I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present a shor=
t box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose of routing a=
stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never drop a workpiece o=
nto a hot cutter on the router table. This is something I have done often =
with longer box and drawer sides.
As one who is fond of all of my fingers, I am going to take his advice. I =
see two options:
-- Create a jig/fixture to hold the work and guide my plunge router through=
the cut.
-- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work, which =
it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the cutter is at the=
proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the secon=
d option.
Larry
>
> So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the second option.
>
>
>
> Larry
OK, Pat is the god of routers. However, if I understand your requirement, I would use the table and just build a quick parallel fence setup and drop the box in (inverse plunge) onto the spinning bit and slide it to a preset stop.
Alternatively you could drill a starting hole, set the box over that hole then spin up the router, still using a parallel fence setup.
One trick is to set the box between the fences with one sheet of copy paper between the box and one fence to set the width and lock it down. Then remove the paper and you have just enough clearance to slide without slop.
I might shut off the router and let it spin down at the end to avoid any possible unintentional hog out while lifting it back out.
On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:14:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Regardless of which switch you use to turn off the router none offer
>much safety if they don't stop the cutter dead in it tracks. A coasting
>down bit or blade can do as much damage as one that is under power.
Thus states the voice of experience.
On Thu, 5 Sep 2013 20:38:00 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact as I said - it could be
>argued that momentary can create its own unsafe environment.
I agree. A fast spinning, smooth cutting router bit would turn into a
wood grabbing toothed monster if it suddenly slowed RPM.
"Gramps' shop" wrote:
> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present
> a short box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose
> of routing a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never
> drop a workpiece onto a hot cutter on the router table.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
So what did Pat suggest?
Lew
"Gramps' shop" wrote:
> Here's Pat's reply:
>
[email protected] wrote:
> You won't like this, if dropping the work on a hot router-table
> cutter
> was
> acceptable.
> With a work piece that small it has to be fixtured.
>
> In this fixture, the work has to be clamped and isolated; it cannot
> move.
> Once in place, the work can be routed via an edge guide or templet &
> collar.
> Not terribly straight forward, but I'd use my morticer in a second.
> Maybe have a look at it; it might inspire some thought.
>
> Agree, this not a router table process.
> http://www.patwarner.com/mortiser.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
There are several plans available for download the follow the concept,
but are not as flexible nor have the cost.
I built one for M/T joints in 3/4" stock using a 3/8" up cut bit and
was
built from scraps.
Worked well for that job but definitely would NOT do pockets in a
piece of stock.
Pat's package is a little stiff, but the good stuff usually is.
Lew
-MIKE- wrote:
>> Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any
>> safety aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with my
>> router and like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> I would not use the momentary switch. That forces you to remain in
> what can become an awkward position, in order to keep your foot on
> the switch. I disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact
> as I said - it could be argued that momentary can create its own
> unsafe environment.
-------------------------------------------------------------
You are entitled to your misguided opinion but you would be WRONG.
A foot switch provides the same function as an "Emergency Stop"
momentary contact push button.
If you move your foot, you remove power, the router comes to a stop.
All is well IF you remain in fixed position until router comes to a
stop.
If you want to use a maintained contact foot switch as a matter of
convenience, so be it, but it is no longer providing a safety
function.
Personally, I prefer a maintained contact switch mounted on the front
of the router table, functioning the same way a table saw switch
functions.
I used a momentary contact foot switch in the boat yard to pump resin
and
another to control the resin mixer.
Any attempt to use your hands in those operations would have created
a sticky mess that would have been impossible to clean.
Lew
-MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>>> Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any
>>>> safety aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with
>>>> my
>>>> router and like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>>
>>> I would not use the momentary switch. That forces you to remain
>>> in
>>> what can become an awkward position, in order to keep your foot on
>>> the switch. I disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in
>>> fact
>>> as I said - it could be argued that momentary can create its own
>>> unsafe environment.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>You are entitled to your misguided opinion but you would be WRONG.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
> Really?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Yes as previously described below.
--------------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> A foot switch provides the same function as an "Emergency Stop"
>> momentary contact push button.
>>
>> If you move your foot, you remove power, the router comes to a
>> stop.
>>
>> All is well IF you remain in fixed position until router comes to a
>> stop.
>>
>> If you want to use a maintained contact foot switch as a matter of
>> convenience, so be it, but it is no longer providing a safety
>> function.
>
> I disagree. The switch provides the ability to turn the router on
> and off without looking under the table to hit the router switch,
> and also allows you to keep a secure hold on the workpiece from
> start to finish. That is indeed a safety function.
----------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Personally, I prefer a maintained contact switch mounted on the
>> front
>> of the router table, functioning the same way a table saw switch
>> functions.
-------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> So, that completely contradicts what you just said above. I'm not
> sure which side of this discussion you're really coming down on Lew.
---------------------------------------------------------
Not at all.
A momentary contact switch in a foot operated switch provides the
"Dead Man"
switch function required for a safety device.
In addition, it provides under voltage proction if the necessary
additional devices have been included.
A "Push on, push off" switch whether it is mounted in a foot switch or
a wall switch, provides a convenience function, but definitely a
SAFETY function.
Lew
On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:54:42 PM UTC-4, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present a sh=
ort box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose of routing=
a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never drop a workpiece=
onto a hot cutter on the router table. This is something I have done ofte=
n with longer box and drawer sides.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> As one who is fond of all of my fingers, I am going to take his advice. =
I see two options:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -- Create a jig/fixture to hold the work and guide my plunge router throu=
gh the cut.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work, whic=
h it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the cutter is at t=
he proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the sec=
ond option.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Larry
Fixture it, for the project's sake as well as your own. At very least,=20
glue it to a larger, easier to handle board.
Here's Pat's reply:
On 9/4/2013 9:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
You won't like this, if dropping the work on a hot router-table cutter
was
acceptable.
With a work piece that small it has to be fixtured.
In this fixture, the work has to be clamped and isolated; it cannot
move.
Once in place, the work can be routed via an edge guide or templet &
collar.
Not terribly straight forward, but I'd use my morticer in a second.
Maybe have a look at it; it might inspire some thought.
Agree, this not a router table process.
http://www.patwarner.com/mortiser.html
On 9/4/2013 10:54 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present a short box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose of routing a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never drop a workpiece onto a hot cutter on the router table. This is something I have done often with longer box and drawer sides.
>
> As one who is fond of all of my fingers, I am going to take his advice. I see two options:
>
> -- Create a jig/fixture to hold the work and guide my plunge router through the cut.
>
> -- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work, which it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the cutter is at the proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
>
> So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the second option.
>
> Larry
>
Several years ago I was cutting a pair of 2" long, through, and stopped
3/8" wide slots through a 1/4" thick piece of Ipe. The Ipe was 2" wide
and about 3.5" long. FWIW Ipe is about 2.5 times harder than Oak.
I successfully made this plunge through cut on a router table about 3~4
thousand times.
YOU DO NEED TO BE AWARE OF EVERY TING THAT CAN HAPPEN!!!!!
I used the fence to determine the location of the slot relative to the
edge of the wood, naturally.
I used 2 stops, one at the beginning and one at the end of travel to
establish the length of the stopped through cuts.
With a rubber soled push block to set on top and to cover the exposed
cutter as it pierced the top of the work I would place one end of the
work at the stop on the right side of the fence and the work edge
against the fence I would slowly and with both hands lower the left end
of the work down on to the spinning 4 flute end mill bit to make the
through plunge piercing. After the work was laying flat on the table I
would push the work towards the left side stop to create the slot. I
would flip the work and do the same on the other side to create the
other parallel slot.
Mind you I had complete concentration and after making a couple hundred
of these slots in a couple of hours of production routing I was worn out.
As Pat has warned It is not a very safe operation if you are not aware
of what will happen if you don't do every thing correctly.
I can give you a hint that might help.
Make you pieces double length, cut the slot on the first half of the
work, flip the piece end for end and make the other slot. After both
slots are milled, cut the pieces apart into two halves.
This will work if your pieces are not already unique.
On 9/4/2013 11:54 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present a short box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose of routing a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never drop a workpiece onto a hot cutter on the router table. This is something I have done often with longer box and drawer sides.
>
> As one who is fond of all of my fingers, I am going to take his advice. I see two options:
>
> -- Create a jig/fixture to hold the work and guide my plunge router through the cut.
>
> -- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work, which it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the cutter is at the proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
>
> So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the second option.
>
> Larry
>
I have for longer pieces just tilted and moved in. Make sure to tilt so
that the turning of the bit forces the wood to the fence, make sure the
wood is against the fence.
Or I use a plunge router setup with a fence attached to the workpiece...
Either way.
--
Jeff
Good suggestions, all, and thank you. I'm going to try my upcut idea using the router lift. I'm going to build an adjustable clamping device to hold the work along with vertical feather boards. Pix to come.
Larry
>
> > -- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work, which it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the cutter is at the proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have for longer pieces just tilted and moved in. Make sure to tilt so
>
> that the turning of the bit forces the wood to the fence, make sure the
>
> wood is against the fence.
>
>
>
> Or I use a plunge router setup with a fence attached to the workpiece...
>
> Either way.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff
On Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:56:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>I figured this out just short of the hard way! A simple foot switch with a
>push-on-push-off switch, mounted in a metal electrical box, that your router
>plugs into is just the ticket for this kind of thing.
Here's one he might consider.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30049&cat=1,240,41065
On 9/12/2013 7:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Not at all.
>>
>> A momentary contact switch in a foot operated switch provides the
>> "Dead Man"
>> switch function required for a safety device.
>>
>> In addition, it provides under voltage proction if the necessary
>> additional devices have been included.
>>
>> A "Push on, push off" switch whether it is mounted in a foot switch or
>> a wall switch, provides a convenience function, but definitely a
>> SAFETY function.
>>
>
> I guess we'll just have to disagree on how much safety is really offered by
> the momentary switch versus other problems it can introduce.
>
Regardless of which switch you use to turn off the router none offer
much safety if they don't stop the cutter dead in it tracks. A coasting
down bit or blade can do as much damage as one that is under power.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 00:35:07 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>That's just wrong, period. Have you ever used a router?
>Have you ever done exactly what you said-- stop the router while engaged
>in wood?
Yes, actually I have done it. Electrical failure while I was cutting
the ends of door rails to match the stiles. The bit *did* slow down
quickly, but it was a wood shuddering, bucking action that left two
inches of jagged, splintered end wood in my hands.
Maybe you're talking about straight bits slowing down. I was using a
stile cutting bit where a significant amount of wood profile is riding
against the bit. I was lucky that I had a good grasp on the wood or it
would have spun the wood around somewhere, maybe even at me.
Don't believe me? Go try it yourself.
On 9/4/2013 10:54 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present
> a short box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose
> of routing a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never
> drop a workpiece onto a hot cutter on the router table. ...
Well, w/o any dimensions or materials to go on...that's what they make
overhead pin routers for (amongst other things).
But, like Leon, I've done similar operations enough that I'm not that
concerned(+) _IF_ the sizes are at least "large enough" and it's setup
to do so.
(+) That is, of course I'm "concerned"; I'm not completely rejecting the
operation given a set of parameters that are reasonable. What's
"reasonable" for one may not be for another owing to experience level,
physical condition, etc., etc., etc., ...
--
On 9/5/13 9:05 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/4/2013 10:54 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
>> I pinged Pat Warner earlier today to ask about a safe way to present a
>> short box side to a hot cutter on the router table for the purpose of
>> routing a stopped dado for the box bottom. Pat's advice is never drop
>> a workpiece onto a hot cutter on the router table. This is something
>> I have done often with longer box and drawer sides.
>>
>> As one who is fond of all of my fingers, I am going to take his
>> advice. I see two options:
>>
>> -- Create a jig/fixture to hold the work and guide my plunge router
>> through the cut.
>>
>> -- Use an upcut bit on the table and raise the cutter into the work,
>> which it turn would be held by a fixture of some sort. Once the
>> cutter is at the proper depth, then advance the piece to the stop.
>>
>> So, I'm curious as to WREC denizens' practices and thoughts about the
>> second option.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>
>
> Several years ago I was cutting a pair of 2" long, through, and stopped
> 3/8" wide slots through a 1/4" thick piece of Ipe. The Ipe was 2" wide
> and about 3.5" long. FWIW Ipe is about 2.5 times harder than Oak.
>
> I successfully made this plunge through cut on a router table about 3~4
> thousand times.
>
> YOU DO NEED TO BE AWARE OF EVERY TING THAT CAN HAPPEN!!!!!
>
> I used the fence to determine the location of the slot relative to the
> edge of the wood, naturally.
>
> I used 2 stops, one at the beginning and one at the end of travel to
> establish the length of the stopped through cuts.
>
> With a rubber soled push block to set on top and to cover the exposed
> cutter as it pierced the top of the work I would place one end of the
> work at the stop on the right side of the fence and the work edge
> against the fence I would slowly and with both hands lower the left end
> of the work down on to the spinning 4 flute end mill bit to make the
> through plunge piercing. After the work was laying flat on the table I
> would push the work towards the left side stop to create the slot. I
> would flip the work and do the same on the other side to create the
> other parallel slot.
>
> Mind you I had complete concentration and after making a couple hundred
> of these slots in a couple of hours of production routing I was worn out.
>
> As Pat has warned It is not a very safe operation if you are not aware
> of what will happen if you don't do every thing correctly.
>
> I can give you a hint that might help.
>
> Make you pieces double length, cut the slot on the first half of the
> work, flip the piece end for end and make the other slot. After both
> slots are milled, cut the pieces apart into two halves.
>
> This will work if your pieces are not already unique.
>
Good advice.
This technique isn't inherently more dangerous than most other things we
do.
I would add, however, that it gets more dangerous, the more you do it,
the more repetitions you do. By that I mean you get more comfortable and
you try to do things more quickly after a dozen or so and that's when you
can lose concentration and let your guard down.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
> Alternatively you could drill a starting hole, set the box over that
> hole then spin up the router, still using a parallel fence setup.
>
> I might shut off the router and let it spin down at the end to avoid
> any possible unintentional hog out while lifting it back out.
I figured this out just short of the hard way! A simple foot switch with a
push-on-push-off switch, mounted in a metal electrical box, that your router
plugs into is just the ticket for this kind of thing. You don't have to
take your hands off the piece, look under the table, or any of that stuff.
Cheap parts - all availabe at the BORG.
To make it simple to build, just get a 4" box and flat cover and two romex
clamps and whatever length of cord you want to run from the floor switch to
an outlet. Get a male grounded connector and a female grounded connector
(120v). Mount the switch in the cover of the box, cut off a foot or so of
your cord and run it from the box with a female connector on it for the
router to plug into. Run the remainder of the cord from the box with the
male connector, to plug into the wall. Make the necessary connections to
the switch, etc. in the box and you're done.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 9/5/13 3:26 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's one he might consider.
>>
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30049&cat=1,240,41065
>
> Or if you prefer to go slumming, they have these over at HF
> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=foot+switch
>
Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any safety
aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with my router and
like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> Here's one he might consider.
>>
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30049&cat=1,240,41065
>
> Or if you prefer to go slumming, they have these over at HF
> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=foot+switch
Never saw that at Harbor Freight. If I were in need of another, I'd just go
get it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/5/13 3:26 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here's one he might consider.
>>>
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30049&cat=1,240,41065
>>
>> Or if you prefer to go slumming, they have these over at HF
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=foot+switch
>>
>
> Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any
> safety aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with my
> router and like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
I would not use the momentary switch. That forces you to remain in what can
become an awkward position, in order to keep your foot on the switch. I
disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact as I said - it could be
argued that momentary can create its own unsafe environment.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 9/5/13 7:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/5/13 3:26 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's one he might consider.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30049&cat=1,240,41065
>>>
>>> Or if you prefer to go slumming, they have these over at HF
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=foot+switch
>>>
>>
>> Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any
>> safety aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with my
>> router and like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
>
> I would not use the momentary switch. That forces you to remain in what can
> become an awkward position, in order to keep your foot on the switch.
If you're in an awkward position *with* a foot switch, you're in an
awkward position *without* it. I'm not in the habit of moving around
when using my router table. If anything, it encourages you to find safer
methods to move the work piece across the table.
> I
> disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact as I said - it could be
> argued that momentary can create its own unsafe environment.
>
Not in my experience. If something sudden were to happen, your instinct
would be to step away, stopping the router.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/6/13 12:25 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2013 20:38:00 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact as I said - it could be
>> argued that momentary can create its own unsafe environment.
>
> I agree. A fast spinning, smooth cutting router bit would turn into a
> wood grabbing toothed monster if it suddenly slowed RPM.
>
That's just wrong, period. Have you ever used a router?
Have you ever done exactly what you said-- stop the router while engaged
in wood?
It doesn't do that.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/6/13 12:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 00:35:07 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> That's just wrong, period. Have you ever used a router?
>> Have you ever done exactly what you said-- stop the router while engaged
>> in wood?
>
> Yes, actually I have done it. Electrical failure while I was cutting
> the ends of door rails to match the stiles. The bit *did* slow down
> quickly, but it was a wood shuddering, bucking action that left two
> inches of jagged, splintered end wood in my hands.
>
> Maybe you're talking about straight bits slowing down. I was using a
> stile cutting bit where a significant amount of wood profile is riding
> against the bit. I was lucky that I had a good grasp on the wood or it
> would have spun the wood around somewhere, maybe even at me.
>
> Don't believe me? Go try it yourself.
>
I have done it. It doesn't result in a "wood grabbing... monster."
Don't use such exaggerated hyperbole if you don't want to be called on it.
Your description above it much more accurate, but I still see nothing
dangerous about that. Presumably, you still have a firm grasp of the
wood. However, from your description, I suspect two things. 1. your
bit is not very sharp. 2 your feed rate is two fast.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 9/6/13 6:49 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I don't care what you see. And, that's the thing, you can only
> suspect, but you don't really know because you weren't there. If I
> hadn't been holding onto the rail tightly, it would have shot off the
> table, not too differently from a kick back.
>
How is that different from a running bit?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
-MIKE- wrote:
>
> If you're in an awkward position *with* a foot switch, you're in an
> awkward position *without* it. I'm not in the habit of moving around
> when using my router table. If anything, it encourages you to find
> safer methods to move the work piece across the table.
>
I think this is the aspect we disagree on Mike. I do find that I move
somewhat while working at my router table. Not a lot, but some. Having a
foot tied to one place just to keep a switch on strikes me as awkward.
Prior to using a foot switch, I simply turned my router on, and went to work
on the piece - the same way that (probably) 90% of people do. Never
presented any real problem that was attributable to simply having the router
switched on. Any grab or other router anomoly typically happens so fast
that it's over before you could realize it and let your foot off the switch
anyway. The thing that made me go to a foot switch was simply that I really
disliked the process of reaching underneath the table - sometimes having to
look where I was reaching, to turn the router on and off. That always
struck me as an opportunity to do the bad stuff - slightly shift the
workpiece, etc.
>
>> I
>> disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact as I said - it
>> could be argued that momentary can create its own unsafe environment.
>>
>
> Not in my experience. If something sudden were to happen, your
> instinct would be to step away, stopping the router.
I agree with the instinct part, but to me, it's too late at that point so
any perceived safety aspect is only perceived. That said - perceived things
do have some value in our minds.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>>> Either way, make sure you get the momentary switch, otherwise any
>>> safety aspect is negated. I use one of those foot switches with my
>>> router and like knowing that it will shut off if my foot moves.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> I would not use the momentary switch. That forces you to remain in
>> what can become an awkward position, in order to keep your foot on
>> the switch. I disagree that any safety aspect is negated - in fact
>> as I said - it could be argued that momentary can create its own
>> unsafe environment.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> You are entitled to your misguided opinion but you would be WRONG.
Really?
>
> A foot switch provides the same function as an "Emergency Stop"
> momentary contact push button.
>
> If you move your foot, you remove power, the router comes to a stop.
>
> All is well IF you remain in fixed position until router comes to a
> stop.
>
> If you want to use a maintained contact foot switch as a matter of
> convenience, so be it, but it is no longer providing a safety
> function.
I disagree. The switch provides the ability to turn the router on and off
without looking under the table to hit the router switch, and also allows
you to keep a secure hold on the workpiece from start to finish. That is
indeed a safety function.
>
> Personally, I prefer a maintained contact switch mounted on the front
> of the router table, functioning the same way a table saw switch
> functions.
>
So, that completely contradicts what you just said above. I'm not sure
which side of this discussion you're really coming down on Lew.
> I used a momentary contact foot switch in the boat yard to pump resin
> and
> another to control the resin mixer.
I use momentary contact switches for a lot of things, but those aren't part
of this discussion.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Not at all.
>
> A momentary contact switch in a foot operated switch provides the
> "Dead Man"
> switch function required for a safety device.
>
> In addition, it provides under voltage proction if the necessary
> additional devices have been included.
>
> A "Push on, push off" switch whether it is mounted in a foot switch or
> a wall switch, provides a convenience function, but definitely a
> SAFETY function.
>
I guess we'll just have to disagree on how much safety is really offered by
the momentary switch versus other problems it can introduce.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 9/12/2013 7:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Not at all.
>>>
>>> A momentary contact switch in a foot operated switch provides the
>>> "Dead Man"
>>> switch function required for a safety device.
>>>
>>> In addition, it provides under voltage proction if the necessary
>>> additional devices have been included.
>>>
>>> A "Push on, push off" switch whether it is mounted in a foot switch
>>> or a wall switch, provides a convenience function, but definitely a
>>> SAFETY function.
>>>
>>
>> I guess we'll just have to disagree on how much safety is really
>> offered by the momentary switch versus other problems it can
>> introduce.
>
>
> Regardless of which switch you use to turn off the router none offer
> much safety if they don't stop the cutter dead in it tracks. A
> coasting down bit or blade can do as much damage as one that is under
> power.
No contest. Going back to my original point - the only thing I ever cared
about with a foot switch was the ability to turn it on and off without
having to reach under my router table and grope for and/or look for the
router power switch. I considered that to be quite helpful for me.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:06:40 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>I have done it. It doesn't result in a "wood grabbing... monster."
>Don't use such exaggerated hyperbole if you don't want to be called on it.
You've done the exact same thing with a rail bit while cutting end
grain? You're FULL OF SHIT.
>Your description above it much more accurate, but I still see nothing
>dangerous about that. Presumably, you still have a firm grasp of the
>wood. However, from your description, I suspect two things. 1. your
>bit is not very sharp. 2 your feed rate is two fast.
I don't care what you see. And, that's the thing, you can only
suspect, but you don't really know because you weren't there. If I
hadn't been holding onto the rail tightly, it would have shot off the
table, not too differently from a kick back.
Call it hyperbole, call it whatever you want, but since you weren't
there, the fact is you JUST DON'T KNOW! So STFU!
On 9/12/2013 9:39 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/12/2013 7:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> A momentary contact switch in a foot operated switch provides the
>>>> "Dead Man"
>>>> switch function required for a safety device.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, it provides under voltage proction if the necessary
>>>> additional devices have been included.
>>>>
>>>> A "Push on, push off" switch whether it is mounted in a foot switch
>>>> or a wall switch, provides a convenience function, but definitely a
>>>> SAFETY function.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I guess we'll just have to disagree on how much safety is really
>>> offered by the momentary switch versus other problems it can
>>> introduce.
>>
>>
>> Regardless of which switch you use to turn off the router none offer
>> much safety if they don't stop the cutter dead in it tracks. A
>> coasting down bit or blade can do as much damage as one that is under
>> power.
>
> No contest. Going back to my original point - the only thing I ever cared
> about with a foot switch was the ability to turn it on and off without
> having to reach under my router table and grope for and/or look for the
> router power switch. I considered that to be quite helpful for me.
>
Do doubt a convenience to step away rather than to reach for.
But having said that and referring back to milling the double through
slots in the thousands of pieces of Ipe, I never turned the router off.
While safer to let the bit spin down to a stop it would have tripled
my time at the task so that two hours of continuous production would
have taken 5~6 hours and the fatigue of those extra hours would probably
have introduced as much risk as reversing the plunge procedure. I had a
pretty good routine for removing the work when the bit was still spinning.