I drove forty-five minutes from my home in Napa to the Rockler store
in Pleasant Hill, CA with the sole purpose of buying the K-Body Kit
that was on sale for $99.99 for four hours only today. I arrived at
the store at 8 AM, granted this was one hour after the doors had
opened, to find three clerks standing behind the counter and one other
shopper in the store. I did a quick loop through the store and didn't
see any K-Body kits so I asked the clerks. They gave a slight chuckle
and said that they had sold out of their meager quantity of kits
within the first ten minutes after opening the door. I expressed my
disappointment but since they weren't offering rain checks there was
not much the clerks could do. I browsed around for few more minutes
and then approached the desk again- in the meantime they had taken a
phone call and turned away one other customer in the store for the
K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
as well. Well for me it just pissed me off and made me even more
likely to buy my woodworking supplies from on-line suppliers-
competitive pricing, often free shipping and rarely do I have to pay
sales tax. And because of my bad experience with Rockler's store it
will make me think twice before ordering anything from them on-line
when I can get the same or similar product from another supplier. I
told the clerks that if they continue to turn away customers empty
handed and upset then maybe Rockler should think twice before
participating in any more "manufacturer's" promotions such as this. I
should have bought some of the Jorgie cabinetmasters when Home Depot
was closing them out. Sigh. Out to the workshop for some therapy.
Dale
"Rob Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news
> When we run the sale in the new year - the inventory will be "bottomless",
> available by mail, but we won't be running it below cost...
>
> Cheers -
>
> Rob
Dooh! I was hoping you were going to offer to meet the Rockler deal to
please the masses. That and free shipping would go a long way to win
the public favor.
All in favor, say "aye"
laughingly,
Eric in MN (incidentally, a border state. Shipping would be minimal)
Hi Dale,
About a year ago, Rockler had an e-mail special of 50% off the 10 inch
Jorgensen cabinet clamps (wooden ones). They were selling them for
about $8 or so. I ordered 8 of them, within an hour, I got an e-mail
that they were all sold out.
This left me with a bad feeling for them & I never order anything from
them unless I can't find it anywhere else - which is seldom the case.
The good news (for you) is that Amazon currently has the 24/40 Bessey
on sale for $125 and you can apply the $25 off $125 coupon (check
around if you don't have one) & with free shipping, your net cost is
about $100. I bought this set at this price last week with no problem
about "running out of supply".
Good luck!
Lou
In article <[email protected]>, Dale
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I drove forty-five minutes from my home in Napa to the Rockler store
> in Pleasant Hill, CA with the sole purpose of buying the K-Body Kit
> that was on sale for $99.99 for four hours only today. I arrived at
> the store at 8 AM, granted this was one hour after the doors had
> opened, to find three clerks standing behind the counter and one other
> shopper in the store. I did a quick loop through the store and didn't
> see any K-Body kits so I asked the clerks. They gave a slight chuckle
> and said that they had sold out of their meager quantity of kits
> within the first ten minutes after opening the door. I expressed my
> disappointment but since they weren't offering rain checks there was
> not much the clerks could do. I browsed around for few more minutes
> and then approached the desk again- in the meantime they had taken a
> phone call and turned away one other customer in the store for the
> K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
> some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
> hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
> common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
> electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
> promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
> as well. Well for me it just pissed me off and made me even more
> likely to buy my woodworking supplies from on-line suppliers-
> competitive pricing, often free shipping and rarely do I have to pay
> sales tax. And because of my bad experience with Rockler's store it
> will make me think twice before ordering anything from them on-line
> when I can get the same or similar product from another supplier. I
> told the clerks that if they continue to turn away customers empty
> handed and upset then maybe Rockler should think twice before
> participating in any more "manufacturer's" promotions such as this. I
> should have bought some of the Jorgie cabinetmasters when Home Depot
> was closing them out. Sigh. Out to the workshop for some therapy.
>
> Dale
J wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>I kind of wonder about the "[email protected]" address though.
> Or the fact that it was posted from google...
This looks pretty legit to me, notwithstanding the Google post, and the
fact that [email protected] isn't listed on the net anywhere. First
of all, if you do a reverse lookup of the NNTP-Posting-Host
(12.40.187.194), which I believe is set by Google and not spoofable (or
at least not trivially so), you'll find it resolves to
"rocklercompaniesinc.com," which seems to have the same mailing address,
etc. as rockler.com, and to have been registered in 1995. So, if this
is a hoax, it's a very good one.
Of course, we won't know for sure until someone talks to their local
store and confirms this policy.
-BAT
I am with you; I can't figure out why the stores have these dumb sales that
only antagonize customers.
OTOH - I passed by a store yesterday about noon, and stopped in to see if
they had sold out their $270 computer/monitor/printer specials. It was
about $200 below the normal price, so I figured they all went in the first
10 minutes, but I got one!
[email protected] wrote:
> >> Ann Rockler Jackson
> >
> >Good response!
> >-Peter De Smidt
>
> I like it. Clear, to the point, gives a reasonable explanation and
> offers a solutions.
>
> Good Job Rockler!
I kind of wonder about the "[email protected]" address though.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Rob Lee wrote:
>
> When we run the sale in the new year - the inventory will be "bottomless",
> available by mail, but we won't be running it below cost...
>
> Cheers -
>
> Rob
>
And that's exactly the way to do it. The excuse that, "but that's what
everyone else is doing!" is a mistake. It is a prescription for
mediocrity. As a business, you should always try to exceed the
expectations of your customers. Setting them up for disappointment is a
very bad move.
-Peter De Smidt
Ann Rockler Jackson wrote:
> Hi Dale,
>
> I read your message, and those from our other customers, with great
> dismay. We seriously underestimated the quantity needed of the K-Body
> Bessey clamp for this promotion. Our purchasing department looked at
> the sales from our last K-body Bessey clamp promotion and tripled the
> order to make sure that we would have enough product on hand.
>
> Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some stores
> where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale. If you
> were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday who did
> not get a clamp, please contact your local store at 1-877-ROCKLER. We
> want to make this up to you and are trying to get some additional
> clamps in by December 15.
>
> I will personally make sure this never happens again.
>
> Happy Woodworking!
>
> Ann Rockler Jackson
Good response!
-Peter De Smidt
Dear Group,
Apparently a lot of unhappy customers this morning at the
Rockler stores around the country, according to the number of posts on
the rec. Here in Seattle, I was the first in line at opening at 7:00
am and made a bee line for the $99 Bessey clamp set advertized. There
was grand total of ............TWO........available. Within one
minute, I grabbed one and another fellow, the other. The third chap
was out of luck! I apologised to him and couldn't believe myself, that
there were only two. He was very gracious about it. I suggested he
demand that they give him the individual clamps off the rack and make
good on their offer. He smiled and said " I should"! I wouldn't have
been so tolerant, if the situation was reversed. Twenty sets seems
reasonable..........two appears downright fraudulant! I was one of the
lucky one's this morning, but had it not been for the few seconds
difference, I would have rightly been upset and dissapointed. Rockler
will, and should, receive some negative press from this ridiculous
oversight and hopefully, ..........get their act together!
Thanks,
Michael
Think about it for a moment...why would Bessey mark the products down to
less than cost if they didn't have anything else featured? I doubt it was
Bessey's promotion.
I think someone else hit it right on the head when he said it was a loss
leader for the specific purpose of generating store traffic. The clerks at
the Pleasant Hill store probably just didn't want to catch the flak so they
passed the buck.
Rockler has a web site at http://www.rockler.com. It has their customer
service email address, the toll-free phone number and the snail mail
address. Contact corporate management and complain.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
> > some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
> > hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
> > shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
> > Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
> > to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
> > common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
> > electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
> > promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
> > suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
> > as well.
>
>
> I did not see the original promo, but most qualify "limited supplies" or
> some such way to weasle out. Some even mention "25 per store" or
whatever.
> Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I'm old enough to know that is
> is a promo, supplies may truly be limited and if they are gone, they are
> gone forever. If I get one, I get a bargain.
>
> If Bessey provided a limited number, you can't blame Rockler for bad
> planning can you? They had a good deal and they advertised it (they
should
> have mentioned limitged quantities. Did they?). To me, that is not
shifting
> blame but telling the truth. None of these store can stay in business
> selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free lunch, you know
you
> have to pay for it somehow.
> Ed
>
>
Chuck Hoffman responds:
>Think about it for a moment...why would Bessey mark the products down to
>less than cost if they didn't have anything else featured? I doubt it was
>Bessey's promotion.
From my short experience in the woodworking retail world, I'd guess it was
Bessey's promotion, brought on by pressure from its retailers. Often, such
sales cycle through major retailers, taking place at one corporate entity one
month and at another the next month. The stores love 'em because they bring
bodies in, and any pissy feelings disappear in relatively short periods of
time.
Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken
On 27 Nov 2004 12:54:31 -0800, [email protected] (Dale)
wrote:
Sad story snipped...
I quit dealing with Rockler after they screwed me not once, but twice,
on Internet orders. The first was minor, only a dollar "price
increase" on an item that they said they would refund. Never
happened. These second involved a "15% off" promo that failed to work
out. So to hell with them.
But on the subject, I've made friends with a car salesman at a local
family-owned new car dealership. Been in business 80 years and the
owner is a pillar of the community. My friend told me that they will
advertise a car at a super low price and in order to comply with
advertising regulations, they do have one such car. It's usually a
puky color, doesn't have a radio and is a three-speed manual tranny.
In other words, something no one wants. But they *do have one for
sale* and they will sell it although the obvious tactic is to sell a
different car.
Our state Attorney Genenerl has filed suit against a different dealer
for one of its scams, however.
And on a closing note, the local blue borg has been kicked out of the
BBB.
Hi Dale,
I read your message, and those from our other customers, with great
dismay. We seriously underestimated the quantity needed of the K-Body
Bessey clamp for this promotion. Our purchasing department looked at
the sales from our last K-body Bessey clamp promotion and tripled the
order to make sure that we would have enough product on hand.
Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some stores
where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale. If you
were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday who did
not get a clamp, please contact your local store at 1-877-ROCKLER. We
want to make this up to you and are trying to get some additional
clamps in by December 15.
I will personally make sure this never happens again.
Happy Woodworking!
Ann Rockler Jackson
I wrote an email to their customer service explaining that I drove for an
hour and a half, waited in line and then had an employee be rude to me. It
has been a week with no response.
max
> Ann Rockler Jackson wrote:
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>> I read your message, and those from our other customers, with great
>> dismay. We seriously underestimated the quantity needed of the K-Body
>> Bessey clamp for this promotion. Our purchasing department looked at
>> the sales from our last K-body Bessey clamp promotion and tripled the
>> order to make sure that we would have enough product on hand.
>>
>> Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some stores
>> where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale. If you
>> were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday who did
>> not get a clamp, please contact your local store at 1-877-ROCKLER. We
>> want to make this up to you and are trying to get some additional
>> clamps in by December 15.
>>
>> I will personally make sure this never happens again.
>>
>> Happy Woodworking!
>>
>> Ann Rockler Jackson
>
> Good response!
> -Peter De Smidt
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>
>> If Bessey provided a limited number, you can't blame Rockler for bad
>> planning can you? They had a good deal and they advertised it (they
>> should have mentioned limitged quantities. Did they?). To me, that is
>> not shifting blame but telling the truth. None of these store can stay
>> in business selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free
>> lunch, you know you have to pay for it somehow.
>> Ed
>
> Just looked at my orignial e-mail for the sale and it just says "while
> quantities last".
--
Paul O.
[email protected]
"Dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> They
> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
> common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
> electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
> promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
> as well.
<snip>
>
> Dale
Dale -
I don't believe Bessey is to blame here...we have a similar offer from
Bessey, and will be running a promotion as well. From what I can see - it
appears that Rockler sold below their cost to draw people into the
stores.... which would explain the apparently limited stock, and the
availability in-store only (these are HEAVY, and expensive to ship by mail).
When we run the sale in the new year - the inventory will be "bottomless",
available by mail, but we won't be running it below cost...
Cheers -
Rob
"Ann Rockler Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some stores
> where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale. If you
> were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday who did
> not get a clamp, please contact your local store at 1-877-ROCKLER. We
> want to make this up to you and are trying to get some additional
> clamps in by December 15.
>
> I will personally make sure this never happens again.
I am wondering why the store manager did not have the foresight to recommend
ordering the clamps for the customers that missed out instead of letting the
situation get out of hand in HIS store. Are the store managers limits of
authority a bit too limited???
[email protected] (Dale) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
The Pleasant Hill store got 11 sets of clamps, and had no say in how many
they could offer - they were sent all that corporate allocated.
They could have sold 100 sets, without a problem, before noon.
Patriarch,
who spends a fair amount of cash there, but sought no more clamps today.
Hinges, plugs, a Forstner bit, a package of sanding disks, etc....
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Ann Rockler Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some
>> stores where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale.
>> If you were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday
>> who did not get a clamp, please contact your local store at
>> 1-877-ROCKLER. We want to make this up to you and are trying to get
>> some additional clamps in by December 15.
>>
>> I will personally make sure this never happens again.
>
>
> I am wondering why the store manager did not have the foresight to
> recommend ordering the clamps for the customers that missed out
> instead of letting the situation get out of hand in HIS store. Are
> the store managers limits of authority a bit too limited???
>
They are. But it's a far flung organization, in specialty retail, and
that's not at all unusual.
Purchasing and stock levels are pretty tightly centrally controlled.
Patriarch
[email protected] (Dale) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I drove forty-five minutes from my home in Napa to the Rockler store
> in Pleasant Hill, CA with the sole purpose of buying the K-Body Kit
> that was on sale for $99.99 for four hours only today. I arrived at
> the store at 8 AM,
My Bessy kit arrived Thursday from Amazon for $105.87 and is now proudly
hung upon my scrap beech clamp rack.
Alan
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> The problem is that they are annoying people who are potentially their
> best customers. You can argue whether this is unreasonable or not on
> the customers' part, but that's the bottom line.
As I stated, I've seen this type of promo enough that my expectations are
low. So low I'd not get out of bed early for any of them.
>
> If you know you can't
> meet demand for more than the first 15 minutes and you don't make a
> big point of telling your customers how small your stock is and that
> there will be no rain checks, then you're asking for trouble and
> you're going to get it.
Sure, but how many times have you seen "free T-shirts for the first 25
customers" or the like. Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't get excited and
expect to get the free shirt.
> You sure as heck can. In fact most customers are going to blame
> Rockler, not Bessey, and with a great deal of justification because
> Rockler set themselves up to be blamed.
How? They said while supplies last. They did not last long. Plan on being
in line early for the real bargains. An Ikea store opened in CT a few weeks
ago. People were in line the night before to get the freebies.
>
> There's also a matter of marketing strategy here. The purpose of the
> promotion is to pull people into the store, but not all the company's
> stores need the promotion equally. In a case like this you're supposed
> to think strategically and allocate the supply of the product to those
> stores where it can make the most difference. In other words, not all
> stores run the promotion, but the ones that do have enough to last for
> at least a few hours.
You just piss of different people at different locations. If you were a
store manager, you'd want your share of the promo items, as would your
customers.
>
>> None of these store can stay in business
>>selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free lunch, you know
>>you
>>have to pay for it somehow.
>
> Actually Ed, there's an entire industry that makes a practice of
> selling merchandise below cost.
> It's the grocery business.
Not every item at every time. Somewhere along the line you are paying for
the bargfain. Sure, you can just grab the deals and head to the next store,
but as long as you continue to eat and b uy food, you pay for it along the
way. If you don't, your neighbors are.
Those real
> low prices you see on specials in the grocery stores week after week
> include loss leaders, a fair number of which are actually being sold
> below cost. (Either by the producer or the retailer, depending.) The
> trick, of course, is that they make it up on other items they know
> you're likely to buy. Woodworking stores can do the same thing.
Rockler did just that. Woodcrarft has monthy specials but I don't know that
they are "loos leaders", just a discount.
>
> Of course making the strategy work requires some marketing
> intelligence. Just getting a good deal on a popular product from the
> manufacturer and spreading the available supply equally to all stores
> doesn't.
You mean they should have more of the bargains where you shop? I don't
necessarily agree. Distribution should be either equal for every store, or
pro-rated on store volume, but every store should have some minimum.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
>> some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
>> hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
>> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
>> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
>> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
>> common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
>> electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
>> promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
>> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
>> as well.
>
>
> I did not see the original promo, but most qualify "limited supplies" or
> some such way to weasle out. Some even mention "25 per store" or
> whatever. Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I'm old enough to
> know that is is a promo, supplies may truly be limited and if they are
> gone, they are gone forever. If I get one, I get a bargain.
>
> If Bessey provided a limited number, you can't blame Rockler for bad
> planning can you? They had a good deal and they advertised it (they
> should have mentioned limitged quantities. Did they?). To me, that is not
> shifting blame but telling the truth. None of these store can stay in
> business selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free lunch,
> you know you have to pay for it somehow.
> Ed
I'm witchya on this one, Ed. The stores are very careful to advertise
"limited quantities" or "only 10 per store" so the alert customer will know
that early arrival is required. I once camped out next to the door of a
CompUSA to get a free (386) computer with purchase of another one. I was
third in line, and the manager came out just before opening to ask each of
the standees what promo they were going for. He then gave a purchase
authorization slip to each one in order until they ran out.
I appreciate the disappointment of the OP, and the OP of an earlier post,
but really can't blame the store or the chain for this one.
Bob
"Dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
> some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
> hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
> common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
> electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
> promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
> as well.
I did not see the original promo, but most qualify "limited supplies" or
some such way to weasle out. Some even mention "25 per store" or whatever.
Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I'm old enough to know that is
is a promo, supplies may truly be limited and if they are gone, they are
gone forever. If I get one, I get a bargain.
If Bessey provided a limited number, you can't blame Rockler for bad
planning can you? They had a good deal and they advertised it (they should
have mentioned limitged quantities. Did they?). To me, that is not shifting
blame but telling the truth. None of these store can stay in business
selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free lunch, you know you
have to pay for it somehow.
Ed
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >> Ann Rockler Jackson
> > >
> > >Good response!
> > >-Peter De Smidt
> >
> > I like it. Clear, to the point, gives a reasonable explanation and
> > offers a solutions.
> >
> > Good Job Rockler!
>
> I kind of wonder about the "[email protected]" address though.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Or the fact that it was posted from google...
Path:
<deleted>!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.218.7.1
41!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!not-for-mail
-j
loutent <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<271120041758298297%[email protected]>...
>
> The good news (for you) is that Amazon currently has the 24/40 Bessey
> on sale for $125 and you can apply the $25 off $125 coupon (check
> around if you don't have one) & with free shipping, your net cost is
> about $100. I bought this set at this price last week with no problem
> about "running out of supply".
>
I called amazon and had them price match Rockler, I also get free
shipping and the total was 105.87.
Alan
[email protected] (Dale) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I drove forty-five minutes from my home in Napa to the Rockler store...
> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
> as well. Well for me it just pissed me off and made me even more
> likely to buy my woodworking supplies from on-line suppliers-
> competitive pricing, often free shipping and rarely do I have to pay
> sales tax. And because of my bad experience with Rockler's store it
> will make me think twice before ordering anything from them on-line
> when I can get the same or similar product from another supplier.
SO TRUE. We don't have to play that game. Search online. Save gas.
Even paying shipping, you can get a better deal on service and
selection. Large corporations do not change unless forced by MONEY
ISSUES, it's all they care about. Refusing to buy is the only way to
send feedback they listen to.
I began tearing up Rockler flyers after I got sucked in a couple of
times too many. They play this game a lot, it's not just Bessey,
blaming their co-conspirators doesn't affect YOUR bottom line: you
wasted time, hope and gasoline. The idea appears to be that buyers
will forget the disappointment if they buy something else, especially
after driving a long way. We're being played for suckers.
In the last four years, there has not been one thing I needed from
Rockler I didn't get more easily from Lee Valley. And often cheaper
too. Hooray for having stuff brought right to your door.
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:03:38 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Dale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> K-body kit. I mentioned to the clerks that if they could pass along
>> some info to their manager that I was very disppointed that they
>> hadn't planned well and should have had more stock on hand. They
>> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
>> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
>> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
>> common tactic these days, not just in the woodworking field but in
>> electronics and other sectors as well- i.e. offer a special limited
>> promotion with a limited number of units to sell at a great price to
>> suck people into the stores thinking they will buy other merchandise
>> as well.
>
>
>I did not see the original promo, but most qualify "limited supplies" or
>some such way to weasle out. Some even mention "25 per store" or whatever.
>Personally, I don't see a problem with it.
The problem is that they are annoying people who are potentially their
best customers. You can argue whether this is unreasonable or not on
the customers' part, but that's the bottom line.
Personally I'd argue that if you've only got extremely limited
quantities available, it is not unreasonable for the customers to be
annoyed. The key here is 'extremely limited.' If you know you can't
meet demand for more than the first 15 minutes and you don't make a
big point of telling your customers how small your stock is and that
there will be no rain checks, then you're asking for trouble and
you're going to get it.
> I'm old enough to know that is
>is a promo, supplies may truly be limited and if they are gone, they are
>gone forever. If I get one, I get a bargain.
>
>If Bessey provided a limited number, you can't blame Rockler for bad
>planning can you?
You sure as heck can. In fact most customers are going to blame
Rockler, not Bessey, and with a great deal of justification because
Rockler set themselves up to be blamed.
> They had a good deal and they advertised it (they should
>have mentioned limitged quantities. Did they?). To me, that is not shifting
>blame but telling the truth.
It may in fact be true, but Rocklet still created a problem for
themselves by advertising an item without pointing out with great
emphasis that the stock was so limited it would be gone within
minutes.
There's also a matter of marketing strategy here. The purpose of the
promotion is to pull people into the store, but not all the company's
stores need the promotion equally. In a case like this you're supposed
to think strategically and allocate the supply of the product to those
stores where it can make the most difference. In other words, not all
stores run the promotion, but the ones that do have enough to last for
at least a few hours.
> None of these store can stay in business
>selling merchandise below cost. When they offer a free lunch, you know you
>have to pay for it somehow.
Actually Ed, there's an entire industry that makes a practice of
selling merchandise below cost. It's the grocery business. Those real
low prices you see on specials in the grocery stores week after week
include loss leaders, a fair number of which are actually being sold
below cost. (Either by the producer or the retailer, depending.) The
trick, of course, is that they make it up on other items they know
you're likely to buy. Woodworking stores can do the same thing.
Of course making the strategy work requires some marketing
intelligence. Just getting a good deal on a popular product from the
manufacturer and spreading the available supply equally to all stores
doesn't.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
rcook responds:
>Actually Ed, there's an entire industry that makes a practice of
>selling merchandise below cost. It's the grocery business. Those real
>low prices you see on specials in the grocery stores week after week
>include loss leaders, a fair number of which are actually being sold
>below cost. (Either by the producer or the retailer, depending.) The
>trick, of course, is that they make it up on other items they know
>you're likely to buy. Woodworking stores can do the same thing.
>
>Of course making the strategy work requires some marketing
>intelligence. Just getting a good deal on a popular product from the
>manufacturer and spreading the available supply equally to all stores
>doesn't.
I'll agree with that. The aim is fairness, I guess, but the effect is stupid.
Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken
Ba r r y <[email protected]> writes:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:42:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night before?
>>I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low availability",
>>especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
>Retail employees often get better pricing than ANY public sale, all
>the time. <G> No need to pick the day before.
I worked at CompUSA years ago and we could buy at cost.
I don't know about today, but HP laser printers then were sold at or below
cost pretty much all the time to the public. It was at times cheaper to
buy stuff at retail than buy as an employee.
I seem to recall we were not allowed to buy loss leaders at any of our
sales, although friends and family members certainly could.
Brian Elfert
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:42:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night before?
>I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low availability",
>especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
Retail employees often get better pricing than ANY public sale, all
the time. <G> No need to pick the day before.
This is the primary reason for many people to take part-time jobs at
places like Rockler, Woodcraft, REI, EMS, etc... I work 3-6 hours a
week in a local bicycle shop for the simple reason of getting my gear
and clothing at incredible prices. In fact, I often can buy my bikes
for _less_ than the store does, directly from the manufacturer, via
pro sponsorship deals. I am limited to how many I can buy each year
and they have to be my size.
The only exceptions I know about are BORGS. Due to employees
reselling merchandise, the stores in my area have "employee purchase
days" 2-4 times a year.
One of the part timers at my local Woodcraft works at the millwork
shop where I buy my wood. A few hours at the store saves him a ton on
tools and supplies for his personal work.
Barry
"Ba r r y" wrote in message
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:42:40 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:
>
>
> >Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night
before?
> >I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low
availability",
> >especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
>
> Retail employees often get better pricing than ANY public sale, all
> the time. <G> No need to pick the day before.
Agreed ... but with 'smart' POS terminals, indexed to inventory, some
'special sales items' can't even be rung up at the sale price until a
certain date/time. I know for a fact that is often abused in favor of store
employees, who can always "get there first".
As I implied, maybe these woodworking stores should take a hint from HOOTERS
... at least disgruntled latecomers would have something else to think
about. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> I'll agree with that. The aim is fairness, I guess, but the effect is
stupid.
Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night before?
I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low availability",
especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
It's not like these stores hire topless dancers who don't need "more
clamps".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
Swingman responds:
>
>"Charlie Self" wrote in message
>
>> I'll agree with that. The aim is fairness, I guess, but the effect is
>stupid.
>
>Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night before?
>I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low availability",
>especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
>
>It's not like these stores hire topless dancers who don't need "more
>clamps"
No comment. I really don't know how store employees wanting sale product are
handled at any of these chains, but I do know that Woodcraft, not my favorite
company, offers an excellent discount program for corporate employees, so
there's no need for sales most of the time.
Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:42:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Charlie Self" wrote in message
>
>> I'll agree with that. The aim is fairness, I guess, but the effect is
>stupid.
>
>Makes you wonder just how many "employee's" got first pick the night before?
>I'd be willing to bet that is the reason for much of the "low availability",
>especially when you see number like only two in stock for the sale.
>
>It's not like these stores hire topless dancers who don't need "more
>clamps".
Odds are none of them got first pick. Management is obviously going
to have a say in any given store, but a few years ago when moving from
Minnesota to Wisconsin, I worked for a couple of weeks at the local
K-mart while looking for a better job. The second week I was there
was during the "Black Friday" promotions, and employees were not
allowed to purchase anything that was on the 3-hour sale (or whatever
the time length was) They pulled the same crap as anywhere, of course-
most of the good sales were stocked in quantities like 5 or 10, and
were sold out within minutes- but it wasn't because employees were
taking them home.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"ToolMiser" wrote in message ...
> I'm a former Walmart employee (8 years-sentence over), and we were never
given
> any beforehand options to purchase items. We were told to have spouses or
> others show up just like the general public. ( I wouldn't ask an enemy to
go
> into a battlegrounds like that).
I wouldn't call Wal-Mart and Kmart "typical" retail outlets, until the past
few years. I know for a fact that we did it at Sears a good many years ago,
and although I find it difficult to believe that things have actually become
more ethical and kinder since then, times do change, sometimes even for the
better it appears. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 08:05:39 -0700, Wes Stewart <n7ws_@_yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 27 Nov 2004 12:54:31 -0800, [email protected] (Dale)
>wrote:
>
>
>Sad story snipped...
>
>
>But on the subject, I've made friends with a car salesman at a local
>family-owned new car dealership. Been in business 80 years and the
>owner is a pillar of the community. My friend told me that they will
>advertise a car at a super low price and in order to comply with
>advertising regulations, they do have one such car. It's usually a
>puky color, doesn't have a radio and is a three-speed manual tranny.
>In other words, something no one wants. But they *do have one for
>sale* and they will sell it although the obvious tactic is to sell a
>different car.
>
Seems like that skirts the hairy edge of "bait and switch".
>Our state Attorney Genenerl has filed suit against a different dealer
>for one of its scams, however.
>
>And on a closing note, the local blue borg has been kicked out of the
>BBB.
Any commentary on why?
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:38:07 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am with you; I can't figure out why the stores have these dumb sales that
>only antagonize customers.
Maybe several people need to point out to them -- forcefully -- that
they are antagonizing customers -- and potentially their best
customers.
If the corporate offices hear it from several sources in different
parts of the country, they may listen and make some sort of
adjustment.
If it comes directly from you rather than being passed on by store
personnel it is likely to have a large effect. My wife was an
assistant manager for a fabric/crafts store for a number of years and
she quickly discovered that management was much more willing to listen
to suggestions from customers than they were from their own employees.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
Dale wrote:
Lots of word the stores should read and digest!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Badger adds:
Thats whats known as a loss leader, its only function is to get bodies
through the doors, a bit like the January sale at Harrods, a few VERY
desireable items as much less than cost, loads marked down to average
price elseware (so still a good margin)....
Niel (Badger).
I have to agree that this is standard practice at most stores--advertise
something for an extremely low price, then have only a few of them on hand.
Best Buy, Fry's, Microcenter, you name it. I'm not surprised Rockler did
the same thing.
The only time I can recall when a store did not pull one of these stunts was
when Meijer opened a new store in my area. They had Playstations and
Xbox'es advertised for $100. I expected they would have a dozen at best and
that I would have to hunt down an employee to unlock a cabinet. But they
had several PALLETS stacked waist high in the middle of the aisle. Help
yourself. I couldn't believe my eyes. As far as I know, they had stock for
the entire week of the sale.
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:07:31 -0600, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:
>Ann Rockler Jackson wrote:
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>> I read your message, and those from our other customers, with great
>> dismay. We seriously underestimated the quantity needed of the K-Body
>> Bessey clamp for this promotion. Our purchasing department looked at
>> the sales from our last K-body Bessey clamp promotion and tripled the
>> order to make sure that we would have enough product on hand.
>>
>> Unfortunately, this was not adequate stock - especially at some stores
>> where we sold more clamps than anticipated prior to the sale. If you
>> were one of the customers at our store at 7:00 AM on Saturday who did
>> not get a clamp, please contact your local store at 1-877-ROCKLER. We
>> want to make this up to you and are trying to get some additional
>> clamps in by December 15.
>>
>> I will personally make sure this never happens again.
>>
>> Happy Woodworking!
>>
>> Ann Rockler Jackson
>
>Good response!
>-Peter De Smidt
I like it. Clear, to the point, gives a reasonable explanation and
offers a solutions.
Good Job Rockler!
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Dale) wrote:
> They
> shifted the blame saying it was a manufacturer's promotion and that
> Bessey had only supplied the whole chain with a limited amount of kits
> to sell so after they were gone that was it. It seems that this is a
> common tactic these days
Same thing happened last year with a Jorgensen clamp promotion and
Woodcraft:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=ISO-8859-1&threadm
=tah3pv0lb15jc8gf5b4alt7f94laem78ps%404ax.com&rnum=12&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D
bessey%2Bsale%2Brockler%2BOR%2Bwoodcraft%2Bgroup:rec.woodworking%26hl%3De
n%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DISO-8859-1%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D1%26as
_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D2003%26as_maxd%3D28%26as_maxm%3D11%26as_maxy%3D2004
%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN>
Just to add my 2cents, I'd be pissed too. It would also sour me to that
retailer for a long time. Writing Ann Jackson Rockler or whoever's in
charge at Rockler these days would be the way to properly vent your
dissatisfaction.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long