Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
months to play out.
Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
All thought and ruminations considered.
DLGlos
DLGlos wrote:
> Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
> order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
> Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
> have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
> Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
> sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
> the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
> months to play out.
>
> Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
> tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
> Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
> bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
> tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
> remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
> regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
> much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
> By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
> reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
>
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos
I've got the regular 8" Freud Dado and find it adequate for my needs. It
doesn't create anything close to a smooth bottom, but does not (or at least
not for me) tearout along the edges.
Mike
systematic's got some, too. I like my fine dado set. Just 2-tooth chippers,
though. It was around $160? At my local Woodcraft!
>Subject: Arrgh! No more Jesada Dado Blades
>From: DLGlos [email protected]
>Date: 10/07/2003 12:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
>dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
>order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
>Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
>have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
>Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
>sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
>the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
>months to play out.
>
>Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
>tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
>Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
>bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
>tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
>remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
>regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
>much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
>By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
>reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
>
>The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
>All thought and ruminations considered.
>
>DLGlos
Someday, it'll all be over....
Clint Neufeld wrote:
> Ron,
>
> How is your slot size "infinitely variable"? Do you make multiple passes
> with a small cutter? You don't find that more difficult than configuring a
> dado set to 23/32" and hacking away with that to cut a groove for undersized
> plywood?
>
> This is a serious question; I'm not try to cause problems. But I'm just in
> the process of getting comfortable with my new saw, and looking for guidance
> and direction. :)
>
> Clint
Various manufacturers make router bits designed for the "undersized" plywood.
Here's an example:
http://www.freud-tools.com/freudunplywd.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip102700wb.html
Simple ...cheap .... easy...
Clint Neufeld wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> How is your slot size "infinitely variable"? Do you make multiple passes
> with a small cutter? You don't find that more difficult than configuring a
> dado set to 23/32" and hacking away with that to cut a groove for undersized
> plywood?
>
"Ron Magen" <[email protected]> writes:
>Clint,
>Actually, a couple of readers have posted answers already.
>1} I do have a set of the 'undersized' bits . . . they should really be
>considered 'Metric' bits, because the plywood is either 'sized' for the
>Export market, or almost al the ply COMES from non-US sources. There are NO
>manufacturers of 'Marine Grade' ply left in the US.
I thought the real issue with most plywood is that the manufacturers are
making it 1/32" thinner to save money? Maybe marine plywood is different?
Brian Elfert
'DL',
The only 'Dado cutter' I have is one I got YEARS ago, with an old B&D {a
real piece of tin !}tabletop saw. It isn't even unwrapped.
When I need a 'slot' cut in plywood, or stock, my tool of choice is a
ROUTER - -
a) I can see what I'm doing & where I'm going
b) No 'changing set-ups'
c) Depending on the depth/width of the 'slot', I can use either my 'Trim
Router' or the 1/2 inch 'D' handle.
d) The 'slot size' is 'infinitely variable'
e) I can spend my money on other things
'Tear out' is simple to control. The slot width is marked with a 'score
line' from a utility knife
A 'straight edge guide' is made for the router, NOT for the bit - but for
the CENTER of the router/baseplate. It's then a simple matter to 'adjust'
for any specific bit. There are also a number of other methodologies for
setting up cutting guides. The bottom line is, the slot can be cut to the
*exact* width you want, and the bottom will probably be relatively smooth.
And, Yes . . . I am CHEAP !!
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, . . .Jesada rep telling me . .
. their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
SNIP
I'm not so worried about the bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I
am about minimizing tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood
plywood. . . .
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos
Clint,
Actually, a couple of readers have posted answers already.
1} I do have a set of the 'undersized' bits . . . they should really be
considered 'Metric' bits, because the plywood is either 'sized' for the
Export market, or almost al the ply COMES from non-US sources. There are NO
manufacturers of 'Marine Grade' ply left in the US.
2) There are various jigs & techniques to allow you to use a bit smaller
than the finished slot. Some will get you there in 'two cuts' {right side &
left side . . . you may actually have to make a couple of passes - depending
on the power of your router and the depth of the slot}. Others will have you
'sneak-up' on the final width.
There are a number of good books {'Router Magic' and 'Woodworking with the
Router' are two examples}available through your local library. Sometimes a
picture or a sketch can be worth pages of written words.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{PS: There are ALSO a lot of good books about Table Saws & jigs that give a
tremendous boost to YOUR efficiency}
"Clint Neufeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a_Ggb.39640$9l5.16962@pd7tw2no...
> Ron,
>
> How is your slot size "infinitely variable"? Do you make multiple passes
> with a small cutter? You don't find that more difficult than configuring
a
> dado set to 23/32" and hacking away with that to cut a groove for
undersized
> plywood?
>
> This is a serious question; I'm not try to cause problems. But I'm just
in
> the process of getting comfortable with my new saw, and looking for
guidance
> and direction. :)
>
> Clint
I use an 8" Amana set and I like it lot, although I am not sure about
difference in the price between it and Forrest today.
I've seen them lately for $149 - $189, which is almost $100 cheaper for the
same set than they were a couple of years back.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"DLGlos" wrote in message
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos
Ron,
How is your slot size "infinitely variable"? Do you make multiple passes
with a small cutter? You don't find that more difficult than configuring a
dado set to 23/32" and hacking away with that to cut a groove for undersized
plywood?
This is a serious question; I'm not try to cause problems. But I'm just in
the process of getting comfortable with my new saw, and looking for guidance
and direction. :)
Clint
"Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 'DL',
>
> The only 'Dado cutter' I have is one I got YEARS ago, with an old B&D {a
> real piece of tin !}tabletop saw. It isn't even unwrapped.
>
> When I need a 'slot' cut in plywood, or stock, my tool of choice is a
> ROUTER - -
> a) I can see what I'm doing & where I'm going
> b) No 'changing set-ups'
> c) Depending on the depth/width of the 'slot', I can use either my 'Trim
> Router' or the 1/2 inch 'D' handle.
> d) The 'slot size' is 'infinitely variable'
> e) I can spend my money on other things
>
> 'Tear out' is simple to control. The slot width is marked with a 'score
> line' from a utility knife
> A 'straight edge guide' is made for the router, NOT for the bit - but for
> the CENTER of the router/baseplate. It's then a simple matter to 'adjust'
> for any specific bit. There are also a number of other methodologies for
> setting up cutting guides. The bottom line is, the slot can be cut to the
> *exact* width you want, and the bottom will probably be relatively smooth.
>
> And, Yes . . . I am CHEAP !!
>
> Regards & Good Luck,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
>
> "DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> > dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, . . .Jesada rep telling me .
.
> . their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
> SNIP
> I'm not so worried about the bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as
I
> am about minimizing tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood
> plywood. . . .
> > The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
> >
> > All thought and ruminations considered.
> >
> > DLGlos
>
>
DLGlos <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
> order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
> Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
> have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
> Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
> sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
> the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
> months to play out.
>
> Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
> tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
> Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
> bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
> tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
> remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
> regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
> much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
> By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
> reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
>
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos
I have two 8" Jesada dado sets left in my store if you are still interested.
Scott
www.vmtw.com
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
> have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
Arg! Is right - I have the Jesada 8" and I like it. Oh well.
There is a simple jig you can build yourself in about 20 minutes that allows
you to use a standard straight bit and get any width dado you want. I
usually use the 1/2 bit. There are two "rails" about 1 1/2" wide, mounted on
a piece of plywood ( I made mine about 36" x 12". One rail is fixed while
the other slides left and right in slots made on both ends. Both rails are
set parallel to each other and run the length of the plywood base. If you
have a 6" base on your router then you slide the adjustable rail right or
left until the rails are 6" apart to make a 1/2 dado. If you want a wider
dado simply slide the rail over that much more than 1/2 " and pass the
router to and fro and bingo, perfectly sized dadoes every time with a set up
time of about 30 seconds! Of course there is a fence on the bottom of the
plywood that registers against the workpiece to keep the thing square and
the slot made in the plywood the first time you use the jig becomes the
reference line for putting the dado right where you want it.
Jim
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clint Neufeld wrote:
>
> > Ron,
> >
> > How is your slot size "infinitely variable"? Do you make multiple
passes
> > with a small cutter? You don't find that more difficult than
configuring a
> > dado set to 23/32" and hacking away with that to cut a groove for
undersized
> > plywood?
> >
> > This is a serious question; I'm not try to cause problems. But I'm just
in
> > the process of getting comfortable with my new saw, and looking for
guidance
> > and direction. :)
> >
> > Clint
>
> Various manufacturers make router bits designed for the "undersized"
plywood.
> Here's an example:
>
> http://www.freud-tools.com/freudunplywd.html
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
>
>
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 03:33:37 GMT, EmbErna <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>In early september (3rd) I ordered a jesada 8" dado
>blade from hartville tool, it's on their closeout item list.
>
>I notice they still have the units on closeout. When I ordered
>mine, the phone operator mentioned they had plenty (>40 i think).
>
>Go here and scroll to the bottom of the page to see the item.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/q4e5
>
>Pretty good deal too, 139.99
>
>good luck.
>mikey
Mikey,
You da man. Cheaper than ordering direct from Jesada, although, I
thought shipping was a bit steep ($11.95) plus I got hit with sales
tax for being in state.
Funny, I looked Hartville Tool up in Mapquest, and they are pretty
close to what used to be ":home country" for my mother-in-laws family.
Sadly, in the last 6 years, my wifes grandmother, and both of her
aunts passed away and there isn't much reason to visit that neck of
the woods anymore. I'm at the diametrically opposite end of the state,
in Cincinnati.
To the others that advocated router dados. For a lot of items they
make sense, but I just completed a three bay wide (total width, 35")
by three bay high (total hight, 48") open front locker for my kids. It
was the second real piece of furniture that I have built, and the
casework was high quality hardwood plywood. Built myself a crosscut
sled for my contractor saw and ran all the dados on that. With the big
crosscut sled and stop blocks, I was able to safety and precisely cut
many dados on the table saw in a very small amount of time. Took
almost as much time to set the wobble dado up to make the cuts.
My original plan was to use my router, but setup would have been far
trickier and time consuming on the 8 panels (some on two sides) that I
had to dado. Honestly, I think there is a place for both methods, but
on this job, and others that I will be doing soon, a proper dado
blade, crosscut sled and table saw make the most sense.
Thanks to all for the comments,
DLGlos
In early september (3rd) I ordered a jesada 8" dado
blade from hartville tool, it's on their closeout item list.
I notice they still have the units on closeout. When I ordered
mine, the phone operator mentioned they had plenty (>40 i think).
Go here and scroll to the bottom of the page to see the item.
http://tinyurl.com/q4e5
Pretty good deal too, 139.99
good luck.
mikey
DLGlos wrote:
> Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
> order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
> Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
> have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
> Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
> sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
> the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
> months to play out.
>
> Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
> tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
> Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
> bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
> tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
> remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
> regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
> much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
> By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
> reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
>
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos
You should be able to find equal or better quality at a price you like by
choosing from:
Forrest
Systematic
Freud
Amana
I have the Forrest and love it (does the price seem more reasonable when you
consider the value of less lumber that has been chipped out?), but have seen
the Systematic place a close second in magazine tests.
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just have to vent a little. After much searching for a quality stack
> dado to replace my crappy Delta 6" wobble, I finally placed a web
> order for the 6" Jesada last week. This morning I get a call from a
> Jesada rep telling me as of four weeks ago all of the 6" and 8" dados
> have been sold, and their Italian supplier (CMT???) has gone tits up.
> Currently they are debating to go with a slightly lower quality unit
> sourced out of the UK for similar dollars, or a higher quality unit in
> the price range of the Forrest. Either option will likely take a few
> months to play out.
>
> Now, I can't decide if I will cough for the 8" Freud Super Dado(4
> tooth chippers, $170 at Amazon), or cheap out and get the regular 8"
> Freud Dado (on sale at Rockler for $80). I'm not so worried about the
> bottom of the dado being baby butt smooth as I am about minimizing
> tearout along the edges; especially for hardwood plywood. If I
> remember correctly, the super has 24 tooth main cutters while the
> regular only has 20 tooth mains. I doubt the 4 missing teeth make that
> much of a difference if I'm careful to keep the feed rate reasonable.
> By definition, it does need to be square, although, that is one of the
> reasons I'm buying a stacked dado.
>
> The Forrest is out of contention simply due to dollar issues.
>
> All thought and ruminations considered.
>
> DLGlos