not sold a plastic laminate by itself
>>>>>>> unless buying trims strips. It is most always bought with a thick wood
>>>>>>> material subsurface. That will warp with water.
>>>>>> I have several pieces of Arborite - same thing as Formica - that is
>>>>>> curled akmost into a "C" shape from sitting out in the weather. It
>>>>>> came off of the manufactured lumber backing it had been fastened to
>>>>>> sitting out behind the shop, and it is now curled pretty badly. Was on
>>>>>> a cheam'n'nasty pallet)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure where you are going with that but like plywood the sides will
>>>>> expand and contract at different rates if one side is exposed to a
>>>>> different temp.
>>>>
>>>> From Formica's information on the internet at:
>>>> http://www.formica.com/ca/~/media/north-america/documents/products/en/shared/ftb_0836_tb_laminate_postforming_en.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Postforming grade laminate is hygroscopic; that is, it is capable
>>>> of losing or absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore,
>>>> if it is exposed to dry air conditions, a loss of moisture can
>>>> result that adversely affects its postforming properties. To assure
>>>> proper postforming performance, Formica® Brand postforming
>>>> grade laminate should be preconditioned prior to use for at least
>>>> 48 hours at 70°F (21°C) and 50% relative humidity. Small shop
>>>> areas can be economically humidified with portable humidifier
>>>> units. Larger areas may require specific recommendations from
>>>> an HVAC equipment supplier.
>>>> Remember, when seasonal changes approach, preconditioning
>>>> practices should be observed to maintain consistent postforming
>>>> conditions inside the shop, regardless of the atmospheric
>>>> conditions outside. This is especially important during winter
>>>> months, when dry air conditions often exist
>>>>
>>>> Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. If it is hygroscopic and
>>>> absorbs moisture it only stands to reason that it could warb prom
>>>> differential expansion - no??
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suppose anything is possible. But is all plastic laminate considered
>>> postforming?
>> If it can be used for things that are not flat, it is postformable.
>> I imagine there is non postformable formica - but the "form" in
>> "formica" WAS because it was "formable"
>>
>
>I'm thinking post, after the fact, formable.
PostFormable laminate is flat laminate sheets that can be "post
formed" into things like countertops with the anti-drip round edge,
and the low back-splash like found on most kitchen and bath
countertops, among many other things.. It is heathed and formed to
shape and glued to a (usually manufactured lumber) substrrate.