My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep taper
over their 35" length.
I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue together
4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going to
be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
find it?
Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
issue of FWW. <sigh>
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:45:57 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>For a country without a lot of hardwood forest left, you do have some
>beautiful wood available.
We have zero hardwood forest available for cutting. There are only a
handful (literally - I could probably name them) hardwood forests
left, and these are strictly hands-off. There are, if anything, too
many softwood forests around - these are rigid grid-planted
foreign-species softwood plantations, built post-war by the Forestry
Commission to keep us in pit-props during wartime. Fortunately they've
switched their planting strategy these days.
If you want oaks to fell, then it's nearly all singletons on farmland.
Maybe a few small stands of trees, but there really isn't an "oak
forest" you could go and take a chainsaw to. Beech woodland and ash
coppice is still rather more common.
Most of our oak these days is French though. I don't know where or
why, but the French seem to be clear-cutting the stuff like crazy.
We also have imported American oak - white, and a bit of red. I
suspect we're just getting the low-grade stuff though.
> AAMOF, from what I've seen, the mother lode of
>seasoned QS white oak is still in the UK ...
For finished work, then quite possibly so. Oak really is "the English
timber". If you ever get the chance, visit a house like Rufford Hall,
Moreton, or Bristol's Red Lodge. A timber framed house in oak,
panelled throughout in oak and furnished in oak.
>in furniture, churches,
>museums, on walls, as wainscotting, ad infinitum.
Wainscotting was never oak. Panelling - often linenfold carved for the
best work - was in oak, but the notion of "wainscotting" really marks
the end of the "age of oak". It was made in deal softwood, as part of
a major shift in interior decorating styles (I'd suggest James Ayres
"Domestic Interiors" for an excellent history of such things)
> Besides the ubiquitous
>"mahogany" of various species, you guys must have traded in it extensively
>during colonial days.
I don't think we ever traded oak too much - we've always been
importers of timber, rather than exporters. It was Nelson's Navy who
used most of it, but we didn't sell the stuff.
In my nearby city of Bath there's a visible shift from the rustic
poverty of the 17th century to the glories of Wood's 18th century
expansion as the luxurious and fashionable resort of Jane Austen. Fine
streets of buildings in the classical tradition, furnished with the
best of mahogany furniture from the West Indies' timber.
My own city of Bristol had much of its harbour trade in softwood
timber from the Baltic coast. Climb into the attic of a Bristol house
and you can see the difference - timber was cheap locally, and roof
timbers are noticeably more generous than in other towns. At the turn
of the century parts of the harbour were filled with "onkers", retired
tea clippers reduced to working out their last days importing timber.
It's no accident that Plimsoll developed his Plimsoll loading line in
Bristol, and its different marks for fresh and salt water because of
this Baltic trade. Some were reckoned to only be safely afloat when
filled with buoyant timber ! They take their name of "onker" from the
windmill-driven pumps they carried to deal with the leakage.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:46:26 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>you won't find 12/4 stock in that wood.
I already have 3" oak - both flat and quartered. There's no problem
in producing the stuff, although it does command top dollar,
especially the QS.
For squares, I can get sizes up to 3"x4" off the shelf and not pay too
much for it (3x4 is about twice the cube price I pay for 1" boards).
If I can cope with it still being rather green, I can have 12" square
and bigger from the timber framing guy, and it's even cheaper
(although if I'm buying by the truckload, I should hope so too)
--
Smert' spamionam
"patrick conroy" wrote in message
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep
taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something
else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue
together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going
to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
This is a _very_ common problem when you work with quarter sawn white oak as
you simply won't find 12/4 stock because of the way it dries ... or doesn't
dry.
I have fabricated legs up to 4" out of 8/4 QSWO with careful matching of
grain. Except for the taper in your case, another method to consider might
be the old Stickley technique where each leg is made from four triangular
pieces glued together so that all four faces of the leg show the typical ray
flecks of QSWO.
With the radical taper, your best bet will likely be a glue-up with careful
matching of the grain, or back to the idea of a thicker veneer ... it can be
done.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Jim Polaski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:jpolaski->
> http://www.talaricohardwoods.com/index.html
>
Thanks Jim - will bookmark that site!
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
> For finished work, then quite possibly so. Oak really is "the English
> timber". If you ever get the chance, visit a house like Rufford Hall,
> Moreton, or Bristol's Red Lodge. A timber framed house in oak,
> panelled throughout in oak and furnished in oak.
<snip of much good stuff>
> My own city of Bristol had much of its harbour trade in softwood
> timber from the Baltic coast. Climb into the attic of a Bristol house
> and you can see the difference - timber was cheap locally, and roof
> timbers are noticeably more generous than in other towns. At the turn
> of the century parts of the harbour were filled with "onkers", retired
> tea clippers reduced to working out their last days importing timber.
> It's no accident that Plimsoll developed his Plimsoll loading line in
> Bristol, and its different marks for fresh and salt water because of
> this Baltic trade. Some were reckoned to only be safely afloat when
> filled with buoyant timber ! They take their name of "onker" from the
> windmill-driven pumps they carried to deal with the leakage.
Well done, Andy. Thanks for a very informative, as usual, post.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
there are a ton of mail-order wood suppliers (www.woodfinder.com) which will
have it.
I'm curious why you have such a tough time gluing up wood blocks. Do you
edge glue successfully? It shouldn't be any different. If you match the
grain carefully, you'll be fine.
I was in a similar situation and needed 3" square stock to use for some bed
posts (also tapered as in your case). I glued up 3 pieces of 1" or so thick
hard maple. The grain in hard maple (not figured) is pretty mild, so it
wasn't too tough to get a good match and the glue lines were nearly
invisible.
At any rate, I'm sure you can find the wood online if you decide not to glue
it up.
Mike
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep
taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something
else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue
together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going
to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
>
>
You might check with Sears-Trostel in Fort Collins. I "think" I saw
12/4 material there recently, although I can't swear to it. See
http://www.sears-trostel.com/ for contact/location info.
--mike
In article <[email protected]>, patrick@conroy-
family.net says...
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
>
>
>
Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:58:06 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>This is a _very_ common problem when you work with quarter sawn white
>>oak as you simply won't find 12/4 stock because of the way it dries
>
> So use flatsawn, saw squares out of it, and rotate them. You have to
> pick your boards, but it's good enough for jazz.
>
Somebody did a magazine article on this. While I remember reading it in
the last six months, there is no telling when it was published. Woodsmith,
maybe?
That's the problem with having access to a great library. ;-)
Patriarch
Since you did not list a wood type: HD has 4" fence post that will plane
down nicely to 12/4.
I normally glue up 8/4 and then plane to size; no problem with seams
showing.
If you can give a little on the size; Austin Hardwoods does stock some 10/4
(or did).
--
Alan Bierbaum
Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Current project: http://home.comcast.net/~cabierbaum/
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep
taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something
else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue
together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going
to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
>
>
"emelbee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> You might check with Sears-Trostel in Fort Collins. I "think" I saw
> 12/4 material there recently, although I can't swear to it. See
> http://www.sears-trostel.com/ for contact/location info.
>
> --mike
Thanks Mike. It's a drive but might be worth a look!
Much appreciated!
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:58:06 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >This is a _very_ common problem when you work with quarter sawn white oak
as
> >you simply won't find 12/4 stock because of the way it dries
>
> So use flatsawn, saw squares out of it, and rotate them. You have to
> pick your boards, but it's good enough for jazz.
Not really more advantageous with regard to thickness than doing it out of
8/4 in the first place, IME. Actually, and in a pinch, I've ripped 8" wide
5/4 flatsawn stock into 1" wide pieces, turned the pieces 90 degrees on edge
and glued them back together, ending up with something that is now, for all
practical purposes, quartersawn.
The point is still the same, you must come up with a workaround since, like
the OP, you won't find 12/4 stock in that wood.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:00:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something
>>else?
>
> What timber ? Are you chasing quartersawn figure ?
Cherry or mahogany is at the top of the list... Nope.
> Laminate them. A good glue line should be invisible.
<sigh> :) Thanks... Another technique I need to work at. My last
lamination was pretty "sucky"... I think the seam was tight, but the two
boards were different enough to make the technique quite apparent.
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:58:06 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>This is a _very_ common problem when you work with quarter sawn white oak as
>you simply won't find 12/4 stock because of the way it dries
So use flatsawn, saw squares out of it, and rotate them. You have to
pick your boards, but it's good enough for jazz.
--
Smert' spamionam
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:00:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep taper
> >over their 35" length.
> >
> >I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
> >I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue together
> >4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going to
> >be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
> >
> >What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> >find it?
> >Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> >issue of FWW. <sigh>
> >
>
>
> each leg 4 pieces, mitered at the corners.
I thought this was standard practice, with the exception that a lock
miter joint is now popular for preparing the mating surfaces. Am I
mistaken?
Cheers,
Mike
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> > I thought this was standard practice, with the exception that a lock
> > miter joint is now popular for preparing the mating surfaces. Am I
> > mistaken?
>
> My only concern was the steep taper, I've planned. I did not want to risk
> cutting through one side and exposing the joints.
For some reason, I didn't see that part of your post until a second or
two after I hit "send"; then I wondered if I was on the right track.
I guess it might depend on your definition of steep. :-) Good luck
and please let us know how it works out.
Cheers,
Mike
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:46:26 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >you won't find 12/4 stock in that wood.
>
> I already have 3" oak - both flat and quartered. There's no problem
> in producing the stuff, although it does command top dollar,
> especially the QS.
White oak? I have never seen, or even heard of, there being 12/4 quartersawn
white oak anywhere in this part of the world, whatsoever.
It is just something you will not find for sale at any price. Lumber dealers
will tell you it is because they can't dry it at that thickness with any
degree of sucess. Granted, I've never tried to dry it myself, but that is
the story I've heard for the past 40 years or longer as to why you don't see
it for sale.
> For squares, I can get sizes up to 3"x4" off the shelf and not pay too
> much for it (3x4 is about twice the cube price I pay for 1" boards).
> If I can cope with it still being rather green, I can have 12" square
> and bigger from the timber framing guy, and it's even cheaper
> (although if I'm buying by the truckload, I should hope so too)
For a country without a lot of hardwood forest left, you do have some
beautiful wood available. AAMOF, from what I've seen, the mother lode of
seasoned QS white oak is still in the UK ... in furniture, churches,
museums, on walls, as wainscotting, ad infinitum. Besides the ubiquitous
"mahogany" of various species, you guys must have traded in it extensively
during colonial days.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
In article <[email protected]>,
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
Have you looked at Talarico Hardwoods? He specializes in old growth
quartered Oak. Shows 16/4 on the site.
http://www.talaricohardwoods.com/index.html
--
Regards,
JP
"The measure of a man is what he will do
knowing he will get nothing in return"
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:00:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
What timber ? Are you chasing quartersawn figure ?
Laminate them. A good glue line should be invisible.
Laminate them. Do it symmetrically and reed either down the glue line,
or on either side of it.
Build the leg out of four sides and a lock mitre joint. This is how
L&JG Stickley used to do it to put quaertersawn on all four sides. It
_ought_ to work on a taper too, if you shim the stock as it goes
through the moulder -- I'd run a test piece first.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:00:30 GMT, "patrick conroy"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep taper
>over their 35" length.
>
>I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
>Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something else?
>I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue together
>4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going to
>be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
>What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
>find it?
>Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
>issue of FWW. <sigh>
>
each leg 4 pieces, mitered at the corners.
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I thought this was standard practice, with the exception that a lock
> miter joint is now popular for preparing the mating surfaces. Am I
> mistaken?
My only concern was the steep taper, I've planned. I did not want to risk
cutting through one side and exposing the joints.
"Alan Bierbaum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> If you can give a little on the size; Austin Hardwoods does stock some
> 10/4
> (or did).
10/4 would be fine. I'd go back to 2". I was just there @ Austin and didn't
see anything. In fact, almost everythign was 4/4. Maybe I'm not looking in
the right warehouse???
I stopped at Centennial and they had good prices on 8/4.
Paxton had some 12/4 Cherry today but the selection was pretty limited at it
was $11/bf...
Take a look here. It may be cheaper to buy the legs already made than to
buy the wood.
http://www.tablelegs.com/hepplewhite.htmhttp://www.tablelegs.com/hepplewhite.htm
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My next "design" calls for square legs 2 1/2" with a steeeeeeeeeeeeep
> taper
> over their 35" length.
>
> I'll be dipped in doo-doo if I can find 12/4 *anything* here in Denver.
>
>
> Does anyone have a tip/tiplet for making these legs out of a something
> else?
> I'm crappy @ veneering, so I'm unlikely to go there... When I glue
> together
> 4/4 stock or 8/4 stock the seam is very visible - and this table is going
> to
> be in a prominent location, so I'm not thrilled about that either...
>
> What do you guys do when you need something that works like 12/4 but can't
> find it?
> Or maybe I should just turn off the shop lights and go in to read the new
> issue of FWW. <sigh>
>
>