Wood is expensive

Wed, Jan 23, 2008, 6:58am (EST-3) [email protected] (Jeff) doth sayeth
that John done writ:
If you dig into the stuff you own you may be surprised. Just about
anything with a control system these days uses a microcomputer. TV sets,
watches, clocks, cars, microwave ovens, small appliances . To which you
writ:. .
Maybe he's doing a Ted Kaczynski and living off the grid...

I'm still on the grid, but as much as most of you Ill bet.

No computer, '78 Camino daily driver - in fact my only driver,
microwave maybe 15 years old, TV maybe 15 years old, clock maybe 15
years old, wind up pocket watch - when I carry a watch, coffee pot
on-off switch only, 4 calculators - none newer than several years - the
elcheapo kind. That's as exotic as it gets around here. Still on the
grid, but low key - and that's the way I prefer it. Oh yeah, I do carry
a cell phone, pre-paid - but it's turned off, emergency use only.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

J T wrote:
> No computer, '78 Camino daily driver - in fact my only driver,
> microwave maybe 15 years old, TV maybe 15 years old, clock maybe 15
> years old, wind up pocket watch - when I carry a watch, coffee pot
> on-off switch only, 4 calculators - none newer than several years -
> the elcheapo kind. That's as exotic as it gets around here. Still
> on the grid, but low key - and that's the way I prefer it. Oh yeah,
> I do carry a cell phone, pre-paid - but it's turned off, emergency
> use only.

Are you posting to the newsgroup from your coffee maker?


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www.LumpyMusic.com

Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 9:30am (EST-2) [email protected] (Lumpy)
doth queryeth:
Are you posting to the newsgroup from your coffee maker?

Yer not from around here, are ya? Don' need no steenkin' computer,
got WebTV.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:50:55 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:

> Yer not from around here, are ya? Don' need no steenkin' computer,
>got WebTV.

What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a
computer, you know...


Blog Me! http://BitchSpot.JadeDragonOnline.com

Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 8:41pm (EST+5) [email protected]
(Brian=A0Henderson) doth claimeth:
What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a
computer, you know...

Most of the people at the next to the last place I worked thought
they had computers. What they actually had were terminals, hooked into
the mainframe computers. What I think is that I've got something along
the same lines.. A compuer it ain't.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:50:25 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:

> Most of the people at the next to the last place I worked thought
>they had computers. What they actually had were terminals, hooked into
>the mainframe computers. What I think is that I've got something along
>the same lines.. A compuer it ain't.

It's still a computer, it's just a particularly limited,
single-purpose computer.


Blog Me! http://BitchSpot.JadeDragonOnline.com

[email protected] (J T) wrote in news:29522-47990821-234
@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net:

> Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 8:41pm (EST+5) [email protected]
> (Brian Henderson) doth claimeth:
>> What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a
>> computer, you know...
>
> Most of the people at the next to the last place I worked thought
> they had computers. What they actually had were terminals, hooked into
> the mainframe computers. What I think is that I've got something along
> the same lines.. A compuer it ain't.
>
>
>
> JOAT

You're right. It's not a compuer. It is, however, by definition a
computer. It processes, stores, and retrieves information via a logic-
based process. Thus, your WebTV box is a computer. QED.

Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 4:40am (EST+5) [email protected] (Puckdropper)
doth sayeth:
You're right. It's not a compuer. It is, however, by definition a
computer. It processes, stores, and retrieves information via a logic-
based process. Thus, your WebTV box is a computer. QED.

Not really. It's like a remote computer terminal, it accesses a
computer, which processes, stores, etc., but it can't do any of it on
its own, you disconnect a remote terman from the computer, and it won't
do a thing; whereas a PC can function on its own. Bottom line, WebTV
isn't near as flexible as a PC, can't download files, slow at times, but
it gives me web access, got a printer, let's me send and receive e-mail,
daily spam, that'll do for now..



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

[email protected] (J T) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 4:40am (EST+5) [email protected] (Puckdropper)
> doth sayeth:
> You're right. It's not a compuer. It is, however, by definition a
> computer. It processes, stores, and retrieves information via a logic-
> based process. Thus, your WebTV box is a computer. QED.
>
> Not really. It's like a remote computer terminal, it accesses a
> computer, which processes, stores, etc., but it can't do any of it on
> its own, you disconnect a remote terman from the computer, and it
> won't do a thing; whereas a PC can function on its own. Bottom line,
> WebTV isn't near as flexible as a PC, can't download files, slow at
> times, but it gives me web access, got a printer, let's me send and
> receive e-mail, daily spam, that'll do for now..
>
>
>
> JOAT
> 10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
> - Bumper Sticker
> I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

You're thinking of a computer as a personal computer, or a
microcomputer. Those are very specific classes of computers, there's
many many others. Your WebTV box is a computer, but not a
microcomputer.

Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 7:32pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Puckdropper)
doth sayeth:
You're thinking of a computer as a personal computer, or a
microcomputer. Those are very specific classes of computers, there's
many many others. Your WebTV box is a computer, but not a microcomputer.

Actually I was thinking of the main frames I used to run, with
remote terminals on the manufacturing floor, and in the offices.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

On Jan 25, 2:32 pm, Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (J T) wrote innews:[email protected]:


but not a microcomputer.


Actually, it is microcomputer. A term applied to the generation(s) of
computing devices employing micro-electronics ("chips") instead of te
original vacuum tubes, and relays employed in Einacs and such. The
IBM PC was one microcomputer, as was the Radio Shack Models I, II,
II, , Sinclair, Apple all PERSONAL Microcomputers as opposed to DECs
and such which were "impersonal" (:

On Jan 25, 1:26 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:

you disconnect a remote terminal from the computer, and it won't
> do a thing;

Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input,
process the keystrokes and produce output. You will note the evidence
of this on the remote terminal's monitor (if there is one) or at the
pin outs of the RS232C or other communications port.

Translating the "input" of one pressing the key in the upper left
corner of the keyboard into an "Escape" string, for instance, is
processing based upon software embedded in the ROM chips. That, absent
a monitor, you can see no evidence of this processing and concomitant
output does not prove the absence of the processing or delivery of the
output.

You are both right. I have seen and used both "dumb" and "smart" remote
terminals
J T wrote:
> Sat, Jan 26, 2008, 9:37am (EST-3) [email protected] (Hoosierpopi)
> claimeth:
> Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input,
> process the keystrokes and produce output. <snip>
>
> Not the ones I was working with. Unplug them from the computer,
> and they just sit there. Period. You could type on the keyboard all
> day long, and there would be zip on the screen. They didn't accept any
> input, they didn't put out any output, they didn't process zip. They
> accessed the mainframes, and that was it. Monitor, and keyboard, that
> was it. I'm ignoring you guys from here on out.
>
>
>
> JOAT
> 10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
> - Bumper Sticker
> I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.
>

Sat, Jan 26, 2008, 9:37am (EST-3) [email protected] (Hoosierpopi)
claimeth:
Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input,
process the keystrokes and produce output. <snip>

Not the ones I was working with. Unplug them from the computer,
and they just sit there. Period. You could type on the keyboard all
day long, and there would be zip on the screen. They didn't accept any
input, they didn't put out any output, they didn't process zip. They
accessed the mainframes, and that was it. Monitor, and keyboard, that
was it. I'm ignoring you guys from here on out.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

J T wrote:
> Sat, Jan 26, 2008, 9:37am (EST-3) [email protected]
> (Hoosierpopi) claimeth:
> Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input,
> process the keystrokes and produce output. <snip>
>
> Not the ones I was working with. Unplug them from the
> computer,
> and they just sit there. Period. You could type on the keyboard
> all
> day long, and there would be zip on the screen. They didn't accept
> any input, they didn't put out any output, they didn't process zip.
> They accessed the mainframes, and that was it. Monitor, and
> keyboard,
> that was it. I'm ignoring you guys from here on out.

Had the echo setting turned off. That might be a switch or a
keystroke combination.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Jan 25, 1:26 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:

Initially, the term "computer" was a job title.

Let me share my favorite basic (electronic) computer lsson:

A computer only "knows" two things. And does but three.

It "knows" "On" & "Off" and 1) accepts input 2) processes data (by
addition and subtraction only) and 3) produces output.

From the lowly ninety-nine cent keychain calculator to the world's
fastest CRAY, the story is the sam.

THe computer is based upon a Binary (Base Two) numbering system and
"There are no "twos" in the Binary numbering system.That list has
pretty much been abandoned,

As to the "10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President "
comment:

Ossamma Bin Laden was quoted prior to 911 as saying that he would
"change America forever."

His recruiting tools are based upon U.S. presence in the Middle East
and our support for a state of Israel and the Zionist's that operate
as if the state's creation and existence are a right. Instead of
emigrating to the region and living in peace as had thousands of Jes
before them, they insisted upon taking control of the waterfront and
more - dispossessing the existing population by force of (U.S.
supplied) arms.

The Taliban we armed and fostered to keep pressure on the USSR
employed a similar rationale for recruiting and were not supporting or
aim of access to the Soviet gas and oil reserves, but to keep their
land free of the Russian, Pakistani and (now) U.S. forces and
influences.

Our invasion of Iraq, our establishing bases along the Conoco pipe
line route and our failure to achieve an Iraqi solution to the war we
started absent evidence of the stated rationale have served to
dissuade many of our claimed altruistic motivation(s) and to reinforce
Al Kaida's raison d'etre and recruiting rationale..

We constitute a Western invasion seeking control of the area for
strategic purposes we deny despite the decades of evidence to the
contrary. Our needs for Middle East Oil are served by BP, SHELL,
CONOCO, and ARAMCO/AMOCO (British Pertroleum, Dutch Petroleum, US
Petroleum and US Petroleum corporations - offering moot testimony as
to allegations that our intentions are anything but honorable. And an
abundance of fodder for those urging the natives to rise up and
reclaim their landed rights.

If anything, Bush has the secret support of the terrorists whose
existence depends not on a peaceful solution returning their lands and
resources t home control but o our continued intervention in order to
maintain the flow of the regions rsources to our refineries and
Toyotas.

But there are those in this country whose profits have never been
greater that realize the turmoil is an economic Godsend. THese members
of our community need to keep us an armed camp to insure the flow of
profits into (what that great Republican president Eisenhower called)
the Military Industrial Complex.

Our military adventures serve to remove dollars from the electorate
and funnel them away from restoring our nation's ailing infrastructure
or programs to educate and care for our population into the pockets of
wealthy, influential "investors" whose stocks depend upon the
destruction and replacement of military hardware and whose sons seldom
serve and die in the conflicts they urge this erstwhile woodworker
support.

He has a cute bumper sticker, but its not a rationale foreign policy
statement and belies any claim to a considered approach to dealing
with a world grossly different (see India and China as the latest
major players) in style and substance from that Ronald Reagan dealt
with.

George Bush is but a sneaky puppet of a neo-conservative movement born
in the Reagan years and so focused upon its initial formulation of an
ideology as to ignore the changes swiftly bearing down upon us and
trying desparetly to engage the current scenarios with the tools of
their fathers.

We have borrowed incessantly to pay the costs of this eight year
incursion into the quagmire of Middle East affairs stubbornly
believing that it will turn around in the next six months or so
despite eighty years of evidence to the contrary.

We are known less today for our stated ideals than for our actions
seen to maintain our position of power and influence regardless the
human and economic costs to those we label as our enemies and even to
our own people.

One has to wonder if other failed nations came to this point and
failed to realize it before their end.

Sat, Jan 26, 2008, 9:31am (EST-3) [email protected] (Hoosierpopi)
On Jan 25, 1:26 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
Initially, the term "computer" was a job title. <SNIP of the rest>

No I didn't, I didn't write any of that.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

"Rod & Betty Jo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Puckdropper wrote:
>> You're thinking of a computer as a personal computer, or a
>> microcomputer. Those are very specific classes of computers, there's
>> many many others. Your WebTV box is a computer, but not a
>> microcomputer.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
> I'd think WEBTV it is more of a terminal than a computer
>
>
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/computer
> computer (km-pytr)
> A programmable machine that performs high-speed processing of numbers, as
> well as of text, graphics, symbols, and sound. All computers contain a
> central processing unit that interprets and executes instructions; input
> devices, such as a keyboard and a mouse, through which data and commands
> enter the computer; memory that enables the computer to store programs and
> data; and output devices, such as printers and display screens, that show
> the results after the computer has processed data.

a webtv computer matches your definition. so does a modern cash register,
for that matter.

the term you're searching for is a general purpose computer, which a webtv
is not. it could be thought of more as a specific purpose controller rather
than a computer.

regards,
charlie
http://glassartists.org/chaniarts

Hoosierpopi wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2:32 pm, Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] (J T) wrote
>> innews:[email protected]:
>
>
> but not a microcomputer.
>
>
> Actually, it is microcomputer. A term applied to the generation(s)
> of
> computing devices employing micro-electronics ("chips") instead of
> te
> original vacuum tubes, and relays employed in Einacs and such. The
> IBM PC was one microcomputer, as was the Radio Shack Models I, II,
> II, , Sinclair, Apple all PERSONAL Microcomputers as opposed to DECs
> and such which were "impersonal" (:

Most people wouldn't think of a Tivo as a "computer". Plug one into a
network and try to telnet the IP address and see what happens.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J T wrote:
> Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 8:41pm (EST+5)
> [email protected]
> (Brian Henderson) doth claimeth:
> What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a
> computer, you know...
>
> Most of the people at the next to the last place I worked
> thought
> they had computers. What they actually had were terminals, hooked
> into the mainframe computers. What I think is that I've got
> something along the same lines.. A compuer it ain't.

Actually if it's a typical WebTV box then it's a 64-bit RISC computer
with a proprietary operating system in firmware. The CPU is fully
capable of running Linux or other operating systems, the box can't
because it's been deliberately crippled to prevent any other OS from
being installed.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 12:49am [email protected] (J.=A0Clarke) doth
sayeth:
Actually if it's a typical WebTV box then it's a 64-bit RISC computer
with a proprietary operating system in firmware. The CPU is fully
capable of running Linux or other operating systems, the box can't
because it's been deliberately crippled to prevent any other OS from
being installed.
Ah. Thank you. Didn't understand a bit of it. LOL



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

[email protected] (J T) wrote:

> Oh yeah, I do carry
> a cell phone, pre-paid - but it's turned off, emergency use only.
>

I'll second the cell phone thing. Damn if I can figure out why anyone would
want to be instantly available to all and sundry. I don't even answer the
land line. Got a machine does that. If I don't call back, I probably don't
want to talk to you. :)

Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 5:23am (EST+5) [email protected]
(Lobby=A0Dosser) doth sayeth:
I'll second the cell phone thing. Damn if I can figure out why anyone
would want to be instantly available to all and sundry. I don't even
answer the land line. Got a machine does that. If I don't call back, I
probably don't want to talk to you. :)

My answering machine died a few years back and I never replaced it.
Now I don't come back home to messages wanting me to call someone.
Yesterday I got a call from someone that had been trying since Mon to
get ahold of me. Heh heh. Not to try to sell me sumpin, but to deliver
sompin. I was available for alll but about an hour each day. I prefer
the no answering machine method.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 4:55pm [email protected] (J.=A0Clarke) doth
sayeth:
I understand that one of Rome's "secret weapons" was their plywood
shields. Think what could have happened if somebody had showed them how
to make Lexan.

Be happy they didn't discover how to make gunpowder.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

J T wrote:
> Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 4:55pm [email protected] (J. Clarke) doth
> sayeth:
> I understand that one of Rome's "secret weapons" was their plywood
> shields. Think what could have happened if somebody had showed them
> how to make Lexan.
>
> Be happy they didn't discover how to make gunpowder.

Why be happy? Rome was the bright hope of the world at the time.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

> J T wrote:
>> Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 7:11pm [email protected] (J. Clarke) doth
>> queryeth:
>> Why be happy? Rome was the bright hope of the world at the time.
>>
>> Yeah, if you were Roman.
>
> Yeah, and there were two ways to get to be Roman--be borne there or
> get conquered.
>

One could also pay for citizenship -- often a fairly substantial amount of
money.

IIRC, being a citizen of a conquered country did not make one a Roman, it
only made one subject to Roman rule and a second class citizen relative to
the real Roman citizens.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 7:11pm [email protected] (J.=A0Clarke) doth
queryeth:
Why be happy? Rome was the bright hope of the world at the time.

Yeah, if you were Roman.



JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President
- Bumper Sticker
I don't have a problem with a woman president - just not Hillary.

J T wrote:
> Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 7:11pm [email protected] (J. Clarke) doth
> queryeth:
> Why be happy? Rome was the bright hope of the world at the time.
>
> Yeah, if you were Roman.

Yeah, and there were two ways to get to be Roman--be borne there or
get conquered.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)