As if the $799 uni and the $223 incra fence wern't enough, I decided to
get the dust collector. The one on sale is 4800cfm and 5hp compared to
my current 1100cfm and 2hp. So four times the suck, if you can
quantify such a thing. :cool:
The new one has a 10" inlet port with a manifold (is that what it's
called? reducer?) that brings it down to four 5" ports. So I have
several options:
1 - I could run 10" ducts to all the machines, get 10" blast gates and
covert all the DC hookups to 10" (haha)
2 - I could use the 5" reducer thingy and keep three of them plugged.
Then run the fourth with 5" blast gates to each machine. I would then
need to either reduce the 5" hoses further with an adapter or make/buy
adapters on the machines that work with 5" hoses.
3 - Immediately reduce the 5" ports to 4" and run 4" hoses with 4"
blast gates everywhere. This is the cheapest since I have a lot of 4"
flex hose and 4" s&d pipe.
4 - Run 5" or 4" with a reducer to each machine and quit worrying about
blast gates.
5 - Find a 10" to 6" reducer and run 6" pipe/hose to all the machines
with 6" blast gates. This seems like the option that makes the most
sense to me.
More points: I'm unlikely to ever run more than one machine at a time.
But in the future, say over the next five years, my older kids could
easily start woodworking, so the extra capacity could be nice. Also,
the DC runs are likely to be short since I'm going for the centralized
DC shop layout with machines orbiting rather than running DC pipe along
the walls to a DC in the corner.
And lastly, what do I do with my old DC machine? I'll probably sell it
and use the money to buy 6" (or whatever) hose, clamps, and blast
gates. Any reason to have two?
Here's my old one:
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-50-850-Horsepower-Vertical-Collector/dp/B0000223BE
brian
round lake, about 15 minutes west of vernon hills.
brian
Markem (sixoneeight) wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2007 15:46:07 -0800, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >And lastly, what do I do with my old DC machine? I'll probably sell it
> >and use the money to buy 6" (or whatever) hose, clamps, and blast
> >gates. Any reason to have two?
>
> Are you in the Chicago area?
>
> Mark
> (sixoneeight) = 618
brianlanning wrote:
> As if the $799 uni and the $223 incra fence wern't enough, I decided to
> get the dust collector. The one on sale is 4800cfm and 5hp compared to
> my current 1100cfm and 2hp. So four times the suck, if you can
> quantify such a thing. :cool:
>
> The new one has a 10" inlet port with a manifold (is that what it's
> called? reducer?) that brings it down to four 5" ports. So I have
> several options:
>
> 1 - I could run 10" ducts to all the machines, get 10" blast gates and
> covert all the DC hookups to 10" (haha)
>
> 2 - I could use the 5" reducer thingy and keep three of them plugged.
> Then run the fourth with 5" blast gates to each machine. I would then
> need to either reduce the 5" hoses further with an adapter or make/buy
> adapters on the machines that work with 5" hoses.
>
> 3 - Immediately reduce the 5" ports to 4" and run 4" hoses with 4"
> blast gates everywhere. This is the cheapest since I have a lot of 4"
> flex hose and 4" s&d pipe.
>
> 4 - Run 5" or 4" with a reducer to each machine and quit worrying about
> blast gates.
>
> 5 - Find a 10" to 6" reducer and run 6" pipe/hose to all the machines
> with 6" blast gates. This seems like the option that makes the most
> sense to me.
>
> More points: I'm unlikely to ever run more than one machine at a time.
> But in the future, say over the next five years, my older kids could
> easily start woodworking, so the extra capacity could be nice. Also,
> the DC runs are likely to be short since I'm going for the centralized
> DC shop layout with machines orbiting rather than running DC pipe along
> the walls to a DC in the corner.
>
> And lastly, what do I do with my old DC machine? I'll probably sell it
> and use the money to buy 6" (or whatever) hose, clamps, and blast
> gates. Any reason to have two?
>
> Here's my old one:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Delta-50-850-Horsepower-Vertical-Collector/dp/B0000223BE
>
>
>
> brian Well, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 4800cfm...droool... Tom
tom wrote:
>Well, if it's
worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 4800cfm...droool... Tom
I know. It's ridiculous. The one I'm replacing is 1100cfm. I had
been planning to eventually get a cyclone with around 2000cfm, but this
one was such a great deal, I had to jump on it. I'm trying to figure
out how to get a cyclone hooked up to this. My trashcan separator
isn't enough.
The next tool on the list was actually a drum sander before the latest
amazon silliness. I was thinking about the grizzly g0449, but the 4
dust ports on the top made me worry about dust collection. The manual
says 1600cfm at the sander is minimum and 2000 is recommended. I guess
that's not a problem now. :-)
I'll probably just end up with a performax 22/44 and spend the extra
money on a spindle sander and edge sander. the big sander is calling
my name though. :-)
If I get the $250 I'm asking for my old DC with all the 4" accessories,
I'll be out $420 for this monster.
brian
brianlanning wrote:
snip> If I get the $250 I'm asking for my old DC with all the 4"
accessories,
> I'll be out $420 for this monster.
>
> brian Plus the cost of new ductwork, of course. Having the DC in a central spot might be helpful in the suction department, but I wonder: It seems that with something this big, you could stash it a couple of city blocks away, run large diameter ducting and still clean up! I'm kind of doing the same thing with a shop-built air cleaner. Ever see that video of the airman getting sucked into that fighter jets' turbofan? Tom
tom wrote:
> brianlanning wrote:
>Plus the cost of new ductwork, of course.
You're right. It looks like I'll be running 6" ductwork to the
machines. the 6" s&d is the easy part. I need a source for reasonably
priced blast gates and flex tube. Someone on sawmill creek pointed out
that with all the blast gates shut, I may not have enough velocity in
the hose to keep the dust suspended. I guess I'll have to experiment a
bit.
>Having the DC in a central spot might be helpful in the suction
>department,
This was originally part of my reasoning for going that route. I was
planning to make a post, maybe 1' or 2' square that runs floor to
ceiling and park the DC and compressor next to that, then put all the
machines around it. That would give me an easy place to attach the
subpanel and 220 outlets. It could also serve as a DC distrubution
area with 6 or 8 blast gates mounted right there coming through the
post with one hookup at the bottom for the DC. I could then get one of
those GUV shopvacs and attach it to the outside of the post, or better
yet, inside. Then when it's time to move, just take the post.
I'll have to give it more thought now.
>but I wonder: It seems that with something this big, you could stash it a couple of city blocks away,
>run large diameter ducting and still clean up! I'm kind of doing the same thing with a shop-built air cleaner.
It shouldn't matter where I put it now. I could put it in the
basement, but there's no way to get the ductwork into the garage. If I
were going to be here permanently the DC and compressor would certainly
be down there.
>Ever
>see that video of the airman getting sucked into that fighter jets' turbofan? Tom
lol, yeah, I saw it. I can't believe the guy lived. I'm still
squeemish from the miter saw stand incident. The last thing I need is
to get sucked into an impeller now. :-)
brian
Pat Barber wrote:
> You did not say which unit you ended up with but
> you could use this cyclone:
>
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280069380307QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's a delta 50-765. I'm shopping for something exactly like that one.
I'd prefer a model with some flex hose at the bottom so the lid can
come off the trashcan without having to lift the entire thing. I guess
I could put it in there myself.
I found this:
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/
The kids would love this too because you can see the swirling dust
inside the cyclone. Their prices seem a bit high. Maybe they can make
me a deal.
brian
brianlanning wrote:
snip- Someone on sawmill creek pointed out
that with all the blast gates shut, I may not have enough velocity in
the hose to keep the dust suspended.-snip
I'm pretty dense, but I don't understand
why someone would make that statement. When you close all the blast
gates, of course the velocity will drop, but then you're not using the
DC either, so no dust to suspend. Hey, with all the gates shut, this
DC would probably crush most metal ducting. Any idea how many inches of
mercury this thing'll pull? Tom
tom wrote:
> I'm pretty dense, but I don't understand
> why someone would make that statement. When you close all the blast
> gates, of course the velocity will drop, but then you're not using the
> DC either, so no dust to suspend. Hey, with all the gates shut, this
> DC would probably crush most metal ducting. Any idea how many inches of
> mercury this thing'll pull? Tom
I mean all but the one I'm using. He was saying that if you have a 10"
trunk line, then drop a 4" line to a machine, and all the other 4"
drops are closed, then when that 4" air gets to the 10" trunk, it slows
down. When it slows down, the sawdust can drop out of the air and fill
the tube. I guess if it's a problem, just leave them all open. :-)
brian
David Merrill wrote:
> Previous post on this subject. Sorry, the naval facility link seems to be
> dead.
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/84e03d3d1fcbd882/eee981e40e54cc76?lnk=st&q=dust+naval+%22david+merrill%22+group%3Arec.woodworking&rnum=1&hl=en#eee981e40e54cc76
Yeah, that's what I was hearing. I'm not so worried about the fire
hazzard. I mean it's either a fire in the duct or a fire in the pile
of sawdust at the end, right? Besides, I really doubt you could start
a fire with a dull blade and burned cherry. Now if you it a nail in
the wood, that could cause problems.
For now, I'm planning to put a 10" to 6" reducer on it and run 6" flex
hose 6' to 10' to each machine. I doubt I'll have problems with this
until I get in my permanent shop and hide the DC in a separate room.
brian
Greg O wrote:
> That would be my thoughts. Why do you need blast gates when he DC is sized
> that large?! Run an adequately sized main, with 4" drops to each machine,
> and let'r rip!
Originally, I had my 1100cfm (what that it? I can't remember) DC
running through a lot of 4" s&d and flex hose, then into my router
table which was in my table saw, which had a 4" opening on the same
hose. I couldn't close one and open the other. This scenario kind of
worked well enough, but left some dust in both machines. And I wanted
to add a 4" hose to the top of the machines to plug into the router
fence and an as yet non-existant over arm blade guard. From the
existing performance, I knew it wouldn't work. Had I rolled the DC up
to the table saw and put in blast gates, it would have been doable.
Now, I guess it's best if I just leave them all open. Of course, now I
need to break down my existing table saw cabinet which I made since
I'll be getting the new cabinet saw tomorrow. I'll need to design a
new dust collection setup for both saws, the router, and the spindle
sander, all in one cast iron top. :-)
brian
David Merrill wrote:
> You missed the point; you might want to read the last paragraph in my linked
> post again. "Moral ? Run with enough ducts open to prevent fallout in a
> larger main run"
My point was that I won't have a larger main run. And when I move in a
couple years, I'll address the issue then.
> Now, as to concerns about fire:
> - Are you running a commercial shop with employee safety/liability
> concerns?
> - If a hobbyist, do you have family sleeping upstairs or in adjoining
> structure?
> - Note that my post references at least one documented instance of a
> fire.
> - You know how to moniter and deal with the pile of sawdust at the end;
> it's the unsuspected and out-of-sight accumulation in the ducting that is
> less obvious.
Fire is fire. I think I would be just as screwed either way. I have a
fire extinguisher in the shop. But a fire inside the DC or the pipes
might pose a problem. Maybe I should think about clear ducts so it's
obvious if there's buildup. For now, I'll probably use clear flex
hose.
> I don't think we're in any disagreement here as you already indicated a
> knowledge of the significance of maintaining sufficient flow in your larger
> main ducts. I just wanted you to know that the concerns are apparently
> real.
Just like DC dust explosions from not grounding plastic pipe? ;-)
I bet they sucked up a glowing chunk of metal. Finding that after the
fire would be a needle in a haystack. That's not to say that I
couldn't just as easily suck up a glowing chunk of metal.
brian
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> tom wrote:
>> I'm pretty dense, but I don't understand
>> why someone would make that statement. When you close all the blast
>> gates, of course the velocity will drop, but then you're not using the
>> DC either, so no dust to suspend. Hey, with all the gates shut, this
>> DC would probably crush most metal ducting. Any idea how many inches of
>> mercury this thing'll pull? Tom
>
> I mean all but the one I'm using. He was saying that if you have a 10"
> trunk line, then drop a 4" line to a machine, and all the other 4"
> drops are closed, then when that 4" air gets to the 10" trunk, it slows
> down. When it slows down, the sawdust can drop out of the air and fill
> the tube. I guess if it's a problem, just leave them all open. :-)
>
> brian
>
That would be my thoughts. Why do you need blast gates when he DC is sized
that large?! Run an adequately sized main, with 4" drops to each machine,
and let'r rip!
Greg
On 14 Jan 2007 15:46:07 -0800, "brianlanning" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>And lastly, what do I do with my old DC machine? I'll probably sell it
>and use the money to buy 6" (or whatever) hose, clamps, and blast
>gates. Any reason to have two?
Are you in the Chicago area?
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
Previous post on this subject. Sorry, the naval facility link seems to be
dead.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/84e03d3d1fcbd882/eee981e40e54cc76?lnk=st&q=dust+naval+%22david+merrill%22+group%3Arec.woodworking&rnum=1&hl=en#eee981e40e54cc76
David Merrill
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> tom wrote:
> > I'm pretty dense, but I don't understand
> > why someone would make that statement. When you close all the blast
> > gates, of course the velocity will drop, but then you're not using the
> > DC either, so no dust to suspend. Hey, with all the gates shut, this
> > DC would probably crush most metal ducting. Any idea how many inches of
> > mercury this thing'll pull? Tom
>
> I mean all but the one I'm using. He was saying that if you have a 10"
> trunk line, then drop a 4" line to a machine, and all the other 4"
> drops are closed, then when that 4" air gets to the 10" trunk, it slows
> down. When it slows down, the sawdust can drop out of the air and fill
> the tube. I guess if it's a problem, just leave them all open. :-)
>
> brian
>
You missed the point; you might want to read the last paragraph in my linked
post again. "Moral ? Run with enough ducts open to prevent fallout in a
larger main run"
Now, as to concerns about fire:
- Are you running a commercial shop with employee safety/liability
concerns?
- If a hobbyist, do you have family sleeping upstairs or in adjoining
structure?
- Note that my post references at least one documented instance of a
fire.
- You know how to moniter and deal with the pile of sawdust at the end;
it's the unsuspected and out-of-sight accumulation in the ducting that is
less obvious.
I don't think we're in any disagreement here as you already indicated a
knowledge of the significance of maintaining sufficient flow in your larger
main ducts. I just wanted you to know that the concerns are apparently
real.
David Merrill
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Merrill wrote:
> > Previous post on this subject. Sorry, the naval facility link seems to
be
> > dead.
> >
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/84e03d3d1fcbd882/eee981e40e54cc76?lnk=st&q=dust+naval+%22david+merrill%22+group%3Arec.woodworking&rnum=1&hl=en#eee981e40e54cc76
>
> Yeah, that's what I was hearing. I'm not so worried about the fire
> hazzard. I mean it's either a fire in the duct or a fire in the pile
> of sawdust at the end, right? Besides, I really doubt you could start
> a fire with a dull blade and burned cherry. Now if you it a nail in
> the wood, that could cause problems.
>
> For now, I'm planning to put a 10" to 6" reducer on it and run 6" flex
> hose 6' to 10' to each machine. I doubt I'll have problems with this
> until I get in my permanent shop and hide the DC in a separate room.
>
> brian
>
You did not say which unit you ended up with but
you could use this cyclone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280069380307QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
brianlanning wrote:
> tom wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Well, if it's
> worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 4800cfm...droool... Tom
>
> I know. It's ridiculous. The one I'm replacing is 1100cfm. I had
> been planning to eventually get a cyclone with around 2000cfm, but this
> one was such a great deal, I had to jump on it. I'm trying to figure
> out how to get a cyclone hooked up to this. My trashcan separator
> isn't enough.
>
> The next tool on the list was actually a drum sander before the latest
> amazon silliness. I was thinking about the grizzly g0449, but the 4
> dust ports on the top made me worry about dust collection. The manual
> says 1600cfm at the sander is minimum and 2000 is recommended. I guess
> that's not a problem now. :-)
>
> I'll probably just end up with a performax 22/44 and spend the extra
> money on a spindle sander and edge sander. the big sander is calling
> my name though. :-)
>
> If I get the $250 I'm asking for my old DC with all the 4" accessories,
> I'll be out $420 for this monster.
>
> brian
>
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As if the $799 uni and the $223 incra fence wern't enough, I decided to
> get the dust collector. The one on sale is 4800cfm and 5hp compared to
> my current 1100cfm and 2hp. So four times the suck, if you can
> quantify such a thing. :cool:
>
I thought about buying the DC, but decided I really wanted a cyclone.
But I checked with Wynn, and they say their filter kit fits perfectly.