rm

22/02/2004 4:02 PM

newbie help (books & tools)

hello,

looking to get into some woodworking to save some money around the
house. here are some of the projects i'd like to work on:

built-in bookshelves for a room where we want to turn into a full
library, so all walls will have floor to ceiling bookshelves and a
large window seat for the window facing the back.

closet organizer. in the fashion of california closet organizers.

pergola, trellises, etc for our garden.

screened in room for underneath our deck.

in terms of books. here's what's on my list so far:

Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking 1&2
Measure Twice Cut Once by Jim Tolpin
Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets by Jim Tolpin, James Toplin
Mastering Woodworking Machines (Fine Woodworking Book) by Mark
Duginske, Andrew Schultz (Editor)

would appreciate a good book on cabinet making and building
structures.

in terms of machines?

am looking at the grizzly contractor saw

beyond on that, what type of machines should i be looking into? i'd
imagine a router or shaper? bandsaw, drill press? does cabinetry work
req a planer and/or jointer?

thanks.


This topic has 7 replies

rm

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

24/02/2004 8:52 AM

"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> matt wrote:
>
> > built-in bookshelves for a room where we want to turn into a full
> > library, so all walls will have floor to ceiling bookshelves and a
> > large window seat for the window facing the back.
>
> Possible ideas:
> http://plamann.com/sys-tmpl/bedroomwallunit/
> http://plamann.com/sys-tmpl/booth/
>

great site. any others? i particularly like the phase shots. so
many little questions to ask. are there general dimensions for things
like depth of bookcase, width per shelf, etc.

per his site:

How do you assemble some of the small intricate moldings on your
projects? It doesn't look like you use any nails.

I never use nails on a project. I have done an entire staircase
without any nails showing. I glue everything. Most moldings are
attached simply by glueing into place. It is not necessary to even
clamp the item. I find that by applying some glue and pressing the
piece into place, it will hold. Plus you get rid of the risk of
denting the wood with a clamp. If you need some pressure, use some
masking tape to add some pull.

no nails? is this possible? even for stairs and such that will
endure great loads?

rm

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

27/02/2004 3:32 AM

[email protected] (Conan the Librarian) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (matt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > looking to get into some woodworking to save some money around the
> > house.
>
> Outstanding idea. That's how I started. You will save some money
> on individual projects. Then your next goal will be to break even on
> your initial investment. Of course you will always be running across
> other tools that you "need" for any particular project. And then you
> will start buying tools just because they look cool. You might even
> get a "jones" for a particular tool like jack planes (hi, Paddy), and
> not be able to walk past them without pulling out your wallet.
>
> After that you will start buying extra lumber just because you got a
> "good deal" on it, or you know you'll need it for a "future project",
> or it was so pretty that you couldn't pass it up. Then you'll need to
> move into a bigger house to hold all your completed projects, and
> you'll need a bigger garage, because you have outgrown the space in
> your current one.
>
> So you definitely should get into woodworking to save money.
> Heaven knows I've saved tens or even hundreds of dollars since I got
> into it.

LOL. point taken. however the 2 independent 30K+ price tag i was
quoted on building the library alone had me calculating how many tools
and supplies i could be buying before i hit 30K.


>
> Taunton/Fine Woodworking has a set called _The Complete Illustrated
> Guides to Woodworking_, but it's a bit pricey at $120 for three
> volumes. (But hey, remember all the money you're saving on
> furniture.) You might want to just check out the volume _Furniture &
> Cabinet Construction_ by Andy Rae. It's not really my cup of tea (I
> do some furniture projects, but more smaller stuff), but I got a
> chance to read through it, and it's a very nice book. Detailed, clear
> and well-illustrated. Check out their website for more info on it:
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/index.asp
>

picked that up for $80 on amazon recently on another recommendation.
maybe you're just shopping at the wrong places for your supplies
<grin>

thanks for laughs

cC

[email protected] (Conan the Librarian)

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

26/02/2004 6:59 AM

[email protected] (matt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> looking to get into some woodworking to save some money around the
> house.

Outstanding idea. That's how I started. You will save some money
on individual projects. Then your next goal will be to break even on
your initial investment. Of course you will always be running across
other tools that you "need" for any particular project. And then you
will start buying tools just because they look cool. You might even
get a "jones" for a particular tool like jack planes (hi, Paddy), and
not be able to walk past them without pulling out your wallet.

After that you will start buying extra lumber just because you got a
"good deal" on it, or you know you'll need it for a "future project",
or it was so pretty that you couldn't pass it up. Then you'll need to
move into a bigger house to hold all your completed projects, and
you'll need a bigger garage, because you have outgrown the space in
your current one.

So you definitely should get into woodworking to save money.
Heaven knows I've saved tens or even hundreds of dollars since I got
into it.

> here are some of the projects i'd like to work on:
>
> built-in bookshelves for a room where we want to turn into a full
> library, so all walls will have floor to ceiling bookshelves and a
> large window seat for the window facing the back.
>
> closet organizer. in the fashion of california closet organizers.
>
> pergola, trellises, etc for our garden.
>
> screened in room for underneath our deck.
>
> in terms of books. here's what's on my list so far:
>
> Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking 1&2
> Measure Twice Cut Once by Jim Tolpin
> Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets by Jim Tolpin, James Toplin
> Mastering Woodworking Machines (Fine Woodworking Book) by Mark
> Duginske, Andrew Schultz (Editor)
>
> would appreciate a good book on cabinet making and building
> structures.

Taunton/Fine Woodworking has a set called _The Complete Illustrated
Guides to Woodworking_, but it's a bit pricey at $120 for three
volumes. (But hey, remember all the money you're saving on
furniture.) You might want to just check out the volume _Furniture &
Cabinet Construction_ by Andy Rae. It's not really my cup of tea (I
do some furniture projects, but more smaller stuff), but I got a
chance to read through it, and it's a very nice book. Detailed, clear
and well-illustrated. Check out their website for more info on it:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/index.asp

> [snip of machines]

Sorry I can't help you with those. I can't afford any since I
saved all that money buying handplanes.


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) Anyone want to hear how I'm saving money on
groceries since I took up fly-fishing?

cC

[email protected] (Conan the Librarian)

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

01/03/2004 6:01 AM

[email protected] (matt) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> [snip of my warning about "saving money by taking up woodworking"]
>
> LOL. point taken. however the 2 independent 30K+ price tag i was
> quoted on building the library alone had me calculating how many tools
> and supplies i could be buying before i hit 30K.

Yep, you've got 30K quotes, so that is the amount you are now
permitted to spend on tools and you'll BREAK EVEN!!

You've already got the hang of it. :-)

> [_Furniture & Cabinet Construction_ by Andy Rae]
>
> picked that up for $80 on amazon recently on another recommendation.
> maybe you're just shopping at the wrong places for your supplies
> <grin>

Heh. Don't worry, Amazon sees its share of my business.

It's a fine book, no?

> thanks for laughs

You're welcome. Glad you took it as it was intended.


Chuck Vance

MG

"Mike G"

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

23/02/2004 10:33 AM

> beyond on that, what type of machines should i be looking into? i'd
> imagine a router or shaper? bandsaw, drill press? does cabinetry work
> req a planer and/or jointer?
>

Hello Matt

It is gratifying to find a newbie who understands the worth of reference
material.

Some further suggestions would be
Cabinetmaking Procedures for the small shop by Kevin Fristad and John Ward.

Woodworking Wisdom by Nick Engler

The Woodworking Hand Book by Tom Begnal

The Woodworkers Visual Handbook by Jon Arno

And finally, sort of a basic course in building things

The Complete Guide to Woodworking by Chris Simpson

As for tools.

Is a planer and/or jointer required. Yes and no. Yes. tools that perform
those functions are necessary and a powered 6" jointer and bench top planer
make it a painless process but there are jigs and alternate tools that do
the job. Hand plane comes immediately to mind.

Router, shaper, drill press, band saw? Probably, almost certainly,
eventually, but, not necessarily immediately.

So many things depend on variables such as what you are building right now,
where you end up going in woodworking, present budget, and your source for
stock, that probably the best advice is to get it when you need it. Hell,
you've not even touched on a hundred and one other things a woodshop needs.
Good measuring tools, sharpening equipment, hand held power tools. hand
powered hand tools, etc.

For instance, and looking at the planer/jointer question. You would use
those tools heavily if you were to by rough cut stock and accurately mill it
to your own specifications. The stock is cheaper and you usually do a better
job then what you can buy. However, on the flip side, it takes a fair amount
of board feet milled to get a pay back from purchasing those tools and you
can have the work done for you at many wood suppliers and or buy it off the
shelf at Lowes or Home Depot. Not only that but, in addition, the process of
milling rough stock to finished quality is time consuming and boring and
fine tuning the stock can be done with easily hand tools and or a few
appropriate jigs.

Another example would be the question of a bandsaw. A good tool and very
versatile but, unless you are resawing stock, there isn't much it does that
can't be done with a saber saw, coping saw, appropriate jigs, etc. Even
resawing, to some extent, can be accomplished on a table saw.

Read, start building small projects and buy you tools when you need them.
Before you do buy make sure you know what the alternatives are, buy quality
commensurate with how much you think you will be using the shop in the
future, and be absolutely sure you know just what the tool does, why you
need it, and understand fully how to use it as far as reading up on it will
take you.

Good luck
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"

MJ

"Mark Jerde"

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

26/02/2004 1:36 AM

matt wrote:

> no nails? is this possible? even for stairs and such that will
> endure great loads?

Glue some scrap together, let it dry, and convince yourself that the wood
(or hardboard or whatever) breaks before the glue joint does.

Keep some unbroken samples around the shop. When a visiting friend or
relative asks the same question, cut them a slice and ask them to break the
glue joint, not the wood (or whatever). Very effective.

-- Mark

MJ

"Mark Jerde"

in reply to [email protected] (matt) on 22/02/2004 4:02 PM

23/02/2004 4:02 PM

matt wrote:

> built-in bookshelves for a room where we want to turn into a full
> library, so all walls will have floor to ceiling bookshelves and a
> large window seat for the window facing the back.

Possible ideas:
http://plamann.com/sys-tmpl/bedroomwallunit/
http://plamann.com/sys-tmpl/booth/

> in terms of books. here's what's on my list so far:

Be sure to check your public library too. I have Duginske's "The Art of the
Band Saw" and Mehler's "The Table Saw Book" checked out.

> am looking at the grizzly contractor saw

Love my G1022, but it's been discontinued.

> beyond on that, what type of machines should i be looking into?

Everything you can afford and have space for. <g> Watch for sales on
clamps, and I'm satisfied with the Pittsburg brand bar clamps from Harbor
Freight.

A Kreg pocket hole jig is good.

> i'd imagine a router or shaper?

I have both a DeWalt and a PC router. I wish it were two of the same model.
Suppose I wanted to cut a number of dovetail or t-slots. If both routers
were the same I could but the 1/4" bit in one and the dovetail / t-slot in
the other, set the jig fence, cut the 1/4" slot, switch routers, and cut the
dovetail / t-slot. As it is now I have to monkey with the jig or switch
bits in the same router.

I know it's a religious argument, but I like my plunge router in my router
table. ;-)

Maybe santa will bring me two more DeWalt 621 routers if I'm really good
this year. <g>

-- Mark


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