McFeely's

In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>....
>> You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
>> 'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
>> number.
>
>Depends on _which_ tax id one is referring to...
>
As far as I'm concerned, it's a moot point. I opened an account at Grainger
with a business card. The only other information they asked for was how I
planned to pay for purchases (i.e. if I wanted to open a credit account).
Told them, Nope, I'll pay as I go, with cash or check. Took less than five
minutes.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>
>>> No business ID, no sale.
>>
>> "Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made on
>> your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>
>Not in the sales tax world.

But we're not talking about sales tax right here. We're talking about
Grainger's policy regarding who they will sell to, and who they won't. Their
policy is that they sell only to businesses; the fact is that their definition
of a "business" is lenient enough to include the sole proprietor working out
of his own home.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sep 13, 6:07 pm, "WoodButcher" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I had a phone call from McFeely's this morning and the caller ID
> showed as LAB SAFETY SUPP.

Good for Ray. Not good for us, or for "McFeely's" - you can bet on
that.
JP

> If this means I'll be able to buy McFeely screws by walking into the Grainger
> store that's less than ten minutes from home *and* open Saturdays, it sounds
> good to me.


That's exactly what I was thinking - I haven't used McF's screws, but
I'd be much more likely to try them if I could pick up a small
quantity locally without paying shipping.
Andy

> Define "small quantity." :-)
>
> You're not likely to find them at Grainger's in any quantity less than a box
> of a hundred. To some, that *is* a small quantity; to others, it's not.

Yes, a box of 100 would be great. Even one of their variety packs,
100 each of a few different sizes, would be fine. I realize that
trying to buy 10 screws or something would be just about
impossible... I was just hoping for home handyman quantities, not
commercial cabinetmaker quantities. Any educated guesses whether
Grainger will sell McF's screws through their retail stores? Or how
separate do they tend to keep the companies they acquire?
Thanks,
Andy

On Sep 14, 8:12 am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Bill Waller wrote:
>
> >> I did a little more digging.
>
> >>http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely
>
> > Really hope this doesn't foretell a decline in quality and/or service.
> >Can only wait and see.
>
> I would expect the opposite, actually. Grainger's a class act. Not to
> imply that McFeely's wasn't, of course. But Grainger is a very professional
> operation. IME their customer service and product quality are uniformly
> excellent.

I have heard good things about Grainger too. I should have kept my
negativity to myself, especially in light of the fact I didn't even
read the press release. Believe it or not, sometimes I'm just talking
out my ass.

Long live McFeely's!!

JP

On Sep 13, 4:03 pm, Bill Waller <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> It looks like they sold out or got sucked up.
>

Mmmmmmm. We are all making a lot of assumptions here.
McFeely has developed an asset worth a lot of money.
Maybe it was time to move on.
I just hope that Granger can keep that "AwChucks' image alive, an
image I found so endearing and was willing to pay extra for.
That one-on-one relationship is so damned rare these days. Will
Granger say: "I'll get on it, Rob, btw, how is your sister?"
Not bloody likely.
The whole square drive profit centre will get a good thinning, and
they'll keep those few things which will make them money. Guys like
McFeely also had parts and pieces, not as a profit centre, but as a
complement to a profit centre. Granger's MBA's are not likely to give
a damn about that.
McFeely was a Festool dealer as well....that makes for an interesting
marriage.

My gut-feeling tells me that McFeely did all right, WE are not likely
to benefit. Granger will likely rape the brand.
Maybe we'll get square-drive screws made in China, which may or may
not fit our drivers.

</cynicism>

r

Hey folks,

I'm Ron Pegram. I've been with McFeely's since 1997. During that time,
I worked closely with Jim Ray, beginning as the Customer Service
Manager and being promoted to the position of General Manager over
time. When LSS acquired McFeely's, I expressed a desire to continue on
with the company. Quite frankly, I have a lot of emotional investment
in the brand, having spent so much of my life trying to grow it. To my
delight, the folks at LSS were just as interested in continuing to do
the things that have made McFeely's successful as I am and I am now
the Brand Manager for McFeely's in our new offices in Madison, WI.

Within the LSS family of brands, there's a real attempt to keep brands
separate so that each unit can do the things its customers demand. So,
yes we have been acquired by a much larger company but no, we're not
being forced to walk away from value-added services like consumer-
friendly packaged quantities of screws. If anything, the additional
resources we have should let us pursue services that make us more
convenient for our customers. Trust me, LSS values what makes these
brands work.

I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
person with whom to identify when you're discussing McFeely's. If
something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
reached at any one of the following contacts:

[email protected]
1-800-443-7937 (ask for extension 3317)
1-608-662-3317 (toll number)

Generally, I work between 8AM - 6PM CST. My job in the years to come
is to guarantee that McFeely's doesn't change unless it's for the
better. I expect you to hold my feet to the fire on that.

Respectfully yours,

Ron Pegram, MBA (yes, I'm one of those dreaded MBA's but I am also one
of the good guys)

Everyone seems to be singing the praises of Grainger, and I'm a bit
curious as to people's dealings with them.

Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.

Do you find most of the Grainger stores sell to walk-ins? No
mandatory minimum charges? How about by mail?

John Martin

On Sep 17, 9:57 am, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey folks,
>
> > I'm Ron Pegram. I've been with McFeely's since 1997. During that time,
> > I worked closely with Jim Ray, beginning as the Customer Service
> > Manager and being promoted to the position of General Manager over
> > time. When LSS acquired McFeely's, I expressed a desire to continue on
> > with the company. Quite frankly, I have a lot of emotional investment
> > in the brand, having spent so much of my life trying to grow it. To my
> > delight, the folks at LSS were just as interested in continuing to do
> > the things that have made McFeely's successful as I am and I am now
> > the Brand Manager for McFeely's in our new offices in Madison, WI.
>
> > Within the LSS family of brands, there's a real attempt to keep brands
> > separate so that each unit can do the things its customers demand. So,
> > yes we have been acquired by a much larger company but no, we're not
> > being forced to walk away from value-added services like consumer-
> > friendly packaged quantities of screws. If anything, the additional
> > resources we have should let us pursue services that make us more
> > convenient for our customers. Trust me, LSS values what makes these
> > brands work.
>
> > I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
> > person with whom to identify when you're discussing McFeely's. If
> > something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
> > reached at any one of the following contacts:
>
> > [email protected]
> > 1-800-443-7937 (ask for extension 3317)
> > 1-608-662-3317 (toll number)
>
> > Generally, I work between 8AM - 6PM CST. My job in the years to come
> > is to guarantee that McFeely's doesn't change unless it's for the
> > better. I expect you to hold my feet to the fire on that.
>
> > Respectfully yours,
>
> > Ron Pegram, MBA (yes, I'm one of those dreaded MBA's but I am also one
> > of the good guys)
>
> Thank you for the above clarification.
>
> Jim Ray has been considered to be one of the "good guys" for many of us.
>
> Can you give us some idea why he sold the business?
>
> How is he doing these days?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Jim is doing well. He's hale and hearty and just off a fishing trip.

As for why he sold the business, I wouldn't dare to presume the answer
to that. I can only speculate that he felt very comfortable with the
transition provided by LSS. This isn't your stereotypical 'small
company sells out to big business' acquisition at all. We're making
great efforts to improve what we do, not cut back in any area. In
addition, the folks at LSS were involved with making the transition as
easy as possible. I don't mind telling you that anyone who expressed
an interest in moving had a good opportunity to explore that. It has
been a great move for me so far. That makes it easier for someone like
Jim to sell his business. Trust me, if the folks at LSS hadn't been as
actively involved with working with the employees as they were, I
doubt Jim would've felt comfortable. McFeely's has been and still is a
family-minded enterprise.

Hopefully, I'll speak with Jim soon. As I'm no longer in VA, we don't
run into each other and he took a pretty long vacation right after the
move. I know from a few friends that he is back at work, however and
cleaning up the old VA warehouse. We need to catch up and compare
notes but if I know Jim, he's still putting in 10-hour days. That's
just his ethic.

Ron

On Sep 17, 2:08 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
> > person with whom to identify when you're discussingMcFeely's. If
> > something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
> > reached at any one of the following contacts:
>
> Thanks for posting to the group. My big question remains: will we be able to
> pick up those greatMcFeelyscrews at Grainger's now? We've got a great one not
> far from here and I greatly prefer wandering around in there to doing mail
> order.
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Hey Mortimer,

At this time, I know of no plans to sell McFeely's packaged screws in
Grainger. I've heard the comment from more than one person of how
convenient that could be but we've not had any discussions along those
lines.

On Sep 17, 7:21 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
> > That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
> > Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>
> From Grainger's web site:
>
> "SALES POLICY
>
> Wholesale Only.
>
> Grainger sells products for business use to customers with business
> identification. Identification required from all customers. Possession
> of, or access to, any Grainger catalog, literature or websites does not
> constitute the right to purchase from W.W. Grainger, Inc. (Grainger).
> Grainger reserves the right to correct publishing errors. All references
> herein to the term "products" shall include services provided by Grainger."
>
> and also
>
> "Sales Tax.
>
> Customers are responsible for all applicable taxes or for providing a
> valid sales tax exemption certificate."
>

Guess what people......

They (Granger) wants to play wiff you IF you are willing to be what
they want you to be.
You have NO mind of your own.
You HAVE to conform.
They see Bush running with that business model, so YOU better behave!
YOU shalt have NO master other than ISRAEL!

This deserves a bit of clarification however.

While we do import fasteners, they're made to our specifications. We
don't just buy what's available and trust me, there is a lot of
questionable stuff available to buy.

Also, it's important to note that we still do business with North
American distributors. The industry changed on us and many of our
manufacturing partners became import/export brokers after it became
impossible for them to compete otherwise. I was there during the great
change-over (as we like to refer to it) and it wasn't something for
which we lobbied. We accepted it only after it became clear that the
fasteners being brought over would meet our specifications. I know how
seriously Jim Ray took the change as I was there to watch him write
the letter to our customers.

As an aside, as a part of our standard testing process, we check for
torsional strength and the quality of "bit fit". That's not to say
that we never make a mistake but we're not about to accept inferior
products just because they're cheaper. It goes against who we are. Our
imported screws match and even exceed the torsional strength of our
previous North American-made product.

Back on topic, when our manufacturing partners changed to import/
export brokers, we lowered our prices. Why? We felt that a cost
reduction should be passed on to our customers. We did that even
though the quality was equivalent.

Trust me, there's no desire to get rid of what makes us special. Yes,
we're part of the Grainger family but we'll never lose focus of those
responsible for our success. And I'm pleased to say there's been no
effort to make us do so. Our goals are all related to improving our
service, not lowering it.

And we have you all to hold our feet to the fire. If we fail you, call
me. My contact info is in my profile and my #1 professional goal is to
make sure we don't let you down.

Always yours,

Ron


On Sep 23, 9:17 am, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:

> Where do you thinkMcFeely'sgets them now?
>
> --
> Jackhttp://jbstein.com

Bill Waller wrote:

> I did a little more digging.
>
> http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely
> __________________
> Bill Waller
> New Eagle, PA
>
> [email protected]

Really hope this doesn't foretell a decline in quality and/or service.
Can only wait and see.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Mark & Juanita" wrote

> Really hope this doesn't foretell a decline in quality and/or
service.
> Can only wait and see.

Have been a Grainger customer for many years.

They didn't get where they are by screwing up a business they have
bought and folded into their business model.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

>
> "Mark & Juanita" wrote
>
>> Really hope this doesn't foretell a decline in quality and/or
> service.
>> Can only wait and see.
>
> Have been a Grainger customer for many years.
>
> They didn't get where they are by screwing up a business they have
> bought and folded into their business model.
>
> Lew

Glad to hear that. I haven't had many direct dealings with Grainger, but
I do know they have a good rep.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>or can make do with.
>
> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware
> store, let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>

That, and screws that don't snap off at the slightest over-torque.
Actually, I've had orange box screws snap off after being lubricated and
driven into pre-drilled holes before they bottom out.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Jim Behning" wrote:

> I have suffered that with lag bolts that floated across an ocean to my
> job site.
>
> I guess if you think square drive is the cat's meow then your local
> hardware store may not be the place for you. That said the local
> hardware store will likely never be the place to go compared to an
> industrial fastners supply house. I have driven a block from the
> hardware store to the fastners store to get bolts. I do not know the
> country of origin of McFeely's fastners but the fastener store sources
> from all those wonderful over seas factories. So far they have had
> what I wanted in a quality sufficient for my tasks. But I have not
> gone off on a specialty screw hunt. McFeely's certainly looks like an
> easier shopping place than other places.

SFWIW, if you are looking for S/S fasteners, they all come in from offshore.

Lately, it has been India.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

>
> "Jim Behning" wrote:
>
>> I have suffered that with lag bolts that floated across an ocean to my
>> job site.
>>
>> I guess if you think square drive is the cat's meow then your local
>> hardware store may not be the place for you. That said the local
>> hardware store will likely never be the place to go compared to an
>> industrial fastners supply house. I have driven a block from the
>> hardware store to the fastners store to get bolts. I do not know the
>> country of origin of McFeely's fastners but the fastener store sources
>> from all those wonderful over seas factories. So far they have had
>> what I wanted in a quality sufficient for my tasks. But I have not
>> gone off on a specialty screw hunt. McFeely's certainly looks like an
>> easier shopping place than other places.
>
> SFWIW, if you are looking for S/S fasteners, they all come in from
> offshore.
>
> Lately, it has been India.

I don't think it is so much the point of origin but the quality control
and quality specs that drive the price the importing company is willing to
pay. Those places that advertise low prices are willing to accept much
more marginal performance; sometimes to the point that the product becomes
worthless or nearly worthless for its intended application.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

John Martin wrote:

> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.

The one around here technically has that policy. However, when the guy
asked for a business name, it was more of a "wink wink, nudge nudge, say
no more, say no more" sort of thing.

Chris

dpb wrote:

> Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>
>>> No business ID, no sale.
>>
>> "Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you
>> made on your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>
>>> None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>>> that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>>> tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.
>>
>> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store
>> here in Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>
> It's been a few years since was where there was a branch so could have
> changed, or it could be an overall policy change.
>
> The info at the web site still indicates business tax ID which typically
> indicates the necessary info for them to justify not collecting same...
>
> --

Would suspect that is only for tax-exempt sales. Numerous businesses buy
materials in support of their own businesses (think physical plant). In
most states, sales for those purposes is subject to sales tax. Only items
being incorporated into an end product would be exempt from sales tax since
that tax is collected on the end item when it is sold to the consumer.
Large companies have their own internal users like facilities and other
engineering shops that use commercial goods and pay sales tax on those
goods.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Robatoy wrote:

> On Sep 17, 7:21 pm, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>> > That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store
>> > here in Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>>
>> From Grainger's web site:
>>
>> "SALES POLICY
>>
>> Wholesale Only.
>>
>> Grainger sells products for business use to customers with business
>> identification. Identification required from all customers. Possession
>> of, or access to, any Grainger catalog, literature or websites does not
>> constitute the right to purchase from W.W. Grainger, Inc. (Grainger).
>> Grainger reserves the right to correct publishing errors. All references
>> herein to the term "products" shall include services provided by
>> Grainger."
>>
>> and also
>>
>> "Sales Tax.
>>
>> Customers are responsible for all applicable taxes or for providing a
>> valid sales tax exemption certificate."
>>
>
> Guess what people......
>
> They (Granger) wants to play wiff you IF you are willing to be what
> they want you to be.
> You have NO mind of your own.
> You HAVE to conform.
> They see Bush running with that business model, so YOU better behave!
> YOU shalt have NO master other than ISRAEL!

Whoa dude! That BDS (Bush derangement syndrome) is getting pretty bad.
Especially if you see that in the business model of a company that has had
that policy for way more years than Bush has been in office. Israel? Huh?


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>
>>> No business ID, no sale.
>>
>> "Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you
>made on
>> your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>
>>> None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>>> that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>>> tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.
>>
>> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
>> Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>
>It's been a few years since was where there was a branch so could have
>changed, or it could be an overall policy change.
>
>The info at the web site still indicates business tax ID which typically
>indicates the necessary info for them to justify not collecting same...

*NOT* True. The only stuff that sales tax is not collected on is stuff
that is purchased "for resale". Material sold to a business, for that
business's own use -is- taxable, and the seller must collect tax on it.

You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
number.

In article <XVDHi.2305$Yb2.466@trndny08>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>
>>>The store in our area requires you to have an account with them.
>>>Setting up an account requires a tax number.
>>>
>>
>> And a tax number can be simply your SSN -- lots of guys in business for
>> themselves as sole proprietorships, reporting the income on their
>personal tax
>> returns using SSN as the ID#.
>>
>
>Here's an excerpt from the New York State Sales Tax web site:
>
>"If you intentionally issue a fraudulent exemption certificate, you will
>become liable for penalties and interest, in addition to the sales
>tax initially due. Some penalties that may apply:
>
> 100% of the tax due
>
> $50 for each fraudulent exemption certificate issued
>
> A misdemeanor penalty consisting of fines not to exceed $10,000 for
> an individual or $20,000 for a corporation"
>

Ignoring, of course, that a tax exemption certificate is something
totally different from a business 'tax id' number. <grin>

*EVERY* business has a 'tax id' number.
_ONLY_ businesses that sell goods at retail-- and collect sales taxes
thereon -- are exempt from paying sales tax on the goods that resold
as part of the finished product. In some areas, bona-fide non-profits
may also be exempt from paying taxes on material purchased for internal
use. An "exemption certifiate" is what one of those purchasers gives
to their supplier to establish that said supplier need not collect sales
tax on designated purchases.

Your cite is 100% correct.
Doug's statements are ALSO 100% correct.

They're just talking about _different_ things. :)

In article <r0SHi.6226$6B2.4314@trndny04>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>>>
>>>>>No business ID, no sale.
>>>>
>>>>"Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you
>>>
>>>made on
>>>
>>>>your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>>>>>that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>>>>>tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.
>>>>
>>>>That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store
>here in
>>>>Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>>>
>>>It's been a few years since was where there was a branch so could have
>>>changed, or it could be an overall policy change.
>>>
>>>The info at the web site still indicates business tax ID which typically
>>>indicates the necessary info for them to justify not collecting same...
>>
>>
>> *NOT* True. The only stuff that sales tax is not collected on is stuff
>> that is purchased "for resale". Material sold to a business, for that
>> business's own use -is- taxable, and the seller must collect tax on it.
>>
>> You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
>> 'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
>> number.
>>
>
>As a retail business operator in New York State I have to track sales
>tax "exempt" purchases for in-house use and pay the appropriate tax due.
> This applies to out of state/internet purchases, purchases made on
>an Indian reservation. etc. as well. Sales tax is considered an end
>user tax and the end user is ultimately responsible for paying the tax
>if it was not collected by the seller.

Technically, on things like out-of-state purchases, one _doesn't_ pay "sales
tax", but 'use tax', which, by a strange turn of affairs, is exactly
the same rate as the sales tax. They are separate and distinct items in
statute and state tax regs.

On in-state purchases for "in-house use", one _should_ be paying the sales
tax at the time of purchase. NYS may allow 'no tax' purchase, and belated
tax submission by the purchaser, to 'make good' on in-house consumption --
Several jurisdictions that I am aware of do _not_; and one gets in significant
hot water if something purchased 'exempt, for resale' is used in-house.

In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>
>No business ID, no sale.

"Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made on
your home PC, and a cell phone number.

> None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.

That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article <H4SHi.3931$Ap2.1357@trndny05>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>>>
>>>>>No business ID, no sale.
>>>>
>>>>"Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made
> on
>>>>your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>>
>>>Not in the sales tax world.
>>
>>
>> But we're not talking about sales tax right here. We're talking about
>> Grainger's policy regarding who they will sell to, and who they won't. Their
>> policy is that they sell only to businesses; the fact is that their
> definition
>> of a "business" is lenient enough to include the sole proprietor working out
>> of his own home.
>>
>
>Agreed, but I had to submit proof (NYS reseller certificate) before I
>was able to purchase from Grainger.
>
I imagine that what constitutes acceptable "business identification" may vary
from one Grainger store to the next, and can be affected by state law as well.
Indiana has a much less aggressive regulatory climate than New York.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:38:28 -0400, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>What's the task?
>I think it's a great idea and would be interested in getting a copy
>myself, so any info to that end that you'd be willing to share would
>be appreciated.
>
>Thanx
>Renata

Well, it's nothing that I wrote, though I suspect a script/macro could
be written to do the job. I use Quicken for all my financial records.
One of the built in features is a "One Step Update" which can be
configured to go online and update not only the program itself, but
also any accounts which have been enabled for online access. That
update operation can be set to run at scheduled times.

I have a couple of complaints with the program. First, if the update
fails for any reason, it leaves a copy of Quicken running without a
user interface. The only way I've found to shut the "background" task
down and allow a "foreground" copy with a GUI to run, other than to
restart the computer, is to kill the process using Task Manager. The
other complaint is that the scheduled task doesn't run as a service
which means the user has to be logged on to the machine in order for
the task to run. Neither one is a 'deal killer' for me, but I do find
it a little aggravating.



Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

J. Clarke wrote:

> Nova wrote:

>
> I'm not sure I see your point. All that last says is that "We'll
> charge you sales tax unless you have a tax number".
>
> You seem to be more interested in what a Web site says than in what
> happens in the real world and in the real world you walk into Grainger
> with money and a need for a product that they have in stock and
> they're more than happy to take your money and give you the product.
>
> Try it. They're not going to shoot you.
>

BTDT, To open my own business account I had to submit proof I was a
valid business operator (NYS resale certificate).

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Doug Miller wrote:
>
> And a tax number can be simply your SSN -- lots of guys in business for
> themselves as sole proprietorships, reporting the income on their personal tax
> returns using SSN as the ID#.

Wholesalers typically want a sales /use tax number, the kind you get
from your state, not a federal ID, unless credit is requested. Income
reporting by the buyer doesn't have much to do with a wholesale
transaction.

My local Grainger only insists on a tax ID if they aren't going to add
sales tax to the purchase. No tax number? They collect the proper
sales tax, and will sell to most anyone, but at a higher retail price
requiring instant payment. My local plumbing and electric suppliers do
the same, there's a true wholesale "trade" price, and there's a retail
price. Some wholesalers are not set up to collect sales tax at all, so
they can't sell anything without a sales / use tax number to pass the
tax collection responsibility along to.

Most federal tax ID numbers "06-xxx..., or an SSN" are used in the
wholesale business to extend credit, which also may include a Dunn &
Bradstreet rating check. The licensed trades may also have to provide
their trade license number to buy certain items.

In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>>>> what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>>>> walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>>>> all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>>>> live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>>>> or can make do with.
>>>> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware
> store,
>>>> let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>>> No problem, they're right there on the shelf...what you need?
>>>
>> Let me guess... you're in Canada.
>
>Not that I'm aware of...
>
Where is it, then, that you have an easy time finding square-drive screws at
the local hardware store?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>> what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>> walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>> all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>> live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>> or can make do with.
>>
>> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware store,
>> let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>
>No problem, they're right there on the shelf...what you need?
>
Let me guess... you're in Canada.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>I did a little more digging.
>
>http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely

If this means I'll be able to buy McFeely screws by walking into the Grainger
store that's less than ten minutes from home *and* open Saturdays, it sounds
good to me.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>>
>>>>No business ID, no sale.
>>>
>>>"Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made on
>>>your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>
>>Not in the sales tax world.
>
>
> But we're not talking about sales tax right here. We're talking about
> Grainger's policy regarding who they will sell to, and who they won't. Their
> policy is that they sell only to businesses; the fact is that their definition
> of a "business" is lenient enough to include the sole proprietor working out
> of his own home.
>

Agreed, but I had to submit proof (NYS reseller certificate) before I
was able to purchase from Grainger.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Lab Safety Supply is the parent company of WW Grainger.

Actually, it's the other way around. From the press release you cite below:

"Grainger, a leading North American industrial distributor, today announced
its Lab Safety Supply (LSS) subsidiary has acquired substantially all of the
assets of McFeely’s Square Drive Screws of Lynchburg, Virginia. [...]"

>I'm not sure
>that a hardware company getting taken over by Grainger is a bad thing
>at all, especially if they keep the brands separate, which they seem
>to be planning to do.
>
>Here's the press release:
>
>http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely
>
>

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

> Mmmmmmm. We are all making a lot of assumptions here.
> McFeely has developed an asset worth a lot of money.
> Maybe it was time to move on.
> I just hope that Granger can keep that "AwChucks' image alive, an
> image I found so endearing and was willing to pay extra for.
> That one-on-one relationship is so damned rare these days. Will
> Granger say: "I'll get on it, Rob, btw, how is your sister?"
> Not bloody likely.
> The whole square drive profit centre will get a good thinning, and
> they'll keep those few things which will make them money. Guys like
> McFeely also had parts and pieces, not as a profit centre, but as a
> complement to a profit centre. Granger's MBA's are not likely to give
> a damn about that.
> McFeely was a Festool dealer as well....that makes for an interesting
> marriage.
>
> My gut-feeling tells me that McFeely did all right, WE are not likely
> to benefit. Granger will likely rape the brand.
> Maybe we'll get square-drive screws made in China, which may or may
> not fit our drivers.
>
> </cynicism>

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions based on a gut-feeling...now I'm
not going to say that your predictions are NOT going to come true, just the
LSS and Grainger have been doing business for a long time and don't tend
towards the "buy and gut" method that many other companies do. LSS started
out in a dudes garage, was easy going and easy to deal with then and nothing
about that has chaged in the past 20 years or so that I've dealt with them.

And no...I have no connection to them other than having the same ZIP code.

Mike

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>
>> No business ID, no sale.
>
> "Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made on
> your home PC, and a cell phone number.

Not in the sales tax world.

> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
> Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.


Absolutely true! States vary, locations vary.

My in-law's asbestos and lead abatement company went through a "use tax"
audit that took almost two years to complete. CT is absolutely a pit
bull with sales tax.

In article <iIAHi.2178$yO2.1870@trndny01>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>John Martin wrote:
>> Everyone seems to be singing the praises of Grainger, and I'm a bit
>> curious as to people's dealings with them.
>>
>> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
>> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
>> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
>> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.
>>
>> Do you find most of the Grainger stores sell to walk-ins? No
>> mandatory minimum charges? How about by mail?
>>
>> John Martin
>>
>
>The store in our area requires you to have an account with them.
>Setting up an account requires a tax number.
>
And a tax number can be simply your SSN -- lots of guys in business for
themselves as sole proprietorships, reporting the income on their personal tax
returns using SSN as the ID#.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

>>
>>The store in our area requires you to have an account with them.
>>Setting up an account requires a tax number.
>>
>
> And a tax number can be simply your SSN -- lots of guys in business for
> themselves as sole proprietorships, reporting the income on their personal tax
> returns using SSN as the ID#.
>

Here's an excerpt from the New York State Sales Tax web site:

"If you intentionally issue a fraudulent exemption certificate, you will
become liable for penalties and interest, in addition to the sales
tax initially due. Some penalties that may apply:

100% of the tax due

$50 for each fraudulent exemption certificate issued

A misdemeanor penalty consisting of fines not to exceed $10,000 for
an individual or $20,000 for a corporation"

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

<snippage>
> Where is it, then, that you have an easy time finding square-drive
> screws at the local hardware store?
>

I'm not who you asked, but my local Do It Best Hardware, a true value to
the community. has many styles and grades of square drive screws, and
drivers, too.

And parking right in front. And help that knows what they're talking
about, and where to find the stuff. And knows my name, too.

Although Peter hasn't asked about my sister, lately. ;-)

Third generation in the business, and the fourth generation is learning,
too. Girls!

Patriarch

In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning <[email protected]> wrote:

>I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>or can make do with.

Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware store,
let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

IN REPLY TO . . .
. . . I have not gone off on a specialty screw hunt. McFeely's certainly
looks like an easier shopping place than other places.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
SNIP
> >
> > SFWIW, if you are looking for S/S fasteners, they all come in from
> > offshore.
> >
> > Lately, it has been India.
>
> I don't think it is so much the point of origin but the quality control
> and quality specs that drive the price the importing company is willing to
> pay.
SNIP

I'm a big user of screws . . . vs. nails. Predominately this means SS,
followed by Bronze {Marine}, then McFeeley's 'Yellow Zinc' - with a
'100-hour Salt Spray test' - followed by the more 'common' coated steel. I
have tried to convert completely to 'square drive' for good, solid,
mechanical reasons. They are even used for 'land-based' & 'home' projects.

That being said, it took me some time to arrive at this stage. I absolutely
HATE paying shipping charges . . . especially when they go up by steep
increments. Plus this stuff is HEAVY. I've had very good service from
McFeeley's - hopefully this will continue. I plan ahead on my orders and get
'efficient quantities'. I WILL check with Grainger . . . there used to be a
local 'office' in a nearby industrial park.

Regards & Thanks,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:15:45 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>>what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>>walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>>all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>>live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>>or can make do with.
>>
>> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware
>> store, let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>>
>
> That, and screws that don't snap off at the slightest over-torque.
>Actually, I've had orange box screws snap off after being lubricated and
>driven into pre-drilled holes before they bottom out.

I have suffered that with lag bolts that floated across an ocean to my
job site.

I guess if you think square drive is the cat's meow then your local
hardware store may not be the place for you. That said the local
hardware store will likely never be the place to go compared to an
industrial fastners supply house. I have driven a block from the
hardware store to the fastners store to get bolts. I do not know the
country of origin of McFeely's fastners but the fastener store sources
from all those wonderful over seas factories. So far they have had
what I wanted in a quality sufficient for my tasks. But I have not
gone off on a specialty screw hunt. McFeely's certainly looks like an
easier shopping place than other places.

Jay Pique wrote:
> On Sep 13, 6:07 pm, "WoodButcher" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I had a phone call from McFeely's this morning and the caller ID
>> showed as LAB SAFETY SUPP.
>
> Good for Ray. Not good for us, or for "McFeely's" - you can bet on
> that.

Lab Safety Supply is the parent company of WW Grainger. I'm not sure
that a hardware company getting taken over by Grainger is a bad thing
at all, especially if they keep the brands separate, which they seem
to be planning to do.

Here's the press release:

http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>> what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>> walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>> all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>> live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>> or can make do with.
>
> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware store,
> let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.

No problem, they're right there on the shelf...what you need?

--

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>>> what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>>> walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>>> all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>>> live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>>> or can make do with.
>>> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware store,
>>> let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>> No problem, they're right there on the shelf...what you need?
>>
> Let me guess... you're in Canada.

Not that I'm aware of...

--

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Behning
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
>>>>>> what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
>>>>>> walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
>>>>>> all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
>>>>>> live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
>>>>>> or can make do with.
>>>>> Sure, but try finding *any* square-drive screws at your local hardware
>> store,
>>>>> let alone a box of a hundred. That's what McFeely's specializes in.
>>>> No problem, they're right there on the shelf...what you need?
>>>>
>>> Let me guess... you're in Canada.
>> Not that I'm aware of...
>>
> Where is it, then, that you have an easy time finding square-drive screws at
> the local hardware store?

Corner of 15th and Main...

--

John Martin wrote:
> Everyone seems to be singing the praises of Grainger, and I'm a bit
> curious as to people's dealings with them.
>
> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.
>
> Do you find most of the Grainger stores sell to walk-ins? No
> mandatory minimum charges? How about by mail?
>

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html

No business ID, no sale. None of the branches I have seen (and I think
that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.

I strongly suspect that will not be anything they would do to McFeely's
as it would essentially remove the need for having purchased it to begin
with...

It is, in fact, the retail sales aspect of it that I would presume
attracted their interest.

--

John Martin wrote:
> Everyone seems to be singing the praises of Grainger, and I'm a bit
> curious as to people's dealings with them.
>
> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on
> the
> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the
> local
> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.
>
> Do you find most of the Grainger stores sell to walk-ins? No
> mandatory minimum charges? How about by mail?

They're set up to sell to people who are either maintaining facilities
or manufacturing products--in the former case they assume that you're
looking for a replacement for an existing part, while in the latter
they're assuming that you're looking for something that was specified
by an engineer. As long as you act like you're in one of those
categories, i.e. have a part number and quantity or a sample of what
you need or a busted part you need to replace, there shouldn't be any
problem.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Chris Friesen wrote:
> John Martin wrote:
>
>> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
>> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
>> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
>> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.
>
> The one around here technically has that policy. However, when the guy
> asked for a business name, it was more of a "wink wink, nudge nudge, say
> no more, say no more" sort of thing.

Probably has to do w/ how recently the local/state folks have audited
their sales tax exemption records... :)

Here, they're pretty picky on them which discourages such "under the
counter" sales as it's not a pretty pickle to get into (and can be
expensive getting out).

--

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>
>> No business ID, no sale.
>
> "Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you made on
> your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>
>> None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>> that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>> tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.
>
> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
> Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.

It's been a few years since was where there was a branch so could have
changed, or it could be an overall policy change.

The info at the web site still indicates business tax ID which typically
indicates the necessary info for them to justify not collecting same...

--

dpb wrote:
> Chris Friesen wrote:
>> John Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on
>>> the door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long
>>> as
>>> the customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found
>>> the local Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on
>>> that policy.
>>
>> The one around here technically has that policy. However, when the
>> guy asked for a business name, it was more of a "wink wink, nudge
>> nudge, say no more, say no more" sort of thing.
>
> Probably has to do w/ how recently the local/state folks have
> audited
> their sales tax exemption records... :)
>
> Here, they're pretty picky on them which discourages such "under the
> counter" sales as it's not a pretty pickle to get into (and can be
> expensive getting out).

When you order off the Web site they collect sales tax. The local
branch belongs to the same company, so it's also "set up to collect
sales tax" and they've never asked me for a tax number in the branch
and have always collected tax. If you have a tax number they'll take
it but they don't require it.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>> Chris Friesen wrote:
>>> John Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on
>>>> the door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long
>>>> as
>>>> the customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found
>>>> the local Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on
>>>> that policy.
>>> The one around here technically has that policy. However, when the
>>> guy asked for a business name, it was more of a "wink wink, nudge
>>> nudge, say no more, say no more" sort of thing.
>> Probably has to do w/ how recently the local/state folks have
>> audited
>> their sales tax exemption records... :)
>>
>> Here, they're pretty picky on them which discourages such "under the
>> counter" sales as it's not a pretty pickle to get into (and can be
>> expensive getting out).
>
> When you order off the Web site they collect sales tax. The local
> branch belongs to the same company, so it's also "set up to collect
> sales tax" and they've never asked me for a tax number in the branch
> and have always collected tax. If you have a tax number they'll take
> it but they don't require it.

They've changed, then...but it's been quite a while since I was where
there was a local one. There, "no account, no sale" and no cash sales,
only "on-account" and no tax on the invoices. Or, maybe local outlets
didn't all operate under the same rules, only have the one to compare to.

Given the words on the web site that pretty much mirrored that, I
figured that was still their operational mode...

What with the web sales and advent of integrated inventory and
collection software, not too surprising they've "modernized". I've not
bought anything direct from Grainger or McMaster-Carr in ten years as
the local machine shop gets orders in next or second day routinely and
since the shipping is amortized over the larger volume it's much more
convenient and usually still cheaper after they take their cut to simply
get them to place the order since they also just add it to the monthly
statement.

--

Nova wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>>
>> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger
>> store here in Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales
>> tax.
>>
>
> From Grainger's web site:
>
> "SALES POLICY
>
> Wholesale Only.
>
> Grainger sells products for business use to customers with business
> identification. Identification required from all customers.
> Possession
> of, or access to, any Grainger catalog, literature or websites does
> not constitute the right to purchase from W.W. Grainger, Inc.
> (Grainger). Grainger reserves the right to correct publishing
> errors.
> All references herein to the term “products” shall include services
> provided by Grainger."
>
> and also
>
> "Sales Tax.
>
> Customers are responsible for all applicable taxes or for providing
> a
> valid sales tax exemption certificate."

I'm not sure I see your point. All that last says is that "We'll
charge you sales tax unless you have a tax number".

You seem to be more interested in what a Web site says than in what
happens in the real world and in the real world you walk into Grainger
with money and a need for a product that they have in stock and
they're more than happy to take your money and give you the product.

Try it. They're not going to shoot you.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Robert Bonomi wrote:
...
> You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
> 'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
> number.

Depends on _which_ tax id one is referring to...

--

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> ....
>>> You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
>>> 'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
>>> number.
>> Depends on _which_ tax id one is referring to...
>>
> As far as I'm concerned, it's a moot point. ...

Undoubtedly...just pedantic mode on... :)

OP should try and see what it takes in his situation.

As noted elsewhere, there's not one local here, so the cost-effective
and convenient way for me is to let the guys at the machine shop add
order and pick it up next day or the day after at worst and since got to
go to town to get the mail anyway, no additional effort to stop by on
the way to/from...in TN, there was one not too far away, but at that
time, at least, they were open-account only and it took a fair-sized
account to get through the approval process. But that's getting to be
quite some time ago now although it's easy to forget how long that has
actually been... :)

--



--

Nova wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Nova wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not sure I see your point. All that last says is that "We'll
>> charge you sales tax unless you have a tax number".
>>
>> You seem to be more interested in what a Web site says than in what
>> happens in the real world and in the real world you walk into
>> Grainger with money and a need for a product that they have in
>> stock
>> and they're more than happy to take your money and give you the
>> product.
>>
>> Try it. They're not going to shoot you.
>>
>
> BTDT, To open my own business account I had to submit proof I was a
> valid business operator (NYS resale certificate).

Who said anything about "opening my own business account"?



--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

dpb wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> dpb wrote:
>>> Chris Friesen wrote:
>>>> John Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only"
>>>>> on
>>>>> the door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long
>>>>> as
>>>>> the customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found
>>>>> the local Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side
>>>>> on
>>>>> that policy.
>>>> The one around here technically has that policy. However, when
>>>> the
>>>> guy asked for a business name, it was more of a "wink wink, nudge
>>>> nudge, say no more, say no more" sort of thing.
>>> Probably has to do w/ how recently the local/state folks have
>>> audited
>>> their sales tax exemption records... :)
>>>
>>> Here, they're pretty picky on them which discourages such "under
>>> the
>>> counter" sales as it's not a pretty pickle to get into (and can be
>>> expensive getting out).
>>
>> When you order off the Web site they collect sales tax. The local
>> branch belongs to the same company, so it's also "set up to collect
>> sales tax" and they've never asked me for a tax number in the
>> branch
>> and have always collected tax. If you have a tax number they'll
>> take
>> it but they don't require it.
>
> They've changed, then...but it's been quite a while since I was
> where
> there was a local one. There, "no account, no sale" and no cash
> sales, only "on-account" and no tax on the invoices. Or, maybe
> local
> outlets didn't all operate under the same rules, only have the one
> to
> compare to.
>
> Given the words on the web site that pretty much mirrored that, I
> figured that was still their operational mode...
>
> What with the web sales and advent of integrated inventory and
> collection software, not too surprising they've "modernized". I've
> not bought anything direct from Grainger or McMaster-Carr in ten
> years as the local machine shop gets orders in next or second day
> routinely and since the shipping is amortized over the larger volume
> it's much more convenient and usually still cheaper after they take
> their cut to simply get them to place the order since they also just
> add it to the monthly statement.

Might be the Person Behind The Counter, too. My Dad and I used to buy
anything we needed from Graybar in Jacksonville, FL. One day I went
in to get some watertight conduit for the boat and the PBTC told me he
wouldn't sell to me without either an electrician's license or a
building permit. So I asked to talk to his supervisor and explained
the situation, including the fact that they don't issue building
permits for modifications made to boats and the supervisor tore the
twit a new one and I walked out with my conduit.

Some PBTCs need to be LARTed a few times before they get it through
their heads that their job is to sell stuff, not drum up business for
members of the IBEW or whoever.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
...
> Might be the Person Behind The Counter, too. ...

Sometimes, undoubtedly.

However, the thing w/ the Grainger in TN was that there were no cash
sales of any kind -- everything was open-account so w/o the account, you
didn't walk away w/ (anything except an account application, perhaps).
Very handy as didn't have to have the checkbook or cash and made the
transaction quick and sweet....of course, that was pushing 20 years ago
now--it's depressing to realize that in some ways, refreshing in
others... :)

As that was the only place ever was that had a local outlet, I assumed
that was they operated everywhere.

--

I did a little more digging.

http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely
__________________
Bill Waller
New Eagle, PA

[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If this means I'll be able to buy McFeely screws by walking into the Grainger
>> store that's less than ten minutes from home *and* open Saturdays, it sounds
>> good to me.
>
>
>That's exactly what I was thinking - I haven't used McF's screws, but
>I'd be much more likely to try them if I could pick up a small
>quantity locally without paying shipping.

Define "small quantity." :-)

You're not likely to find them at Grainger's in any quantity less than a box
of a hundred. To some, that *is* a small quantity; to others, it's not.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Robatoy wrote:

> My gut-feeling tells me that McFeely did all right, WE are not likely
> to benefit. Granger will likely rape the brand.
> Maybe we'll get square-drive screws made in China, which may or may
> not fit our drivers.

> </cynicism>

Where do you think McFeely's gets them now?

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

[email protected] wrote:
> I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
> person with whom to identify when you're discussing McFeely's. If
> something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
> reached at any one of the following contacts:


Thanks for posting to the group. My big question remains: will we be able to
pick up those great McFeely screws at Grainger's now? We've got a great one not
far from here and I greatly prefer wandering around in there to doing mail
order.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

John Martin wrote:
> Everyone seems to be singing the praises of Grainger, and I'm a bit
> curious as to people's dealings with them.
>
> Lots of places have "Trade Only" or "Commercial Accounts Only" on the
> door. Most, however, are willing to sell to anyone, as long as the
> customer has a reasonable idea of what he wants. I've found the local
> Grainger - Portland, Maine - a bit on the rigid side on that policy.
>
> Do you find most of the Grainger stores sell to walk-ins? No
> mandatory minimum charges? How about by mail?
>
> John Martin
>

The store in our area requires you to have an account with them.
Setting up an account requires a tax number.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:38:11 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>As far as I'm concerned, it's a moot point. I opened an account at Grainger
>with a business card. The only other information they asked for was how I
>planned to pay for purchases (i.e. if I wanted to open a credit account).
>Told them, Nope, I'll pay as I go, with cash or check. Took less than five
>minutes.

It's been 5 years now, but I opened my account through their website.
I know for a fact that I didn't do it in person at the store. Simple,
easy, no questions, no hassle. A company name required, but no tax
number necessary - neither a taxpayer ID nor a sales tax exemption
certificate (whichever one is meant by the term "tax number"). I don't
recall if the online application had a field for such a number, but if
there was one, it wasn't a _required_ field.

I recently noticed that fasteners had been added to their catalog.
Last night, out of curiosity, I made a search for square
drive/Robertson screws in their online catalog and didn't find any
obvious references, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the McFeely
product line - including the square drive items - show up in their
catalog at some point.

I pay by credit card so if/when I need something it's just place a
"Will Call" order online, give them the credit card number, stop by
the store the next time I go by there, sign for it, and I'm on my way.
Quick, easy, maybe not the least expensive source, but my experience
has been that the quality is generally better. And it's no question
that it's a lot more convenient than trying to deal with the BORG
drones or sort through bins trying to find something that actually
matches the label on the bin.

I know some folks are leery about CC transactions online, but I've
never had a minute's trouble. One of my requirements for an account
(credit, demand deposit, etc.) with any financial institution is that
they provide online/download access to the account. A scheduled task
runs on my computer every morning that downloads all transactions from
all my open accounts. That gives me notification within 24 hours of
any transactions posted to that account. Have yet to see a single
unauthorized transaction from Grainger, or any other source for that
matter.



Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Hey folks,
>
>I'm Ron Pegram. I've been with McFeely's since 1997. During that time,
>I worked closely with Jim Ray, beginning as the Customer Service
>Manager and being promoted to the position of General Manager over
>time. When LSS acquired McFeely's, I expressed a desire to continue on
>with the company. Quite frankly, I have a lot of emotional investment
>in the brand, having spent so much of my life trying to grow it. To my
>delight, the folks at LSS were just as interested in continuing to do
>the things that have made McFeely's successful as I am and I am now
>the Brand Manager for McFeely's in our new offices in Madison, WI.
>
>Within the LSS family of brands, there's a real attempt to keep brands
>separate so that each unit can do the things its customers demand. So,
>yes we have been acquired by a much larger company but no, we're not
>being forced to walk away from value-added services like consumer-
>friendly packaged quantities of screws. If anything, the additional
>resources we have should let us pursue services that make us more
>convenient for our customers. Trust me, LSS values what makes these
>brands work.
>
>I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
>person with whom to identify when you're discussing McFeely's. If
>something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
>reached at any one of the following contacts:
>
>[email protected]
>1-800-443-7937 (ask for extension 3317)
>1-608-662-3317 (toll number)
>
>Generally, I work between 8AM - 6PM CST. My job in the years to come
>is to guarantee that McFeely's doesn't change unless it's for the
>better. I expect you to hold my feet to the fire on that.
>
>Respectfully yours,
>
>Ron Pegram, MBA (yes, I'm one of those dreaded MBA's but I am also one
>of the good guys)

Ron - thanks very much for the response, and *especially* for providing your
contact info. You'll probably hear from a lot of people here.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:51:04 -0700, Andy <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Define "small quantity." :-)
>>
>> You're not likely to find them at Grainger's in any quantity less than a box
>> of a hundred. To some, that *is* a small quantity; to others, it's not.
>
>Yes, a box of 100 would be great. Even one of their variety packs,
>100 each of a few different sizes, would be fine. I realize that
>trying to buy 10 screws or something would be just about
>impossible... I was just hoping for home handyman quantities, not
>commercial cabinetmaker quantities. Any educated guesses whether
>Grainger will sell McF's screws through their retail stores? Or how
>separate do they tend to keep the companies they acquire?
>Thanks,
>Andy
I went by the hardware store tonight when the orange box did not have
what I wanted. They had homeowner quanties of one to a box of 100. I
walked out with 3 boxes of different sizes. If I finsih any project
all the screws wil be gone and a need for a few more boxes. If you
live in a town with a good hadware store they may have what you need
or can make do with.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey folks,
>
> I'm Ron Pegram. I've been with McFeely's since 1997. During that time,
> I worked closely with Jim Ray, beginning as the Customer Service
> Manager and being promoted to the position of General Manager over
> time. When LSS acquired McFeely's, I expressed a desire to continue on
> with the company. Quite frankly, I have a lot of emotional investment
> in the brand, having spent so much of my life trying to grow it. To my
> delight, the folks at LSS were just as interested in continuing to do
> the things that have made McFeely's successful as I am and I am now
> the Brand Manager for McFeely's in our new offices in Madison, WI.
>
> Within the LSS family of brands, there's a real attempt to keep brands
> separate so that each unit can do the things its customers demand. So,
> yes we have been acquired by a much larger company but no, we're not
> being forced to walk away from value-added services like consumer-
> friendly packaged quantities of screws. If anything, the additional
> resources we have should let us pursue services that make us more
> convenient for our customers. Trust me, LSS values what makes these
> brands work.
>
> I've posted this here because I want you all to have a name and a
> person with whom to identify when you're discussing McFeely's. If
> something we do isn't to your liking, please let me know. I can be
> reached at any one of the following contacts:
>
> [email protected]
> 1-800-443-7937 (ask for extension 3317)
> 1-608-662-3317 (toll number)
>
> Generally, I work between 8AM - 6PM CST. My job in the years to come
> is to guarantee that McFeely's doesn't change unless it's for the
> better. I expect you to hold my feet to the fire on that.
>
> Respectfully yours,
>
> Ron Pegram, MBA (yes, I'm one of those dreaded MBA's but I am also one
> of the good guys)
>
>

Thank you for the above clarification.

Jim Ray has been considered to be one of the "good guys" for many of us.

Can you give us some idea why he sold the business?

How is he doing these days?

In article <[email protected]>, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill Waller wrote:
>
>> I did a little more digging.
>>
>> http://www.labsafety.com/aboutus/pressrel.htm#mcfeely
>
> Really hope this doesn't foretell a decline in quality and/or service.
>Can only wait and see.

I would expect the opposite, actually. Grainger's a class act. Not to
imply that McFeely's wasn't, of course. But Grainger is a very professional
operation. IME their customer service and product quality are uniformly
excellent.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:


>
> That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
> Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>

From Grainger's web site:

"SALES POLICY

Wholesale Only.

Grainger sells products for business use to customers with business
identification. Identification required from all customers. Possession
of, or access to, any Grainger catalog, literature or websites does not
constitute the right to purchase from W.W. Grainger, Inc. (Grainger).
Grainger reserves the right to correct publishing errors. All references
herein to the term “products” shall include services provided by Grainger."

and also

"Sales Tax.

Customers are responsible for all applicable taxes or for providing a
valid sales tax exemption certificate."

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/static.jsp?page=help_termsofpurcat.html
>>>>
>>>>No business ID, no sale.
>>>
>>>"Business identification" can be as simple as a business card that you
>>
>>made on
>>
>>>your home PC, and a cell phone number.
>>>
>>>
>>>>None of the branches I have seen (and I think
>>>>that holds for web/mail order sales as well) are set up to collect sales
>>>>tax -- ergo, no business id to show exemption, no sale.
>>>
>>>That apparently varies from one state to the next: the Grainger store here in
>>>Indianapolis is certainly set up to collect sales tax.
>>
>>It's been a few years since was where there was a branch so could have
>>changed, or it could be an overall policy change.
>>
>>The info at the web site still indicates business tax ID which typically
>>indicates the necessary info for them to justify not collecting same...
>
>
> *NOT* True. The only stuff that sales tax is not collected on is stuff
> that is purchased "for resale". Material sold to a business, for that
> business's own use -is- taxable, and the seller must collect tax on it.
>
> You have to prove a "sales tax permit/id" to escape paying sales tax on
> 'for resale' items. This is a very different thing from a business 'tax id'
> number.
>

As a retail business operator in New York State I have to track sales
tax "exempt" purchases for in-house use and pay the appropriate tax due.
This applies to out of state/internet purchases, purchases made on
an Indian reservation. etc. as well. Sales tax is considered an end
user tax and the end user is ultimately responsible for paying the tax
if it was not collected by the seller.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:19:09 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

-snip-
> A scheduled task
>runs on my computer every morning that downloads all transactions from
>all my open accounts. That gives me notification within 24 hours of
>any transactions posted to that account. Have yet to see a single
>unauthorized transaction from Grainger, or any other source for that
>matter.
>
>
>
>Tom Veatch
>Wichita, KS
>USA

What's the task?
I think it's a great idea and would be interested in getting a copy
myself, so any info to that end that you'd be willing to share would
be appreciated.

Thanx
Renata

>>
>>Not that I'm aware of...
>>
> Where is it, then, that you have an easy time finding square-drive screws
> at
> the local hardware store?
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


I don't know about dbp but the local Ace hardware...in southern
Wisconsin...has them...a pretty good asortment of sizes and
materials...including some stainless ones.

Mike

I had a phone call from McFeely's this morning and the caller ID
showed as LAB SAFETY SUPP.
Art

"Bill Waller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I placed an order online using their catalog which shows a Lynchburg, VA,
> address. Everything went fine and the lag screw and washers arrived within a
> day of when I expected them. I don't need them until tomorrow so a day late was
> no big deal. I did not pay any attention to the package and it went into the
> burn barrel this morning.
>
> In today's mail, I received an invoice for the order with a $0.00 balance. I
> don't recall this ever happening before.
>
> Upon closer examination of the invoice, I find that they (McFeely's) have an
> address in Janesville, Wisconsin. Upon further digging around onthe web site, I
> find that they are a division of Lab Safety Supply, Inc., with a Madison WI,
> address
>
> A review ofthe UPS tracking on the order also verifies that they are now
> shipping from Wisconsin.
>
> It looks like they sold out or got sucked up.
>
> I sure hope that we don't see any changes in products or policy.
> __________________
> Bill Waller
> New Eagle, PA
>
> [email protected]