Hand saw sharpening jigs

I'm with you Steve, this is a perfect opportunity to buy something. I was
in pretty much the same situation a few years ago. My Dad passed away and
one of the many treasures I received were 6 brand new Disston saws that had
never been used, in fact I had to install the handles on them. Anyway, I
needed to learn what to do with them since I wanted to be able to use them,
but I didn't want to ruin them either. So, long story but here is what I
bought: A nice old saw vice (cool tool) - local auction for $5. BTW, I
screwed it to a piece of plywood then I clamp the plywood in my bench vice.
About 6 saw sets also at auction, no I didn't need 6 but I got carried
away - $3-$5 each. I didn't need files as I also inherited about 30 boxes
of brand new files in just about every assortment you could think of.
However, in your case I'd buy these new and not at an auction/estate
sale/etc. I enjoy the local auction scene (search for auctions and your
city to find them, most have web sites with pictures of upcoming auctions)
so I'm always looking for a new set of toys, er tools I need. I expect that
is the best place to buy handtools because "no one" wants them anymore.


"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:44:55 GMT, Steve Turner
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>but it looks like I should skip the jig and get the vise instead.
> >
> >
> > You need a saw vice, but there are several ways to make your own form
> > a couple of bits of plywood.
>
> Aren't you guys going to let me buy *anything*? :-) I still need to buy
> some files I guess. One of the saws appears to be a D8 with 10-point
> teeth. The other is an old Craftsman made by Disston, and its teeth are
> more coarse. File recommendations? I'd like to file one rip and one
> crosscut.
>
> > Some sizes of saw also fit into a Workmate.
>
> I have a Workmate; I'll try that.
>
> --
> To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.
>

Steve Turner wrote:

> Thanks David (and Andy). Lots of good information, and that's a great
> web page. Lee Valley has a saw vise, and I was going to pass on that
> and just get the jig, but it looks like I should skip the jig and get
> the vise instead.
>
> I don't know if I can stomach the piece of junk approach; there's
> nothing I like more than throwing pieces of junk as far as my arms are
> able, but I suppose I shouldn't ignore such good advice. :-)
>

YOu don't really need the jig or the vise. All you need is a piece of
wood with lines drawn on it at the angle you want to sharpen to and
clamp the saw blade dwon in a woodworkers vise.

If you want more info get Tom Law's video
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=61e6fd3b2b42c79f395dd2ff790dfde8&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=AQ-1019V&Category_Code=

The best thing to do is prctice on an old 5 or 7 point rip saw

Good luck
jw

Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<YLxjb.1133> Aren't you guys going to let me buy *anything*? :-) I still need to buy
> some files I guess. One of the saws appears to be a D8 with 10-point
> teeth. The other is an old Craftsman made by Disston, and its teeth are
> more coarse. File recommendations? I'd like to file one rip and one
> crosscut.

You should by Tom Law's video on sharpening. When you say file
recomendations do yoiu mean size or brand? The size is determined by
the tooth count. you cn get good files in all sizes from
toolsforworkingwood.com Call them, the owner, Joel, sharpens his own
saws and can give recomendations. You need to get a saw set as well.
Make sure to get one that is appropriate for the tooth count of your
saw.

jt

Andy Dingley wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:44:55 GMT, Steve Turner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>but it looks like I should skip the jig and get the vise instead.
>
>
> You need a saw vice, but there are several ways to make your own form
> a couple of bits of plywood.

Aren't you guys going to let me buy *anything*? :-) I still need to buy
some files I guess. One of the saws appears to be a D8 with 10-point
teeth. The other is an old Craftsman made by Disston, and its teeth are
more coarse. File recommendations? I'd like to file one rip and one
crosscut.

> Some sizes of saw also fit into a Workmate.

I have a Workmate; I'll try that.

--
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.

Thanks David (and Andy). Lots of good information, and that's a great web
page. Lee Valley has a saw vise, and I was going to pass on that and just get
the jig, but it looks like I should skip the jig and get the vise instead.

I don't know if I can stomach the piece of junk approach; there's nothing I
like more than throwing pieces of junk as far as my arms are able, but I
suppose I shouldn't ignore such good advice. :-)

As for the condition of the saws, the steel is in great shape (only minor
surface rust), but the teeth are a mess. It appears they've been sharpened
rather poorly on several occasions, with varying gaps and angles between the
teeth, and they definitely need to be jointed. I'll be following the
beginner's primer on vintagesaws.com rather closely before I tackle the task,
and I do have at least one piece of junk that I'll try not to throw away just
yet...

BTW, do you guys know where I can get the replacement fasteners (what do you
call 'em?) that fasten the handle to the blade?

Bannerstone wrote:
> I agree with Andy, practice on junk and get a piece of junk for each of the
> different types of saws you want to sharpen.
> Also an absolute must is the Beginner's Primer by Peter Tartan:
>
> http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html
>
> Peter doesn't really recommend jigs but does show how to make some simple
> blocks, similar to what Andy was suggesting, to help you see your file
> alignment. Also read about fleam angle, it may help you understand why a
> particular saw may be more difficult than another to get started in a cut but
> yields a smoother surface.
>
> David
>
>
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Andy Dingley says...
>
>>On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:54 GMT, Steve Turner
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any thoughts about which one is superior?
>>
>>The second (simpler) one - but I wouldn't use either.
>>
>>Saw filing is a quick and easy task, where the correct action is
>>important. So you need to learn this, then you'll be able to sharpen
>>freehand. In the meantime, you'll be making a mess of things.
>>
>>The solution is to practice on a piece-of-junk first until your action
>>is right, not to put your faith in jigs. Then afterwards you'll be
>>able to do it all freehand.
>>
>>It's most important that your teeth are even, not necessarily at the
>>perfect angle. This needs a smooth action between them; file-move,
>>file-move. Having to work a jig is too much of a slowdown and it
>>breaks the rhythm. You only need two strokes to sharpen a tooth (the
>>same on every tooth).
>>
>>If you need some angle guidance, then a simple solution is a small,
>>but wide wooden block in front of the blade. It doesn't have to touch
>>the file, just suggest the angle.
>>
>>
>>What are you doing here? Minor sharpening or re-cutting from a ruin?
>>
>>If you're re-cutting a saw, rather than sharpening it, then you may
>>need to work some teeth more than others, and cutting the angle from
>>scratch may need guidance rather than just following the old tooth.
>>
>>Similarly if you're working on a big tree-felling crosscut saw. A
>>tooth 1/2" across may take several strokes just to sharpen it.
>>
>>
>>There's also the cost of files. Hand-held files are cheaper. You don't
>>need a new file for every saw, but you should use a new edge (6 to a
>>file - it's hardly extravagant). Using files of about the right size
>>helps too, and most of these jigs only take one.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Has anyone used either one of these
>>>jigs?
>>
>>Used a couple of similar ones, not those.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
>
>

--
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.

I agree with Andy, practice on junk and get a piece of junk for each of the
different types of saws you want to sharpen.
Also an absolute must is the Beginner's Primer by Peter Tartan:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=sawcare&right=/library/primer/sharp.html

Peter doesn't really recommend jigs but does show how to make some simple
blocks, similar to what Andy was suggesting, to help you see your file
alignment. Also read about fleam angle, it may help you understand why a
particular saw may be more difficult than another to get started in a cut but
yields a smoother surface.

David



In article <[email protected]>, Andy Dingley says...
>
>On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:54 GMT, Steve Turner
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Any thoughts about which one is superior?
>
>The second (simpler) one - but I wouldn't use either.
>
>Saw filing is a quick and easy task, where the correct action is
>important. So you need to learn this, then you'll be able to sharpen
>freehand. In the meantime, you'll be making a mess of things.
>
>The solution is to practice on a piece-of-junk first until your action
>is right, not to put your faith in jigs. Then afterwards you'll be
>able to do it all freehand.
>
>It's most important that your teeth are even, not necessarily at the
>perfect angle. This needs a smooth action between them; file-move,
>file-move. Having to work a jig is too much of a slowdown and it
>breaks the rhythm. You only need two strokes to sharpen a tooth (the
>same on every tooth).
>
>If you need some angle guidance, then a simple solution is a small,
>but wide wooden block in front of the blade. It doesn't have to touch
>the file, just suggest the angle.
>
>
>What are you doing here? Minor sharpening or re-cutting from a ruin?
>
>If you're re-cutting a saw, rather than sharpening it, then you may
>need to work some teeth more than others, and cutting the angle from
>scratch may need guidance rather than just following the old tooth.
>
>Similarly if you're working on a big tree-felling crosscut saw. A
>tooth 1/2" across may take several strokes just to sharpen it.
>
>
>There's also the cost of files. Hand-held files are cheaper. You don't
>need a new file for every saw, but you should use a new edge (6 to a
>file - it's hardly extravagant). Using files of about the right size
>helps too, and most of these jigs only take one.
>
>
>>Has anyone used either one of these
>>jigs?
>
>Used a couple of similar ones, not those.
>
>
>--
>Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:47:54 GMT, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Any thoughts about which one is superior?

The second (simpler) one - but I wouldn't use either.

Saw filing is a quick and easy task, where the correct action is
important. So you need to learn this, then you'll be able to sharpen
freehand. In the meantime, you'll be making a mess of things.

The solution is to practice on a piece-of-junk first until your action
is right, not to put your faith in jigs. Then afterwards you'll be
able to do it all freehand.

It's most important that your teeth are even, not necessarily at the
perfect angle. This needs a smooth action between them; file-move,
file-move. Having to work a jig is too much of a slowdown and it
breaks the rhythm. You only need two strokes to sharpen a tooth (the
same on every tooth).

If you need some angle guidance, then a simple solution is a small,
but wide wooden block in front of the blade. It doesn't have to touch
the file, just suggest the angle.


What are you doing here? Minor sharpening or re-cutting from a ruin?

If you're re-cutting a saw, rather than sharpening it, then you may
need to work some teeth more than others, and cutting the angle from
scratch may need guidance rather than just following the old tooth.

Similarly if you're working on a big tree-felling crosscut saw. A
tooth 1/2" across may take several strokes just to sharpen it.


There's also the cost of files. Hand-held files are cheaper. You don't
need a new file for every saw, but you should use a new edge (6 to a
file - it's hardly extravagant). Using files of about the right size
helps too, and most of these jigs only take one.


>Has anyone used either one of these
>jigs?

Used a couple of similar ones, not those.


--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:17:28 GMT, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> You need a saw vice, but there are several ways to make your own form
>> a couple of bits of plywood.
>
>Aren't you guys going to let me buy *anything*? :-)

Who still makes saw vices ? Disstons are still in circulation, but
they generally eBay for the thick end of £50

>File recommendations?

Saw files. Double ended triangular things, sold as sawfiles. You need
a sawfile handle to hold them, usually supplied. I'd generally use an
8" for sharpening a panel saw - same files for both rip and crosscut.

>> Some sizes of saw also fit into a Workmate.
>
>I have a Workmate; I'll try that.

If you're stripping the saws down for derusting, you may also find
they fit the Workmate better before you put the handles back on.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:44:55 GMT, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:

>but it looks like I should skip the jig and get the vise instead.

You need a saw vice, but there are several ways to make your own form
a couple of bits of plywood.

Some sizes of saw also fit into a Workmate.
--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods