We've all bought bolts and nuts.
If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
You just want them to be long enough and thick enough to fasten
whatever needs to be fastened.
If you are like me you know about the common types of bolts and what
they are for - and you get by.
If you are like me, you probably never gave much consideration to the
threads on the bolts. They just came along with the bolts. You order
1/4-20's or 8-32's, or 3/8-16's but still don't think much about what
it all means.
I never did - until last Friday.
Last Friday I found out that we had a little bolt problem at work -
more accurately, we had a little thread problem.
The company that I work for, like many companies, orders stuff from
China.
We buy metal parts from them.
This particular part has a weldnut on it that is intended to receive a
3/8-16 stem threaded stem for a caster.
If you are like me, you think that the guy on the other end, who is to
punch and tap the hole for this common caster stem, won't really need
much more of a description than that.
Damn - assumptions are wild and terrible things.
By the time I was done I had spent three hours searching on the
internet, resulting in going to Borders to buy Machinery's Handbook
(27th edition) ($85.00) (Type smaller than the Book Of The Month
Club version of the OED) and then reading for hours over the weekend,
simply to understand the most basic terminology.
"It ain't rocket science"
Damned near is.
By the time I got done trying to understand major and minor diameters,
pitch diameter, thread pitch, thread engagement, fit classes, the
negotiation between the British Standard and the American Standard to
resolve the argument over flat bottoms v. rounded, helical degree
standards, grade bolts and the effect on relief, why square section
threads are more efficient but don't work, why Acme is not somewhere
to buy food, how metric bolts vary from lesser standards, etc., etc.,
etc. - I was plumb wore out.
I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
But I got a cool book out of the deal.
If you work with metal, take a look at the Machinery's Handbook.
You can sit that sucker by the can for the next twelve years and not
get through it all.
And it has some great stuff in it.
(watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
"John McCoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
>> Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>
>> I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
>> ten times more.
>
> Older ones are better in my opinion - they have info on things like
> taper taps (by which I mean taps for threading tapered holes, not
> starting taps, which folk now-a-days miscall as taper taps).
>
>> When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
>> Physics.
>
> Never have found a need to look in the Chemical Rubber book
> since college, myself. I wouldn't call it as useful as the
> Machinery's Handbook.
I have no occupational need for that kind of information, but it's
surprising how many times I look up stuff just 'cause I'm interested. The
internet just about killed me because my appetite for factoids is (was)
insatiable. When I started forgetting how to spell I figured I was full
(never thought that could happen 'till it did). I wish I'd known; I would
have left it in the books and just focussed on what I needed to know for
whatever I was doing. Now I'm wondering what I have to forget in order to
make room for the woodworking skills I have yet to develop.
My wife shakes her head that I find something like the CRC Handbook
entertaining.
- Owen -
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:11:01 -0500, "Robin Lee" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Now you just need a set of Audel's Carpenter and Builders Guides, and a CRC
>physics and chemistry handbook..... :)
Robin Lee keeps a Rubber Bible in the bog!
I always knew Lee Valley were Our Kind Of People 8-)
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>We've all bought bolts and nuts.
>
>If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
>
Amazing stuff some of the things we take for granted or consider just
plain boring.
... snip
>
>I never did - until last Friday.
>
... snip
>
>Damn - assumptions are wild and terrible things.
>
I have two signs up at my cubicle at work:
"Assumptions are the mother of all screwups" and
"When looking for a reason as to why things went wrong, never rule out
sheer stupidity"
... more snip
>"It ain't rocket science"
>
>Damned near is.
>
Nothing is as simple as it looks. Stuff we take for granted or think of
as simple, usually isn't.
... snip
>
>I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
>guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
>of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
>etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
>hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
>
Lots o' work for a short summary, eh. But that's the best, most elegant
solutions: Lots of initial investigation allowing one to boil it all down
to a simple, succinct result.
... snip
>
>(watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
>at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
... ayup, it wasn't because we weren't interested -- just always
finishing that homework assignment (engineering profs always believed that
because it was a weekend, there was that much more time to do more work),
getting ready for the next exam (which never bore even the remotest
resemblance to the material we had studied), or getting ready for finals
(which never bore any resemblence to either any of the previous course
material nor the previous exams). Lots o' fun it was.
... and then went and signed on to get a Master's degree.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>We've all bought bolts and nuts.
>
>If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
>
Amazing stuff some of the things we take for granted or consider just
plain boring.
... snip
>
>I never did - until last Friday.
>
... snip
>
>Damn - assumptions are wild and terrible things.
>
I have two signs up at my cubicle at work:
"Assumptions are the mother of all screwups" and
"When looking for a reason as to why things went wrong, never rule out
sheer stupidity"
... more snip
>"It ain't rocket science"
>
>Damned near is.
>
Nothing is as simple as it looks. Stuff we take for granted or think of
as simple, usually isn't.
... snip
>
>I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
>guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
>of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
>etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
>hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
>
Lots o' work for a short summary, eh. But that's the best, most elegant
solutions: Lots of initial investigation allowing one to boil it all down
to a simple, succinct result.
... snip
>
>(watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
>at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
... ayup, it wasn't because we weren't interested -- just always
finishing that homework assignment (engineering profs always believed that
because it was a weekend, there was that much more time to do more work),
getting ready for the next exam (which never bore even the remotest
resemblance to the material we had studied), or getting ready for finals
(which never bore any resemblence to either any of the previous course
material nor the previous exams). Lots o' fun it was.
... and then went and signed on to get a Master's degree.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Owen Lawrence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John McCoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
>>> Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>>
>>> I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
>>> ten times more.
>>
>> Older ones are better in my opinion - they have info on things like
>> taper taps (by which I mean taps for threading tapered holes, not
>> starting taps, which folk now-a-days miscall as taper taps).
>>
>>> When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
>>> Physics.
>>
>> Never have found a need to look in the Chemical Rubber book
>> since college, myself. I wouldn't call it as useful as the
>> Machinery's Handbook.
>
> I have no occupational need for that kind of information, but it's
> surprising how many times I look up stuff just 'cause I'm interested. The
> internet just about killed me because my appetite for factoids is (was)
> insatiable. When I started forgetting how to spell I figured I was full
> (never thought that could happen 'till it did). I wish I'd known; I would
> have left it in the books and just focussed on what I needed to know for
> whatever I was doing. Now I'm wondering what I have to forget in order to
> make room for the woodworking skills I have yet to develop.
>
> My wife shakes her head that I find something like the CRC Handbook
> entertaining.
I sometimes think it should spill over. I wish all the stuff floating around
in my head were useful.
I just bid on an old version of MH on, of course, Ebay. I knew I couldn't
afford the new edition, but until someone here mentioned getting one on
Ebay, the penny just hung in the slot without dropping. Idiotic. I've been
buying books on various subjects from Ebay for a considerable time.
Like you, I think maybe my personal HD needs a few more gigabytes.
I've had that book on my night stand for about a year, I just open just
about any page and there good reading. I have another one from about 1950,
it also has a wealth of information.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We've all bought bolts and nuts.
>
> If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
>
> You just want them to be long enough and thick enough to fasten
> whatever needs to be fastened.
>
> If you are like me you know about the common types of bolts and what
> they are for - and you get by.
>
> If you are like me, you probably never gave much consideration to the
> threads on the bolts. They just came along with the bolts. You order
> 1/4-20's or 8-32's, or 3/8-16's but still don't think much about what
> it all means.
>
> I never did - until last Friday.
>
> Last Friday I found out that we had a little bolt problem at work -
> more accurately, we had a little thread problem.
>
> The company that I work for, like many companies, orders stuff from
> China.
>
> We buy metal parts from them.
>
> This particular part has a weldnut on it that is intended to receive a
> 3/8-16 stem threaded stem for a caster.
>
> If you are like me, you think that the guy on the other end, who is to
> punch and tap the hole for this common caster stem, won't really need
> much more of a description than that.
>
> Damn - assumptions are wild and terrible things.
>
> By the time I was done I had spent three hours searching on the
> internet, resulting in going to Borders to buy Machinery's Handbook
> (27th edition) ($85.00) (Type smaller than the Book Of The Month
> Club version of the OED) and then reading for hours over the weekend,
> simply to understand the most basic terminology.
>
> "It ain't rocket science"
>
> Damned near is.
>
> By the time I got done trying to understand major and minor diameters,
> pitch diameter, thread pitch, thread engagement, fit classes, the
> negotiation between the British Standard and the American Standard to
> resolve the argument over flat bottoms v. rounded, helical degree
> standards, grade bolts and the effect on relief, why square section
> threads are more efficient but don't work, why Acme is not somewhere
> to buy food, how metric bolts vary from lesser standards, etc., etc.,
> etc. - I was plumb wore out.
>
> I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
> guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
> of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
> etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
> hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
>
> But I got a cool book out of the deal.
>
> If you work with metal, take a look at the Machinery's Handbook.
>
> You can sit that sucker by the can for the next twelve years and not
> get through it all.
>
> And it has some great stuff in it.
>
> (watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
> at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
I've had that book on my night stand for about a year, I just open just
about any page and there good reading. I have another one from about 1950,
it also has a wealth of information.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We've all bought bolts and nuts.
>
> If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
>
> You just want them to be long enough and thick enough to fasten
> whatever needs to be fastened.
>
> If you are like me you know about the common types of bolts and what
> they are for - and you get by.
>
> If you are like me, you probably never gave much consideration to the
> threads on the bolts. They just came along with the bolts. You order
> 1/4-20's or 8-32's, or 3/8-16's but still don't think much about what
> it all means.
>
> I never did - until last Friday.
>
> Last Friday I found out that we had a little bolt problem at work -
> more accurately, we had a little thread problem.
>
> The company that I work for, like many companies, orders stuff from
> China.
>
> We buy metal parts from them.
>
> This particular part has a weldnut on it that is intended to receive a
> 3/8-16 stem threaded stem for a caster.
>
> If you are like me, you think that the guy on the other end, who is to
> punch and tap the hole for this common caster stem, won't really need
> much more of a description than that.
>
> Damn - assumptions are wild and terrible things.
>
> By the time I was done I had spent three hours searching on the
> internet, resulting in going to Borders to buy Machinery's Handbook
> (27th edition) ($85.00) (Type smaller than the Book Of The Month
> Club version of the OED) and then reading for hours over the weekend,
> simply to understand the most basic terminology.
>
> "It ain't rocket science"
>
> Damned near is.
>
> By the time I got done trying to understand major and minor diameters,
> pitch diameter, thread pitch, thread engagement, fit classes, the
> negotiation between the British Standard and the American Standard to
> resolve the argument over flat bottoms v. rounded, helical degree
> standards, grade bolts and the effect on relief, why square section
> threads are more efficient but don't work, why Acme is not somewhere
> to buy food, how metric bolts vary from lesser standards, etc., etc.,
> etc. - I was plumb wore out.
>
> I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
> guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
> of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
> etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
> hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
>
> But I got a cool book out of the deal.
>
> If you work with metal, take a look at the Machinery's Handbook.
>
> You can sit that sucker by the can for the next twelve years and not
> get through it all.
>
> And it has some great stuff in it.
>
> (watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
> at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
(snip)
> You can sit that sucker by the can for the next twelve years and not
> get through it all.
>
> And it has some great stuff in it.
>
> (watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
> at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
Hi Tom -
Now you just need a set of Audel's Carpenter and Builders Guides, and a CRC
physics and chemistry handbook..... :)
Cheers -
Rob
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
> Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
> I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
> ten times more.
Older ones are better in my opinion - they have info on things like
taper taps (by which I mean taps for threading tapered holes, not
starting taps, which folk now-a-days miscall as taper taps).
> When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
> Physics.
Never have found a need to look in the Chemical Rubber book
since college, myself. I wouldn't call it as useful as the
Machinery's Handbook.
John
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:10:05 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor
qualm, John McCoy <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
>> Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>
>> I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
>> ten times more.
>
>Older ones are better in my opinion - they have info on things like
>taper taps (by which I mean taps for threading tapered holes, not
>starting taps, which folk now-a-days miscall as taper taps).
I picked up a post-WWII copy ('53, my year of birth) which had all the
newest info after our gearup for the war. Woiks for me!
>> When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
>> Physics.
>
>Never have found a need to look in the Chemical Rubber book
>since college, myself. I wouldn't call it as useful as the
>Machinery's Handbook.
I've needed mine for calculations, metric conversion formulae, etc.
It's not as handy as my new/used MH.
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
> I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
> guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, >
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
You mean there's finally some guy in CHINA who can't read something that WE
wrote because it was written by someone who barely knows what he's talking
about???? (no offense, Tom).
FINALLY!
Retribution for all those years of crappy instruction sheets.
You've done your country proud, Tom.
jc
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:11:01 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Robin Lee" <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>Hi Tom -
>
>Now you just need a set of Audel's Carpenter and Builders Guides, and a CRC
>physics and chemistry handbook..... :)
Don't forget Audel's Steam & Pipefitter guides, and their Hydraulics,
Pumps & Compressors volumes. Audel is TOPS!
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
snipe.......
> I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
> guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
> of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
> etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
> hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
snipe...
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
What...? Ya mean ya just don't slam dunk those spiraled lookin suckers home
with the big 'ammer and be done with it? Geeeeezuuus Tom, yer getting pretty
picky in your old age and now resorting to books fer learnin too. Hell, and
here I thought you was a wondrous wooddorker all along........
;-)
Bob S.
snipe.......
> I finally did learn enough to be able to write to the Chinese engineer
> guy in language that I hope is acceptable to him, which quoted a bunch
> of standards, engineering tables, accepted tolerances, etc., etc.,
> etc., - which ultimately came down to the fact that, "Your friggin'
> hole is too big and your threads fit sloppy".
snipe...
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
What...? Ya mean ya just don't slam dunk those spiraled lookin suckers home
with the big 'ammer and be done with it? Geeeeezuuus Tom, yer getting pretty
picky in your old age and now resorting to books fer learnin too. Hell, and
here I thought you was a wondrous wooddorker all along........
;-)
Bob S.
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>By the time I was done I had spent three hours searching on the
>internet, resulting in going to Borders to buy Machinery's Handbook
>(27th edition) ($85.00) (Type smaller than the Book Of The Month
>Club version of the OED) and then reading for hours over the weekend,
>simply to understand the most basic terminology.
I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
ten times more.
>If you work with metal, take a look at the Machinery's Handbook.
I'd like to see a show of hands here for anyone who does not work
with metal on at least a seasonal basis. I'll bet the number fits
on one hand.
>You can sit that sucker by the can for the next twelve years and not
>get through it all.
>
>And it has some great stuff in it.
Ayup. It'll either tell you why you effed up or how not to, all
depending upon -when- you consult it. DAMHIKT.
>(watson - who thinks he now has a handle on why the engineering boys
>at college didn't go out much on the weekends.)
When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
Physics. Its heft is nearly identical to that of Machinery's Handbook.
I got mine during my junior year in HS when taking Chemistry (49th
edition, '68-69) and still haven't finished it. ;)
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:10:05 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Tom
>> Watson <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
>
>> I found an older copy on eBay for $4. It was worth every cent and
>> ten times more.
>
>Older ones are better in my opinion - they have info on things like
>taper taps (by which I mean taps for threading tapered holes, not
>starting taps, which folk now-a-days miscall as taper taps).
>
>> When you're done with that, go find a CRC Handbook of Chemistry and
>> Physics.
>
>Never have found a need to look in the Chemical Rubber book
>since college, myself. I wouldn't call it as useful as the
>Machinery's Handbook.
>
>John
Particularly with the advent of calculators and various math programs,
particularly Maple and Mathematica -- the need for the logarithmic and
integral tables diminished considerably.
I still have my CRC handbook, a 1976 version purchased at a steep
discount in 1977. Cool stuff in it, just not something one needs to reach
for very often.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:05:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Charles Self" <[email protected]> quickly quoth:
Owen Lawrence said:
>> My wife shakes her head that I find something like the CRC Handbook
>> entertaining.
What do women know? ;)
>I sometimes think it should spill over. I wish all the stuff floating around
>in my head were useful.
I hear that. If I had a penny for each tidbit of info in my gray
matter, useful or not, I'd be a very rich man.
>I just bid on an old version of MH on, of course, Ebay. I knew I couldn't
>afford the new edition, but until someone here mentioned getting one on
>Ebay, the penny just hung in the slot without dropping. Idiotic. I've been
>buying books on various subjects from Ebay for a considerable time.
>
>Like you, I think maybe my personal HD needs a few more gigabytes.
Other sources for inexpensive copies of good books are www.half.com
(now ebay subsidiary), www.edwardrhamilton.com , & www.abebooks.com.
I never pay over half the retail, and usually nab 'em for 20-25%.
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> writes:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:45 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>We've all bought bolts and nuts.
>>
>>If you are like me, you don't think much about them.
>>
>
> Amazing stuff some of the things we take for granted or consider just
> plain boring.
Like drill bits ;-)
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23