For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of price
settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping). Checking
these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128 megs
of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in the
12" range.
Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten good value
from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150 models, with Pentium
IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40 gig hard drive, 14+" screen,
CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP loaded. Prices start at about $825.
Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there hoping
to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard drive
that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
Amazing.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
I'm using a compaq I bought new at Xmas time on a "special" sale that
was $700 after rebates at my local CompUSA. 15" screen, 30gig HD,
DVD/CD-R, etc, etc. Maybe you need to look around some more, wait for
sales, etc.
Also, go to the stores to check out prices, they don't always advertise
the low end machines.
John
> I've got time yet. Helluva lot more of that than money. I don't need the
> machine this year, even, but need to have it ready to go about February or
> March.
Then perhaps you may want to wait a bit. The same money six months down the
road will buy you a lot more computer than you'll get today plus there will
be a lot more used equipment on the market right after Christmas.
mp responds:
>> I've got time yet. Helluva lot more of that than money. I don't need the
>> machine this year, even, but need to have it ready to go about February or
>> March.
>
>Then perhaps you may want to wait a bit. The same money six months down the
>road will buy you a lot more computer than you'll get today plus there will
>be a lot more used equipment on the market right after Christmas.
Now, I hadn't thought of the the after-Christmas increase. That's a good idea.
Thanks.
Charlie Self
"Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and
hurry off as if nothing happened." Sir Winston Churchill
JohnT writes:
>I'm using a compaq I bought new at Xmas time on a "special" sale that
>was $700 after rebates at my local CompUSA. 15" screen, 30gig HD,
>DVD/CD-R, etc, etc. Maybe you need to look around some more, wait for
>sales, etc.
I've got time yet. Helluva lot more of that than money. I don't need the
machine this year, even, but need to have it ready to go about February or
March.
I don't need a 15" screen, either, which is why I'm looking at used laptops,
but there's no way I'm paying 65% of new prices for a machine that has to be 3
years old. And that seems to be what a great many of the used sellers are
asking.
As I said, I haven't had time to check locally, but I'm positive that within a
dozen miles, there's only one such store (there's one in Bedford and it's a
dozen miles from my house to there).
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Don't think too long about the PDA. Resolution isn't there. Wife keeps her
photo gallery of grandkids and such on hers, but it's nothing like throwing
the camera memory into the PCMCIA slot, then having 1024x768 and Photoshop
to play with.
Those "return from lease" computers are pretty common, and some are
up-to-date enough. Got a ThinkPad Celeron for $360 from a local college kid
which takes care of photo business, internet browsing, and lesson planning.
Check with a local laptop university for December graduations, they offer to
the holders (who have already paid for them) at an attractive price, but not
all take advantage of it. Daughter bought an $899 new Dell, which works not
one bit faster at common tasks than mine.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've got time yet. Helluva lot more of that than money. I don't need the
> machine this year, even, but need to have it ready to go about February or
> March.
>
> I don't need a 15" screen, either, which is why I'm looking at used
laptops,
> but there's no way I'm paying 65% of new prices for a machine that has to
be 3
> years old. And that seems to be what a great many of the used sellers are
> asking.
>
> As I said, I haven't had time to check locally, but I'm positive that
within a
> dozen miles, there's only one such store (there's one in Bedford and it's
a
> dozen miles from my house to there).
>
>
Charlie Self wrote:
> JohnT writes:
>
>>I'm using a compaq I bought new at Xmas time on a "special" sale that
>>was $700 after rebates at my local CompUSA. 15" screen, 30gig HD,
>>DVD/CD-R, etc, etc. Maybe you need to look around some more, wait for
>>sales, etc.
>
> I've got time yet. Helluva lot more of that than money. I don't need the
> machine this year, even, but need to have it ready to go about February or
> March.
>
> I don't need a 15" screen, either, which is why I'm looking at used
> laptops, but there's no way I'm paying 65% of new prices for a machine
> that has to be 3 years old. And that seems to be what a great many of the
> used sellers are asking.
>
> As I said, I haven't had time to check locally, but I'm positive that
> within a dozen miles, there's only one such store (there's one in Bedford
> and it's a dozen miles from my house to there).
Charlie, if that Bedford is Bedford, MA and you're driving something that
doesn't burn up a hundred bucks worth of gas on the trip to Hartford you
might want to go by Kaplan Computers <http://www.kaplancomputers.com/>. He
always has used notebooks in stock ranging from dirt cheap and pretty old
on up, and usually has several Thinkpads. Not as cheap as the best ebay
prices but not bad. Nice thing about Kaplan is that you can see what
you're getting before you buy.
One thing to watch for with used laptops though, is the battery--if you
can't test before you buy then just assume that you're going to have to
replace it--that adds 200 bucks or so to the price. Another is the
drivers--if it comes with a wiped disk and no recovery disk (usually the
case) then you're going to need the device drivers to get it up and fully
functional--IBM has drivers for some rather ancient machines up on their
site--you can generally count on being able to get drivers for every
operating system that was ever supported on that machine.
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities
> he excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of
price
> settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping).
Checking
> these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128
megs
> of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in
the
> 12" range.
A lot of the used notebooks for sale are refurbished off-lease units,
usually 2 or 3 years old. My company (reluctantly) sells these from time to
time, but at prices 1/3 to 1/2 less than you've quoted. I don't know how
much shopping around you've done but you should be able to do much better.
One thing to keep in mind is that used notebooks typically come with a 30 or
90 only warranty, and a battery that is near the end of it's lifecycle. If
you have the need for more than a half hour or so of battery run time you'll
need to spend a couple of bills on a replacement battery, which may be tough
to source.
With new notebooks so cheap these days it doesn't make much sense to buy
used unless you can get an exceptional deal. Even then, when you add up the
cost of a replacement battery and larger hard drive, you're in the ballpark
of a new unit anyway (which gives you a bigger screen, much faster processor
and graphics, more ram, better battery life, and a longer warranty).
mp writes:
>
>Posted a suggestion for you at A.B.P.W. Look for "OT- Portable computer idea
>for CS"
Sorry. I dropped ABPW long ago because AOL tends to drop 85% of the pix.
Charlie Self
"Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and
hurry off as if nothing happened." Sir Winston Churchill
Charlie Self wrote:
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need
> for a method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of
> price settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping).
> Checking these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs,
> max of 128 megs of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD
> readers, screens in the 12" range.
>
> Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten good
> value from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150 models, with
> Pentium IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40 gig hard drive,
> 14+" screen, CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP loaded. Prices
> start at about $825.
>
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there
> hoping to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a
> hard drive that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster
> CPU and a burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
>
> Amazing.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities
> he excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Everyone wants a laptop. I have computers that I can't even give away but
everyone wants to know when I'm getting a new laptop, there is a wait list
to last longer than my lifetime of people wanting me old ones.
Be very careful of the Dell 1150 (and maybe others) it has a desktop cpu.
My wife bought one and it runs _HOT_. Just sitting on a desk with the
screen blank the cpu fan will turn on off every few minutes. Pick up the
machine and both cpu fans crank up to full speed shopvac sound level. Its
a 2.4GHz machine and with the software load from Dell it ran slower than my
1GHz latitude. I reloaded XP clean on it and its better but still not as
fast as it should be. Some of these new cheap laptops are really a rip
off, they throw in a fast cpu and huge screen so you have to have a big
battery and loose the benefit of portability, but they give it a slow hard
disk, slow system bus, slow memory, etc so you loose the benefit of the
fast cpu and bug screen. If you want a decent one look for a Latitude,
sign in the small business store and if they ask what the business is your
an "independent contractor". You will pay the same price buy won't get all
the "free" software included so instead you get a better quality system.
The computer makers work the same as tool makers, I paid the same for my
crapsman router as my PC router, but I got a bunch of accessories with the
crapsman and have to buy all the accessories for my PC. But the PC will do
a much better job and outlast the crapsman which I wore out in a short
time.
Charlie Self wrote:
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
WalMart has recently started selling laptops. I haven't looked at them but the
price sounds good. See:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3163026
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Han wrote:
>
> I think the screen of a simple laptop is half or more of the cost. Dell
> by virtue (<grin> of their size gets a good price on their screens (and
> they are good screens). You have to watch out for all the crap that gets
> loaded onto Dell computers at the factory, though. IMO, it is not a bad
> idea to wipe the drive and start from scratch (YMMV).
>
> Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, it is almost
> as mobile for an occasional trip in your car, and MUCH cheaper for the
> features.
My company bought me a Dell laptop for some special work needs and let
me pick from a list. Generally laptop LCDs suck, especially the bigger
ones. Anyhoo, after seeing/using some of the 15" powerbooks I had
thought laptop LCDs had finally become perfected. I ordered the best LCD
option Dell had (was going to run X86 Linux so I couldn't get a
powerbook). The thing is terrible! Sitting directly in from of the
screen (a 15"), the edges are very dark. Move my head to brighten up the
view of the edge and the other edge goes black. Same effect on other
Dell laptops in the building, 'cept everyone accepts this as normal.
Back to Charlie's question, have you considered a PDA? IF you really
just need a bigger screen to see camera photos, some of these PDA's will
work fine (test them before buying). Another option would be a small LCD
for a computer or even a small color TV set. Many cameras have NTSC
video out that can directly drive the "video" inputs on TV's and
properly equipped LCD displays.
-BR
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patrick conroy wrote:
>
> By the way, this question popped into my head a few years ago: Is there any
> other product, besides computers, where the price decline is a rapid when
> there's no degradation in performance?
Hookers?
>
> For example - my 33MHz 486 box still performs as well as it did the day I
> bought it. Yet, it went from $3000 in 1992 to effectively zero several years
> later. Any other product in the history of economics have a similar
> profile?
>
>
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[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of price
> settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping).
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there hoping
> to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard drive
> that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
> burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
Yeah, but did you ever tried to work on a desktop on a plane. Smaller
means better technology, which means more $$$$$$$.
Chuck
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote :
...
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there hoping
> to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard drive
> that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
> burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
>
> Amazing.
Hi Charlie,
The big companies are taking profits on the chin in the short run, in
an effort to drive the competition out of business. It is pretty
brutal between Dell, HP, and Gateway.
The little guys just can't compete that way; they don't have the
supply chain or volume leverage and they can't afford to take the
short term loss.
Cheers,
Nate
Charlie,
You might want to consider using a TV instead. My sony camera outputs
to a TV using a 3.5" walkman type plug on one end and RCA plugs on the
other. Check your manual, you might be able to do the same.
Jay
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of price
> settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping). Checking
> these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128 megs
> of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in the
> 12" range.
>
> Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten good value
> from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150 models, with Pentium
> IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40 gig hard drive, 14+" screen,
> CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP loaded. Prices start at about $825.
>
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there hoping
> to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard drive
> that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
> burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
>
> Amazing.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
> excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
In article <[email protected]>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
>method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
>So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of price
>settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping). Checking
>these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128 megs
>of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in the
>12" range.
>
>Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten good value
>from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150 models, with Pentium
>IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40 gig hard drive, 14+" screen,
>CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP loaded. Prices start at about $825.
>
>Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there hoping
>to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard drive
>that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
>burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
>
>Amazing.
>
>Charlie Self
>"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
>excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
My daughter wanted a laptop for her last birthday. At 8 years old I
couldn't see spending big bucks so I checked the used market. I
found an IBM Thinkpad PII/233 with modem, CDROM, & floppy, 8GB, for
around $250 including shipping. The only problem is the included battery
was weak, lasting only about 1/2 hour. I can't remember the name of
the company I bought it from offhand, but I found it after a short
amount of web searching.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
"Clif" wrote in message
> The reason used laptops go for that price is that people generally paid
> double for them and they dont realize or dont want to realize that what
they
> paid $1500 for, or even $800 as recently as 6 months ago, is no longer
worth
> that price.
Nope, the reason they are that price is that shitheads will "win" them on
eBay for that price.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
Swing responds:
>"Clif" wrote in message
>> The reason used laptops go for that price is that people generally paid
>> double for them and they dont realize or dont want to realize that what
>they
>> paid $1500 for, or even $800 as recently as 6 months ago, is no longer
>worth
>> that price.
>
>Nope, the reason they are that price is that shitheads will "win" them on
>eBay for that price.
True. Has anyone ever figured out WTF is going on with "winning" something you
pay for? And often pay an inflated price for, to boot. I wonder if many of
these people do their homework before giggling at the 'great deal' and firing
off a CC number.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> True. Has anyone ever figured out WTF is going on with "winning" something
> you
> pay for?
ROTFLMAO... No kidding,,, I must be real lucky as I have won monthly bills
and yearly taxes.
Charlie ...
eBay generally has hundreds (at least) of used laptops, some over-priced but
many pretty reasonable. Last year I needed a cheap laptop for off-site
audio recording. I found a used NEC laptop with a 6.4 GIG HD, 10+ inch
display, CD drive and USB port. It's only a 233MHz Pentium II but it cost
me only $233 and it serves my purposes just fine. I have also used it to
transfer and view pictures from my digital camera, although that is not why
I originally bought it.
Here's the search parameter I used:
http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an IBM
Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
Lee Gordon writes:
>eBay generally has hundreds (at least) of used laptops, some over-priced but
>many pretty reasonable. Last year I needed a cheap laptop for off-site
>audio recording. I found a used NEC laptop with a 6.4 GIG HD, 10+ inch
>display, CD drive and USB port. It's only a 233MHz Pentium II but it cost
>me only $233 and it serves my purposes just fine. I have also used it to
>transfer and view pictures from my digital camera, although that is not why
>I originally bought it.
>Here's the search parameter I used:
>http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
>
>Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an IBM
>Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
>$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
>I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
>
Or close to sufficiently cheap. I'll check it out, and thanks.
Charlie Self
"Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and
hurry off as if nothing happened." Sir Winston Churchill
Lee Gordon writes:
>I originally bought it.
>Here's the search parameter I used:
>http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
>
>Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an IBM
>Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
>$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
>I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made to
support USB. I think I tossed my ME CD a week or two ago. Worst OS I ever
tried, including Mac OS 8.
Wish I had time this afternoon to pop into town and see what they've got there.
I've got some stuff that might actually make a decent one-to-one swap for a
$600 or $800 laptop.
Charlie Self
"Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and
hurry off as if nothing happened." Sir Winston Churchill
[email protected] (Charlie Self) writes:
>Lee Gordon writes:
>>eBay generally has hundreds (at least) of used laptops, some over-priced but
>>many pretty reasonable. Last year I needed a cheap laptop for off-site
>Or close to sufficiently cheap. I'll check it out, and thanks.
I'll second ebay...
I managed to pick up a PIII-400 4.3 gig dell latitude for < $300.
I already had an identical system (except hd = 20gig) and wanted a
backup. ;)
I decided to install netbsd on it and it's become my primary machine.
I just wish i could get my card reader to read my CF cards. :(
Good luck charlie!
--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I know, it's a slippery slope - you have a target figure for dollars
> to be spent - get over it. It is way past time that everyone switched
> to laptops as their main computer - if you don't bite the bullet now -
> you will bite it bigtime in the future.
>
I will point out that unless things have changed, a lot of the laptops
have difficulty running anything but Windows. Not a problem for most,
but if you think you might ever want to run Linux, FreeBSD, etc., be
sure you investigate compatibility before you buy - ask the Linux, etc.
folks, not the salesman :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
Shazzamm!
I went away for a couple of weeks and all kinds of cool stuff started
happening.
You're threatened with a suit from an anonymous asshole - who really
isn't all that anonymous.
Peoples is telling you to buy a PDA to view photos with - as though a
three inch screen is demonstrably better than a two inch screen.
Some peoples is encouraging you to buy a used laptop for the same
money as a new laptop - because it was better in it's day.
Golly - I do love the Wreck.
I'd go for that low end Dell and add in a few treats.
Pay for the DVD burner, which is cheap as shit if'n you buy it up
front and allows you to burn 4.5 gb worth of stuff. Get that extra
memory when Dell is running the special on it. Otherwise, buy the
aftermarket. It's all about dollars per byte.
Akshully, if'n it were me, I'd position myself to eliminate the
desktop and spend about two grand on the laptop. Keep the screen you
have, if'n it can be color corrected. Get yaself a nice port
replicator and you can keep using the keyboard that you like and the
mouse that you like - and you will have two screens to work on - which
can be a great help. The existing desktop will make a nice storage
device - IDE drives are cheap as dirt right now.
I work with two screens and would never go back.
There is one word of counsel that I would give to you -
"Bidness"
Do not buy on the Home/Home Office side of the Dell website. If you
do, you will be relegated to non-english-speaking-peoples as your
resource for customer service/tech support.
The "Bidness" side of the Dell website will kick you right into the
section where you will deal with Americans who don't speak English -
you will be better off - because you will be used to that.
I know, it's a slippery slope - you have a target figure for dollars
to be spent - get over it. It is way past time that everyone switched
to laptops as their main computer - if you don't bite the bullet now -
you will bite it bigtime in the future.
I think that you could make a good argument for giving your current
desktop to a deserving family member - thus giving them somewhat
current technology whilst propelling yaself into both currency and
beyond.
A couple of caveats - if you buy 512mb ram, make sure it is all on one
chip - it will cost you more but your upgrade path will be better
(same goes for 1gb - I wouldn't buy a box with less than a two gb
potential).
Second - get a video card that is twice as nice as the best that you
could forsee needing (DAMHIKT).
Thirdly (I lied) get a bigass hard drive and make it spin at 7200 -
you won't regret it.
I bought most of the above from Dell for $1750.00 American and I like
it a lot.
YMMV.
yippeee!
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
In article <[email protected]>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lee Gordon writes:
>
>>I originally bought it.
>>Here's the search parameter I used:
>>http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
>>
>>Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an IBM
>>Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
>>$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
>>I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
>
>Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made to
>support USB. I think I tossed my ME CD a week or two ago. Worst OS I ever
>tried, including Mac OS 8.
Win95/SE (second editon) *does* support USB, fwiw.
==
"mp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I know, it's a slippery slope - you have a target figure for dollars
> > to be spent - get over it. It is way past time that everyone switched
> > to laptops as their main computer
>
> Why? Desktop computers are faster, cheaper, upgradeable, and more
versatile
> in configuration and expansion options.
I agree. Laptops are optimized for one thing: portability. If that's not
an interest to you, laptops are a big loser.
todd
Charlie ...
<<Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made to
support USB. I think I tossed my ME CD a week or two ago. Worst OS I ever
tried, including Mac OS 8.>>
All versions of Win98 support USB. There is even a version of Win95
(version B) that supports USB but it is very basic and somewhat limited.
The $300 laptop I bought on eBay came with Win98 installed (not always the
case that there is any OS on an eBay machine; it's always wise to check
before bidding) and I upgraded it to Win98SE. The upgrade disk was another
eBay purchase (about $30).
I notice that you are looking for a machine with a 20 GIG hard drive. Most
of the eBay machines equipped that way seem to be running in the $450-600
range.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
[email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Todd Fatheree <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >Lee Gordon writes:
>>> >
<snippage>
>>>
>>> Win95/SE (second editon) *does* support USB, fwiw.
>>
>>Slight nit-picking correction. There was no SE version of Win95.
>>You're thinking of Win95 OSR2 (OEM Service Release 2). SE was the
>>second version of Win98.
>
> You're quite right. And now I'm not sure _which_ one it was that
> introduced USB support -- Win95/OSR2 or Win98/SE. Whichever it was,
> the splash screen announced 'with USB support'.
>
It is just this sort of attention to detail that makes ubergeeks so
valuable in the IT department, and so likely to eat lunch by
themselves...;-)
Patriarch,
who gave it all up for...
>> You're quite right. And now I'm not sure _which_ one it was that
>> introduced USB support -- Win95/OSR2 or Win98/SE. Whichever it was,
>> the splash screen announced 'with USB support'.
The OSR2 release for Win95 provided limited USB functionality for a few
devices (HID primarily I believe... mice and a few keyboards). Full USB
support was in Win98. (Or "fool support" if you're a Linux person talking
about Windows...)
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Lee Gordon writes:
> >
> >>I originally bought it.
> >>Here's the search parameter I used:
> >>http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
> >>
> >>Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an
IBM
> >>Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
> >>$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
> >>I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
> >
> >Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made
to
> >support USB. I think I tossed my ME CD a week or two ago. Worst OS I ever
> >tried, including Mac OS 8.
>
> Win95/SE (second editon) *does* support USB, fwiw.
Slight nit-picking correction. There was no SE version of Win95. You're
thinking of Win95 OSR2 (OEM Service Release 2). SE was the second version
of Win98.
todd
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> (charlie self ponders)
> Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made to
> support USB.
Charlie--my Win98 desk machine (Compaq 5660, PII@450) came with USB,
so it is supported. Stepdaughter's laptop (Compaq Prosignia, 233mhz)
also came with it.
Same market I'm in, but I'm just beginning to search.
Good luck looking.
Dan
Philip Lewis wrote:
> [email protected] (Charlie Self) writes:
>>Lee Gordon writes:
>>>eBay generally has hundreds (at least) of used laptops, some over-priced
>>>but
>>>many pretty reasonable. Last year I needed a cheap laptop for off-site
>>Or close to sufficiently cheap. I'll check it out, and thanks.
>
> I'll second ebay...
> I managed to pick up a PIII-400 4.3 gig dell latitude for < $300.
> I already had an identical system (except hd = 20gig) and wanted a
> backup. ;)
>
> I decided to install netbsd on it and it's become my primary machine.
>
> I just wish i could get my card reader to read my CF cards. :(
I'll third it. The Thinkpad 770 that I got off ebay many years ago is now
starting college. Just read all the fine print very carefully, check the
seller's feedback before you bid, and plan on 200 bucks or so for a new
battery--you may not need it in which case you're 200 bucks to the good,
but that's not the way to bet.
> Good luck charlie!
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Charlie, just my 2 cents but Dell currently has an entry level laptop for
$719. Add the support and it will last you some time. You want to use this
thing for video capture from your camera and an older PII may do that now
but it will be painfull and won't support you for very long. It's like
buying any other tool. If you want to save a few bucks at minimum go with a
PIII 800+ mhz system. Memory is pretty cheap to add to these guys these
days. You will at least get a few years out of that and should be able to
find it for around $400.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee Gordon writes:
>
> >I originally bought it.
> >Here's the search parameter I used:
> >http://search.ebay.com/laptop_W0QQfromZR7QQsosortpropertyZ1
> >
> >Just doing a cursory scan I see that as I was typing this, there was an
IBM
> >Thinkpad with a 12.1 inch TFT display and a DVD drive that just went for
> >$299 and a working Toshiba Tecra with 12" screen that just sold for $41.
> >I'm sure you can find something sufficiently cheap.
>
> Yeah. Lots of stuff using Win98, too, but I'm not sure that can be made to
> support USB. I think I tossed my ME CD a week or two ago. Worst OS I ever
> tried, including Mac OS 8.
>
> Wish I had time this afternoon to pop into town and see what they've got
there.
> I've got some stuff that might actually make a decent one-to-one swap for
a
> $600 or $800 laptop.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up
and
> hurry off as if nothing happened." Sir Winston Churchill
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a
> need for a method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort
> of price settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus
> shipping). Checking these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives,
> Pentium IIIs, max of 128 megs of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD
> readers and DVD readers, screens in the 12" range.
>
> Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten
> good value from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150
> models, with Pentium IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40
> gig hard drive, 14+" screen, CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP
> loaded. Prices start at about $825.
>
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out
> there hoping to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices
> and get a hard drive that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the
> RAM, a faster CPU and a burner, plus other features and they expect to
> sell stuff.
>
> Amazing.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the
> animosities he excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
>
I think the screen of a simple laptop is half or more of the cost. Dell
by virtue (<grin> of their size gets a good price on their screens (and
they are good screens). You have to watch out for all the crap that gets
loaded onto Dell computers at the factory, though. IMO, it is not a bad
idea to wipe the drive and start from scratch (YMMV).
Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, it is almost
as mobile for an occasional trip in your car, and MUCH cheaper for the
features.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
> Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
> anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
> the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
> but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
You can buy small form factor PC's these days. They're about the size of a
loaf of bread. Load them up with whatever components you want, and you have
an ultra quiet high-powered portable system. Customers have put them into
their boats, RV's, etc.
> >You can buy small form factor PC's these days. They're about the size of
a
> >loaf of bread. Load them up with whatever components you want, and you
have
> >an ultra quiet high-powered portable system. Customers have put them into
> >their boats, RV's, etc.
>
> Yeah, well...I really, really don't want to get into building computers
again.
> I built something like 5. That's enough.
I don't know if these meet your needs, but they're half built. Pop in a hard
drive, ram, (and on some a CPU) and you're good to go.
mp responds:
>> Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>> anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>> the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>> but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>
>You can buy small form factor PC's these days. They're about the size of a
>loaf of bread. Load them up with whatever components you want, and you have
>an ultra quiet high-powered portable system. Customers have put them into
>their boats, RV's, etc.
Yeah, well...I really, really don't want to get into building computers again.
I built something like 5. That's enough.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Han asks:
>Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, it is almost
>as mobile for an occasional trip in your car, and MUCH cheaper for the
>features.
You're kidding, right? I go to a spot to shoot photos and set up a desktop
computer to review them there? In some cases, I'll be shooting where no power
is available except for what I cart along. A laptop is ideal for that. Even the
smallest desktop I've ever had is a PITA to set up and tear down comparatively
speaking.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Han asks:
>
> >Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, ...
>
> You're kidding, right? I go to a spot to shoot photos and set up a desktop
> computer to review them there?
>
Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
Larry Blanchard asks:
>Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
Sounds familiar. My first computer was a 'portable' Kaypro 1, but that little
thing weighed something like 22 pounds. I did cart it along a couple times,
which may be why I wear a 36" sleeve these days.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> says...
> On 07 Sep 2004 17:15:18 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
> calmly ranted:
>
> >Larry Blanchard asks:
> >
> >>Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers?
> >
> >Sounds familiar. My first computer was a 'portable' Kaypro 1, but that little
> >thing weighed something like 22 pounds.
>
> <g> My dad wrote his (one, not 45 like you) book on a Kaypro
> II. They were definitely not "laptop" models.
>
Agreed. I just thought that if the cheap cases were still available,
Charlie could populate it with standard boards and save some money.
Since he was talking about driving I wasn't too concerned about the
weight.
But I looked around on the web and even the company that I knew used to
have them (I bought my tower from them) doesn't make them anymore. All
the "lunchboxes" now open up to a larger screen and cost more than a
portable :-(.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
On 07 Sep 2004 17:15:18 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:
>Larry Blanchard asks:
>
>>Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>>anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>>the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>>but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>
>Sounds familiar. My first computer was a 'portable' Kaypro 1, but that little
>thing weighed something like 22 pounds. I did cart it along a couple times,
>which may be why I wear a 36" sleeve these days.
<g> My dad wrote his (one, not 45 like you) book on a Kaypro
II. They were definitely not "laptop" models.
.-.
Better Living Through Denial
---
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design
In article <[email protected]>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Blanchard asks:
>
>>Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>>anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>>the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>>but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>
>Sounds familiar. My first computer was a 'portable' Kaypro 1, but that little
>thing weighed something like 22 pounds. I did cart it along a couple times,
>which may be why I wear a 36" sleeve these days.
One 36" sleeve, and one 33" one, right? (like lugging a Speed Graphic :)
As for what's going on with lap-top pricing, The _biggest_ expense factor
is the low-power-consumption component selection. And it's pretty much a
fixed _amount_ increment over the 'regular power' components. So, the
price hit on the higher capacity stuff is _relatively_ smaller. Add in
the 'quantity buying' power of the big boys, and it's not surprising that
they can market much more impressive specs for 'very little' more money than
the little guys.
Many people _still_ prefer the little guys, because they have a better idea
of what they're getting (component suppliers don't change from week-to-week,
depending on who has the better price _today_), and can, many times, specify
the precise make/model, etc. of the components they want.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On 07 Sep 2004 17:15:18 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
> calmly ranted:
>
>
>>Larry Blanchard asks:
>>
>>
>>>Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>>>anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>>>the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>>>but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>>
>>Sounds familiar. My first computer was a 'portable' Kaypro 1, but that little
>>thing weighed something like 22 pounds. I did cart it along a couple times,
>>which may be why I wear a 36" sleeve these days.
>
>
> <g> My dad wrote his (one, not 45 like you) book on a Kaypro
> II. They were definitely not "laptop" models.
>
The were called "luggables" if memory serves.
j4
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> Whaddaya _mean_ "nobody sells them anymore"?
> <http://store.jinco4me.com/luboxco.html>
>
Actually, Jinco was the place I was thinking of. But the "luchbox"
computers they sell now are nothing like the old lunchboxes which looked
much like a Kaypro or the little Compaq. A 5" to 7" screen alongside
one or two floppies.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>, mp <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
>> anymore, but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
>> the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
>> but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>
>You can buy small form factor PC's these days. They're about the size of a
>loaf of bread. Load them up with whatever components you want, and you have
>an ultra quiet high-powered portable system. Customers have put them into
>their boats, RV's, etc.
>
>
Bah. those are the *BIG* ones. <grin>
I can get a complete 'system on a board' that bolts to the side of a 3-1/2"
hard-drive. Same form-factor. needs only a power-supply to drive the
motherboard and the disk.
If you don't need the big hard-disk, something the size of a pack of playing
cards is 'no problem'. :)
Of course, you do have to have keyboard, monitor, and probably mouse.
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> Han asks:
>>
>> >Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, ...
>>
>> You're kidding, right? I go to a spot to shoot photos and set up a
>> desktop computer to review them there?
>>
> Charlie, do you remember the "lunchbox" computers? Nobody sells them
> anymore,
Whaddaya _mean_ "nobody sells them anymore"?
<http://store.jinco4me.com/luboxco.html>
If you DAGS "lunchbox computer case" you'll find a lot more. Trouble is
they're specialized equipment and thus quite pricey. You can get a damned
good laptop for the price of the case alone.
> but at least a couple of years ago you could buy a case with
> the (small) CRT and build your own. I don't know about battery-powered,
> but with a converter you could plug it in to your car/truck lighter.
>
>
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
O
>You're kidding, right? I go to a spot to shoot photos and set up a desktop
>computer to review them there? In some cases, I'll be shooting where no power
>is available except for what I cart along. A laptop is ideal for that. Even the
>smallest desktop I've ever had is a PITA to set up and tear down comparatively
>speaking.
what may work for you is a PDA. you can view pics on it and keep it in your
pocket. the only hard part is matching it to the camera memory. what memory does
the camera use?
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Steve Knight asks:
>what may work for you is a PDA. you can view pics on it and keep it in your
>pocket. the only hard part is matching it to the camera memory. what memory
>does
>the camera use?
Compact flash. That really shouldn't be a hard match. I'll have to check.
You're the second one listing PDAs. I'll see if I can locate one that might be
suitable for viewing and storage.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Greetings and Salutations...
On 07 Sep 2004 17:13:53 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Steve Knight asks:
>
>>what may work for you is a PDA. you can view pics on it and keep it in your
>>pocket. the only hard part is matching it to the camera memory. what memory
>>does
>>the camera use?
>
>Compact flash. That really shouldn't be a hard match. I'll have to check.
>You're the second one listing PDAs. I'll see if I can locate one that might be
>suitable for viewing and storage.
>
>Charlie Self
>"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
>excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Or (and I hate mentioning this because I just don't need more
Ebay competition for them) a tablet computer. I happen to like the
ones by Fujitsu quite a bit. and...on Ebay...you can get them for
$250 to $350 for PLENTY of machine to do what you want to do.
Regards
Dave Mundt
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Steve Knight asks:
>
> >what may work for you is a PDA. you can view pics on it and keep it in your
> >pocket. the only hard part is matching it to the camera memory. what memory
> >does
> >the camera use?
>
> Compact flash. That really shouldn't be a hard match. I'll have to check.
> You're the second one listing PDAs. I'll see if I can locate one that might be
> suitable for viewing and storage.
Charlie,
I'd vote against the PDA, primarily because the size of the screen isn't
that much bigger than your camera's LCD display.
A good laptop will afford you lots of download capabilities, not to
mention the ability to edit as needed.
Besides - a high end PDA puts you at $450-500 anyway...
Rick
Rich Chamberlain responds:
>I'd vote against the PDA, primarily because the size of the screen isn't
>that much bigger than your camera's LCD display.
>
>A good laptop will afford you lots of download capabilities, not to
>mention the ability to edit as needed.
>
>Besides - a high end PDA puts you at $450-500 anyway...
>
Yeah, I agree. I did a quick check after Steve's post, and discovered there
doesn't seem to be much there, really, that would be helpful. I don't NEED to
do on-screen editing on-site, but it would be nice if possible; a 20 gig hard
drive is probably bottom end for a couple day's shooting, what with other
things that are going to be on there, and USB is essential...I've got an extra
120 gig hard drive that uses USB 2. I can dump most of what's on that and stay
out for a month!
Too, the laptop is handy when I'm out of the office but need to meet deadlines
on articles, something I've avoided to date.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Ok there is that too :)
Clif
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Clif" wrote in message
> > The reason used laptops go for that price is that people generally paid
> > double for them and they dont realize or dont want to realize that what
> they
> > paid $1500 for, or even $800 as recently as 6 months ago, is no longer
> worth
> > that price.
>
> Nope, the reason they are that price is that shitheads will "win" them on
> eBay for that price.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 7/10/04
>
>
The reason used laptops go for that price is that people generally paid
double for them and they dont realize or dont want to realize that what they
paid $1500 for, or even $800 as recently as 6 months ago, is no longer worth
that price.
The main cause of this was influx of processors last year with increased
speeds. Intel, for example, produced processors so fast with increasing
speeds, even most of the manufacturers couldnt keep up. Thus desktop
computers and yes, even laptops have prices have fallen drastically.
Case in point, I bought a laptop in '01, paid $1300 for the laptop and then
another few hundered for accessories like a network interface, external CD
Burner, etc. I needed something faster so I bought a new laptop (they can
only be expanded so much). When I went to sell mine, they were $800-$900
new for something better. I couldnt see letting it go for even half what I
paid for it, so I finally just gave it to a family member. I got my use out
of it, so that was that.
Computers are a lot like your ww tools in respect, that if it sounds too
good to be true, it probably is. Also remember this...Any thing is worth
what someone will pay for it.
Ok, that is enough rambling from the geek who wants to do more hands on work
with wood :)
Good luck in your search for the new PC/LAPTOP
Clif
Most people say being insane is bad... I see it as having the opportunity to
be unique from the mundane lifestyle forced on us by society
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need
for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of
price
> settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping).
Checking
> these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128
megs
> of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in
the
> 12" range.
>
> Just for kicks, I thought I'd check the Dell site, since I've gotten good
value
> from my desktop Dell. Here we go: several of their 1150 models, with
Pentium
> IV, quarter to a half gig of RAM, 20 or 30 or 40 gig hard drive, 14+"
screen,
> CDRW, bunch of other handy stuff, plus XP loaded. Prices start at about
$825.
>
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there
hoping
> to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard
drive
> that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
> burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
>
> Amazing.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities
he
> excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
Clif responds:
>Computers are a lot like your ww tools in respect, that if it sounds too
>good to be true, it probably is. Also remember this...Any thing is worth
>what someone will pay for it.
>
>Ok, that is enough rambling from the geek who wants to do more hands on work
>with wood :)
>
>Good luck in your search for the new PC/LAPTOP
Point being, though, is that these are ALL used laptops. The stuff Dell offers,
and my past experience with Dell, for almost the same bucks makes me doubt the
sanity of the smaller outfits. Their pricing is way out of line. In fact, I can
buy a better new Dell for just a few hundred bucks more.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Point being, though, is that these are ALL used laptops. The stuff Dell
offers,
> and my past experience with Dell, for almost the same bucks makes me doubt
the
> sanity of the smaller outfits. Their pricing is way out of line. In fact,
I can
> buy a better new Dell for just a few hundred bucks more.
Overhead. Dell has HUGE benefits being that they buy in bulk, mass produce,
etc etc etc
the small guys dont have those advantages. Sometimes they can cut great
deals, but they cant match Dell.
Clif
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Point being, though, is that these are ALL used laptops. The stuff
> Dell offers, and my past experience with Dell, for almost the same
> bucks makes me doubt the sanity of the smaller outfits. Their pricing
> is way out of line. In fact, I can buy a better new Dell for just a
> few hundred bucks more.
>
The market price is what they sell for. If they didn't sell, the price
would drop until they did. Otherwise, they would accumulate, and become a
disposal problem, as desktop computers have become.
I believe that what you are seeing is based on folks not being up to date
as to what the competitive price is on comparable new product. There may
also be a surplus of 'new, but not exactly the latest' product in the
supply chain.
The thing to remember is that new laptop product has approximately the
shelf life of a fresh bagel, (and can't usefully be frozen.)
I've had good experience with IBM Thinkpads. They are available on similar
terms to those you described from Dell. You may consider one of those as
an option.
Patriarch
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> Do these smaller outfits have rocks in their heads or are they out there
hoping
> to catch the ever unwary? Add 25 bucks to their prices and get a hard
drive
> that is 4-5 times as large, double or triple the RAM, a faster CPU and a
> burner, plus other features and they expect to sell stuff.
Just be aware of Dell's shtick ... although good equipment, they lowball
the price on a basic system that sounds real good, but will barely run
today's bloated software, then the add-on's escalate until you are paying
top dollar any way. They also load the machines down with junk offers to the
point that you are better off re-formatting and starting over.
Used to be you could get a good, used laptop locally, and you still can if
you can run across a seller who hasn't discovered, or doesn't want to take
the time to deal with, eBay.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
Swingman writes:
>Just be aware of Dell's shtick ... although good equipment, they lowball
>the price on a basic system that sounds real good, but will barely run
>today's bloated software, then the add-on's escalate until you are paying
>top dollar any way. They also load the machines down with junk offers to the
>point that you are better off re-formatting and starting over.
So far, so good. I'm running an 18 month old Dimension 8300 that has a few
extras--gig of RAM, 120 gig hard drive, that sort of stuff. My only problem has
been the CD burner, which went out. The guy in India wanted me to reformat my
hard drive to correct that, but after a week or so of back-and-forth, a local
Dell tech showed up and replaced it.
>Used to be you could get a good, used laptop locally, and you still can if
>you can run across a seller who hasn't discovered, or doesn't want to take
>the time to deal with, eBay
May still be possible. There's a place in town I haven't had time to check yet.
Laptops from $299. My experience with these guys, though, is they're mostly
selling 386 and 486 technology, or want near new prices. I think they hope to
catch the more recent Yankees, retiring here from NY, NJ & CT prices.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
In article <[email protected]>,
patriarch <<patriarch> wrote:
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
><snip>
>
>> I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the
>> first one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a
>> desktop in a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite
>> ways.
>>
>This commment shows, I guess, how far we've come, when a desktop user feels
>he's a Luddite. ;-)
>
>So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
I'm going to have to dig up my copy of the product announcement for "OS/VU"
'virtual universe'.
It was noted that start-up was _slow_. the IPL of 'sys1.god' took seven
days to complete.
System calls to 'non resident galaxies' had a large latency problem.
As for the Neanders -- *what* operating system?? In the good ole days, all
programs ran 'stand alone'. There *wasn't* any such thing as an operating
system -- either the functionality was embedded in your application code,
or it didn't exist. Many shops came to have a 'standard library' of routines
for basic device functions, that you could merge to your code, as needed.
The true Neander is going to 'program on the bare metal' producing direct
machine-executable code, handling all required functionality internally,
without benefit of an operating system, or even an 'assembler' to do
instruction translation.
Don't laugh. I've _written_ code under those conditions, myself.
In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
> So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>
DOS 3.1 of course.
Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> TOS/360 (that's <T>ape <O>perating <S>ystem -- for sites that couldn't afford
> rotating mass storage, aka 'disk drives')
You got me! I'd forgotten that one :-). And we had one of the first
360s (a model 20?) at Hughes Aircraft in Culver City. Another place I
worked had a 360/30 on order and cancelled it in favor of an 1130.
But the very first "o/s" that I know of and used was XX3000 for the
Univac. It handled all the (tape) I/O and let you embed your own code
in the middle. High technology for the time :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
>> In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
>> <<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
>> > So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>> >
>> DOS 3.1 of course.
>>
>> Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
>
>... or just load up whatever Babbage was using. :)
Factoid: Lady Lovelace had the software ready, but Babbage never completed the
hardware required to run it.
Charlie Self wrote:
>
>
> May still be possible. There's a place in town I haven't had time to check yet.
> Laptops from $299. My experience with these guys, though, is they're mostly
> selling 386 and 486 technology, or want near new prices. I think they hope to
> catch the more recent Yankees, retiring here from NY, NJ & CT prices.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
> excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill
The local college auctions always have a dozen or so laptops (486 class,
sometimes better) that usually go for $5-$20. Deals are out there, it
just depends if you want to kill a day to save a few hundred bucks and
not feel ripped off on ebay :^)
-BR
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
patriarch < wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> <snip>
>
>>I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the
>>first one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a
>>desktop in a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite
>>ways.
>>
>
> This commment shows, I guess, how far we've come, when a desktop user feels
> he's a Luddite. ;-)
>
> So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
The OS is the power tool of computers. The Neander computer provides
memory for instruction/data storage and a processor that understands
basic machine codes to manipulate the data according to the provided
instructions. What more would a Neander need? Of course some would argue
that having a processor follow your instructions and manipulate your
data is akin to a power tool so the true Neander who makes his own
woodworking tools should also by definition make his own processor by
hand coding an FPGA or actually building a bit slice.
-BR
>
> Patriarch,
> who really appreciates the bigger screen on the desktop.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
><<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
>> So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>>
>DOS 3.1 of course.
>
>Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
Actually, even OS/MVS (non-XA), including SPF, _will_ fit on a desktop.
If you've got a "P-370" card, it runs _native_ on the co-processor board.
Othewise there is the 'Hercules' emulator, which will run anything from about
TOS/360 (that's <T>ape <O>perating <S>ystem -- for sites that couldn't afford
rotating mass storage, aka 'disk drives') forward. I think it does XA, and
even Z-system. *scary* piece of software.
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:56:24 +0000, [email protected] (Robert
Bonomi) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
>>> In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
>>> <<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
>>> > So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>>> >
>>> DOS 3.1 of course.
>>>
>>> Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
>>
>>... or just load up whatever Babbage was using. :)
>
>Factoid: Lady Lovelace had the software ready, but Babbage never completed the
>hardware required to run it.
>
Kind of an ironic historical twist, isn't it? Probably the only time in
history the hardware availability lagged the software. (Well, at least in
my world that's the case).
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> So far, so good. I'm running an 18 month old Dimension 8300 that has a few
> extras--gig of RAM, 120 gig hard drive, that sort of stuff. My only
problem has
> been the CD burner, which went out. The guy in India wanted me to reformat
my
> hard drive to correct that, but after a week or so of back-and-forth, a
local
> Dell tech showed up and replaced it.
Back in June I bought my youngest a Dell 5150 Inspiron laptop for college.
By the time I got finished with the "upgrades" to insure decent performance,
the price went from a base of $1100 to about $1800, then the "hazard"
insurance/extended warranty (for college dorm life and far from home, I
figured I'd be better off hedging that bet and being a sucker for once)
added close to another $300 to that ... and, after using it, it has become
apparent (to me, at least) that I still didn't get enough memory for the
damn thing.
I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the first
one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a desktop in
a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite ways.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the
> first one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a
> desktop in a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite
> ways.
>
This commment shows, I guess, how far we've come, when a desktop user feels
he's a Luddite. ;-)
So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
Patriarch,
who really appreciates the bigger screen on the desktop.
BruceR wrote:
> patriarch < wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the
>>>first one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a
>>>desktop in a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite
>>>ways.
>>>
>>
>> This commment shows, I guess, how far we've come, when a desktop user
>> feels he's a Luddite. ;-)
>>
>> So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>
> The OS is the power tool of computers. The Neander computer provides
> memory for instruction/data storage and a processor that understands
> basic machine codes to manipulate the data according to the provided
> instructions. What more would a Neander need? Of course some would argue
> that having a processor follow your instructions and manipulate your
> data is akin to a power tool so the true Neander who makes his own
> woodworking tools should also by definition make his own processor by
> hand coding an FPGA or actually building a bit slice.
The hard part's finding a working or repairable with reasonable effort
machine with lights and switches on the front panel for a reasonable price.
>
> -BR
>
>>
>> Patriarch,
>> who really appreciates the bigger screen on the desktop.
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
>><<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
>>> So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>>>
>>DOS 3.1 of course.
>>
>>Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
>
> Actually, even OS/MVS (non-XA), including SPF, _will_ fit on a desktop.
> If you've got a "P-370" card, it runs _native_ on the co-processor board.
>
> Othewise there is the 'Hercules' emulator, which will run anything from
> about TOS/360 (that's <T>ape <O>perating <S>ystem -- for sites that
> couldn't afford rotating mass storage, aka 'disk drives') forward. I think
> it does XA, and
> even Z-system. *scary* piece of software.
Especially when you consider that it outperforms the early hardware.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:07:42 +0000, [email protected] (Robert
Bonomi) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>patriarch <<patriarch> wrote:
>>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>><snip>
>>
>>> I've probably owned 6 laptops in the past 12 years, and that is the
>>> first one I've not bought used. Personally, I've gone back to using a
>>> desktop in a, likely out-of-step, effort to return to more Luddite
>>> ways.
>>>
>>This commment shows, I guess, how far we've come, when a desktop user feels
>>he's a Luddite. ;-)
>>
>>So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
>
>I'm going to have to dig up my copy of the product announcement for "OS/VU"
>'virtual universe'.
>
>It was noted that start-up was _slow_. the IPL of 'sys1.god' took seven
>days to complete.
>
>System calls to 'non resident galaxies' had a large latency problem.
>
>
>As for the Neanders -- *what* operating system?? In the good ole days, all
>programs ran 'stand alone'. There *wasn't* any such thing as an operating
>system -- either the functionality was embedded in your application code,
>or it didn't exist. Many shops came to have a 'standard library' of routines
>for basic device functions, that you could merge to your code, as needed.
>
>The true Neander is going to 'program on the bare metal' producing direct
>machine-executable code, handling all required functionality internally,
>without benefit of an operating system, or even an 'assembler' to do
>instruction translation.
>
>Don't laugh. I've _written_ code under those conditions, myself.
>
We used to call them "executives"; small continuous loops that polled
various hardware locations and/or waited around for interrupts. Simple,
efficient, and relatively easy to see what was going on with a piece of
hardware so programmed.
Nah, it's Micro$oft's new OS just for carpenters & woodworkers ... MS Doors
:-p
--
Marc Hudson
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
> > In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
> > <<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
> > > So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
> > >
> > DOS 3.1 of course.
> >
> > Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
>
> ... or just load up whatever Babbage was using. :)
>
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 7/10/04
>
>
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
> In article <[email protected]>, patriarch
> <<patriarch>[email protected]> says...
> > So, what's the proper OS for a Neander computer user? ;-)
> >
> DOS 3.1 of course.
>
> Unless OS/MFT or Multics will fit on a desktop :-).
... or just load up whatever Babbage was using. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
>
>Why do you want a laptop anyway? If you get a small desktop, it is almost
>as mobile for an occasional trip in your car, and MUCH cheaper for the
>features.
The small Size of a laptop is why I use one in my shop... I can store
it in a small dust free drawer when not in use...
To use it all I need to do is remove it from the drawer and place it
on my workbench, drill press table, tablesaw top or where ever I
wish... Battery live is good for a few hours but grabbing the power
cord and plugging it in is sure not a big deal... with a wireless
connection the laptop is just so much more convient for shop use then
a desktop...
Just works much better for me...
Bob Griffiths
"BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Hookers?
[ big :) ]
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:07:36 -0400, Nova <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
>> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>>
>
>WalMart has recently started selling laptops. I haven't looked at them but the
>price sounds good. See:
>
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3163026
And the mfgr (for whom Walmart OEMs) is in good company:
http://www.notebookcomputers.com/madebywho.asp
Interesting.
(Note to Tawm: How is Dell's Business service? Home/Office Indian
customer support sucks the big, green, rancid one. I spent an
entire day helping my neighbor with his Dell and I spent several
hours with their people trying to get off the dodgamned mailing
list. That taught me to -never- buy a Dell.)
.-.
Better Living Through Denial
---
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design
On 07 Sep 2004 10:53:06 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
>method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
>So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of price
>settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping). Checking
>these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128 megs
>of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in the
>12" range.
>
Charlie,
I would also suggest EBay. A few months ago I purchased a Thinkpad
PIII, 450 Mhz, 20GB HD and 512 MB RAM, with OS, carrying bag, Ethernet
card, etc. for under $400. Looking in Ebay history, the same computer
has sold for as low as $350 on occasion.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wgoffeney/Woodworking/Woodworking.htm
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:53:06 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
Have you tried retrobox.com ? I recently bought a retread PC from them
that's been fine, and they also carry laptops. You may have to replace
the battery of any laptop that's a few years old, but they have machines
that would do what you want for not too much. As an example, today I saw
a PIII 650 Dell Latitude for $317 plus shipping.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> For shooting photos out of my own shop, I'm slowly running up on a need
> for a
> method of viewing the shots more fully at the scene.
>
> So I started checking used laptop prices, and keep running into a sort of
> price
> settling at $700 ($699 plus shipping) to $800 ($799 plus shipping).
> Checking
> these out, I find 6, 8, 10 or 12 gig hard drives, Pentium IIIs, max of 128
> megs
> of RAM, few details on USB, lots of CD readers and DVD readers, screens in
> the
> 12" range.
Denial? Refusal to believe that something you paid several thousand dollars
for a few years ago is now "worthless"?
Still agreed - it's all abouth the price. Price those for a few hunnert and
they'd probably get some more takers.
By the way, this question popped into my head a few years ago: Is there any
other product, besides computers, where the price decline is a rapid when
there's no degradation in performance?
For example - my 33MHz 486 box still performs as well as it did the day I
bought it. Yet, it went from $3000 in 1992 to effectively zero several years
later. Any other product in the history of economics have a similar
profile?
Patrick Conroy asks:
>By the way, this question popped into my head a few years ago: Is there any
>other product, besides computers, where the price decline is a rapid when
>there's no degradation in performance?
>
>For example - my 33MHz 486 box still performs as well as it did the day I
>bought it. Yet, it went from $3000 in 1992 to effectively zero several years
>later. Any other product in the history of economics have a similar
>profile?
>
Possibly, and it's still a bit too early to tell, digital cameras and cell
phones.
Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill