"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>> Ken wrote:
>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in
>> America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this
>> about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>
>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He
>> was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
>> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
>> his VIN and see for himself.
>>
>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai
>> and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to
>> open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>
>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants
>> out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and
>> Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US
>> based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
>>
>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
>> you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>
> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has been
> "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US consumer
> electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping on the solid
> state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
> I don't blame that
> Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
> innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry was
> stagnating.
>
Bob Martin wrote:
>
> My IBM T41 ThinkPad was made in China - it's beautifully engineered.
> (Actually made by Lenovo but at that time was still allowed to put IBM
> badge on it.)
I wonder what else they put in it? Like some kind of spyware chip? I wonder
where the Defense Dept. gets their puters? And why on earth are they still
using WindBlows. What a bunch of Pinheads.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:35:38 +0100, J. Clarke wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
>
> What do Univac computers have to do with consumer electronics?
I predict that in the near future every home will have one, and housewives
wearing silver-foil jump-suits will use them for the household accounts or
while away their leisure time playing chess with them or storing recipes in
the memory tanks which can easiy be refilled and upgraded by having mercury
delivered to the door just as today we have milk...
They will even be able to play a selection of melodies on the household piano
by means of an attachment which fits over the keys and faithfully replays
compositions stored in the memory tanks. Now every home will be able to have
music!
The control bank will fit neatly in beside the wireless telegraphy televisual
receiving apparatus and the radium-ray steak cooker so housewives can easily
pause for the hour when it is time for the picture information broadcast
which will, it is envisaged, come into their homes every single day to
deliver government news and messages from friends and family - except Sunday,
of course, when the flow of electricity will be stopped as a mark of respect.
What excitement tomorrow promises, thanks to the miracle of the electron and
the vision of us here at the Omnivac Corporation of America!
Some road rager was having a fit the other day because he couldn't get
in front of me. Traffic was really congested. When he finally had a
chance to go around, I looked over and thought "Hey, that dude's
driving a 'VIBE' ... what a tough guy...". I can also imagine some
teenage girl asking the folks "can I take out the vibe tonight?"
Seriously. Who was stupid enough to come up with that name?
J. Clarke wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:04:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
>>
>>> Philco had the Transac S-2000 series computer out which included them
>>> new-fangled solid state devices quite early (1958). They had hybrid
>>> models of the series even earlier (showing my age, I used them... :)
>>> ).
>> IIRC, the Univac SS-80/90 came out about the same time. Remember
>> excess 5 alphanumerics?
>
> What do Univac computers have to do with consumer electronics?
>
>
They were the personal computers of the day, viz. your job took up the
entire machine. :-)
mr. Burroughs E101
jo4hn
Ya know folks, if it's sold in the USA, then it's the guy who is selling
it to you without telling you about its problems who is at fault. Up
line from him is the American importer who also knows what he's pushing
off on us.
It won't get any better until we place the pressure where it can do
some good.
WE ALL have to return EVERY bad product and DEMAND satisfaction.
The enemy is US! Don't be complacent!!!
I bought a couple dozen sheets of that kind of plywood from Menard's (up
here in western Wisconsin) and about half of it delaminated. I used it
up as best I could. I went back to the store a week or two later to buy
something else and simply complained to a manager about it. I told him
I'd never buy plywood there again. He said I should bring the receipt
in and they'd do something for me. I did, and we negotiated a 50%
return of the cost of the stuff. If enough people did that, they'd
loose enough money that they'd HAVE to push for better stuff.
Pete Stanaitis
------------------------
samson wrote:
> I'm never using it again.
>
> S.
on 6/15/2009 3:16 AM (ET) Alan Petrillo wrote the following:
> Ken wrote:
>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in
> America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this
> about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>
> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He
> was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
> his VIN and see for himself.
My Nissan hardbody was made in Smyrna, Tennessee. My old 1976 Ford Elite
was made in Canada.
All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
since 1992.
>
> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai
> and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to
> open a US plant and start building cars here.
>
> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants
> out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and
> Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US
> based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
>
> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
> you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>
>
>
> AP
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
In article <[email protected]>, scritch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
> "socialism". From what I understand Canada has much stronger
> protections for workers, AND national health care, yet our great
> American auto manufacturers find it cheaper to build cars and parts in
> Canada than here in the good ol' "free-market" United States.
Ever heard of the Auto Pact between the US and Canada?
<http://www.canadianeconomy.gc.ca/English/economy/1965canada_us_auto_pac
t.html>
It's only been around since 1965...
"The Auto Pact eliminated trade tariffs between the two countries and
created a single North American manufacturing market. Tariffs between
the two countries were eliminated on cars, trucks, buses, tires and
automotive parts. The single market allowed Chrysler, Ford and General
Motors to rationalize production in Canada and the United States and
form a single integrated production and marketing system."
--
Kiva - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/lender/david87375440
spaco wrote:
> Ya know folks, if it's sold in the USA, then it's the guy who is selling
> it to you without telling you about its problems who is at fault. Up
> line from him is the American importer who also knows what he's pushing
> off on us.
> It won't get any better until we place the pressure where it can do
> some good.
> WE ALL have to return EVERY bad product and DEMAND satisfaction.
> The enemy is US! Don't be complacent!!!
>
> I bought a couple dozen sheets of that kind of plywood from Menard's (up
> here in western Wisconsin) and about half of it delaminated. I used it
> up as best I could. I went back to the store a week or two later to buy
> something else and simply complained to a manager about it. I told him
> I'd never buy plywood there again. He said I should bring the receipt
> in and they'd do something for me. I did, and we negotiated a 50%
> return of the cost of the stuff. If enough people did that, they'd
> loose enough money that they'd HAVE to push for better stuff.
>
> Pete Stanaitis
> ------------------------
>
> samson wrote:
>> I'm never using it again.
>>
>> S.
Lot of times it's just the aggravation of having to load up the crap and
drive the distance and lug it into the store and wait in line and get the
fifth degree from the moron behind the register. All because a product
can't be made right or the idiots making it don't give a shit.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
The auto makers have moved out of Detroit. Many have gone to the
south due to cheap labor and no unions. Nearly every auto
manufacturer is making cars in the US now and new factories have been
springing up all over the US during the past 5 years. Leaving the
decades old model of car manufacturing behind has worked well for
Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and BMW. In the meantime,
traditional US auto makers stuck to their old method of doing business
and went downhill. The new factories have great benefits for their
workers. They're very clean, new and well run. Building in the US
cuts down on costs and allows manufacturers to study the local
market. States who didn't work hard to woo auto makers lost out. So
did unions who worked against the companies they depended on.
I think some Chinese products have their place but I am tired of not
having a US alternative. Tools are probably the best example to
people here. Somebody designed a lunch box planer years ago. Today I
can buy that lunchbox planer in white, orange, yellow, gray, blue and
probably some other colors I missed. They're all made from the same
design, to approximately the same specs and probably even come from
the same factories. Several US companies decide to buy X number of
these lunch box planers in their color of choice and price them within
several hundred dollars of each other. There is no real difference
between them besides the color and company graphics. This is only one
example of hundreds that I could probably find. What I really want is
a choice between 5 or 6 different designs rather than 5 or 6 different
colors. Then I can judge each one based on their design and
performance parameters. Otherwise I have to just pick one up in
whatever color I favor for no valid reason. Hmmm....should I buy the
Ridid for $300 or the Steel City for $500?
The problem of not having good product choices is the result of greedy
US companies who want to import <any> widget to make as much $$$ as
they can. None of them have any desire to build good or unique
products. None of them have pride in supporting US workers. It's all
about how much $$$ they can make for the board, CEO and other
directors. Unfortunately that is exactly what our economy is designed
for and it's what the US prides itself on. And not one of us can
individually change it. I can't hurt Delta's business badly enough
for them to design and build a planer in the US. Same for Rigid,
DeWalt, Steel City or any other US owned/operated tool peddler.
What we really need is a US tool company that makes good quality tools
in the US.
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:36:16 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>evodawg wrote:
>> evodawg wrote:
>>
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper
>>>> stickers
>>>> saying "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any
>>>> more than you do
>>>> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took
>>>> them
>>>> -- and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed
>>>> to *build* what America *buys*.
>>>
>>> Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension
>>> deals with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US
>>> Auto Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go
>>> into
>>> a hardware store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world
>>> coming to???????
>>>
>> Or anything else for that matter.
>
>I don't know what is is with you people that you can't find decent
>products. Maybe if you worried more about function and less about
>place of manufacture you'd be happier.
>
>--
The reason for worry about the place of manufacture is probably due to
our experience with crap from said place of manufacture.
Personally, I was never one to blindly buy American, only America, no
matter what. Whoever made the best for the money got my business.
That meant no American cars, but some pretty good American tools (just
2 examples). Today, you can't find much not made in China, and I've
become one who looks for the "Made In USA" (or Europe) sticker 'cause
most of the junk from China is just that.
Another example/point. Now-days, even fine china (American and
European) is made in China. As is the cheap stuff. So much for
distinction. Not to mention a little extra lead (hey, if lead crystal
is good, why not leaded dishes?). The question is, is China going to
be the manufacturing center of the entire planet? If so, what are the
rest of us going to do? Do they have the capacity to handle this task
(entire planet)? Of course, if the rest is mostly unemployed
(engineering and design staff goes where the manufacturing resides),
or flipping burgers, maybe they won't have to worry so much about
capacity...
Renata
On Jul 31, 3:32=A0pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frank Boettcher wrote:
>
> > I had a union. =A0They were highly productive, cooperative,
> > collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
> > in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. =A0Horrible corporat=
e
> > management strategy was the root cause for that.
>
> My Toyota Tacoma is UAW built in Fremont, CA, in a former GM plant.
>
> Same worker pool, same location, properly managed, building a
> well-designed product.
"Build it right, or we close the plant."
How is that for an incentive package? (It's about frickin' time!)
Ken wrote:
> I'd push an AMERICAN vehicle, before I'd buy Foreign CRAP, that goes for
> anything. I have a lot of old tools because of this Motto. Support your
> economy , and it will support you,
>
> Pet Peeve, Honda with bumper sticker SUPPORT your Troops,
>
How many vehicles does Honda build in the US?
How many vehicles do the "American" companies build in Mexico and Canada?
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:05:14 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>... the US consumer
>electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping on the solid
>state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
<snip>
hahaha... I got a laugh out of this.
Its not that the US industry was caught flat footed. The US was
innovating... Doing everything to fight the transistor.
First there was the Compactron tube. Remember those... It jammed the
functionality of multiple tubes into one envelope and cost a fortune
to replace.
Then there was a whole slew of 1 volt filament tubes that enabled the
US industry to make "portable" radios that ran off a bunch of D cells
and a 45v B battery.
And finally there was the "Nuvistor". It's name even sounds like
Transistor. It was a teeny little tube designed specifically to fight
against the transistor. It looked just like a transistor too.
So yep, we killed ourselves. But it's not that we weren't innovating.
It's just that we were innovating the wrong things.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
>> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
>> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>>
>> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>>
>> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
>> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
>> do that?
>>
>> Frank
>
>
>I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a
>few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs,
>benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If
>indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
>
>Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their
>table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
>
If it is, it's about time, before their reputation makes the last
circuit around the drain.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:57:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On packaged stuff from China, as a matter of routine, I buy it and
>>open and inspect right there in the store. Saves gas getting to the
>>returns desk. learned that the hard way.
>
>Saves even more time if you set it aside the moment you see the magic words
>"Made in China" and get something better instead.
>
A great strategy but sometimes difficult to follow. My last
experience was buying a strainer basket for a sink I was installing.
In the local outlets all offerings were made in china. Took three to
get one where the threads on the basket and tail piece nut actually
matched and would hold.
Frank
Lee Michaels wrote:
> I learned long ago to go to an industrial fastener place for my fasteners.
> It took more time, but it saved me an incredible amount of grief and money.
> And the price isn't bad either when you buy in quantity.
In the spirit of fine woodworking, I made a trip to Fastenal and bought
a big box of stainless steel pop rivets to use with my HF pneumatic
riveting tool. :-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Of course if this is a raw material purchase at Lowes or H/D, you already
>> accet the fact you are buying garbage.
>
> There are a couple exceptions to this. I know of at least one person who
> buys S2S secondary wood there because he can pick through the whole stack
> and only take *perfect* boards.
Done that. I was in HD picking up something and needed some clear pine but
didn't want to drive all the way to my wood supplier for a couple of boards.
Went over to the wood racks and there was no clear pine being sold. But, I
looked at some pine in the #3 pine stack and there were 2 eight foot boards
without a single knot, no cupping, no warping. I picked them up and cashed
out. Probably paid a little more than my wood supplier would charge, but I
didn't have to burn gas nor take the time to get there.
Ken wrote:
> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
> next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in
America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this
about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He
was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and mine
was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN
and see for himself.
The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai
and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to
open a US plant and start building cars here.
In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants
out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and
Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US
based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
AP
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Alan
> Petrillo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
>>you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>
> And where the parts were made. My son's Firebird was built in the U.S.,
> but an
> awful lot of the individual parts are stamped "Made in Canada".
I once had two GM Olds Sierras, one made in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada and one
made in Georgia, USA, the city I don't remember. While they were basically
the same design, there were significant differences in the construction. The
Canadian car lasted for about 10 years while the Georgia car was nothing but
trouble, transmission had to be replaced, I was on the third rack and pinion
steering, it would stall going over every speed bump plus other problems.
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Uhmmm.... you got it wrong. We did the innovation in electronics and
> new products. Japan innovated in production and marketing.
And copying - at least in the early days.
In article <[email protected]>,
LD <[email protected]> wrote:
> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
> Taxpayers.
Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
On Jun 15, 10:35=A0am, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The
> Canadian car lasted for about 10 years while the Georgia car was nothing =
but
> trouble, [snipped for effect]
THIS!
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:49:08 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 31, 9:21 am, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:18:38 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> >> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>> >> next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>
>> >Next for automotive? Have you looked around in a parking lot in the past 10
>> >years?
>>
>> >Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a lonely
>> >Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. Back lot is better,
>> >about 60 -40 in favor of US.
>>
>> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
>> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
>> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>>
>> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>>
>> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
>> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
>> do that?
>>
>> Frank
>
>liberally snipped a portiion
>Mind you, there are many examples of the need for organized labour.
>Textiles, coal mining etc.... but the car industry, the rail roads and
>many other examples also prove that a union can screw and entire
>industry out of existence. The worker 'sticking it to the man' will do
>that. The 'man sticking it to the worker' will do that too. Big
>management and big unions have been behaving like idiots.
Don't disagree but I would suggest that consistently bad management is
the root cause for creating and environment that allows the union to
get to that point. If the tail is wagging the dog it's cause the dog
stuck his head in the sand.
I had a union. They were highly productive, cooperative,
collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. Horrible corporate
management strategy was the root cause for that.
>
>I think it is time that shareholders look into their portfolios and
>dump those assholes and start supporting manufacturers who treat their
>much needed, skilled workforce with respect, so that they have a
>chance of survival. This ain't 1870 no mo'!
Ever look at the stock movement the day after a company announces they
are closing a plant and moving offshore? Stock goes up every time.
Doesn't matter if it is the right thing to do or not, investors just
assume it is.
>
>
>*outta here*
>
>r
On Jul 30, 9:06=A0am, Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Aside, but vaguely related. =A0Went to lunch with some buddies from
> work. =A0One had just been to Taiwan. =A0He and a couple others were
> Chinese (but US citizens, etc., etc.). =A0In Taiwan, he said a lot of
> the people are carrying chopsticks with them that they pull out of
> their purse at the restaurant. =A0Why? =A0'Cause the chopsticks in the
> restaurant are from China and may have some nasty chemicals used to
> "sterilize" them. =A0
Non-disposable chopsticks have been carried to restaurants for a far
longer time than China has been a manufacturing player. I bring them
because I don't like the rough texture of the cheap chopsticks. I
don't trust too much coming out of China, but there's also
scaremongering and a bit of urban legend at play.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/chopsticks.asp
R
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:18:55 +0100, Stuart <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>> Taxpayers.
>
>Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
And we're taxed heavier than the Yanks too.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:16:09 -0400, Alan Petrillo
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ken wrote:
>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>> next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
>Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in
>America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this
>about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>
>I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He
>was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and mine
>was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN
>and see for himself.
>
>The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai
>and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to
>open a US plant and start building cars here.
>
>In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants
>out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and
>Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US
>based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
>
>So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
>you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>
>
>
>AP
How true - my 2008 Toyota Tacoma was built in California on the same
line that built some Pontiac models that year. The previous vehicle
was a 1989 Nissan pickup that was built in Tennessee.
A true US-built car?
One that's built in your garage, using 50-year-old tools and a
40-year-old Briggs & Stratton engine ;-)
John
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving
>>>>>>>>> to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>>>>> "American Made"
>>>>
>>>> DAGS Lots were American Made.
>>>
>>> FYGS.
>>
>>
>> IOW, you don't want to know ...
>
> I'm just sick of people who have no sources instructing other to "DAGS".
> If
> you can't be assed to do the search yourself and post the relevant links
> then up yours and the horse you rode in on.
>
And your sources for the Original Assertion are
____________________________________
"Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>> Taxpayers.
>
> Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
>
Get this, the auto workers are not the Only taxpayers!
On Jul 31, 3:20 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Frank Boettcher wrote:
> >> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
> >> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
> >> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>
> >> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>
> >> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
> >> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
> >> do that?
>
> >> Frank
>
> >I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a
> >few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs,
> >benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If
> >indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
>
> I'm sure that's why they're here. Bring a plant into an area where
> the average fully benefit loaded manufacturing wage is about
> $20/hour, finding labor is not going to be a problem.
>
>
>
> >Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their
> >table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
>
> The Unisaw never left. Built in Jackson, TN, but with a higher
> foreign content in components. The sheet metal is fabricated in
> Jackson and the unit is assembled and painted there, components come
> from the far east, Mexico and Brazil.
>
> Regarding any others, I don't know. Of the 6-700 fine, knowledgable,
> people who worked for Delta prior to the consolidation in 2000 there
> are approximately 10 left with the company. Mostly field sales. I
> have no contacts left to stay up with what is happening.
>
> Frank
Many of the management, design and sales people moved to an outfit
called Steel City Toolworks. I very much like the tools they're
currently offering, even though the units all seem to be
offshore...but, then, very little isn't these days.
On Jul 31, 9:21=A0am, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:18:38 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
> >> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. =A0We've already lost the electron=
ics,
> >> next will be the Automotive, =A0WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
> >Next for automotive? =A0Have you looked around in a parking lot in the p=
ast 10
> >years?
>
> >Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a lonel=
y
> >Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. =A0Back lot is b=
etter,
> >about 60 -40 in favor of US.
>
> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. =A0Brand new Toyota plant 20
> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. =A0 Going to build trucks and SUV's?
> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>
> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. =A0Building Altima's.
>
> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
> offer it in high quality and be successful. =A0Why can't the US brands
> do that?
>
> Frank
I have Toyota and Honda all within an hour's drive from me. Many
government vehicles, yes even the Ministry Of Transport, driving
Camry's.
I also live near Windsor, where the US automotive cancer has claimed
many fatalities over the last several years. Ford, GM and Chrysler are
all having huge problems.
Since I was prodded for an opinion <g>, I am now 100% sure it was all
related to union issues, one way or another.
We have a plant in our fair city (http://www.ubesarnia.com/) which
employs a lot of happy people. Happy managers, make happy workers,
make good products, BECAUSE THEY 'GET IT'. Their wheels are good
enough for Bentley. When one member of a team acts up and won't carry
his load, he gets dealt with by his peers. If he doesn't like what's
happening to him, LEAVE!
It is all about management and employees understanding each other. The
days of 'mean' bosses in the car industry are pretty much over. They
have proven what that union attitude gets them.... on BOTH sides of
the line.
Mind you, there are many examples of the need for organized labour.
Textiles, coal mining etc.... but the car industry, the rail roads and
many other examples also prove that a union can screw and entire
industry out of existence. The worker 'sticking it to the man' will do
that. The 'man sticking it to the worker' will do that too. Big
management and big unions have been behaving like idiots.
I think it is time that shareholders look into their portfolios and
dump those assholes and start supporting manufacturers who treat their
much needed, skilled workforce with respect, so that they have a
chance of survival. This ain't 1870 no mo'!
Oh... and fuck Walmart. THEY are the sunsabitches who are largely
responsible for twisting the consumers' minds into believing that
everything is cheap and all is well. The average consumers have
painted themselves into a corner. Have fun with that, folks. See you
all in in the bread-lines.
THE place to start, is to hassle Chinese products. Tariff the shit out
of them. Turn that 29 dollar DVD player into a 50 dollar DVD player,
and put that 20 bucks into a fund to promote ON shore business
development. Because it isn't FAIR trade if tariffs are applied by
'them' but not 'us'.
I always ask myself what I can do for my customer, and never ask
myself what my customer can do for me.... other than for him/her to be
happy with the service I have provided. Imagine a guy on the assembly
line thinking like that.
Put Americanadian big transport on a new electrified railroad system,
power it with nukes. Develop high speed rail, so we can do with fewer
regional aircraft. In the meantime start drilling for oil and start
working on clean coal. The Chinese are drilling off Cuba, for fuck
sakes..do THEY give a fuck about Florida's beaches?
Chinese plywood???? Pffffft.. the picture is a little bigger than
that. And yes, stop buying the shit and either one of two things will
happen, they stop sending crap like that or they will make it better
at a higher price, giving our plywood guys a fighting chance to
compete. Tariffs are our friends.
WILL you look at the time??
*outta here*
r
"LD" <[email protected]> writes:
> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>> I don't blame that
>> Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
>> innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry was
>> stagnating.
Uhmmm.... you got it wrong. We did the innovation in electronics and
new products. Japan innovated in production and marketing.
nb
"LD" <[email protected]> writes:
> You are either talking about the Trans-Oceanic, or were living on
> another planet. DAGS
I'd dispute that statement ....if I had a clue what yer talking about.
nb
"LD" <[email protected]> writes:
> You never had a US Made Zenith or Motorola transistor radio?
In fact, we did. When I was a boy back in '56-57, mom bought a Zenith
transistor radio. The thing was the size of a breadbox, weighed about
5-6lbs, and had a battery the size 2lb brick of cheese. Worked great.
By the early '60s, most transistor radios were the size of a pack of
ez-read playing cards and made in Japan.
As early as 1954 the Japanese had already cornered the tv market and
were flooding the USA with underpriced TVs through Sears and Wards.
Japanese housewives marched on the Ministry of Commerce(?) in protest
of Japan's dumping policies at the expense of Japanese taxpayers.
Americans could buy a TV cheaper than the Japanese.
This voracious marketing tactic (dumping) lasted for years, up through
stereo systems, cameras, motorcycles, and eventually cars. The
Japanese didn't exactly "copy", the took what we had innovated and
then dicarded and improved on it and created a manufacturing base that
blew us away. Yes, they out innovated us in some areas, cameras
lenses for one, but most of it was still copy/improvement and taking a
throw-away approach to keep prices competitive.
One perfect example is motorcycles. The japanese didn't invent
overhead cams. They just discovered a way to make them so the cam
turned in the bare aluminum head casting without the expense of bearings. Cheap,
effective, and tossable, so there was no point in rebuilding. Buy a
new one instead, and the Japanese design teams always had a new one
(or ten!) in the ready.
nb
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:18:38 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>> next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>
>
>Next for automotive? Have you looked around in a parking lot in the past 10
>years?
>
>Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a lonely
>Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. Back lot is better,
>about 60 -40 in favor of US.
>
Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
Nope, going to build the Prius.
Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
do that?
Frank
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:20:09 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 30, 9:06 am, Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Aside, but vaguely related. Went to lunch with some buddies from
>> work. One had just been to Taiwan. He and a couple others were
>> Chinese (but US citizens, etc., etc.). In Taiwan, he said a lot of
>> the people are carrying chopsticks with them that they pull out of
>> their purse at the restaurant. Why? 'Cause the chopsticks in the
>> restaurant are from China and may have some nasty chemicals used to
>> "sterilize" them.
>
>Non-disposable chopsticks have been carried to restaurants for a far
>longer time than China has been a manufacturing player. I bring them
>because I don't like the rough texture of the cheap chopsticks. I
>don't trust too much coming out of China, but there's also
>scaremongering and a bit of urban legend at play.
>http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/chopsticks.asp
>
>R
Urban legend or not, the guy who was recounting the tale had just
returned from a trip to Taiwan (was Taiwanese himself), and several
other diners also hailed from thereabouts (though they hadn't recently
visited, but do still have family there). BTW, all used the
chopsticks provided by the (USA) restaurant where we dined.
Aside. Had the occasion to use my Porter Cable ROS (barrel grip one)
last night. Sticker caught my eye - "Proudly Made in the USA".
Renata
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LD" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> You are either talking about the Trans-Oceanic, or were living on
>> another planet. DAGS
>
> I'd dispute that statement ....if I had a clue what yer talking about.
>
> nb
http://www.antiqueradio.org/transoceanics.htm
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Dx3kk.506$JH5.188@trnddc06...
> samson wrote:
>
>> I'm never using it again.
>>
>> S.
> I hung a mirror for customer the other day. Used 2 heavy duty lags, well
> the
> head of one lag sheered off and the mirror came crashing to the tile
> floor.
> Damage, the mirror broke into pieces, the frame also broke, the tile under
> the mirror cracked. The screw cost how much? Later I find out its not even
> made of steel, its made from Zinc and made in China. I charged $50.00 to
> hang the mirror. It will cost much more than that to replace the tile and
> the mirror, not to mention fixing the scratch on the wall. All because of
> a
> lousy screw. Thanks China, for turning a life long customer into a lost
> irate one. Wondering where you go for customer support for something like
> this? Freakin Chinese CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
I learned long ago to go to an industrial fastener place for my fasteners.
It took more time, but it saved me an incredible amount of grief and money.
And the price isn't bad either when you buy in quantity.
"samson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm never using it again.
>
> S.
Let me see if your reason is the same as mine
Went to lumber yard and purchased a 3/4 sheet of furniture grade birch
plywood to cut into pieces about 14 inches by 18 inches for a project. The
plywood was only about 3/4 usable due to voids in the material, lost another
few pieces due to lamanite seperation. Finaly got 8 "good" blocks out of
the sheet. Out of the 8 two warped out of shape, so now out of the 12 I
needed I have 6 usable blocks and those are from good to fair. While
cutting I had a stink in the shop worse then a skunk just not as powerful
and went away quickly, while routing the blocks I hit metal and ruined a new
30 dollar router bit. I now have $30 invested in wood and $30 in a router
bit and only half of material for my project. Went back to lumber yard
purchased a 3/4 inch sheet of furniture grade birch plywood made in Canada,
cost $50, got all 12 blocks out of it, no stink while cutting, no metal to
ruin router bit, no voids, no warping
Is this sad tale something like what you are going through? Sad part is
that the lumber yard only carries the china made ply now except by special
order.
in 105560 20090616 231757 Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Uhmmm.... you got it wrong. We did the innovation in electronics and
>> new products. Japan innovated in production and marketing.
>
>And copying - at least in the early days.
There used to be a saying in Britain that went something like
"the British invent it, the Americans manufacture it and the Japanese copy it and sell it for sixpence"
in 73687 20080731 131814 Renata <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:36:16 -0400, "J. Clarke"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>evodawg wrote:
>>> evodawg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper
>>>>> stickers
>>>>> saying "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any
>>>>> more than you do
>>>>> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took
>>>>> them
>>>>> -- and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed
>>>>> to *build* what America *buys*.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension
>>>> deals with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US
>>>> Auto Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go
>>>> into
>>>> a hardware store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world
>>>> coming to???????
>>>>
>>> Or anything else for that matter.
>>
>>I don't know what is is with you people that you can't find decent
>>products. Maybe if you worried more about function and less about
>>place of manufacture you'd be happier.
>>
>>--
>The reason for worry about the place of manufacture is probably due to
>our experience with crap from said place of manufacture.
>
>Personally, I was never one to blindly buy American, only America, no
>matter what. Whoever made the best for the money got my business.
>That meant no American cars, but some pretty good American tools (just
>2 examples). Today, you can't find much not made in China, and I've
>become one who looks for the "Made In USA" (or Europe) sticker 'cause
>most of the junk from China is just that.
My IBM T41 ThinkPad was made in China - it's beautifully engineered.
(Actually made by Lenovo but at that time was still allowed to put IBM badge on it.)
"scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> willshak wrote:
>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
>> since 1992.
>>
>
> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping "socialism".
> From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers,
> AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers find
> it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
> "free-market" United States.
They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
Taxpayers.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:00:18 GMT, "LD" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>"scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> willshak wrote:
>>>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
>>>> since 1992.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
>>> "socialism".
>>> From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers,
>>> AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers find
>>> it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
>>> "free-market" United States.
>>
>>They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>>Taxpayers.
>
>
> To a lesser extent than the Americans at this point in time.
With Billions being pissed away. you got that right.
samson wrote:
> I'm never using it again.
>
> S.
I hung a mirror for customer the other day. Used 2 heavy duty lags, well the
head of one lag sheered off and the mirror came crashing to the tile floor.
Damage, the mirror broke into pieces, the frame also broke, the tile under
the mirror cracked. The screw cost how much? Later I find out its not even
made of steel, its made from Zinc and made in China. I charged $50.00 to
hang the mirror. It will cost much more than that to replace the tile and
the mirror, not to mention fixing the scratch on the wall. All because of a
lousy screw. Thanks China, for turning a life long customer into a lost
irate one. Wondering where you go for customer support for something like
this? Freakin Chinese CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Motorola sold off everything they were good at to concentrate on the
> highly competetive cellular phone market - one of their weakest
> product lines.
Just like GEC/Marconi in the UK.
All that's left now is a little outfit called Telent and the other
remaining bits are part of Ericsson.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:17:33 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "dpb" wrote:
>>
>>> The application in consumer products was a different story as the
>>> economics weren't the same.
>>
>> I don't know whether you wish to consider the automotive alternator a
>> consumer product or not, but like the automotive radio, we can thank
>> Motorola for its existance..
>>
>> For the alternator to be practical, a 3 phase rectifier bridge was
>> required.
>>
>> Prior to the solid state rectifier, germanium was used, which was a
>> problem.
>>
>> There simply is enough germanium to satisfy automotive production for
>> a year, thus pricing restricted it's use to police and emergency
>> vehicles.
>>
>> When the solid state 25A, push in diode became available, it sold for
>> $100 + $1/PIV and you needed 100PIV.
>>
>> Thus a solid state diode was $200 ea or $1,200/bridge.
>>
>> Needless to say, those early diodes were guarded with great care by
>> engineering.
>>
>> With that as the background, in walks Motorola to the big 3 with a
>> proposition:
>>
>> You guarantee Motorola 10,000,000 units/year, we will build a plant
>> and sell diodes to you for $0.25 EACH.
>>
>> Thus the automotive alternator became a reality.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>Motorola sold their semiconductor division several years ago. It's
>called Freescale Semiconductor.
Motorola sold off everything they were good at to concentrate on the
highly competetive cellular phone market - one of their weakest
product lines.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Of course if this is a raw material purchase at Lowes or H/D, you
> already accet the fact you are buying garbage.
There are a couple exceptions to this. I know of at least one person
who buys S2S secondary wood there because he can pick through the whole
stack and only take *perfect* boards.
Chris
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I
>>>>>>>>>>> did with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that
>>>>>>>>>>> they were going to open a US plant and start building cars
>>>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking
>>>>>>>>>>> their plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are
>>>>>>>>>>> largely moving to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the
>>>>>>>>>>> rules are written, because they're US based corporations
>>>>>>>>>>> this is still considered "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>>>>>>> "American Made"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DAGS Lots were American Made.
>>>>>
>>>>> FYGS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IOW, you don't want to know ...
>>>
>>> I'm just sick of people who have no sources instructing other to
>>> "DAGS". If
>>> you can't be assed to do the search yourself and post the relevant
>>> links then up yours and the horse you rode in on.
>>>
>>
>>
>> And your sources for the Original Assertion are
>
> Personal experience. There is more to the world than Google you know.
>
>
And your Personal Experience differs markedly from My Personal Experience.
Note also that the first Japanese transistor radio was not made in Japan. It
was made in Indianapolis.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LD" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>
>>> I don't blame that
>>> Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
>>> innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry was
>>> stagnating.
>
> Uhmmm.... you got it wrong. We did the innovation in electronics and
> new products. Japan innovated in production and marketing.
>
> nb
You never had a US Made Zenith or Motorola transistor radio?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>LD wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>>>>> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
>>>>> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
>>>>> his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were
>>>>> going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because
>>>>> they're US based corporations this is still considered "domestic"
>>>>> production.
>>>>>
>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>>>>
>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US
>>>> consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping
>>>> on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
>>>
>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>
>>Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios? The
>>first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios was Sony
>>and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American branded
>>transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>
>
> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
> "American Made"
DAGS Lots were American Made.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LD" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> You never had a US Made Zenith or Motorola transistor radio?
>
> In fact, we did. When I was a boy back in '56-57, mom bought a Zenith
> transistor radio. The thing was the size of a breadbox, weighed about
> 5-6lbs, and had a battery the size 2lb brick of cheese.
You are either talking about the Trans-Oceanic, or were living on another
planet. DAGS
Bored Borg wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:35:38 +0100, J. Clarke wrote
> (in article <[email protected]>):
>
>> What do Univac computers have to do with consumer electronics?
>
> I predict that in the near future every home will have one, and housewives
> wearing silver-foil jump-suits will use them for the household accounts or
> while away their leisure time playing chess with them or storing recipes in
> the memory tanks which can easiy be refilled and upgraded by having mercury
> delivered to the door just as today we have milk...
> They will even be able to play a selection of melodies on the household piano
> by means of an attachment which fits over the keys and faithfully replays
> compositions stored in the memory tanks. Now every home will be able to have
> music!
>
> The control bank will fit neatly in beside the wireless telegraphy televisual
> receiving apparatus and the radium-ray steak cooker so housewives can easily
> pause for the hour when it is time for the picture information broadcast
> which will, it is envisaged, come into their homes every single day to
> deliver government news and messages from friends and family - except Sunday,
> of course, when the flow of electricity will be stopped as a mark of respect.
>
> What excitement tomorrow promises, thanks to the miracle of the electron and
> the vision of us here at the Omnivac Corporation of America!
>
Sweet. Maybe I was wrong in assuming that computers were a passing fad
and would disappear in a few years...
mahalo,
jo4hn
In article <[email protected]>, "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper stickers saying
"Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any more than you do
now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took them -- and
the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed to *build* what
America *buys*.
"evodawg" wrote:
> Lot of times it's just the aggravation of having to load up the crap
> and
> drive the distance and lug it into the store and wait in line and
> get the
> fifth degree from the moron behind the register.
That's why inspection before purchase is prudent.
Of course if this is a raw material purchase at Lowes or H/D, you
already accet the fact you are buying garbage.
Lew
Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 31, 3:32 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Frank Boettcher wrote:
>>
>>> I had a union. They were highly productive, cooperative,
>>> collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
>>> in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. Horrible corporate
>>> management strategy was the root cause for that.
>> My Toyota Tacoma is UAW built in Fremont, CA, in a former GM plant.
>>
>> Same worker pool, same location, properly managed, building a
>> well-designed product.
>
> "Build it right, or we close the plant."
>
> How is that for an incentive package? (It's about frickin' time!)
Toyota has been building 'em right in that plant since 1991.
The same plant builds the Pontiac Vibe.
"evodawg" wrote:
> It just pisses
> me off that we take this shit. I called McFeelys and all their
> hardware and
> screws are made in China and Taiwan. Guess Jamestown maybe the last
> place
> to buy USA. I kinda wonder if Jamestown is getting stuff from China?
> Oh
> well I tried to find USA made.
There is no fastener industry left in the USA, it is all off shore.
As far as Jamestown is concerned, a major portion of their business is
stainless where India is a major supplier.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> samson wrote:
>
> > I'm never using it again.
> >
> > S.
>
> So, what was it that convince you? The quality or the intoxicating aroma?
>
>
So many things.
S.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "samson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm never using it again.
> >
> > S.
> Let me see if your reason is the same as mine
> Went to lumber yard and purchased a 3/4 sheet of furniture grade birch
> plywood to cut into pieces about 14 inches by 18 inches for a project. The
> plywood was only about 3/4 usable due to voids in the material, lost another
> few pieces due to lamanite seperation. Finaly got 8 "good" blocks out of
> the sheet. Out of the 8 two warped out of shape, so now out of the 12 I
> needed I have 6 usable blocks and those are from good to fair. While
> cutting I had a stink in the shop worse then a skunk just not as powerful
> and went away quickly, while routing the blocks I hit metal and ruined a new
> 30 dollar router bit. I now have $30 invested in wood and $30 in a router
> bit and only half of material for my project. Went back to lumber yard
> purchased a 3/4 inch sheet of furniture grade birch plywood made in Canada,
> cost $50, got all 12 blocks out of it, no stink while cutting, no metal to
> ruin router bit, no voids, no warping
> Is this sad tale something like what you are going through? Sad part is
> that the lumber yard only carries the china made ply now except by special
> order.
For me, all that except the metal. The separation is bad in parts.
Also, some of the birch laminate is superthin, so sanding just a
bit took the birch right off. I'm paying the extra 20 bucks or so
to get something else next time.
S.
to the
J. Clarke wrote:
>
> I don't know what is is with you people that you can't find decent
> products. Maybe if you worried more about function and less about
> place of manufacture you'd be happier.
>
What? If it don't function then its probably from China! Faulty or defective
products coming from China can and is effecting my business. It just pisses
me off that we take this shit. I called McFeelys and all their hardware and
screws are made in China and Taiwan. Guess Jamestown maybe the last place
to buy USA. I kinda wonder if Jamestown is getting stuff from China? Oh
well I tried to find USA made.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Ed, you live in Connecticut. Connecticut has lost many manufacturing
> jobs, not because of competition from overseas, but because
> manufacturing in Connecticut is almost exclusively for the
> military
We have lots of smaller specialty manufacters, like Hamer guitars
(woodworking content), Kaman music (Ovation), Peter Paul (as in Mounds),
Cannondale, Horton Brasses (woodworking content), etc...
You're right that we don't do so well with large scale, non-military stuff.
scritch wrote:
> willshak wrote:
>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario,
>> Canada since 1992.
>>
>
> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
> "socialism". From what I understand Canada has much stronger
> protections for workers, AND national health care, yet our great
> American auto manufacturers find it cheaper to build cars and parts in
> Canada than here in the good ol' "free-market" United States.
It costs GM $1,200 per vehicle less to build cars in Canada than in the U.S.
because they don't have the cost of an employee health plan. However
everything has to be paid for, and the monthly health insurance fee
Canadians pay only covers a tiny fraction of their govt.-run provincial
health insurance expenditures. So guess who gets to pick up the difference?
That's right, the taxpayer. Unfortunately there's never enough tax money
fill the gap, so the quality of health care in Canada has been declining for
some time. In 2005 a lawsuit by a guy who had been waiting over a year for
hip-replacement surgery went all the way to their supreme court which ruled
that prohibiting people from going outside the govt. system was
unconstitutional given that life-threatening delays in diagnosis and
treatment had become widespread.
> Maybe, just maybe, to achieve living conditions that benefit more
> people rather than a few at the top, it's worthwhile to consider ways
> of running a society that virtually every other industrialized
> country has adopted.
Sure, the U.S. health insurance companies manage to absorb a quarter of all
the money they take in for administrative overhead, double what the govt.
insurance plans in Canada consume internally. Ten percent of what Americans
with insurance pay is "shifted" by the health care industry to cover their
costs when they have to treat uninsured patients, aside from billions more
in tax dollars. And one in six Americans has no health insurance. The U.S.
system (or lack of a system) is a shambles, but just copying the Canadian
system is probably not the solution.
<<We have lots of smaller specialty manufacters, like Hamer guitars
(woodworking content), Kaman music (Ovation), Peter Paul (as in Mounds),
Cannondale, Horton Brasses (woodworking content), etc...>>
Isn't Peter Paul shutting down their CT operation? But Stanley (woodworking
content) still manufactures some stuff in New Britski, don't they?
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
"LD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> willshak wrote:
>>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
>>> since 1992.
>>>
>>
>> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping "socialism".
>> From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers,
>> AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers find
>> it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
>> "free-market" United States.
>
> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
> Taxpayers.
You mean the Canadians have figured out a way to pay themselves?
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving
>>>>>>>> to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>>>>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor
>>>>> radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an
>>>>> American branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>>>>
>>>> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
>>>
>>> I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
>>> transistor radios.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, it didn't.
>
> Are you calling me a liar, shithead?
No, I'm calling you an Imbecile.
In article <[email protected]>, Alan Petrillo <[email protected]> wrote:
>So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
>you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
And where the parts were made. My son's Firebird was built in the U.S., but an
awful lot of the individual parts are stamped "Made in Canada".
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:18:55 +0100, Stuart <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>>> Taxpayers.
>>
>>Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
> And we're taxed heavier than the Yanks too.
Your Problem.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I
>>>>>>>>>> did with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking
>>>>>>>>>> their plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely
>>>>>>>>>> moving to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are
>>>>>>>>>> written, because they're US based corporations this is still
>>>>>>>>>> considered "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
>>>>>
>>>>> I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
>>>>> transistor radios.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it didn't.
>>>
>>> Are you calling me a liar, shithead?
>>
>>
>> No, I'm calling you an Imbecile.
>
> I see. So the limits of your rhetorical abilities are "DAGS" and name
> calling.
You Reap what you Sow, "shithead"!
>
> You _are_ the weakest link. G'bye. <plonk>
And you are also a Coward!
>
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>>
>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>>>> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
>>>> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
>>>> his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>
>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were
>>>> going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because
>>>> they're US based corporations this is still considered "domestic"
>>>> production.
>>>>
>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>>>
>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US
>>> consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping
>>> on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
>>
>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>
> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios? The
> first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios was Sony
> and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American branded
> transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
in 73730 20080731 203956 Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 31, 3:32=A0pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Frank Boettcher wrote:
>>
>> > I had a union. =A0They were highly productive, cooperative,
>> > collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
>> > in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. =A0Horrible corporat=
>e
>> > management strategy was the root cause for that.
>>
>> My Toyota Tacoma is UAW built in Fremont, CA, in a former GM plant.
>>
>> Same worker pool, same location, properly managed, building a
>> well-designed product.
>
>"Build it right, or we close the plant."
>
>How is that for an incentive package? (It's about frickin' time!)
Pretty much the same with Nissan in northern England.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body.
>>>>>>> He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made
>>>>>>> in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told
>>>>>>> him to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>>>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the
>>>>>> US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not
>>>>>> jumping on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>
>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>
>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>>>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor
>>>> radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an
>>>> American branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>>> "American Made"
>>
>> DAGS Lots were American Made.
>
> FYGS.
IOW, you don't want to know ...
"spaco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ya know folks, if it's sold in the USA, then it's the guy who is selling
> it to you without telling you about its problems who is at fault. Up line
> from him is the American importer who also knows what he's pushing off on
> us.
> It won't get any better until we place the pressure where it can do some
> good.
> WE ALL have to return EVERY bad product and DEMAND satisfaction.
> The enemy is US! Don't be complacent!!!
>
> I bought a couple dozen sheets of that kind of plywood from Menard's (up
> here in western Wisconsin) and about half of it delaminated. I used it
> up as best I could. I went back to the store a week or two later to buy
> something else and simply complained to a manager about it. I told him
> I'd never buy plywood there again. He said I should bring the receipt in
> and they'd do something for me. I did, and we negotiated a 50% return of
> the cost of the stuff. If enough people did that, they'd loose enough
> money that they'd HAVE to push for better stuff.
>
> Pete Stanaitis
> ------------------------
>
> samson wrote:
>> I'm never using it again.
>>
>> S.
Big problem is that joe average doesn't know he is getting ripped off, or is
afraid to take stuff back and just accepts the crap he getting. A few years
ago I went to a craft show. Another vendor was selling a toy just like one
I make at 1/3 the price of mine. One customer complained to me about my
price and showed me the one she had just pruchased from the other vendor.
It was already broken, mine has a 30 day warrenty on it, I showed her the
difference in quality. She bought mine but didn't take the broken one back
afraid to offend the other vendor. The key here is education and guts to
refuse to accept inferior products. Untill that happens we will have a
problem of getting more and more of lesser and lesser quality goods
dpb wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
> ....
>
>> FWIW, Cessna is building it's newest aircraft in China.
>
> Only partially
Nope.
<http://www.aviation.com/flying/071128-ap-cessna-skycatcher-china.html>
It's "Made in China".
I've been following the uproar since it started.
The expansion in Wichita is mostly Citation trainin facility, no? I
know they're building the Mustang in Indepependence.
dpb wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
> ....
>> You're right that we don't do so well with large scale, non-military
>> stuff.
>
> Deere, Caterpillar, etc., are doing just fine, thank you.
>
> As are Boeing (commercial as well as military), Cessna,
> Hawker/Beechcraft, ...
>
> Selective "name that tune" here plays a part, too...
>
> --
I meant in Connecticut. Sorry. Pretty much all of our large-scale
non-military manufacturing is long gone. Most of the big stuff that's
left is United Technologies family and still tied back to military
stuff, like Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky, etc...
Zip file compression and ESPN are Connecticut grown, though!
FWIW, Cessna is building it's newest aircraft in China.
On Jun 16, 1:00=A0am, "LD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > willshak wrote:
> >> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
> >> since 1992.
>
> > Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping "socialism=
".
> > From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers=
,
> > AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers fin=
d
> > it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
> > "free-market" United States.
>
> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
> Taxpayers.
Bullshit.
Frank Boettcher wrote:
> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>
> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>
> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
> do that?
>
> Frank
I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a
few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs,
benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If
indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their
table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
We had a Trans-Oceanic - used it 8000 miles or so southwest from here :-)
It allowed us to hear VOA and get skip out of the US from time to time.
The only station within 2000 miles was AFRS controlled.
The stainless with black made it a nice radio.
Martin
[email protected] wrote:
> "LD" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> You are either talking about the Trans-Oceanic, or were living on
>> another planet. DAGS
>
> I'd dispute that statement ....if I had a clue what yer talking about.
>
> nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Ed, you live in Connecticut. Connecticut has lost many manufacturing
> jobs, not because of competition from overseas, but because
> manufacturing in Connecticut is almost exclusively for the
> military--who are the major employers in manufacturing in Connecticut?
> Electric Boat, Pratt & Whitney, Sikorski, Colt, etc. Why did the jobs
> go away? Not because the Chinese started making nuclear submarines
> and jet engines and helicopters and M16s but because the Congress
> decided that we have enough submarines and jet airplanes and
> helicopters and M16s. Why aren't there any _consumer_ manufacturing
> jobs? Because the idiots in the statehouse have taxed them out of
> existence--no company hoping to compete in any consumer products area
> is going to set up in Connecticut because some outfit in a state that
> is friendly to business instead of sucking off the DOD teat will eat
> their lunch.
>
> If you want manufacturing jobs in Connecticut then talk to your idiot
> legislators about cutting taxes on manufacturing way, way back, and
> provide some incentives for manufacturing to come to Connecticut.
In addition to all the valid reasons above, add the cost of utilities. We
have the highest electric rates, fuel oil cost, and natural gas. All are
needed for manufacturing. Where I work we are still under contract at 15.1¢
for electric, but other parts of the country it is about a third of that.
In article <[email protected]>, samson <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> samson wrote:
>>
>> > I'm never using it again.
>> >
>> So, what was it that convince you? The quality or the intoxicating aroma?
>
>So many things.
Could you be less specific?
Robatoy wrote:
> Oh... and fuck Walmart. THEY are the sunsabitches who are largely
> responsible for twisting the consumers' minds into believing that
> everything is cheap and all is well. The average consumers have
> painted themselves into a corner. Have fun with that, folks. See you
> all in in the bread-lines.
>
If you haven't seen WALL-E yet, I highly recommend it.
"Buy n' Large", indeed!
Jerry
It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Frank Boettcher
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On packaged stuff from China, as a matter of routine, I buy it and
>>open and inspect right there in the store. Saves gas getting to the
>>returns desk. learned that the hard way.
>
> Saves even more time if you set it aside the moment you see the magic
> words
> "Made in China" and get something better instead.
>
> Eventually, I'm sure they'll start making better-quality products -- I'm
> old
> enough to remember when the words "Made in Japan" meant "crap", and we all
> now
> what those words mean *now* -- but it may not happen until after they've
> transitioned to a capitalist economy.
>
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>>next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper stickers saying
> "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any more than you
> do
> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took them --
> and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed to *build*
> what America *buys*.
Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension deals
with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US Auto
Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go into a hardware
store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world coming to???????
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
evodawg wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
>>>next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper stickers
>> saying "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any more
>> than you do
>> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took them --
>> and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed to
>> *build* what America *buys*.
>
> Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension deals
> with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US Auto
> Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go into a hardware
> store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world coming to???????
>
Or anything else for that matter.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
evodawg wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper
>>> stickers
>>> saying "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any
>>> more than you do
>>> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took
>>> them
>>> -- and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed
>>> to *build* what America *buys*.
>>
>> Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension
>> deals with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US
>> Auto Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go
>> into
>> a hardware store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world
>> coming to???????
>>
> Or anything else for that matter.
I don't know what is is with you people that you can't find decent
products. Maybe if you worried more about function and less about
place of manufacture you'd be happier.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>
>
> Next for automotive? Have you looked around in a parking lot in the
> past 10 years?
>
> Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a
> lonely Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. Back
> lot is better, about 60 -40 in favor of US.
Whine whine whine whine whine.
Ed, you live in Connecticut. Connecticut has lost many manufacturing
jobs, not because of competition from overseas, but because
manufacturing in Connecticut is almost exclusively for the
military--who are the major employers in manufacturing in Connecticut?
Electric Boat, Pratt & Whitney, Sikorski, Colt, etc. Why did the jobs
go away? Not because the Chinese started making nuclear submarines
and jet engines and helicopters and M16s but because the Congress
decided that we have enough submarines and jet airplanes and
helicopters and M16s. Why aren't there any _consumer_ manufacturing
jobs? Because the idiots in the statehouse have taxed them out of
existence--no company hoping to compete in any consumer products area
is going to set up in Connecticut because some outfit in a state that
is friendly to business instead of sucking off the DOD teat will eat
their lunch.
If you want manufacturing jobs in Connecticut then talk to your idiot
legislators about cutting taxes on manufacturing way, way back, and
provide some incentives for manufacturing to come to Connecticut. Not
gonna happen--Connecticut is a suburb of New York City that doesn't
see manufacturing as being of any real importance compared to stock
trading and lawyering and insurance and whatnot.
If Japan and China fell off the face of the Earth there still wouldn't
be any manufacturing jobs in Connecticut. If you want to work in
manufacturing you picked the wrong state to live in.
The US exports more than 1.4 trillion dollars worth of goods every
year. If there is no manufacturing in the US where do they come from?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
dayvo wrote:
...
> about how much $$$ they can make for the board, CEO and other
> directors. Unfortunately that is exactly what our economy is designed
> for and it's what the US prides itself on. And not one of us can
> individually change it. I can't hurt Delta's business badly enough
> for them to design and build a planer in the US. ...
That is, of course, the purpose of _any_ company that isn't a government
or other monopolistic entity that doesn't require a profit to remain in
business. And, of course, you left off a major portion of where those
profits go, even for importers--employees of the distribution and retail
chain, etc., and the stockholders which include a major fraction of the
US population either directly or indirectly thru retirement plans.
> What we really need is a US tool company that makes good quality tools
> in the US.
The problem is, the US buying public has amply demonstrated they're more
interested in price than any other single factor. The fraction that
isn't is too small to be more than a niche market at best.
--
dpb wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
> ...
>
>> FWIW, Cessna is building it's newest aircraft in China.
>
> Only partially and that's as much strategic as otherwise to gain market
> access. Plus, they're in the process of a $$multi-million expansion of
> facilities in Wichita.
And Independence (KS) and Columbus (GA).
Also, both the Wichita Airbus facility is expanding (independent of the
tanker contract foo-fa; they do Axxx design work in Wichita) as well as
Spirit (former Boeing commercial facility, now they do the former Boeing
work plus additional for various others including new work for Airbus as
well as 787 composites)...
Now is, somewhat amazingly, still pretty-much boom times in commercial
aviation in both large airframes as well as small business and private
markets despite fuel costs.
--
--
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "dpb" wrote:
>
>> Deere, Caterpillar, etc., are doing just fine, thank you.
>>
>> As are Boeing (commercial as well as military), Cessna,
>> Hawker/Beechcraft, ...
>
> Illinois, Iowa, and Kansas come to mind, but Connecticut?
Didn't see the CT connection :) granted; thought it was meant as US.
Many of the problems in local areas has to do w/ onerous State and Local
laws and taxation policies combined w/ changing product demands and
competition pressures that haven't been responded to in effective manner
for one reason or another (or more generally, combination of all of the
above and more)...
--
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> willshak wrote:
>>>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
>>>> since 1992.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
>>> "socialism". From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections
>>> for workers, AND national health care, yet our great American auto
>>> manufacturers find it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than
>>> here in the good ol' "free-market" United States.
>>
>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>> Taxpayers.
>
>
> You mean the Canadians have figured out a way to pay themselves?
>
Who pays for their health care? Same applies to Japan.
"evodawg" wrote:
<SNIP a tale of fastener woe>
> lousy screw. Thanks China, for turning a life long customer into a
> lost
> irate one. Wondering where you go for customer support for
> something like
> this? Freakin Chinese CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SFWIW, I standardized on 316L fasteners a long time ago.
WHY:
It's the standard for marine applications which is my primary area..
China is NOT a supplier of 316L, YET.
Fasteners, for the most part, represent a small percentage of the
total project cost, so purchase price is not an issue.
Jamestown Distributors has an extensive S/S inventory so availability
is not usually an issue.
They don't rust.
They look purty<grin>
Lew
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:45:39 GMT, evodawg <[email protected]> wrote:
>samson wrote:
>
>> I'm never using it again.
>>
>> S.
>I hung a mirror for customer the other day. Used 2 heavy duty lags, well the
>head of one lag sheered off and the mirror came crashing to the tile floor.
>Damage, the mirror broke into pieces, the frame also broke, the tile under
>the mirror cracked. The screw cost how much? Later I find out its not even
>made of steel, its made from Zinc and made in China. I charged $50.00 to
>hang the mirror. It will cost much more than that to replace the tile and
>the mirror, not to mention fixing the scratch on the wall. All because of a
>lousy screw. Thanks China, for turning a life long customer into a lost
>irate one. Wondering where you go for customer support for something like
>this? Freakin Chinese CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On packaged stuff from China, as a matter of routine, I buy it and
open and inspect right there in the store. Saves gas getting to the
returns desk. learned that the hard way.
Frank
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:24:26 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Doug Winterburn" wrote:
>
>> Motorola sold their semiconductor division several years ago. It's
>> called Freescale Semiconductor.
>
>This was the 1955-1960 time period.
>
>As usual, you can depend on Motorola to fuck up a wet dream.
>
>Lew
>
And all the Freescale stuff is made in Thailand and China.
Alan Petrillo wrote:
> Ken wrote:
>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in
> America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this
> about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>
> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He
> was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
> his VIN and see for himself.
>
> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai
> and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to
> open a US plant and start building cars here.
>
> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants
> out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and
> Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US
> based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
>
> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption
> you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has been
"lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US consumer
electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping on the solid
state bandwagon when transistors first came out. I don't blame that
Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry was
stagnating.
willshak wrote:
> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
> since 1992.
>
Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
"socialism". From what I understand Canada has much stronger
protections for workers, AND national health care, yet our great
American auto manufacturers find it cheaper to build cars and parts in
Canada than here in the good ol' "free-market" United States.
Maybe, just maybe, to achieve living conditions that benefit more people
rather than a few at the top, it's worthwhile to consider ways of
running a society that virtually every other industrialized country has
adopted.
Swingman wrote:
> dicko wrote:
>
>
>> hahaha... I got a laugh out of this.
>> Its not that the US industry was caught flat footed. The US was
>> innovating... Doing everything to fight the transistor.
>
>>
>> So yep, we killed ourselves. But it's not that we weren't innovating.
>> It's just that we were innovating the wrong things.
>
> Except at the beginning:
>
> http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1956/index.html
I think the previous wasn't particularly accurate assessment of the
overall state of affairs. Philco had the Transac S-2000 series computer
out which included them new-fangled solid state devices quite early
(1958). They had hybrid models of the series even earlier (showing my
age, I used them... :) ).
<http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102646276>
The application in consumer products was a different story as the
economics weren't the same.
--
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>> Ken wrote:
>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>
>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>>> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
>>> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
>>> his VIN and see for himself.
>>>
>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were
>>> going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>
>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because
>>> they're US based corporations this is still considered "domestic"
>>> production.
>>>
>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>>
>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US
>> consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping
>> on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
>
> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios? The
first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios was Sony
and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American branded
transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>> I don't blame that
>> Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
>> innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry
>> was stagnating.
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:04:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
>
>> Philco had the Transac S-2000 series computer out which included them
>> new-fangled solid state devices quite early (1958). They had hybrid
>> models of the series even earlier (showing my age, I used them... :)
>> ).
>
> IIRC, the Univac SS-80/90 came out about the same time. Remember
> excess 5 alphanumerics?
What do Univac computers have to do with consumer electronics?
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LD wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He
>>>>> didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in
>>>>> Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him
>>>>> to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>
>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>> built.
>>>>
>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the
>>>> US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not
>>>> jumping on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came
>>>> out.
>>>
>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>
>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios
>> was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American
>> branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>
> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
transistor radios.
LD wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body.
>>>>>> He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made
>>>>>> in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told
>>>>>> him to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>> built.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the
>>>>> US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not
>>>>> jumping on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came
>>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>
>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor
>>> radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an
>>> American branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>>
>>
>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>> "American Made"
>
> DAGS Lots were American Made.
FYGS.
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LD wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving
>>>>>>> to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>
>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>
>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>>>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor
>>>> radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an
>>>> American branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>>>
>>> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
>>
>> I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
>> transistor radios.
>>
>>
>
> No, it didn't.
Are you calling me a liar, shithead?
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LD wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did
>>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving
>>>>>>>> to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>>>> "American Made"
>>>
>>> DAGS Lots were American Made.
>>
>> FYGS.
>
>
> IOW, you don't want to know ...
I'm just sick of people who have no sources instructing other to "DAGS". If
you can't be assed to do the search yourself and post the relevant links
then up yours and the horse you rode in on.
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LD wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I
>>>>>>>>> did with it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking
>>>>>>>>> their plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely
>>>>>>>>> moving to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are
>>>>>>>>> written, because they're US based corporations this is still
>>>>>>>>> considered "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
>>>>
>>>> I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
>>>> transistor radios.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it didn't.
>>
>> Are you calling me a liar, shithead?
>
>
> No, I'm calling you an Imbecile.
I see. So the limits of your rhetorical abilities are "DAGS" and name
calling.
You _are_ the weakest link. G'bye. <plonk>
LD wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LD wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LD wrote:
>>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are
>>>>>>>>>> built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a
>>>>>>>>>> report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I
>>>>>>>>>> did with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American"
>>>>>>>>>> truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard
>>>>>>>>>> Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck
>>>>>>>>>> was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green,
>>>>>>>>>> Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for
>>>>>>>>>> himself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that
>>>>>>>>>> they were going to open a US plant and start building cars
>>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking
>>>>>>>>>> their plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are
>>>>>>>>>> largely moving to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the
>>>>>>>>>> rules are written, because they're US based corporations
>>>>>>>>>> this is still considered "domestic" production.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>>>>>> built.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that
>>>>>>>>> has been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just
>>>>>>>>> fine) the US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the
>>>>>>>>> foot by not jumping on the solid state bandwagon when
>>>>>>>>> transistors first came out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor
>>>>>>> radios? The first company to sell more than half a million
>>>>>>> transistor radios was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I
>>>>>>> _never_ saw an American branded transistor radio on the shelf or
>>>>>>> in anyone's hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
>>>>>> "American Made"
>>>>>
>>>>> DAGS Lots were American Made.
>>>>
>>>> FYGS.
>>>
>>>
>>> IOW, you don't want to know ...
>>
>> I'm just sick of people who have no sources instructing other to
>> "DAGS". If
>> you can't be assed to do the search yourself and post the relevant
>> links then up yours and the horse you rode in on.
>>
>
>
> And your sources for the Original Assertion are
Personal experience. There is more to the world than Google you know.
jo4hn wrote:
> Bored Borg wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:35:38 +0100, J. Clarke wrote
>> (in article <[email protected]>):
>>
>>> What do Univac computers have to do with consumer electronics?
>>
>> I predict that in the near future every home will have one, and
>> housewives wearing silver-foil jump-suits will use them for the
>> household accounts or while away their leisure time playing chess
>> with them or storing recipes in the memory tanks which can easiy be
>> refilled and upgraded by having mercury delivered to the door just
>> as today we have milk...
>> They will even be able to play a selection of melodies on the
>> household piano by means of an attachment which fits over the keys
>> and faithfully replays compositions stored in the memory tanks. Now
>> every home will be able to have music!
>>
>> The control bank will fit neatly in beside the wireless telegraphy
>> televisual receiving apparatus and the radium-ray steak cooker so
>> housewives can easily pause for the hour when it is time for the
>> picture information broadcast which will, it is envisaged, come into
>> their homes every single day to deliver government news and messages
>> from friends and family - except Sunday, of course, when the flow of
>> electricity will be stopped as a mark of respect.
>>
>> What excitement tomorrow promises, thanks to the miracle of the
>> electron and the vision of us here at the Omnivac Corporation of
>> America!
>>
> Sweet. Maybe I was wrong in assuming that computers were a passing
> fad and would disappear in a few years...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, "Computers, bah, humbug, just a
fad, never gonna catch on."
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:49:40 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Self
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 31, 3:20 pm, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> >> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
>> >> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
>> >> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>>
>> >> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>>
>> >> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
>> >> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
>> >> do that?
>>
>> >> Frank
>>
>> >I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a
>> >few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs,
>> >benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If
>> >indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
>>
>> I'm sure that's why they're here. Bring a plant into an area where
>> the average fully benefit loaded manufacturing wage is about
>> $20/hour, finding labor is not going to be a problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their
>> >table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
>>
>> The Unisaw never left. Built in Jackson, TN, but with a higher
>> foreign content in components. The sheet metal is fabricated in
>> Jackson and the unit is assembled and painted there, components come
>> from the far east, Mexico and Brazil.
>>
>> Regarding any others, I don't know. Of the 6-700 fine, knowledgable,
>> people who worked for Delta prior to the consolidation in 2000 there
>> are approximately 10 left with the company. Mostly field sales. I
>> have no contacts left to stay up with what is happening.
>>
>> Frank
>
>Many of the management, design and sales people moved to an outfit
>called Steel City Toolworks.
Yep, when I go to IWF, I go to the Steel City booth to visit with all
my old friends.
Frank
> I very much like the tools they're
>currently offering, even though the units all seem to be
>offshore...but, then, very little isn't these days.
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:21:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>>
>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't
>>>> believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and
>>>> mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up
>>>> his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>
>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were
>>>> going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because
>>>> they're US based corporations this is still considered "domestic"
>>>> production.
>>>>
>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
>>>
>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the US
>>> consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not jumping
>>> on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came out.
>>
>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>
>Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios? The
>first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios was Sony
>and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American branded
>transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
Actually LOTS of "American Brand" - but precious few
"American Made"
>
>>> I don't blame that
>>> Japanese for that at all--they were working hard at coming up with
>>> innovative new products while the US consumer electronics industry
>>> was stagnating.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "dpb" wrote:
>
>> The application in consumer products was a different story as the
>> economics weren't the same.
>
> I don't know whether you wish to consider the automotive alternator a
> consumer product or not, but like the automotive radio, we can thank
> Motorola for its existance..
>
> For the alternator to be practical, a 3 phase rectifier bridge was
> required.
>
> Prior to the solid state rectifier, germanium was used, which was a
> problem.
>
> There simply is enough germanium to satisfy automotive production for
> a year, thus pricing restricted it's use to police and emergency
> vehicles.
>
> When the solid state 25A, push in diode became available, it sold for
> $100 + $1/PIV and you needed 100PIV.
>
> Thus a solid state diode was $200 ea or $1,200/bridge.
>
> Needless to say, those early diodes were guarded with great care by
> engineering.
>
> With that as the background, in walks Motorola to the big 3 with a
> proposition:
>
> You guarantee Motorola 10,000,000 units/year, we will build a plant
> and sell diodes to you for $0.25 EACH.
>
> Thus the automotive alternator became a reality.
>
> Lew
>
>
Motorola sold their semiconductor division several years ago. It's
called Freescale Semiconductor.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bd586073-980a-44d1-a1e1-f080dd507554@k38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 16, 1:00 am, "LD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > willshak wrote:
> >> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
> >> since 1992.
>
> > Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping
> > "socialism".
> > From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers,
> > AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers find
> > it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
> > "free-market" United States.
>
> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
> Taxpayers.
Bullshit.
======================================================
Who pays their Health Care?
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20
>> miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's?
>> Nope, going to build the Prius.
>>
>> Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's.
>>
>> Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants,
>> offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands
>> do that?
>>
>> Frank
>
>
>I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a
>few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs,
>benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If
>indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
I'm sure that's why they're here. Bring a plant into an area where
the average fully benefit loaded manufacturing wage is about
$20/hour, finding labor is not going to be a problem.
>
>Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their
>table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
>
The Unisaw never left. Built in Jackson, TN, but with a higher
foreign content in components. The sheet metal is fabricated in
Jackson and the unit is assembled and painted there, components come
from the far east, Mexico and Brazil.
Regarding any others, I don't know. Of the 6-700 fine, knowledgable,
people who worked for Delta prior to the consolidation in 2000 there
are approximately 10 left with the company. Mostly field sales. I
have no contacts left to stay up with what is happening.
Frank
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:18:55 +0100, Stuart <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>> Taxpayers.
>
>Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
Durn right.
Frank Boettcher wrote:
>
>
> I had a union. They were highly productive, cooperative,
> collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
> in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. Horrible corporate
> management strategy was the root cause for that.
My Toyota Tacoma is UAW built in Fremont, CA, in a former GM plant.
Same worker pool, same location, properly managed, building a
well-designed product.
dicko wrote:
> hahaha... I got a laugh out of this.
>
> Its not that the US industry was caught flat footed. The US was
> innovating... Doing everything to fight the transistor.
>
> So yep, we killed ourselves. But it's not that we weren't innovating.
> It's just that we were innovating the wrong things.
Except at the beginning:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1956/index.html
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LD wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LD wrote:
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built
>>>>>> in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on
>>>>>> this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck.
>>>>>> He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He
>>>>>> didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in
>>>>>> Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him
>>>>>> to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with
>>>>>> Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they
>>>>>> were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their
>>>>>> plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to
>>>>>> Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written,
>>>>>> because they're US based corporations this is still considered
>>>>>> "domestic" production.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an
>>>>>> assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually
>>>>>> built.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as far as consumer electronics (which is the industry that has
>>>>> been "lost"--the US still makes radars and whatnot just fine) the
>>>>> US consumer electronics industry shot itself in the foot by not
>>>>> jumping on the solid state bandwagon when transistors first came
>>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> It did. Millions of Transistor Radios.
>>>
>>> Which American manufacturer produced millions of transistor radios?
>>> The first company to sell more than half a million transistor radios
>>> was Sony and when I was a kid in the '60s I _never_ saw an American
>>> branded transistor radio on the shelf or in anyone's hand.
>>
>> I Owned some. Zenith and Motorola. Oh, and Bulova. DAGS
>
> I did. It told me that no American manufacturer sold "millions" of
> transistor radios.
>
>
No, it didn't.
Lee Gordon wrote:
> <<We have lots of smaller specialty manufacters, like Hamer guitars
> (woodworking content), Kaman music (Ovation), Peter Paul (as in Mounds),
> Cannondale, Horton Brasses (woodworking content), etc...>>
>
> Isn't Peter Paul shutting down their CT operation?
I googled this, and man, you're right!
Hershey moved Mounds and Almond Joy to VA. That sucks!
But Stanley (woodworking
> content) still manufactures some stuff in New Britski, don't they?
I'm not so sure. I know a guy at Stanley that makes regular trips to
Mexico City, though. I have to remember and ask.
We've still got Horton in Cromwell and the genuine Forstener bit in
Berlin. ESPN should count as a decent sized factory. <G>
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:00:18 GMT, "LD" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"scritch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> willshak wrote:
>>> All Ford Crown Victorias have been made in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
>>> since 1992.
>>>
>>
>> Just a little aside to all those who complain about creeping "socialism".
>> From what I understand Canada has much stronger protections for workers,
>> AND national health care, yet our great American auto manufacturers find
>> it cheaper to build cars and parts in Canada than here in the good ol'
>> "free-market" United States.
>
>They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>Taxpayers.
To a lesser extent than the Americans at this point in time.
"Robatoy" wrote:
>It is all about management and employees understanding each other.
>The
days of 'mean' bosses in the car industry are pretty much over. They
have proven what that union attitude gets them.... on BOTH sides of
the line.
Find a copy of James F Lincoln's book, Incentive Management, and read
it.
Yes, the Lincoln Electric, James F Lincoln.
Written in the 30's, some of the references are a little stale, but
overall, still very much on the mark.
Firmly believed that any cost improvements should be shared equally,
1/3 each to customer, company, and worker which made Lincoln an
interesting place to work.
Lew
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:01:57 -0500, samson <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm never using it again.
>
>S.
Agreed.
Two places in the area, both carrying it, but one being a hardwood
place isn't willing to order anything. Other place (Allied in VA)
carries Chinese and other. Used to be, their cherry was Canadian.
Which was good since it was cut to metric sizes which was a tad bigger
than imperial, giving some leeway for a sawcut or two. Now, you gotta
specifically request non-Chinese, which fortunately they do have or
can get, but it (cherry) was from NCarolina last time I ordered some
(fine, except for being non-metric).
Aside, but vaguely related. Went to lunch with some buddies from
work. One had just been to Taiwan. He and a couple others were
Chinese (but US citizens, etc., etc.). In Taiwan, he said a lot of
the people are carrying chopsticks with them that they pull out of
their purse at the restaurant. Why? 'Cause the chopsticks in the
restaurant are from China and may have some nasty chemicals used to
"sterilize" them.
Renata
Stuart wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> LD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They find it cheaper, because the workers are Subsidized by Canadian
>> Taxpayers.
>
> Yeh but get this - the workers /are/ the taxpayers!
Yep. Like the chap who had the equivalent of a perpetual motion business:
Cat/mice farming.
He'd feed the mice to the cats and the cat carcasses to the mice. In
between, he'd harvest the cat fur.
Admittedly, in this metaphor, I'm not sure who the worker or tax-payer is.
"dpb" wrote:
> The application in consumer products was a different story as the
> economics weren't the same.
I don't know whether you wish to consider the automotive alternator a
consumer product or not, but like the automotive radio, we can thank
Motorola for its existance..
For the alternator to be practical, a 3 phase rectifier bridge was
required.
Prior to the solid state rectifier, germanium was used, which was a
problem.
There simply is enough germanium to satisfy automotive production for
a year, thus pricing restricted it's use to police and emergency
vehicles.
When the solid state 25A, push in diode became available, it sold for
$100 + $1/PIV and you needed 100PIV.
Thus a solid state diode was $200 ea or $1,200/bridge.
Needless to say, those early diodes were guarded with great care by
engineering.
With that as the background, in walks Motorola to the big 3 with a
proposition:
You guarantee Motorola 10,000,000 units/year, we will build a plant
and sell diodes to you for $0.25 EACH.
Thus the automotive alternator became a reality.
Lew
I'd push an AMERICAN vehicle, before I'd buy Foreign CRAP, that goes for
anything. I have a lot of old tools because of this Motto. Support your
economy , and it will support you,
Pet Peeve, Honda with bumper sticker SUPPORT your Troops,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> evodawg wrote:
>> evodawg wrote:
>>
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "Ken"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
>>>>> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the
>>>>> electronics, next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP
>>>>> AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Back in the 1970s, I used to see a lot of cars with bumper
>>>> stickers
>>>> saying "Buy What America Builds." They didn't understand then, any
>>>> more than you do
>>>> now. The U.S. auto makers went into the toilet because it took
>>>> them
>>>> -- and the UAW -- twenty years to get the message that they needed
>>>> to *build* what America *buys*.
>>>
>>> Yes, and between then and now they've made these ridiculous pension
>>> deals with the UAW. That's already dealing a death blow to the US
>>> Auto Manufactures. I just don't like the fact you can't even go
>>> into
>>> a hardware store and buy a decent SCREW!!! What is this world
>>> coming to???????
>>>
>> Or anything else for that matter.
>
> I don't know what is is with you people that you can't find decent
> products. Maybe if you worried more about function and less about
> place of manufacture you'd be happier.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Don't disagree but I would suggest that consistently bad management is
> the root cause for creating and environment that allows the union to
> get to that point. If the tail is wagging the dog it's cause the dog
> stuck his head in the sand.
I completely agree. The fish rots from the top down. Just look at the
state of the economy. (Oooops, I'm Canadian and not allowed to observe a
clusterfuck like the US economy, so I will ignore that this time. I
mean... WHERE-O-WHERE is that really cool Delta plant in Guelph, Ontario
now?)
>
> I had a union. They were highly productive, cooperative,
> collaborative, understanding of the realities of global economics and
> in no way responsible for the demise of our plant. Horrible corporate
> management strategy was the root cause for that.
Yup, seen that elsewhere as well. It is not exclusively 'the union's'
fault. There are always examples which preclude generalisations like
that. But zoom back and take a look at the big picture. Unions have not
encouraged investment much, have they? As soon as the company starts to
make money, it was GIMME GIMME. R & D spending has suffered lots too.
I have seen this first hand. As a small business owner, you want to
grow, create work for people who want it, make a few bucks. My guys see
that CNC as a threat instead of what it is, a way to be competitive and
be more secure in this environment. It helps secure their jobs, not
threaten it. (Besides, it doesn't show up hung-over, goodie for me,
right? I should get something for putting my nuts on the chopping block,
wot?)
In article <[email protected]>, Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>On packaged stuff from China, as a matter of routine, I buy it and
>open and inspect right there in the store. Saves gas getting to the
>returns desk. learned that the hard way.
Saves even more time if you set it aside the moment you see the magic words
"Made in China" and get something better instead.
Eventually, I'm sure they'll start making better-quality products -- I'm old
enough to remember when the words "Made in Japan" meant "crap", and we all now
what those words mean *now* -- but it may not happen until after they've
transitioned to a capitalist economy.
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It means a lot of lost jobs, because of all the Jap cars
> when will we wake up, buy AMERICAN. We've already lost the electronics,
> next will be the Automotive, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
>
Next for automotive? Have you looked around in a parking lot in the past 10
years?
Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a lonely
Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. Back lot is better,
about 60 -40 in favor of US.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:04:59 -0500, dpb wrote:
> Philco had the Transac S-2000 series computer out which included them
> new-fangled solid state devices quite early (1958). They had hybrid
> models of the series even earlier (showing my age, I used them... :) ).
IIRC, the Univac SS-80/90 came out about the same time. Remember excess
5 alphanumerics?
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw