Routing marble?

>You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch
>the fireworks, lol.

One gets the feeling that we might all see a "This machine is not
designed for shaping *ROCKS*" on our routers in a while.

Thanks for all the responses! First some clarification; when I said OLD
marble it is from a victorian bedroom set so from the late 1800's to
early 1900's and sort of creme with the veining. When I said 1 side and
two partials, it is only about 17 inches total to be worked.

Having read the responses, you should be aware my big router is a
Hitachi M12V. I would need the M12VWP (waterproof) for the cooling
ideas :)

Since there seems to be some consensus that it is workable, I'm going
to try to knock the edges off (ala Norm) with the Makita grinder. As
an old metal worker, there's nothing you can't do with a Makita
grinder.

Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth
the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside!

I'll let you know what I try and how it goes. The good news is that I
have an second identical piece if I screw this one up (and don't kill
myself).


Jerry

dadiOH wrote:
> simoogle wrote:
> > I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
> > with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained
> > poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
> > perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
> > The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??
> > Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas?
>
> Well, I rout aluminum from time to time and marble is way softer.
> Still, I'd think it is too brittle to rout well with a standard router
> bit....need something like a rotary file with lots of small cutters,
> carbide not necessary.

Marble softer than Aluminum? Seems unlikely. Can't find
a Moh's harndess for Aluminum, but marble is 3.0 or higher.

The oxide coating that naturally forms on aluminum
is certainly harder than marble if that is what you mean. But
that layer is too thin to matter when milling aluminum.

--

FF

Morris Dovey wrote:
> simoogle (in [email protected])
> said:
>
> | I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted
> | poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed &
> | stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which
> | fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of
> | two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to
> | match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand?
> | Other ideas?
>
> Jerry...
>
> Marble can be machined with CNC routers. I would guess that
> carbide-tipped bits with 1/2" or larger shanks are used. Spindle and
> feed speeds would need to be chosen carefully, and there'd need to be
> an effective cooling system to prevent overheating the bit.

I'd expect the cutters suitable for even soft stone to be grinding
cutters, not 'slicing cutters' like those used for wood or metal.

>
> My quick search turned up a granite (harder than marble, I think) at
> http://www.cncmotion.com/granite.htm - which will provide some idea of
> what the machines look like.
>
> Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
> Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more
> like marble than granite.

Isn't corian plastic? E.g. an organic polymer. Hardly comparable
to rock.

--

FF

OK the outcome. I chickened out on using a router and went with the
grinders. It cut like butter with a medium 4.5 inch grinder wheel and
left bright white if somewhat rough edge. I then hit it with a medium
grit sanding disk with the little overlapping flaps. It smoothed it OK
but burnt it a bit. I used no cooling just moved the grinder. I had
three edges to do, two about 2" long to match an existing ogee and the
third about 12" which was a straight cut. The first try on small edge
is OK, the second came out real good & will be the front. I just
beveled the remaining side for now.

The next problem was the existing piece was an antique "tea with creme"
color and the new edges were bright white so it didn't matter how close
the cut was, it still stood out like a sore thumb. Ten minutes later
and a quarter can of Comet cleanser, it all blended together. Based on
how the Comet erased the burn marks, I think I'll tune it up at my
leisure with a profile sander and silicon carbide paper. So I never
tried routing, but for that adventureous soul out there...it might
work.

Thanks for all the advice.


Jerry

simoogle wrote:
> ... I then hit it with a medium
> grit sanding disk with the little overlapping flaps. It smoothed it OK
> but burnt it a bit. I used no cooling just moved the grinder.
> ... Ten minutes later
> and a quarter can of Comet cleanser, it all blended together. Based on
> how the Comet erased the burn marks ...

Hmm, I guess the burn marks were from materials in the sandpaper,
like the adhesive that holds the grit onto the paper. Makes you
wonder if similar burn marks on wood (from power sanding--not
power sawing) might be cleanable with solvent.

--

FF

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:58:09 -0500, the blithe spirit "Battleax"
<[email protected]> clearly indicated:

>
>"max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:BF48E0E0.5D97A%[email protected]...
>> I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router
>bits
>> that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide.
>> max
>
>You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch
>the fireworks, lol.

I watched a show the other night about a trade school. The guy was
learning how to cut marble in the quarry with a 13' long
carbide-tipped hydraulic-powered chainsaw. They used lots of water to
cool it and there were no sparks at all. Marble is very soft, not hard
like granite.

I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it.

--
Never ascribe to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity.
---------------
www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design

I wasn't going to respond to this thread since I didn't want anyone to get
hurt trying this, buttttt, I did put a 3/8 roundover on a slab of marble
with a router and a carbide bit about two years ago. I used a bit that was
about to be trashcanned anyway(cheapie), and an old crapsman router(my first
router, what did I know). I did it freehand and dry. The only problem was
the dust storm it made. A little polishing and it turmed out great. I now
have an MK 10" wetsaw and a diamond profile wheel so I wont be doing that
again.


--
"shut up and keep diggen"
Jerry

simoogle wrote:
> I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
> with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained
> poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
> perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
> The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??
> Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas?

Well, I rout aluminum from time to time and marble is way softer.
Still, I'd think it is too brittle to rout well with a standard router
bit....need something like a rotary file with lots of small cutters,
carbide not necessary.

Another consideration is: are you sure it is actually marble? Drop some
acid on it and see if it fizzes.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

simoogle wrote:
> I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
> with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained
> poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
> perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
> The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??
> Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry
>

I wouldn't attempt it. I'd look in the yellow pages for a stone cutter
that has the proper equipment and pay them to route it.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router bits
that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide.
max

> I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
> with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained
> poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
> perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
> The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??
> Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry
>

Patriarch (in [email protected])
said:

| "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:fJ_Ue.23$yo3.9035
| @news.uswest.net:
|
| <snip>
||| And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router
||| scares the dickens out of me.
||
|| It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based
|| coolant use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys
|| used water cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names
|| in *bricks* (not a typical use for the machine).
|
| My assumption is that the ShopBot was properly engineered to
| accomplish this and similar things.
|
| Such tools are infrequently sold at Ace Hardware, and never at
| Sears...

True (although I think the 'Bot was designed for woodworking - even if
people have set it up for all kinds of jobs with lasers, plasma
cutters, grinders,...)

It's possible to use a router on all kinds of unlikely materials (even
Kevlar!) - and it's hardly ever necessary to buy tooling for one-off
jobs when there are people around who already have that tooling and
have accumulated experience in using it.

I've tackled a few "iffy" jobs with the CNC router where I've left the
shop immediately after hitting the "start" key and returned when the
job finished. These days I take that kind of job to someone who knows
how to do it without risking injury.

Y'know, I just realized that I haven't bought _any_ tools at Ace (or
Sears) since I got my first LV catalog...

| Patriarch,
| who has no problem with using the right tool for the job...

--
Morris Dovey
who is pleased to still count to ten on his fingers :)

"simoogle" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> It cut like butter with a medium 4.5 inch grinder wheel and
> left bright white if somewhat rough edge.

This is very disappointing news. With all the conversation on the subject,
we needed something more dramatic. Shattering table tops, holes blown in
the walls from flying chips, tools exploding.

Simple tools and it worked. bummer.

"max" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BF48E0E0.5D97A%[email protected]...
> I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router
bits
> that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide.
> max

You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch
the fireworks, lol.

Here are some diamond bits...the price is a little high for something
you may not use often though.
.
http://ecprod.abrasive-tech.com/product.asp?ProdCat=16&ProdSubCat=20

Ken

dadiOH wrote:
> simoogle wrote:
>
>
>>Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth
>>the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside!
>
>
> I'd still use a HSS bit...not as brittle as carbide and *much* harder
> than the marble.
>
> --
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>

simoogle wrote:

> Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth
> the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside!

I'd still use a HSS bit...not as brittle as carbide and *much* harder
than the marble.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:o7XUe.3$yo3.4116
@news.uswest.net:

<snip>
>
> Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
> Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more
> like marble than granite.
>

I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice
escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess.

But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative.

And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router scares the
dickens out of me.

Patriarch

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:fJ_Ue.23$yo3.9035
@news.uswest.net:

<snip>
>| And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router
>| scares the dickens out of me.
>
> It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based coolant
> use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys used water
> cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names in *bricks*
> (not a typical use for the machine).
>

My assumption is that the ShopBot was properly engineered to accomplish
this and similar things.

Such tools are infrequently sold at Ace Hardware, and never at Sears...

Patriarch,
who has no problem with using the right tool for the job...

On 11 Sep 2005 15:55:45 -0700, "simoogle" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks for all the responses! First some clarification; when I said OLD
>marble it is from a victorian bedroom set so from the late 1800's to
>early 1900's and sort of creme with the veining. When I said 1 side and
>two partials, it is only about 17 inches total to be worked.
>
>Having read the responses, you should be aware my big router is a
>Hitachi M12V. I would need the M12VWP (waterproof) for the cooling
>ideas :)
>
>Since there seems to be some consensus that it is workable, I'm going
>to try to knock the edges off (ala Norm) with the Makita grinder. As
>an old metal worker, there's nothing you can't do with a Makita
>grinder.
>
>Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth
>the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside!
>
>I'll let you know what I try and how it goes. The good news is that I
>have an second identical piece if I screw this one up (and don't kill
>myself).
>
>
>Jerry



instead of using a router for the final shaping, consider using a
scraper. think big scratch stock.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:44:24 -0400, the blithe spirit Robatoy
<[email protected]> clearly indicated:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it.
>
>Water is the trick here... go ahead and cool your routerbit with a
>gardenhose..<G>

Uh, Rob, you forgot the disclaimer. Sure as shit, some idiot who
follows Boob Villa will go out and try this today. Best hurry!

--
Never ascribe to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity.
---------------
www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it.

Water is the trick here... go ahead and cool your routerbit with a
gardenhose..<G>

In article <[email protected]>,
"simoogle" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
> with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained
> poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
> perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
> The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??
> Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry

There is marble and there is marble. Most require diamonds and water to
cut, shape. The odd type of marble that can be worked dry, still needs
diamonds at slower speeds as heat is the enemy.
Carbide won't do the job.
BTDT

Patriarch (in [email protected])
said:

| "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:o7XUe.3$yo3.4116
| @news.uswest.net:
|
| <snip>
||
|| Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
|| Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is
|| more like marble than granite.
|
| I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice
| escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess.
|
| But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative.
|
| And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router
| scares the dickens out of me.

It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based coolant
use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys used water
cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names in *bricks*
(not a typical use for the machine).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:02:28 -0500, Patriarch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in news:o7XUe.3$yo3.4116
>@news.uswest.net:
>
><snip>
>>
>> Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
>> Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more
>> like marble than granite.
>>
>
>I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice
>escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess.
>
>But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative.
>
>And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router scares the
>dickens out of me.
>
>Patriarch


turning marble on a lathe is not that big a deal. I'd be a bit nervous
running a woodworking router bit on it freehand, though.

On 10 Sep 2005 17:44:30 -0700, "simoogle" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top
>perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides.
>The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How??

You can't rout marble. A router will cut it (marble is indeed pretty
soft) but a router just doesn't have the rigidity for it. If you have a
shaper (English term) which is like a big table-mounted router at a
slow speed, then you can do it. A spindle moulder (big shaper, with
replaceable knives) has too high a linear speed.

Diamond tooling works fine, but needs water or air blst cooling /
lubrication / dust removal. It's not something you can run in a
woodworking machine.

You can saw marble either dry, with a diamond sawblade in an angle
grinder, or wet with a diamond tilesaw.

Marble really is pretty soft though. Get a carbide "tile file" and do it
by hand. Then use a piece of tile setter's carbide-grit coated mesh to
smooth it, then plain old silicon carbide wet ad dry paper glued to a
plywood stick (or pulled tight over a cork block) to polish it. Don't
work the paper with your hand, or you'll sand thumblines into it.

simoogle (in [email protected])
said:

| I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted
| poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed &
| stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which
| fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of
| two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to
| match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand?
| Other ideas?

Jerry...

Marble can be machined with CNC routers. I would guess that
carbide-tipped bits with 1/2" or larger shanks are used. Spindle and
feed speeds would need to be chosen carefully, and there'd need to be
an effective cooling system to prevent overheating the bit.

My quick search turned up a granite (harder than marble, I think) at
http://www.cncmotion.com/granite.htm - which will provide some idea of
what the machines look like.

Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more
like marble than granite.

I would suggest _not_ attempting to freehand cut with a portable
router. Find someone with appropriate equipment and pay them to do the
job for you.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

[email protected] (in
[email protected]) said:

| Morris Dovey wrote:
||
|| Marble can be machined with CNC routers. I would guess that
|| carbide-tipped bits with 1/2" or larger shanks are used. Spindle
|| and feed speeds would need to be chosen carefully, and there'd
|| need to be an effective cooling system to prevent overheating the
|| bit.
|
| I'd expect the cutters suitable for even soft stone to be grinding
| cutters, not 'slicing cutters' like those used for wood or metal.

On the ShopBot Forum, at
http://www.talkshopbot.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=315&post=22151#
POST22151 you can see a marble (pet) gravestone that was routed with a
standard 90 degree V-cutter.

There's another discussion of routing marble with a photo at
http://www.talkshopbot.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=315&post=12599#
POST12599 (mind the wrap). Note that in this instance the router was a
Porter Cable running at 10,000 RPM and maximum depth of cut was 0.1".
Between passes, the user softened the marble by wetting it with water
(I just learned a new trick!)

|| My quick search turned up a granite (harder than marble, I think)
|| at http://www.cncmotion.com/granite.htm - which will provide some
|| idea of what the machines look like.
||
|| Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout
|| Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is
|| more like marble than granite.
|
| Isn't corian plastic? E.g. an organic polymer. Hardly comparable
| to rock.

You got the first part right. It's not rock. For routing purposes,
however, it's much like a soft rock (harder than soapstone, softer
than granite).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html