I know almost nothing about woodworking.
I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
books on a shelf.
I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
of attaching shelves will work:
I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
I'm sure there is a term for this.
A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
|
==========|
V|
Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
Robert.
Robert,
In addition to all the good advice you've gotten so far, I will add
that if you plan to stain your project, you will want to be careful
about getting glue all over the place. The glue prevents the stain from
penetrating the wood, so anywhere you get stray glue drips or
fingerprints will stand out like a sore thumb after you stain the wood
(which I recommend for I think wood looks much nicer stained).
After the glue dries, you can "carve" it off with a sharp chisel or
sand it off (this gets difficult and time-consuming in corners).
Alternately, you can use a wet rag to scrub off the glue while it is
still wet, but I have had mixed results with this method -- sometimes
it works, sometimes it makes the problem worse. If I use a wet rag, I
would really try to scrub every bit of extra glue off quickly and then
let everything dry 24 hrs, and just try to get rid of any remaining
glue before you finish sanding.
Sanding: You'll probably want to start with 80 grit (60 if it's really
rough wood), then use 120 grit (100 grit if your first sanding was with
60), then 150. You could also finish sand with 220 grit right before
staining and finishing. It's important not to "skip" grit sizes here,
because each approximate grit size is needed to remove scratches
produced by the previous grit size.
I would not try to skimp on the finishing details, or you will kick
yourself later. A nice finish makes the entire project immensely more
satisfying and pleasing to the eye.
Good luck.
Sat, Mar 1, 2008, 11:49am (EST-3) [email protected] doth sayeth:
(Robert=A0the=A0Bearded)
<snip> I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2
<snip>
You do NOT need epoxy, or Gorilla Glue. Get a regular woodworking
glue. My personal prefeence is Titebond II.
JOAT
10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President - Bumper Sticker
I do not have a problem with a woman president - except for Hillary.
On Mar 1, 3:47=A0pm, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>
> >I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
> >around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
> >sags. =A0I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
> >books on a shelf.
>
> >I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
> >of attaching shelves will work:
>
> >I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
> >board where I will want a shelf. =A0Then the shelf will rest on these.
> >I'm sure there is =A0a term for this.
>
> >A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0V|
>
> >Will this work? =A0I'm planning on 24" spans.
>
> >Robert.
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> You have received many good tips already, but I will add a
> few thoughts:
>
> Someone suggested that you make sure things are square, and
> that is certainly important, but I would add that you will
> want to be sure that things stay square. To do that, you
> might want to attach everything to a back board (probably
> plywood) that you know is rectangular. It is easy for the
> sort of shelving you want to build to "rack", that is, to
> become a parallelogram, rather than the rectangle you want.
>
> Also, it was suggested that you will need clamps to do the
> gluing. That would certainly work, but you might be better
> off putting glue (one brand to consider is TiteBond) on the
> surfaces you want to connect, and then drawing the joints
> together with screws. With that approach you will have very
> strong joints, and you can avoid the expense of the clamps.
>
> Have fun with your project,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Thanks for all the answers and help.
I want adequate strength in the glue joint, so I like the idea of
using screws to hold the joint. I'm using pine; will I have to
predrill the wood to do this?
What I am planning is to use pine 1x12's for the sides, glue and screw
the 1x2 supports on and then assemble the two sides with two 1x2s
nailed and glued at the bottom with the bottom shelf glued onto both
the sides and the 1x2s.
Textart of the bottom x-section, bottom shelf glued on top of this:
|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|
| |
|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|
and then a similar thing at the top.
I was planning on using 1x12s for the shelves too, but based on the
sagulator link, might use something thinner with a beam.
When you say that everything should be attached to the backboard, will
nailing work?
Thanks,
Robert.
On Mar 1, 1:49=A0pm, Robert the Bearded <[email protected]> wrote:
> I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>
> I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
> around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
> sags. =A0I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
> books on a shelf.
>
> I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
> of attaching shelves will work:
>
> I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
> board where I will want a shelf. =A0Then the shelf will rest on these.
> I'm sure there is =A0a term for this.
>
> A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0|
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 V|
>
> Will this work? =A0I'm planning on 24" spans.
>
> Robert.
What type of wood are you planning on using?
What you are suggesting will work fo shelf supports, you will need
clamps for the glue and regular wood glue will work.
I would use scress instead of nails.
How are you attaching to shelf to the support? Same method?
What tpe finsh are you planning on using?
Just make sure everything is Square,
Randy
http://nokeswoodworks.com
Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Heavier books should be set on the bottom.
Be sure to make the bottom shelves taller, as your taller books also tend
to be some of the heaviest.
We've got several bookshelves made of 1x12 pine. The screws are simply
driven through the side supports in to the shelves. They look decent,
and hold an awful lot of books.
Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Mar 1, 2:49 pm, Robert the Bearded <[email protected]> wrote:
> I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>
> I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
> around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
> sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
> books on a shelf.
>
> I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
> of attaching shelves will work:
>
> I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
> board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
> I'm sure there is a term for this.
>
> A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> |
> ==========|
> V|
>
> Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
>
> Robert.
I believe the them is Torsion Box construction.
If you use a "door skin" sheet of thin plywood cutinf two pieces the
dimensions of your shelves and sandwich five (5) .75" x .75: strips of
pine between them using titeboond II or Elmer's WW Glue, you cn come
up with a light-weight and very strong shelf. You can edge-band the
front to match the casing, or replace the front strip of pine (or oak
or whatever's handy) with a wider piece cut to fit it under the top
piece of doorskin and slotted to "catch the bottom." This will add
more strength and a nice wide facade.
I used a similar approach to make a six-foot wide shelf 30" deep and
1.25" thick, mount on those heavy adjustable shelf brackets (HD)
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImage/7e7fa470-d9b7-4080-aa44-ef7ced77ac4e_400.jpg
and it suppots a TV/VCR, a collection of related "stuff" and serves as
a desk on one end. - could have used a 30" door but i wanted the "fun"
of building it. Been up for years w/o any issues.
The examples online use a more intricate approach with many more (and
thinner) "core" pieces. But you can get by nicely with this simpler
approach for a shelf.
"Torsion box From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to:
navigation, search A Torsion box consists of two skins applied to a
core material, usually a grid or framework of some kind. The torsion
box functions as a beam, but is considerably lighter than a solid beam
of the same size without losing much strength. Torsion boxes are used
in the construction of airframes, especially wings and vertical
stabilizers, in making wooden tables and doors, and for skis and
snowboards."
> I know almost nothing about woodworking.
> I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
> around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board
> and sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant
> and 5 books on a shelf.
> I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
> of attaching shelves will work:
> I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
> board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
> Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
I would recommend 3/4" birch plywood for the bookcases, but if you don't
know much about woodworking, I'm guessing you don't own a tablesaw and
maybe not even a circular saw? Ripping plywood to width by hand would be
a difficult and inaccurate job, though most home centers could cut the
plywood sheets to size for you. Also, with plywood you would need to
cover the edges with trim of some type, probably not a good starting
project.
So, my next recommendation would be to use 1x10 or 1x12 boards of
whatever wood species you find attractive and affordable. Around here, #2
pine boards are about as inexpensive as you can find and are strong and
widely available. When you shop for your boards, sight down the face and
edge of each board to make sure it is straight and not warped/cupped/etc.
You'll probably have to pick through many boards to find a few good ones.
As for the span, 3/4" plywood or solid 1X boards can easily span 30" or
more fully loaded with books without sagging.
Measure out the lengths you need, use a square to draw a straight line
across the board, and use a handsaw to carefully cut them to length.
Though most pro's would recommend cutting dado's to assemble the
bookcase, I've assembled many cabinets using regular butt joints. I just
apply a bead of wood glue like Tightbond, and use ordinary finish nails.
If appearance is less of a concern, 1-1/2" or 2" deck screws would make a
very strong joint.
Cut the sides to the full height of your cabinet, then cut the top/bottom
and any fixed shelves to fit between the sides. Glue and nail the fixed
shelves as you would the top/bottom.
If you want the interior shelves to be adjustable, you can
measure/mark/drill 1/4" holes and use "shelf pins" to support the shelf.
Just mark your drill bit with tape or something so you don't drill all
the way through the board. Drill the holes, install the pins, then
measure between them to determine what length the shelf board should be
cut to. Subtract 1/16" or so from the measurement so you have room to
tilt the board down into place. You can drill a series of holes now to
make adjustments easy in the future, or just drill the holes you need
now. You can always drill new holes in the future if your needs change. A
strip of pegboard makes a decent jig for spacing your holes.
You'll also need a back of some type to keep the bookshelf from racking
side to side. A crude, but workable, back would be 1/4" plywood cut to
the size of the bookcase, glued and screwed to the back. I've even used
inexpensive hardboard in my earliest projects and it worked fairly well.
Of course, you'll see the edges of the applied back, but unless the
shelves are along an open wall, most people won't see it anyway. Just
make sure the case is square before you nail on the back. The easiest way
to check this is to measure diagonally from the top corner to the
opposite bottom corner. Then repeat with the opposite diagonal
measurement. Adjust the case as needed so the two diagonal measurements
are equal and your case will be square.
Depending on your needs, you may also be able to build small "boxes" and
stack them up as you wish. This gives you lots of flexibility to change
things around if you need to. Stack them tall and narrow, or long and
wide. You could even set some back to back and put a top on for a crude
coffee table.
Have fun!
Anthony
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>
>I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
>around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
>sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
>books on a shelf.
>
>I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
>of attaching shelves will work:
>
>I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
>board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
>I'm sure there is a term for this.
>
>A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> |
>==========|
> V|
>
>Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
>
>Robert.
Should work. The 1x2s are called "cleats." Normally, bookcases are
made with adjustable shelves. For extra protection against sag, use
3/4" ply (or solid wood) for the shelves and put a 1.5" lip (1.5x
3/4") on the front and back secured with carpenters glue and finishing
nails or biscuits. A 1/4" thick ply back is enough to keep your case
from racking. Bookcases higher than 5 feet should be secured to the
wall for safety. Heavier books should be set on the bottom.
On Mar 1, 11:49=A0am, Robert the Bearded <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
> board where I will want a shelf. =A0Then the shelf will rest on these.
Consider using 1/2" plywood for the sides, and solid wood boards for
the
shelves. The plywood is tough, straight, free of knots, and won't
split like a long board might.
Remember that a 1x12 board is actually 0.75 x 11.5, and it's more
important
that the front edge be even with the sides than where the back edge
ends up.
Plain wood glue is cheaper and easier than epoxy, be careful to
scuff-sand the surfaces before applying the glue.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:47:43 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 1, 3:47 pm, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>>
>> >I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
>> >around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
>> >sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
>> >books on a shelf.
>>
>> >I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
>> >of attaching shelves will work:
>>
>> >I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
>> >board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
>> >I'm sure there is a term for this.
>>
>> >A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>>
>> > |
>> >==========|
>> > V|
>>
>> >Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
>>
>> >Robert.
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> You have received many good tips already, but I will add a
>> few thoughts:
>>
>> Someone suggested that you make sure things are square, and
>> that is certainly important, but I would add that you will
>> want to be sure that things stay square. To do that, you
>> might want to attach everything to a back board (probably
>> plywood) that you know is rectangular. It is easy for the
>> sort of shelving you want to build to "rack", that is, to
>> become a parallelogram, rather than the rectangle you want.
>>
>> Also, it was suggested that you will need clamps to do the
>> gluing. That would certainly work, but you might be better
>> off putting glue (one brand to consider is TiteBond) on the
>> surfaces you want to connect, and then drawing the joints
>> together with screws. With that approach you will have very
>> strong joints, and you can avoid the expense of the clamps.
>>
>> Have fun with your project,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>Thanks for all the answers and help.
>
>I want adequate strength in the glue joint, so I like the idea of
>using screws to hold the joint. I'm using pine; will I have to
>predrill the wood to do this?
>
>What I am planning is to use pine 1x12's for the sides, glue and screw
>the 1x2 supports on and then assemble the two sides with two 1x2s
>nailed and glued at the bottom with the bottom shelf glued onto both
>the sides and the 1x2s.
>Textart of the bottom x-section, bottom shelf glued on top of this:
>|=============|
>| |
>|=============|
>
>and then a similar thing at the top.
>
>I was planning on using 1x12s for the shelves too, but based on the
>sagulator link, might use something thinner with a beam.
>
>When you say that everything should be attached to the backboard, will
>nailing work?
>
>Thanks,
>Robert.
Hi again Robert,
Predrilling the pine is a very good idea, and will likely
save you some grief...
Also, regarding the "beam" idea for stiffening the shelf:
Consider the possibility of using the 1X12 with a 1X1 glued
beneath the front, and a 1X2 beneath the rear edge.
That would very significantly increase the stiffness of the
shelf, and if you did the glue job carefully, would provide
a nice visual effect on the front edge. The reason I suggest
the two different sizes is the decrease the amount of useful
shelf height you will lose to the stiffeners.
And one other thing: Someone asked what sort of finish you
intended to use. That is a very important issue because it
provides an easy opportunity to make your finished product
look great. Give it a bit of thought, and certainly continue
to post here is you have further questions.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:47:43 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 1, 3:47 pm, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>>
>> >I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
>> >around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
>> >sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
>> >books on a shelf.
>>
>> >I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
>> >of attaching shelves will work:
>>
>> >I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
>> >board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
>> >I'm sure there is a term for this.
>>
>> >A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>>
>> > |
>> >==========|
>> > V|
>>
>> >Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
>>
>> >Robert.
>>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> You have received many good tips already, but I will add a
>> few thoughts:
>>
>> Someone suggested that you make sure things are square, and
>> that is certainly important, but I would add that you will
>> want to be sure that things stay square. To do that, you
>> might want to attach everything to a back board (probably
>> plywood) that you know is rectangular. It is easy for the
>> sort of shelving you want to build to "rack", that is, to
>> become a parallelogram, rather than the rectangle you want.
>>
>> Also, it was suggested that you will need clamps to do the
>> gluing. That would certainly work, but you might be better
>> off putting glue (one brand to consider is TiteBond) on the
>> surfaces you want to connect, and then drawing the joints
>> together with screws. With that approach you will have very
>> strong joints, and you can avoid the expense of the clamps.
>>
>> Have fun with your project,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>Thanks for all the answers and help.
>
>I want adequate strength in the glue joint, so I like the idea of
>using screws to hold the joint. I'm using pine; will I have to
>predrill the wood to do this?
>
>What I am planning is to use pine 1x12's for the sides, glue and screw
>the 1x2 supports on and then assemble the two sides with two 1x2s
>nailed and glued at the bottom with the bottom shelf glued onto both
>the sides and the 1x2s.
>Textart of the bottom x-section, bottom shelf glued on top of this:
>|=============|
>| |
>|=============|
>
>and then a similar thing at the top.
>
>I was planning on using 1x12s for the shelves too, but based on the
>sagulator link, might use something thinner with a beam.
>
>When you say that everything should be attached to the backboard, will
>nailing work?
>
>Thanks,
>Robert.
The backboard is very important to prevent racking. It can be as thin
as 1/4". A nice improvement is putting a rabbet on the back sides to
accommodate the ply backboard--this will add strength and hide the ply
edges. Nailing is okay--gluing and nailing is better. Important:
Make sure the diagonals are equal (check w/ a tape measure) before
attaching the back. Crown molding on top and baseboard on the bottom
will dress up your bookcase.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
>board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
>I'm sure there is a term for this.
>
>A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> |
>==========|
> V|
>
>Will this work?
Probably. Indoors, wood glue would work just as well, and is easier
to use than epoxy. Countersunk screws would be better than nails.
Countersinking drill bits are cheap, easy to use, and available
everywhere.
> I'm planning on 24" spans.
That's where the rub will come in. Depending on what's going on the
shelf, you may need a support beam. Check here:
<http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm>
A support can be as simple as 1x2's glued to the bottom of the shelf.
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:49:44 -0800 (PST), Robert the Bearded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I know almost nothing about woodworking.
>
>I recently have decided that I need a few bookcases, I've looked
>around but everythink that I find new and cheap is particle board and
>sags. I love how they show pictures on the boxes of a plant and 5
>books on a shelf.
>
>I am considering building 2 bookcases,and am wondering if this method
>of attaching shelves will work:
>
>I am planning on using boards for the sides and epoxying a 1x2 on each
>board where I will want a shelf. Then the shelf will rest on these.
>I'm sure there is a term for this.
>
>A poor textart, "V" is the 1x2:
>
> |
>==========|
> V|
>
>Will this work? I'm planning on 24" spans.
>
>Robert.
Hi Robert,
You have received many good tips already, but I will add a
few thoughts:
Someone suggested that you make sure things are square, and
that is certainly important, but I would add that you will
want to be sure that things stay square. To do that, you
might want to attach everything to a back board (probably
plywood) that you know is rectangular. It is easy for the
sort of shelving you want to build to "rack", that is, to
become a parallelogram, rather than the rectangle you want.
Also, it was suggested that you will need clamps to do the
gluing. That would certainly work, but you might be better
off putting glue (one brand to consider is TiteBond) on the
surfaces you want to connect, and then drawing the joints
together with screws. With that approach you will have very
strong joints, and you can avoid the expense of the clamps.
Have fun with your project,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:22:27 GMT, Jones <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Robert,
>
>In addition to all the good advice you've gotten so far, I will add
>that if you plan to stain your project, you will want to be careful
>about getting glue all over the place. The glue prevents the stain from
>penetrating the wood, so anywhere you get stray glue drips or
>fingerprints will stand out like a sore thumb after you stain the wood
>(which I recommend for I think wood looks much nicer stained).
>
>After the glue dries, you can "carve" it off with a sharp chisel or
>sand it off (this gets difficult and time-consuming in corners).
>Alternately, you can use a wet rag to scrub off the glue while it is
>still wet, but I have had mixed results with this method -- sometimes
>it works, sometimes it makes the problem worse. If I use a wet rag, I
>would really try to scrub every bit of extra glue off quickly and then
>let everything dry 24 hrs, and just try to get rid of any remaining
>glue before you finish sanding.
>
>Sanding: You'll probably want to start with 80 grit (60 if it's really
>rough wood), then use 120 grit (100 grit if your first sanding was with
>60), then 150. You could also finish sand with 220 grit right before
>staining and finishing. It's important not to "skip" grit sizes here,
>because each approximate grit size is needed to remove scratches
>produced by the previous grit size.
>
>I would not try to skimp on the finishing details, or you will kick
>yourself later. A nice finish makes the entire project immensely more
>satisfying and pleasing to the eye.
>
>Good luck.
Howdy,
Or, the OP could save some glue-stain hassle by staining the
pieces before assembly.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."