"NoOne N Particular" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just had another thought. I think we have all been assuming that the
> panel raising bit is the horizontal type.
The OP said Freud bit, 3.5" diameter. Gotta be a horizontal bit.
Greg
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:33 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A drawback to the vertical is that they only work on straight pieces of
>wood. You cannot use them on stock that is curved or rounded.
>
>
sez who?
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:27:40 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>NO.
>10,000 is what you want. At 15,000 your router bit tip speed is near 230
>mph. At 10,000 the tip speed is near 153 mph. It is you safety more than
>anything that you should be concerned about here.
Leon makes good sense.
I once had a salesperson tell me that at in a fixed speed router, the
tip was turning at 30000 RPM if the shaft was turning 23000. <G>
Barry
[email protected] (Sean) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> OK, I think I got the point that 15,000 rpm is way too fast. Just to
> answer some of the questions raised in the postings: it is a
> horizontal bit, mounted in a router table with a variable speed
> router. The problem is the min speed on the router is 15,000 rpm. I
> think maybe the best thing to do is but myself the Hitach M12 or Freud
> 3+ HP router and then do it with a vertical bit or my horizontal bit
> with a speed of 8000 rpm. Both of these routers have this low speed, I
> think.
>
> I guess the other option would be to buy a door, but there isn't much
> fun or creative energy put into that! LOL
>
> Thanks a million for all your help
>
> Sean
I have the freud bit you are referring to. On the inside of the
package is the safe speed at which the bit is supposed to run. It is
extremely dangerous to run at any faster speed. Also, you are correct
that you need a router with sufficient horsepower to work well with
bits of this size at the slower speed. I own the Freud router. It
works great, but if I were to get another one, I would get a Dewalt or
a Porter cable, only because accessories are easier to find.
George
OK, I think I got the point that 15,000 rpm is way too fast. Just to
answer some of the questions raised in the postings: it is a
horizontal bit, mounted in a router table with a variable speed
router. The problem is the min speed on the router is 15,000 rpm. I
think maybe the best thing to do is but myself the Hitach M12 or Freud
3+ HP router and then do it with a vertical bit or my horizontal bit
with a speed of 8000 rpm. Both of these routers have this low speed, I
think.
I guess the other option would be to buy a door, but there isn't much
fun or creative energy put into that! LOL
Thanks a million for all your help
Sean
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:21:45 GMT, "NoOne N Particular"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just had another thought. I think we have all been assuming that the
>panel raising bit is the horizontal type. I have not used the vertical
>bits, but I would assume that the problem would not be as severe. Am I
>wrong?
you are correct. the diameter is less, so the tip speed is less.
another plus is that there is less variation in the tip speed from one
end of the cutter to the other. vertical panel bits have a lot lower
pucker factor for _me_.
>
>I know that the vertical bit would still be a large chunk of spinning metal
>just looking for some flesh to feast on, and would still require a great
>deal of respect. But do they need to be slowed down too?
I run mine full speed. I also run it in a horizontal router table so I
can have the panels flat on the table, rather than trying to run them
through on edge.
>
>Wayne
>
>
NoOne N Particular wrote:
> Listen to Leon and David.
>
> I had the same problem. I tried using the panel raising bit (it was a
> Rockler bit, not a Freud but that shouldn't matter much) at the high speed
> and it scared the crap outta me. I went out and bought one of those
> electronic speed controllers and I would say only that it worked well enough
> to get me through that one job. If at all possible, get yourself a variable
> speed router.
Even when I run mine at the recommended speed it still scares me.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
NoOne N Particular wrote:
> I just had another thought. I think we have all been assuming that the
> panel raising bit is the horizontal type. I have not used the vertical
> bits, but I would assume that the problem would not be as severe. Am I
> wrong?
He said it was a Freud 3.5" raised panel bit. The Freud vertical panel bits
are 1-1/2"d x 3-3/16" h. I'd say it's a horizontal type.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Upscale apparently said,on my timestamp of 5/08/2004 8:55 PM:
> Vertical bits don't have a speed limitation and don't need to be slowed down
> to something like 10,000 rpm. Useful for older routers without speed
> control. This is all aside from the fact that spinning a horizontal bit it
> quite a bit more scary and has a higher level of danger attached to it than
> a spinning vertical panel bit.
and you can't get undercut profiles in horizontal bits...
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[email protected]
Be sure to make multiple passes! No shortcuts when routing raised panels.
Of course you could always route them with hand planes... I ain't a skeered
of no raised panel bit... Not much I ain't.
"NoOne N Particular" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Listen to Leon and David.
>
> I had the same problem. I tried using the panel raising bit (it was a
> Rockler bit, not a Freud but that shouldn't matter much) at the high speed
> and it scared the crap outta me. I went out and bought one of those
> electronic speed controllers and I would say only that it worked well
enough
> to get me through that one job. If at all possible, get yourself a
variable
> speed router.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> "Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> > softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
> > Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
> > safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
> >
> > Thank in advance
> >
> > Sean
>
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>
(about setups for raising arched panels with a vertical bit)
>
>> for serpentine curves make a follower bearing that is positioned above
>> the base of the cutter (pin router style), with the cutter in a
>> horizontal router table.
>>
>> for single radius curves make a curved fence, again in the horizontal
>> table.
>
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 05:53:48 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I sort of understand what you're saying, but it would help tremendously if
>you could give a link to a picture of the type of setup you're describing.
>
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:40:42 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Do you have any pictures of that set up? I still cannot imagine how that
>would work.
>
I don't have shots of that kind of setup. mebbe when the table is
freed up I'll set one up.
note that what I'm describing is not necessarily "better" than doing
it with a horizontal bit with a bearing... just pointing out that it
is certainly possible to do with a vertical bit.
nowhere is it written that we must limit ourselves to tooling
configurations that someone else thought up. get in the habit of
making your own jigs and it'll be a lot easier to think your way
through oddball setups.
Leon wrote:
> NO.
> 10,000 is what you want. At 15,000 your router bit tip speed is near 230
> mph. At 10,000 the tip speed is near 153 mph. It is you safety more than
> anything that you should be concerned about here.
This begs the question: why would one choose a standard raised panel
bit over a vertical raised panel bit? Yeah, you have to put the
wood through on edge, but I would think that a decent fence should
make that a wash. It seems as though the same profiles are available
in either standard (or are they called horizontal?) or verticle bits.
http://tinyurl.com/6nkgf
Surely I am missing something here, not having used either style.
Mike
Makes a very "interesting" sound when she spins
up ...
Reminds me of my tool vendor who tells the story
about a customer who forgot to lock her down in
the collet and the 3.5" bit spun up like a top...
It actually stuck in the ceiling joist about 10' up.
The operator had to change his shorts.
Nova wrote:
>
> Even when I run mine at the recommended speed it still scares me.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
Listen to Leon, Sean.
David
Sean wrote:
> I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
> Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
> safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
>
> Thank in advance
>
> Sean
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> sez who?
;~) Ok, I'll bite. How can this be done?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> for serpentine curves make a follower bearing that is positioned above
> the base of the cutter (pin router style), with the cutter in a
> horizontal router table.
>
> for single radius curves make a curved fence, again in the horizontal
> table.
I sort of understand what you're saying, but it would help tremendously if
you could give a link to a picture of the type of setup you're describing.
[email protected] (dteckie) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snippage of excellent advice>
>
> Listen to Leon
>
> I never use my router at highest speeds. Since routers don't have an
> rpm indicator I just set mine a bit above median speed and make
> multiple passes , removing a little wood at a time. More time
> consuming but safer better results.
>> >
>> > "Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > > I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
>> > > softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am
>> > > using the Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is
>> > > this speed safe? There is no information on the Freud site
>> > > concerning this.
>> > >
>> > > Thank in advance
>> > >
>> > > Sean
>> >
Strange how thoughts seem to drop into my head these days, but...
You weren't even CONSIDERING doing this without a well-secured router table
and a solidly attached fence, were you?
Because that's a pretty reliable way to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.
Are you feeling a bit nervous yet? Overconfidence with this tool causes
lots of cleanup in the shop. And not necessarily by the one who was
overconfident.
Patriarch,
who thinks there are a number of ways to get fancy raised panel doors,
safely. Calling a CNC-enabled millwork shop is one of the most
attractive...
And the reason for going to all this trouble instead of just
using a horizontal bit is ...?
David
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:33 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>A drawback to the vertical is that they only work on straight pieces of
>>wood. You cannot use them on stock that is curved or rounded.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Let's say you have a curved-top panel (or a piece of radiused window
> casing - that sorta thing) that you want to raise and you want to use
> a vertically oriented cutter.
>
> (this also works for things like quirk and bead cutters that only come
> oriented to the vertical)
>
> You cut your panel out in the flat and you take a piece of mdf or ply
> and cut a radius in it to match the outside radius of the curved part
> of the panel. This saddle should be no thicker than the minimum
> finished thickness of the piece that you will sit on it.
>
> Screw on another piece of mdf or ply onto the back of this curved
> saddle. This provides a backstop so the piece has something to
> register to. I also put some braces on to give the thing some
> rigidity.
>
> Clamp this contraption to the fence, or, what I usually do, add a
> piece of mdf or ply at a ninety on the bottom and clamp the whole
> thing to the top - and let the fence go visit its relatives for a
> spell.
>
> Now you raise your cutter to the appropriate height and set the
> contraption up so that you will take a very light pass when the curved
> top slides past the cutter in the curved saddle.
>
> Fire up the machine and feed the curved piece into it slowly - making
> sure to keep it pressed tight to the backer piece that you screwed to
> the saddle.
>
> Work your way in until your at the full depth of cut.
>
> BTW - I usually hot melt on a couple of blocks to the face of the
> panel, so as to have a good grip on things. Also, do your curved part
> before shaping the straight parts - as the failure rate is highest at
> the curve and it will piss you off less than having to throw away a
> bad curve after making perfect straights. Then too, I always do the
> biggest panels first, so that I can cut them into smaller useable
> panels if I screw them up.
>
> That's about it.
>
> Good Luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Tom.
>
> Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:27:40 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Leon makes good sense.
>
> I once had a salesperson tell me that at in a fixed speed router, the
> tip was turning at 30000 RPM if the shaft was turning 23000. <G>
Musta been gear drive ..LOL
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:50:34 -0500, Mike Gerdts <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>
>> NO.
>> 10,000 is what you want. At 15,000 your router bit tip speed is near 230
>> mph. At 10,000 the tip speed is near 153 mph. It is you safety more than
>> anything that you should be concerned about here.
>
>This begs the question: why would one choose a standard raised panel
>bit over a vertical raised panel bit? Yeah, you have to put the
>wood through on edge, but I would think that a decent fence should
>make that a wash. It seems as though the same profiles are available
>in either standard (or are they called horizontal?) or verticle bits.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6nkgf
>
>Surely I am missing something here, not having used either style.
>
>Mike
to have the bearing to follow a curved edge.
there are other ways to raise a curved panel, but the bearing on the
panel raising cutter is probably the easiest.
Listen to Leon and David.
I had the same problem. I tried using the panel raising bit (it was a
Rockler bit, not a Freud but that shouldn't matter much) at the high speed
and it scared the crap outta me. I went out and bought one of those
electronic speed controllers and I would say only that it worked well enough
to get me through that one job. If at all possible, get yourself a variable
speed router.
Wayne
"Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
> Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
> safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
>
> Thank in advance
>
> Sean
On 2 Aug 2004 15:12:49 -0700, [email protected] (Sean) wrote:
>I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
>softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
>Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
>safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
One of the reasons that I keep the shaper around instead of selling it
is that I don't like doing raised panels on a router table.
It scares me.
When I used to use the router table I would waste as much wood as
possible on the tablesaw before making the first pass on the router
table.
The routers that I've used were all 3HP or better and either had
variable speed or were used with a speed control. The first one was a
Makita 3012 and the most recent one is a biggish Porter Cable.
15000 is way to fast in my book. On the shaper I make the roughing
passes at 7000, with a slow feed rate and use the 10000 setting for
the final pass at a higher feed rate.
If you stay with the router, try to take light cuts and work your way
to the final cut in steps. You will get more chatter out of the
router than the shaper, as it isn't beefy enough to resist the side
loading.
If that router is fixed at a minimum of 15000, I'd get a speed control
or another router.
A shaper or a beefier router is a lot less expensive than a hospital
stay.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
patriarch wrote:
> [email protected] (dteckie) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> <snippage of excellent advice>
>>
>> Listen to Leon
>>
>> I never use my router at highest speeds. Since routers don't have an
>> rpm indicator I just set mine a bit above median speed and make
>> multiple passes , removing a little wood at a time. More time
>> consuming but safer better results.
>>> >
>>> > "Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>> > > I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
>>> > > softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am
>>> > > using the Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is
>>> > > this speed safe? There is no information on the Freud site
>>> > > concerning this.
>>> > >
>>> > > Thank in advance
>>> > >
>>> > > Sean
>>> >
>
> Strange how thoughts seem to drop into my head these days, but...
>
> You weren't even CONSIDERING doing this without a well-secured router
> table and a solidly attached fence, were you?
>
> Because that's a pretty reliable way to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.
>
> Are you feeling a bit nervous yet? Overconfidence with this tool causes
> lots of cleanup in the shop. And not necessarily by the one who was
> overconfident.
>
> Patriarch,
> who thinks there are a number of ways to get fancy raised panel doors,
> safely. Calling a CNC-enabled millwork shop is one of the most
> attractive...
Depends on why you do woodwork. If you're doing it to make money then
farming some things out makes sense. If you're doing it for recreation
then farming out the "interesting" stuff defeats the purpose.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Sales folks are the same everywhere, no matter what walk of life. I guess
there's only maybe two or three that I really have ever felt were in it to
help people....and they were successful salepeople because of that character
trait.
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:27:40 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >NO.
> >10,000 is what you want. At 15,000 your router bit tip speed is near 230
> >mph. At 10,000 the tip speed is near 153 mph. It is you safety more
than
> >anything that you should be concerned about here.
>
> Leon makes good sense.
>
> I once had a salesperson tell me that at in a fixed speed router, the
> tip was turning at 30000 RPM if the shaft was turning 23000. <G>
>
> Barry
"Liam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Be sure to make multiple passes! No shortcuts when routing raised panels.
> Of course you could always route them with hand planes... I ain't a skeered
> of no raised panel bit... Not much I ain't.
> "NoOne N Particular" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Listen to Leon and David.
> >
> > I had the same problem. I tried using the panel raising bit (it was a
> > Rockler bit, not a Freud but that shouldn't matter much) at the high speed
> > and it scared the crap outta me. I went out and bought one of those
> > electronic speed controllers and I would say only that it worked well
> enough
> > to get me through that one job. If at all possible, get yourself a
> variable
> > speed router.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
Listen to Leon
I never use my router at highest speeds. Since routers don't have an
rpm indicator I just set mine a bit above median speed and make
multiple passes , removing a little wood at a time. More time
consuming but safer better results.
> >
> > "Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> > > softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
> > > Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
> > > safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
> > >
> > > Thank in advance
> > >
> > > Sean
> >
> >
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They do NOT have to be slowed for vertical.
>
> You do have to have a tall fence and a steady hand.
>
> Any "tiny" little slip and there goes the big old panel.
>
> Yes...the verticals are pretty good size also.
>
> Here is even another way to do it...
>
> http://www.woodworkingtips.com/woodtips/wstip13.html
>
>
> NoOne N Particular wrote:
>
> >
> > I know that the vertical bit would still be a large chunk of spinning
metal
> > just looking for some flesh to feast on, and would still require a great
> > deal of respect. But do they need to be slowed down too?
>
I put a little different spin (pun intended) on this by mounting the router
horizontally on the back of the table and built a jig to raise and lower the
router, the verticle bit lay in a groove in the table top. lay the panel on
its face and route away, small bites and removing most of the wood on the TS
worked great on hard maple with a PC690 and a speed control.
--
"Shut up and keep diggen"
Jerry
"Mike Gerdts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This begs the question: why would one choose a standard raised panel
> bit over a vertical raised panel bit? Yeah, you have to put the
> wood through on edge, but I would think that a decent fence should
> make that a wash. It seems as though the same profiles are available
> in either standard (or are they called horizontal?) or verticle bits.
Many pieces or doors with raised panels also have decorative curves. These
curves can only be done with a horizontal bit
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 04:33:27 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > sez who?
>>
>> ;~) Ok, I'll bite. How can this be done?
>
>
>Maybe I said that wrong and maybe you misunderstood my comment. What I was
>trying to indicate was that you cannot use a vertical bit on an end or side
>of a board that may curve in or out. If you can do this yourself, would you
>care to explain how this is done?
>
I think I understand you... you're just wrong is all <G>. just to be
clear as mud here, we're talking about an arched rather than a bowed
panel..... the panel is a flat plane, but it's edges aren't straight.
inside curves are harder than outside curves, especially if the curve
is tight- at some point you cannot extend the bit far enough from the
base of the router- but-
for serpentine curves make a follower bearing that is positioned above
the base of the cutter (pin router style), with the cutter in a
horizontal router table.
for single radius curves make a curved fence, again in the horizontal
table.
both of these take more setup time than a bearing guided horizontal
bit in a vertical table, and may have no benefit over that approach.
or, they might. I'll make *that* decision when I'm planning the
setup...
for bowed panels, you'd be making a curved *table*....
They do NOT have to be slowed for vertical.
You do have to have a tall fence and a steady hand.
Any "tiny" little slip and there goes the big old panel.
Yes...the verticals are pretty good size also.
Here is even another way to do it...
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/woodtips/wstip13.html
NoOne N Particular wrote:
>
> I know that the vertical bit would still be a large chunk of spinning metal
> just looking for some flesh to feast on, and would still require a great
> deal of respect. But do they need to be slowed down too?
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:00:31 GMT, Pat Barber
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Nope... it works, it just requires a different thought
>process.(and different jig)
It also depends on what profile you'd like the panel to have. It's
kind of hard to cut an ogee with a straight blade. <G>
Barry
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > sez who?
>
> ;~) Ok, I'll bite. How can this be done?
Maybe I said that wrong and maybe you misunderstood my comment. What I was
trying to indicate was that you cannot use a vertical bit on an end or side
of a board that may curve in or out. If you can do this yourself, would you
care to explain how this is done?
"Noons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Upscale apparently said,on my timestamp of 5/08/2004 8:55 PM:
>
>
> > Vertical bits don't have a speed limitation and don't need to be slowed
down
> > to something like 10,000 rpm. Useful for older routers without speed
> > control. This is all aside from the fact that spinning a horizontal bit
it
> > quite a bit more scary and has a higher level of danger attached to it
than
> > a spinning vertical panel bit.
>
>
> and you can't get undercut profiles in horizontal bits...
>
> --
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [email protected]
... or backcutters in vertical bits.
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:35:33 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:33 GMT, "Leon"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>A drawback to the vertical is that they only work on straight pieces of
>>wood. You cannot use them on stock that is curved or rounded.
>>
>>
>
>
>Let's say you have a curved-top panel (or a piece of radiused window
>casing - that sorta thing) that you want to raise and you want to use
>a vertically oriented cutter.
>
>(this also works for things like quirk and bead cutters that only come
>oriented to the vertical)
>
>You cut your panel out in the flat and you take a piece of mdf or ply
>and cut a radius in it to match the outside radius of the curved part
>of the panel. This saddle should be no thicker than the minimum
>finished thickness of the piece that you will sit on it.
>
>Screw on another piece of mdf or ply onto the back of this curved
>saddle. This provides a backstop so the piece has something to
>register to. I also put some braces on to give the thing some
>rigidity.
>
>Clamp this contraption to the fence, or, what I usually do, add a
>piece of mdf or ply at a ninety on the bottom and clamp the whole
>thing to the top - and let the fence go visit its relatives for a
>spell.
>
>Now you raise your cutter to the appropriate height and set the
>contraption up so that you will take a very light pass when the curved
>top slides past the cutter in the curved saddle.
>
>Fire up the machine and feed the curved piece into it slowly - making
>sure to keep it pressed tight to the backer piece that you screwed to
>the saddle.
>
>Work your way in until your at the full depth of cut.
>
>BTW - I usually hot melt on a couple of blocks to the face of the
>panel, so as to have a good grip on things. Also, do your curved part
>before shaping the straight parts - as the failure rate is highest at
>the curve and it will piss you off less than having to throw away a
>bad curve after making perfect straights. Then too, I always do the
>biggest panels first, so that I can cut them into smaller useable
>panels if I screw them up.
>
>That's about it.
>
>Good Luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Tom.
I *think* that that's about what I was describing....
I just had another thought. I think we have all been assuming that the
panel raising bit is the horizontal type. I have not used the vertical
bits, but I would assume that the problem would not be as severe. Am I
wrong?
I know that the vertical bit would still be a large chunk of spinning metal
just looking for some flesh to feast on, and would still require a great
deal of respect. But do they need to be slowed down too?
Wayne
"patriarch [email protected]>" <<patriarch> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (dteckie) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> <snippage of excellent advice>
> >
> > Listen to Leon
> >
> > I never use my router at highest speeds. Since routers don't have an
> > rpm indicator I just set mine a bit above median speed and make
> > multiple passes , removing a little wood at a time. More time
> > consuming but safer better results.
> >> >
> >> > "Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]...
> >> > > I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> >> > > softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am
> >> > > using the Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is
> >> > > this speed safe? There is no information on the Freud site
> >> > > concerning this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thank in advance
> >> > >
> >> > > Sean
> >> >
>
> Strange how thoughts seem to drop into my head these days, but...
>
> You weren't even CONSIDERING doing this without a well-secured router
table
> and a solidly attached fence, were you?
>
> Because that's a pretty reliable way to self-nominate for a Darwin Award.
>
> Are you feeling a bit nervous yet? Overconfidence with this tool causes
> lots of cleanup in the shop. And not necessarily by the one who was
> overconfident.
>
> Patriarch,
> who thinks there are a number of ways to get fancy raised panel doors,
> safely. Calling a CNC-enabled millwork shop is one of the most
> attractive...
Thank you Tom, you and Bridger have attempted to explain the error of my
thinking and with Bridger's start and your finish I believe I see the light.
Oh, and uh er uh... since you left, the wreck has been much more
enjoyable... Not because YOU left but because of those that left just after
you did. :~)
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:33 GMT, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >A drawback to the vertical is that they only work on straight pieces of
> >wood. You cannot use them on stock that is curved or rounded.
> >
> >
>
>
> Let's say you have a curved-top panel (or a piece of radiused window
> casing - that sorta thing) that you want to raise and you want to use
> a vertically oriented cutter.
>
> (this also works for things like quirk and bead cutters that only come
> oriented to the vertical)
>
> You cut your panel out in the flat and you take a piece of mdf or ply
> and cut a radius in it to match the outside radius of the curved part
> of the panel. This saddle should be no thicker than the minimum
> finished thickness of the piece that you will sit on it.
>
> Screw on another piece of mdf or ply onto the back of this curved
> saddle. This provides a backstop so the piece has something to
> register to. I also put some braces on to give the thing some
> rigidity.
>
> Clamp this contraption to the fence, or, what I usually do, add a
> piece of mdf or ply at a ninety on the bottom and clamp the whole
> thing to the top - and let the fence go visit its relatives for a
> spell.
>
> Now you raise your cutter to the appropriate height and set the
> contraption up so that you will take a very light pass when the curved
> top slides past the cutter in the curved saddle.
>
> Fire up the machine and feed the curved piece into it slowly - making
> sure to keep it pressed tight to the backer piece that you screwed to
> the saddle.
>
> Work your way in until your at the full depth of cut.
>
> BTW - I usually hot melt on a couple of blocks to the face of the
> panel, so as to have a good grip on things. Also, do your curved part
> before shaping the straight parts - as the failure rate is highest at
> the curve and it will piss you off less than having to throw away a
> bad curve after making perfect straights. Then too, I always do the
> biggest panels first, so that I can cut them into smaller useable
> panels if I screw them up.
>
> That's about it.
>
> Good Luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Tom.
>
> Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:33 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A drawback to the vertical is that they only work on straight pieces of
>wood. You cannot use them on stock that is curved or rounded.
>
>
Let's say you have a curved-top panel (or a piece of radiused window
casing - that sorta thing) that you want to raise and you want to use
a vertically oriented cutter.
(this also works for things like quirk and bead cutters that only come
oriented to the vertical)
You cut your panel out in the flat and you take a piece of mdf or ply
and cut a radius in it to match the outside radius of the curved part
of the panel. This saddle should be no thicker than the minimum
finished thickness of the piece that you will sit on it.
Screw on another piece of mdf or ply onto the back of this curved
saddle. This provides a backstop so the piece has something to
register to. I also put some braces on to give the thing some
rigidity.
Clamp this contraption to the fence, or, what I usually do, add a
piece of mdf or ply at a ninety on the bottom and clamp the whole
thing to the top - and let the fence go visit its relatives for a
spell.
Now you raise your cutter to the appropriate height and set the
contraption up so that you will take a very light pass when the curved
top slides past the cutter in the curved saddle.
Fire up the machine and feed the curved piece into it slowly - making
sure to keep it pressed tight to the backer piece that you screwed to
the saddle.
Work your way in until your at the full depth of cut.
BTW - I usually hot melt on a couple of blocks to the face of the
panel, so as to have a good grip on things. Also, do your curved part
before shaping the straight parts - as the failure rate is highest at
the curve and it will piss you off less than having to throw away a
bad curve after making perfect straights. Then too, I always do the
biggest panels first, so that I can cut them into smaller useable
panels if I screw them up.
That's about it.
Good Luck.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
NO.
10,000 is what you want. At 15,000 your router bit tip speed is near 230
mph. At 10,000 the tip speed is near 153 mph. It is you safety more than
anything that you should be concerned about here.
"Sean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am planning to make some raised panel doors from pine and other
> softwoods. My router has a minimum speed of 15,000 rpm. I am using the
> Freud cabinet bit set with a 3.5" raised panel bit. Is this speed
> safe? There is no information on the Freud site concerning this.
>
> Thank in advance
>
> Sean
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And the reason for going to all this trouble instead of just
> using a horizontal bit is ...?
Vertical bits don't have a speed limitation and don't need to be slowed down
to something like 10,000 rpm. Useful for older routers without speed
control. This is all aside from the fact that spinning a horizontal bit it
quite a bit more scary and has a higher level of danger attached to it than
a spinning vertical panel bit.