I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in
Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like I
was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to cope
cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
4"crowns.
Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ae074de5-4464-4978-ae3f-216cc67576a0@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> In perfect world with perfect trim that goes into perfectly square
> rooms that have perfectly square corners, you don't need to cope.
>
> Or if you are like many that I know, 1/2" caulk relieves you of the
> responsibility of making a good joint.
>
> I always cope. Every single time.
But you have years of experience that help you cope with hard installations
Robert!
On May 3, 11:29=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I usually solve that problem by cutting the second one first. =A0;)
Well.... that got big spew of coffee!!
Nice one.
Robert
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Expensive yes but not prohibitively so. I think the $40 would be recouped
> quickly in time savings.
Possibly, but who would buy one except a homeowner? And then, time isn't as
important a factor. The contractors I know would die from embarrassment if
they were caught with one, at least they'd never admit using one.
I guess if you're spatially challenged with crown moulding, then it would
save money compared to what might be lost in wasted wood, but fortunately,
that's not a problem I've ever had. There's no way in hell I'd ever be
installing crown moulding anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.
"I asked him about coping and he got pissed..." funny! LOL..
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in
> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
> blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
> prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
> looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like I
> was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to cope
> cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
> crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
> 4"crowns.
> Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
> use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I usually solve that problem by cutting the second one first. ;)
And then the third one second. Hey, it works for me. :)
On May 3, 10:53=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Given the fact that walls are not straight the measured angles could be
> thrown off for ceiling crown moldings but this jig may really be a plus f=
or
> getting fancy and adding moldings to furniture.
I agree. I think it would be pretty spiffy for that.
But the downside for them is how many would they sell if it were
marketed just to cabinet guys that made compound angle corners? Not
many I would think. Cabinet angles are usually a walk in the park
since the molding is small enough to nest in a small miter saw bed.
The other comment you made that I wholeheartedly agree with is how
much time those things could save you. If you don't install a lot of
crown, it is easy to get goofed up on your angles and positioning. I
think if you were doing a few rooms in your house and that was all you
really wanted to do, those things could really pay for themselves if
you didn't understand the "flip it upside down and backwards then
reverse the cut for the other side" explanation.
I have seen PILES of wasted trim with all manner of cuts on them while
some poor fellow is trying to figure out how to cut the complimentary
angle to the one he got right.
Robert
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> If you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem
>> as
>> long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set the
>> saw to that angle, what ever that angle is.
> Yes this was the same guy to. He does have an interesting product.
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Given the fact that walls are not straight the measured angles could be
thrown off for ceiling crown moldings but this jig may really be a plus for
getting fancy and adding moldings to furniture.
[email protected] wrote:
> In perfect world with perfect trim that goes into perfectly square
> rooms that have perfectly square corners, you don't need to cope.
... and you have perfectly even, well regulated temp/RH, like in
Pleasantville, USA.
> Or if you are like many that I know, 1/2" caulk relieves you of the
> responsibility of making a good joint.
>
> I always cope. Every single time.
Ditto ... have taught all my trim carpenters to cope, and which side to
do it on, and insist that do, although it seems a foreign concept to
south-of-the-border types as a rule.
If I find a mitered inside corner, and it won't be too damn expensive,
they *will* do it over again, all the while blaming it on the helper. :(
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show
>>in
>> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
>> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
>> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
>> blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
>> prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
>> looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like
>> I
>> was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to
>> cope
>> cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
>> crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
>> 4"crowns.
>> Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
>> use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
>> --
>> "You can lead them to LINUX
>> but you can't make them THINK"
>> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
>> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
>
> Was it this set up?
> http://www.cutncrown.com/index.php
>
> If you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem as
> long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set the
> saw to that angle, what ever that angle is.
>
The thing that would concern me is what happens when you nail it up... All
this "scientific" methodology assumes that the corner and walls stay the
same throughout the installation process. That isn't always the case as
drywall isn't always screwed tightly to the framing and ceiling joists and
the drywall tape may not lay tight in the corner and give. Insulation and
vapor barriers often result in some drywall give in exterior wall and
ceiling situations. With the cope joint if the "wall" moves the joint
doesn't open up during nailing. Will an end grain glue joint put up with
that, or do you end up with a chalk job?
Thoughts for discussion...
John
"Perry Aynum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am not a pro, but I've hung plenty of crown. I always find it easier to
>lay the crown flat on the miter saw, and then make a compound cut with the
>saw. It seems like there is always a chance of a small movement when the
>molding isn't flat.
When I started running crown, the compound miter saw had not been invented
yet. We used and still use the power miter box. It's all a matter of what
you are accustomed too.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut
>> > and
>> > Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
>> > different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your
> saw
>> > blade.
>
> Perhaps it was something along the lines of these?
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53807&cat=1,240,45313
>
> $40 is pretty expensive for what essentially amounts to 10 cents worth of
> moulded plastic. I guess if someone's crown moulding skills are challenged
> enough, they might spend the money, but damned if I would.
Expensive yes but not prohibitively so. I think the $40 would be recouped
quickly in time savings.
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in
> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
> blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
> prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
> looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like I
> was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to cope
> cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
> crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
> 4"crowns.
> Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
> use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
> --
> "You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK"
> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Was it this set up?
http://www.cutncrown.com/index.php
If you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem as
long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set the saw
to that angle, what ever that angle is.
RicodJour wrote:
> On May 3, 12:22Â pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have seen PILES of wasted trim with all manner of cuts on them while
>> some poor fellow is trying to figure out how to cut the complimentary
>> angle to the one he got right.
>
> I usually solve that problem by cutting the second one first. ;)
>
> R
Is that like when looking for something, going to the last place you are
going to look first and save the trouble of all the places in between?
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in
> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
> blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
> prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
> looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like I
> was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to cope
> cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
> crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
> 4"crowns.
I'm sure you've noticed that style over substance is what counts. It is
more important to have crown molding than to have a proper installation.
Granite countertops will sell a house faster than better framing that is
hidden by sheetrock. Why make things straight when they have such good
caulk on the market.
On May 3, 12:22=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> I have seen PILES of wasted trim with all manner of cuts on them while
> some poor fellow is trying to figure out how to cut the complimentary
> angle to the one he got right.
I usually solve that problem by cutting the second one first. ;)
R
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
> > Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
> > different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your
saw
> > blade.
Perhaps it was something along the lines of these?
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53807&cat=1,240,45313
$40 is pretty expensive for what essentially amounts to 10 cents worth of
moulded plastic. I guess if someone's crown moulding skills are challenged
enough, they might spend the money, but damned if I would.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut
>> > and
>> > Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
>> > different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your
> saw
>> > blade.
>
> Perhaps it was something along the lines of these?
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53807&cat=1,240,45313
>
> $40 is pretty expensive for what essentially amounts to 10 cents worth of
> moulded plastic. I guess if someone's crown moulding skills are challenged
> enough, they might spend the money, but damned if I would.
>
About 30 years ago, I wasted $40 worth of crown moulding learning how to cut
a coped joint. Since that time, it's been no problem. FWIW, I still have the
Rockwell Power Miterbox I learned on. My compound miter saw was a radial arm
saw. I still have it too. I seldom use either.
If I was contracting, I would have the CMS, but I don't have a use for one.
On May 3, 1:07=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Expensive yes but not prohibitively so. =A0I think the $40 would be rec=
ouped
> > quickly in time savings.
>
> Possibly, but who would buy one except a homeowner? And then, time isn't =
as
> important a factor. The contractors I know would die from embarrassment i=
f
> they were caught with one, at least they'd never admit using one.
>
> I guess if you're spatially challenged with crown moulding, then it would
> save money compared to what might be lost in wasted wood, but fortunately=
,
> that's not a problem I've ever had. There's no way in hell I'd ever be
> installing crown moulding anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.
This is what a number of contractors I know use. Good, clear write
up.
http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/collins_coping_foot.html
R
[email protected] wrote:
> In perfect world with perfect trim that goes into perfectly square
> rooms that have perfectly square corners, you don't need to cope.
>
> Or if you are like many that I know, 1/2" caulk relieves you of the
> responsibility of making a good joint.
>
> I always cope. Every single time.
>
> Robert
Yep and that's what Ive always done toooo. This guy selling this thing
looked at me like I was the enemy. Guess I was stepping on his sales, but
he sure had a group of sheep following his every move.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show
>>>in
>>> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
>>> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
>>> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your
>>> saw blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as
>>> a prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them
>>> together, looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got
>>> pissed off like I
>>> was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to
>>> cope
>>> cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide
>>> crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
>>> 4"crowns.
>>> Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope
>>> or use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
>>> --
>>> "You can lead them to LINUX
>>> but you can't make them THINK"
>>> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
>>> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
>>
>> Was it this set up?
>> http://www.cutncrown.com/index.php
>>
>> If you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem
>> as long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set
>> the saw to that angle, what ever that angle is.
>>
>
> The thing that would concern me is what happens when you nail it up... All
> this "scientific" methodology assumes that the corner and walls stay the
> same throughout the installation process. That isn't always the case as
> drywall isn't always screwed tightly to the framing and ceiling joists and
> the drywall tape may not lay tight in the corner and give. Insulation and
> vapor barriers often result in some drywall give in exterior wall and
> ceiling situations. With the cope joint if the "wall" moves the joint
> doesn't open up during nailing. Will an end grain glue joint put up with
> that, or do you end up with a chalk job?
>
> Thoughts for discussion...
>
> John
That was my concern to. He used a Super Glue and a accelerator spray. He
really didn't address the wall not being straight, drywall tape, joint
compound and etc.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Leon wrote:
>
> "evodawg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show
>>in
>> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
>> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
>> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
>> blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a
>> prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together,
>> looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like
>> I was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to
>> cope cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on
>> wide crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2
>> 4"crowns.
>> Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
>> use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
>> --
>> "You can lead them to LINUX
>> but you can't make them THINK"
>> Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
>> Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
>
> Was it this set up?
> http://www.cutncrown.com/index.php
>
> If you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem as
> long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set the
> saw to that angle, what ever that angle is.
Yes this was the same guy to. He does have an interesting product.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
[email protected] wrote:
> In perfect world with perfect trim that goes into perfectly square
> rooms that have perfectly square corners, you don't need to cope.
>
> Or if you are like many that I know, 1/2" caulk relieves you of the
> responsibility of making a good joint.
>
> I always cope. Every single time.
>
> Robert
>
I decided to try their "45* and glue-it" technique last time I did
crown. (*or whatever angle was half the corner)
It lasted two joints. On a ladder, with a nail gun in one hand, the
crown in the other, now I have to put CA glue on one end, spray the
accelerant onto the other end, hold perfectly in place and hope it
doesn't slip right before the cure.....
With coping, the coped piece can just pivot into the corner, and sort of
lock itself in place with the curves on the molding. With a good saw,
some stop blocks (or this: http://www.benchdog.com/crowncut.cfm ) and
sharp coping blades, you get real fast at cutting those joints perfectly.
I actually used the CA and accelerant for the few outside corner joints.
I previously would use hot glue, but the CA is thinner and doesn't
squeeze out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
> The thing that would concern me is what happens when you nail it up...
> All this "scientific" methodology assumes that the corner and walls stay
> the same throughout the installation process. That isn't always the case
> as drywall isn't always screwed tightly to the framing and ceiling
> joists and the drywall tape may not lay tight in the corner and give.
> Insulation and vapor barriers often result in some drywall give in
> exterior wall and ceiling situations. With the cope joint if the "wall"
> moves the joint doesn't open up during nailing. Will an end grain glue
> joint put up with that, or do you end up with a chalk job?
>
> Thoughts for discussion...
>
> John
>
Everything you wrote is accurate.
When was the last time you saw a drywall corner that could receive a
sharp 90 degree angle? With two 45's, you'll have to round off the
miter cuts on both pieces to keep from tearing the corner tape. And
like you said, I have yet to see a drywall corner that was
nailed/screwed all the way to the studs. It's also rare to find a
corner that doesn't ramp away from the wall from too much mud. All of
these problems can be addressed with coping.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
evodawg wrote:
> That was my concern to. He used a Super Glue and a accelerator spray. He
> really didn't address the wall not being straight, drywall tape, joint
> compound and etc.
I don't remember seeing any drywall in his display.
All, perfectly straight and plumb joints and corners.
I almost asked if he would take all his stuff down to another end of the
hotel where they were doing renovations so we could see the thing in
real world conditions.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
>> Perhaps it was something along the lines of these?
>> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53807&cat=1,240,45313
>>
>> $40 is pretty expensive for what essentially amounts to 10 cents worth of
>> moulded plastic. I guess if someone's crown moulding skills are challenged
>> enough, they might spend the money, but damned if I would.
>
>
> Expensive yes but not prohibitively so. I think the $40 would be recouped
> quickly in time savings.
>
I'd love to hear from anyone in here who has actually used this devise.
My first impression is, but the time I've perfectly lined up this devise
and clamped it to the molding, I'm 3/4 of the way through my back cut
with the coping saw.
But if it's really as awesome as they say, I'd like to hear about it.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
If you do a LOT of crown, this is a cool device:
http://www.copemaster.com/copemaster_main.html
although it is a little pricey.
but I have seen this demo on this tool and it
looks pretty cool also..
http://www.easycoper.com/
and it is a LOT cheaper....and more portable.
evodawg wrote:
> I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in
> Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and
> Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3
> different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw
> blade.
On Sat, 02 May 2009 20:14:33 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or
>use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?
We cut most crown upside down on some size of miter saw depending on
the size of the crown.
When running crowns on ceilings we'll always cope.
On cabinet tops we sometimes use miters since they can often be nailed
though the joint from the back side.
Also there are some installations where we might have lighting that
will be installed behind the crown. In those cases we usually have to
use miters since we can't have one piece run past the other either for
space requirements or shadows.
Mike O.
"Jim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "I asked him about coping and he got pissed..." funny! LOL..
Guess he couldn't cope with the question...