Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
things than anything else.
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Learn to read, dweeb. The comments were made in reaction to a
> discussion about top posting.
I understand you much better now.
Tom Watson wrote:
> This newsgroup only exists because we are not in the shop.
I know that's most of the time I spend here. Simply do a Google search
for my address and you can figure out when my shop's working. If it's
not (or I'm not), I'm in here. If it works and I basically know what
I'm doing, most of my woodworking-Jones time is spent in the shop.
Unfortunately I had knee surgery recently _and_ my shop is still full of
boxes from my move, so I'm hanging out in here because all I want to do
right now is woodwork and this is the closest I can get without being
able to stand up on my own.
Hopefully I'll have everything running not long into the new year and
it'll be at least another two years before I'm here on a regular basis,
again. :)
-BAT
Brett Thomas responds:
>
>I know that's most of the time I spend here. Simply do a Google search
>for my address and you can figure out when my shop's working. If it's
>not (or I'm not), I'm in here. If it works and I basically know what
>I'm doing, most of my woodworking-Jones time is spent in the shop.
>
>Unfortunately I had knee surgery recently _and_ my shop is still full of
>boxes from my move, so I'm hanging out in here because all I want to do
>right now is woodwork and this is the closest I can get without being
>able to stand up on my own.
Ain't it fun. Three times, one left, two right, just had lubricant (Hyagel?)
injections in both sides (series of 6 fun shots, 3 per knee, one per week).
Eventual left knee replacement, but the surgeon wants me to peel off pounds, in
the meantime telling me that the lubricant can be repeated every 6 months if
needed. It seems to work well for me--he also tells me it only works for half
the people who get it. Knees are much better. Not young enough for running, but
much better. So there's less pain in your future, too, I'd guess.
Good luck with the recovery.
Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:47:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Dad had his replaced a little over 8 years ago -- he had gotten to where
>he couldn't climb into and out of a car without severe pain and couldn't
>walk long distances without having to sit down for a while. The
>replacements totally gave him his life and productivity back and have
>lasted well. Unfortunately, his hips are giving him problems now -- they
>are trying to stave off replacements for a while.
Interesting that you mention that...
Years ago, when she was about 75, my mom had both knees replaced, and
had a lot of hip pain afterwards...
the specialist said that it was a combination of age, pain that she
had before but was kind of covered by the knee pain, and stress on the
hip sockets from her knee problems over the years..
I think as the process of knee replacement gets more common and folks
have it done earlier, as in before the knee tweaks other joints, these
problems will be less frequent...
it IS a great thing, though, that we can replace joints now..
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
> replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
> club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
> the metal parts ;-)
I was talking with a friend about this the other day - when they were
writing science fiction thirty years ago, they of course figured that
the first "bionic man" would be some big-deal major replacement thing.
What happens of course, is instead that, piece by piece, Grandpa ends up
being 25% non-organic by mass as parts wear out...
-BAT
On 01 Dec 2004 10:19:00 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Brett Thomas responds:
>
>>
>>I know that's most of the time I spend here. Simply do a Google search
>>for my address and you can figure out when my shop's working. If it's
>>not (or I'm not), I'm in here. If it works and I basically know what
>>I'm doing, most of my woodworking-Jones time is spent in the shop.
>>
>>Unfortunately I had knee surgery recently _and_ my shop is still full of
>>boxes from my move, so I'm hanging out in here because all I want to do
>>right now is woodwork and this is the closest I can get without being
>>able to stand up on my own.
>
>Ain't it fun. Three times, one left, two right, just had lubricant (Hyagel?)
>injections in both sides (series of 6 fun shots, 3 per knee, one per week).
>Eventual left knee replacement, but the surgeon wants me to peel off pounds, in
>the meantime telling me that the lubricant can be repeated every 6 months if
>needed. It seems to work well for me--he also tells me it only works for half
>the people who get it. Knees are much better. Not young enough for running, but
>much better. So there's less pain in your future, too, I'd guess.
>
>Good luck with the recovery.
>
>Charlie Self
Dad had his replaced a little over 8 years ago -- he had gotten to where
he couldn't climb into and out of a car without severe pain and couldn't
walk long distances without having to sit down for a while. The
replacements totally gave him his life and productivity back and have
lasted well. Unfortunately, his hips are giving him problems now -- they
are trying to stave off replacements for a while.
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:13:58 +0000, mac davis wrote:
> Interesting that you mention that...
> Years ago, when she was about 75, my mom had both knees replaced, and had
> a lot of hip pain afterwards...
> the specialist said that it was a combination of age, pain that she had
> before but was kind of covered by the knee pain, and stress on the hip
> sockets from her knee problems over the years.. I think as the process of
> knee replacement gets more common and folks have it done earlier, as in
> before the knee tweaks other joints, these problems will be less
> frequent...
> it IS a great thing, though, that we can replace joints now..
I have a buddy who had a hip replacement about 6 years ago, then both
knees about 3 years ago and finally the other hip this year. He also has
a metal rod in one arm from almost ripping of the arm. Like (I
think) Charlie Self, all this damage was the result of riding a crotch
rocket over the hills and through the woods.
He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
the metal parts ;-)
-Doug
Doug Winterburn responds:
> have a buddy who had a hip replacement about 6 years ago, then both
>knees about 3 years ago and finally the other hip this year. He also has
>a metal rod in one arm from almost ripping of the arm. Like (I
>think) Charlie Self, all this damage was the result of riding a crotch
>rocket over the hills and through the woods.
>
>He claims to now be pain free. The Doc wants him to consider a shoulder
>replacement, but he says no as there is no guarantee of swinging a golf
>club after that. He claims it's getting very difficult to swim with all
>the metal parts ;-)
Heh. Yeah, enduro riding can be rough on the clumsy.
I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have been
improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.
You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a pain
level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not being
a teenager any more.
I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is probably
sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful those
times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.
Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken
On 02 Dec 2004 20:09:25 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
<snip>
>I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have been
>improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.
>
>You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a pain
>level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not being
>a teenager any more.
>
>I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is probably
>sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful those
>times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.
>
>Charlie Self
that's great news!!!!
Having had a back problem for about 20 years, I can honestly say that
I "feel your pain" and know exactly what you mean about those rare
pain-free times...
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> Heh. Yeah, enduro riding can be rough on the clumsy.
>
> I finished my knee lube injections (Hyagel?) about a week ago. Knees have
been
> improving since, and are almost totally pain free now.
>
> You don't know what that means until you've spent most of a decade with a
pain
> level ranging from 5 to about 9 along with all the other fun signs of not
being
> a teenager any more.
>
> I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
probably
> sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful
those
> times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.
Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That &
Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left, post
trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
Norman D. Crow asks:
>>
>> I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
>probably
>> sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be wonderful
>those
>> times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.
>
>Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That &
>Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left, post
>trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
>stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?
Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that works
for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine up. I
had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days of
parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that too
much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.
Cortisone did absolutely nothing for me except create more pain in other areas.
Not too handy.
I've got a tape on a better known brand somewhere upstairs--unless it got
tossed in the pre-holiday cleaning...the tape's gone but the name came back:
SynVisc. According to my doctor, they are the same thing, or close enough.
A series of 3 injections in each knee, at the kneecap...to be honest, I didn't
watch to see exactly where each went in, but he injects a lump that causes more
ache--well, really, pain--than does the shot. That leaves fairly quickly, and I
drove the 50 miles home (auto tranny, though: left my truck and used the car).
Come back in a week and get #2, etc. I started getting light relief after #1 in
the left knee. The right knee is now almost totally pain free. The left knee,
with a 30 year old screw holding the kneecap from slipping, plus a potful of
arthritic build-up, is stiff, but almost pain free.
It is worth doing a google check and asking your doctor about SynVisc anyway.
I'm told the cost is in the neighborhood of $350 per knee but that may be out
of date.
AFAIK, there are NO side effects, nothing at all, particularly compared to a
mix of cortisone and Vicodin.
I'm told it may last 2 years, so it's not really permanent. But I'm also told
that the shots can be repeated at 6 month intervals if needed.
Good luck.
Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:18:02 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Not as much as I'd like to! What shop time I do get is late in the day,
>after they've pretty much worn off. If I've been on my feet too much and in
>pain, I usually just take more drugs & go to bed. When I am in the shop, I
>have a couple stools that I keep handy and do as much as possible sitting
>down.
have you tried a rolling chair or stool?
I use on my "can't bend" days, and as long as I keep cords and scrap
off the floor, it works pretty good..
I scrounged up an old "secretaries chair"... swivel office chair with
height adjustment and good back support but no arms..
My problem is lower back, not knees, but I'm sure that the swivel
instead of twisting your body would help.. anything that gets me more
time in the shop works!!
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Norman D. Crow asks:
>
> >>
> >> I walk up the stairs from my office and it doesn't hurt! My wife is
> >probably
> >> sick of my saying that, but it is remarkable enough to me to be
wonderful
> >those
> >> times I notice--and I notice ever time I walk up the stairs.
> >
> >Tell us more, Charlie. I get cortisone in both knees every 6 weeks. That
&
> >Vicodin keeps me functioning somewhat. Left knee has NO cartilage left,
post
> >trauma from broken knee joint bone in '74, right knee from taking all the
> >stress. Is what you've had one of the multiple shot "permanent" fixes?
>
> Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
works
> for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine
up. I
> had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days
of
> parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
too
> much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.
Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.
I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
late afternoon.
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
Norman Crow responds:
>> Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
>works
>> for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine
>up. I
>> had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these days
>of
>> parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
>too
>> much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.
>
>Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
>gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.
>
>I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
>the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
>late afternoon.
Yes. I used to take a 20 day prescrip in 10 days, then do without for 10 days.
Kept me from becoming addicted, of course, but sometimes that 10 days without
was more than uncomfortable.
Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Norman Crow responds:
> >> Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that
> >works
> >> for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set
mine
> >up. I
> >> had had cortisone, adn the VA is getting really, really leery these
days
> >of
> >> parceling out Vicodin, though I sometimes think I had loaded up on that
> >too
> >> much when I interview for, and accepted, that job in Parkersburg.
> >
> >Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
> >gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.
> >
> >I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me
for
> >the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
> >late afternoon.
>
> Yes. I used to take a 20 day prescrip in 10 days, then do without for 10
days.
> Kept me from becoming addicted, of course, but sometimes that 10 days
without
> was more than uncomfortable.
Talk about feelin' stupid . . My scrip says "1 or 2 every 4-6hr. as needed"
on a scrip of 80 pills with 3 refills. I stretched it out to 25
days(thinking I had to make them last a month) and asked pharmacy if they
could refill it 5 days early, and they said "Sure, this 80 pills is only a
10 day prescription". AAaaaaarrrrgh! Still don't take them anywhere near
that heavy, but do get it refilled every 12-13 days so I don't let the scrip
"time out".
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
Norman Crow responds:
>
>Talk about feelin' stupid . . My scrip says "1 or 2 every 4-6hr. as needed"
>on a scrip of 80 pills with 3 refills. I stretched it out to 25
>days(thinking I had to make them last a month) and asked pharmacy if they
>could refill it 5 days early, and they said "Sure, this 80 pills is only a
>10 day prescription". AAaaaaarrrrgh! Still don't take them anywhere near
>that heavy, but do get it refilled every 12-13 days so I don't let the scrip
>"time out"
And that stuff is expensive, I'm told. I think my 20 day was 120, but might
have been 160. Lotsa pills, anyway.
VA cost was remarkable, BB (before Bush). A month's supply was 2 bucks.
Charlie Self
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)
"Larry Jaques" <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:58:53 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
> <[email protected]> spake the words:
>
> >Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
> >gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.
>
> As Nike said "Just Do It!", Nahmie. We'll still love a skinnier you.
> ;)
>
>
> >I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me
for
> >the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
> >late afternoon.
>
> Ugh! Drugs. You're not doing any shop work any more, are you?
Not as much as I'd like to! What shop time I do get is late in the day,
after they've pretty much worn off. If I've been on my feet too much and in
pain, I usually just take more drugs & go to bed. When I am in the shop, I
have a couple stools that I keep handy and do as much as possible sitting
down.
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
Charlie Self wrote:
> Hyagel or Hyagen or something close. An injectable joint lubricant that works
> for maybe 50% of those who get, according to the VA surgeon who set mine up.
Google says brand name Hyalgan, generic Hyaluronic acid. News story:
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/health/healthwatch/health_072603_knee.html
Drug Encyclopedia Link:
http://members.kaiserpermanente.org/kpweb/drugency/detailpage.do?bodyContainer=/htmlapp/feature/026drugency/content/203531b.html
Was talking to a relative of SWMBO over Thanksgiving who had this done.
Those whom it helps, really love it (it helped him). But if it
doesn't help you, it apparently does nothing. Glad you found something
that helps, Charlie - 5 - 9 pain hasta really put a damper on your sunny
disposition. And man I hate being on Vicodin - fuzzy all the time.
-BAT
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:58:53 -0500, "Norman D. Crow"
<[email protected]> spake the words:
>Thanks Charlie. I'll look into it. Alternative right now is going for
>gastric bypass, get rid of about 150lb., then go for new knees.
As Nike said "Just Do It!", Nahmie. We'll still love a skinnier you.
;)
>I try real hard to keep the Vicodin down. 2 in the AM usually keeps me for
>the day unless I'm "pushing" too hard, then I may have to take 2 more in
>late afternoon.
Ugh! Drugs. You're not doing any shop work any more, are you?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Most of the people who were worth a damn on this newsgroup have moved
> on.
>
> It's a damned shame to say it but it's true.
>
> There is the making and only the making - everything else is bullshit.
>
> When I see people argue the fine points of newsgroup etiquette, it
> makes me want to puke.
Which explains why you only post about making, right Tom?
You post as much off topic bullsh*t as anyone else, Sirrah. DAGS.
And ya know what? It doesn't bother me one whit. I enjoy your posts.
There's an amazing number of *on-topic* posts here. Hundreds a day.
HUNDREDS! The off-topic shit I don't want to read is so simple to
filter it doesn't bear mentioning. And as you and many others pointed
out during the rec.woodworking.all-ages episode, you like SOME of the
off-topic shit. So who made you the arbiter of off-topic shit, Tom?
Off-topic shit is equal, but some off-topic shit is more equal than
others? GMAB.
Why some people (including you) get bent out of shape about the minimal
noise in an amazingly active newsgroup that's 90-95% signal makes me
shake my head...
If you want a nice quiet newsgroup, alt.woodworking is only seeing 3 -5
posts daily. Lots of opportunity. If you want your own community, it's
easy enough to form one.
Personally, I'd rather you learned how to filter and ignore, and stuck
around, but dropped the sanctimony.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:12:08 GMT, Chris Melanson <[email protected]> wrote:
> You should of been thinking about the tool you were using and leave the
> deep thoughts for when the tools are off. Prime example of how injuries
> happen.
Eh, I think you're being over-dramatic. And I _know_ you're top-posting.
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:19:20 -0800, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
> Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> And I _know_ you're top-posting.
No, pointing out that it screws up normal communication style. You
don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:30:07 -0700, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2004 15:28:17 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>No, pointing out that it screws up normal communication style. You
>>don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
> ya know, dave...
> you're kind of like a busted clock. right twice a day, every day, but
> totally useless.
So, killfile me, and get on with life.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:10:01 GMT, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2004 15:28:17 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>No, pointing out that it screws up normal communication style.
>
> Actually it is not 'normal' communication style. It is a convention
> which has been adopted for newgroups.
Right, within the context of Usenet, it's the normal communication
style.
>> You
>>don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
>
> You don't repeat everything that's been said in a conversation before
> you add your bit, do you? If you're writing a reply to a letter you
> don't quote the whole letter first, do you?
Nope. It seems that people not trimming as appropriate is the problem.
I've never seen a top-poster do anything but put their answer at the
top and leave the rest of it in place.
> Why should everyone wade
> through what's already been said in the topic before getting to the
> most recent addition. You'll notice that bottom posting is far less
> common in e-mail.
Yes, and yes, in that order.
> Fundamentally the convention of bottom posting is a relic of the
> early, academic, days of the Internet when there was a wide
> variability in how long it took for a message to be received and they
> often arrived out of order.
As opposed to Usenet, where message order and delivery is guaranteed?
Um....
> Since bottom posting is a convention, it makes good sense to follow it
> -- if you're not going to carefully trim and interpost your comments.
It makes sense to answer points after the points being answered, so the
person answering the response can see what the context is.
> But it is about as outdated and maladaptive as a QWERTY keyboard on a
> computer.
I tried DVORAK for a while, but switched back when I got my first sysadmin
job, and had to type on 20 or 30 different terminals in a typical day.
(long time ago, before terminal servers existed). Too much switching.
Dave Hinz
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:28:37 -0800, Tim Douglass <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
> equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
> happens to be"
>
> Don't know who I'm quoting, but it was the best commentary I've ever
> read on the topic.
I'm thinking someone on comp.sys.mac.apps, for some reason.
Putting the important information above the drivel.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > And I _know_ you're top-posting.
> >
>
>
On 30 Nov 2004 15:28:17 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:19:20 -0800, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
>>
>> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> And I _know_ you're top-posting.
>
>No, pointing out that it screws up normal communication style.
Actually it is not 'normal' communication style. It is a convention
which has been adopted for newgroups.
> You
>don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
You don't repeat everything that's been said in a conversation before
you add your bit, do you? If you're writing a reply to a letter you
don't quote the whole letter first, do you? Why should everyone wade
through what's already been said in the topic before getting to the
most recent addition. You'll notice that bottom posting is far less
common in e-mail.
Fundamentally the convention of bottom posting is a relic of the
early, academic, days of the Internet when there was a wide
variability in how long it took for a message to be received and they
often arrived out of order.
Since bottom posting is a convention, it makes good sense to follow it
-- if you're not going to carefully trim and interpost your comments.
But it is about as outdated and maladaptive as a QWERTY keyboard on a
computer.
Thank you. I feel much better now.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> >which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> >for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> >wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> >lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> >for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> >the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> >really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> >nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> >things than anything else.
> >
> nope... and I don't think of the steer that my steak is made of,
> either...
> you get your head wrapped around stuff like that, you're going to be
> gluing styrofoam for a hobby because you don't want to hurt any more
> trees.. *g*
What about the poor doe-eyed dinosaurs that died and became the oil
the styrofoam was made out of?
But seriously,
I have heard a Native American (dugout) canoe maker say that he was
making a canoe to honor the tree and celebrate all the years it had
been part of the forest. He was using all his skill and art to make
something beautiful and useful from the tree's gift of its wood that
would be appreciated by his children and grandchildren.
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
>for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
>wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
>lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
>for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
>the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
>really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
>nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
>things than anything else.
>
nope... and I don't think of the steer that my steak is made of,
either...
you get your head wrapped around stuff like that, you're going to be
gluing styrofoam for a hobby because you don't want to hurt any more
trees.. *g*
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> things than anything else.
>
>
Thanks, now I'm going to look at my Delta TS and wonder if it used to be a
Ford, Datsun, Chevy or what, and if it had any memorial trips or famous
drivers/riders.
--
FMB
(only one B in FMB)
Cool Dude!
For the most part I agree with you. But... There are people who have no
experience, little money for tools, an undeveloped imagination or a fear of
some kind,(failure, getting hurt ridicule etc) who learn by the discussions
that go on here. I am an experienced wood cutter but I can ask other people
about tools or answer questions from amateurs who don't have a clue how to
get some of this info or even how to evaluate the info they get. Seeing it
discussed to death here gives them a well rounded picture of how many ways
there are to connect two pieces of wood, round an edge or buy a hammer.
While I empathize with your impatience, I have been thinking about how many
pro's took time away from there work to answer stupid questions from a
newbie.
Amateur, roughly translates to "for the love of"
I strive to be an amateur.
max
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:36:34 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:00:54 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "das glasperlenspiel"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom.
>>
>> Fun, huh?
>
>
> It would be more fun if I did not rue the cost of time involved for
> those who spend more of their lives in front of a CRT than a
> workbench.
>
> This newsgroup only exists because we are not in the shop.
>
> I come home from my job of telling other people what to build and how
> to build it, and I vent my frustration at not being able to simply
> build the stuff myself.
>
> Most of the people who were worth a damn on this newsgroup have moved
> on.
>
> It's a damned shame to say it but it's true.
>
> There is the making and only the making - everything else is bullshit.
>
> When I see people argue the fine points of newsgroup etiquette, it
> makes me want to puke.
>
>
> Grab a saw, sharpen it, cut some wood, plane it, make some joints,
> plane it all smooth - find a finish that works for your piece - give
> something to someone who means something to you.
>
> Amen.
>
>
> The last thing that this newsgroup should be about is about how to act
> on a newsgroup.
>
> There should be much more interesting fish to fry.
>
> There are more than a few posters who seem to me as though they have
> never worked a piece of wood in their lives - yet have worked wonders
> in their heads.
>
> I have no respect for that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Tom.
>
> "People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
>
> Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
Alright - I'm warning you... that was a full cup of coffee...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > And I _know_ you're top-posting.
> >
>
>
Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And I _know_ you're top-posting.
>
I could not agree with you more on this Tom. If more people would just
concentrate on woodworking and not on all the BS.This would be a far more
useful newsgroup.
I have pretty well stopped trying to help anyone here by answering
questions as it seems everyone just wants to be negative about any thing and
everything that is posted.I find my time better spent in other ways than
trying to help someone with a genuine question about woodworking and then to
have some half wit who has spent more time in front of there PC than in a
shop want to start an argument over something totally of topic.
I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way and in the end the
only people who lose are the poor souls who never get there question
answered because of all the BS. Maybe there should be a group called rec.
arguments or something like that for people who just want to be negative and
argumentative all the time.
Just my 2 cents worth
Chris Melanson
BLH Millwork LTD
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:20:43 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>
> >Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
> >the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
> >used bottom posting as the default.
>
> "Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
> equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
> happens to be"
>
Damnit! Stop that. You guys - this is s'pposed to be a serious group.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade.
Only once it crossed my mind. I was cutting some cherry that came from
Pennsylvania. I found some lead shot in it, well below the surface. It
most have been in there for at least five or ten years, maybe more. I
wondered if it was used as a backstop for target practice, or if some
pheasant was flushed from the brush or whatever.
I still have a piece of that cherry on the bench.
Ed
A few times.
I picked up some old maple a while ago. Made it into a crib for my little
one. While sawing it - I sawed thru a old lead bullet.
Got me wondering a bit on it. Where it came from - did it go thru anyone
before it hit the tree. Was it from the civil war?
Most likley some punk w/ a 22 a few years ago :)
It was pretty neat tho.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> things than anything else.
>
>
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:28:37 -0800, Tim Douglass <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:20:43 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
>>the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
>>used bottom posting as the default.
>
>"Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
>equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
>happens to be"
>
>Don't know who I'm quoting, but it was the best commentary I've ever
>read on the topic.
>
>Tim Douglass
>
>http://www.DouglassClan.com
A courtesy, "windex alert!" would have been appreciated. OK, now where
are the paper towels?
More evidence that you should always use a respirator and have good
ventilation when using lacquer! ;^)
BW
Actually, as a ute I used to get interesting day dreams coming from
all the smells that came out of the pine I was cutting at the
furniture factory job.
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> things than anything else.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:36:34 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:00:54 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"das glasperlenspiel"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tom.
>
>Fun, huh?
It would be more fun if I did not rue the cost of time involved for
those who spend more of their lives in front of a CRT than a
workbench.
This newsgroup only exists because we are not in the shop.
I come home from my job of telling other people what to build and how
to build it, and I vent my frustration at not being able to simply
build the stuff myself.
Most of the people who were worth a damn on this newsgroup have moved
on.
It's a damned shame to say it but it's true.
There is the making and only the making - everything else is bullshit.
When I see people argue the fine points of newsgroup etiquette, it
makes me want to puke.
Grab a saw, sharpen it, cut some wood, plane it, make some joints,
plane it all smooth - find a finish that works for your piece - give
something to someone who means something to you.
Amen.
The last thing that this newsgroup should be about is about how to act
on a newsgroup.
There should be much more interesting fish to fry.
There are more than a few posters who seem to me as though they have
never worked a piece of wood in their lives - yet have worked wonders
in their heads.
I have no respect for that.
Regards,
Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> things than anything else.
>
>
I made some picture frames for my kids from a pear tree I had to 'put
down'.
We had picnics under that tree. That tree fed thousands of birds the
sweetest pears, and oh, the millions of darting wasps it attracted....
stop me before I blubber....
Seriously, I do think it is healthy to stop and think sometimes.
Just do not stop and think where that water in your beer may have
been...okay?
Rob
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:26:09 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:20:52 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>>>which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
>>>for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
>>>wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
>>>lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
>>>for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
>>>the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
>>>really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
>>>nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
>>>things than anything else.
>>>
>>nope... and I don't think of the steer that my steak is made of,
>>either...
>
> I used to when growing up on the farm. It was the ones that got out all
>the time, usually when we were busy with something else, that graced our
>table so there was some poetic justice in eating them. ;-)
>
>>you get your head wrapped around stuff like that, you're going to be
>>gluing styrofoam for a hobby because you don't want to hurt any more
>>trees.. *g*
>
> Nah, I'm not headed toward tree-hugger status. Besides, I'd hate to
>reduce the supply of the endangered styrofoams.
>
I think the breed is "styro's" but I'm not sure..
[email protected] writes:
>On 30 Nov 2004 15:28:17 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>> You
>>don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
>
>You don't repeat everything that's been said in a conversation before
>you add your bit, do you?
Conversations happen real-time. There is no need to recap.
Usenet is far from real-time - it may be several days or weeks
between visits to a newsgroup. Many newsreaders make it hard
or timeconsuming to see prior (already read) posts. Many
news spools have retention times less than a week.
> If you're writing a reply to a letter you
>don't quote the whole letter first, do you?
A letter is a conversation between two people. A usenet
thread is a conversation between many people with some starting
with the thread and others entering mid-thread. Context
is imperitive.
>
Why should everyone wade
>through what's already been said in the topic before getting to the
>most recent addition. You'll notice that bottom posting is far less
>common in e-mail.
Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
used bottom posting as the default.
>
>Fundamentally the convention of bottom posting is a relic of the
>early, academic, days of the Internet when there was a wide
>variability in how long it took for a message to be received and they
>often arrived out of order.
The the words of the famous Col. Potter - Horsehockey.
>
>Since bottom posting is a convention, it makes good sense to follow it
>-- if you're not going to carefully trim and interpost your comments.
>But it is about as outdated and maladaptive as a QWERTY keyboard on a
>computer.
Your opinion is noted. It's wrong, but noted.
scott
On 30 Nov 2004 15:28:17 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:19:20 -0800, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Demonstrating your keen sense of direction?
>>
>> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> And I _know_ you're top-posting.
>
>No, pointing out that it screws up normal communication style. You
>don't talk upside-down, why write that way?
ya know, dave...
you're kind of like a busted clock. right twice a day, every day, but
totally useless.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:00:54 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"das glasperlenspiel"
>
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Tom.
Fun, huh?
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 22:35:03 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:
balderdash.
Learn to read, dweeb. The comments were made in reaction to a
discussion about top posting.
Regards,
Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:45:01 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>There should be a corallary to Godwin's Law for that tired old BS. What's
>"true" is that your own internal estimation of what constitutes "worth a
>damn" changes, along with your expectations ... everything else remains the
>same.
You need to get a grip, Swing. Saying it's bullshit doesn't make it
bullshit.
The Steady State Theory sucks.
Regards,
Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> Most of the people who were worth a damn on this newsgroup have moved
> on.
>
> It's a damned shame to say it but it's true.
There should be a corallary to Godwin's Law for that tired old BS. What's
"true" is that your own internal estimation of what constitutes "worth a
damn" changes, along with your expectations ... everything else remains the
same.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>which the wood you are working was once a part?
I don't have to wonder, I go and look at the photos I have of it, and
the photos of the site as it is now.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:12:08 GMT, "Chris Melanson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>BLH Millwork LTD
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
>> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
>> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
>> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
>> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
>> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
>> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
>> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
>> things than anything else.
>>
>>
>
> You should of been thinking about the tool you were using and leave the
>deep thoughts for when the tools are off. Prime example of how injuries
>happen.
>
... and what makes you think I wasn't? I can assure you, I am very aware
of the whirling bits of steel.
Amazing,some folks can turn anything into a lecture.
Sandman wrote:
> Seriously, I do think it is healthy to stop and think sometimes.
> Just do not stop and think where that water in your beer may have
> been...okay?
Apparently I'm not the only one to have thought about dinosaur piss... A
book I read in 4th grade (c 1967) said that every time you take a breath
you're breathing in 3 molecules of air that Leonardo da Vinci breathed. ;-)
Ponder that for awhile.
-- Mark
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:20:43 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
>Only because some idiot at Microsoft decided to place the cursor above
>the message in Outlook. EVERY SINGLE MAIL USER AGENT prior to outlook
>used bottom posting as the default.
"Top posting because that is where the cursor happens to be is the
equivalent of crapping your pants because that's where your asshole
happens to be"
Don't know who I'm quoting, but it was the best commentary I've ever
read on the topic.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:20:52 GMT, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>>which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
>>for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
>>wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
>>lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
>>for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
>>the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
>>really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
>>nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
>>things than anything else.
>>
>nope... and I don't think of the steer that my steak is made of,
>either...
I used to when growing up on the farm. It was the ones that got out all
the time, usually when we were busy with something else, that graced our
table so there was some poetic justice in eating them. ;-)
>you get your head wrapped around stuff like that, you're going to be
>gluing styrofoam for a hobby because you don't want to hurt any more
>trees.. *g*
Nah, I'm not headed toward tree-hugger status. Besides, I'd hate to
reduce the supply of the endangered styrofoams.
You should of been thinking about the tool you were using and leave the
deep thoughts for when the tools are off. Prime example of how injuries
happen.
Chris Melanson
BLH Millwork LTD
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
> which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some ash
> for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
> wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
> lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a tree-stand
> for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further into
> the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
> really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
> nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
> things than anything else.
>
>
Riiiiiiiiiight..... like the way they trained those beavers to be hats.
(From an OLD Johnny Carson routine).
"Charles Erskine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:45:37 -0700, Mark & Juanita
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Have any of you ever found yourself wondering about the tree of
>> >which the wood you are working was once a part? Whilst jointing some
>> >ash
>> >for the entertainment center drawers this afternoon, I found myself
>> >wondering where the tree had grown and what sorts of wildlife had once
>> >lived in its branches and under its shade. Had it once been a
>> >tree-stand
>> >for hunters, or had children or others once climbed it to see further
>> >into
>> >the forest? Had deer sheltered under it in a snowstorm or rain? Not
>> >really in a maudlin fashion, these musings were more of an inquisitive
>> >nature rather than anything negative. One of those more introspective
>> >things than anything else.
>> >
>> nope... and I don't think of the steer that my steak is made of,
>> either...
>> you get your head wrapped around stuff like that, you're going to be
>> gluing styrofoam for a hobby because you don't want to hurt any more
>> trees.. *g*
>
> What about the poor doe-eyed dinosaurs that died and became the oil
> the styrofoam was made out of?
>
> But seriously,
>
> I have heard a Native American (dugout) canoe maker say that he was
> making a canoe to honor the tree and celebrate all the years it had
> been part of the forest. He was using all his skill and art to make
> something beautiful and useful from the tree's gift of its wood that
> would be appreciated by his children and grandchildren.